MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina threatens to nationalize power companies because of the blackouts
Argentina on Thursday threatened to nationalize utility companies Edenor and Edesur after power outages left large areas of the capital Buenos Aires and surrounding suburbs in the dark, just ahead of the austral summer. “If they are not willing to give people the service they deserve, we will be willing to take over that service,” said cabinet chief Jorge Capitanich. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesLOL
Dec 20th, 2013 - 06:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0So let me get this straight - Buenos Aires suffers large power outage, likely as a result of matters out of the control of, or unforeseen by the Power companies, and the Argentine governments response is to threaten to nationalise the power companies, rather than investigate the course of the power outrages and look at helping the power company to come up with measures to prevent it happening again.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 06:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like the Argentine government think they can do a better job at keeping the lights on then the power company can. Only problem is that the Argentine government isn't even able to keep the lights on in their own bloody heads let alone anywhere else.
@2. didn't you read the article? they are not “matters out of control” or “unforeseen”. it happens every year when temperatures in buenos aires rise above 35 degrees thus generating a high demand for electricity.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0so the cause of the outages is well established: too much demand for a limited supply of energy.
Here's a thought, why not left them fix prices they desire, and make the companies profitable. You'd be surprised at the results.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0I confident that CFK and Gollum can run things better, just like Aerolingus and YPF, smashing job they are doing atm.
Good grief - these people really are idiots. Nationalisation will mean more blackouts not less.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nationalization is the obvious solution . You can then overstaff the energy companies , but keep prices low , divert any investment funds meant for improvements , give preferential service to the villas and loose billions of dollars a year .
Dec 20th, 2013 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina , where everyday is Christmas ( or some other public holiday )
@2 - Yes i did read the article actually, though clearly you did not.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do not see anywhere in the article where it says the matters were not unforeseen or where it happens every year when temperatures are above 35 degrees resulting in higher demand for electricity.
Quite frankly your statement is ridiculous. As energy demand declines during summer months and when there is higher temperatures, it is winter when the demand is at its highest, such as for heating homes etc.
In fact, the only foreseen possible cause for this is down to the government imposed energy prices that have remained largely unchanged since 2001-02 despite increased inflation which has hurt the energy sector (which is stated in the article if your bothered to read it). And i agree with that, as imposed prices mean less profit, less profit means less money to invest in maintenance of infrastructure and repairs.
So your post was completely ridiculous and made no logical sense whatsoever, and just goes to show how stupid you are!
So there really is a land of Oz,where all is illusion and problems are cured by a wave of a (nationalization) wand .
Dec 20th, 2013 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0However the question is, C.F.K. is Dorothy or the Wicked Witch?
P.S.
How will they pay?
Will they pay?
Do they really want to piss off the Italians as well?
Teaboy
Dec 20th, 2013 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now you are an Argentina expert with a degree from Mercopress...
In your logic, power shortages occur because the demand drops during the summer months.
I won't even try...
@6 Then we should encourage the argie government to nationalise. Then argies could usefully watch the declarations of the “personal wealth” of their leaders. Always assuming that such declarations have any basis in fact. Perhaps unemployed argies could set up groups to watch various locations. High power binoculars, cameras with long-range lenses. Could they manage blockades in order to check the contents of vehicles? Maybe identify where helicopters fly to and from?
Dec 20th, 2013 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ahhhh....Argievenecuba. Here we go again.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Parts of Arizonia, New Mexico, Nevada and even Texas reach 0ver 105 regularly. They do not have blackouts for days and weeks for the masses as they do in Argentina.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are crazy if they think nationalizing fixes everything. Like with YPF, they will go out begging for money to fix and upgrade the infrastructure. If they cannot make a profit, how the hell are they expected to re-invest in the transmission of energy?
Fucking morons in la casa rosada
Poppy
Dec 20th, 2013 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina doesn't kill children for oil either...
We lost our power here for a couple of hours today. Also due to a heatwave ( 42C, 43.5, and down to 38 today ). Any residue of smugness rapidly left me.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3
Dec 20th, 2013 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Troneas-clearly having power blackouts is all part of the Argentine's strategy in persuading the Falkland Islands to join them, taking into account 'their interest's.
