MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands' piece published in Uruguay, infuriates Argentine ambassador
Argentine ambassador in Montevideo complained to Uruguay's leading newspaper over an article published in a features magazine referred to the Falkland Islands “Wind from the South” which “completely ignores the international community, and Uruguay's, struggle against colonialism”. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThe World is learning the truth - even Uruguay :-)
Dec 21st, 2013 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/falklands-history18.pdf
Argentina's web of lies starts to collapse
First of all, all departures from the Falkland Islands in 1833 were volunteers - five of them - as all residents were INVITED to stay when the Royal Navy arrived to assert British sovereignty. Second, in 1850 Argentina tacitly surrendered its claims by way of the Arana Southern Treaty.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 06:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0So, Dovena's protests are just more examples of the myths and fairy tales which abound in the minds of certain Argentines.
Dante, I actually prefer my Falklands articles abounding with trivialities, in preference to the hate and lies you and your ilk constantly vomit forth.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Even magazines in other countries, not only in Argentina, have to follow the malvinistas' “party line”. Nothing positive may be written about FI or the “kelpers”.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 07:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0That atrocious hairpiece is overheating his brain.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0So Argentina has designs on another country's free press and thinks it has the right to order it to follow Argentina's line. Now who's talking about colonialism?
Dec 21st, 2013 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's El Pais for you, the Uruguayan equivalent to The Sun...
Dec 21st, 2013 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7
Dec 21st, 2013 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes the Sun is known for its insightful, informative articles noted for giving its readers an entirely original perspective on an issue.
Hahahaha Redrow
Dec 21st, 2013 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sure it is!
Fact is, it is worldwide known for the qualities you mention, the first that pops into mind when one mentions “the Sun”...
Hahahaha!!
Very polite of Yelly Barrios and the magazine Paula NOT to mention Argentina's ridiculous claim, thus NOT mentioning the Argentine lies that an Argentine population living peacefully in the Islands was expulsed.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0It would be most embarrasing to quote Argentine documents in Archivo General de la Nación in Buenos Aires, which clearly refuse the Argentine lies.
The ambassadors entire argument is paradoxical. First, he uses politics to complain that the original article was politically motivated and should not have been.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0And what historical errors? That historically the Malvinista movement does not recognise historical facts, only their own fairy stories?
I love the bit where he compares the Malvinista movement with the struggle against apartheid. When in reality it is the Falkland Islanders struggle against the Malvinista movement that comes much much closer to that comparison. Only really separated by the fact that thankfully, the Malvinistas do not govern the Falkland Islands.
”Likewise there are no context explanations, “just a script which seems to have been written on contract from an anachronistic colonial empire”
Take note here because this is what Argentina is and it is what Argentina does. This is their modus operandi. It is clever in a way. They know it is wrong, they know it is illogical but that is the beauty of being prepared to tailor an argument to suite a moment. Even if it utterly contradicts the last thing they said. Arguing with a Malvinista is like trying to stuff an octopus into a string bag but I suppose we don't really have to argue at all.
There is no international agreement with the Malvinista cause, there is no binding UN resolution and the key to bread and circus politics is the provision of both the bread and the circus. All this idiot and his mates can provide these days is the circus and we can see that Argentineans are getting bored even with that now.
Go to the ICJ folks, it is a slim hope but it is all the hope you have. Aggravating one of the biggest economies in the world with this endless bullsh!t is not going to get you anywhere in the long term.
Sadly for you, the Islanders proclaimed themselves as Brits last time they voted.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hence, the ambassador is right.
The link to the article
Dec 21st, 2013 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.paula.com.uy/nota/viento-del-sur
@12
Dec 21st, 2013 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Steve, I think you are wrong, they wanted to be a British Overseas Territory, they are in fact FALKLANDERS . Full stop.
Expulsing peaceful argentines in 1842' tsk tsk. And the conquest of the desert in which 15,000 Indian residents were displaced is........?
