MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Active online poll from “The Telegraph” shows Falklands should be under Argentine sovereignty
According to an active online poll released in the British newspaper “The Daily Telegraph”, a clear majority, almost double, of the voters affirmed that the Falklands Islands should be under Argentina’s sovereignty. Almost half the majority of respondents rejected the idea and supported Britain, while the rest answered that the territory should be under “shared sovereignty.” Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesAccording to an active online poll released in the British newspaper “The Daily Telegraph”, a clear majority, almost double, of the voters affirmed that the Falklands Islands should under Argentina’s sovereignty. Almost half the majority of respondents rejected the idea and supported Britain, while the rest answered that the territory should be under “shared sovereignty.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Should'nt that read, “of the Argentine voters.”
it seems the readers of the telegraph are pretty intelligent then.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sadly we cannot say the same about mercopress readers, excepting a few.
http://bubblear.com/2014/01/oops-the-telegraph-conducts-online-survey-over-malvinas-sovereignty-argentina-wins/
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing to see here. The Argentinians are obsessed whilst the British didn't bother voting. To them it us a none issue until Argentina actually does something stupid.
Yes, and according to the Buenos Aires Herald all the votes for Argentina came from Brits too. This would be big news I guess, if it was true... which it isn't.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another joke of a poll by the Telegraph.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first thing that happened was that the Argentinian networks latched on to it - the BA Herald even published a link to it.
It did however provided a great boost to the click through rate for the Telegraph
I wondered when this nonsense would find it's way to Mercopress after it being headline news in the B A Herald. It's a desperate grasp to bolster Filmus in his new role. They will be doing a washing powder survey next week.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BA Herald had it as, “63% of Brits” voted for Argentine sovereignty.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not a true statement in my opinion.
Anyone enlighten me, is it possible to identify where an on line vote originated from?
“Anyone enlighten me, is it possible to identify where an on line vote originated from?”
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you are not the brightest of the bunch, are you?
I would be exceptionally surprised if 63% of British people thought that.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where the people who voted on that poll come form though is another matter...as is if they are actual people and not just some kiddy-script or bot.
I looked at the poll before any Rgs spotted it and it was 10 to 1 saying that it should remain British. Sovereignty of the Falkland Islands is clearly British. Argentina is shit scared of taking the issue to the IJC....LOL!
Jan 09th, 2014 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway, the Telegraphs poll is irrelavant the Islanders voted in a PROPER REFERENDUM, and over 99% of long term residents and people who can trace their roots back to before RGland existed said they wanted the Falkland Islands to remain a British Overseas Territory.
Argentines should mind their own business. The mythical Malvinas does not exist . The referendum on Self determination and the humiliating defeat of the Argentine Invaders in 1982 dashes Argentine colonial ambitions forever.
@8
Jan 09th, 2014 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If by your sarcastic comment, you mean I know jack shit about IT or Computor Technology, your right, I don't.
Pot, kettle, black. Make a sentence out of that smartass!
Only survey that counts is that Falkland Islands people voted to remain British by 99.8 per cent in last year’s referendum.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All they have to do is track the IP address of the computer that is casting the vote. Other websites with similar polls ahve done the same and then displayed the voters' countries of origin afterwards to show how global opinions vary, apparently the folk at the Telegraph are incable of this.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you, that answers my question.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe this is the second time they ran this poll, the last one being March 2012. The results being much the same. Things must be slow at the Telegraph.
On the bright side, they have yet to publish the result as a reflection of British Public Opinion, which if this is what is was, they would have done in a heartbeat.
2014
Jan 09th, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FCO said “The UK has no doubt about its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands and surrounding maritime areas...”
Let´s compare another staments and position of high officers in FCO history as well another british figures of unquestionable importance and education in the matter.
1) “I have reviewed all the papers relating to the Falklands. By no means i found clear that we have ever been holders of the sovereignty of these islands.”
Duke of Wellington, the then prime minister 1834 (just one year after British officers took illegally Malvinas islands expelling argentinean inhabitants that lives in peace in that moment on those islands).
2) “... the Argentine government's attitude is not entirely unjustified and our action has been somewhat despotic,”
Sydney Spicer the hishgtest Officer (Senior) in Department of the Foreign Office, 1910.
3) “Who had the best right in that time we annexed the islands. I think was the government of Buenos Aires [...] We can not easily make a good claim and craftily have done everything possible to avoid discussing the issue with Argentina ”
R. Campbell, Secretary of the Foreign Office, 1911.
4) “the Argentine claim to the Falklands in any form are baseless” ...... “the English case is not strong enough to face a public controversy”
Sir Malcolm A. Robertson, British ambassador in Buenos Aires, 1928
5) “Our case has a certain fragility” and advised that eventually became “feel strong on the islands, avoiding discussion on a policy to drop the case”
George Fitzmaurice , Foreign Ministry legal, 1936.
6) ”... our took by force of Falkland Islands in 1833 was so arbitrary [...] is therefore not easy to explain our position without showing ourselves as international (bandits) outlaws. ”
John Troutbeck, SENIOR official of the British Foreign Office, 1936
This is only examples, there is more , im wondering now what FCO will say in 2020 - 2030 ?
i love brits and his coherence, later they wonder why 99,9% of earth hate them
Very good to see some open mindedness and enlightened thinking around this issue by the G.B public.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I regret however that this poll only reflects readers of 'the telegraph'.
It will be some time before such a result can be achieved within the red top tabloid reading population.
Even then the message would have to pass through the haughty disconnected blue blood establishment.
But still a positive sign.
15
Jan 09th, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Misquote
“ It is not clear to me that we have ever possessed the sovereignty of all these
islands.”....Duke of Wellington...
...there is a difference.....
#17
Jan 09th, 2014 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0there is indeed......1774 and ultrecht agreement with Spain to withdraw from port egmont sound to me......thats all.
Seems to me then that you missed the boat, the time to negotiate your claims on sovereignty would have been between 1834 and 1936 and not after the election of Peron in the 1940's. Why did'nt you grasp the nettle at the time?
Jan 09th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where was your contemporary national claim?
These people are dead and their opinions long redundant.
Why do you, collectively you, cling to British opinion of times past and not today.
Do you run your lives or govern your country by the opinion of your long dead political leaders and officials? think not.
For that matter, in the 21C, who does????????
@ So Far...
Jan 09th, 2014 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, there it is the misquote again missing the 'all' out, and to put it in context...
1829
On July 23rd, the Colonial Secretary, Sir George Murray writes to the British Prime Minister, the Duke of Wellington,“It appears to me that the interval between the cessation of the power of old Spain and the consolidation of that of the new governments in South America would be the best time for our resuming our former possession of the Falkland Islands…. I have not spoken with Lord Melville on the subject, but I believe he is very sensible of the importance in the naval point of view of the occupation of those islands.”
July 25th, the Prime Minister responds, “It is not clear to me that we have ever possessed the sovereignty of all these islands.”
Expelling inhabitants....really, you are going to go with that are you, just stopped reading your post after that.
#20
Jan 09th, 2014 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you should continuing reading my friend....knowledge, justice and truth is the basis for behave properly in front of the civilized world.
The first two are dependant on the the third! Without truth there is no Knowledge or Justice, just peoples peoples versions of it, just as there are peoples versions of the truth!
Jan 09th, 2014 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bit of a Catch 22, innit!
@21 Then maybe you are preaching to the wrong people. I would politely suggest you speak to your government in Argentina (assuming you are Agrentinian) they could start by telling the truth, rather than rely on mis-information, rhetoric and outright lies.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then, maybe you could start to behave properly in front of the civilized world and they may even take you seriously.
#16:
Jan 09th, 2014 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody can know how many of the poll respondents were not choosing from self-interest. No doubt some of the respondents might be hoping to be able to confiscate the farms of Falkland Islanders after an invading Argentine military has killed the resisters and expelled the survivors.
Neither do we know why a Daily Telegraph poll would have question in Spanish unless it was to serve the interests of Spanish-speaking respondents - most of whom might be assumed to be Argentine but if not, from Hispanophone countries.
Many of Britain's haughty blue blood establishment might be happy to dump the Falklands into the laps of Argentina . However, most of the Falklands are not blue bloods and it wasn't mostly blue bloods who fought and died in Falklands War.
The positive outcome of such polls is to ignore such obviously-biased distractions and to push on with leadership to cooperate with Falkland Islanders for a sustainable future.
I guess this online Telegraph poll is the final nail in the coffin (Think will be pleased and the nail industry will be disappointed) for the Falklands and its people. Time to pack our bags and move to another country. Argentina has won!
Jan 09th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That was sarasm of course. An online poll means nothing.
Some time ago, a poll was done over the sovereignty of Gibraltar, [anyone remember it ]
Jan 09th, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was later revealed that Spanish embassy staff had effectively high jacked, the poll getting thousands of Spaniards to clog the system and of course the crooked result was that Spain should have sovereignty,
So, this is the same rubbish, its being high jacked by argy members and sympathisers,
So the poll is in fact a false rigged vote,
But out of interest,
Perhaps CFK should give the argentine people a democratic referendum to find out if they agree with their deluded leaders obsession with the Falklands true or false,
1, should we risk our country for the sake of a small island 300 miles away,
2, should we just concentrate on dealing with our own problems and leave the Falklands alone.
Mmmmmmmmmmm just a thought..
.
Sorry to point out to those Argies, here is the link to the BA Herald story with the Telegraph link to the poll.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/149184/uk-poll-63-believe-malvinas-islands-%E2%80%98should-be-argentinean%E2%80%99
Put 2 and 2 together and you have a nicely hijacked poll just a leiard pointed out earlier. Read the comments as well, look at the names of some of the posters. I would be very surprised if the telegraph had so many latino readers.
Poor desperate argies.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I remember right the on line poll was for:
Jan 09th, 2014 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. British Sovereignty.
2. Argentine Sovereignty.
3. Shared Sovereigty.
Seems reasonable then, that.
The majority of British readers polled 1.
The majority of Argentinian readers polled 2.
The minority of both nationalities, who consider themselves reasonable. polled 3.
Anyone disagree?
@21
Jan 09th, 2014 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why oh why must the Argies always look backwards, that's probably why their country is such a mess. Look to the future, what can you give the FALKLANDERS to change their mind? The longer you bang on about the past the better off the FALKLANDERS are going to be. They are not bothered about the past, they want a future for their children.
To be fair,
Jan 09th, 2014 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the people that live their,
should be the only ones to vote,
and they have.
It is surprising that our Argentine friends put so much weight behind a poll in a newspaper which is open to voting by anybody anywhere....but are so utterly terrified of a genuine referendum of the people who live on the islands?
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why does nearly everyone who lives on the islands, many of whom have families who can trace back 100-180 years on the islands....so despise the idea of Argentine sovereignty?
It is a question that until Argentina can answer it for themselves, the answer will always be the same.
When their Spanish/Italian forefathers had lived in what is now Argentina for a couple of hundred years, they couldn't wait to drop their European links...why are the falkland islanders different?
Vestige, trolley, so far?
Why do people with 180 years of South Atlantic/South American heritage HATE the idea of being under Argentine sovereignty?
Why do they HATE the idea of joining you in you thriving democracy?
Why do they prefer links with a fallen empire 6000 miles away?
After all, we have nothing to offer them, but a failed European economy, years of rape and pillage, years of colonialism and “murdering women and children”
You have numerous (sic) Nobel Laurates and a rich and vibrant South American brotherhood.
I am sure the referendum must be rigged, and the telegraph represents the true islanders view point.
After all, Hector Timmerman said that those islanders with a 200 year heritage on the islands were “argentine”m which of course was news to them!!!
Same old misinformation and out-and-out lies by the malvinistas I see.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On a lighter note, I' ve just conducted a poll and the results are in...
100% agree that people with any Latin heritage should play no further part in the democratic process in South and Central America, and the UN should begin planning measures to get said people deported back to south western Europe ASAP.
The poll also found that chocolate icecream should also be banned south of the River Plate.
Now how do we get these polls findings enforced? Come on malvinistas!
anyone got the link to the telegraph website cant seem to find it?
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IT'S NOT SERIOUS.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although i recognize that i like the result of that poll, i think that we can't take it seriously, mainly because most people in both countries have a too partial knowledge about this conflict. Maybe it's true that in britain a landslide think that the islands should be argentine, but a poll can't be a relevant argument in order to defend argentina's right over the islands.
On the other hand, the foreign office omited that this cause has always been considered like a special case by the u. n. since 1965, beside, self determination has never been applied to this case by that institution, not even after the result of the referendum, in fact, a few days before that popular consultation, the president of the decolonization committee explained the reasons why self determination is not applicable for this cause.
Anyway, it's absolutly expectable that the foreign office, the british government, the lawmakers from the islands , and some hypocrite forists continue to distort the true meaning of the application of the right to self determination, in fact, i have always thought that it's pretty obvious that although the u. k. is an admirable country for different reasons, however in some aspects, it still bahaves like the same thief of XIX century which deprived argentina of exercising it's rights over the islands in 1833.
I will always keep on saying that the only one way to finish with this humbled situation for argentina, is to take the case to the arbitration, as arg. suggested in 1884 and 1888, or as britain suggested in 1948, (but only in relation to the dependencies from the islands).
However, i think that if after 1948, none of the two nations proposed again to take the question to the arbitration, is because perhaps both aren't sure of wining the case before the court.
it still behaves like the same thief of XIX century which deprived argentina of exercising it's rights over the islands in 1833
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what right do Argentina have, [ none ]
by doing what you wish, you become the very same people, that you despise and call pirates,
only the people that live on the islands day in, day out, have that right,
not argentina or Britain,
now that’s democracy,
anything else is simply [ not ]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The page for the telegraph
..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/
and enjoy…
.
@2 About as “intelligent” as you. In other words, “non”.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 Don't be nasty. After all, you're a stupid argie. Did you ever really think that you could invade and occupy a British territory without Britain kicking your balls? Did you notice how Britain sent a little Task Force to contend with argie military might? Fewer troops, fewer aircraft and vessels 7,000 miles from home. Not 400. Isn't it horrible to be an insignificant little toe-rag? Did you notice how Britain only sent 5% of its troops?
@9 It's a typical Telegraph poll. The last time they conducted anything of the sort, most of the “votes” came from the argie embassy. News for argieland. Many British troops who were in the Falklands in '82 would go back. Around 50%, or more, of the male British population would happily go as well.
@15 Shall we mention the Arana-Southern Treaty of 1850 that “resolved all outstanding differences”? How about Macro Paz, vicepresident of somewhere insignificant who, in 1866, addressed the Congress with “The only outstanding matter with the United Kingdom” is money we owe. But, as a minor matter, you might consider the legal principle of uti possidetis. At the end of a “conflict”, territory belongs to the state in possession. And, after the Falklands War, what was argieland in possession of? Squat!
@18 Doesn't exist!
@21 I'd just like to point out to you that, assuming you're an argie, you will be destroyed before we abandon the Falkland Islanders. Do not make another mistake if you value your life. You wankers made an incredible mistake in 1982. You got a little spank on the wrist. Do you want to find out what we can really do? What the people of Britain will demand?
after all...i need to recognise that almost 74 % brits have dignity.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Contrats !! there is hope for you guys.....
Should the Falkland Islands be British or Argentinian ?
British------ 24.03 % (6,353 votes)
Argentienan ---- 73.82% (19,514 votes)
Shared sovereignty --------- 2.14 % (567 votes)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/10556014/Argentina-appoints-Malvinas-Secretary-to-push-Falkland-Islands-issue.html
38 so_far
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately for you, the only thing that really matters is what the Falkland Islanders think.
We would become independent before you ever got any tiny piece of our sovereignty.
one must not always believe,
Jan 09th, 2014 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what one reads in the tabloids..
Not April 1st yet is it? Searched the Telegraph (and Guardian) and found no poll or mention. They don't mean the Guyana telgraph do they (if one exists)
Jan 09th, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina appoints Malvinas Secretary to push Falkland Islands issue
Jan 09th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[ might as we as appointed batman , or robin , ]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/10556014/Argentina-appoints-Malvinas-Secretary-to-push-Falkland-Islands-issue.html,
………….
Daniel Filmus
[still sounds like fish fingers to me ]
Was “unacceptable” that the Malvinas –– was occupied by a “colonial power”.
As by argentina occupying them would amount to the same, [would it not]
,,,,
According to the Argentine embassy in London, Mr Filmus's brief will include: “Bilateral actions, negotiations, strategies of actions with all countries to defend the Argentine rights and interests as well as the promotion of Argentine rights worldwide.”
[but sod the rights of the people that live their ]
Hector Timerman, the, said the appointment was “historic”.
[ as losing is a part of history ]
“It is unacceptable that in the 21st century Argentina is unable to take decisions over its entire territory and that a part of this territory is being occupied by a colonial power.”
It is also unacceptable that in the 21st century,
We still allow jacked up dictators to think they can,
Threaten, bully , intimidate , blockade , a tiny innocent island into submission,
,,,
the right of self-determination as enshrined in the UN Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights- the Falkland’s have these rights..
basically argentina will NOT
go to the ICJ as they would lose,
they won’t invade- as they would lose,
so they will send all the prams to the UN and let the kids scream untill they give in,
,,,,,,,,,,,,
Why do CFK just grow up , and pick on someone its own size like,
China, USA , Russia , India , north Korea , Iran ,
?? Because it would lose,
Like all modern bullies….
disgraceful..
Axel (moron)
Jan 09th, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The telegraph poll was open to Argentine callers, and multiple calls from the same person, it is irrelevant.
It is absolutely not the place of the chair of the decolonisation comittee to have an opinion either way, nor does he “speak for the UN”
The snide back door attempt to make non-self governing territories “special cases” if there is a sovereignty dispute, was kicked out by the UNGA (who do speak for the UN, in 2008.
As there is only a sovereignty dispute in Gibraltar and the Falklands, which two do you think the UNGA was thinking of when they clearly, and in a large majority, removed a sovereignty dispute as a block for self determination?
