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Maduro wants Puerto Rico to join Celac, a territory 'free of colonies'

Tuesday, January 28th 2014 - 22:38 UTC
Full article 89 comments

President Nicolás Maduro described the current CELAC summit in Havana as historic and revealed Venezuela has proposed that the group's territories be considered 'free of colonies' and thus invites Puerto Rico to formally join Celac (Community of Latin American and Caribbean state). Read full article


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  • Anglotino

    So Puerto Rico as a US 'colony' should join, but the Falkland Islands as a UK 'colony' have no rights!

    Ooooh I do love hypocrisy.

    Jan 28th, 2014 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Alfredo2000

    Maduro, you don,t know what Puerto Ricans whant. You look prettier if you don't get involved in our business. Independence in the island has a very small folowing that is around 3 percent of the population. We don't want to be part of Celac. We have not asked to be part of Celac. Nobody here cares about Celac. Just don't mess with us. You are not even welcome here. We are not communists or socialists like Raul the assasin of many Cubans. We all remember like he lied to all of the Cubans who backed the revolution initially and then shoved communism tonthem. Well I got news for you, they are all here in Puerto Rico and their sons and the sons of their sons. Why don't you come by and take Raul with you.

    Jan 28th, 2014 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @1 Oooooh quite delectable isn't?

    But on the other hand 'the Falklands/ Falklander Islanders don't exist'...

    Or was it territorial rights based on proximity to the mainland? (careful now Cuba, could be tricky....)

    Jan 28th, 2014 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GFace

    @1 Racism and Fascism for all to see.

    Jan 28th, 2014 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    No white devils allowed! Burn them, burn them! LOL!

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • macsilvinho

    Oh, how can a US State join independently? This man maduro must be on drugs or is completely ignorant, or has some kind of dementia.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    Cuba is an example of perseverance and social justice that we should pursue in America.
    The CELAC can be a powerful instrument of unity and independent economic development. It is time for us South Americans and Caribbeans to integrate our economies, strengthen our alliances and develop our world according to our own interests.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Fortunately for PR the PR economy is the USA. Take it by force brassie, because PR does not want to be an independent country but a state of the USA. PR will not nor cannot join. Not all latin americans are imbeciles.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    I suppose that means there is NO COLONY IN ARGENTINA, right??

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Ton

    Don't any of these Tin-pot Dictatorships and Banana Republics actually live in the real world ??

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    How come Brazzy@7 has suddenly developed perfectly good English? A cut and paste job?
    Odd, on so many other threads he is barely coherent.
    Just wondering....

    As for Maduro? Why do I call him Ma-Burro? Because I've never known a more ignorant, stupid donkey. Just because he now rules by decree in Vnzla he thinks he can kick up a storm with PR/CELAC? He may be big and bold in Grandfather Fidel's humble house of cards but I'd like to see him operate on a real world stage.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    A US state whose offficial language and culture is Spanish!!??and not English...

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tik Tok

    Brazzy may be coherant but he's still dribbling on. South America and Carribbeans should cooperate but it's akin to putting cats in the same room. Some are integrating their economies such as the Pacific Alliance and looking rather promising, but it's the other usual suspects that will drag their heels with their idealist views, and that lot will get nowhere fast dragging those that stick with them down too. Hence CELAC is like a one peso coin in Argie these days, there in name but actually holding little value.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    The Falklands/Malvinas is running out of friends in the Americas!!

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @ 13 Tik Tok
    Well put, pretty much the whole conference is just a jolly for many of these politicos, the serious politicians will be drowned out by the 'lefty' tub-thumpers.
    @ kangaroo
    Well which is it? The Falklands or The Malvinas? Well it can't be the latter because the don't exist so I take it you mean the former? Running out of friends in the Americas? What a ridiculous comment. Some of these nations will pay lip-service to Argie bullsh*t but no-one takes them seriously.
    Check this article for enlightenment 'dude'!
    Also, who wants to be friends with the failed states when we can do business with the functioning ones?
    ta ta for now

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Puerto Rico is NOT a US state. Jeez.