Dec 21st, 2013 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Stevie ole son...
Dec 21st, 2013 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you forget about the recent referendum held on the islands?
You are spouting the same sort of rhetoric that FFF was referring to in #11
Smarten up, cabeza de tuco!!
Rogers work has been in the public domain (this in particular) for a couple of years at least (when I first read this)
Dec 21st, 2013 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And they choose now to get all bent out of shape?
Fuds.
How dare any magazine or newspaper publish any article that doesn't mention Argentinas fictitious claim to the mystical Islas Malvinas.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That are inappropriate comments from the ambassador. It shows, however, the weakness from current Uruguayan administration, that passively allows such nonsense.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ambassador Dovena must have earned a black mark in Buenos Aires for not stopping this article on the Falklands before publication or at least influencing its contents.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course their diplomat has to protest and rage against any press coverage that speaks the truth, because the truth doesn't match with Argentine fairy tales.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Any truth has to be suppressed immediately with the maximum violence possible, before it opens the eyes of the masses to the transparency of the Argentine lies.
Argentina does not even want their own citizens to view the truth. They regard anyone who doesn't follow the carefully constructed myths as a traitor.
Around about the time of the referendum earlier this year, a BBC reporter asked a group of Buenos Aires school children about the Falkland Islands. Whilst most ranted the usual Malvinista diatribe with the lies about the (non-existent) expulsion of the Argentines, one of them actually suggested that they ought to listen to the Islanders and talk with them instead. He was very much in the minority.
Argentina has a serious problem with the truth. That's why I believe it would help the Falkland Islanders if they were to commission a serious of historical documentaries about the real history of the Islands - referencing all the documentation in London as well as Paris, Madrid and Buenos Aires.
If a proper historian did the documentary detailing out the facts, then the Argentines would have a great deal of difficulty pedalling their lies. A documentary can be translated into many languages, including Spanish. Easier to understand the facts when you see them and they are explained to you.
The 51 degrees South documentaries did a lot to help show that Falkland Islanders are normal people, like anyone else, but they live in a very special place. I'd love for them to do more of those specials, because there is so much to see about life in the Islands.
I do hope that someone from FIG can give the documentaries some thought. In the end, the easiest way to show that Argentina has no claim on the Islands is to show the truth to the world.
@ 5 Troy Tempest
Dec 21st, 2013 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“That atrocious hairpiece is overheating his brain.”
How can you see his head TT, surely he is wearing trousers! :o)
Three people were commissioned to write books on the elephant.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Englishman wrote “Elephants I have shot”.
The Frenchman wrote “The love life of the elephant”.
The Argentine wrote “The elephant and the theft of Malvinas Islands”.
-variation on an old joke.
Truth hurts Mr Ambassador. Bad luck.
Dec 21st, 2013 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21 nigelpwsmith
Dec 21st, 2013 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina has a serious problem with the truth. That's why I believe it would help the Falkland Islanders if they were to commission a serious of historical documentaries about the real history of the Islands - referencing all the documentation in London as well as Paris, Madrid and Buenos Aires.
If a proper historian did the documentary detailing out the facts, then the Argentines would have a great deal of difficulty pedalling their lies. A documentary can be translated into many languages, including Spanish. Easier to understand the facts when you see them and they are explained to you.”
Hopefully the penny will drop one day-just look at the effect when people merely visit the islands and see Argentina is lying-a historical documentary properly referenced would have a great effect-then the Argentines would be challenged to dispute it and provide evidence to support their story.
From what I have seen on these posts most of the Argentine versions of history are fabricated and repeated as an extremely unconvincing mantra.
@25
Dec 21st, 2013 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly Pete...
The Argentines have pedalled their story about the violent expulsion of their people back in 1833, but they would not get far if it became widely known that only 4 of the Vernet settlers left in 1833, leaving 21 of Vernet's colonists behind, with the majority of the gauchos from the United Provinces.
