MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina after Israeli fighter planes; concern in London and Brasilia, says defense expert
Argentina is considering the purchase from Israel of 18 multipurpose combat aircraft Kfir Block 60 after negotiations with Spain for 16 Mirage F1 fighter bombers fell through, according to a report from Buenos Aires daily Clarin. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAnd why do you think we have a defence shield in the FALKLANDS?
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And why does anyone assume that Argentina will be able to keep these flying for any length of time?
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cristina, we need to go to the right wave.
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIMCw1MdWm8&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
Knowing the Israilis they are powered by elastic bands ( special export models ) for 3rd world countries.
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glad to see Argentina have been reluctant to make the deal with apartheid Israel and hope that reluctance holds - despite the seemingly silly, petty attitude of Spain and most of the neoliberal world.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also as a Brit I must ask what kind of an “ally” Israel is being to us. But then they did hang our troops and rig their bodies with explosives in 1948, and fake our passports to carry out assassinations a few years ago, so this is pretty small beer I guess...
WALOB! The article is one big paragraph, it was like reading one of Conquerers rants.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0In 1982 the FAA were using the IAI Dagger as I recall (Dasault Mirage IIIs, A4 Skyhawks and Super Etendards as well). Supersonic with advanced radar and weaponry. Or so it was said because their performance in the hands of the FAA was somewhat lacking.
They were filling and fighting at the extremes of their operation radius but who's fault was that? They could have tanked them for instance. The FAA had tankers and considering that the British military seems to thrive on urgent operational requirements in war time and 1982 was no exception to this, I find it puzzling that the Argentine military could not see or fill the need as it arose.
After all they found new and novel ways to make thousands of civilians 'disappear' why couldn't they find a more effective way of dealing with people who fought back? Surely the need was far more pressing? Maybe that concept was way too far out of the box.
Anyway. A handful of Sea Harriers operating thousands of miles away from home were able to deal with them very effectively with short range heat seekers, guns and no AEW, I'm sure a handful of Typhoons will be able to handle these too.
And in any case, who is militarising the South Atlantic? I thought it was illegal or some such..........
Nothing to see here. Move along.
ok, to summarise...
Jan 24th, 2014 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 01) “Argentina is considering the purchase...” Considering? Sabre-rattling?
2) “the aircraft were designed over forty years ago, the refurbished model comes with a reconditioned US J-79 General Electric made engine” 40 yrs old re-furbs? seems the Israeli used-car salesmen have upped their game a little...
3) “other air forces have them, such as Ecuador, Colombia and Sri Lanka” Major global players all... Not!
4) will cost “500 million dollars ... is more than double the Spanish offer of 217 million dollars” - Similar to seeking International Loans -the Spanish have no faith in future bill payments being me,t so AR has to 'double-up' elsewhere
5) “It was Lopes who said that London fears the aircraft could be used to track and intimidate vessels involved in the Falklands oil and gas industry development.” Lopes says, not UK Gov.
Originally a short-range ground-attack aircraft retired from operation use by the Israelis in 1996....
So as @6 FFF says “Nothing to see here. Move along.”
Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you!
7
Jan 24th, 2014 - 01:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice summary
How is she going to pay for them?? With Olives?
Jan 24th, 2014 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0All bluster, it is never going to happen.
Three letters put a damper on any purchase for Argentina........ C.O.D.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 10 That is probably why Israel will only deliver 6 in the first year.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0UK should sell Typhoons to Iran.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0i see the typical childish “bring it on” and “my **** is bigger than yours” comments...
Jan 24th, 2014 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0there is nothing shocking about this plan. argentina needs to replace its aging air force and this seems to fit the bill.
for those who are interested in the plane, and know to ignore the silly comments above, here is the video by IAI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBTVHeSyP_w
to me, it looks like a very capable plane even today. with 4th generation technology built into it, its comparable to the F-16, according to the video.
as for “its a third world plane” - fine. we had “third world planes” back in 1982 yet we sunk latest generation ships with them. the world knows britain's monetary loss in equipment was far greater than argentina's in that war. the hms shefield alone was probably worth 50 A4's.
so its not the size that counts - its how you use it xd.
Strangeness, these vehicles are supposed to be sold for 20million a piece so wonder if they're actually overcharging Argentina? They also claim to come with a 40 year guarantee which means they'll be 80 years old by the end of their service. The same as “The RAF has now decommissioned the Fairey Swordfish as it no longer meets operational requirements” :D
Jan 24th, 2014 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@14. did you even read the article? the plane has been completely refurbished. the design is 40 years old but the technology of its systems and engine is current.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 03:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0the only real breakthrough in design over the past 40 years has been that of stealth technology, but the rest has not changed much.
this plane is no different in terms of capability than any other designed in the 90s.
just published on MP
Jan 24th, 2014 - 03:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Reserves now stand at 29.263bn dollars, having lost so far in the week 500 million dollars” - http://en.mercopress.com/2014/01/24/argentina-in-chaotic-trading-dollar-jumps-12.4-in-one-day-to-8-pesos-in-the-official-market
So, no new planes then? (will cost “500 million dollars ... is more than double the Spanish offer”)
just joking, I know I am over-simplifying, but it makes one 'Think', does it not
15: yes, I did, and then I researched elsewhere, and in addition to that I watched the youtube video you linked to for the “figther” jet (whatever that is) and saw lots of footage of strikes it didn't carry out (only one recorded kill in it's entire history, and that was in 1979) and lots of poor quality cartoons, they should've used footage from that animated film “Planes”. I was actually surprised I didn't see smiley faces on their nose cones.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 013 Depends on the value you place on each of Argentinas War dead.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 03:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“President Cristina Fernandez has been trying to boost the Argentine Air Force that in the last decade has seen its operational number of aircraft contract significantly because of lack of spares, maintenance and obsolescence.”
Jan 24th, 2014 - 04:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0and a serious lack of finance - hence the seeking a 'peaceful solution' to the proposed expropriation of the Falkander's property.
get real Cristina...
You can compare the Kfir with the Typhoon here: http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/compare-aircraft-results.asp?form=form&aircraft1=152&aircraft2=55&Submit=Compare+Aircraft
Jan 24th, 2014 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0To be fair it really does look like it's down to the skill of the pilots, the operational range, and the support afforded.
good point Boovis.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 05:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0And yes I agree “it really does look like it's down to the skill of the pilots, the operational range, and the support afforded.”
hmmm... let's all consider these salient facts... skill & support being the most crucial...
...
ok, the jury is back. Absolutely no threat to the Falkland Islands then.
off to bed to sleep easy....
I doubt it causes the concerns that this so-called 'defence' expert suggests.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Any attempt by Argentina to use any aircraft (regardless of where they are from), to 'intimidate' or attack the Falkland Islands or the oil exploration going on there would result in the UK defending the area, probably by initially firing warning shots, and then shooting down aircraft.
This 'defence' expert doesn't appear to understand international law, does he?
But if Argentina wants new second hand aircraft, then that is their right. But at the moment they are just 'considering', meaning that they're deciding whether are not that they can afford to buy them.
I am surprised that Israel is considering selling aircraft to Argentina though, especially as Argentina's newest best friend is Iran. How does Israel know that Argentina won't sell these aircraft on to Iran for bucket loads of oil?
You forget that Israel sold arms to Argentina before/during the Falklands war and that Iran (allegedly) bombed that nightclub in BA.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Additionally, the NYtimes stated last year “According to the Argentine newspaper La Nación, Argentina has started to collaborate on arms deals, including the development of missile technology, with Venezuela and indirectly with Iran”.
As you know, in international law everyone sleeps with everyone.
wouldn't worry about collaboration with Vnzla when they can't even feed their people. Vnzla is a failed state... unfortunately...