    Also CELAC will not say they recognise Argentina's sovereignty, just that they SUPPORT Argentina's LEGITIMATE rights over the Falkland Islands.

    Even I support that.

    Who doesn't?

    Pity Argentina doesn't actually have any LEGITIMATE rights. Not even the UN recognises any LEGITIMATE rights, just a dispute.

    Piss and wind and nothing more.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 04:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Venezuela News Flash! Currency Exchange Rates! Just In!
    (NB: Gov rate still held at 6.3Bsf/1usd)

    Lechuga Verde or 'Blue Dollar rates
    1 USD will cost a Venezuelan 79.31 Bsf
    1 Euro will cost a Venezuelan 105.14 Bsf
    (and 1 UK sterling? if you have to ask, you can't afford it!)

    Come on Alfredo2000, you must want a piece of that pie? You must want to join up? MaBurro says “Throw off your chains!”
    Or do you want to stay put and exchange 1USD for, ho hum, yes, 1USD?
    Tricky isn't it? (all sarcasm intentional)

    @16 I think we all support LEGITIMATE rights. Good call.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    “Pity Argentina doesn't actually have any LEGITIMATE rights”.

    And then we in Europe and the rest of the world wonder why Argentina has turn 180 and gone from one of our closest cultural/economic friends in 1900 to turning away from us today.

    When we tell an entire nation that they have no rights at all... hardly surprising.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    18 Nostril Teen Troll

    “When we tell an entire nation that they have no rights at all... ”

    CELAC tells The Falkland Islands they have no Self Determination, right?

    Is that what you mean?

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 06:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    What is CELAC?

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 06:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    I really can never be bothered to respond to Nostril. Partly because it's posts are pointless and nonsensical but mainly because it seems to be some form of avatar for one of the lesser trolls on here.
    yawn. ..

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    he thinks we're as dim as he is

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Troy....and he believes he is so smart. I almost feel embarrassed by his immaturity and foolishness with all his screen names. I've seen “tweens” with more maturity then nostril “the titti tobi boi” from Mendoza.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino


    “When we tell an entire nation that they have no rights at all... hardly surprising.”

    I did NOT say that. Cherry picking a quote and taking it out of context. Norty Norty!

    As I said:
    'Also CELAC will not say they recognise Argentina's sovereignty, just that they SUPPORT Argentina's LEGITIMATE rights over the Falkland Islands.'

    The qualifier was OVER THE FALKLAND ISLANDS. Do try to keep up dear.

    “What is CELAC?”

    Exactly. Unknown and unimportant. Not even known in the European Province of France by a EUian.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • inthegutter

    #12 aussie sunshine

    “A US state whose offficial language and culture is Spanish!!??and not English...”

    What has language got to do with it? For starters there is no official language at the Federal level in the US, and indeed many of the States don't have any official language either.

    Like the Falklands Islands, the decision on how they are governed rests with the inhabitants, self-determination.

    The people of Puerto Rico were recently given the opportunity to express their opinions on the matter. As I understood, they favoured statehood (over the current commonwealth status), and a new referendum is being outlined. Forcing any change on the people of Puerto Rico, as perhaps Maduro would want, is nothing short of imperialism.

    It's also worth pointing out that one country where it's citizens have not been able to exercise their self-determination is Cuba. It then seems to me that the governments of CELAC do not care about self-determination at all, they simply want to force their views upon the people of the region, otherwise labelled IMPERIALISM.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    I think the states should drop a smart bomb on this bunch while they are blowing wind up each others culos.

    Now that I would pay money to watch!