Also, it would be interesting to see the reaction of people (even in Argentina) when they find out that Vernet was very happy with British ownership of the Falklands, that he openly welcomed them (to protect his property from being stolen by the United Provinces Government) and that he only wanted to make a profit from his enterprise.
It was Vernet's greed that led him to pirate the three American whalers. They were not going to pay him any royalty and they were taking vast numbers of the seals, which Vernet wanted to export.
The United Provinces had no wish to antagonise the real owners of the Islands (Great Britain) by sending a military unit down there & by doing so, start a war with the UK. So they instead they encouraged Vernet to take action. However, his actions incurred the wrath of the United States and all that did was encourage Great Britain to send the Royal Navy to assert British sovereignty.
If all this could be portrayed in a proper documentary, in much the same way they did a documentary on the life & voyages of Darwin, then everyone would have a better understanding of the true history and not the fictional Argentine fables.
The documents are there to prove it.
The funniest thing of all is that there are documents in Buenos Aires which prove that the Ambassador above is wrong - that the population was not “violently” expelled.
If the Argentines knew the truth, they might not be so willing to miss out on the tremendous oil wealth that will soon be headed to the Falkland Islanders, all because their present Government tore up the Hydrocarbons agreement.
@26 Nigel
Dec 21st, 2013 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be interesting to know if South American settlers such as Antonina Roxa (those pre-1833 settlers who subsequently lived in the Islands for a long time) have descendants living in the islands.
What never seems to be mentioned by the Argentines are the slaves (pre-1833) that gained their freedom post 1833.
How ironically you compared to Darwin documentaries-another who provided Falkland records.
Another point missed by the Argentines is that settlers went to the Islands to get away from the United Provinces, because they liked living in the Islands despite its then harsh, isolated living conditions, otherwise, obviously, they would not have left the United Provinces in the first place.
People did not go to the Islands to be 'British', they liked the Islands for what they were and therefore wanted to be Falkland Islanders and certainly not proto-Argentines.
Also, I think it highly significant that Captain Onslow's force was not resisted by the superior opposing numbers, as most of Pinedo's sailors were born in Britain (though I do not know what proportion of Irish/Welsh/Scots/ English they were). These sailors refused to fight their own people-so they could have hardly considered themselves patriotic 'United Provinces' nationals.
Although Brisbane (a Scot) and Helsby (English) later joined the settlement in 1833, the myth that there was a huge 'implantation' of English people is nonsense, of the settlers remaining after Clio left, one was Irish and I believe one Scottish-no English.
A full documentary would throw these facts to the fore, many of these embarasing to Argentina's fictions.
22 Chris
Dec 21st, 2013 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL, Chris !
Isn't this called having a free press?
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0@27
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite so.
Also, Argentina never mentions anything about the Falkland Islands after 1833, when large numbers of South Americans came to the Islands for work. Sure there were immigrants from Britain and everywhere else, but the gauchos still came and worked for Samuel Lafone.
There's a tremendous amount of information carefully collated by Lord Ton at this history blog:~
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
You could make an entire series on the history of the Falklands, even dramatising some of the key events to show the truth.
I wonder how Buenos Aires would explain the facts that their 'Garrison' murdered their own commanding officer in front of his wife and children, then raped her and all within a few weeks of arriving on the Islands.
I wonder how the United States would feel seeing the dramatisation of how their ships and their sailors were taken prisoner by Vernet. I'm sure the Americans would love to see the re-enactment of the USS Lexington teaching those 'Argie' dogs a lesson for stealing US ships.
Then there's the murder of Vernet's deputies over a pay dispute. I'm sure the Argentines who glorify Antonio Rivero would love to find out that he's nothing more than a murderer, who even helped the British capture his fellow murderers, so long as he was pardoned.
There's plenty of drama. Not just from 1764 to 1833, but also everything that led to the 1850 convention, the battle of the Falkland Islands in the Great War and then the help the Islanders provided to the South Atlantic Squadron searching for the Graf Spee.