Britain was not a “thief” in 1833, it was simply reclaiming its historic territory from 50 rapists and murderers who were trying to steal the islands. Your analysis and language is too “partial” and “mediocre” .
It is interesting that Argentina wanted arbitration in the 1880s, the same decade when it actually was behaving like a 19th century THIEF and were committing genocide in stealing Patagonia.
“I will keep saying” (sic) that we will not go to arbitration unless the islanders wish it (they don't) and certainly not until Argentina has perminantly withdrawn from Patagonia it's implanted population.
I would also require that Argentina put in trust £1bn USD, and if they lose the case this money must be used for a UN supervised “deindoctrination” programme for imbeciles like you.
You will have it explained to you daily that your research is a joke, you are an imbecile, and that the islands were never Argentine, nor do Argentina have any “rights”. This will be explained to morons like you until you get that you are a imbecile.
Then and only then would your arbitration idea be acceptable.
#39
Jan 09th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thats sound fair enough, but remember the only valid option to be independient is to ask nicely to Argentina, the real owners of the land you lot outlaw people are squatting, thats a 100% fact, ask UN if they accept your referendum ? Be serious.
:-)
so far
Jan 09th, 2014 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you think that 73% of the vote on the Telegraph were from Brits that's fine.
If you think the vote in the Telegraph is a true representation of British Public opinion, that is also fine.
That would mean that you also believe that 3 out of 4 Brits think you should have the Islands.
Democracy being what it is, you should have them very soon.
I would caution against your expectations, disappointment is often very hard to cope with.
Still. hope springs eternal and in your case, your hope is eternal.
@44
Jan 09th, 2014 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UN do accept the referendum - that's self determination. Do you ask the UN to accept Argentinian (or UK) elections? No. Does the UN have to be asked to accept a vote on Scottish independence? No.
Ask nicely to Argentina, the real owners of the land you lot outlaw people are squatting
Jan 09th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If one believes this truly,
Then one also believes that Argentineans are squatting on the very land it stole l from the original Indians. That lived there.
.
So, you lot represent no nation at all then...
Jan 09th, 2014 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not Britain. It's not even England.
It's... you lot.
Stevie
Jan 09th, 2014 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You represent retard racists with delusions of grandeur......well done.
No he's a Utopianist. He thinks. believes and wants to live in a world that can and will not ever exist. ever. Shame really, I would advise him to find a donkey, a suit of armour and lance, a side kick and a windmill to challenge. Meanwhile the rest of us in the real world will get on with our lives the best we can.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A bunch of Ingleses and Inglés wannabes expressing their fascist views on an internet thread. Backed by no one... This site lost some appeal, that's no competition...
Jan 09th, 2014 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why is it that these Latins refuse, nay deny, that we are not all Ingleses.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hmm, divide and conquer I suppose, phftt, aint gonna work, should have listened to the Romans.
Lovely roads by the way!
America is not the West. We are very different from western. Do you see what happens to the Falklands? Alone, proud of its westernization.
Jan 09th, 2014 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remember, we live on planet Earth. The planet Earth has five continents, America, Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania.
There is not a land called West!
As we admire England, Falkland is American, not English or British.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVadY5rlfV0&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
@51
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0YOU HAVE THE GALL TO CALL THE ENGLISH FASCISTS, YOU ARE HAVING A LAUGH> WE BEAT THEM FAIR AND SQUARE. NO FASCISTS IN THE UK, THEY ALL FLED TO ARGENTINA WHERE THEY WERE WELCOMED WITH OPEN ARMS< OR HAVE I GOT HISTORY WRONG?
If you are trying to say. live and let live and let us all get on together to the benefit of each other?
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shit man! sounds great to me. I am all for it.
@ reality shit
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shit man is you!!
Geoff
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0You got history wrong.
And caps lock on.
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0golfcronie is Geoff?
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, i do not believe.
Thank you, Brasileiro. I don't even look at their names anymore...
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0But I did find it a bit odd that Geoff would loose temper and rant like that...
Here, the surveys spare them. The Malvinas Argentines Islands are Argentine by legal , historical and geographical issues regardless of what people may think , especially those morons that live - temporarily - in the islands.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Foreign Office said: “We are aware of the appointment of Daniel Filmus, but this does not affect our position nor the position of the Falkland Islands people, who voted to remain British by 99.8% in last year’s referendum.“
There are not a ”People“ of the Malvinas Islands, and there is not care what occasional okupas want. Bad question: ”Do you want to remain a British overseas territory?“. The territories do not speak.
”The UK has no doubt about its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands...”
Could you for once in your fucking life British government does explain why you not doubt?. Doing so may convince us ....
You are ever welcome, Stevie. Uruguay's brother!
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear, finally got a post removed, felt good writing it though.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seems that the naughty self abusing penile massager did not have the where with all to realise when someone was agreeing with him.
One second do not represent the eternity. Sorry.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:24 am - Link - Report abuse 02014 and the Falklands STILL aren't part of Argentina.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is bad. Falklands are not part of anything. One iceberg alone in the Ocean.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 044 so_far
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0We don't have to ask you a goddam thing.
Educate yourself about the UN sanctioned options for non- self- governing territories. None of them involve contact of any kind with a hostile neighbouring country.
61 José Malvinero
No-one's going to answer you until you learn to keep a civil tongue in your head.
When you call us 'morons' and 'occasional okupas', it doesn't impress anyone, because it clearly isn't true. Why don't you either learn to communicate like a rational sensible human being, or just go away and find some little pals who all think the way you do.
Remember, we live on planet Earth. The planet Earth has five continents, America, Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is not a land called West!
As we admire England, Falkland is American, not English or British.
Brasileiro, you are Correct, but to be official, there are SIX continents, you forgot Antartica :).
Now that he EU claims the falklands/Malvinas Islands, those ugly people there should more taxes, which Europe needs for more banker bailouts.
The west is collection of nations not a physical location you idiots.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also there's no such continent as Oceania. Just the continent of Australia. Oceania is a REGION. Like Latin America is a region and not a continent.
Six continents: Africa, Eurasia, North America, South America, Antarctica and Australia.
Here's a strange thing: that Barney Henderson the author of the Telegraph article and poll, would previously have published an article hilighting the hijacking of a similar poll regarding Gibraltar i.e. he knew the risks and went ahead anyway and then did not report on the similar actions of the Argies?!
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/gibraltar/10420900/Spanish-ministry-of-defence-staff-vote-thousands-of-times-in-Gibraltar-poll.html
@70 Boovis
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes exactly, and what stirs up controversy more than a poll that goes against what the readers think and that maybe blows a little smoke up the ass of the FCO? The Telegraph knew what they they doing,
@61 Jose
I love the inconsistency of your post - you say that if the UK government explained why they are confident of their sovereignty it “may convince you” having stated at the start of the post that the islands were Argentine “regardless what people may think”.
As for your belief that the islands are legally Argentine, if that was true your country would take it to the ICJ. They haven't, they won't, you are being lied too.
@71: additionally, if the islands were Argie, the UN wouldn't have demanded they leave the islands in '82.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@15
Jan 10th, 2014 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can find these quotations all over the Internet, but what is less easy to find is the reasoning behind them. In that respect, either there is some hideous secret nobody knows about, or it is just the usual questions that have been debated endlessly and exhaustively on here and elsewhere and which have failed to reveal any aspect of the Argentine claim that can stand up to close examination.
In any event, the dispute today is not about who had the bet claim in 1833, it is about who has the best claim in 2014. And in this respect the world has moved on since 1833 and international law post WWII, to which Argentina has fully subscribed, is as clear as a bell on the matter. Meanwhile, whatever claim Argentina a thinks it may once has had has been vacated by the 1982 invasion and Argebntine behaviour since.
But the truly remarkable aspect is the degree to which Malvinistas cling so avidly and desperately to the status of victim, in the face of overwhelmingly evidence to the contrary, and to the extent of force-feeding the mythology to children as young as 2.
That demeans and makes fools of you all.
Who cares what some British newspaper, looking for sales says?
Jan 10th, 2014 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0As has been pointed out, the poll was probably hi-jacked by frustrated malvinistas anyway.
lf you malvinistas feel so sure of your ridiculous “claims”, then take them, with your “evidence”to the ICJ.
Otherwise just shut up, stop whining & go away.
You're becoming a silly nuisance, much like a blowfly(& about as relevant).
Take note, José. when do you intend to vacate Patagonia & return it to the Native peoples?, okupus!
English are okupas.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0And the world is sick of them.
Visit England should spend more time figuring out how to improve the image of their own people instead of amplifying their own arrogance.
...which is why the UK passport is one of the most accepted i.e. least visa restrictions and also why it has one of the highest immigration and tourist rates? And, please, before you accuse anyone of occupying anything, look at the European dominated South America and think again. Hypocrite.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Okupa
Jan 10th, 2014 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Most accepted what?
Your restrictions when travelling is not your passport, it's your okupa mentality. You lot are invasive.
What a badly written article - the findings of the poll simply don't make sesne. And what is this? “a clear majority, almost double, of the voters”?? How can you have “double of the voters”!!!! It is about time that Merconews employs better proof-readers before publishing its articles.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Racist turd Stevie
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0It appears your arrogance knows no bounds.....
Not only do you believe that your pathetic student project on wind turbines will revolutionise Uruguays energy problems...pmsl...hahahahahahaha
Not only do you believe that you have a new politik which noone has ever thought of or tried, but we are just waiting for an acne-ridden Uruguayian teenager to bring to the world...
you now believe that you ...SPEAK FOR THE RST OF THE WORLD.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaa pmsl again and again and again.
yep, thats right Stevie...and acne ridden uruguayian student on his mums internat does actually speak for 6-7 billion of the worlds people in his condemnation of a country FAR Superior to his own....hahahahahahaha
Please stop Stevie my sides ache....
you try and comment about our arrogance...look at your own, you complete penis!
you are funny Stevie, weird, beyond delusional, but hilariously funny...
“signed the rest of the world”...pmsl...hahahahahahahahahahaha
You are still superior to no one, Monkey.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Personally, you are having problems displacing a jellyfish...
I first started coming on mercopress threads about a year ago hoping to learn what the Falklands issue was all about. I knew the British side but current Argentine views were hard to come by.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0It very soon became obvious that the Argentines (and their supporters) knew nothing of history other than that coming from the 'Ministry of Thought' in Buenos Aires nor were they prepared to even have a reasonable argument without spewing forth racist crap (some Brits do too - it has to be acknowledged).
So after a year I am left with just four questions which I would like Argentines and their supporters to answer -
“do you really and honestly believe all the nonsense you write on here about the Falkland Islands”?.
“do you really and honestly believe that the world can be set back to what it was 200 years ago ”?
“Do you really and honestly believe that the Falkland Islanders are some sort of 'untermenchen' who have no rights”?
“Do you really and honestly believe that the rest of the world supports you”?
Please don't just answer 'yes' and 'no' but give 'sensible' reasons without repetition of your alternate view of history.
#15
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ ”i love brits and his coherence, later they wonder why 99,9% of earth hate them“ ”
I must admit that I was surprised at your no doubt firmly believed point of view in this case.
World population 73, 000,000,000 x 0.1% = 73,000,000,
Take away UK population OF 63, 000,000 leaves 10, 000, 000 of the rest of the world's population who do not hate us.
Combined population of Australia, Canada and New Zealand is
63 000 000. I am presuming that these countries, by links of blood, look more favourably on the UK than the rest of the world.
So, by your figures, 53 million Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders must hate the UK.
I can't say I had noticed this.
Of course, I am forgetting the ARGIE speak of “ the whole world agrees with us” any time you make a pronouncement.
So, by the gross inaccuracy of your post, I must conclude that any of your posts contain nothing of value or truth, but only expound your own twisted rhetoric.
Stevie
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny, you know write “Personally”....just a few posts ago you were writing on behalf of 7 billion people..
so which is it Stevie...are you voicing the ignorant rants of a racist, acne-ridden Uruguayian virgin on his mums computer....or are you the self-appointed voice of the worlds population?
Have you done a pathetic student project on wind power that nobody has ever read, let alone taken seriously....or have you unlicked the solution to the worlds energy problems.
Have you got no clue about economics and world politics, but a racist ignorant big mouth....or have you discovered and invented a revolutionary new politic for the world to thank you for?
Which are closer to reality Stevie?
I fear that you have slightly overvoiced your position haven't you sonny? Made yourself look a cock...haven't you Stevie?
Never mind, made me cry with laughter.
So now we have established that you are a self-opinionated, gobshitte fantasist...we can all laugh at you.....Poor Stevie.
Come on “speak for the world” again......hahahahahahahahaha
Laugh.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like the jellyfish you are.
Blob blob.
Blob.
Jellyfish is fine Stevie....better than delusional racist who thinks he “speaks for the world” has solved the “worlds energy problems” and “has invented a new politics untired anywhere in the world”.....
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0your insult is just another Stevie fantasy...mine is based on your posts...your arrogance, your jumped up acne-ridden racist rants....
look at yourself stevie...how pathetic you are....hahahahahahahahaha
@84
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very eloquent Stevie, you must be top of your class, LOL
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“He” has to be solely a propaganda minister, since there is no portfolio recognised outside his pencil-sharpening job.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@87
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With a name like Stevie, you must be of European extract,so why are you so anti Europe? You, I believe said you come from Uraguay, not with a name Stevie, I think you are British masquerading as a Uraguayo. Each to their own eh!
With a name like golfcronie, your pain is palpable.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevensen, Golfcronie Stevensen...
Stevie
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet again you speak of something you know nothing about, pretending to be speaking for someone other than the spotty delusional racist virgin that you are.
I certainly have never been “sodomized” by my government, and the tax payers money used to bail out the handful of banks which over-stretched their loan book, is and will be mostly recovered.
However, this is irrelevant, as the standard of living in the UK, the welfare state, GDP per capita and all othe rmetrics show us “vastly superior” to anything in Latam, and far from “strugglingling to compete”, we actually compete very well in the global market place.
Of course real data, real metrics, real standard of living, are important in Stevie-world...a delusional racist fantasy.
We have discussed previously about the UK military “killing women and children”...another soundbite from “spotty Steve”.
When women and children were actually dying in the Phillipines before Christmas, I saw the British military there, with humanitarian aid, saving actual lives...where was Uruguay Stevie...humiliating that those you loathe are ready, willing and able to actually do more than rant impotently on the internet...like you.
poor Stevie...all the actual fact show you are clueless...but you astounding over-opinioated stance...your view that your own Nobel Prize is just around the corner...will always fail you.
However, one more time Stevie...“speak for the world”....LOL...you complete tool.
Another 4 year old shot and killed by NATO troops in Afghanistan.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's all over the news.
You think it's ok to mix human sid with murdering of kids?
And you call me delusional.
Give it your best push and go hunt in other waters, you are fooling no one.
boys and girls,,
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0all these swear words , insults , abuse,
and according to the latest swear word poll,
you argies win hands down,
does that make you feel better , nicer , happier ,
mind you losers have to have an edge,
and you guys certainly swear the swear,
but you still cant walk the walk.
and the islands are still British..lol.
@92
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, have a sense of proportion here, regrettable that a child gets killed ( we all feel the same ) but think that in the Phillipines at least the wests military was helping, not like Uruguay, what have they ever done to better relations around the world. I await your responce with bated breath, although will not wait long , I have a good life away from the internet.
And what about that 10 year old child, that was stopped just in time,
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0with enough explosives to blow a lot of people into jigsaw puzzles,
would that have been ok.
92 it seems tends to side with the immoral,..
@ 2 paulcedron
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0let me help you finish your text:
“it seems the readers of the telegraph are pretty intelligent then.
sadly we cannot say the same about mercopress readers, excepting a few” none of whom are Argentine.
3 hours since I asked my '4 questions' but no response from any Argentine (or proxy thereof) - what a surprise.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you haven't responded to my questions I can only assume that:-
No, you don't really and honestly believe all the nonsense you write on here about the Falkland Islands.
No, you don't really and honestly believe that the world can be set back to what it was 200 years ago.
No, you don't really and honestly believe that the Falkland Islanders are some sort of 'untermenchen' who have no rights.
No, you don't really and honestly believe that the rest of the world supports you.
So why say it then?
@90
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do not understand your post , could you please say it in the English Language.
#92
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Was it confirmed that they were UK troops who shot the 4 year old ?
Or, in your twisted world everything that happens out there MUST be the UK's fault.
Correction... I have just read the article. It seems that they were US forces. Even YOU cannot believe that 4 year old children are deliberately shot as policy.
It must be a great disappointment to you that the UK were not involved in this one as it seems to be your mantra that every day in life the UK goes out of it's way looking for women and children to kill. Whether we are involved or not IT DOESN'T MATTER TO YOU.
You peddle the same lying line every time you post.
Internet warrior sorting out his version of the world's problems -all caused by the UK, WHILE TOO SCARED TO GO BACK TO HIS OWN COUNTRY. Not really commanding of any respect, are you ?
Every now and then some enthusiastic Argentine repeats a number of quotes taken completely out of context, including the ones of Wellington, Spicer, Campbell, Robertson, Troutbeck and Fitzmaurice.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A number of times some of us have wasted time showing how faulty these cherry-picked quotes are.
Let's see if you have even the slightest knowledge of the subject you write about: quote 10 (ten) lines from the text before your above quotes, and 10 (ten) lines after.
Explain what was the single source for Spicer's, Campbell's, Robertson's, Troutbeck's and Fitzmaurice's quotes.
Also this idiotic nonsense: “after all...i need to recognise that almost 74 % brits have dignity.”
Show that the internet poll, open to the entire world, has only British respondents.
so_far Einstein continues “you should continuing reading my friend....knowledge, justice and truth is the basis for behave properly in front of the civilized world.”
Take your own advice: read and acquire at leat a minimal knowledge of the subject before you waste more space, which could be used for something useful.
Whilst I agree that children dying in a warzone is very sad, the merits of the UK/US military intervention in Afghanistan are open for debate.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the one hand we have your opinion. That of a racist, spotty, ignorant and delusional Uruguayian student, who is clueless to world affairs and thinks he is a Nobel Laureate in the making.