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    You can see how difficult it must be for some of the more moderate countries like Chile, Columbia, Mexico and other Central American states to be able to voice an objective opinion at gatherings like these. I bet the whole circus is hyjacked by the fascist Bolivarian block.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monkeymagic

    We will be a region free of colonies and force the Falkland Islanders to be a colony of Argentina...said without a hint of irony.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    *Puerto Rico's currency is the U.S. dollar.
    *Puerto Rico's national defense is the US Military.
    *Puerto Ricans serve in the U.S. armed forces.
    *The island uses the U.S. Postal Service.
    *The American flag fies over Puerto Rico's Capital.
    *Puerto Rico is subject to the Commerce and Territorial Clause of the Constitution of the United States.

    Good luck maduro.....stick to driving your 1959 Greyhound full of clowns
    around the Havana streets.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @20 It's what poor people use to make soup.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jwolf

    From what I've gleaned having served with many Puerto Ricans in the U.S. Army the vast majority have told me they prefer the status quo over independence or statehood. A tiny percentage of their countrymen want independence. But overwhelmingly the vast majority want to either become a state or remain a commonwealth of the United States. They are some of the most patriotic people I've ever come across as well. There are huge advantages for them to remain a U.S. commonwealth, mainly because they receive for the most part the same level of federal funding as most states, but at the same time they pay no federal income tax. It's a pretty sweet deal. And their economy from tourism alone makes them almost self sustaining. To think any third-world banana republic organization like CELAC would have any appeal to them is absurd. I doubt 99% of the Puerto Rican population has even heard of them.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @7 Why? You have an overwhelming urge to pick up seashells on the seashore? And hope someone will buy them? A clue. There are seashells on every seashore.
    @12 The official languages of Puerto Rico are ENGLISH and spanish.
    @18 Argieland is worth slightly less than any other smelly fart.
    @20 Don't know. I think it's something like shellac.
    @31 Strangely, research says 61% of Puerto Ricans want to be a U.S. state. Want to “explain” that?

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    #30 I thought it was an intestinal disease?

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jwolf

    @ 32
    What I gave you was clearly antidotal evidence, based on my personal interactions with dozens of Puerto Ricans over the years. I did not quote any official statistic. Why the confrontational tone from you I don't understand. The one thing that's clear is the vast majority don't want independence. And likely don't want anything to do with CELAC.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Logic

    Lol look at all the haters on here. Holy shit, haven't seen this many whiners since I substituted for secong grade! Stop hating so much kids, it's not good for you. European tin-pots calling Latin American tin-pots, tin-pots. Lmao! Hey, we all know Maduro is not the brightest guy but the integration of the region is, wether you want to admit it or not, good for the region. I say get rid of the US ass-kissing governments of Colombia, Peru, and Mexico then maybe we can get somewhere. Lets just try to avoid becoming the shitty EU which is tearing at the seams as we speak.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Show your true integration by ending exports to the USA and Europe. You hate the white man so much......end all trade........or STFU.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine


    61% want to be a state but with SPANISH as their main language one reason why Congress is not happy in making Puerto Rico a State.........

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    The only two worth anything are the USA and Canada,,,,,and Argentina's REAL friend are ???????????????

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    #37 those freeloaders from PR do not even speak English in the USA and our liberal ass politicians concede to them. There's more reasons than just their language that prevents PR from becoming a state. Hell....they don't even pay federal taxes unless they work for the federal government, a perk of being a US territory that most US citizens want to see end.....handouts to PR's They need to try the elusive concept of WORK for a change. Outside of San's all a shit hole and you can risk your life.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    Argentina has all Central,South America and carribean on their side....
    The Falklands/Malvinas have.....???? Great Britain.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    There in is the difference....Argentina needs something the their side....whereas as Britain is mighty enough to stand in the wind. You can talk about this until your balls fall off, in which Argentina's did, but the outcome will not change.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    41 freeloaders?? I bet you wouldn´t have the balls to tell that to the family members of the 18,000 Puerto Ricans who fought in the first world war or the 65,000 who fought in the second worldd war or the 61,000 who fought in the korean war or the 48,000 who fought in vietnam....would you??