CFK-UN: We will respect the interests of the inhabitants of the Falklands, by promising them power blackouts and rioting in Stanley if we get the sovereignty gig.
UN: We weren't aware they have power blackouts now or wanted any riots?
CFK: OK, what if we replace the FIG with INDEC? Or guarantee their security with ships that sink? Or with 30 year old aircraft? And pay them the same wages as Argentines?
UN: Why don't you ask the Islanders?
CFK: Why should we ask the people who were born there? What would Uncle Adolf have said?
@13 Stevie
Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes they do, they even kill them before they are born.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyQdHMQQqMI
they are doing it right this very minute infact.
@9 Stevie your clearly showing your inability to read properly. Where did i say power shortages occur due to decreased demand during summer when threes high temperatures? I didn't, i said in the winter there is “higher demand in the winter”, which is when power shortages are more likely to occur.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was that idiot mate of yours who posted in @3 that said these blackouts were not unforeseen and “it happens every year when temperatures in buenos aires rise above 35 degrees thus generating a high demand for electricity”.
Now how do higher temperatures mean there will be a higher demand on electricity supply, when less people are heating there homes, the days are longer so lights are not on as long on a night and less people are in there homes, as they are spending more time outside in the sun.
Capitanich is to CFK what Lopez Rega was to Isabelita. And ultimately , that was very scary. CFK seems willing to let him run everything while she recovers from the nervous exhaustion/ mini stroke she suffered.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The model, however well intentioned, is simply not working. One cannot blame the “corporations” as did Capt when they simply reflect market reality - an artificial market which disincentivizes investment and produces undesirable results in the energy area as does the fiscal policy produces in the financial area. Witness the exploding black market for foreign currency. The USD is ready to pop up to 12 in a month.
Soy kills children... Sure Rimmer, that's why you lot attack Iraq throwing soy at them...
Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do it Capitanich, please nationalise the power companies.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Rimmer
You make the mistake of actually thinking Stevie cares about children dying. He positively supports high infant mortality rates.
Is that the reason why you are so strongly against Monsanto, Condorito?
Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, You're like a broken record. You have one reply for every post.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And a lie at that
What a moron.
If I'm a broken record, you lot share a gramophone...
Dec 20th, 2013 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21
Dec 20th, 2013 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you against Monsanto if the soy industry is not causing any health problems?
Turn the lights back on, or we will intervene to mismanage it and cause irreparable damage!
Dec 20th, 2013 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess the idiots in charge don't realize keeping the electric companies on the edge of bankruptcy and FORBIDDING them to import their needed equipment is the reason they've not been able to keep the grid up.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh please I want this to last a couple weeks
Oh please
BTW Retiro AT THE START OF VACATIONS was out of power. Bahahaaha
yanqui
Dec 20th, 2013 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell me, what kind of equipment would that be?
They won't take over the power companies.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They know they can't do better and then the power outages would just make them look like the bad guys. That isn't good propaganda.
This is just bluster.
I think the major item they were complaining about are distribution lines but take a look at teh SEC filings they paint a pretty bleak picture of the state of the business in that horrible place.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is funny, really funny, is that they have to keep diesel generators running all over BA, it hot, sticky, the fumes will hang in the air, people will get sick AND on top of that they have to IMPORT the Diesel!! THAT THEY CAN”T AFFORD.
It gets better and better
So yanqui, what kind of equipment are they forbidden to import, you say? Diesel?
Dec 20th, 2013 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or mayhap your distribution lines generates electricity??
Don't get tripped up in semantics. I said distribution lines were the main complaint but just about everything they need comes from the USA and they can't get it imported NOR can they exchange pesos to purchase said items.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know this don't be obtuse.
When are you back on the rig turning wrenches, you're tedious and boring?
Let me quote you:
Dec 20th, 2013 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“FORBIDDING them to import their needed equipment is the reason they've not been able to keep the grid up.”
So I ask you, what equipment would that be, you little charlatan??