Or on the other hand we have the democratically elected leader of Afghanistan who both welcomes and supports UK/US assistance in eliminating terrorism in his country.
Again, it is clear your delusion self worth...where you feel you have great value of opinion than the democratic leader of the country in question. Poor Stevie.
However, back to humanitarian aid. Why does Uruguay sit on its hands? Why do they never get involved. WHY ARE YOU HAPPY TO WATCH WOMEN AND CHILDREN DYING?
Is it perhaps that you much hated UK/US military are actually doing something that your racist impotent internet rants cant add up?
You are a moron Stevie, a deluded racist impotent moron.
However, your college report on wind turbines was first class, and your acne will clear up. Maybe one day a girlfriend...or perhaps a boyfriend? Careful though Stevie...because it is doubtful their opinion of you will ever be as high as you hold of yourself.....
“my politics are untried anywhere in the world, but are fantastic and will lead to peace and prosperity for all”.....pmsl Stevie....you are a one...!!!
Still fishing n the same pond, I see.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By all means, continue...
A 4 year old, bloody hell you lot....
What is even more disgusting is Stevie is practically gleeful that he has a current news article that supports his insane rantings.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's almost like he thinks it was deliberate.
You are one disgusting guy Steve
One disgusting guy.
I understand you may think that, as I come from a country that does not blatantly kill children...
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it's deliberately, no one forces your death squads to kill 4 year olds. No one forces them to come up with useless excuses.
@ Stevie ,Ofcourse strapping a bomb to an 8 or 10 year old child in Afghanistan is quite OK also you idiot
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0104. Which country do you come from today? A NATO country.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are mentally unbalanced and hate yourself so much you just spew bile without regard to reality.
Hey Stevie baby how did you feel when Argentines were throwing Argentines (and French Nuns) from military aircraft or was that just a popular pass time in Argentina
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tory Telegraph poll:
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Should the Falkland Islands be British or Argentinian ?
British------ 24.03 % (6,353 votes)
Argentienan ---- 73.82% (19,514 votes)
Shared sovereignty --------- 2.14 % (567 votes)
Not even in Britain lol
@104
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie you jellyfish
BLOB
BLOB
BLOB
Get it?
Marcos, The UK as taken that poll so serious steps are being taken to hand the Falklands Islands to Argentina in the next week
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#109 As I responded in the other thread, this poll was advertised in the Argentine media and was accessible to everyone.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Given how frequently Argentine politicians whip the population into a nationalist frenzy over the Falklands and how the lies are disgustingly spread to school children does it really surprise you that thousands of Argentine's went and voted?
I really do feel sorry for you, the one aim of your existence appears to be forever out of reach.
You really do?
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Awwww....
Lets see a breakdown of voters' nationalities... I imagine roughly 73% Argentina and 24% British... just an educated guess.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentines often being described by their neighbours as Thieves and Liars is similar to what happened in Spain with regards to a Gibraltar poll
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/gibraltar/10420900/Spanish-ministry-of-defence-staff-vote-thousands-of-times-in-Gibraltar-poll.html
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE ARGENTINES WOULD DO THE SAME????
@113
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh come ,come let's be serious. I imagine the 24% were Argies, but didn't want the poll to reflect too badly on them , or be found out.
@darragh
Jan 10th, 2014 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As none of our Argentine posters have answered you, I will attempt to try. Having read numerous posts on here from the Malvinistas, there are only two I remember as being truthful. the first came from “Think” and the second one came from “Malvinese1833”.
Think gleefully informed us that it is in the “Argentine National Archives” that 59 people were onboard the SS Sarandi that left the islands on january 6th 1833.
He informed us that it is in the full knowledge of the Argentine government that 55 of these people had arrived on the islands for the first time in November 1832, and the remaining four left voluntarily.
It is therefore total folly and complete lies, and argument that britian “expelled a population”, “a settlement” or indeed “Argentine authorities”.
The Argentine know this, and have lied to their own people. Thanks Think.
Malvinese1833 was more clear as tot why Argentines believe the islands are “theirs”. I cant rememeber his exact quote, but I will paraphrase:
“it is a feeling, a sense, in all all Argentines, that we will not be complete, without our Malvinas”.
This is perhaps the most telling and sad quote of the year or som I have read these boards:
Argentines have been force fed Malvinas lies for decades, fed to them as babies that the islands were “usurped”...(which Think points out they is untrue), force fed a false enemy and made to believe in a “nationalistic feeling” that you are not Argenitne unless you covet the Falklands.
This is why Axels view that the case should be taken to the ICJ is unworkable. The level of indoctrination is such that a ruling against them would change nothing...just as a military defeat in 1982 changed nothing.
The imagined right to the Falklands was invented by Argentine propaganda and indoctrination, the only way to undo it is 100 years of reverse therapy, where Argentines are taught the lies and corruption of the Peronist/Kirchnerites.
@116
Jan 10th, 2014 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They can't possibly go to the ICJ. Imagine the complete national psychological meltdown there would be if and when they lost.
#108
Jan 10th, 2014 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0British------ 24.03 % (6,353 votes)
Argentienan ---- 73.82% (19,514 votes)
Shared sovereignty --------- 2.14 % (567 votes)
These figures detail the number who v0ted
19154 Argentinians voted for Argentina
6353 British voted for Britain
567 indeterminate nationality
@118
Jan 10th, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Blimey, who would have thought it, pity that 99.99% of FALKLANDERS wanted to remain a BRITISH OVERSEAS TERRITORY then.
73% or ( 2250 ) British votes for
26.99% (749 ) Chileans votes for
0.01% ( 1 ) Argentinian was undecided, and fled the country ( BETTS was his name I think )
Marcos and Stevie have been predicting riots in the UK, but.... they wont be happening just yet..... http://newsthump.com/2014/01/09/duggan-rioters-keen-to-wait-until-new-televisions-in-stock/
Jan 10th, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Until Currys have their new stock and it warms up a bit,riots are off!
@ 102 Stevie
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A 4 year old, bloody hell you lot....”
A 4 year old, who voted in the Telegraph poll?
Or are you on one of your usual 'refuse to take my medication' trips, confusing the subject of the article with something quite different? - Whataboutism.
In the latter nutcase Stevie, let's Whataboute to northern Argentina.
Meet Aixa Cano, 5, who has hairy moles all over her body that doctors can't explain, sits on a stoop outside her home in Avia Terai, in Chaco province, Argentina. In Chaco, children are four times more likely to be born with devastating birth defects since biotechnology dramatically expanded farming in Argentina. http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/Agro_2013/bp17.JPG
Hence it's ok to shoot 4-year old kids in Afghanistan, you mean...?
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wonderful to see idiot chicken-pox-or-pasta-ambassador Castro say that British public opinion is 'changing'.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even Filmus dismisses online malvinas poll.
No dear Birdbrain-Stevie, but the subject is the Telegraph poll, not throwing thousands of people out of airplanes into Rio de la Plata and the Atlantic nor letting war criminals adopt children of tortured and murdered women nor Afghanistan (which is in Asia, not in the UK or Argentina ).
And what has an Argentine girls with moles to do with that?
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@38 I'd call you a wanker. Except that I doubt you have the intelligence to rub your hand back and forth. Perhaps you prefer squatting on a dildo?
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@44 Here's a serious point. What if we pop over and blow your brains out? Or, looking for something more intelligent, fire a harpoon up your arse?
@48 You couldn't represent an amoeba.
@51 Cretin.
@53 Actually, there are seven regions considered to be continents. Divot. No-one wanted to be on the same one as you lot.
@61 Do you know nothing about your cesspit? Malvinas is in Cordoba. You can have it. But we can pop over and show you how to shit in it. If you'd like.
@64 One Brazilian fag-end doesn't represent anything. Noticed how Britain is so much better than your shit-hole?
@68 Seems that you should be calling yourself Boo Boo. The world's smallest DOG!
@80 EVERYTHING is superior to you, Stevie!
@92 I reckon we should be shooting them before they can stand up. Have you got a valid, acceptable by an intelligent (non-latino) individual, for being allowed to breathe?
@102, 104 Actually, you're pretty good at murdering people. Have a word with your “president”. Top man. Political assassinations a speciality.
@108 Piss off, tosspot!
@122 Rather shoot you!
@123
Jan 10th, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie likes to bring every subject back to the war in Afghanistan. He is a bit thick you see.
However, despite having the IQ of an average dog turd, Stevie is still waiting for his Nobel prize for Physics, for his college project on wind turbines, and a Nobel prize for both Peace and Economics for his brand new political movement.
Stevie also believes he speaks for “the whole world”, whereas he has never left Latam, and his only experience of women are those “special websites” he looks at when his mum goes out.
Never mind Stevie....remind me, what was Uruguays response when the horrific news stories of the deaths of women and children in the Philippines broke....??
Oh yes, jack shit, indifference and a quick scout of their islands to see if you could invent a 19th century claim
conq wet his bed again...
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why take it out on us, conq? Why on us?
Accept the facts of your life and make the most of it.
A coffin, for example, you know, something useful and easy to make...
Stevie must be kinky if he enjoys coming to this forum daily to get verbally slapped around
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Caveman behaviour isn't kinky, Andy.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You own women have been trying to make you understand for ages...
122
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why does one hate the British so much?
Did you have a bad encounter?
Did they hurt a relative?
Steal from you perhaps,
Or was this hatred rammed into you at school.
.
@Stevie,No doubt your dwellings where you live are no better than a cave you moron
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Timberhead will probably mention the Telegraph poll at the next C24 meting. Lol.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it not true that sometime in your past, the argentine government asked to be part of the great British Empire,
Jan 10th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And was turned down,
Is this why you all hate us,
Your envious and jealous of us..lol
just a thought.
Of course Stevie is jealous, but for a really odd reason.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0About 300-400 years ago the British and the Spanish fought for global supremacy. There were rival Empires, rival monarchies, rival economies.
For everyone in Britain, any competition with Spain ended in about 1810 with the Spanish capitulation to Napoleon, the collapse of the Spanish Empire, and Britains victory at Waterloo, the Industrial advances throughout the Victorian age, and most notably two very bloody world wars.
To us, the Spanish or Latino world disappeared from our minds as anything significant. In fact, Gibraltar aside, our relationship with our Southern European partners has never been stronger.
But in poor Stevies pea-brain, the long dead rivalry lives on...that is why an American accident in Afghanistan he calls “you lot”...despite the fact that the USA is no more “us lot” than “his lot”
His racism eats him alive. he knows that the Latinos have failed in South America, he knows that in 500 years with a new continent, natural wealth and resources...all they have managed is one corrupt failed government after another military coup...in fact even now, the only relatively successful countries are Brazil (Portuguese) and Chile (relatively sane) as his country and it's master Argentina default, lie and swindle.
Can you imagine the 300 year old jealousy eating his tiny brain alive.
His impotence, his ignorance, his racism, and his pathetic misplaced arrogance on show daily for us to laugh at.
Stevies misplaced personal arrogance pictures himself as a world leading engineer, political thinker and philosopher....in reality he is a useless turd.
His nationalistic arrogance sees a powerful Latino brotherhood of global significance....it is as misplaced as his personal ego.
Never mind Stevie....we love you...you are frisking hilarious.
Ambassador Alicia Castro has said that the British public is changing their minds regarding the FALKLANDS after the Telegraph poll.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comments please.
Alicia Castro
Jan 10th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0is as brain dead as her deluded leader,
perhaps if the telegraph told them to put their heads in the oven, for the glory of Argentina, they would believe that as well .lolo
The malvinistas can believe what they want to believe.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lt doesn't change a thing.
They still have no right to the Falklands & no rights in the Falklands.
We completely reject Argentina's ridiculous “claims”.
We completely reject “shared sovereignty”.
Suck it up Argentina.
@136
Jan 10th, 2014 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More than likely all the votes were a block vote coming from the Argentine Embassy. Will probably take a few weeks until her nails grow again.
@ 124 Stevie
Jan 10th, 2014 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And what has an Argentine girls with moles to do with that?”
She is an example of Whataboutism which you use all the time - avoid the subject of the article and write about e.g. a child in Afghanistan. What has an Afghan child to do with a poll in Daily Telegraph?
We should stop teasing them, the Telegraph would have known that the Argentines would cheat in any on-line poll.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But then, l guess its helpful to know what the idiots think.
Two points about the Telegraph poll.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. The poll should have asked...
Should the Falkland Islands should be...
*British
*Argentine
*Shared
*An Independent Nation
Independence is an option which many believe will end the sovereignty debate FOREVER. The Falkland Islands Government are already doing a great job of running their own islands and only rely on the UK for defence.
2. When is the Telegraph going to understand that if you have an online poll about the FI open to anyone, it will be swamped by RG voters. This is not the first time...
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/03/05/daily-telegraph-readers-poll-says-falklands-should-be-returned-to-argentina
@axel arg
I've read your posts over the years and it's pretty clear to me that you are in denial, you know deep down that the Falkland Islanders have the right to determine their own future. The same basic rights as anyone else deserves after 180 years.
Tell me what YOU think would be a fair be a solution?
“According to an active online poll released in the British newspaper “The Daily Telegraph”, a clear majority, almost double, of the voters affirmed that the Falklands Islands should be under Argentina’s sovereignty.”
Jan 10th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Therefore if the Daily Telegraph did a poll saying that the UK should have sovereignty over Patagonia and the result was over 50% Yes to UK ownership of Patagonia, then the UK get Patagonia, right?
At the end of the day,it makes no differences to what ends what argentina will do to trick and dodging and try and con thier ways to try and convince the world that they own the islands.Well until or unless the falkland islanders say any different the argentine goverment will never get the islands.,not this century or the next.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aaaahhhhhh and where would we be without the “The Telegraph”??? Always first and coming second, always with it's finger firmly on the pulse of British society.....NOT!!!
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Arn't the papers suppost to have like a quality control check, you know,so that someone will say “Does this make sense?” That, obviously, only ever happens at other papers ( The Sun excepted of course ).
After the phone hacking scandal, I would have thought that the press would want everyone to start taking them seriously.... There again, it just shows you how wrong you can be, right??
@ 142 A large proportion of the original Patagonian settlers origins in the UK, thus UK should demand Patagonia - poll or no poll - and go to war over their rightful possession, same as Argentina did in 1982.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Should the Falkland Islands be British or Argentinian? (Las Malvinas deberían ser Argentinas o Británicas?) (Poll Closed)
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0British (Británicas) 24.03% (6,353 votes)
Argentinian (Argentinas) 73.82% (19,514 votes)
Shared sovereignty (Soberanía compartida) 2.14% (567 votes)
Do not like the Tory Telegraph?
Nooo problem..
The Guardian
“People sometimes ask me why Argentinians make such an endless fuss about the islands they call Las Malvinas. The answer is simple. The Falklands belong to Argentina. They just happen to have been seized, occupied, populated and defended by Britain. Because Argentina's claim is perfectly valid..”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/apr/02/comment.falklands
Here we are 11 hours later and still no Argentine (or Argentine sympathiser) has answered the four questions I asked at post 81.
Jan 10th, 2014 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not surprised but disappointed that they do not have the courage of their convictions. Either that or they are far more interested in their xenophobia.
So a newspaper poll, which is uncontrolled, open to anyone with internet access is being used as some sort of justification to further an Argentine sovereignty claim. However a referendum of those directly affected, praised by international electrol monitors as fair and free was down played at every opportunity and declared as unlawful by the same people trumpeting the newspaper poll.
Jan 11th, 2014 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0All very Argentinian .
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 11th, 2014 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0I read the Daily Telegraph everyday and I have never heard of this “Poll”. Anyone who knows anything abut the Daily Telegraph and their readership will know that their support of the rights of the Falklanders would be rock solid. The only poll that really counts is that already taken in the referendum last year. Any number of people can vote in an online poll. So what.
Jan 11th, 2014 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0149 José Malvinero (#)
Jan 11th, 2014 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jan 11th, 2014 - 02:38 am
Sounds like a threat to me.
#147
Jan 11th, 2014 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Darragh, you asked for SENSIBLE reasons. I don't think there is a word for this in their vocabulary so you have them flummoxed !
Didn't we go through this with the Telegraph once before or is this the same event regurgitated? Anyway, everyone knows there is a complete lack of credibility to the story.
Jan 11th, 2014 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile, back to reality, it was lovely to see that huge Princess ship gliding into place in Stanley's outer harbour this morning. I doubt it was hardly much more than a week ago when I saw her there last. Without checking the actual figures I would estimate that there's been cruise ships in more days than not since Christmas.
$$$$$$$$$
The question should have read:
Jan 11th, 2014 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 01) do you believe that the Falkland Islanders have the right to determine their own futures as enshrined in the UN Charter
Or
2) do you believe they should become, against their will, a colony of a third world facist failed state, who in living memory used them as a human shield and indiscriminately planted unmapped minefields around their homes.
I know it's a toughie.....
154 Monkeymagic
Jan 11th, 2014 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine response to your fine suggestions:
1) They are not a people. And anyway, what about the Chagos Islanders? The UK doesn't care about them.
2) That wasn't us. That was the Junta.Besides, look at all of the women and children the UK are still killing in Afghanistan?
Yawn!
They already are a colony of a fascist state...
Jan 11th, 2014 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Surprise surprise - haven't been here for a while but can see nothing's changed with all the usual mercopress morons in deluded denial about anything that suggests the Malvinas should go back to Argentina which of course will happen at some point. So now the British people don't want them and we know behind the scenes in the British political establishment there are moves to get out of there but hey let's not confuse the facts with the deluded fantasies of most of the posters on this site.
Jan 11th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0... yet another entry from Stevie in the World Hyperbole Championships ... if only persistence outweighed accuracy ..
Jan 11th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol.....
Jan 11th, 2014 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinas real response should be:
Why in 180 years have we only been able to persuade one islander (Alex Betts) of the merits of being Argwntine?
They only need to persuade 1500 or so...yet they completely fail to do so.
What is so abhorrent about Argentina that their close neighbours distrust them so?