    I think that the tree of liberty has been refreshed with the blood of Puerto Rican blood of patriots.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Whatever you think.......who cares? Until they pay taxes....they are freeloaders.
    BTW....the PR's of yesterday are muy diferente of those today. Then they had values and pride today they have open hands.....and again do not pay taxes.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @40 all that argieshitland has is when it turns on its side and says “Shove it up my arse, I like it”. Much like argie tossers. A different knob every 30 minutes. Can you spare us time? Especially when your mouth's full as well. Suck, boy, suck. Closest you'll ever get to a real man!
    @42 Cannon fodder. Which ones could stand up to a battalion of Royal Marines? Yanks always need cannon fodder!

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Faz

    #40 so what? The court isn't on yours and that's what counts. Crawl back in your hole and weep.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    On returning to Argentina, Cristina was quoted in the B.A. Herald as saying, 'I want to thank the support in the fight against colonialism that is taking place in the Malvinas Islands and once more urge the UK to abide by so many resolutions of the UN, the OAS and (best bit) ''every global organization in the world.'' Lol

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Chavez/Maduro/Bolivarian Republic of Venzla inaugarated CELAC:
    News just in:
    --- Official Bolivarian ‘Wonderland’ Exchange Rate in Venezuela
    BCV 6.3Bsf / 1USD
    SICAD 11.3Bsf /1 USD (Ancillary Foreign Currency Administration System)
    ---- reality check ---
    Blue or ‘lechuga verde’
    79.62 Bsf / 1USD
    Bsf 105.64 / 1 Euro

    Hey Cristina, there is your 'support' !!

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    Typical South American lexis-we want we want, must, demand-they've been reading Mein Kampf again-change the record fellas....

    You're wheel spinning in the mud again-pffft.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    See #38

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    I don't think he meant to trade them for shit...

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @12 aussie-sunshine

    So what are you suggesting with this emphasis on Spanish? That political boundaries should follow cultural ones? That's interesting, because it's in direct contradiction to your usual line that some principle of geographical proximity gives sovereignity to the biggest bully in the neighborhood. It's quite a spectacular feat to be simultaneously wrong about two things that are in direct contradiction to each other, but that's what happens when you have no grasp of logic and no let to stand on.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Argentines friends are shit....if you say so.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    I wouldn't classify you lot as friends of Argentina... Is this a new outfit you are trying out?

    A sheep in wolves clothing?

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I'm a friend of Argentina.....why else would I want to see asslips kirchner ousted, better yett....die a painful death, more so....see peronism go the way of the third reich.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    You lot wanted that in the 70's too.
    And you tried.
    It didn't help.

    Nothing will.

    We are chasing our dreams, not yours.
    Never yours.

    Look at you.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Stevie confuses sycophant with friend.

    Extremely telling.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Not true Anglolatino, I'd spot you in notime....

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Communisn is not all of SA's dream. For you lot and oligarch's in power it may be.....but not the middleclass the SA leaders are trying to get rid of.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Maduro is a pathetic nutcase.....Puerto Rico to join the CELAC family ??? has he got shit for brains ?? And as usual, @#7, Brasileiro and his stupid followers just couldn't resist showing how bloody ignorant they all are : “ Cuba is an example of perseverance and social justice that we should pursue in America”....I mean, only someone with shit for brains - like Maduro - would claim that ....I've got just one word of advice for this ignorant Brazzo : If you love it so much, go and live there...and when you realize it's a shitty place (excluding the luxury resorts for foreign tourists - out of bounds for you, ignoramus ), just remember you won't be allowed to complain....suck it up, bum boy !!

    Jan 31st, 2014 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Cuba is an example of a failing economy is base on communism. It is an example of an oligarchic government ran by the select, had chosen few. Unless you are in the favors of the Castro boys, it's highly probably that you are poor, Latin American poor and that is BAD.

    Anyone who would want to strive to be like Cuba is most likely in a leadership position and seeking wealth off the skin of the people of that country. It seems, based on past and recent history that most SA presidents strive to become “Presidente vitalicio”. The real sad part is that the people in these countries are usually so poor, they do not care as long as they are tossed a few bread crumbs now and again.