Re-read 31 again and again until it sinks in that thick head.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear, time for the Argentinians to start stocking up on candles. What's the government's next money-grubbing plan going to be - nationalise the oxygen and charge people to breathe?
Dec 20th, 2013 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie : A report by Amnesty about violence against aboriginal people in Argentina ... Including women & children !!!
Dec 20th, 2013 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Shameless colonialist europeans .......
http://www.amnesty.org/es/news/pueblos-indigenas-argentina-forasteros-nuestro-propio-pais-2013-08-09
Capitanich: “Just as we did with Aerolineas Argentinas ... and YPF”
Dec 20th, 2013 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great successes:
one huge deficit “Aerolineas Argentinas CEO Mariano Recalde admits to annual losses of 250 million dollars”
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/09/13/aerolineas-argentinas-admits-to-annual-losses-of-250-million-dollars
and one
“Energy deficit is Argentina has become dramatic, admits YPF CEO Galuccio ... Argentina oil and gas output continues to fall”
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/09/13/aerolineas-argentinas-admits-to-annual-losses-of-250-million-dollars
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/09/13/aerolineas-argentinas-admits-to-annual-losses-of-250-million-dollars
People why even argue with the idiot that is stevie, you know what his reply will be just ignore
Dec 20th, 2013 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 017 Teaboy2
Dec 20th, 2013 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hate to support Stevie here but the last sentence of the article says:
“Blackouts are common in Buenos Aires in summer months when electrical demand spikes with temperatures, often drawing residents into the streets for protests”
...I assume due to the enormous electricity consumption of aircon units. Heating would be supplied more by other fuels such as gas.
yanqui
Dec 20th, 2013 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what are those “said items” of yours that Argentina forbids to import, you little charlatan?
Why nationalise them, if you think you can do the job better compete with them. Use Argentinas limitless wealth and expertise to build hydropower dams, new oil rigs, nuclear reactors and sell it to the people undercutting the capitalists.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All you need is to allocate the wealth and expertise.
Or do as yanqui say and remove import restrictions on hydropower dams, nuclear power plants and eolic farms (??????)...
Dec 20th, 2013 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Charlatan.
@ 17 Teaboy2
Dec 20th, 2013 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The real problem when temperatures are high is that everybody switches on AC (which consumes the maximum local load of 2.2 Kw from the distribution box) or if they can’t afford that, they run a flock of fans. I know that in the UK even in the height of summer it never gets to 35°C but that is what we have here, now, and it’s not even the hottest period yet. I run two maximum AC and just about keep the temps down to 28°C overnight. Uruguay has the highest cost electricity in SA.
In the winter, here in Uruguay and away from MVD, they have to burn wood for heating. Electricity is used mainly for lighting, fridges and the TV. I have four bottled gas heaters for heating and then have to run two dehumidifiers to get the combustion water out of the air. But I can afford that, not many others can.
In Argentina the grid is so inadequate for the demand that I am surprised that there are so few system fires. I suspect that the electricity “engineers” aka fitters, go round and disconnect the weak areas to keep the better areas running. If they don’t do that they risk total electrical failure and then you are talking a long time to repair the system. It’s all the fault of the government not allowing the companies to charge a reasonable amount to make a profit and still invest in the business.
LatAms in general and Stevie, DanyBerger (especially this stupid version we have now), etc. think a business profit belongs to “the people”. Stupid business laws abound and hamstring owners far more than in the UK. Can you wonder at the results?
THERE IS NOT ANY OTHER ALTERNATIVE.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think this time it's necesary to use this phrase, which thatcher used to express, in order to justify her reactionary policies of privatizations and hard cuts. But in this opportunity, my purpose is to explain the reasons why our government should nationalize the area of distribution of energy.
In the last ten years, national government inverted millions of pesos to build necesary public works, with the purpose of generating more energy, in fact, it incorporated 8.500 mg.
However, the aerea of distribution is still in hands of private companies which don't do enough inverstments, and the government just fines them. This is actualy one of the remoras that we still have since the times of neoliberalism, when most statal enterprices were sold to private companies.
