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Brazilian leading daily calls for a review of Mercosur, which 'is not working'

Tuesday, November 26th 2013 - 19:35 UTC
Full article 29 comments

Brazil's influential daily O'Globo called for a drastic change in the country's approach to trade policy arguing that “without a review, Mercosur does not work” and reveals that the latest signals from Argentina are that it is reluctant to reach a free trade and cooperation agreement in the framework of Mercosur with the European Union. Read full article

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  • Frank

    for inodorous read malodorous

    Nov 26th, 2013 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    which 'is not working'

    Perhaps a new driver in the front seat,

    Instead of an Argentinian one,

    A change may well be good for trading..
    .

    Nov 26th, 2013 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Insipid!

    LOL. Argentina is almost single handedly destroying that which it claims to value so highly.

    The Pacific Alliance has shown how easy these trade groupings should be and now Mercosur is looking like a clunky dinosaur that can only look on in envy.

    Nov 26th, 2013 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    It is astonishing that one country is able to hoodwink and strangle the development an entire continent.

    Nov 26th, 2013 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ljb

    It shows how stupid the rest must be.

    Nov 26th, 2013 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Argentinians are brilliant in using laws against someone they obeys them. It works because they don't obey them and do whatever they want.
    Rgs are scumbags that can't be trusted.
    Most of the world has learned it so its about time the Brazilians caught on, they probably a little slow on the uptake.

    Nov 26th, 2013 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    RGENWEENER holding back the rest of SA surprising? Off the topic though isn't she looking nice after her months of plastic surgery, not a scar, not a hair out of place what a picture to behold. You know where sympathy is in the dictionary is don't you? between shit and syphilis.

    Nov 26th, 2013 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Truth PaTroll

    Cooperation with the Europeans? No wonder Argentina is holding back, who wants to cooperate with unrepentant mass murderers across at least 4 continents, including mass murdering each other in their own continent, over the last half a millenia.

    The lot of them including adjacent islands.

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 04:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Blah blah blah broken record from someone who is a benefactor from said European actions and racially a European to boot.

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    Did I not tell you guys?

    Without Argentina will not be Mercosur/EU trade agreement.

    Despite O'Globo article...

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 05:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Truth PaTroll

    I'm about as european as chocolate, potatoes, or tomatoes.

    Next.

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 06:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Biguggy

    @ 8
    The ethnic cleaning of Patagonia does not count as RGland did that?
    Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @8 Unless you are “demonstrably” indigenous, you too are european. And took your mass murdering ways with you. If you are “indigenous”, you should keep your reservations for, mostly, the Spanish. The bunch that got a pope to say that half of “the New World” belonged to them. Isn't that the pope of the “church” you still bow to? One of the richest organisations in the world. Built on the “contributions” of the poor. And capable of relieving world poverty in minutes. The RC Church is estimated to be worth at least US$15 billion. But since “the church” doesn't pay taxes or have auditable accounts, who knows!
    @10 Excellent! I keep writing to my MP and saying that we don't need any latam crap. Pointing out all the corruption.
    @11 Pointless, unnecessary and squishable.

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Mercosur needs the “Coup de grace” along with the “presidents” that are supposed to know what they are doing but don’t.

    At least Uruguay and Brazil can get on with things while the other bunch give each other a brotherly hug as they go down the crapper.

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • andy65

    @ The Truth PaTroll ,says “I'm about as european as chocolate, potatoes, or tomatoes” surely your granny screwed a Spanish pirate or was it a Nazi ???? Argentina is a land of immigrants mate now come clean what is it Pirate or Nazi?????????

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    “I'm about as european as chocolate, potatoes, or tomatoes”

    And about as intelligent sometimes.

    But continue.

    You speak a European language as your native tongue.
    You live in a European derived society.
    Supposedly attend a university that is based on and follows a European model.
    You are genetically identical to people living in Europe.
    Your legal system is based on a European system.
    Your political system is based on a European system.
    You use units of measurement invented by Europeans.
    You live in a city founded by a European (Pedro del Castillo).
    You live in a city named after a European (Don García Hurtado de Mendoza).
    You live in a country created by Europeans, named by Europeans and its very name is derived from a European language.
    The main religion of your country is European and based in Europe.
    For all the chocolate, potatoes and tomatoes you eat, you eat European food such as olives, pasta and bread and drink wine. God don't get me started on your beef industry and therefore your dairy industry.

    Shall we start on the everyday things you used that were invented by Europeans?

    You are so hilariously European that it keeps everyone entertained on here.

    As I said, you are a benefactor of European conquest and racially European to boot.

    So hate away because we all know how much that knowledge worms it way under your skin.

    As for Dany, you may be right that there will be no EU-Mercosur trade agreement. So you will probably see a Paraguayan-EU trade agreement, a Uruguayan-EU trade agreement and a Brazilian-EU trade agreement.

    Venezuela and Argentina can stew in their own juices for all the EU really gives a crap.