Imagine if the UK desperately, desperately wanted the Faroe Islands (we don't)
What would our strategy be?
Make up some 200 year old bullshit?
Invade and get our arses kicked by Denmark, then blame someone else?
Blockade them and encourage the EU to never trade with them?
Or
Try and build a relationship
Treat them with respect
Open mutually beneficial trade and business
Integrate them with free education and transport links
Encourage travel and leisure activities
Maybe after a few decades, they'd see that being British was what they would benefit most from?
Of course Britain doesn't want the Faroe islands (despite, as CFK says, a child of 3 could see they are closest to Britain).....but Argentine is desperate to have “their Malvinas” but the stupid fekkers have done exactly the opposite of what might actually have worked,
The day the islanders say they want to be Argentine, is the day that Argentina gets sovereignty.
Is that day nearer or further because of CFK and Tinpot?
154 Monkeymagic (#)
Jan 11th, 2014 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jan 11th, 2014 - 11:36 am
Don't forget the booby trapped school rooms.
@157
Jan 11th, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol...el Diego...funniest post of the thread...funniest since Stevie claimed he had the solution to Uruguays energy problems..if only they'd listen...PMSL.
26 hours later now and still no Argentine (or Argentine sympathiser) has answered the four questions I asked at post 81.
Jan 11th, 2014 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Such a shame they don't have the courage of their convictions but then what can you expect?
When this poll was being conducted, I tried several time to access the DT site (something which I do quite regularly), only to be confronted by a questionnaire which I have never seen before or since, which had to be completed before it would allow you access to the site to vote!
Jan 11th, 2014 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Needless to say I declined to answer and therefore couldn’t vote. Otherwise it would have been quite a different story, you can be sure.
@ 111 inthegutter
That being the case, what we would seem to have here is a poll of primarily Argentinians.
Which puts an entirely different complexion on the matter, to say the least.
159 Monkeymagic (#)
Jan 11th, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jan 11th, 2014 - 12:39 pm
The Faroe Islands are an interesting example because the British did occupy the islands during WW2 whilst Denmark was under occupation from Germany. The British built Vagar airport. As soon as the allies liberated Denmark and the war was over the British withdrew.
By Malvinista logic the British would have been perfectly within their rights to stay and claim the Faroe Islands for themselves. Afterall ,the British were there for 5 years and actually achieved something during their stay by modernising the infrastructure, apart from the building the airport they also upgraded and even built some roads.
What did the 'River Plate Rapists' achieve on the Falkland Islands in 1833? Rape and murder is what they achieved. They certainly didn't build any roads.
Just browsing and saw #162
Jan 11th, 2014 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so here goes.
“do you really and honestly believe all the nonsense you write on here about the Falkland Islands”?.
Yes.
“do you really and honestly believe that the world can be set back to what it was 200 years ago ”?
No.
“Do you really and honestly believe that the Falkland Islanders are some sort of 'untermenchen' who have no rights”?
No.
“Do you really and honestly believe that the rest of the world supports you”?
No. (however a large section does. and a still even larger section would if aware and well read up on the subject).
That was easy.
165 Vestige (#)
Jan 11th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jan 11th, 2014 - 05:05 pm
The ones that do not support you are well read enough to know the truth. Which is why they do not support you.
Those that do support you might change their minds if they were well read and really did know the truth. Most of them don't actually support you anyway. You and your pathetic foreign minister just say that they do if they set foot in Argentina. They usually nod politely not really understanding what the deuce you are banging on about.
Some will simply support you because they have an axe to grind and the truth would mean nothing to them in any case. Just as it means nothing to you.
“Do you really and honestly believe that the Falkland Islanders are some sort of 'untermenchen' who have no rights”?
No.”
You lie.
You do not believe that the Falkland Islanders have any rights at all to live in their own homes in their own country (Falkland Islands) on the their own terms. You do not believe that they have any right to develop their own economy and their own natural resources whilst everybody else in the world is. In fact the UN Secretary General categorically said that the Falkland Islanders also have all of the above rights but you don't and no Malvinista does. Why? Because you think that they are sub human. If you thought that they were fully human then you would leave them in peace. Support them and work with them. You know? Have a normal working relationship with them.
So you lie.
“do you really and honestly believe all the nonsense you write on here about the Falkland Islands”?.
Yes.”
Well at least you admit that you are talking nonsense so at least that is a start.
It seems that the 1833 year,
Jan 11th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is to be replace by the 1014 poll,
That will live in argy minds for infinity.
lets be honest here,
I bet they argies would vote to take over all of the British [ bots]
after all, is it not their destiny to rule the world ..lol
Vestige
Jan 11th, 2014 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think “the world” was asked in 2008 whether it supported Argentina, and the UNGA overwhelmingly voted to remove the words “where a sovereignty dispute does not exist” from a Resolution discussing self-determination of NSGTs.
The world also did not support Argentina in 1982, when the UNSC ordered Argwntina to withdraw from the Islands. (an order which Argentina ignored).
It is simple and non-controversial to support “talks” as a way to appease Argentine ministers, but I have seen scant support for Argentinas sovereignty claim outside of Latam (except by other states who are looking to land-grab despite the wishes of a population).
The world, of course 200 years ago, was different. In 1814 the Falkland Islands were unpopulated, with just two plaques claiming sovereignty for Spain and the UK. The most recent Spanish colony had left to Montevideo to fight the uprising in Buenos Aires.
So, the islands certainly weren't Argentine 200 years ago.
The islands might have become Argentine had the Vernet business developed. He certainly seemed keen by 1828 to pursue the idea, but by 1831 Vernet had scarpered, his business virtually failed, only a handful remained under the leadership of Matthew Brisbane (British). Doesn't sound like Argentine sovereignty then either.
So that leaves the period in 1832, when we can agree the islands were Argentine.
In November 1832, the SS Sarandi arrived with 50 crew and raised the UP flag (it is unclear whether the Brisbane settlement supported this), the crew then mutineed, murdered their Captain and raped his wife in front of their children, A proud month in Argentinas history.
This usurption ignored any “British rights”, and was a blatant act of 19th century colonialism.
2 months later the HMS Clio arrived, evicted the crew of the Sarandi without a shot being fired, and the Brisbane community remained.
Is this the history you believe the rest of the world is waiting to hear to support your claim?
Is to be replace by the 1014 poll//2014 poll--sorry.
Jan 11th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0still,
it will remain British , until they decide otherwise..
MONKEY MAGIC: As usuall, you can't be more pathetic, although i don't like wasting my time with such reactionary and mediocre people like you, however in your comments there are some points that i want to explain.
Jan 11th, 2014 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, you and some other ignorant forists like often accuse us of being indoctrinated by our official history since we are children, that's why let me tell you something.
If i believed in our mendacious official history, written by the most conservative sectors of our society, i would never investigate anything about this conflict, in fact, i would do what you and some other ignorant people like you do, i mean that i would believe only in our official history.
Anyway, as far as i'm concerned, i have always recognized that the case has strong and weak aspects for both nations, in fact, i have discussed about them in planty of opportunities in this forum.
However, you and some other mediocre people like you, have never criticised anything of the historic arguments of your empire in decadence, then, perhaps you should start wondering whether it's you the one who has been perfectly indoctrinated by your own official history.
Respecting the genocide against our originary people in 1880, started by a son of a bitch like julio roca, i can only tell you that despite that genocide, our constitution includes the rights and claims of our originary brothers, in article 17th of chapter 4th, in fact, some lands have already been restored to them, which is a true historic reparation, however the u. k. has never made any historic reparation for arg. for having deprived it from the islands in 1833. You can keep on making all your too partial analysis that you want, objetive facts are much more important than your lack of intellectual honesty, sorry.
STEVE-33-U. K: In my opinion a fair solution would be what was discussed in 1974 between both countries, which was based on a shared sovereignty.
@ poor axel arg wrote:
Jan 11th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“despite that genocide, our constitution includes the rights and claims of our originary brothers, in article 17th of chapter 4th, in fact, some lands have already been restored to them, which is a true historic reparation”
UN calls on Argentina to stop eviction of indigenous peoples from their lands
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/09/19/un-calls-on-argentina-to-stop-eviction-of-indigenous-peoples-from-their-lands
Indigenous children dying from hunger in food-exporting Argentina
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/09/19/un-calls-on-argentina-to-stop-eviction-of-indigenous-peoples-from-their-lands
Argentina's Silent Genocide : Indigenous People Condemned To Starvation & Disease
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/09/19/un-calls-on-argentina-to-stop-eviction-of-indigenous-peoples-from-their-lands
Well, ain't that just sooooooo nice of Argentina?
Axel
Jan 11th, 2014 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is your indoctrination and mediocre mind that leads you to believe that there are strong and weak arguments for both sides. It is your indoctrination and mediocre mind that leads you to believe that there are two sides.
There is only one side, the rights, the choices, the interests and wants of the islanders.
However, if your “joke of research” from a pathetic and childlike indoctrinated pea brain, believes that even in 1833 Argwntina had a strong case, then simply put...you are a moron. It is a made up claim based on 60 days and 50 murderers rapists and vagabonds in 1832. You are so foolish Axel.
“Some lands have been restored to them”.....oh Axel....you fool...
Britain needs make no reparation for 1833, as it deprived nobody of anything, it removed 54 murderers and rapists, who'd been on the islands less than 2 months. It owes you nothing.
However, if you want to talk reparations, you can pay reparations to the is,anders for the unmapped minefields you planted, the use of them as human shields, the defiling of their homes, and the loss of human life...caused by YOU.
Oh....sorry...reparations for a made up history in 1833 are far more relevant..in your mediocre and reactionary pea-brain.
Now Axel, about our Empire in decandance (both reactionary, mediocre and inflammatory tut tut pea-brain). Tell me axel.....why is the commonwealth so successful...the reason...because the reparations have been made, and nearly all the former colonies (perhaps Zimbabwe and Ireland ?? Aside) are long since over any historic poor treatment.
As far as a fair solution is concerned, it is quite simple . Any solution is the choice of the islanders. Not Britain, Not Argentina.
It seems the islanders distrust you Axel...you and your reactionary and mediocre pea-brain,
#170
Jan 12th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0“In my opinion a fair solution would be what was discussed in 1974 between both countries, which was based on a shared sovereignty.”
That is YOUR opinion but it is NOT shared by the inhabitants of the islands nor the UK govt. and their people.
Not much more to say on the subject.
Get your govt. to talk to the Falklanders....it is THEIR decision
You are right, the UK people believes the Islands are Argentine. Not that it matters what they believe, but...
Jan 12th, 2014 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0#174
Jan 12th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your evidence for this is ?
A UK poll...?
Jan 12th, 2014 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why is it you lot are so preoccupied with us supplying evidence on every statement, when your own arguments are based on hearsays, rumours, Clarín, el País and own fabricated realities?
Not that it bothers me, I merely find it odd...
darragh, 81, 99, etc.
Jan 12th, 2014 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, I've discussed this in English and Spanish on El Clarín and La Nación and elsewhere. I don't actually think the Argentines truly believe any of the things they say: they generally know that no Argentine population was expelled, that they would have no case in the ICJ, that Louis Vernet agreed with the British ambassador that his colony would be British in order to get permission to set it up, and most of all, that Argentina has never had the power to make any claim on the Falklands over the British claim.
It's essentially about vanity, and about feeling powerless. The danger is, that like the Germans in the 1940s, the feeling of powerlessness might one day cause them to do something totally deranged against some easy target.
It is difficult to think of something that would satisfy their vanity, without requiring the elimination of one of their smaller neighbours.
#176
Jan 12th, 2014 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An UK poll ? Are you really so disingenuous to believe that the result of this “poll” reflects the opinion of the British people ?
It was advertised in the BA Herald ! The glaringly obvious is that the poll was flooded by Argentinian pollsters. The average “Brit.” would not waste his/her time confirming that they know that the Falkands are NOT Argentinian.
I cannot comment on the broad sweep of your rhetoric but on the matter of the Falklands, Argentina's claim is extremely weak - disseminating lies as facts..
And your evidence is?
Jan 12th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie
Jan 12th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It doesn't matter if the Telegraph poll was an accurate show of what the UK populous believes (it clearly isn't, but wouldn't matter anyway).
The sovereignty of the Falklands is owned by the population of the Falklands.
This is not Britains position, Argentinas position or the made up events of 1833.
It is enshrined in the UN Charter, and supported by every single UN Resolution.
The Falkland Islanders wish, by a 99.98% majority to remain a British Overseas Territory.
if Britain, as it's right, said to the islanders that we no longer wanted them, that would be our choice, if we as Britain said we think it would be in their best interests to be a colony of Argentina...that is also our choice...the first the islands would have to accept, the second...they would tell us to poke it.
I have a better solution.
We hear a lot of racist shit from you Stevie, about the Americas for Americans. Simple Solution.
The Falkland Islands can become an Overseas Territory of Canada.
Then the Americas is run by Americans,
the Queen can still be head of state, the commonwealth office can run the foreign affairs, and Britain can still provide the defence.
Perfect solution, can't say fairer that that!
America for the Americans
The Falklands for Canada
Argentina have nothing
Hehehehehehehehe!
Britain, Malaysia or even Zimbabwe...
Jan 12th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would all be better choices than Argentina....
Jan 12th, 2014 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0170 axel arg
Jan 12th, 2014 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But there never was an expulsion in 1833. AS has been repeated many times only an Argentine garrison was asked to leave. A garrison that had mutinied and murdered their commanding officer ( St Major Jose Mestivier). No one was killed and not one shot fired. The civilian population were left alone.
The shared sovereignty solution, much talked about by Kirchner was only a dicussion paper produced by civil servants and diplomats. This was never government vpolicy. It almost certainly would have been rejected by the Islanders and their government and by the British parliament. It has been official British policy sincev 1965 that the wishes of the islanders are paramount. This was amnnounced to the British parliament by the then Labour Foreign Secretary of State Micheal Stewart in April 1965.
This is the 21st century. It should be obvious to all that there can be no change in the constitutional status of the islands without the free consent of the people who live there. This Argentine argument that the population are “implanted” and therefore can have no say as to their own future is absurd.
@183
Jan 12th, 2014 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The “implanted population” argument isn't just absurd, it's truly hilarious, and probably the most damaging thing there is to the Argentine claim. It's a mark of desperation, and a tribute to the effectiveness of the referendum, that the Argentines have been forced to resort to it.
Guys
Jan 12th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are being unfair to axel. He has done his “research” and everything...lol.
The result of his research is (according to him) FACT, not opinion.
The actual result of his research, is the deranged ramblings of an indoctrinated fool, who has seen the complete fabrication made up by his government, but still desperately wants to steal the Falklands from their rightful owners.
The problem for axel is that he thinks he has intelligence but he actually is more stupid even than Stevie.
He completely misunderstands the British position.
He completely lies about the Argentine position.
However, I have decided he is right about reparation, and I have decided to propose a deal pro rata with what he is happy with for the indigenous Patagonians.
According to Axel, some lands have been restored to the indigenous Argentines.
Let's say 1% of the total area.
There were in excess of 100,000 massacred indigenous argentines, and 55 people were expelled from the Falklands
So pro rata, that is 2,000 based on number, and shall we say for the sake of argument a factor of 10 for massacre versus peaceful expulsion...so 20,000 : 1 less of a reparation.
Also, the original Amerindians were on their land for let's say 5000 years prior to Axels ancestors massacring them, and Pinedos crew were on the Falklands for 50 days...so again, pro rata fair reparation of. 35:000 to 1
So, based on Axels equation of fair reparation, Argentina is due 1/70,000,000th of 1% of the land of the Falklands.
The Falklands is 12,000km2 ...1% of that 120km2 or 120,000,000m2
So, Argentina is entitled (based on Axels fair reparation) just shy of 2m2 of the islands.
However, since 1982, the Falkland Islanders have passed over maybe 50 times that in a cemetery for the Argentine fallen, that the Argentine government couldn't be bothered to bring home.
Looks to me like we've been over generous with our reparations Axel.....to thick imbecile.
lol at the dumb Britards here, who pass the whole week engaging in the same discussions again and again about those damn islands, saying that Britards are blasé and not obsessed about the islands.
Jan 12th, 2014 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Forget-Tit
Jan 12th, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is called reverse indoctrination, if we point out again and again that the indoctrination you had at school was lies, and perhaps even teach you a silly little song....maybe, just maybe...one of you would better understand the truth.
I know it's a long shot with retards like you and axel...but you never know
@187
Jan 12th, 2014 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And your point is?
@187
Jan 12th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought his point was quite clear. You misquoted didn't you?
They say, they are not indoctrinated, they say they are not brain washed,
Jan 12th, 2014 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet they still believe in the past,
They condemn the brits for being imperialistic, [ but this is exactly what they want to be ]
The accuse the brits of having colony’s,
But that’s exactly what they want to have, with all the islands in the south Atlantic,
They call brits, a military bully of occupation,
Yet it is argentina who invaded, using military , and is still abusing , demanding , threatening , intimidating the Falklands to day,
They say they want to do it all peacefully, then they publicly slag the brits of , threaten the islanders , try to enforce their will upon them , and then blockade them,
The true facts are, Britain is a civilised country, trying to do what is best for all, and helping where it can,
But all argentina want to do, is live in the past, procure a modern empire with colonies, and rule the south Atlantic with military force, and eventually threaten her neighbours, with force,
And you wonder why the UN laughs at you, the British ignore you , the US , just sits on the fence , the rest of south America merely pays lip service, as not to upset the dragon queen,
Basically CFK is nothing more that a deluded war monger who wants total control, and blames the brits for everything whilst intimidating the islanders,
CFK is breeding an uncivilised arrogant anti British nation to suit herself, and you Argies are falling for it hook line and sinker,
And as such, when she falls [and she will]
She will drag you lot down with her, crying why, why , why did I follow a deluded witch,
Your choice , your decision , your problem,
Your defeat, again. ???
thus if you was to just embrace freedom and democracy, leave the Falkland's along , and concentrate on your very own country , you would not be in this silly childish mess would you,
put your hatred down , get rid of the deluded witch , leave the yellow brick road , and grow up, and be real men , instead of bullies ,??