Plenty of material for a whole series of programmes. Would also show the natural beauty of the Falkland Islands, to attract more people worldwide.
Someone from FIG ought to contact the BBC and discuss a documentary similar to this one.
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
@ 21 nigelpwsmith
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“If a proper historian did the documentary detailing out the facts, then the Argentines would have a great deal of difficulty pedalling their lies”
You won't have to wait much longer. Peter Pepper's comprehensive and thoroughly documented work is due in (hopefully) 2014.
However, nothing will stop the Argentine lies, as can be seen in the malvinistas' post on e.g. Mercopress and the lies spewed by Dovena. An Argentine indoctrinated with the official nonsense is a sack of lies; only the small minority who is able to think for themselves acknowledge the documented truth.
2014?? Hmm... 2015 maybe. Trust me :-)
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 05:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for “thoroughly documented” - so is mine own. The link is to the latest edition which has been comprehensively updated. That said, there'll be another update in the New Year to bring 2013 to its close.
P&P have lives apparently - I don't :-)
Stevie - Our referendum asked us a simple question:
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Did we want the FALKAND ISLANDS to continue deveoping as a British Overseas Territory( ie with us- the people who live here- in charge of our future and deciding our form of Govt and level of autonomy and independence)
Or - something else.
We elected for the former. An earlier survey threw out that some 2/3rds of us feel first and foremost- Falkland Islanders.
Got It?
Argentine Ambassador. What a disappointment.
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0”.....................and Uruguay's, struggle against colonialism”.
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0The ambassador must mean Uruguys struggle against Argentine colonialism!
Read in the light, The Argentine Ambassadors ouburst is refreshingly honest, pity a few more Argentines cant do the same!
If Argentina truly felt, throughout history that the Falklands were there islands, why on earth did they not add it to the Southern treaty in 1841? Because it was not they land.
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0That hair piece is as bad as Glen Ordway's, only Glen is a great sports anchor and this guy is a nimrod.
When will the buffoons ever learn the the Falkland sare:
NOT THEIR'S
NEVER HAVE BEEN THEIR'S
NEVER WILL BE THEIR'S
The cannot manger their own country and they cry like little children “mine,mine, mine”.....all because they think they will get rich from oil.
There idiots cannot drill for petro on land and they think they will do on on the sea?
Argentina should devote it's energy to what is know and does best. Exploit it's people.
Prosper in political corruption,
ignore investing in the infrastructure,
steal private businesses,
toss bread crumbs to the people and tell them they are prosperous,
piss on them and call it..“glorious rain for the soy bean gold”,
Argentina must be the only country in the history of humanity to never learn from it's mistakes. What did they do to be destined to a fate of re-living the same economic misery decade after decade after decade? Their is no military and the people should rise up and take control of a new destiny and sack those criminals in casa rosada.
“just a script which seems to have been written on contract from an anachronistic colonial empire”
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love the way they continue to use the same form of words that they think sound convincing and that add gravitas to their arguments but instead their rhetoric expose the hypocrisy of those arguments. The words fail them.
According to the Oxford dictionary,
‘Anachronism’ means: ‘something wrongly placed in a particular historical period or regarded as out of date’
‘Colony’ means: an area of land that the people of another country settle in and control’
‘Empire’ means: ‘a group of countries controlled by one person of government’
Given that, as far as we can tell, the Argentine claim to the Falkland Islands rests on its abortive attempt to establish a colony there in 1833, it is there claim that is way out of date and in fact it is Argentina who aspires to settle in and control, i.e. colonise the Falklands.
As far as the word empire goes; again they are trying to control another country, the Falklands. Also, an Empire may well be something the Argentines aspire to but, in reality; they have well and truly missed the historical boat.
The current crop of leaders (including the Ambassador) need to grow up and expand their horizon beyond their obsessions, because, at the moment, they seem to be driven by an acute case of low self-worth.