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay should withdraw from Mercosur and negotiate as a block with the EU, the Pacific Alliance and anyone else that is to their advantage. This would really make our mendacious Mendicina isolationist happy, though once he has got his way he will have nothing to whine about?

    Nov 27th, 2013 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    KEEP DREAMING O' GLOBO, IT'S FREE.
    Every time i read this kind of article, it makes feel happy the fact that argentina is so far away of singing any free trade agreement.
    I respect the sovereing decisions of all countries, but what o' globe and some other people who are still pro free trade must understand, is that for a country like argentina., which is going through a reindustrialization process, nothing would be worst than a free trade agreement, because we already suffered the consecuences of that kind of policies since 1976 untill 2001, which destroyed our national productions, and only benefited the oligopolic corporations that we have in the country, but millions of our compatriots lost their jobs.
    Unfortunatelly, the consecuences of those free trade agreements are being suffered now by our brothers in colombia and mexico, although hegemonical corporate press from most latin countries inform so little about the terrible protests in those countries, in fact, in the case of argentina i can only see them on chanel 7 (our public television).
    On the other hand, it's not true that mercosur is not working, that is just the tipicall mischievous lecture of powerful bussiness men who are pro free trade agreements, we have always had problems with our neighbours, and we will always have them, in fact, all countries have problems with their neighbours, but it doesn't mean that they can't be solved in negotiations, as it has always happened.
    It's obvious that not all presidents in suth america think the same, if some of them prefer to sign that kind of agreement, it doesn't mean that mercosur must be dismantled, it will be necesary to search other members.

    Nov 28th, 2013 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    axel

    You keep talking about how bad everything is particularly to Argentina. This is a reflection on Argentina not on the forces you talk about.

    Believe me when I say that Colombians don't see Argentineans as brothers, perhaps prissy cousins. And if you had been to Colombia and seen the massive growth going on there and the reduction in poverty and jobs being created then you wouldn't be talking your usual crap.

    Argentina is free to do whatever it wishes. If that is snubbing its nose at the world and “reindustrialising” then so be it.

    The world moves on. The EU wants a trade deal but then it has been signing dozens and dozens since these negotiations started.

    The Pacific Alliance has done more in a year than Mercosur has done in a decade. If that suits the Mercosur members then fine. But neighbouring countries look at Mercosur and ALBA and realised they needed a working model that gave real returns and so they created one.

    It always makes me laugh that Australia and Argentina were once equal in so many respects but we are no so much more developed and so much richer than Argentina by following the same things that supposedly destroys Argentina.

    Again, that is a reflection on Argentinean incompetence as much as Australian ingenuity.

    Good luck with the path your country has chosen. Considering the number of Argentineans I meet that now live in Australia, it seems many prefer good governance and good economic management to the opposite on offer in Argentina.

    Brazil will get its FTA with the EU and Argentina probably won't. There is only one loser in that scenario.

    Nov 29th, 2013 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    ANGLOTINO.
    As i said before, not all presidents in south america think the same, beside all sovereign decisions are respectable, but it's very irresponsable to make the too partial analysis that you do. In the case of argentina, we already had policies similar to free trade agreements, and what we got was poverty, high levels of social inequality, unemployment and destruction of industrial sectors.
    Your view, is not more than the tipicall too partial analysis, characteristic of developed nations, which aims to stigmatise leftist governments, because in some way you don't tolerate the fact that despite some of the serious problems that we still have, we are nobody's backyard anymore.
    I know perfecty that argentina and australia were once equal, however you omit or ognore about all the coup d'etats that we had since 1930 untill 1983, which many of them destroyed the pathes of industrialization that a few good presidents had created, beside, you also about omit about the dramatic consecuences of neoliberal policies applied in the country since 1976 untill 2001. If you prefer believing something different, it's your problem, your ignorance doesn't change our dramatic history.
    In the case of our brothers from colombia, i have no doubt that in some sectors of colombian society, free trade economy is benefiting them so much, but it's also true that an agreement like that one, is prejudicing seriously other sectors of the society. I have met a lot colombian people along my life who live in argentina, in fact, we have many colombian brothers who study at our public universities. As i said before, i am very respectfull of all sovererign decisions, but i don't want that kind of policies never again in my country.

    Nov 29th, 2013 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Axel

    Why is it ONLY Argentina that has these problems?

    Why can other countries implement these FTAs and open their economies and NOT have the same tragic results that Argentina had?

    Why?

    I am not saying that Argentina has not had problems but you can't pin the problems on the system they were trying to implement if others can implement the same system and not have anywhere near the problems that Argentina experienced. It must be something to do with their implementation.

    The fact that you talked about all the coups that Argentina has had goes some way to explaining it. It is Argentina's form of government. It is the slightly fascist (only slightly mind you) and extremely populist streak that has been running through you body politic since Peron in the 1940s.

    It is funny that Argentina keeps deriding the economic system as the cause of their economic problems but they never look at the political system that is implementing it. Privatisation is a good example. When privatisation goes wrong in Argentina it is not the fault of the company that now owns the asset, but the laws they operate under and so problems with privatisation are the fault of the governments that privatise and then shape the laws that pertain to a privatised entity.