#186
Jan 12th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Active online poll from “The Telegraph” shows Falklands should be under Argentine sovereignty
The topic of this discussion is ???????????????
lol at the dumb Argies here who pass the whole week engaging in the same discussions again and again with the same pack of twisted lies again and again and again..........
Forgetit 87...why don't you ?
@Monkeymagic
Jan 12th, 2014 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was taught absolutely nothing at school about the Malvinas - not that I remember of, at least. And I care nothing about them. Heck, if one side decided to wipe them out so the other wouldn't have them, all I'd do is yawn. Indoctrination is not an issue to me. But even I find it funny the complete lack of self-awareness on you lot's part. *That* may be a sign of indoctrination.
The British will be returning the Malvinas to Argentina within the next 25 years.
Jan 12th, 2014 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@193 And in 25 years, the British will still be returning “La Malvinias” to Argentina in 25 years. But of course by then it just very well be an independent member of hte commonwealth. Forever free to determine their own fate and forever out of the clutches of fascists like you.
Jan 12th, 2014 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0' In my opinion a fair solution would be what was discussed in 1974 between both countries, which was based on a shared sovereignty.'
Jan 12th, 2014 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel,
It was never discussed between the both countries, and the discussions, if they had taken place, wouldn't have been limited to both countries.
From the 1974 proposal:
=
However, I am to state that Her Majesty's government would feel free to invite representatives of the Islands to form part of the British delegation, and that before final agreement the Islanders would have to be formally consulted and their acceptance sought by some form of popular representation.
On this basis, Her Majesty's Government propose that, if the Argentine Government agree, official or preliminary official talks should take place in Buenos Aires as soon as possible.
=
'formally consulted' most likely would have meant a referendum.
Now Axel, if you accept the 1974 proposal then you must accept the formal consultation of the Islanders, and their right to say 'no' to the proposal in that consultation.
@193
Jan 13th, 2014 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Within 25 years the Argentines will be returning Patagonia to the Amerindians, and Buenos Aires to the Chinese.
#193
Jan 13th, 2014 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your 25 years is a movable feast - it was 25 years last year.
So, what you are saying is that it will never happen.
By the way, it can never be returned as it never belonged to them.
Keep up the platitudes. We thought that you were due for an appearance.
Axel, you are fascinated by claims of who did what to who 200-300 years ago! All that is pretty irrelevant in todays world of Democracy and Human Rights!
Jan 13th, 2014 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0I beleive that hisatorically the British Claim is pretty good - but I also accept there are competing claims from Argentina based on the Spanish Claim- and even the French have a right to make a claim- they were indeed the first to settle the Islands!
But the following is INDISDPUTABLE - and even you know it!
Jan 1833 Britain re-occupied the Islands and NO Civilian Population was forced out. A militai and their dependents were told to leave- the civilian settlers were invited to stay - and all did so apart from 4 who left of their own free will.
You Know that is true- it is documented in Arg National Archives as well as in British ones.
Fact 2:
Since 1833 the Islands have been peaceabuy occipied and developed by those early settlersand others who continued to arrive thoughout the early-mid 1800s.
Fact 3 - With he exception of 10 weeks in 1982 when the Islands Govt was overthrown by an Argentine Military Invasion- legally rejected by the UN Security Council who passed with no vetoes and ruling ordering Argentina to withdraw - which she ignored- thus acting in violation of International Law.
Fact 4- In the modern 20th and now the 21st Century, civilised nations no longer settle disputes and grab territory against population,s wishes by armed force.
The principles of Democracy- Human Rights and Wishes(Self-Determination) of the People concerned are what rules -
If you cannot accept FACTS - then go to the Int Court of Justice.
Islander1
Jan 13th, 2014 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know you are quoting facts, but please understand that your “research” is only mediocre and reactionary, whereas Axel has done “in depth research” and he is therefore able to enlighten us with his “lectures”.
Being only “reactionary and mediocre”, your “Facts” are in no way as valuable as Axels “research” which clearly apparently shows that
“both sides have strong and weak arugments”.
Please can you remove yourself from the islands, or at the very least be prepared to share the homes, businesses and infrastructure that you and your ancestors have built through the last two centuries, with a group of people who have never added anything to the islands except for unmapped minefields, booby trapped schoolrooms and the use of civilians as a human shield.
After all, that is the result of axels “research”.
Of course I am sure Axel is open to other reparation than 50% of everything you own based on made up events of 200 years ago...Perhaps he'd except 40% now and the remainder within hepatias 25 year timeframe?
For what its worth Islander, as a representative of your “British colonial masters” who are still acting as a 19th century thief, I will give you the alternative.
You can accept Axels kind offer of “shared sovereignty” or you can chose to remain a BOT. As a BOT you can control your own affairs, and we will look after foreign affairs and defence for you.
If at any time in the future you wish to change your status from BOT we will happily work with you towards independence or any other vehicle by which you want to run your own land.
I am happy for you to self-determine whether axels proposal or your current status as BOT is preferable to you.
I love the idea of shared powers. I've seen it in action. When I was a kid the hotel we stayed in when my dad visited his family was “shared” between a Holiday Inn and .... an Econolodge (so yes, it's not far from what Axel proposes, I guess) one got half the year, one got the other half. It sucked 365-days a year with a bonus day of suckage every four years just to remind you that this was NOT a good business model. Today googling the town, there is no hotel there. Go figure.
Jan 13th, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How then would it work? The Argentines would be first of course in Axel's “reasonable” proposal, his boys would “gently” ethnically cleanse the island (though of course this is NOT what he'd have wanted -- sorry Axel you have no one to lie to here, this is what you want) and then the implanted argentines would “self-determine” that they belonged to Argentina before it could be handed to the UK, because when free people practice self-determination, that's bad. but when Axel-approived fascists do so, that's ok.
No deal. The Islanders have the one and only say. And they say no. And no cherry picked lies from your “careful” “research” changes that. The civilized world of 2014 will never give free people over to thugs ever again. The days of Munich and Yalta are OVER. There is no cold war realpolitik, to sacrifice the islanders to. The UN just doesn't want to put the bag of cats that is Argentina over the edge by giving them a demitasse de'realité so it strings them along like the Junta and every other government since has string along gullible poorly-educated suckers like Axel.
I am curious what people like Dany, Axel, Think, Marcos et al will do when the K regime collapses?
Jan 13th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Their whole being is tied to a failing regime, society and lies.
How do you reconcile with that?
How do you live when you get hit smack in the face with reality?
I will be very curious to see what happens when the inevitable happens.
Very curious indeed.
@201 they´ll do what all peronists do, drink the new kool-aid ¨model¨ from whoever pops up to play the flute. Not much will change for them.
Jan 13th, 2014 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@201/202, as long as they promise to give the 3000 free necks to stand on and crutch, they will drool obediently.... and dream of jackboots that are just their size and in their favorite color (which will be the color of whoever is in charge for all's convenience!)
Jan 13th, 2014 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0S. T. JOHN. MONKEY MAGIC. CLYDE15. ISLANDER1.
Jan 13th, 2014 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0RUPERTBROOKSO. DAB14763.
If you want to debate seriously about historical arguments, you can't keep on making your usuall too partial lectures, telling just what is convenient for your side, perhaps you don't realise that in this way, you are just repeating the pathetic propaganda of your decadent empire.
As far as i'm concerned, after 4 years of investigations, i have the conclusion that actualy both countries had rights over the islands in 1833. The u. k.'s rights were based on an secret article which had been included in the nootka sound convention in 1790, and argentina had derived rights of the sucession of states (discovery and papal bulls don't have much relevancy). Then, in my opinion, i think that the u. k. should have negotiated a solution with arg., or maybe share the sovereignty of the islands, instead of using the superiority of h. b. m.'s army in order to force our country to leave the archipelago.
On the other hand, it's also true that arg.'s claims had long interruptions, but you should take into accont also, the great economic dependence that our country had with the empire, beside, despite this weak aspect of our claim, the u. k. tried to find a negotiated solution with arg., in 1968, 1974 and 1980. For all these reasons and more, i have always said that the case has strong and weak aspects for both nations.
Respecting the claims of our originary populations, i have never omited that although their claims and rights are included in our constitution, some of our populations are still victim of powerful masters of expeal them from their lands, in order to plant soya, so, there is still a lot to do for them.
On the other hand, the argument which says that self determination should be applied for this case, is just a colonial caprice of the u. k., and we all know it perfectly, otherwise refute with solid arguments what i said in my comment 35.
Your a broken record. The “negotiated solutions” were against 2065 since they ignored the islanders interests -- which you continue to refuse to do. You keep dogging the big question. How will the civilized world tell the Islanders that:
Jan 13th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) they have no rights despite the UN Charter and 2008 vote. How then will they be formally stripped of their humanity so you can roll over their necks? The cold war is over. No back room deals between shotgun allies trying to stop the spread of communism to be had.
2) they should surrender to a sham of a “shared” sovereignty between two powers. One power they have worked with for nearly two centuries, treats them with respect and has been granting them more and more autonomy building them to self-determination as per the UN Charter and C24 mandate despite your lies. Meanwhile the other is a maladjusted embittered “reformed but unrepentant” trainwreck who illegally invaded them in 1982, left them with land mines and booby traps and houses used as latrines, holding them hostage danger-close to to their soldiers, and celebrating it ALL TODAY with pride on coinage -- a power that won't even talk to them when they are in the same room and when the UN explicitly said that their interests should be taken into account.
How is that going to happen, Axel? How is the world going to hand over the free, even “temporarily” to childish thugs who have blithely and proudly broken resolutions, lied to all, especially when the current status quo keeps the Islanders free content and secure?
And what is Argentina to gain by a forced occupation “lite” of people who have have every right to hate them. Boy, that' s done wonders for the “Coalition!” You're so brittle you can't keep lights on let alone pay your debts. Will conquering the islands (even “softly”) make your inflation go away? Keep your lights on? Give you competent government for once? You would find that “having isn't the same as wanting.”
Grow up. Move on.
your usuall too partial lectures, telling just what is convenient for your side, perhaps you don't realise that in this way, you are just repeating the pathetic propaganda of your decadent empire.
Jan 13th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pot meet kettle
Do you not read your own posts?
#204
Jan 13th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“pathetic propaganda of your decadent empire” as opposed to Argentinian truth ?
You try to pass this as scholarly research ?
It's pretentious crap !!
@206: My favorite: “...or maybe share the sovereignty of the islands, instead of using the superiority of h. b. m.'s army in order to force our country to leave the archipelago. ”
Jan 13th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They nakedly violate UN Resolutions and UN BINDING Security Council Resolutions directing the Argentines to leave and then whine because someone came to the Islander's rescue, not to mention the right every country has to defend themselves against illegal armed force. And in posts he keeps pretending to repudiate 1982 saying that the Junta was “illegal” while wanting to retain the negotiating perks of [illegally] holding the islanders hostage. How DARE the UK try to liberate them! Surely they could have let them rape and murder half of them? That would be “reasonable” way to share power. Half of the island under freedom, half under the dirty war. Not that we'll let the islanders have a say in the matter since they are subhumans without the right to self-determination.
The cognitive dissonance required of a “thinking” Malvanista is just mind boggling.
Axel
Jan 13th, 2014 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately, your four years of investigation were wasted. Because you are too thick to use them to get to the right conclusion.
Argentinas claim to the islands is ridiculous. Take a look at 1833. Now look at virtually every single inch of land in the Americas.
Do you not see that every inch of land on the planet has conflicting claims, many of them 1000s of times stronger than Argentinas claim to the Falklands.
If having 50 murdering rapists on some land for 60 days 180 years ago constituted “shared sovereignty”, then you'd need to redraw the whole map. Certainly, Argentina would no longer exist.
Of course, you could argue, that rather than evicting Pinedo and his rapist friends in 1833, captain Onslow could have had a negotiation with the UP.
Did Esteban Mestevier have a negotiation with London before he set sail...? no, thought not!
You are joke!
Argentina didn't inherit the islands from Spain, you twonk! You tried to claim them in November 1832 AND FAILED.
Now, your tiny pea brain...thinks because 50 murdering rapists were evicted from the islands in 1833, you think you are entitled to “shared sovereignty” in 2013.
Laugh my fucking arse of you Ridiculous fool.
Even if your wet dreams were true which they aren't, and Britain had evicted 10000 pationate Argentines who'd been there for decades....you STILL wouldn't be entitled to sovereignty today.
So 50 murdering rapists who'd been there a couple of weeks....DON'T be so STUPID!!!
Your Hypocrisy is astounding, the “decadent empire” as you call it is hilarious....tell me axel (without 4 years study) which is the ONLY empire which voluntarily disbanded, allowing self determination in as many of its former colonies, 90%+ of them working closely together in Commonwealth today....doesn't sound to decadent to me.
I have come to the conclusion that you are either retarded on a wind up...nobody could seriously study this subject for four years and spout the ignorant bullshit that you do!
Interestingly I find that the trouble with quoting past dates is ??
Jan 13th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just how far back do you go,
Stopping at 1833 is surely of self interest only and largely hypocritical,
Surely if one is willing to go back that far,
Then one logical conclusion would say,
What abt Spain, does she not have a claim on Argentina, [forgetting independence] as this is an irrelevance in argentine eyes,
Just how many countries are their that could in theory claim land today,
Surely then most of Europe could claim the rest of the world,
And decent from Africa could in fact, claim the whole bloody world,
What abt space,
Could not an Italian, who saw a particular planet 200 years ago, have a future claim on it,
Gentlemen, the past has gone, forget it,
If any one country was given land based of the past, then the UN would be swamped with claims,
The 21st century is all that counts, and freedom and democracy is the norm,
So it is sad then that some dictatorships even today, wants to turn the clocks back to the past,
We will never have any kind of peace whilst these fools are allowed to sprout their hatred over others,
Freedom may be a pain in the arse for some of you,
But millions gave their day- for your day-today,
Just a thought..
.
the argument that self determination should be applied in the case of the Spanish/Italian “Argentines” is just a colonial caprice to justify fur continuing the decadent Latino empire in South America.
Jan 13th, 2014 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They should all leave and return to Europe, leaving only pure-blood Amerindians.
Laugh my arse off at Axel.....he really is a loon, the fact his tiny intellect is the standard of teacher in Argentina explains a lot. Poor students....four years, and still can't grasp the basics.
Tell me Axel, in 2008 when the UNGA removed the Argentine proposed “where no sovereignty dispute exists” from the paper on self determination of NSGTS at Britains request....what do you think the vote was about?
And overwhelmingly the world voted with us! perhaps your 4 years of research missed that!!!!
GFACE. CLYDE15. MONKEY MAGIC.
Jan 13th, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Accept it or not, even after that unforgiven war, the u. n. has always continued to call both nations to resume the negotiations and find a peaceful solution. I recommend you to search the words of the president from the decolonization committee, where he explained the reasons why self determinaton is not applicable for this cause, search it in the news archive of this website, the date is march 4th of 2013.
Respecting historical arguments, as i told you before, discovery and papal bulls don't have much relevancy. According to public international right, discovery just gives a precarious tittle which must improved with a permanent occupation, however the u. k. just occupied permanently a small place in port egmont for 8 years (1766-1774) (1). After they left, there were sporadic settlements of british sailors (2), however, those settlements don't have much relevancy for public international right, because they weren't made in the name of the state (3).
In the case of arg., it's rights were derived from the sucession of states (4), due to spain had exercised a true effective control for 45 years on the soledad island (east falkland), so, when our country declared it's independence, it had right to occupy unless that island.
Anyway, i think that the u. k.'s rights were based on an article which had been included in the nootka sound convention in 1790 (5).
(1) - (4) Malvinas, georgias, sandwich del sur. Perspectiva histórico-jurídica. Secretaría parlamentaria. Dirección de publicaciones. 1992-93-94.
Sucesión de estados en el caso malvinas. By Lilian C. Del Castillo. Pages: 29-37.
(2) www.falklandshistory.org
(3) Malvinas, georgias, sandwich del sur. Perspectiva histórico jurídica. Secretaría parlamentaría. Dirección de publicaciones. 1992-93-94.
Las islas Malvinas. ¿Puede Gran Bretaña fundar su derecho en la prescripción adquisitiva?. By Norma Gladys Sabia de Barberis. Pages: 41-49.
(5) www.falklandshistory.org
I believe that @ 212 axel arg (#) used to post under the screen name of Simon68..
Jan 13th, 2014 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway, the islanders have demostrated worlwide that they cannot develop such islands....
no money....no class...
keeping the islands in their arses shows they are nothing more than retards!
jealousy will get you nowhere,
Jan 13th, 2014 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the Falkland's even at their lowest ebb, are still years ahead of Argentina..
Axel
Jan 13th, 2014 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First fail:
Argentina did not gain its rights from succession of states. The Falkland islands were never part of the United Provinces, and there was nobody on the islands to succeed them to. The Falklands are no more an automatic part of the UP than Cuba...they were not integral being 1000 miles away, Spain did not recognise and succession, and as it turned out the UP was made up of a whole host of disperate states Paraguay, Uruguay, a bit of Brazil, a bit of Bolivia etc. indeed the nearest Spanish empire state was Chile.
Second fail:
The UP knew it didn't have automatic sovereignty, and certainly didn't maintain it. Even if Spain had ceded sovereignty (which it didn't). Argentina failed to maintain a perminant occupation. Which is why Jewitt tried to claim the islands in 1820 and why the UP were so anxious that Vernet take their ceremonial title.
However, neither Jewitt nor Vernet we perminant occupies either, both being long gone by Oct 1832. In fact, as you know, the only tiny occupation in October 1833 was led by the British Matthew Brisbane, and he had no title from either the UP nor Britain.
fail 3
You seem to want to identify with the Spanish claim for East Falkland. So, in November 1832 when the Sarandi arrived, did poor Mestevier only claim East Falkland before he was murdered...or did he, in a blatant act of 19thC colonialism claim the entire archipelago?