Electric companies often complain about the subsided amounts that we pay in buenos aires, they manifest that it's necesary to eliminate subsides for electric services, otherwise, they won't have enough money in order to make the necesary inverstments.
However, in provinces like cordoba or santa fe, where electric amounts that people pay are much higher than in buenos aires, they are also suffering of long blackouts.
Beside, in the decade of the 90's, when we paid amounts in dollar quotation, there were also hard blackouts in summer. So, the argument of the elimination of subsides is just a corporate caprice.
For all these reasons, i think that the government should nationalize NOW the area of distribution of electric service, we all know that private companies won't never do the necesary inverstments.
C. f. k's govt. has shown in different opportunities that it's not a coward govt. submitted to the caprices of powerful corporations, however it has serious falencies in some sectors, and it sometimes takes a lot of time to take an important decision. In my opinion, it can't keep on waiting, because there are many people who are suffering for these long blackouts.
@ 43 axel arg
Dec 20th, 2013 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having just read your missive, I think everything you have posted makes sense!
I think TMBOA SHOULD rob the electric companies and have some argie cunt run them: they would show just how not to do it. You know, how the big success that is not Aerolineas Floppus aka the La Camping it up coke ring based at the airport.
I can see it now: after two FURTHER months of no power and water, the “citizens” will be stringing TMBOA up by her neck until she is dead. What a result!
Go for it, you know it makes no sense at all so it fits the bill for everything else TMBOA has done to the country.
I know you are a bit backward when it comes to English, so I will give you a little clue: I’m taking the piss!
TMBOA is so stupid she couldn’t get herself shagged in a brothel.
@42 ChrisR - You may have a good point there, as i never considered Electric Fans, though i assume with the high inflation the majority of Argentines are not able to afford them just like they can not afford Air Conditioning.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But what you described also boils down to the lack of private investment, which itself is a direct result of government imposed price limits on energy. So yet again the Argentine Government is responsible for what is happening.
It is consumers in Argentina that are subsidised by the government not the electric companies themselves, last year alone these subsidies were in the region of 6 billion us$,
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina consumers pay the least amount per unit compared by other LATAM users and the cost of electricity has remained the same for years. Consumption keeps increasing, but no real investment has been made in the infrastructure to distribute this increased demand.
To blame the electric companies for the failures is typical of the kirchenist government, if the electric companies cannot make a reasonable profit there will be no money to invest in updating/servicing the existing network.
Nationalisation will not solve the problem if the cash is not made
available to upgrade the infrastructure - nationalisation usually increase costs for everyone.
“Electricity rates are up to 15 times lower than in other countries in the region”
http://www.cronista.com/economiapolitica/Las-tarifas-electricas-son-hasta-15-veces-mas-bajas-que-en-otros-paises-de-la-region-20131220-0072.html
@13 Really? Then why does it kill children? Try these topics. Argie “police” murder the indigenous people. Argie government “farmers” kill anyone with chemicals. Argie government is broke because it won't pay its debts and the politicians have stolen the money anyway. Here's an idea. Why not appoint a team from somewhere like Australia to investigate? In a departure from normal argie practice, people who lie will get shot. No need for time-consuming trials. In another departure, members and minions of the argie “government” will be guilty until proven innocent. And will be shot several dozen times within 48 hours.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19 What a pity that soy doesn't kill a Stevie!
@23 Not a broken record. Argies don't have records. If they did they'd know how often they lie. On a per capita basis, argies lie about once every two seconds. Unless they're awake. Then it's continuous. Just imagine an argie saying “I'm a man”.
@27, 30 Didn't you know? Pushbikes.
@27, 30, 32, 41 Do you think that someone thinks that you are a desperate piece of uneducated, unintelligent, stupid, ignorant, brainwashed piece of argie shit? I think that you're a desperate piece of uneducated, unintelligent, stupid, ignorant, brainwashed piece of argie shit. Can you suggest anyone who doesn't agree that you're a desperate piece of uneducated, unintelligent, stupid, ignorant, brainwashed piece of argie shit? I have thoughts for your head. None of them “nice”. I see your head as a useful buffer between a tug and a dock wall.
@43 Shut up, dough-brain. You're a teacher, remember! Ten steps down from a sewer licker!
