MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Spain not sure about success in legal challenge of Gibraltar waters
Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel García-Margallo has expressed confidence that Madrid would win a legal case over jurisdiction of Gibraltar’s isthmus, though he was less certain about success in any challenge over the waters. He said the isthmus was not ceded to Britain under the Treaty of Utrecht and “illegally” occupied, but that Spain had yet to decide whether to “legally reclaim it or not”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIndeed, the grown up method is to legally challenge the UK, so crack on. I wonder if the Moroccan government is taking note.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“all the mafias in the world have passed through Gibraltar”.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...indeed - so that they could take control of the government of Spain.
he says he supports democracy,
Dec 13th, 2013 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yet yesterday soon after talks with Catalonia, the Spanish government said, their will be NO referendum next year on independence,
Spain is falling apart, yet they still put their deluded imperial ambitions over Gibraltar first,
seems they will learn the hard way,
just like CFK,
“García-Margallo also said Spain was “winning” in the dispute over Gibraltar”
Dec 13th, 2013 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's been months but I have yet to find a person that can list a SINGLE thing that Spain has WON.
If long border delays is WINNING, then I would say that LAX is the world champion in my experience.
Its a pretty widely known fact that Spain will not ever want to take the Gibraltar question to court, its un-winable for them, if they had a case; one might think like the Argentines, they might well have taken it to court at some point in the past 200 to 300 years, I mean how long does it take to make that decision, c'mon your fooling no one here, winning haha, backwards Spanish nations always try to give some bravado & mis- placed nationalistic pride to the folks back home by claiming some fictitious win, in reality it means jack & the de-facto control over both territories remains the same, ultimately nothing has changed, just the strong will of the British people, has got stronger.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*5 wow!! did you read all this in a fortune cookie?????!!!!
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quixotic in the extreme, laughable.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not in the real world, not even close.
Look forward to their explanation of how they lost the isthmus, in the first place.
Not to mention the discussions with those grown up Catalans, about sovereignty.
They are the only sovereignty discussions he is going to be having.
LMFAO.
The isthmus was lost when spain lent it to the Brits with their sick soldiers who were dying of some sort of disesase.But after the soldiers were cured the Brits kept ithe isthmus.Serves the Spanish right for trusting the Brits in the first place.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8
Dec 13th, 2013 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another Spanish myth. The isthmus is within the line of the original forts, boundary of the ceded area.
Dear Garcia-Margallo,
Dec 13th, 2013 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm must remind you that the Gibraltar isthmus was well and truly lost in 1975 after Spain signed the Helsinki Accord. After signing the accord Spain acknowledged,
part III Inviolability of frontiers
part VI Non-intervention in internal affairs and
part VIII Equal rights and self-determination of peoples
Spain, Ireland and other states made objections and the final act stated, 'frontiers in Europe should be stable but change by peaceful internal means and by agreement.'
@8 Well, semi-accurate for a change. The isthmus was originally a “neutral” zone. The southern part is now British by virtue of “prescription”. And Spain justifies occupation of the northern part, how? Here's a good move. Spain and UK submit to ICJ. Depending on the “judgement”, Gibraltar determines its course of action. Not being a member of the UN, Gibraltar is under no obligation to accept UN determinations or ICJ judgements.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*5 wow!! did you read all this in a fortune cookie?????!!!!
Dec 13th, 2013 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no
did you lol.
@6, and that's your contribution to the debate is it?!
Dec 13th, 2013 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing will change in either Falklands or Gibraltar any time soon, it's really that simple. All this is just political rhetoric BS from nations with massive social and economical problems & 3rd rate governments that have as much political pull as a mouse towing a broken down lorry!
nice one ..lol.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The more Margallo and Rajoy squeal, the more they will lose. Spain is now on the verge of literally falling apart, all because they tried to distract their own citizens from the truth.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The more they push Gibraltar, the more help that the UK will give the Catalans, the Basques and the Canary Islands to separate from Spain.
Madrid will be left governing the province of Castile and León and not much more.
Even Andalusia might be tempted to join with Gibraltar and participate in their economic success story.
Margallo is in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks he can win the argument over the Isthmus, because he is relying on the Treaty of Utrecht again whilst ignoring what happened afterwards.
Everywhere up to the present border (and 1 metre beyond the current fence) was British territory. Because Spain broke the Treaty of Utrecht by militarily attempting to retake the Rock, a neutral zone was formed corresponding to the 'cannon shot' rule developed by the Dutch jurist Cornelius van Bynkershoek.
Besides, as Brit Bob pointed out, when Spain signed the Helsinki Accord in 1975, they gave up the right to challenge the Gibraltar border.
It seems extremely clear to me that Margallo received compelling legal opinions on the legality of Gibraltar's right to the Territorial Waters. That's why he's given up trying to claim that Gibraltar has none. He knows that this is a lost cause.
Every time that the Guardia Civil invaded BGTW, it only made it worse for Spain. Even if Spain was foolish enough to take the dispute to the ICJ, the British Government would point out that Spain repeatedly and aggressively trespassed in British waters.