An infuriated “ambassador” is no ambassador.
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
@7, 9 Have you forgotten that The Sun came up with one of the BEST headlines EVER. It just said “GOTCHA”. Remember what that was about?
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22 Remember WW2? When Britain broadcast the truth around the world. Could Britain, or the Falklands, set up radio and tv stations broadcasting to South America? All broadcasting the truth. Just imagine how South Americans would react to the news that most countries laughed themselves sick at the “inter caetera” papal bull of 1493 and the Treaty of Tordesillas of 1494. Then there could be a documentary about how the Spanish got their arses kicked in 1770/71. Another about the pirates of “argieland” in 1820 and 1828-1831. The “argie” murderers of 1832. The truth about the Arana-Southern Treaty in 1850. A reading of the speech of vice president Marcos President to the Congress in 1866. In which he stated that there was only one outstanding matter with the UK. Compensation owed by argieland to English citizens. Then there could be a three part series on the nazism of Peron and how he loved getting it from Hitler. Perhaps a spin-off on how argieland picked the middle of WW2, encouraged by Adolf, to make claims to parts of the British Empire. Perhaps a round-up documentary of argies running from Brits. Plenty of footage from '82!
The only thing fascists hate and fear more than someone saying no to them is when someone else hears them.
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 conq
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Totally agree.
Doesn't anybody in Argentina the balls to properly research and broadcast
the truth about the malvinas myth? I guess there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.
@ 41 Musky
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bit of a problem there.
Try publishing the truth in The Dark Country and you end up with TMBOA using the Judges to remove your licence.
If you are really lucky you will get La Camping It Up send a bunch of thugs round to hospitalise you.
Boy are you in fear of your life then. Argie hospitals, they are like Hotel California: you can sign in but never leave, not in one piece anyway!
#33 You have to realize that stevie is all over the world. He thinks he has a handle on the reality and mindset of every country in the world, safely in Europe googling away like titi boi tobi the troll.
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 Conq
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That would be cool even though the truth would necessitate TMBOA (copyright Chris R), having another head op.
The only difficulty with censorship these days is that the internet rather circumvents it.
Dec 22nd, 2013 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If TMBOA tried to stop you viewing a documentary in Spanish about the Falkland Islands, then all the FIG needs to do is upload it to You-Tube or multiple websites.
Anyway, it wouldn't work because the other South American countries would not censor it. Word would spread about the Argentine lies and no-one would agree to follow any boycott of the Falklands when it means losing trade with one of the richest countries in the region.
The truth will out.
The truth will destroy the Argentine myths.
Lovely picture of the crew of HMS Protector in The Times this morning, out on the ice having an early Christmas dinner. They will be out on patrol on Christmas day. Remember Endurance and her role in defeating the odious Asiz when Argentina tried to invade South Georgia. We must remember that all the islands are gems to be protected from Gollum and the Orcs who are aching to colonise them against the will of the inhabitants. Britain remains vigilant.
Dec 23rd, 2013 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0bloody rubbish english comments!
Dec 23rd, 2013 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47
Dec 24th, 2013 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are obviously well educated NOT, Just like your school report “ Could do better ”
like the man said, Argentina rules the waves,
Dec 24th, 2013 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0do as we say, or else,
now the rest of south America can either do as argentina says, act the poodle and yelp,
or stand up for freedom and democracy and tell Argentina to put up,, or shut up,
what are you south American countries,
[MEN ] or [ MOUSES ] lol.
@47
Dec 24th, 2013 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comment is complete rubbish.
@ 32 Lord Ton
Dec 25th, 2013 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0yes, your Falklands History is well documented, although I have a 553 pages version as opposed to the 536 pages version, you linked to :)
To the Argentinos, however, you are a partisan, “English”.
Pepper seems less so ,-)
The key point though is that there is enough detail in the histories collected so far to make a detailed drama series documenting the entire history of the Falkland Islands, from first discovery to present day.