Jan 24th, 2014 - 07:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0@#23. An observation those living in the Falklands will not forget; Israel was a military friend of Argentina and the Merco article would tend to confirm that status even today. There is a need to be concerned if one lives in the Falklands.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0I live here and I am not concerned! Somehoe dont think if a stupid CFK would try to hassle a US Oil Company Platform inFI waters. Anyway they would be challenged and then shot down if they entered the area in an aggressive stance.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0#26 I think you are correct........one might see a floating airport and her little friends that tend to accompany it if that be the case.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought argentina was against the militarisation of the South Atlantic. It would seem however that this is only so when it wants to get moral plus points over Britain...
Jan 24th, 2014 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@14 Boovis. The RAF may have retired the Fairey Swordfish, but the RN still has two stringbags active, and are restoring a third. See here:
Jan 24th, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy_Historic_Flight
“Argentina after Israeli fighter planes; concern in London and Brasilia, says defense expert”
Jan 24th, 2014 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Call me cynical but sounds to me Mercopress have an advertising interesting in stirring things up - what expert? What concern?
Argenzuela will likely have little enough cash to even turn the engines over once a month and keep the planes from rusting away in the hangers.
There is no cause for concern here at all. The Argentines are trying to cause alarm (as they did with the F1) but like most things that come out of Buenos Aires, it's merely hot air.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina could not afford to purchase the Spanish F1 Mirage. They certainly do not have the funds to purchase the Israeli Kfir, let alone operate them.
That's why Israel would only consider selling 6 to start with. They want to see $166m up front before they would even deliver the first batch. As Captain Poppy put it..... COD, Cash On Delivery, or rather Cash BEFORE Delivery!
No nation would sell anything to Argentina without assurances that they are going to be paid and as Argentina has reneged on payment promises on multiple occasions in the past, the only payment that Spain or Israel would accept is payment upfront.
The Kfir is no threat to the British Typhoons. It's not much of a threat to the shipping involved in oil exploration either. It's charitable to describe the Kfir as a third generation fighter, because it's actually second gen. It does not matter one iota that it has upgraded avionics or engines, the fact remains that it doesn't have the capability to match a 4.5 generation fighter like the Typhoon.
As for the experience of the pilots, British RAF pilots get far more than the FAA. They are not restricted by fuel or spares concerns. They are given the very best tactical training and regularly compete against other air forces in exercises. Most of all, the RAF pilots have combat experience from both Afghanistan and Libya. The FAA's only experience was losing a huge number of pilots, because they were given the wrong instructions during a failed war of conquest.
Argentina is shit stirring. The Brazilian journalist says that London is alarmed, but that's only his opinion and it's wrong. There's no more chance that Argentina will get these aircraft, than CFK will sprout wings and become a butterfly (or moth!).
Governments of bandits are always a threat to the neighbourhood- no matter what arms they purchase.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
If there is any USA military technology in the planes we will probably block the sale. Also Arg has not been able to buy military gear from the USA for a long long time from an unpaid invoice FROM THE 70s!
Jan 24th, 2014 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's why they've had to cannibalize what they had for as long as they could. I guess they're done doing that though.
Well argentina needs some planes but unless they pony up the cash first.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Its not happening although the spanish deal may have fallen through because the french have some F1's going cheap they are quite keen to sell.
Can't blame the Argentines for wanting to beef up their military. There is an imminent threat from the Falkland Islands at any point the British could station the Duke of Cambridge on the Islands again. His uniform of a conqueror (Spanish for liberator) is the ultimate threat to the safety and freedom of 40million innocent unarmed Argentinians.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0And CFK is going to Cuba to sign on to the treaty making the Caribbean and SA a “peace zone”...really? Ever heard of hypocrites?
Jan 24th, 2014 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Great article, I think the author should receive a medal from The Dark Country for “spouting rubbish in excess of battle commands in the press”.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Or they could give it to Pepe.
He has done more than TMBOA to keep the argies in the press and the mouth wash industry in Uruguay going. OH SHIT! We don’t have any industry in Uruguay since this old commie bastard became president and allowed free rein to the unions, MOTTO “We can fuck the country up in no time, just watch us”.
While TMBOA can dream of these F16 comparable planes (PMSL over that little cracker) Pepe has his own dreams of a windmill in every town square and battery powered buses that will run out of power halfway between MVD and Punta. IF that deal WAS signed the crap Chinese buses should have been here by now. Is somebody talking porkies, surely not?
The Kfir is NOT a match for the F-16. If it was. why would the Israelis have kept their F-16's and dumped the Kfir ?
Jan 24th, 2014 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@20 You may have noticed that the Kfir doesn't have the range of the Typhoon. The Typhoon has about three times the range.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More importantly, the Kfirs have about half the range of the Daggers and Mirages the argies used in 1982. But argieland has no more tanker aircraft than it did then. Two KC-130H. Except that where they might have managed to tank a Dagger or Mirage once for mission completion, they will have to tank each Kfir at least twice.
Moreover, the Kfir has nowhere near the armament of the Typhoon. The Kfir has between 5 and 7 hardpoints. The Typhoon has 13. And I see no evidence of a BVR capability.
@22 I can't see the Kfirs being a threat anywhere. On the Falklands, the Army would probably use the Rapier. Elewhere it might use the Starstreak as it's man-portable. And then a Type 45 destroyer might turn up!
@26 Quite right. Additional Typhoons have already been considered. Could probably be there in a day or so if required. Aircraft to watch out for is the Tornado. It has an air defence capability, but is essentially a ground attack and reconnaissance aircraft. That would probably mean air-strikes. Tornados can carry Maverick missiles suitable for use against ships.
Boovis @20, from the link you supplied, the two do look evenly matched, but the link doesn't tell the whole story.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One thing that link showed that hinted at this is the fact that a Kfir has one engine rated at approx 17,000 lbs thrust, compared to the Typhoon's 2 engines at 20,000 lbs each. The top speeds may be closely matched, but the Typhoon would get to it far quicker - a sure sign of a dog-fighter!
The Typhoon was designed as an air superiority fighter built to match the likes of F-16's, F-15's, Rafale's, Mig-29's, etc, especially in agility. It can do ground attack, but it was designed for dog-fights and interception. The Kfir appears to be more like a Panavia Tornado, might be good at interdiction, but it's better at bombing at high speeds where acceleration isn't as crucial.
I'm not sure about the Kfir's threat to the Falklands oil industry, either. The Kfir's range (548 miles assuming no mid-air refuel) means it couldn't even get to the Falklands and back so only the oil shipping nearest it's base could be harrassed. The Typhoon has over triple the range (1800+ miles without mid-air refuelling) - it can get to Argentina and back and still have juice left in the tank!
This plane will threaten the oil industry in the same way as the Argentine threats of imprisonment did... in the vivid imagination of the Argentine government.
They could ask Mount Pleasant if they could refuel there, oh silly me no US$
Jan 24th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I could swear this story and its comments remind me of another one.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway good plane.
Clarin, the world famous Roberto Lopes, concern from unknown sources, zero evidence, smacks of sensationalism.
#13 has it right
“i see the typical childish “bring it on” and “my **** is bigger than yours” comments”.
Good video he posted too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBTVHeSyP_w
Especially the bit around 2:16. Is that a ...?.... no...loool.
QE Class carrier
Jan 24th, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/
its coming along just fine,
apparently CFK has suggested it flies the argentine flag when it enters the south Atlantic,
just to show the indoctrinated its theirs..lol
as for the deal for more planes,
perhaps it goes to show why we don't need enemies when we have friends like Israel ,
what a wonderful traitorous world we live in..
just an opinion..
How can anyone take the Kfir Youtube video seriously when it incorporates film clips from the film 'Topgun'?!
Jan 24th, 2014 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You would probably find the video's below more informative as to the capabilities of the Typhoons on the Mach Loop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjvgC1cKQGA
Followed by what it looks like on the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjvgC1cKQGA
You'll notice that the Typhoon not only pulls a tighter turn than the Tornadoes and the F15s, but also flies through the Loop a great deal quicker.