Fail 4
The chair of the decolonisation comittee has ABSOLUTELY no say as to whether self determination applies. HE IS NOT THE UNGA (who really couldn't say either) or the ICJ (who could)....he is a Latam stooge.
The UNGA in 2008 voted in a huge majority that a sovereignty dispute DOES NOT remove the right to self determination of a NSGT.
Sorry Axel, your research is a joke...blinded by your indoctrination.
@212, The needs of the islanders should be taken into account according to the UN. You can't run from that. No one can erase that from the resolutions. The fraud of the C24 can't. Your incompetent “research” can't.
Jan 13th, 2014 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for the C24 pretending to dictate UN policy that goes counter to the Charter and General Assembly vote that you tried and lost? (Rather like a middle manager thinking he can “borrow” from the till without the comptroller's approval or ask a secretary for a “favor.”) Sorry, no one in 2014 (the only year that matters until this 31 December), not even the frauds in C24, can look the rest of the world in the eye and dehumanize the people you want to conquer and tell them their view doesn't count.
And for heavens sake. You won't even talk to them. How can 2065 and the other resolutions you lie about be satisfied if you cannot even do that. Don't lie get all huffy and say that YOU, Axel, want it so it's ok because you, Axel, are a nobody. Your government holds that card and I wager you don't even have the guts to publicly stand in the street and demand they play it. (But if you do, please do civic society everywhere a favor and post it on Youtube!) All the stalling is on YOU -- not on the UK. Who was there in February? Who had the comfy chairs ready? Who had snacks and tea? And who ran? You know that the minute your government sits in the room with such talks and they hear “NO!” from the victims of YOUR fascist illegal war in 1982 for the umpteenth time, this time in official capacity of 2065, that the farce will be over. That's why Timerman ran from talks in February and you know it. That's why they drag it out still.
But your given,meant doesn't really care. They need to string stupid gullible fools like you along to distract from the mess they're making of your country -- just like the Junta you “repudiate” did in 1982. You fall for the same trick even now.
GFace.
Jan 13th, 2014 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel likes to pretend.
He likes to pretend that the Spanish settlers on the islands were still there in 1814 and desperately wanted to be liberated. He likes to pretend that they chose to be Argentine. He likes to pretend that these new Argentines were evicted by Britain in 1833 and therefore Argentina has a right to feel aggrieved.
If indeed this pretence was true, there would certainly be a quandary. Self-determination would still apply, but it would be easier to sympathise with Argentina.
Of course, as we know it's all pretence. The Spanish settlers left in 1811, and certainly FOUGHT AGAINST the uprising. There was no Argentine settlement, and the only guy who took a UP title, had run for his life before the Lexington raid.
So by October 1833 the islands were without sovereignty. Nobody had managed a perminant settlement.
The UP arrived in November 1832 and even screwed that up by mutinying, murdering their captain and raping his wife in front of their children. They were evicted within 2 months and 180 years of peaceful settlement followed.
Except for a small window in 1982 when Axels countrymen caused 1000 deaths trying to use the Malvinas myth to hide their inadequate government.
It doesn't wash. The British LOVE to feel guilty about their history, if anything that's our indoctrination, look at the Belgrano for example...guilty about sinking a warship who's captain admits was trying to attack!
However, in the case of the Falklands their is no guilt on our side. just defence of the islanders right to live their lives without Axel trying to steal half their homes, businesses and infrastructure.
AND WE WILL DEFEND THEM!!!
166 - usual deal, ad homs, assumptions, telling me Im lying when Im not
Jan 13th, 2014 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(in an internet rant forum there really is no incentive ), and then filling me in on my own opinion.
I was kind enough to forgive darraghs loaded 'nonsense' question, hoping the obvious unfunniness of 'hur hur you said you were speaking nonsense' would not result.
Try to keep it on 1 topic of the above questions and not go on an ad-hom filled rant.
So while Im here I'll re-state that I don't believe the people on the islands to be untermenschen.
(although they do have a strangely high level of population without any formal education) ;)
AXEL ARG
Jan 13th, 2014 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sorry to inform you that you have wasted FOUR years of your life!
“after 4 years of investigations, i have the conclusion that actualy both countries had rights over the islands in 1833.... argentina had derived rights of the sucession of states”
Argentina derives no rights as it is not the successor state to the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata. Read this, especially the last paragraph on the first page: http://data.rg.mpg.de/rechtsgeschichte/rg16_091leiva.pdf
Also the boundaries of all states in this area have changed and moved multiple times, so prior occupation does not constitute continuing occupation. The current and previous Argentine states have accepted border changes from all neighbours since the end of the Viceroyalty.
For someone who reminds us (ad nauseum) about how much research they undertake, you would think that you would be able to refute this with your own research. So I await that.
Secondly, the UN General Assembly has not passed a motion regarding the Falkland Islands for 24 years. Every year it passes a resolution regarding non-self governing territories and the last time it mentioned the Falkland Islands separately was 1988!
1982-1984 they included this quote using the word 'sovereignty':
“negotiations in order to find as soon as possible a peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute”
1985-1988 they included this quote using the word 'problems':
“resolve peacefully and definitively the problems pending between both countries, including all aspects on the future of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas), in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations”
1989-2013 they have not mentioned the Falkland Islands at all:
“take all steps necessary to enable the peoples of the Non-Self- Governing Territories concerned to exercise fully as soon as possible their right to self-determination, including independence”.
You attempt to cloak your beliefs in research but fail to actually back them up with independent facts.
218 Vestige
Jan 14th, 2014 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do love these simple statements like yours “although they do have a strangely high level of population without any formal education”
Education in the Falkland Islands
http://www.tes.co.uk/Upload/Attachments/TES/03853F0001/2013%20Education%20in%20Falkland%20Islands%20brochure%20%282%29.pdf
Judging by your comments on the telegraph “pole” and your interpretation that the result reflects the position of the British population would suggest that your own education was not up to standard.
213 ron_57 must be past your bedtime sussie
Leiard -
Jan 14th, 2014 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.falklands.gov.fk/assets/79-13P.pdf
Page 35 - paragraph 9.1
”Of the 1,582 people who make up the current work force in the Falkland Islands (excluding MPA), 544 people have no recognised qualifications - 34% of the working population”.
Strange, no ?
My comments on the telegraph “pole” and my interpretation that the result reflects the position of the British population suggest that I put at least some confidence in a long established international newspaper.
The poll results are yet to be proven otherwise.
Which equally reputable and up to date source do you base your opposing opinion of this exact situation on.
Vestige
Jan 14th, 2014 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a question of context, and not just cheap point scoring.
If you look further to page 26 paragraph 9.4
“Levels of educational attainment tend to be lower in Camp than Stanley, with over 50% of the working population in Camp having no qualifications. This is a reflection of the type of agricultural work prevalent in Camp which is heavily reliant on specialised skills and methods most often gained through experience”
Also paragraph 9.5 that shows the improving standards.
Your final statement regarding the Telegraph poll (I spelt it right this time - no edit function on these comments) just shows how determined you are to interpret anything to your advantage.
Do you honestly believe that the results of this poll were not influenced by articles such as that in the BA Herald that provided a direct link to the Telegraph poll. ?
222 Leiard -
Jan 14th, 2014 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who cares how the figure is distributed.
There is no context.
” 544 people have no recognised qualifications - 34% of the working population”.
Government census.
End.
(I don't criticize your spelling, I had copy-pasted your paragraph in, including any quotation marks or spelling errors)
Im not determined to interpret anything to my advantage.
I entertain the idea that votes -could- have come from Argentina.
However I don't have any reason to believe that they -did- come from Argentina.
(I hope that they didn't, it would really reflect well on the people of G.B. if the poll is genuine)
That is only speculation, it lacks evidence.
So in the meantime I reason given the Telegraphs reputation and history is all we have, that the poll is genuine.
My reasoning:
63% - Established international newspaper.
34%- Government census.
Yours: ??
Vestige there is currently another poll in progress, I won't mention the name of the paper, it might also be hijacked.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This poll “Does Argentina have a legitimate claim over the Falklands”
32% yes
68% no
-------------
“That is only speculation, it lacks evidence.”
Why would the Telegraph give a Spanish translation to the poll if not to gather votes other than British.
It's a bit like the reliable poll conducted last August by the Telegraph on Gibraltar. The Telegraph themselves admit the poll was hijacked.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/gibraltar/10420900/Spanish-ministry-of-defence-staff-vote-thousands-of-times-in-Gibraltar-poll.html
It is only in your biased opinion that the result of this so called poll
“ would really reflect well on the people of G.B. if the poll is genuine”
It would reflect extraordinarily BADLY on the people of the UK if the poll was genuine.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it were genuine it would point to the following:
1) The people of the UK do not respect the UN Charter
2) The people of the GB do not reflect the numerous UN Resolutions that say that the interests of the islanders are paramount
3) The people of the UK do not respect the lives of the 255 servicemen who died for the freedom of the islanders
4) The people of the UK support 21st century colonialism where a failed fascist state can claim land against the will of the population.
indeed if the poll was a true reflection (which of course it isn't)..the UK would ACTUALLY be guilty of all of Argentinas nonsense insults.
As it is, we respect the UN Charter, comply with all relevant UN resolutions, show full admiration to those who died for freedom, and will defend the islands from Argentinas colonialist aspirations.
Sorry Vestige.....you aren't having them....
@223 Vestige
Jan 14th, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For such a poorly educated people they have a remarkably high GDP per capita and very low levels of unemployment - would you agree? I'm constantly amazed at how snide the comments are against the islanders from the Argentine side and/or from those who merely hate Britain per se.
And if you genuinely believe that, based on the DT poll, the people of Britain truly want to abandon the islanders to their fate, then you need to ask yourself why not a single UK party leader or leading politician has jumped on this populist bandwagon.
It was an obvious joke. Dont get sand in your bits.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps the issue hasn't had enough attention recently.
It may be that it will take some time for a new opinion to become more common, known and relevant.
Voter apathy, simply not being bothered by every issue under the sun, being busy enough with other issues, are relevant factors in politics.
However, if the opinion poll is genuine then it shows a new, more informed, reasoned and open minded public opinion on the issue.
This may possibly reflect the younger generation not having the outmoded, tabloid bandwagon thinking of many of the apathetic uninformed masses from the 80's onward.
Possibly the internet played a role, informing factually rather than intentionally and proudly spreading ignorance.
Hope so.
227 Vestige
Jan 14th, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And where is this new informed, reasoned and open minded opinion in Argentina ?
It certainly is not obvious from your postings.
There is only one opinion being presented by Argentina, the Islands belong to Argentina, sod off you British and you Falkland Islanders.
Why else would all these threats coming from Argentina and this new body headed by Filmus.
MONKEY MAGIC.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a little missinformed, unless in the case of the soledad island (east falkland) had been submitted to the jurisdiction of the viceroalty, in fact there was a sucession of different spanish governors during colonial times.
On the other hand, the first intent of argentine occupation which was made by daniel jewitt in 1820, had been published in the times in 1821 and in american newspapers, but neather the u. k. nor spain protested for that occupation, the fact that in that moment there wasn't any british representation in our country is an irrelevant excuse, due to the government of h. b. m. could have sent a mission to the u. p., in order to protest for the occupation made by jewitt.
On the other hand, you have to learn that when you analize a historical fact, you must take into account the context, the decade of 1820 untill 1830 was a very hard time for our country, because there were intern wars, so, the nation was under a very weak situation, then it was obvious that the occupation of the malvinas wasn't a priority.
Anyway, beyond all those hard problematics, if the soledad island had been submited to the jurisdction of the viceroalty, our country had right to occupy it in virtue of the sucession of states, after having declared it's independence. In the case of the u. k., i don't reject it's rights over the islands, but it should have negotiated a peacefeul solution with our country, or maybe share the sovereignty of the islands.
Historical analysis are too complacated to make the tipicall too partial lectures that you often do, where you tell just what is convenient for your empire.
GFACE: Although it's difficult to talk to reactionary people like you, who just insult, i can only tell you that if you are happy believeing that self dtermination is perfectly applicable for the islanders, i respect it, however objetive facts sice 1965 don't support your mischievous lectures. Otherwise, read the words of the president of the d. c.from the u. n.
Axel - go and post this repetitive misinformation of yours elsewhere.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your research is poor and you continue to post your personal interpretation of what happened as the only truth such as your own interpretation on the Islander's right to self determination.
The president from the C24 committee (which is only a sub committee of the UN ) had no authority to make the comments that he did and I think you will find he was rebuked for making those comments.
Axel
Jan 14th, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0READ WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN.
Spain had control over East Falkland from 1765-1811. Nobody contests this fact, we all know the history. Spain also controlled a whole load of other places that aren't Argentina.
In 1811, Spain vacated these islands.
The UP didnt exist until 1814, and certainly didn't inherit the islands from Spain. They inheritted the lands where the Spanish people wished to become independent. That is the succession of states.
The Spanish people in the Falklands had already returned to Spain and therefore never wished to be independent or join your revolution.
Jewitt DID NOT FORM A COLONY. JUST LANDING SOMEWHERE AND CLAIMING IT IS NOT OCCUPATION!! there was no need to contest it as it was irrelevant.
Vernet sought UK permission to form his business on the islands, and in our view also did not constitute UP occupation. Certainly after Vernet left and the Lexington raid occured, leaving Matthew Brisbane (British) iin charge...IT WAS IN NO WAY an UP Occupation.
So, when the UP FINALLY tried to send an occupying force in NOVEMBER 1832, Britain immediately protested.
The UP IGNORED BRITAINS PROTEST AND TRIED TO CLAIM SOVEREIGNTY OVER ALL THE ISLANDS. (perhaps you should have negotiated a peaceful solution or offered shared sovereignty???, But no you went to steal them all!)
Sadly, you screwed it up, your militia mutineed and murdered the UP authority and raped his wife in front of their children, and Captain Onslow arrived and evicted the rest---PEACEFULLY...within six weeks.
I am sorry that you dont like the TRUE history axel, but there it is.
Now, look at almost every inch of the Americas today...it is controlled by the people, who at some time or other had the biggest guns. Including all of Argentina. Dont be such a hypocrit.
Read this from 2012
http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/67/134
At no point does it say this is applicable to all NSGT except the “special case”...LOL
your “lectures” are too partial Axel...
Answer my question Axel: How can Argentina be said to comply with the resolutions you constantly lie about if it is ordered by the UN to take the islanders interests into account yet refuses to meet with them. WHO asked for meetings in February in London with Hague? WHO showed up in full and total and serioius compliance with 2065? And at the end of the day, WHO RAN both from the meetings and 2065? You know the answer to each of these questions. And what are YOU doing to hold your governments feet to the fire and look reality, the resolutions you cherrypick and the islanders in the eye. And once again, talk is cheep, lets see the overt act of civic engagement.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yes, those resolutions DO affirm that the islanders have self-determination and a say at the table. The 2008 vote and comments therein as seen in the minutes and press releases called BS on denying self-determination when someone else calls “DIBS!” and the C24 chair was clearly out of his element just as suicidal middle manager who says that yes, you can make your secretary perform sexual acts on you violates harassment law. How else can their interests be respected as per 2065 if they are not even at the least point queried by all parties? As I keep saying, the civilized world of 2014 will never allow another Munich or Yalta to happen ever again. The shame of handing free people over to thugs whose intents are as transparent as yours would be too much for decent people.
The facts are easy to see. As are the writing you place between the lines, your embubbled conjecture and flat out attempts at deceit (e.g., your highly creative rewriting of Edward's protests.). The only person you have to lie to here is yourself. We aren't buying. Neither is the civilized adult world. You can play in the committees that favor playing regional alliances against each other all you want but the adult world is content with a status quo that keeps the islanders happy and free and out of your hands.
228 -
Jan 14th, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dont know where the new informed reasoned opinions are in Argentina, maybe you could make a poll and find out.
In the meantime this story is about a GB poll.
Its not about me, my posts have always been pretty open minded and reasoned.
I think most Malvinista's (such as myself) would be willing to reason beyond 'sod off'.
223
Jan 14th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0come now vestige
218 - you digress from the topic and introduce the formal education standards of the Falkland Islanders.
So what is this “ new, more informed, reasoned and open minded public opinion on the issue.” you keep talking about ?
We have pointed out to you that perhaps you should not put as much faith into this poll as you are.
#223
Jan 14th, 2014 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you actually believe that the result of the poll reflects accurately the opinion of the British public ?
The British public voted in the current government. This Government's policy is that the Falkland Islanders will decide whether or not they wish to be part of Argentina. The Falklanders have said NO, quite vociferously, to that, ipso facto the British public must accept and agree with that position.
If any future poll is taken on this issue THEN it must only be applicable to British citizens and not have the facility to be hi-jacked by foreigners with a different agenda.
@233, That's your problem, the islanders have a clear fundamental human right to say “sod off,” and like a creepy stalker you just can't take no for answer. There are prisons filled with people who share your “reasonable” take on the Islands and nobody believes them either when they, like you, say that the b**** has no say in the matter. Sorry, she has the ONLY say in the matter no matter how much your lie to the contrary.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Coming back to the subject of the public poll, I knew it reminded me of something. Turns out GB polls for a very similar question on the subject of north of Ireland also show a very strong majority of GB public opposed to current British govt policy.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.theguardian.com/guardian/pressrelease/0,,689378,00.html
So given the nature of the conflict and history in that country, coupled with the poll results from GB actually being able to be achieved, I think the results for the Malvinas are not so far fetched.
All evidence so far points to the poll being accurate and genuine at
63% for Argentine sovereignty.
:D
@237
Jan 14th, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> All evidence so far points to the poll being accurate and genuine at
63% for Argentine sovereignty.
What evidence is that. exactly?
#237 To quote from the article written in 2001 !
Jan 14th, 2014 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ICM interviewed a sample of 1001 adults aged over 18 by telephone between August 17-19, 2001. Interviews were conducted across Britain and have been weighted to the profile of all adults..
You are comparing this poll with an invitation to press a button on your computer from anywhere on the planet ? Anyone could vote on this.
Hardly a scientific statistical analysis. However, if you and your pals wish to believe it, dream on !