Dec 25th, 2013 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's taken thousands of hours of research to collect this material together and we are grateful to the experts who've been kind enough to put all this online. It's a pity that the Argentines ignore the material, but they would given that it contradicts their fables & myths.
A full dramatization of the history would be difficult to refute. It would also encourage more people to visit the Islands to see the very sites of the drama for themselves. Many historical novels have brought about a steady stream of tourists. Even the novels of Enid Blyton have troves of Japanese tourists flocking to the Lake District to see the area in which the novelist lived whilst Stratford Upon Avon makes a fortune from the Shakespeare tourists.
I do hope someone from FIG considers this plea for a documentary/drama and discusses it with the other members of the Legislative Assembly.
So Ferrero Rocher is off the menu this year then?
Dec 25th, 2013 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@52... A nice though, but a little perspective.
Dec 26th, 2013 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have layers and layers of well-documented, tediously-collected and carefully-integrated evidence that the world isn't 600o years old, that Obama wasn't born in Kenya (not even Rush or Glenn Beck will go near that one), that your Queen isn't a space lizard, vaccines and that vaccines aren't giving the kids of gilt-ridden celebrities autism, that Jews died in concentration camps, the world isn't flat (not kidding!) and the earth isn't at the center of the universe (no really! We get email at our office on this with the math that “proves” geocentrism!). And guess what? It still give people personal comfort to believe sometimes laughable, sometimes cruel, and always false fantasies against such clear evidence.
As for a documentary blasting an easily provable fascistic national myth that says that Argentina won't be whole without satisfying a claim that government after government is too afraid to take to the ICJ because they know there is no chance? Looks good on paper. But if the other easily provable lies are swallowed like comfort food this is just another one for the list.
The easily disprovable lies are swallowed as verbatim truth. That's why you need to take the campaign to them by putting something on TV that is backed by documentary evidence held in both London and Buenos Aires.
Dec 27th, 2013 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has managed to con a huge number of nations to support them on the basis of these lies, because none of the other countries are willing to go to the extreme of verifying if the information is a lie or not.
The more you show that the Islanders are the natural inheritors of the Islands and that the Argentine claim is imperialistic expansionism which would not end with the Islands, but continue with the rest of the South American mainland, then the more likely that Argentina's Mercosur support will dwindle.
It's a mistake to simply refute lies by saying that they can be disproved, you need to go out of your way to show that the lie is malicious & pernicious, because at heart, all honest people are willing to take what is said to them as truth, unless someone else is willing to prove the opposite is true.
The C24 Committee swallows Argentina's lie whole, because that committee's raison d'etre is the decolonisation of colonial lands. But that committee has not properly considered the fact that it was never a true colonial land in the first place, that Argentina took part in land-grabbing and that by allowing Argentina to take control of the Islands would be an act of colonization of the true inhabitants, the true owners, the Falkland Islanders.
@47
Dec 27th, 2013 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0bloody rubbish british!
@ 56 ron_57
Dec 27th, 2013 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you talking to yourself @47?
Is it because everybody else on here won't return your posts, other to point out what an utter twat you are, like now?
@55, I really don't think they've conned any nations or committees. Part of the problem is that a lot of the people you talk about already KNOW the facts and act accordingly. The C24 (a corrupt committee on par with the “new, improved and 'reformed'” HRC) needs the Falklands and Gibraltar as high profile cases to show that it's “doing something” aren't are outside of their mandate. They know darned well what the facts and, it is their job to know. More importantly their rasion d'être indeed is to “help” the NGSTs to self-determination which is why they rolled the dice with Tokelau and squeaked by twice retaining their Great White Father status and or course refuse to do so with the Falklands since that one is a guaranteed humiliating loss to them (and I really don't think they are ever going to try it again). As long as the Argentines and C24 are willing to validate each other they will ignore all the facts on the table there. Same with the AR government otherwise we'd have resolved this at the ICJ years ago. As for Argentina's neighbors: they have to deal with it on a daily basis and therefore have to yes and nod like coworkers who have to deal with an ineffectual but unstable “colleague” and their bete noir. Yet even there they don't buy the myth though they gladly use it to rage against The Norte and for Latam Solidarity but with no commitment to change the status quo. If they DID, visiting representatives of the islands would be sent “back” to London for fraud or better still, and I still await deported to Buenos Aires in handcuffs for breaking whatever Argentine law they fancy. All of these people know that Argentina has no case and more importantly are willing to have “side door” relations with the islands in plain view of Argentina and the rest of the street.