What we need is a minimum of 30 Sukhoi-30 with all their weapons, and so clean of all traces of the pirates the South Atlantic.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Something like what Venezuela has made the acquisition of 24 of those.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeLy5e3nx4E
So you are admitting that you want to commit genocide again -
Jan 24th, 2014 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“clean of all traces of the pirates the South Atlantic.”
Clearly the loss of 649 armed forces personnel, 1,657 wounded and 11,313 taken prisoner has not taught you that you cannot steal land that does not belong to you.
Argentina says that they are taking peaceful actions, but they refuse to take their claim to the International Court and instead threaten to imprison anyone engaged in peaceful business with the islanders.
If you represent the average Argentine and still want a war of aggression, then the Islanders need protection from you.
Ordinarily, I would feel pity for the ordinary citizens of any country that was suffering strife unnecessarily caused by politicians. But in the case of Argentina, the majority of the citizens voted in TMBOA and support her vile and illegitimate claims on the Falkland Islands.
So I hope they suffer and continue to until they give up their claims on the Falkland Islands.
REALLY BELIEVEABLE video: ha, ha, ha.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just loved “Major O” the allegedly F16 pilot! He’d got more ticks than they have in Miseria 31! It must be the drugs he is on for the over bright eyesight he has!
And the range without refuelling? These will never be of use against the Falklands OR the oil industry.
Still we have all had a real laugh at the argies again.
#45
Jan 24th, 2014 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you need is a brain.!
The way the Argie economy is going they won't even have enough money for biplanes!
Jan 24th, 2014 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny, looks like the whole Malvina's population is here. They have time to waste in silly comments!
Jan 24th, 2014 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see that India will be getting rid of their MIG 21's. Argentina could make them an offer.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#45
You have got about as much chance of buying the SU-30 than you have of talking sense.
@42 Just so you know. That lot will cost you about US$1.2 billion. Plus pilot training. Plus weapons. Plus fuel. Call it US$2 billion. Got that much? Oh, and the Typhoon is comparable. Remember how supersonic argie aircraft were beaten by incomparable British sub-sonic aircraft and equally incomparable FAA and RAF pilots? Now, if you could manage to buy 100 Su-30s it would be different. We'd probably have to send another 50 Typhoons. Incidentally, no Su-30 is known to have been used in combat. Bit untried. Perhaps you could wish for some Star Wars X-wing fighters?
Jan 24th, 2014 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 “UK should sell Typhoons to Iran.” OH PULEEZE. WHY would the Iranians ever need or want Typhoons when the Iranians have THIS:
Jan 24th, 2014 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/irans-new-stealth-fighter-jet-under-fire-from-critics-20130207-2e08q.html
It's probably more in CFK's price range, I am sure they can add it to the stab-the-AIMA-families-in-the-back deal of theirs. (I wonder what song it plays when you put in the 2-peso-the-dirty-war-was-so-AWESOME!-we-cheered-the-Junta-on-to-extend-it commemorative coin?)
To play at CFK and Tinpotman's game, perhaps UK need to complain about Argentina militarising the South Atlantic.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still.does not matter, all the more targets to make pretty flashes in the sky, and no way they can argue about a type 45 visiting or even an aircraft carrier, which will, after all have to visit all areas to test her capabilities, oh to watch CFK's face with our new carrier down there, shame she will be long gone, along with the financial system she has helped to wreck while following the mad Cyclops idea of running a country
46
Jan 24th, 2014 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Disappear all traces of pirates in our territory, is not genocide, no way. It is justice, and what would surely trash English would be if any usurp the English part of its territory having only legitimate: the islands (ISLAND only) British.
There is no chance to give up our indisputable rights in Malvinas Argentinas Islands.
“Clearly the loss of 649 armed forces personnel, 1,657 wounded and 11,313 taken prisoner has not taught you that you cannot steal land that does not belong to you.”
Moron. Defective, tells you nothing India, South Africa, Buenos Aires in 1806, Hong Kong, Ireland, Egypt, Sudan, Rhodesia, Nigeria, Guyana, Kenya, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Ceylon, Falkland Islands Argentinas, etc.. etc.
Oh, sorry. All these territories belonged to the “british” by (geographical, legal and historical) law.
Poor innocent those British, victims aggression of the Argentines.
@26 You live in a land that is not yours, but time to time, occupies.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@54
Jan 24th, 2014 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am without speech.... what a wonderful and weird reality you live in. It just proves that ignorance is bliss.
@54
Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your country is about to go down the financial plug hole and you're still making bellicose threats to conquer another country.
It's no wonder that Argentina is a backward country. They are even talking of removing them from the list of G20 countries. Mind you, that's probably because your leader ranted on for over an hour in an incomprehensible speech about how progressive Argentina is, yet you cannot pay your debts - even to the countries that were listening.
Your only hope is that China invades and takes over, because at least they have the cash to rebuild your country. No-one else wants to - even your neighbours. They would prefer it if Argentina disappeared into a black hole never to be heard of again. Let's face it, if your friends cannot stand you, then you better re-examine your personality or seek psychiatric help immediately.
Do the world a favour and stop talking out of your posterior.
56 nigelpwsmith (#)
Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:04 pm
Don't count on China, even they are beginning to accrue debt. Welcome to capitalism. If you don't get it, it will get you.
55 M_of_FI & 56 nigelpwsmith
Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's ok, it's ok....... The poster who goes by the tag of “José Malvinero” is in fact an argentine attempt at AI.
What they did in some secret lab in BA is feed the computer with all the known data that argentina has on it's claim to the Falkland Islands and then they linked it up to this web site and........and........ The result is here for all to see.
On the plus side? I do hear that it plays chess rather well.
I love the way the mentally retarded with the number 56, attempts uselessly to refute my arguments. Useless, Ja, Ja!...
Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 055 M_of_FI & 56 nigelpwsmith
Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See what I mean? They didn't say that the system was perfect, they still have to iron out quite a number of faults............
still, it does double as a teasmaid and an alarm clock as well.
52
Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0haha that article was funny....did anyone notice....
On this pic ..note the blue display lights reflecting on the underside of the fighter...
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/mt/flightglobalweb/blogs/the-dewline/assets_c/2013/02/309994_10151267004923603_758702725_n-thumb-560x373-171921.jpg
The photo of it flying...note how they forgot to photoshop the blue display lights out near the tail.....
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/mt/flightglobalweb/blogs/the-dewline/assets_c/2013/02/309994_10151267004923603_758702725_n-thumb-560x373-171921.jpg
60 toooldtodieyoung (#)
Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jan 24th, 2014 - 08:50 pm
Shame. I wish they had 'like' buttons for posts.
62
Jan 24th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Be a trail blazer and invent your own ....
60 ❤...or...✔
or ....why not stop being s lazy bar steward and just say ....I liked your post...
Your lots posts would all have 6 likes.
Jan 24th, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0150'ish is repeated votes counts, though.
I would glee on red numbers.
I'd walk the thin line between getting banned and beating Sussie...
it is of little consequence 2nd rate aircraft with twelve to be built in Argentine will take them years to have operational and even then is not sufficient either to invade or harass the shipping but no reason the Brits can`t see it as militarizing and escalating the situation then beef up the Typhoons to a full squadron, then they can buy another 12, any chance the Brits can get a back hander for helping the Israeli sell more planes?
Jan 24th, 2014 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 045 José Malvinero (#) definitely a good aircraft but way beyond Argentina`s price plus by the time you had them in service and operational the British aircraft carries will be in service with the new lighting aircraft new generation then the Sukhoi will be on the road to pension there is a very short time period for any Argentine advantage on acquiring such expensive aircraft, may be Venezuela will lend you theirs after all Chavez promised to help you against the British then the Brits can test their Typhoons and Lightings on relatively modern Argentine aircraft.