The only poll matters is the one driven home on the 10th and 11th of March of last year. And there was little question as to what the only people who matter on this said. NO to a change in their status -- from the only people whose opinions count. NO to being forcibly annexed by a country that won't even look them in the eye let alone affirm their legitimate interests in maintaining their freedom and status. No. En-Oh. The letters are in alphabetical order for everyone's convenience. It even means the same in Spanish! There is no excuse for getting it wrong. What part of NO don't you understand?
Jan 14th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just goes to show that shock poll results from G.B. which go against the expected result (in reference to conflicts) can and do occur, and that results in these conditions can be genuine.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0just words,
Jan 14th, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0just paper reports,
you argies do take things to seriously,
its just words,
yet definitely not Facts..
@241
Jan 14th, 2014 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what is this “ new, more informed, reasoned and open minded public opinion on the issue.” you keep talking about ?
It was you who suggested that this could be interpreted from your view on the result of this poll.
The majority of educated people would realise that this poll result does not really represent the majority views of the UK public.
Why do you think that the Telegraph also presented the questions in Spanish?
243-
Jan 14th, 2014 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The majority of educated people would realise that this poll result does not really represent the majority views of the UK public.”
What makes you think that.
@244
Jan 14th, 2014 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pure common sense, discussions with friends and acquaintance in the UK who agree that this poll has been hijacked just like the previous poll on Gibraltar.
What about answering the other questions in my post..
I've no idea why the Telegraph included questions in Spanish too.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't speak for “The majority of educated people would realise that this poll result does not really represent the majority views of the UK public.”
@244
Jan 14th, 2014 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because the Daily Telegraph is the house journal of the traditional right, Old England, and the British military. Typical Telegraph readers are as likely to vote for Argentina as they are to vote for Francois Hollande.
Thats just an assumption, you can't know for sure. Thats why polls are used.
Jan 14th, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#248
Jan 14th, 2014 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you believe what you say then you obviously know NOTHING about the British psyche. The Telegraph is for rabid right wingers who think conqueror is a leftie.
How about a poll for the British public based on this.
Do you agree that the Falkland Islands should be handed over to the Argentine totally against the wishes of the people who have lived there for generations and who were brutally invaded in 1982 resulting in the deaths of 255 British forces personnel.
The answer you will get depends on the question and to whom you ask it.
@246 Vestige
Jan 14th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I speak as part of a large number of people who disagree with the so called results of this Telegraph poll - can you prove that I don't.
@248 Vestige
On line polls that do not place restrictions on the participants of the poll cannot be classified as a truly constructive opinion.
Again as mentioned before the Telegraph itself agrees that it's on-line polls are manipulated/hijacked.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/gibraltar/10420900/Spanish-ministry-of-defence-staff-vote-thousands-of-times-in-Gibraltar-poll.html
by the way you still have not answered.
What is this “ new, more informed, reasoned and open minded public opinion on the issue.” you keep talking about ?
@248
Jan 14th, 2014 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know for sure, but I believe it to be true on the basis of what I know about the Telegraph, and of what happened with their previous Falklands poll.
https://twitter.com/HansNiesund/status/176598242744741888/photo/1
Are you going to tell us your 'evidence' or not?
What evidence other than a poll conducted by an established newspaper do you want.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0That, and the Ireland poll which shows that such unexpected results are possible, are enough for someone with no evidence to the contrary to have reason to believe the results.
I can only hope that the poll results turns out to be genuine, it would show a more just and enlightened thinking from the G.B. public, as they demonstrated before with their north Ireland vote.
All this other stuff like twitter pics and random stuff like 'Im part of a big group' is just anecdotal buffooneriee.
So until I've any officially backed reason to believe the poll false Im happy with the G.B. public's 63%. Better late than never.
How reading some enlightened Argentinian thinking.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Oops! The Telegraph Conducts Online Poll Over Malvinas Sovereignty, Argentina Wins”
http://bubblear.com/2014/01/oops-the-telegraph-conducts-online-survey-over-malvinas-sovereignty-argentina-wins/
@252
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's quite simple. The evidence I would like to see is an indication of where the votes actually came from, particularly since there is clear evidence of a social campaign in Argentina to stuff the poll the last time the Telegraph conducted a similar exercise.
And what you've cited as “evidence” isn't actually evidence at all, it's just the usual mixture of credulity, prejudice, and wishful thinking that constitutes the essential symptoms of Malvinas Syndrome.
You're also missing the point about the NI vote. That is no surprise to anyone. Most mainland Brits always regarded the Unionists as an anachronistic tribe of bigots living in a different century, but nonetheless upheld their right not to be bombed, terrorised or otherwise coerced into absorption by another state (which in this case was every bit as horrified as the Brits were and didn't want them anyway). The same applies in the case of the Falklands, and even more so in that the
Falkland Islanders are clearly the underdog and have none of the repellent baggage the NI Unionists did. Evidently, Argentina doesn't understand this any more than the IRA did. Perhaps they should try appointing a professional diplomat as ambassador.
Otherwise, the Good Friday agreement remains a shining example of how mature societies can resolve a conflict even after bloodshed, particularly on the side of the Republic, but Argentina is in my view about a century behind our friends there in that respect.
#252
Jan 15th, 2014 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are stretching credulity beyond belief.
Do you believe that this was a scientific statistically balanced poll ?
If so, state your reason.
Anyone anywhere could take part in this farce. How do you know that any UK citizen actually voted ? Conversely how do I know if they did not.
The answer is that we do not know so the whole poll is statistically flawed. You believe the result because you WANT to believe it
BA Herald had it as, “63% of Brits” voted for Argentine sovereignty.
Extrapolating this to the UK electorate would mean 27 million Brits. want Argentina to have the Falklands. Why is the government not acting on this immediately and rushing to negotiate a handover ?
Could it be that the figures are not true ?
Live on in your dream world.
255 - I think you might have over extrapolated a bit, however, if the BA Herald did intend to make it look like 63% of the entire country then shame on them.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Short on time.
Leird, your link to bubblebear, bublear, whatever, is not relevant.
Hans - that further evidence to the contrary is not available now (if it does indeed exist). So I have confidence that the Telegraph got it right and that Britons are thankfully finally correcting their outlooks on the situation.
Also you'll notice that there was no other 'state' involved in those bombings etc in that conflict in n.Ireland iirc, that it was British against British (but we digress).
Why is the government not acting on this immediately ? - thats later on, but with the grass roots support there it will eventually after some years be acted on, even if we've all had to wait a couple of decades too long.
(thats the true price of tabloid rags for ya).
#256
Jan 15th, 2014 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Grass roots support ? There is no evidence for this. You are indulging in wishful thinking. I don't doubt that there are a small minority that would wish the matter away by taking the coward's way out but the rest of the population remember the invasion and blood price we paid.
There is no trust here for anything Argentina says or does.
Current pronouncements from your govt. have reinforced this feeling.
Your premise is that the Islands belong to Argentina.
Our premise is that it does not and never has.
Nothing really to discuss about sovereignty..
@256
Jan 15th, 2014 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I posted a link to an Argentinian site that is also dubious about Telegraph poll result and you reaction is that it is not relevant.
So we are to assume that anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint on a topic is to be dismissed out of hand as not relevant.
But its not wishful thinking, I have reason.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An established international newspaper gives me reason.
Or maybe the British center right broadsheet press just print irresponsible sht ??
Leird, I can make webpages too, just like bubbleybeer or whatever/whoever you pulled out.
The telegraph would still be 10,000 times more relevant.
@259
Jan 15th, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you believe everything you read in the press? Or is it just that you suspend all critical faculties when you hear something you want to hear?
#259
Jan 15th, 2014 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or maybe the British center right broadsheet press just print irresponsible sht
At last you have got it in one !!
#256
Also you'll notice that there was no other 'state' involved in those bombings etc in that conflict in n.Ireland iirc, that it was British against British (but we digress).
Again it may be news to you but there were many citizens from Eire who planted bombs in the North and then ran back across the border.
No one is saying that the Irish govt. were involved but elements of the police were as were members of the RUC on the other side.
There was also the case of an American mercenary sniper who shot and killed troops and civilians at border check points while in the Republic.
Just acquainting you with the facts.
@261
Jan 15th, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's not forget that the Irish Republic had an irredentist territorial claim on the North written into their Constitution. They had the integrity and courage to remove it as part of the Good Friday agreement, on the grounds that they were prepared to concede the population of the North the same rights they claimed for themselves.
But we digress ....
260 - do you disbelieve everything you read from national newspapers ?
Jan 15th, 2014 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess thats why reputation/reliability is one of the key selling points, the Telegraph sells quite well I hear.
Had this poll come from the fortean times or the onion I wouldn't be here.
261 - Well we can't know 100% can we. All we have for or against is the word of a national broadsheet. Do you have something on par to the contrary ??
So who's wishful thinking.
A citizen is different from a state, for example English soccer hooligans are not the British state when they smash up a city.
If a given action was a government policy, purposefully enacted by the political leadership from the top down through official levels then it would be a 'state' action.
Just acquainting you with the facts.
#263
Jan 15th, 2014 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Telegraph has paper sales of 550,000. As far as I know, the only way the poll was conducted was on-line. Their died in the wool readers would buy the printed version from which they could not vote.
You know as well as anyone that the poll was not scientifically founded so any result is meaningless unless you can identify the nationality of the voters.
The Telegraph has not done this. For all I know, the whole of the Vatican could have voted.
All the result said was that a majority had voted in favour of Argentina.
YOU have wrongly misinterpreted from this that they must have been British as it fits your agenda.
WHERE does it say they were British voters ? No doubt you will say where does it say they were not. So, the poll is valueless if it is taken as the will of the British people as this point has not been answered.
I post in MercoPress, does that mean I am Uruguayan?
You said it was British against British - I took the statehood question out of the matter.
The Irish govt. say that everyone born in Ireland, in Ulster or the Republic has citizenship of the Irish Republic. The Republicans dwelling in Ulster deny their British citizenship and say they are Irish.
So now, it is not British against British but Irish against British
Did you read my post viz “No one is saying that the Irish govt. were involved”
Could I make it any clearer that the Irish Govt. were not involved in the terrorism as state policy.
So, with what NEW facts was I being acquainted ?
If the poll did consist of a majority of British pollsters calling for Argentine sovereignty, it is irrelevant, unless the pollsters were born in the Falkland Islands or were citizens that live there.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A small point, the Daily Telegraph is not published in the Falkland Islands.
If the poll did count, it would be colonialism.
English, Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh Britons have no say over the Falkland Islands in the same way as Falkland Islanders cannot dictate events in other British countries, i.e. if the Falkland Islanders voted for Argentine sovereignty for Wales in the Penguin News I would imagine the Welsh might tell the Islanders to go somewhere.
@263
Jan 15th, 2014 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/10559061/Telegraph-poll-highlights-differences-between-Britain-and-Argentina-over-Falkland-Islands.html
@266
Jan 15th, 2014 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“In total there were 26,434 votes cast, with two thirds of the votes coming from Argentina, following a social media campaign.”
Et voilà! As somebody said earlier, there was a whiff of the setup about this, and now the new Secretary for Willy Waving has made a twat of himself in his first day at work.
There is an elephant in the room that has not been mentioned yet. Why would what is apparently a respectable right wing paper present such a poll knowing that by doing so that the outcome that has occurred was a possibility? Could it be that the English 'respectable right' has come to the conclusion that because the British will be returning the Malvina's to Argentina in due course and that the issue is not worth iccurring further damage to Britain's image? If this is the case I suspect that there will be a change in this paper's editorial position regarding this issue.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey guys don't forget to take part in the new poll on Gibraltar.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It now stands at
British 12.28% (122,126 votes)
Spanish 87.72% (872,317 votes)
don't forget you can vote as many times as you want.
Keep clapping if you believe in fairies, Hepatia. The British vote was strongly in favor of the Islanders basic human right to say no to Fascism and yes to its solid and positive relationship with Britain. Like 1940 Nazis helpfully “chiming in” on local vote in Copenhagen on the fate of Denmark, everyone with half a braincell how people from an Argentine IP address would vote and that those numbers would out themselves quite easily.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On a related note couldn't the Argentines be smart enough to munge the IP addresses (Guess not). When an org I was with a couple years ago went against everyone sane advise and used a survey monkey to arrange what they thought was a simple and low-risk vote, they had no idea (even though several of us saw it coming) that we'd get lots of surprise votes from IP addresses in Saudi Arabia for “choice” 3 (not 1 like you'd expect but 3) by someone who was known for being able to play that game and even he thought he could get away with it. If you're going to fake a poll result, Malvanistas, please try to be marginally competent, could you?
And of course the pole that has mattered in recent years told you where you could stick your “right” to sovereignty, Hepatia. And that was on 10-11 March of last year.
Well who would have thought? Imagine that, RGS voting in a poll.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/10559061/Telegraph-poll-highlights-differences-between-Britain-and-Argentina-over-Falkland-Islands.html
264 - must be quick. 550,000 people is a substantial audience, you might fit 20,000 in a stadium concert. You cant even imaging 550,000.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A quick google shows that those people who were fighting in northern Ireland conflict only got Irish citizenships after the accord.
Ergo British passport holders fighting British passport holders.
@272
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige no comment on the poll result then !
@ 273.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess not. Maybe he / she doesn't find it interesting. Can't think why.
@271
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Laugh my fucking arse off!!!!!
Being serious for a moment.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why on earth did the BA Herrald make a story about the Telegraph poll? Surely they are not as stupid as RG politicians! They must have known the DT would eventually say where the votes came from.
I can understand Castro making her usually uneducated and daft remarks, because that is what is expected from idiots.
@276: Blame it on the Bubble. How many Malvanistas here make the same easily disprovable statements here over and over and over? BAH probably presumed that their readers won't follow up, that they'll stick this “victory” in their hats and the daring and and stupid few make fools out of themselves in front of anyone who can JFG The Telegraph and see the facts for what they are.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry Alicia Castro....you were saying?
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PMSL.....ambassador...PMSL.....hahahahahahaha
So the telegraph attempted a (Gibraltar vote)trolling.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But as the old saying goes....
223 -
I entertain the idea that votes.... -could- ....have come from Argentina.
(I ....hope that they didn't,.... it would really reflect well on the people of G.B. if the poll is genuine)
#227 “.....IF .....the opinion poll is genuine then it shows a new, more informed, reasoned and open minded public opinion on the issue.”
#252 “.....I can only hope..... that the poll results turns out to be genuine, it would show a more just and enlightened thinking from the G.B. public, as they demonstrated before with their north Ireland vote.”
So the poll so many here claimed to be unreliable and unscientific turns out to be just that, ( who would have guessed :DDD) as the Telegraph now admits itself.
But at least now myself and Clyde agree that the center right British broadsheets “print irresponsible sht”.
Also we learned about the GB public clearly not wanting part of their own country, and that UK citizens bombed themselves.
270+ comments, what a big fuss over nothing. ;D
@279.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Correct, NOTHING, however Castro and the BA Herrald thought it was something.
@279
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not unreliable or unscientific at all.
It correctly shows that the majority of people in Britain who voted (including some Argentines in Britian most probably) are completely in line with the views of the British government.
It also shows that @48 Stevie is yet again a ludicrous joke....again accurately.
It shows Alicia Castro to be a gobshite Ginger loon unfit for public office...again accurately.
It shows you in a pretty dark light, again accurately.
Interesting though....LOL....they should run it weekly with a £1 a pop phone line, see if we can't bankrupt Argentina.
It all seems a bit strange..I wonder if the explanation article by the Telegraph was a response to complaints that the poll would be hijacked like the Gibraltar poll...
Jan 15th, 2014 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why the wait...to explain the strange purpose of the poll....
I mean what did they expect Argentines to vote....
What is surprising is the lesser percentage of the British vote for British Sovereignty....and don't say it all came from Alicia Castro's office as they would have the IP address....
@279
Jan 15th, 2014 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What was unreliable and unscientific was the interpretation of the vote put forward by Filmus, Castro, and your own good self (repeatedly). You can't say you weren't warned, but I wonder if they were?
oh dear 281.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When you say “It is not unreliable or unscientific at all”.
It seems you disagree with both Clyde #264
“You know as well as anyone that the poll was not scientifically founded”.
And the Telegraph itself.
“While the poll was by no means scientific”.
And whats with the animosity towards me Monkey ?
Now you accuse me of being seen “in a bad light”. I dispute that.
And earlier (#32) you accused me of trolling.
Clyde had it right twice - they are both “printing irresponsible sht” and this poll was “Hardly a scientific statistical analysis”.
@284
Jan 15th, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wriggle, wriggle .....
Just be big and admit your were pwned. You're starting to sound like a proper Argentine: you never made a mistake in the first place and anyway it was somebody else's fault
#282
Jan 15th, 2014 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just because the votes were posted from Britain does not mean they were made by Britons. There is a substantial foreign community living in the UK..
It just shows how unreliable these sort of polls are.
Here we go again.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige for post after post tell us how accurate the poll was and how much respect he has for the Telegraph because it shows that the British public have suddenly seen the light that the Argentinians should have sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.
When the true result is known that the majority of those that voted were Argentinian, he tells us that the Telegraph “print irresponsible sht” (279).
All this time we were telling him that the result did not reflect the views of the British public but he would not accept it, after all it reflected the more informed, reasoned and open minded public opinion on the issue.
All the Argentinian press and politicians voiced the same opinion as Vestige that the Brutish support Argentinian sovereignty.
The poll could have been well calculated by the Telegraph, leave the vote open to all (with a Spanish translation), see how many people fall into the trap, wait for Argentina to interpret the result as British support for Argentina (Madam Castro et al) and a week later show the true breakdown of the vote.
Argentina voted for itself the British voted for the Falkland Islands.
Anyway, the only vote that counts is the referendum in the FALKLANDS,
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0286
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well that is certainly an opinion...right or wrong, but there is one thing I have learned through experience...
Foreigners that live in Britain for any length of time appear to become Anglicised or “Anglofied” as I like to say, the longer they stay the less they can relate to their origins...