Dec 27th, 2013 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The nut that needs to be cracked is the fantasy within Argentina proper, and I'm just a little pessimistic to think that it can be done with a documentary when in 2013, they can J.F.G.I. it..
@55
Dec 28th, 2013 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It's a mistake to simply refute lies by saying that they can be disproved, you need to go out of your way to show that the lie is malicious & pernicious, because at heart, all honest people are willing to take what is said to them as truth, unless someone else is willing to prove the opposite is true.”
I agree-a documentary might be ignored by people who do not want to know the truth-but will make many other people think-especially if it is well referenced.
The FIG could not even see for themselves that until recently the BBC's website representation of 1833 was supporting the Argentine side by misrepresenting the facts about the settlers of various nationalities allowed to remain.
Also for years, the MLA's were sitting on their keysters doing nothing (apparent) to repudiate the lies spewing from B.A.
Now they can see for themselves the benefits of visiting other countries, becoming more vocal at the C24, and appearing at the EU and the positive effect they are having by challenging the Argentine position and the more they do that, the more embarrassed and desperate the Argentines will become.
Argentina will claim to ignore the Islanders as if they do not exist, but behind the scenes, Argentina will have to work harder to find more lies to counter the Islander's view.
This will not dispel Argentine myths overnight, but over time the cracks in the Argentine plaster will show and an accurately researched referenced documentary will have an effect.
So it should definitely happen.
The absence of one is an unmissed opportunity.
“So it should definitely happen.”
Dec 28th, 2013 - 04:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree, the more the Isander's case is presented, the more their case will be recognised and understood by the International community.
They hav e nothing to lose and everything to gain by presenting their side of the story using every means at their disposal.
There's an example of how the 'factual' pressure has modified the Argentine behaviour.
Dec 28th, 2013 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0For years, TMBOA used to repeat the mantra (that the Ambassador just issued) about all the Argentine Islanders being expelled in 1833.
We all know that this simply isn't true and documentation in Buenos Aires, actual copies of Pinedo's report have been scanned online to show that the Argentines are fully aware that any claim that all the Vernet Islanders were expelled is a myth.
This myth is fundamental to the Argentine claims, along with that of Spanish inheritance, so to prove that the vast majority of the Vernet Islanders remained and more importantly, the majority of these were from the United Provinces, puts a massive dent in the Argentine propaganda.
TMBOA stopped making the erroneous claim about expulsion for a while, because she knew that it was easily disproved and the media wasn't accepting her claim. It didn't stop the rest of her false claims, but it did modify her behaviour.
If you put enough historical documents in the right order and context, then show how they relate to the historical events, then the Argentines dare not open their mouths without appearing obvious liars.
Argentina is a very backward country politically. TMBOA's rant at the G20 meeting had all the other leaders dozing off with boredom. Argentina is divorced from reality, but their lies are made to seem credible because the people they lie to don't know the truth and haven't seen rebutting evidence.
If you want to stop the Argentines lying, then make it uncomfortable for them to tell the lies without people calling them a liar to their face.
@62 Lord Horatio
Dec 28th, 2013 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”For years, TMBOA used to repeat the mantra (that the Ambassador just issued) about all the Argentine Islanders being expelled in 1833.