    Feb 02nd, 2014 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    I thought that in communism there was no state... At all.

    You sure about the drivel you are spitting or are you maybe a bit confused?

    Feb 02nd, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    61 Stevie

    “I thought that in communism there was no state... At all.

    You sure about the drivel you are spitting or are you maybe a bit confused?”

    don't you mean “Anarchism there was no state... ”?

    You sure about the drivel you are spitting ?

    Feb 02nd, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Troy his first two words in post #61 explains why he is always wrong.

    Feb 02nd, 2014 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Nah, I'm pretty sure it's communism that is stateless.

    You need to (re?)educate yourself.

    Read a book.

    Start with an easy one...

    Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Yes I will....The 7th Rise and Fall of Argentina..... (Deja vu all over again)

    Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    The only good thing about Stevie's posts, are that they are short....reflecting the size of his wee brain...imagine being sent paragraphs of absolute balderdash ??.....Now Stevie, take it easy, I'm being kind to you - I conceded that you have a brain.....

    Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    64 Stevie
    “Nah, I'm pretty sure it's communism that is stateless.”

    Are you looking to find fault, or just split hairs?
    Captain Poppy does not mention a “State” anywhere in his post.
    @60 Cspt Poppy
    “Cuba is an example of a failing economy is base on communism. It is an example of an oligarchic government ran by the select, had chosen few. Unless you are in the favors of the Castro boys, it's highly probably that you are poor, Latin American poor and that is BAD.”

    Perhaps you are referring to the “pure” theoretical, idealistic, Communism of Karl Marx, as he theorised about it in the 19th Century?

    There were many practical applications of Communism, as you know, and several ideas about what the model for 'true' Communism really is. The Comintern certainly went about setting things up in the image of Russia, creating the USSR, but there were others who saw that as an adulterated version of Marx's original ideas.
    China, Albania, North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, all had their own ideas that differed from the USSR and Marx, for that matter.

    However, if you asked any one of them, they would all proudly declare that they were very much a “State”, with Nationalistic zeal, but they would also call themselves a “Communist State”

    We were talking about the Communism of Cuba, right?
    I'm quite sure that Cubans would say the same.
    My 60 yo Government Tour Guide was very proud of her “country”, as was my younger, University-educated guide, though he was younger, far more free-thinking and cynical.

    Poppy also said,
    “Anyone who would want to strive to be like Cuba is most likely in a leadership position and seeking wealth off the skin of the people of that country. ”

    Stevie, your “Stateless Communism” does not exist - no government or Communist leaders feel it is “in their interest”, Cuba included.

    Feb 03rd, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Nah, Troy
    I'm pretty sure Marx defined communism in his manifest.
    Not an inch of a doubt.

    I'm pretty sure you are talking about the dictatorship of the proletariat...

    Finally I'm convinced you need to open that closet and... read a book.

    Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 68 Supa Tupa

    Try reading something yourself for once and what better than that of the as shown below:

    “one of their many definitions of a Communist society. It is taken from one of Marx’s manuscripts, written in 1844, which remained unknown up to the 1930s and was first published in Die Frühschriften (The Early Works), by Landhurst and Mayer; it is called National Economy and Philosophy, and contains a condensed version of almost all the major aspects of their later works, including the first formulation of historical materialism. [1] It is of great importance and help in understanding Marxian Sociology:

    Geewhiz, I can’t wait:
    “In it, the Utopian Marx rubs shoulders with the realist, the materialist with the moralist, the philosopher with the economist. In the introduction, discussing the various forms of Communism, he describes three different kinds: (i) ‘Raw Communism’; (ii) That having preserved a political (‘democratic or despotic’) or an anarchist character; and (iii) That which is a ‘perfect humanism and naturalism’.
    The first is termed ‘still barbaric and stupid’. In it ‘the determination of the worker is not suppressed, but extended to all men’. This barbarian Communism, ‘by systematically denying man’s personality, is precisely but the consequent expression of private property, which is itself, this negation’”
    Oh dear, not going so well, eh!