@65 oder 1001
Jan 25th, 2014 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0A good, well considered piece.
Thank you.
You may not have noticed it, but the Kfir has a Maximum Range of 882 km. The Typhoon has a Maximum Range of 2,900 km.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 04:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nearest point on South American mainland to the Falkland Islands and return is app 904 km. Do remember to buy a rubber dinghy for each plane.
FYI: My brother and I are also going to buy 18 Kfir Block 60s.
We are going to finance it in the same way Argentina will finance their deal.
The Argentine National Bank gives the government an IOU of 250 million USD, and the Argentine government gives the Argentine National Bank an IOU of 250 million USD. Together they then have 500 mio. USD they lost this week - exactly the sum they need to pay the first delivery.
I give my brother an IOU of 250 million USD, and he gives me an IOU of the same amount. Together we then have 500 mio. USD - exactly the sum we need to pay the first delivery.
As for concern in London - first Argentina has to train pilots, next get the fighterbombers, and then it's time for a friendly preemptive strike, like a couple of medium size nukes somewhere in Buenos Aires.
@ 67
Jan 25th, 2014 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“and then it's time for a friendly preemptive strike, like a couple of medium size nukes somewhere in Buenos Aires.”
As long as my Argentine neighbours are here AND the wind is blowing from the north, it seems like a plan to me.
There are 15M Peronista scum that need to be eliminated to allow the decent people of Argentina to make a new start.
@67 St.John
Jan 25th, 2014 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why bother using expensive nukes when we can just sit back and watch Argentina destroy itself?
The chances of Argentina actually being able to afford these aircraft is very unlikely, especially right now. The amount of time and MONEY that Argentina will have to put in to train it's pilots to be able to fly these aircraft...far more advanced than anything they've flown before...would take years AND having to pay another countries airforce to train them!
Added to that is the cost of fuel and maintenance, and it's doubtful that any of them could be a danger to the Falkland Islands, and even if they were, the Falkland Islands are well defended and the UK can bolster its defenses any time Argentina looks like getting out of line.
Argentina's military is in sh!t state and is in desperate need of new equipment - even if that equipment is second hand refurbished stuff. The real crux of the matter though, is that the Argentine government deliberately starves the military of money because they are sh!t scared of the military taking over again.
So the Falklands and it's oil industry is safe for Argentine colonial ambitions. It's Argentina's neighbours who should be getting worried about now.
You see, Argentina's military can't get anywhere near the Falklands (what with them having no decent ships, planes or landing craft), so any military action to distract the Argentine people from the economic implosion, would have to be done by land forces.
That means Uruguay, Bolivia, Chile or Brazil.
However, Chile and Brazils military is better than Argentina's, so it should be Uruguay and Bolivia that worry.
My guess is that Argentina will 'stage' something that they can blame Uruguay for and then attempt to 'liberate' them from their status as an independent sovereign nation.
It isn't outside the realms of possibility and Uruguay should watch any troop movements carefully.
@69
Jan 25th, 2014 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're correct, Uruguay needs to keep a close eye on their neighbour. Maybe they ought to reach an agreement with Brazil for mutual protection, should there be any hostilities. However, if Argentina collapses, it will be very quick. A matter of weeks and the crime bosses will have assumed command in their regions. The military won't have the means to stop it and the Police will do whatever someone says, so long as they are paid for it.
I expect a complete implosion. They might try to locate and apprehend CFK and her billions, but all they are likely to find is a corpse after her son takes charge. Like all bankrupt Argentine regimes, the fighting will turn inwards until dog eats dog.
As for the Kfir, it's actually a step backwards, not forwards. It's not as sophisticated as some have suggested. It's very similar to the Dagger and Mirage 5 that Argentina already owns and knows how to fly. It has similar drawbacks too.
As there is a desperate fuel and spares shortage, it's unlikely that the pilots will get much flying time. They maybe limited to an hour or so per month. They'll have to purchase a radar simulator to train the pilot how to use the new equipment.
They might even purchase a number of computers games to keep the pilots occupied. I've heard that some of them are actually quite realistic, albeit that you don't get the G-forces associated with manoeuvring. Not the best way to train pilots though, as the moment they encounter someone trained with real aircraft, they will lose.
It will be interesting to watch a country like Argentina implode. I doubt that the neighbours will be happy, but at least it will provide Mercosur something to talk about.
Only 18? what will the other Type 45's shoot down. Any aircraft of missile that get's within 100 miles of a Type 45 will have to think of a way to get through multi layered defences that can take out a ballistic or sea skimming missile. The world of air defence has moved on since 1982, I still don't see anything in the Argentine armed forces that can't be countered before it gets anywhere near. More so when the new carriers are built, each one would outclass the Argentine airforce on its own.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina invading Uruguay...
Jan 25th, 2014 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That makes no sense at all, whole of South America gives 2 extra armies per turn.
Oceania gives 2 as well and they are far less countries.
Besides, Argentina would only have to defend two fronts instead of 3 which is the case with South America.
That would also give them a great foundation for the Asian conquest.
That's 7 armies for every turn...
Be scared...
#72 I must admit you normally post drivel but that was pretty funny.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 073
Jan 25th, 2014 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He must have received that game on one Christmas.
Somehow, Mum and Dad knew he would like it.
BTW, NA and Europe are both worth 5 extra per turn
@ 71 Captain Byron
Jan 25th, 2014 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“More so when the new carriers are built, each one would outclass the Argentine airforce on its own.”
The TWO Typhoons can handle the argies non-air force on their own with their missiles being fired beyond the horizon they don’t even get to see their opponents.
13 Troneas
Jan 25th, 2014 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don`t wish to be over critical but F16 is now more that half way through is life the replacement for them for the US/UK is already under production with them starting operational service around 2018/2020 while the Kfir has a long and distinguish career with the Israeli air for it is worth noting they are being phased out of service simply because the high tech every changing air war makes them vulnerable in other parts of the world such as south America they can still be an effective system, however in the first world countries the technology is old and out dated. the British navy can and did go to war in 82 the difference is the British can absorb the losses on its fleet and inflicted destruction on the Argentine army, air force and navy it was so bad they have not recovered from it. the Brits on the other hand have replaced all their front line ships, aircraft, and army with new and modern weaponry and although smaller in number their destructive ability is far greater today than 82.
“ we had “third world planes” back in 1982 yet we sunk latest generation ships with them. the world knows britain's monetary loss in equipment was far greater than argentina's in that war. the hms shefield alone was probably worth 50 A4's. ”
only two points the loss of British ships were replaced by new and better ships
maybe it was worth 50 A4s, but Argentina could not replace the 120 or so aircraft lost and has never even now British history show they can and have come back from such losses/
you are correct its not the size its how you use it in the Falkland's war Argentina had all the size, troops 12000 British 5000, the 28 harries Argentina air force and navy in excess 120 combat aircraft ,it would appear there is more missing than plain logic in this case.
@ 76 Oder 1001
Jan 25th, 2014 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An interesting post and while you mention “it would appear there is more missing than plain logic in this case.” You perhaps ran out of text before you could finish.
There were of course complete failures to “manage” the strong forces at the countries disposal and this can be laid squarely at the General Staff.
Your pilots were skilled and brave yet with the deployments they were given were shot out of the air by a few Harriers. This should NEVER have happened and would not have happened if the GS had thought through the likely scenarios facing these fast jets.
This weakness has of course carried on to the present day with the GS behaving as if they own the place without displaying any initiative that would help confirm it. Have you ever watched some of the excruciating videos of the armed forces that litter You Tube? Dear me, they are so behind the curve it is embarrassing to watch.
While Argentina has this “calibre” of GS the rest of the world outside SA have little to worry about irrespective of the equipment they have available.