Courts do not like aggressors, so I expect that not only would the court rule in Gibraltar's favour, but award massive costs (and hopefully damages) against Spain.
@15 nigelpwsmith
Dec 14th, 2013 - 02:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Correct, they lost the isthmus when they broke the treaty of Utrecht, tried to re-take the rock, and were pushed back further. Signing subsequent treaties to that effect.
Never going to see the inside of a court room though, this is all just “hot air” on Margallo/Spain’s part.
Pissing in the wind, springs to mind.
Soon to be “gone with the wind” if they don’t wise up.
Sounds like this facist Spaniard wants a War.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 04:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps Tuco (the Ugly) put it best when he said, “When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.”
Dec 14th, 2013 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Saying he can get what he wants in court but then not going to court makes garcia-margallos look foolish and cowardly. Regardless of whether the British were wise to go to the EU over the border delays, at least they had the sack to go.
18 Redrow
Dec 14th, 2013 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Got all the DVD's over here running on my region 2 Panasonic!
Lee Van Cleef as the Southern Colonel is my favourite.
“García-Margallo also said Spain was “winning” in the dispute over Gibraltar,”
Dec 14th, 2013 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well if delaying traffic is a great victory, Gollum 2 (copyright @ Chris R) fine, but when you have the economic powerhouse of your country asking for a referendum, and that if your claim on Gibraltar opens up your enclaves in Morocco being challenged by Morocco, and that potentially if one region asks for a referendum, others may follow; you might find delaying traffic does not seem such a good idea after all.
Margallo cannot deny the Catalans, because the alternative is that he sends the tanks in and the rest of the EU would not stand for that.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain will split up. It is inevitable now. Just as much as Margallo claiming that they had a case over Gibraltar waters and then having to back-track when the legal advice said he didn't.
As I've said before, Madrid will be left with very little territory and what they will have, won't be economically viable.
I've also heard that the Galicians want out too.
Also, Andalusia will be a lot larger than most think. They'll retain their identity, but they'll probably want to share in Gibraltar's success and capitalise on the continued tourist trade.
Margallo and Rajoy like to threaten a fascist response by sending in the troops, but the EU cannot afford to let this happen. Catalonia generates an enormous amount of EU taxes and any 'Occupation' would be detrimental. Besides, the Catalans have taken enough shit from Madrid.
Going after Gibraltar as a diversionary tactic could be said to be the worst political decision Spain has ever made.
Catalan has a long and honourable history as a country, they were in an alliance to resist Napoleon taking over the continent and helped thwart French Imperial ambitions.
Dec 15th, 2013 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Spanish attempt to thwart this by implanting a population of Spaniards in the region is illegal. Anyone living in the region that doesn't have a working knowledge of Catalan should be prevented from voting in the referendum.
The ALHD ADELAIDE has just left Spain on its two month voyage to Australia.The LHD is the sister ship of LHD Canberra.Both ships have been built in Spain for The RAN included in the package is the construction of twelve LLM1E landing crafts which will be handed over by Navantia to The Australian government next year.
Dec 16th, 2013 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pleasant trip!!
@ 23 Dickhead aussie raincloud
Dec 16th, 2013 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Officers of the RAN will of course ensure that no vestige of a trace of Spanish Cowardice has been welded into the hulls.
Have to be careful over that!
Ha, ha, ha.
@23 Ouch, the Spaniards make ships for the Aussies?! I'd not tell anyone, I'd be to embarrassed tbh, besides many Spanish built ships are based on US designs and Australia still use a lot of British equipment, the ALHD ADELAIDE by the way is only partially built in Spain, the rest will be completed by none other than BAE systems Australia; you know that little British company.. anyway who gives a toss, the Type T45 destroyer is regarded as the best destroyer on the ocean, and we have 6 of them.
Dec 16th, 2013 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23
Dec 17th, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Give the ship its due, unlike an Argentine Ship, it will probably reach Australia without sinking.
@23 sunshine
Dec 18th, 2013 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”NAVANTIA and the Port Authority at Vigo inform that today, at the Vigo inlet, the ALHD “Adelaide” was loaded onto the “Blue Marlin” vessel of the Dutch company Dockwise. .......... As it happened with the ALHD “Canberra”,
it will be transported to BAE System Australia’s shipyards at Williamstown, where it will be completed and delivered to the Commonwealth of Australia.
http://www.sepi.es/default.aspx?cmd=0004&IdContent=25494&idLanguage=_EN&lang=
@ 27 Leiard
Dec 18th, 2013 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sensible people the real aussies wanting to check it floats in THEIR dockyard before wasting any more time and money on the hull.
Ha, ha, ha.
@28 lmao, and yet no response from the supremo aussie...
Dec 19th, 2013 - 02:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 27 & 28
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How presumptuous of me to imagine the ship was going to sail itself instead of bumming a lift.
So this is where the Argentine navy is going wrong-it should hitch a ride with Dockwise.
This is too funny for words.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!