    “The second form:
    ... though already conscious of being the reintegration or the return of man to himself, abolition of human self-alienation, not having yet grasped the positive nature of private property nor the human nature of need, is still affected and infected. (Ibid)
    The third, which is Marxian Communism, is defined as follows:
    Communism as the positive abolition of private property as human self-alienation, means the real appropriation of human entity by and for man;” OH DEAR, I HVE RUN OUT OF ROOM FOR THE REST OF THE BULLSHIT!

    Feb 03rd, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Nowhere it mentioned a state...
    I don't know what you got there, but Marx' ideas about communism are presented in his manifest, the economic part in das capital.
    I haven't read the second one, it's just too heavy.

    As for agreeing with it or not, that's a whole other issue.
    You lot use communism to scare children with. Normal, as you grew up with your parents sccaring you. But in reality, you don't even know what the ideology stands for...

    I am no communist.
    You are aiming for clouds...

    Feb 03rd, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    70 Stevie

    “Nowhere it mentioned a state... ”

    That's right Stevie, and nowhere did it say it was “stateless”.

    As I asked you before,
    “Are you looking to find fault, or just split hairs?
    Captain Poppy does not mention a “State” anywhere in his post.”

    Here is what Poppy said, “Cuba is an example of a failing economy is base on communism. It is an example of an oligarchic government ran by the select, had chosen few.”

    Captain Poppy was criticising the MARXIST ECONOMICS of Cuba, a failing economy.
    You have invented a reason to take exception to what he said - still not really sure what you are getting at.

    Stevie, you criticise Capitalism, you criticise our governments and our states, and yet you defend and applaud states such as Argentina, Venezuela, and Cuba, which adhere to Marxist ideology when it suits them.

    You are in effect, telling us it is economically and morally superior to Capitalism and free-market economies.

    Poppy says' Cubas economy “ is BASED on communism”

    Here is that definition of Marxism that ChrisR linked for us @69:

    “... Marxian Communism, is defined as follows:
    Communism as the positive abolition of private property as human self-alienation, means the real appropriation of human entity by and for man;”

    If you are saying, “ because it is a State it is not Communism”, you have failed to show that is the case.
    Remember - you brought it up.

    My point was very clear - ALL manifestations of applied Communism (Governments that call themselves “Communist”, and adhering to Communist principles) are very much States, and call themselves such.
    They use Nationalism to bind themselves together, define boundaries for the distribution of public wealth, and as we have seen, also most importantly, define who is an enemy - ie. states which do not contribute to the collective.

    That is the ONLY form of Communism in existence.

    Out of characters for more commie bsing

    I know you will ridicule me for using incorrect terminology and jargon, but

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    come back Mr. Troy, I was enjoying watching stevie eating his daily biscuit...

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 04:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Thx iLsen,

    ...but I hope you see my point - others do.

    You have de facto, chosen to favour Marxist ideology as it exists in South America, over the Capitalist system for running an economy. You have not justified why.

    I know you have stated “I am no communist”.
    We also know you are no Capitalist.

    Well, what the Hell are you?
    You are a bit foggy on that one.

    For some reason, you choose to support states that are terribly corrupt and dishonest. They are, as you say, “Dictators of the Proletariat”.
    However, they do not SERVE the proletariat. There is mass unemployment and poverty, due to ineptly run economies using Marxist principles.
    They ruling elite relies on blatant Cronyism to govern and it is only they who profit.
    I suppose you applaud the Populist model of governing.
    Very egalitarian - pretty soon NEARLY everyone will be equal, a true “classless society”, everyone dragged down to the lowest common denominator.
    The bureaucrats redistribute the wealth will pocketing much for themselves and the country is too crooked for outside investment.

    Your criticism of Capitalism is... ?? Unequal distribution of wealth??

    You tell me.

    Ah, but you did say you were an “Anarchist”, right?