SA of course does need to concern themselves with the increasingly aggressive / erratic nature of TMBOA, even if all they have are these excuses for modern planes. But how do you think these “new” planes will ever make it to the air force given that Argentina is a busted flush?
@54 Please try to understand, you demented halfwit. One step in the wrong direction and your cesspit is soggy toast. Perhaps we'll send the Northern Irish. They like a bit of a scrap. And argieland is, without a doubt, a scrap.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course you'll give up your “rights”. How can you have “rights” when you don't exist. We're getting very tired of you.
Indeed, you are a defective moron. Independence. India - granted; South Africa - granted; Hong Kong - not relevant; Ireland - granted; Egypt - granted; Sudan - granted; Rhodesia - UDI; Nigeria - granted; Guyana - granted; Kenya - granted; Sierra Leone - granted; Uganda - granted; Ceylon - granted; Falkland Islands - self-governing BOT; Argieland - spanish genocidal cesspit.
Oh no, there's only been a few instances of aggression by argies. Mostly too cowardly. 1820 - argie pirate turns up. 1828 - treacherous german turns up and sells out to argies. 1832- “argieland” sends gang of murderers and rapists that murder their “commanding officer” on arrival. 1982 - argieland mounts major military invasion. UNSC tells it to get off. argieland ignores. Britain rips guts out of argies. In real terms, it took 55 days. From the first landings on South Georgia to the argie capitulation. Less than EIGHT weeks. And Britain only deployed less than 20% of its capabilities. See what you're worth? I've farted better.
@59 Dumb arse.
@69 Oh no. I definitely want to see argieland turned to glass and the majority of its “people” turned to shadows on walls. I estimate that I have around 35 years of life left. That's my timescale. But, behind it are 255 British servicemen and 3 Falkland Islanders that died for the freedom of the Islands. And many more wounded. Their sacrifice must be respected. And avenged!
@76 Please examine. http://www.naval-history.net/NAVAL1982FALKLANDS.htm
If you check it out, you will find that argieland started out by deploying 66,000 troops. Against 80 Royal Marines? And Britain deployed 10,000!
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dunno, Gordito here is treating me like a royalty, but think my balls are too big.
Jan 25th, 2014 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I insist his hands are just too small...
84 Stephano
Jan 25th, 2014 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ Dunno, Gordito here is treating me like a royalty, but think my balls are too big.
I insist his hands are just too small... ”
What sort of person thinks or talks that way?
You seem obsessed with your own genitalia. Grow up, kid.
:-D
Troy
Jan 26th, 2014 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ask Gordo, he felt the need to bring it up...
Don't shoot the messenger...
77 ChrisR (#)
Jan 26th, 2014 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I only mentioned the actual forces involved in the fight both of course could have committed more, the British had about 10% of their combat troops, the navy a higher percentage of its ships but naval FAA and RAF aircraft were well out numbered by the Argentine aircraft, what I was referring to when I said missing the other factors were 1. they used national servicemen against the professional soldiers of the British, 2. they failed to understand just how unique and capable the Harriers were in air combat role 28 interceptions with Argentine aircraft 28 Argentine aircraft shoot down for the loss of no British jets although 3 were lost during the war none was shot down by Argentine aircraft. 3.the British were better suited to the conditions the majority of argentine troops were from La Plata the dry dusty north of Argentina their best troops were kept on the mainland facing Chile. the British were better led , very good at fighting in the dark, my basic point stays the same the British did recover from the war Argentina`s military did not. I did not run out of text. Argentina had the advantage of time, numbers, and some types of equipment it did not add up to a win as his logic dictates. one last point I am British not Argentine.
@ 89 Oder 1001
Jan 26th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good post, I think between us we covered most of the important points.
@89 ChrisR
Jan 26th, 2014 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed!
(Although, @7 is not too shabby... LOL!)
@ 91 ilsen
Jan 26th, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree, I wonder who posted that? :o)
“Argentina after Israeli fighter planes; concern in London and Brasilia, says defense expert”
Jan 26th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who was this “expert”?? was he/she the editor of “A beginners guide to fighter planes”?
The fleet air arm took these guys to bits back in 1982 ( just over 30 years ago ). How many Sea Harriers did they take with them? 20??
Now the Falklands have 4 of the latest generation, widely regarded as the BEST strike fighter in the world, looking after them.
All this is pie-in-the-sky anyway. Given that the argentine economy is in melt down, do you really think that they can afford to buy these aircraft?
Even if they do manage, somehow, to strike a deal and get them, I have two little words for you:-
T45 fodder..................
80
Jan 27th, 2014 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hopelessly idiot. When I refer to “victims aggression of the Argentines”, I mean Britain British and not the idiots who were living in the Malvinas Islands Argentinas in 1982. They are not taken into account, even.
94 José Malevolence
Jan 27th, 2014 - 05:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0“... not the idiots who were living in the Malvinas Islands Argentinas in 1982. ”
How charming of you.
How about, “the aggression of the idiots who attacked a peaceful civilian population living on the Islsnds in 1982”?
It's all a bit of a non-story for me albeit some interesting commentary here.
Jan 27th, 2014 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0These planes aren't bad but they are old and a very long way from being top tier. Think more premier league (Typhoon) vs second division (Kfir).
I very much doubt anyone in London will be bothered, not only does the UK have the Typhoon but it also has rapier, starstreak and the utterly amazing Type 45 for air defense. That would lead to a completely one sided event if it ever occurred but its a non-starter given the plane doesn't even have enough range to get there and back.
I don't think it is a big deal if Argentina seeks to modernize its military in any way.
#94 You're funny. It must be sad that the dream of a “Greater Argentina”, where the Falklands are subjugated, is never going to become a reality - those islands are defended.
Jan 27th, 2014 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Face it, you are no better than your old colonial masters - the rest of the world has (mostly) moved on, when will you?
@94
Jan 27th, 2014 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina refuses to acknowledge that the Islanders even exist, because if they did, they would have to accept that they have rights, including the right to SELF-DETERMINATION.
Argentina refuses to take the dispute to the International Court, because they know that the court would accept that the islanders have rights, rule in their favour and end Argentina's claim once and for all.
The problem is entirely Argentina's, because you alone decided that as part of your national aspirations, you had to conquer land that did not belong to you. It's written into your constitution and as long as it remains there, Argentina will be a failed state.
A state that considers aggressive conquest the norm cannot be tolerated by other states. The last dictatorship which tried that route ended up starting a world war. But of course you know that, because most of the war criminals fled to your country afterwards.
Argentina has to accept reality, before it tears your state apart. You refuse to agree to economic norms and play voodoo economics in the hope that by printing more and more money, you can pay your debts. The last state that tried that, ended up with hyper-inflation and I'm not referring to the Weimar republic, but Zimbabwe. The only way that they could solve it was to switch entirely to the US dollar, but by doing so, they suffered extreme poverty.
Argentina's leaders think that by pushing the national aspirations button, they can distract the public from the ever worsening financial disaster. They think that by announcing the purchase of second rate aircraft, they can embolden national pride in your armed forces. But it's entirely illusory.
You cannot invade the Falklands as you'd suffer catastrophic losses. You cannot even invade your neighbours without being humiliatingly defeated and if you give your armed forces enough resources (ammunition) they'll ensure that your politicians meet a grim end.
Let's face it, Argentina is on a one way ticket to collapse.
@98 extremely well put Nigel.
Jan 27th, 2014 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I really don't think there is anything else to say on this topic.
Every one should move on now. See you on another thread soon!