We all know that this simply isn't true and documentation in Buenos Aires, actual copies of Pinedo's report have been scanned online to show that the Argentines are fully aware that any claim that all the Vernet Islanders were expelled is a myth.
This myth is fundamental to the Argentine claims, along with that of Spanish inheritance, so to prove that the vast majority of the Vernet Islanders remained and more importantly, the majority of these were from the United Provinces, puts a massive dent in the Argentine propaganda.”
Absolutely.
Many people are not identifying that settlers in the 1820s were from Germany and Britain - and that those from South America like the Chileans of today did not move to Vernet's settlement to enhance a UP claim but that they wanted to be Islanders.
I cann0t drop an insistence on the fact that most of Pinedo's sailing crew circa 1833 were British (not from the UPs), and the refusal of these to challenge Captain Onslow in 1833 was significant-if these British mercenaries had identified themselves with UP nationality, they would have challenged Onslow (as US settlers born in Britain challenged the British).
Also, although few in number, it is not insignificant that those like Antonina Roxa-a settler from South America-were in the Falkland Islands before 1833 and settled there well into the 19th century.
Also the Argentines revere Rivero-yet he accepted British rule over the Falklands in 1833 as he happily stayed. How history might have been different if he and the rest of the gauchos that were actually persuaded by Onslow to stay on had been paid with proper money.
Another point the Argentines do not address is that it was the UP government that ordered the execution of Mestiver's murderers by firing squad-therefore it is totally justifiable that they were expelled.
November 2013 South Georgia News and Events:
Dec 29th, 2013 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0- New Two-Year Fishing Licences
- South Georgia Magistrate Sworn In At Government House
- Much Achieved In South Georgia In 2013
- Acceptable Level Of Non-Target Mortality
- Fishing and Shipping News
- HMS Protector On Patrol
- Grey-headed Albatross Added To The Endangered Species List
- Animator In SG
- Lucky Chick
- First Sight – Will Life For Vagrant Ducks Be Rosy?
- Anthony Smith - Artist in Residence At The SG Museum
- Adventure Comes From Uncertainty On The Shackleton Traverse
- Church Centenary - Christmas Memories
- Bird Island Diary
- South Georgia Snippets
- Dates For Your Diary
South Georgia Newsletter, November 2013: http://www.sgisland.gs
Horatio, you'll have to forgive me for being pessimistic on this since for years I and my people have had to play whackamole against the never ending denial of young earth creationists with my mallet of facts (I mean ferkeristsakes, look at the recent and nearly annual Texas textbook crap that is being resolved yet again only to have to do it in the next cycle). If the FIG wants to do such a documentary, I cannot (obviously) nor should not stand in their way and I'd wish them better luck than science advocates have had for the YECers. But the tactics of the YECers and Malvanistas have the nearly the same “pillars of denial” (For the Malvinas Analog: the documented facts and legal principles favor the Islanders in every case, which is every single one of them, are wrong and no one believes those facts anyway; the Islands are a beachhead for western imperialism justifying even latam fascist to “liberate” them; if the islanders have a right to self-determination a large part of the identity and national mythos of The Argentine will be in mortal danger). And like I said, no one of consequence have acted on the Argentine argument. No deportations, no task forces to “liberate the islands” or runs on the UNSC. No demands that the UK and AR go to the ICJ, and backdoor delegations are tolerated -- just as creationists (christian scientists notwithstanding) don't switch doctors when their antibiotics are rotated. Only on the first pillar would your documentary get through but the broader implication on the other two pillars will still hold up the big fascist malvanistas lie, if you catch my drift) and there is no penalty for believing the lie since the Falklanders and their freedom have never been a threat to the Argentines nor can ~they~ harm the Islanders anymore.
Dec 29th, 2013 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like I said, I've fought similar battles over the years and continue to do so (for science in my backyard and the Islanders inalienable rights in theirs) but I'm not a believer in miracles on this issue.
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