    Now, Anarchism is “stateless”, right?
    So how does that work?
    Here's a description, straight from Wikidamia (I know you endorse that):

    “Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates stateless societies often defined as self-governed voluntary institutions”
    “Anarchist schools of thought can differ fundamentally, supporting anything from extreme individualism to complete collectivism”.
    “ much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflect anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism, or participatory economics.”
    “The central tendency of anarchism as a social movement has been represented by anarcho-communism”

    I see where you get your ideas - good luck with that!


    Feb 04th, 2014 - 05:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Hurrah for Mr Troy!

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    LOL !!

    Talk about your “pseudo-intellectual idealists”, our Mr. Stevie is real prize!

    An “Anarchist” can be just about anything, from “non-violent” to “coercive ”.
    “Voluntary” participation in the economy and institutions...

    Regardless, their ideology can be based on “individualism” or “collectivism”, but it's economics on Communism, if they choose...

    Gosh, lots of 'wriggle-room' for Stevie - we'll never find out what he really stands for.

    Stevie can wear his black turtleneck and beret, sit in a Paris cellar smoking Gitanes, and drinking coffee as much as he likes, but when it comes time to put his shoulder to the wheel, he'll be nothing but talk.

    We have A_Voice for the Beat poetry :-)

    Did you read the article?
    It seems that the Bolsheviks AND the fascists, used the Anarchists as idealistic dupes.

    Our “Stevie” is prime material for indoctrination.

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 06:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Indeed an anarchist can be a lot of thing. As with atheism, it tells you more what a person doesn't believe in rather than what he does.

    I am indeed atheist and anarchist.

    As for communist, Cuba has a state and can't be classified as communism. It's more a socialist project with an implemented economy that has little to do with the marxistic one. CUC? I'm sure Marx never talked about a currency for tourists, even though I haven't read das kapital...

    Chech out the commune of Paris, that one was proper communism.
    Now, remember to take the historic perspective into consideration when responding.

    When I said read a book, I didn't mean wiki.
    I'm sure you can do better than that...

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Puerto Rico’s independence party has such low turnout that they needed to re-register after general elections. Puerto Ricans’ opinions don’t matter to the tinpot Venezuelan dictator or to the Evita-wannabe, because they need a distraction from driving their own countries to ruin. independence for Puerto Rico, which was handed over by Spain after the Spanish-American war, has never gotten much traction. In a 2012 referendum, 61% voted for statehood and only 5% for independence.

    Apparently, the first objective of that organization, as declared, is: “To reaffirm that the preservation of democracy and democratic values, the validity of the institutions and the Rule of Law, a commitment to the respect for, and the validity of, all human rights for all, are the essential objectives of our countries.”
    What do these people understand democracy to be? Cuba, like the other countries hatched by the now-extinct Soviet Union, is a one-party dictatorship older than half a century where no individual freedoms exist and no human rights are respected. While the CELAC is being held, the political police harasses and bashes the Ladies in White and the opposition democrats who dare to protest. Is anyone unaware of this?

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanquis throwing stones is modern art...


    Feb 04th, 2014 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Yes a real “Jack the Dripper” you are stephen......note. But a dripper none the less.

    I am so looking forward to the outright collapse of Argentina. My only hope is that it does not happen when I am there as I be traumatize if I were stranded there.


    Perhaps the USA should start calling for the re-integration of the territorial integrity of the continental Unites States and lay claim that Cuba is rightfully the USA's. After all it lays 90 miles south of the Florida keys AND....the USA has held a possessed and populated land claim.....Guantanomo Naval Base since the USA fought for Cuba's independence from Spain. Much longer than the Castro goons.

    We fought for Cuba, we posses land rights longer, Cuba is on our continental shelf, We have a population in Cuba.......yes....I see cause for a legitimate claim to Cuba.....more than Argentina has to the Falklands. Perhaps it is time to expand our base, remove the Castro's and all the people of Cuba to vote in self determination.