@94 Then you are three times a fool, at least. Why didn't argieland try to take over the Falklands before 1982? Well, for part of the time, it recognised that, if Britain was prepared to take on the “might” of the French and Spanish Empires, and win, the little United Provinces of crapland stood no chance. It also wanted to be recognised as a proper country. Then, in the 1940s, it had its chance. Backed by Hitler, it laid claim to various nearby parts of the British Empire. A Hitlerite stratagem if ever there was one. Was there just enough intelligence left to realise that no-one in the world would have accepted “lebensraum”? So it just stuck in some “claims” hoping that the nazis would win. Admitting thousands of war criminals was part of the same plan. Guards etc would be needed for the concentration and death camps. Of course, the Royal Navy was still pretty powerful. The Battle of the River Plate must have come as a terrible shock. How did HMS Exeter, Achilles and Ajax cripple the pride of the nazi fleet? Right there on your doorstep. And you did what? Any sign of setting sail to “capture” the Falklands? Nope. But, finally, in 1982, you came up with “a plan”. By waiting until Britain's attention was elsewhere, you thought you could sneak in and create “a position” from which Britain would “negotiate”. You didn't foresee a war because you didn't have the ability, the capability or the guts. Took 55 days for Britain to turn you into whimpering has-beens. Compared to 1982, British forces are even more professional and capable. Just remember. There are 255 British servicemen and 3 Falkland Islanders that you still have to pay for. People defending homes, land, territory. Those 258 people are important to US. And, one day, you WILL pay. Politicians may conveniently “forget”. The people never do!
Jan 27th, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First, this is not news. This potential deal has been widely known for some time. Second, Brasilia is not 'concerned'.
Jan 27th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0English clowns, talk about attacks on peaceful citizens, when your whole fucking life lived attacking populations. saying of the inhabitants of the island of Diego Gracia?
Jan 27th, 2014 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The brits have typhoons, which are better than the Kfir aircraft, so why are so scared these fags?
Jan 27th, 2014 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is no comparison between Diego Garcia & the Falkland Islands.
Jan 27th, 2014 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only parallels are that both archipelagos were first discovered by the Portuguese & both were uninhabited until the late 18th century & settled first by the French. The Falkland Islands from France (1764) followed by the British in (1766) & Diego Garcia with French from Mauritius (1778).
After the Napoleonic war in the Treaty of Paris 1814, Diego Garcia was ceded to Great Britain & it has remained British Territory since.
To build the airbase the British purchased the plantations operated by Mauritians & the money was paid to the Mauritius Government. It should have passed to the Chagossians who were evicted & relocated to Mauritius or the Seychelles. They successfully brought legal actions to have it distributed.
The Chagossians subsequently brought legal actions in the US & the UK to claim that they were unfairly moved. They lost in the US courts & failed in 2 out of 3 cases in the UK courts. At all times the British Government has denied that the expulsion was illegal.
The Chagossians have not brought the matter to the International Court & they've been awarded a settlement by the British Government to cover all claims, greater than the amount originally awarded in the 70s.
Although they are seeking the right to return to the islands, this is unlikely due to the need to maintain nuclear security.
The Argentines like to claim that they were unfairly evicted from the Falkland Islands in 1833, but this is not true. Only 4 Islanders (none of which were Argentine), left the Islands. The United Provinces garrison was there illegally & ordered to leave. They did so without a fight.
The Chagossians did not own the land on which they lived. They were indigenous, but they were not natives. They deserved compensation & this was paid, but the British Government was within its rights to relocate the people.
You’re trying to assign blame & claim that Britain is at fault, It is not.
“The Chagossians subsequently brought legal actions in the US & the UK to claim that they were unfairly moved. They lost in the US courts & failed in 2 out of 3 cases in the UK courts. At all times the British Government has denied that the expulsion was illegal.” hahahaha you meant? to assume that what they are doing is illegal. I can not believe you are so naive.
Jan 27th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bringing up the Chagossians always makes me laugh!
Jan 28th, 2014 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0They either:
1/ Want Argentina to do the same to the Falkland Islanders which means they actually support what the UK did to the Chagossians
or
2/ They think what the UK did the Chagossians was wrong, which means that they support the right of self-determination for the Falkland Islanders and cannot support Argentina's claim.
Which are you adryan66?
Quite so, it's a Lose / Lose situation for Argentina bringing up Diego Garcia.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0You either support the forced eviction of people - something which Argentina constantly states happened in 1833, but in actual fact did not as only 4 Islanders left, or you support self-determination, in which case the Falkland Islander's rights supercede any claim by anyone else.
I suspect that adryan was actually looking for anything to attack Great Britain. He's probably fed up of hearing about his country's imminent collapse, as he's actually experiencing the effects and knows it's true.
On top of that he doesn't want us to bring up the genocide of the Amerindians, or the 'Blancification', the apartheid created by discrimination between European and non-European immigration established by Article 25 of the Constitution of Argentina, whereby anyone dark skinned is treated as a second class citizen.
You're mixing concepts. First my country has economic problems (I assume yours also the are, for surely you are British) does not mean that both in Gibraltar and in Mavinas, as in Northern Ireland are illegal ocupates. Second you talk about second-class citizens when the inhabitants of the Malvinas kelpers called you, and always depended on Argentina's health and fuel. A uk only interested in the Falklands for oil and because it is a strategic point with projection to Antarctica, so walk with your story elsewhere.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Usa and and uk are the excrement of the world.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Malvinas say they represent the people, in Chagos refuse to listen. If you want to take a position, at least take the same position everywhere, ridiculous and phony. @106 It makes me laugh the English royalty, especially Charles's face.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#109 did you really come up with that incredibly witty and ingenious statement all by your lonesome self? I think not. That is far too brilliant for you to have achieved that level of brilliance on your own! How long did the think tank gather and slave around a table burning the midnight oil to contribute that masterpiece.....12 hours? 2 days? a week?
Jan 28th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Such a wit you are.......halfway is better then no way...right?
110 Adryan
Jan 28th, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...but what is YOUR position?
There are two (2) reasoned logical posts addressing the Chagos and the Argentine contradictory charges.
The UK has settled with those people in court, and compensated both them and their government of Mauritius, who should have done something for them instead of just taking the funds.
So, again, what are you saying?
If , as you say, the Chsggosisns had their Self Determination ignored, and you say it was wrong for the Chagos,
WHY IS IT OK, for Argentina to disregard the Self Determinstion of other people??
Can you answer that?
@109
Jan 28th, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Attacking the Americans will only make it worse for you.
Still harbouring a grudge for the visit of the USS Lexington are you?!
@110
You've boxed yourself into a corner on Diego Garcia.
As Troy Tempest points out, you cannot support the Chagossian's rights without supporting the Falkland Islanders for the same reasons.
If this is a new stance of yours - to proclaim support for the Islanders rights, then I'm sure the Chagossians and the Falkland Islanders will welcome you to their fold......
but your countrymen will not!
@111 The truth can not remember how long I take, take the conclusion as I did with your mother.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You haven't convincing arguments have double speech, use what suits them in their favor, but sooner or later will end colonialism. Remember Malvinas uk only cares about oil you can find and Antarctica not for his people but had busy time ago.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@115
Jan 28th, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's attempt to take over the Falkland Islands, against the wishes of the inhabitants was an act of colonialism.
If you support the end to colonial actions, then leave Patagonia, because that was colonised too.
Then leave Tierra del Fuego too.
You just make it worse for your country every time you publish a post.
But you lot can keep both islands without any conflict of interests...
Jan 28th, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brit logic is a marvel, “all mine is mine and all yours is mine and if you act like us, you have double standards...”
You also have to leave Gibraltar and Northern Ireland. Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego are part of the territory of Argentina as a heritage of the Viceroyalty of Rio de la Plata, the fallacious argument makes no sense. Every post from you is buried more. It's simple to UN uk is colonialist.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Post 118 tells you all you need to know about being a hypocrite and Argentina's education system all in one single paragraph.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Congratulations adryan66.
Now sit in that corner while the paint dries.