    Argentina is free to follow whatever system it wants. It really doesn't affect any other country except for those that exist within Mercosur and they are are there of their own free will.

    But don't keep blaming the system when other countries cannot produce the same results as Argentina. Sometimes what is needed to fix a fault or negative aspect of an economic system is not to try and change the economic system, but to change the legalistic or political system that it operates under or within.

    If free trade destroys an industry then the government should help to retrain and redeploy those affected. Putting up barriers doesn't fix the problem, it only shields it from reality.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    @21 the reason people don't question the political system in Argentina is because the vast mayority think Peron's government was an utopia (and for a lot of people, it seemed like one), hence all of our problems are blamed on politicians and the current government.
    I don't think free trade can work in our society, there are too many speculators and cheaters for it to work.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    ANGLOTINO.
    If you were more responsable with your opinions, you would realise that not all economic programms can work in all societies. It actually depends on many factors, if what we want is an industrial nation, only an idiot can sign a free trade agrement. Beside, i don't believe in economic liberalism, because all countries implement different protectionist measures, not just a periferic nation like argentina.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    axel

    You seem to think that Argentina is some special case with variables that don't exist or can't exist anywhere else in the world. And you are wrong.

    There are no identical economic systems in operation in the world. So there are over 200 different economic models in operation and Argentina thinks it is that different and special that it cannot cherry pick the rights winners from all of these.

    It doesn't matter how you twist it, Argentina has declined absolutely against any so many similar countries: Australia, Chile, US. While relative decline is a common occurrence in the world, absolute decline like Argentina's is rare enough to be noteworthy.

    If your country is not willing to do some deep soul searching on why it has endured almost a century of economic decline then it is not going to stop. Again this only affects Argentineans. There is a reason that a country like mine attracts 250,000 million net migration PER YEAR and that Argentina has a net outward migration.

    If Argentina doesn't want to sign FTAs then that is fine, it only really affects Argentina. The world is moving on without Argentina and really doesn't notice the difference. Argentina isn't even one of the world's 25 largest economies and is on its way out of the top 30. For a country of 41 million people blessed with amazing natural resources, this is the opposite direction it should be heading.

    Argentina is so busy creating self inflicted wounds that externally inflicted are magnified.

    We'll see where Argentina is in relation to Chile; Peru and Colombia, countries with extremely open economies that sign multiple FTAs, in five years time. I guess I would be correct that you believe that Argentina will be in a stronger and better position than they will be.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    ANGLOTINO.
    Infortunatelly this is evident that you can avoid making your tripicall too partial lectures.
    I respect sovereign decisons of all countries, but only irresponsable people like you can compare the situations of different countries, in such an ignorant way as you often do.
    I am not a big fun in absolut of the chilean model, i respect it, but it's not what i want for argentina. While it is true that since 1990, despite the neoliberal model which has been implemented in chile since pinochet's dictatorship, chile has always been a predictable country, in fact it never had any of the terrible economic crisis that argentina suffered in different historical contexts, beside, it's poverty could be reduced in signifficant numbers. However, it's the unequalest country from latinamerica, and it's considered one of the worst of the world in relation to this issue, beside, something so basic like public education, and publich health don't exist. In our country, we have a lot of chilean students who study at our public universities. As you can see, it's a model which benefits rich people much more than middle class.
    In the cases of peru and colombia, which are often admired by neoliberal economists, they usually omit to mention that those countries are much more unequal than argentina in all social terms, in fact, we have also a lot of colombian and peruvian people who study at our public universities, and many other people who just live here since a long tine ago.
    Respecting arg,. despite it's structural problems, since 10 years ago it implements an economic model which despite it's falencies, it could reindustrialize the country, and recovered many of the recources that it had lost after 26 years of neoliberalism, beside, it created millions of jobs.
    On the other hand, arg. is permanent member of the g.20, and it's the 23rd largest economy of the world, so, search better information, instead of making your tipicall irresponsable analysis.

    Dec 02nd, 2013 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    @25 If Argentina is the 23rd largest economy why is it in the G20?

    Dec 03rd, 2013 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @redp0ll

    can you list the 22 economies bigger than the Argentina's economy?

    Dec 04th, 2013 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Frank

    here you go Dany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

    yes I know its wiki but all the sources seem to agree.

    Dec 04th, 2013 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Frank

    But that figures are not accurate because Argentina Nominal GDP is over 500bn and not 448bn as there says.

    And BTW in your list you have the EU doubled counted there by country and as a hold. That is like counting Mercosur and then each member not very wise I guess.

    But PPP gives a more accurate measurement than Nominal, don't you think so?

    So for example Norway not even represents a 1/3 of Argentina GDP while Nominal is a little bit less.

    A given economy is bigger, stronger than other by the output capacity and not for the value of it currency.

    What do you think?

    Dec 04th, 2013 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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