    I wonder what the outcome of the vote would be?

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    You can always try...


    You already did...


    Feb 04th, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Stevie's #76,78,80...just go to show that Stevie doesn't have the brains to carry-on a constructive discussion...his “”I am indeed atheist and anarchist” left out the third 'a'....'asshole'..

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    stevie....I mean Supa Tupa as ChrisR so generously refers to you. Did mom drop you on your head or dad cause brain damage from abusing your mouth?

    You confuse the Bay of Pigs with a legitimate claim to Cuba? AT any rate, that last encounter I recall with Cuba was with the aide of the USSR in October of 63. unless history is wrong, I don't recall Cuba or the USSR beating their chests.

    Now back to “you already did”. Please......enlighten us dickhead when the USA made a claim for Cuba? As I said.....based on RGlands claims and rhetoric, we have more of a legitimate claim to Cuba than RGland to the Falklands. I really think it is time to drain your ass because you've been used way too long Supa Tupa.

    To claim Cuba is moist in democratic principles is to claim that Hitler was simply misunderstood. CELAC is nothing, born of nothing and will remain nothing. The hispanics of the world is certainly cementing their fate as an incompetent race in world history by repressing their people and perpetuating government corruption at levels of historic proportions. Brazil.....the last great beige hope is obviously getting caught in the RG vortex. Say what you want, deflect, rant moronically, type meaningless post, but time and communism is killing SA.

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie


    Feb 04th, 2014 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @83....Hahahahaha!!......that's intelligent, Stevie...well done !

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    I'm not here to outwit you, Jack. That, you lot do better on yourselves.

    I'm merely the audience, here to laugh...

    The show must go on and you are a crucial character.


    Feb 04th, 2014 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Laugh.....if you had any concern for your latin american countries and the people of them, you would be trying to do something to stem the tide flowing out. Kirchner goes from making enemies with one group of it's citizens to another. Be it the police, middle class, supermarkets, manufactures and soon to be farmers she will be stealing from and the teachers again? WTF is wrong with her and that country? Laugh stephen....laugh....because you do not live there so it does not matter to why do you even bother posting here? The people that DO live in Argentina, it matters a lot to them the way she destroyed a country almost as fast as hitler destroyed Europe. You have a warped menial mind that is good for nothing. You are no longer worth a rebuttal and that in itself should make you happy. The best part of you was the residual crusty stain left under your mother's ass 15 years ago.

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @85, you're right SHOULD laugh, at your own non-sensical just don't grasp it, do you ??

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Stevie, SUPA TUPA

    As I asked earlier, “are you just splitting hairs?”

    If we must, let's call Cuba “Applied Communism”, there is no other kind, on the scale of a state.
    They use the principles of Communism, and adapt them, as suits their purposes...
    Oh! ...just like Anarchism - how about that!?

    and... just as Cuba uses some of the principles of Communism, so does Anarchism!!

    Gosh, we're really getting somewhere now.

    You, “Stevie” that is, are constantly defending the (Applied Communist and Neo Communist, economic and social policies of Cuba, Venezuela, and Argentina as superior to alternatives.

    Why? Those States have failed The People economically, while at the same time offering the least personal freedom.
    Other Applied ideologies perform better economically and offer more personal freedom.

    No good saying “but I'm an Anarchist, I don't agree with Communism” - you have demonstrated a personal preference for it, and your vague theoretical ideals of Anarchism are based on it.

    Criticise us and criticise Capitalism all you like, as I said before, when it comes to putting your shoulder to the wheel, to work towards a system that can feed people, give them dignity and personal freedom, you are nothing but talk and half- formed theories.

    In short, you are a naive pseudo-intellectual snob who has no clue.

    Take a good look at yourself on this thread.
    You are doing your best to avoid making direct statements that you know you can't defend.
    You know better than to be specific about Anarchism - Do you think it can work?
    um, in the real world, I mean.

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Troy I think Steverina was too trampled to return to this post.....he choose others to rant his drivel.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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