@118
Jan 28th, 2014 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It appears that your teachers at school did not inform you that the United Provinces of the River Plate prepared a map of their territory in 1816.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_rio_de_la_plata_1816.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_rio_de_la_plata_1816.jpg
You can clearly see that the area claimed by the newly formed province claimed a rather small area of the former Vice-Royalty.
It also shows that there were areas marked as “Dominca Indigenas”, the native lands not owned by the United Provinces.
In the next map dated 1820 we can clearly see that the United Provinces COLONISED the lands to the north and some belonging to other South American states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_rio_de_la_plata_1816.jpg
It still did not own Patagonia or Tierra del Fuego.
However, in the Conquest of the Desert... more commonly known as...
THE GENOCIDE OF THE NATIVE INDIANS BY THE ARGENTINES
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_rio_de_la_plata_1816.jpg
Argentina COLONISED the land belonging to the native Amerindians, murdered them and stole their land.
Every time you post, you make it worse for your country fool.
You mean like you lot did to the Kelts?
Jan 28th, 2014 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@113
Jan 28th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What I said about uk and was usa not only for Malvinas but for all actions made over her dirty history, usa and uk are partners in illicit, are predators, terrorists, human garbage.
@120
Jan 28th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hahahaha you are a reliable source as unreliable wikipedia?, You want me to teach the history of my country, do not make me laugh. Speaking of massacres of indigenous people who have to say that England made in North America. Massacres in India. The killing of innocent people in Northern Ireland, I keep listing them?, Go to study circus clown.
109
Jan 28th, 2014 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0an Argie Troll poster
“Usa and and uk are the excrement of the world.”
114
an Argie Troll poster
“@111 The truth can not remember how long I take, take the conclusion as I did with your mother.”
117
an Argie Troll Poster
”Brit logic is a marvel, “all mine is mine and all yours is mine and if you act like us, you have double standards...”
To the world the English were and will be pirates, pirates do not comply with UN resolutions, everyone knows that the sovereignty of the Falklands belong to Argentina, despite the ridiculous referendum kelpers which is not accepted by the UN . Pirtas lose all sides.
Jan 28th, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0109
Jan 28th, 2014 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0an Argie Troll poster
“Usa and and uk are the excrement of the world.”
114
an Argie Troll poster
“@111 The truth can not remember how long I take, take the conclusion as I did with your mother.”
117
an Argie Troll Poster
”Brit logic is a marvel, “all mine is mine and all yours is mine and if you act like us, you have double standards...”
118
An Argie Troll poster
“You also have to leave Gibraltar and Northern Ireland. Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego are part of the territory of Argentina as a heritage of the Viceroyalty of Rio de la Plata, the fallacious argument makes no sense. Every post from you is buried more. It's simple to UN uk is colonialist.”
122
an Argie Troll poster
”What I said about uk and was usa not only for Malvinas but for all actions made over her dirty history, usa and uk are partners in illicit, are predators, terrorists, human garbage.
Now compare that to a UK/US post
120 Nigel
”@118
It appears that your teachers at school did not inform you that the United Provinces of the River Plate prepared a map of their territory in 1816.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_rio_de_la_plata_1816.jpg
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Provinces_of_the_R%C3%ADo_de_la_Plata
You can clearly see that the area claimed by the newly formed province claimed a rather small area of the former Vice-Royalty.
It also shows that there were areas marked as “Dominca Indigenas”, the native lands not owned by the United Provinces.
In the next map dated 1820 we can clearly see that the United Provinces COLONISED the lands to the north and some belonging to other South American states.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unitedprovincescirca1820.jpeg
It still did not own Patagonia or Tierra del Fuego.
However, in the Conquest of the Desert... more commonly known as...
THE GENOCIDE OF THE NATIVE INDIANS BY THE ARGENTINES
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_the_Desert
Argentina COLONISED the land belonging to the native Amerindians, murdered them and stole their land.
Ever
“Argentina COLONISED the land belonging to the native Amerindians, murdered them and stole their land”
Jan 28th, 2014 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like standard modus operandi for the brits back in the day, whats your point?
At the end of the day world opinion is backing Argentina as shown by the recent vote of The Celac Summit.There is no country in the Americas willing to back up The Falklands/malvinas..............
Jan 29th, 2014 - 02:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0127,128
Jan 29th, 2014 - 08:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0We stopped “colonising ” a hundred and fifty years ago, it's not acceptable in the modern world.
You want to COLONISE our land, TODAY.
You have no legal claim to the Falklands, Spain certainly did not pass them onto you, and your UPS, revolting as they were, could only claim the land they occupied, 1000 miles away from the Falklands.
Now, what were you jabbering about “excrement”, Sussie?
127 JL (#) what`s the point??? Argentina because of its own history is not in a position to point a finger. Argentina standard modus operandi gave it a try in 1982.
Jan 29th, 2014 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0128 aussie sunshine
world opinion backs peaceful resolution it does not support Argentina`s claim or the issue has to be resolved in their favour, as the UN resolution points out the issue to resolved in the“ interests of the population” and how can you do that if they refuse to talk to the islanders? the “interests of the islanders are paramount” according to the resolution Argentina is in breach of that resolution and every other that has been made three are three parties involved in the issue UK Argentina and the islanders and only the islanders can determine what they want, Celac is not the world its a very small part, Ban Ki Moon has stated the UK is not violating UN resolutions, as to the sovereignty issue the ICJ is available to Argentina but will not attend because they will lose.
At the end of the day you do what`s right not what`s popular. wear your hat when you go out in the sun
CELAC is world opinion?
Jan 29th, 2014 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL. Pathetic. Truly pathetic. 33 countries is the world? PMSL
And what will CELAC's statement say I wonder? Supporting legitimate rights I reckon.
Even I support legitimate rights. Pity Argentina doesn't have any.
Quite so.
Jan 29th, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Argentina had any legitimate claim to the Falkland Islands, they would have taken the matter to the International Court years ago.
The United Nations refuses to make any resolution against the Islander's interests, because to do so would make a mockery of the Charter.
Self-Determination is the right of all people, but as Argentina has been a dictatorship for most of her history, it's an alien concept to them. They simply do not understand that you cannot steal land that does not belong to you and force the natives to obey you. One of the reasons why one day they will have to hand back Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego to the native Amerindians.
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 29th, 2014 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#109
Jan 29th, 2014 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If that's the case then we will use you for arse paper - I can't think of any better use for you.
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 29th, 2014 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@128
Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
“There is no country in the Americas willing to back up The Falklands/malvinas..............”
But that's an obvious lie for starters.
Canada supports the United Kingdom and Canada is in the Americas, so your statement is untrue and you knew it was untrue.
CELAC does not represent all the Caribbean states or include the 2 wealthiest countries in the Americas.
The United States has not stated that they support Argentina. Indeed, during the Falklands War, they gave enormous support to Great Britain. Providing their best armaments and intelligence information.
Furthermore the United States refuses to pay any compensation for the USS Lexington raid in 1831, because as they pointed out, the people on the Islands pirated their ships.
At the time, they stated that the Islands were Terra Nullis, belonged to no-one. However, their actions since show that they support the British sovereignty and American companies are actively engaged in oil exploration whilst ignoring any Argentine threats or claims.
133 Insertdildoputting
Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“
Let this utopia to believe in self-determination because they never achieved and never will have the support of only one of the countries of the commonwealth, so why have not engaged penguins? ”
Ha ha ha (ja ja ja)... ENGLISH PLEASE !!
You show yourself to be just another “Argie Troll poster” like @109, 114, 117,119, 122 - big on insults, but YOU CANNOT ARGUE LOL!!
Contrast those Argentinian Troll Posts to the careful logical reasoned argument of “nigelpwsmith” @ 120
He lays it all out with links, references, and historical precedents why Argentina inherited nothing from Spain and UP had no claim on the Islands, being 1,000 miles away and IN CONFLICT with Spain, and more.