“”“”“Soy kills children... Sure Rimmer, that's why you lot attack Iraq throwing soy at them...”“”“””
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's some compelling and ever-growing evidence that the over-use of fertilisers and pesticides is killing Argentine children - yes.
Why dont you take off the blinkers and go and find out something about your own countrymen killing their children - its not as if its a first for your recent histories.
You mean like Monsanto?
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree, those should be kicked out of SA...
A perspective:
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I try and spend our New Year's eve celebration, or Réveillon, up on the beach in Fortaleza, in our northern state of Ceara. There is a dinner, and dancing all night to live music.( I usually stay until 03:30 )
When the temperature reaches 27-30 C, everyone turns on the AC, ceiling fans, the flatscreen, and heads to the frigo bar, or fridge, for a beer, Guarana, or a Caipirinha. What happns ?
The power goes out for a few minutes to a few hours. This despite the fact that there are large German-made windvanes directly behind us up on the hill, operated by our local electrical utility, Coelce.
And, as nighttime approaches, everyone readies for the annual shower and dressing in white ( considered saintly, even in my case ) just before the Réveillon dance. What happens ?
The water supply and pressure drops and disappears for hours, along with the electrical mains supply.
This has happened for decades, and affects thousands.
Does our government hold it's breath, falling to the floor kicking and screaming about “ Nationalizing ” the utilities, while wetting it's pants ?
You know the answer. We Brasilians deal with it, and try and engineer it out starting the next day. As we say, “ E manhã. ”
For our neighbours to the South to point to Aerolineas Argentinas as some justification model of nationalization, given it's massive expense, and dismally poor record as it is literally being run into the ground, is beyond the realm of fantasy.
It is just an excuse to steal something again and loot it for everything it's got.
Botinho
Dec 20th, 2013 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's a slight difference in not being able to dance until 3:30, drinking warm caipirinha, and having people dying...
““If they are not willing to give people the service they deserve, we will be willing to take over that service,” said cabinet chief Jorge Capitanich.” Yes and doom the nation to perennial darkness¡
Dec 20th, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's quite odd that the energy companies don't have enough money. Even with frozen tariffs, they still got billions in subsidies, which are supposed to fund the energy companies. So either the state hasn't been paying, or the energy companies have kept the money for themselves. In either case, all the subsidies policy did was just bigger and better stealing, and if the state nationalizes the power companies it's just to steal more efficiently.
Dec 20th, 2013 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ola Stevie;
Dec 20th, 2013 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your point is well taken.
My point is that we deal with such outages differently, and life goes on.
Warm Caipirinhas are common to us historically, as not everyone has ice until recent years, and Batucada requires no electricity.
Other members here have picked up on the point that this is not to take a business and make it more efficient, but.just another excuse to steal a business and loot it clean.
Other members here say a lot of drivel...
Dec 20th, 2013 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie how come you are not posting and celebrating on the article about Cuba, your fellow commies allowing cars to be sold in Cuba for the first time?
Dec 21st, 2013 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know know.....I know.....but they are not killing children. FYI, they where in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion learning tactics.....killing and torturing.
CHRIS R.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In some way it was obvious that you would never agree on the nationalization of any enterprice, it's too evident that we have deep ideological differences, and i respect your posture, but if you want to give an opinion about the problems of another country, you should be more responsable and avoid your tipicall too partial lectures.
You have to realise that your mischievous lectures don't change neather our dramatic story in relation to the consecuences of privatizations, nor the achievements that we could get since the state recovered it's patrimony which was sold during the times of the neoliberalism that you love so much.
FINALLY I UNDERSTAND THE REASON WHY ARGENTINA GOVERMENT IMPOSE HIGHER EER/COP ON CONDICIONADO DE AIRE. I RECKON THAT AIR CONDITIONER IS SELLING GOOD THESE DAYS
Dec 23rd, 2013 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina cannot keep the electricity on yet they are building a space program........I say it's more militarization for the Falklands.
Dec 23rd, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FYI every mischievous is the new buzzword axel learned....it's in all of her other posts.
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