#287
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just a point. I have seen many references in posts to the “Brutish”
“”the Brutish support Argentinian sovereignty“”.. I thought that this was a mild put-down. Looking at the keyboard, I suddenly realised that the letter U was next to I !! My Bête noire in typos is M for N and typing in upper case in error only to notice it when I look at the screen. I used to be able to TOGGLE this and change it without retyping but cannot remember how to do it.
Thanks Clyde.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One handed typing and no backlit keyboard.
I noticed after submitting but unfortunately there is no edit function after posting.
272
Jan 16th, 2014 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0“A quick google shows that those people who were fighting in northern Ireland conflict only got Irish citizenships after the accord.”
Vestige,
A quick look at Irish citizenship acts shows this isn't true
1956 Act:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1956/en/act/pub/0026/print.html
Part II Citizenship
Sections 6 and 7 (1)
No doubt many made the required declaration.
“Ergo British passport holders fighting British passport holders.”
Plenty of nationalists probably had both passports.
@287 Leiard
Jan 16th, 2014 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0'The poll could have been well calculated by the Telegraph, leave the vote open to all (with a Spanish translation), see how many people fall into the trap, wait for Argentina to interpret the result as British support for Argentina (Madam Castro et al) and a week later show the true breakdown of the vote.
Argentina voted for itself the British voted for the Falkland Islands.'
Yep the dopey diegos walked right into it.... too funny....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/10559061/Telegraph-poll-highlights-differences-between-Britain-and-Argentina-over-Falkland-Islands.html
Shocking, out of 40 million Argentines only 17,000 votes for Argentine sovereignty. Even if we assume that all the votes for Argentine sovereignty were from Argentina that would mean just 4 hundredths of 1 per cent voted to support their government. 99.96% of Argentines either did not vote or supported British sovereignty.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0...or the power was off or someone had knicked their computer...
Jan 16th, 2014 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever it was, it was someone else's fault.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0They, of course are as pure & virginal as the driven snow.
Leird - “The poll could have been well calculated by the Telegraph”.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it was. That was evident from the very beginning.
It was a trolling by a right wing British broadsheet.
A simple repeat of the Gibraltar trolling.
Shock. Horror. Woe is the Malvinista me.
Evident to everyone other then the Argentinians.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#32
Jan 16th, 2014 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ Vestige
Jan 16th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just to reiterate what dab14763 said, people in NI were always able to get Irish passports if they had wanted one. Plus they were/are free to leave the UK at any point in time if a democratic majority were to freely express that view. Similar to the Falklands in that respect.
#299
Jan 16th, 2014 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think that the last part of his post was him being ironic....don't you ?
It's about time they closed this thread as it is just going round and circles like the Magic Roundabout, making us all dizzy.
Go to 47 minutes of the video. Quite pertinent to the Falklands !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLdjHu3Egdg
300 - “able to get Irish passports IF they had wanted one”.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet DID hold British citizenship/passports/birth certificates.
Rico
Jan 16th, 2014 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are some 60M Brits and they got even less votes AND the poll was British.
If you regard the Arg scenario as “schocking”...
MONKEY MAGIC.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your doble standar is really pathetic, if you think that a nation like the u. k., which had left the islands in 1774 and made it's first protest in 1829, when our government decided to create the politic and militar command of the islands, had more rights than a the u. .p, which in the middle of a very weak politic situation tried to occupy a territory that had been submitted to the jurisdiction of the viceroalty, then it's evident that you continue to make no more than your usuall too partial lectures.
After the british retire from port egmont in 1774, there were just sporadic settlements of british and american sailors over the islands untill 1833, however, i already explained you why those sporadic settlements don't have much relevancy for public international right, as a claim of sovereignty.
On the other hand, if vernet asked the u. k. a licence or whatever to form his own bussines as you say, that fact didn't invalid the rights of the u. p., because his own personal ambition didn't deteriorate the sovereign rights of our country. He was just the governor of the territory, not the president of the u. p. Beside, what was published in the times in 1821, reffered to an occupation, but the u. k. didn't protest.
GFACE and LEIARD: I have always said that our government should dialogue with the lawmakers from the islands, however, don't forget that they have always expressed that they are disposed to discuss about different issues with arg., but not about the sovereignty, which is the main problem, then it's evident that they are not interested in any dialogue, actualy what they want is the submission of our country.
On the other hand, if it soposes that self dtermination is perfectly applicable for this case, then why do you think that this cause has always been considered like a special case, and why did that principle was applied for different colonial situations, but never for this case?, just have a look to all u. n.'s resolutions.
@304. You give the same empty words here. Say it in public. Tell your government that you want them to talk respectfully to the Islanders and not people to submit* to their will as they have been. See how many agree with you. You may be surprised.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And even here you have to hem-and-haw. “Yes they should talk with the lawmakers, but Falklanders should talk about sovereignty.” Well they HAVE. They have said NO. Talking about sovereignty doesn't get any better than the repeated “Hell No” they deliver to you over and over again. That's part of the dialog on Sovereignty and they have the last word no matter what you pretend. First you say they have NO say in the matter even though ALL the resolutions you constantly lie about cite the explicit needs of the Islanders interests or cite the charger that applies to everyone including the right to make their views known and to respect them. The only people at the UN who call it a unique case need the “conflict” to keep themselves on the gravy train and to stoke regional fires of loyalty and validation, and it is NOT the Falklands or the UK doing it. And when it comes to “dialog” then at best you think they should say “Maybe” or “Yes whatever you say, Buenos Aires.” Or better still under this unworkable shared plant that has been a train wreck when tried elsewhere between freedom and fascism-lite, ”Sure, Christina, You can make it illegal for us to comment on inflation statistics for 6 months per year (or on West Falkland) while the for the rest of the year (or East Falkland) we will be free to call shenanigans on the INDEC” (as one example). Sorry It doesn't work that way. Dialog means that you have to hear the word “NO!” Get some coping skills and deal with it.
*And you really pile it on thick!. The Falkalnders want submission?! They want to be left alone. How is that demanding submission? It is YOUR government that wants their foot on the Islanders' neck. Talk about clinical projection! Get. Help.
Axel
Jan 16th, 2014 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You misunderstand. Probably deliberately, or maybe because you are thick.
I didn't say the UK had greater rights than the UP in 1832. I said that, based on the reality of the time, both of them had virtually no rights....they were available.
The UK had lost its rights because it withdrew its population, Spain lost its when it withdrew its population in 1811,and the UP NEVER had any.
Jewitts claim is irrelevant as he had no civilian population, I couldn't give a shit about internal turmoil in the UP.
Vernet represented neither country, had permission from both to be there, and Again withdrew voluntarily before the Lexington raid.
Like today, in 1832, the islands were only UP sovereign territory in your mind...NOBODY WHO LIVED THERE THOUGHT THE SAME....
So, when the UP finally got of its lazy arse and sent what could be considered an occupying force, the UK also sent one and dismissed the UP militia after just six weeks.
Sorry axel, but 6 weeks, 50 people, mutineers, murderers and rapists alike, doesn't constitute sovereignty either.
You say that sporadic settlements don't constitute sovereignty, SO TELL ME WHEN IN HISTORY ARGENTINA EVER HAD ANYTHING OTHER THAN SPORADIC SETTLEMENT...NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!!!
So, now we have established Argwntina has never had sovereignty, and their claim is based on a series of lies. We can agree that Britain has had sovereignty in both the 1760s for a decade of west Falkland, and for 180 years of all the islands.
Now axel, take almost every inch of land in the Americas, you could make a stronger case for sovereignty for almost every inch. California should be Mexican, Patagonia should belong to the Amerindian tribes...or perhaps you solution of a 50/50 split LOL.
As far as the UN thinking of the Falklands as a special case, again you misunderstand. LOOK AT THE RESOLUTION I ATTACHED FROM LAST YEAR----NO MENTION OF A SPECIAL CASE----youd think it would get a mention
@296 Isolde
Jan 16th, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Being pure as the driven snow is a terrible curse for them. Obviously, if you don't make any mistakes, it's impossible to learn from them.
@297 Vestige
It certainly wasn't evident to you that the Telegraph poll was trolling “from the very beginning”. You defended it against all comers.
@304
Axel, whatever happened in 1833 was rendered utterly irrelevant by what happened in 1850, 1945, and 1982. You don't have a cause in the Malvinas, you have a neurosis, and a state-inflicted one at that.
Axel is trying the same misguided rubbish that his government tries.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He is pretending that in 1833 the islands were irrefutably Argentine and the UK usurped them.
THIS IS CATEGORICALLY UNTRUE.
Axel makes a list of all the reasons the islands weren't British in 1833. I totally agree with him...if you couldn't establish and maintain a civilian population, then you lose sovereignty and someone else can take it. They were indeed the rules at the time.
This is why Argentina “pretends” that it had maintained a civilian population and that they were evicted and the territory usurped. THIS UNTRUTH IS THE ONLY WAY THEY'D HAVE A CLAIM.
So, where was the the sustained Argentine civilian population?
The Spanish one, never Argentina, fought the BA uprising, and returned to Spain?
The Jewitt one, a few sporadic sailors there for a couple of months?
The Vernet one, a business, that failed, Vernet left with the majority, the remainder were under the leadership of the British Matthew Brisbane?
Or
The Mestevier one, 50 militia who murdered and raped, and we're evicted after 2 months?
These are not “partial lectures”, they are HISTORIC FACTS.
Argentina NEVER EVER sustained a civilian population, therefore FAILED to secure sovereignty, therefore the islands were available to be colonised by the present incumbents in 1833.
It's that simple.
It is the rules by which every inch of the Americas belongs to whom they currently do. A civilian population choosing their own government.
As far as the UN ever saying that self determination DOESN'T APPLY to the FIs. Again, sadly, poor Axel has not read them. The most recent NSGT Rresolution does not mention “special cases” and is explicit in self-determination being the ONLY WAY.
@306/8 that's the thing, when there are special cases, you don't just say it's a special case especially at a organization as “bureaucracy” as the UN where everyone has a position to validate themselves and the credentials and paperwork to prove it. There are paper trails maintaining the status and affirming stuff that all can understand, appeal and recognize. We have entire UN duly-reported bureaucracies on the Israeli Palestinian conflict organizationally isolating them from the way the UN treats other conflicts. Their own refugee agency, task forces and committees. For the Falklands, it's where the UN think it belongs, with all the other NGSTs where ALL as per 2008 affirms have a right to self-determination including those who were not being talked about that day since none of THEM had a “sovereignty claim” had none. Where is the “special committee to dehumanize the Falklanders and just treat them like inanimate objects to be shuffled on a Risk game map so Axel can feel like half a man and make them do as he says.” 'Cause I don't see it. All we have is hot air than the C24 chair that goes 180 to explicit votes by people that matter more than he does and he's already gotten his wrist slapped once. When the Islands were illegally invaded, a there wasn't a committee and task force and special reporter ”To keep the Islanders hostage and perpetual limbo under the Junta which Axel says is bad and was there illegally and had no right to be there but but but ... (well there's always a but with Axel) its wrong to stop the Junta's secret police from flying in and doing what they want to the Islanders”. Nope, there was 502, which said get the hell out and return to Argentina where you belong. No thumb twiddling just an OUT NOW! Special cases exist in the mind of Malvanistas and the fool who wants to drag the credibility of the decolonization process down into the gutter by dehumanizing the islanders and subjecting them to a clearly unwelcome colonial yoke.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The funny thing is, that in order for me to have any sympathy with Axels case, and for any possible retribution be due to Argentina, the following would have to be true.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Spanish population from the Viceroyalty days would have to have still been on the islands in 1833, and they would have had to explicitly have stated they wished to be part of the revolution.
They weren't, and they didn't. The OPPOSITE is true.
No Argentine sovereignty, not in 1814, 1820, 1828 or 1832.
Indeed, had Pinedo been successful, set up a penal colony in 1832, been joined by a few hundred civilians and the Clio only arrived in say 1840.....again, I'd sympathise with Axel.
Quite what we'd do today in 2013, I don't know...BECAUSE NEITHER HAPPENED.
Without an Argentine civilian population, there is no claim.....it's is make believe.
Sadly Axel wants to believe it, but he is too partial in his lectures.
The Falklands are not a special case, READ THE RESOLUTIONS
#303 Stevie the Brits are not really likely to vote. They are quite happy with the status quo and the general view in the UK is that is a matter for the Falkland Islanders to decide so people with that opinion (shared by all the major political parties) are ethically obligate not to vote. Meanwhile the Argentine government maintains that the whole of South America is indignant and 386m people are opposed to the British sovereignty of the Islands on the basis that Argentine sovereignty only got 17k votes this means that 99.99996% of the population of South America either supported the Falkland Islanders or didn't bother to vote.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0still made me giggle, its almost like the Telegraph set them up to fail.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was just reading through all the RG comments about how UK was against the Falklands and how tinpot and friends all think it made something special
Still laughing
From the BA Herald:http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/149742/malvinas-poll-telegraph-now-argues-2_3-of-votes-came-from-argentina
Jan 17th, 2014 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0If what the article claims is true then there is another elephant in the room: the English wing nuts could not organize a counter vote program. This is probably what the paper wanted to know. Expect the sensible right to abandon the wing nuts on this issue (like the GOP will be abandoning the Tea baggers).
Hepatia
Jan 17th, 2014 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0How stupid you are? The paper is laughing at you.
It organises a vote.
It knows the Argtards will want to use it as propaganda.
It watches the BA Herald in full swing...Campora muppets creaming their pants.
It publishes the results (knowing where the votes came from but not mentioning it)
It watches the Argtards propaganda, including your ambassador claiming a “mood swing”
It then publishes the whole story.
If we had “organised” a counter vote programme, It wouldn't have made you look so fcking ridiculous....and it really did, again.
That's what the paper wanted to do...and it did it beautifully.
They say that there's no fool like an old fool----but there is someone more foolish,
Jan 17th, 2014 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0A malvinista!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ldiots.
#313
Jan 17th, 2014 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0From the BA Herald:www.buenosairesherald.com/article/149742/malvinas-poll-telegraph-now-argues-2_3-of-votes-came-from-argentina
There is NO argument. The voting figures were identified as to their country's origin. End of story.
Anyone with half a brain would have suspected that the published result was suspicious BUT the Argentine govt., desperate to make political capital, jumped in with both feet. Ms. Castro has made herself look more foolish than ever....and that takes some doing ! Will she issue a statement admitting she was wrong ?
@310 There's just no sympathy in me for him anymore. It was bad enough where he said “yes it was an illegal invasion” but the UK was wrong to rescue the islanders from people who meant them nothing but harm since it would have given him is East Prussia and they should have “negotiated” with the illegal government. Now his most recent crap about the Islanders wanting Argentine to “submit” has me totally surprised, since I thought he already scraped the bottom of the barrel. 3000 people living hundreds of miles away just wanting to be left alone are demanding “SUBMISSION” from the people he shamelessly admits *ILLEGALLY* invaded, *ILLEGALLY* laid undocumented land mines, *ILLEGALLY* held guns to their heads, *ILLEGALLY* held civilians danger-close to military operations specifically to precent direct attack, *ILLEGALLY* had false flag surrenders, *ILLEGALLY* sent in their own gestapo to terrorize the innocent population that just wanted to be left alone, and the all the rest? HOW? By telling the “reformed but unrepentant” fascists to leave them alone. That's what he calls submission. Disgusting.
Jan 17th, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How DARE you, Axel! How DARE you project your country's fascist obsession to conquer the Islanders onto these people who just want to live free like they have for almost two centuries except when YOU came to hold guns to their heads. You should take your act to the local rape crisis centers and tell the victims to stop harassing their attackers. What's the difference? You should try it though. You'd have your pathetic worthless ass handed to you in a bucket and no doubt you'd accuse them of being unreasonable and not familiar with your research how the b*tch*s really deserved it and should have just done what the man said.
What a disgusting waste of a life you live, Axel.
MONKEY MAGIC.
Jan 17th, 2014 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can't be more contradictory. I take your words, and i'll analize them.
If you think that the u. k. had no rights over the islands in 1833 becasue it withdrew it's population, then what right did the u. k. have in order to force our authorities to leave the archipelago in 1833?.
Perhaps your main difficulty is that you don't want to recognize that the u. p. had rights unless over the soledad island, where spain had exercised an effective control for 45 years. In the bibliography i dated in one of my comments, it's perfectly explained by a professor of public international right.
In contrary to what you think, i have always thought that actualy both countries had rights over the islands in 1833, i already explained them to you in other comments. The question is too complicated in order to make the too partial lectures that you and many other forists often make.
On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that if the u. k. would have found a negotiated solution for this conflict with the u. p., our country had exercised a permanent control unless over the soldad island, however, the u. k. acted as a true imperialits nation, and used it's superiority to force our authorities to leave the archipelago.
HANSNIESUND: In my comment 204, i made a deeper lecture of the years that you dated in your comment.
Axel Arg
Jan 17th, 2014 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why won't you reply to my comment to you regarding UN resolutions and Argentina's lack of successor state status?
You continue to claim you are rational and open to discussion but shy away from that which proves you wrong.
See comment 219.
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/01/09/active-online-poll-from-the-telegraph-shows-falklands-should-be-under-argentine-sovereignty#comment298560
ANGLOTINO.
Jan 18th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, i forgat to answer you. I read different u. n.'s resolutions in relation to colonial issues, and i could see that self determination was applied for those cases, however it never happened the same with the malvinas-falkland cause, in fact, since 1965, this cause has always been considered like a special case. Beside, it is analized every year at the decolonization committe, however, that instution hasn't said a word about the soposed application of that principle for the population from the islands. I recommend you to read the statement by norma edwards who was a lawmaker from the islands, before the decolonization committee, where she complained about the fact that this cause has always been considered like a special case, you can find her statement in the news archive of this website, the date is june 24th of 2010.
On the other hand, a few days before the referendum, the president from the decolonization committee explained the reasons why self determination is not applicable for this case, search his words also in the news archive, the date is march 4th of 2013.
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