I suppose it makes you frustrated to look like fools, but I expect being reminded that you committed and celebrated GENOCIDE makes you look like hypocrites too.
Please tell us why you feel we should not defend ourselves from your next potential invasion and genocide.
After all, you just said the Falklands are not part of Argentina or South America, “you are not part of South America!”
Yes, we understand it - so does the rest of the adult world.
“Don't cry for me... ”
LOL !!
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 29th, 2014 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't cry for me Ickleputo...
Jan 29th, 2014 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0... all coments removed by editor due to incability...
136 nigelpwsmith
Jan 29th, 2014 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the Commander of USS Lexington used the term “ with out government” not the term Terra Nullis, if Argentina was the legitimate owner then the actions of Vernt was then the responsibility of Buenos Aires government and he acted under their orders the Lexington would have sailed up the Rio del Plata and shot up Buenos Aires for their blatant act of war, Argentina did not acknowledge or accept any liability for the actions of their so called “ governor ” as their own actions show the islands were never their territory.
12,130.
Jan 29th, 2014 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 01st of all I am not Argentine, colonizing not acceptable in the modern world tell that to they Chagoans, were is their right to self determination?? I guess you are “especial” that's why your self determinations rights are precious theirs is not. Argentina did not try to colonize you like back in the day, if they did they would have removed and shipped the lot of you during the initial invasion days and lost you mid way back to Patagonia like they did to their Communists.
@139 do not cry you, follow living with ass in hands penguin hahahahaha
Jan 29th, 2014 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0142 Insertdildoputting
Jan 30th, 2014 - 12:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0English please!!!
@141& @142
Jan 30th, 2014 - 01:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you can not construct a coherent sentence in English I suggest you do not bother attempting to write one. Back to school to learn the Global Language of Diplomacy and Negotiation. English. Yes, that's correct. You heard me. English.
Now! Both of you! Scurry off!
Yes, concentrate in grammar and ad hominem attacks, and look the other way.
Jan 30th, 2014 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0umm... although I do understand your 'mud-slinging/ character assassination' or 'ad hominem' refeerence, one feels obliged to remind you that; 'Comments must be in English.' Not Latin...
Jan 30th, 2014 - 04:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0You should be glad that I only assassinate characters, not my own population...
as Argentinia has a dark and RECENT history of doing so!
Not looking the other way, when so hard to ignore your current Government's failings!
@141
Jan 30th, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ colonizing not acceptable in the modern world”
That's why Argentina wants to colonise the Falkland Islands right?
141 JL (#)
Jan 30th, 2014 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0it doesn't matter where you come from all it requires is a person of fair mind, now you have raised the Chagos what point are you trying to make here? is it the Chagos have the right to self determination? which means you support the Falkland islanders right or are you saying a the wrong committed against the Chagos should be used against the Falklanders? now I don't know about your part of the world but “ Two wrongs don`t make a right” there is a legitimate claim by the Chagossians and while Argentina posters here like to hold it up as a one over the UK maybe they should look a bit further to see how they are tackling the problem by taking the British Government to court, with some success.
you are against colonialism !
you support Argentine claims the Falklanders have no self determination and can impose colonialism on them
and presumably you support the Chagos, so clearly two opposite views which indicate your are just anti British if not please state clearly what your view is it can`t be both.
he is just anti British full stop.
Jan 30th, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0RE #147
Jan 30th, 2014 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DEAD RIGHT!!
Philippe
Goodbye JL
Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think you lost that one!
Concern in London and Brasilia, says defence expert
Jan 30th, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently Brazil and Britain,
Retain the right to attack all argentine airbases, if they are deemed a danger to either the Falklands or Brazil,
So they say…
Apparently British and Brazilian military top brass and diplomats have been meeting in secret.
So they say..??
Both may yet see the demise of CFK for the sake of peace,
So they say..
.
@147
Jan 30th, 2014 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0how we will colonize something that is ours? intruder
@147
Jan 31st, 2014 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0when was it yours?
@ 144
Jan 31st, 2014 - 01:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0At least try to express, you who speak another language? corky, salt to the outside world, cavernicola
@144
Jan 31st, 2014 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0you have to go, this is a website belonging to Mercosur, kelpers not belong and are not welcome in South America.
2000 little people can not claim the right to self-determination. Kelpers never be a nation, will always have the shadow of Argentina on their backs.
Jan 31st, 2014 - 01:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that kelpers go to bed early, do not stay here either. there should be nothing to do, They're just small town boy.
Jan 31st, 2014 - 02:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0148.
Jan 31st, 2014 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I really don't give 2 bits about both, its just that this site is so full of crap, almost every article on here turns to a shitpositng festival against argentina and their colonialism, Really? I love English things except these rich do nothing, pompous islanders who get their checks from the depredation of the seas around there, it irates me, if you are so against colonialism have you done anything to support the supposedly same peoples in a similar situation? not to my knowledge, too busy riding your around your landrovers and ordering your chilean servants around it seems.
159 JL (#)
Jan 31st, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0well if you did not care then by your own admission your are indulging in that crap. the only correct way to resolve the dispute is for Argentina is to go to court and prove sovereignty, which they refuse to do! one cannot convict a thief unless its done in court, even in your country, innocent till proved guilty is the law. and Yes I have actively supported the Chagos against the British government, I don't drive a Landover, I have no Chilean servants. I am not pompous and I am not English, unfortunately what Argentina suggests for the issue to be resolved is in fact colonialism in every sense ,depredation of the seas? you cant be serious? your a victim of the malavista propaganda
Colonialism is the establishment, exploitation, maintenance, acquisition, and expansion of colonies in one territory by people from another territory. It is a set of unequal relationships between the colonial power and the colony and often between the colonists and the indigenous population.
the Falkland islands no indigenous population when first settled
now the island population are the people of the territory and its Argentina that wishes to exploit, maintain, acquire = colonialism the only legal avenue for Argentina is through the court
Kawasaki P-1 is next generation maritime patrol aircraft for Japan
Jan 31st, 2014 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.heinkel.jp/yspack/ysf_p1_eng.html
some say, we could have these,
keep an eye on those roving argies..
.
#161
Jan 31st, 2014 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see any chance or need to buy this one. The Nimrod MR3 was top dog but because of expense cut backs was dumped by the UK govt. It is now admitted that this was a mistake.
Another costly failure was the Nimrod AEW, Because of fuselage flexing in flight, they could not get the radar domes to synchronise. The software program was causing expensive problems. In addition, the bulbous radome at the nose interfered with the airflow to the engines and caused surges requiring shut down of the inner engines. Another expensive mistake.
Agreed,
Jan 31st, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but we need something..
@163
Jan 31st, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It'as likely to be the Poseidon, thought an A400 would be an excellent airframe (albeit needing an interior layout/modifications).
#164
Feb 01st, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Poseidon does not have a long -enough range for UK requirements.
The government blew it !! We spent £3.4 billion and ended up with nothing !
It was a stupid idea to rebuild the Nimrods. They were so old that the many of the original plans were lost. Retired BAe employees had to be located and brought back to advise on how to do some of the jobs ! In addition, the narrow fuselage made it difficult to fit all the systems needed.
The sensible thing would have been to build a new aircraft based on the A320 Airbus series. The price of an A320 is approx.$100 million. Nine aircraft would have been required say at a cost of $1 billion....£606 million. We would still have had £2.8 billion to pay for any strengthening work on the aircraft.
Many of the RAF Nimrod crews were seconded to the US to pass on their expertise in the art of anti submarine warfare. We had the best crews with decades of experience... now lost.
The British governments of the last 35 years,
Feb 01st, 2014 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0have a lot to answer for,
one tends to think they wish the French to go up,
whilst we go down,
now according to the latest news,
they may reduce the nuke subs from 4 to 3,
we are looking very silly indeed,
come back, erm , uhm , mmmm
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