MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina's financial hot summer: record devaluation of the Peso, record loss of reserves
The Argentine currency ended trading on Friday, the first month of 2014, at 8.01 Pesos to the US dollar with an accumulated devaluation in January of 18.63%, the greatest loss in a single month since 2002. However market analysts described the situation as a depreciation 'sustained and managed' by the government of President Cristina Fernandez. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWhat right does a government have to tell someone to sell what they produce?
Feb 01st, 2014 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0If I was a farmer I'd be trying to earn the best price possible for my investment. And if a government was calling me miserly and a speculator for that, then I'd be telling them to f@ck off and perhaps try to live within their means and stopping printing more bloody money.
I'd wait till I was good and bloody ready to sell. The government is supposed to run the economy - so f@rkin' run it already.
Well Folks, it's time, time to start the official Argentina CFK madness meltdown debt-countdown clock!!!
Feb 01st, 2014 - 05:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0When it gets to zero there'll be the wonderful reward of either seeing CFK being lynched in public or alternatively escaping to exile..
I tend to think Hubris is a rather unedifying sort of feeling but if we're honest we're all here at least in part to witness the just response to the lunatic (and ideology) that managed to temporarily run the asylum that is Argentina, soon to be a basket-case again but with little more than kind words to come from the international community in the way of support.
And the cycle will continue, and there'll be a new leader, and they'll do the same thing, until such time as the Argentinian people finally come to terms with their new reality, which is that of a third-world nation.
So very sad.
“What right does a government have to tell someone to sell what they produce?” All dictators do that sort of things.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 06:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Everything in Argentine economy is just fine, the loss of 19.423 billion US$ is simply part of the Great Model - as a number of Argentine trolls and “Einstein”s will soon tell us.
Today is Saturday. I was here, I waited to see the heroes. I saw the zone, I saw people ...
Feb 01st, 2014 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am here in 05:12 am.......
“the government is looking for someone to blame for its own mistakes, as it always does.”
Feb 01st, 2014 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine farmers seem to have hit the nail on the head and the British and Falkland Islanders are in total agreement with you.
This is circular so it doesn't matter where you start or end:
Feb 01st, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BCRA Reserves lower..Peso Depreciates...Inflation rises...
At some point even the dumbest people realize they must break a cycle if it is destroying them
When will they understand supporting the Peso is making it worse faster?
There is not enough SOY to fix this problem.
Argentina will quickly decent into chaos as people's wages won't feed them.
This will be much worst than 2001.
Much worse.
*
Feb 01st, 2014 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-However market analysts described the situation as a depreciation 'sustained and managed' by the government of President Cristina Fernandez.-
It's time for the popcorn folks!
I can tell you, things are not easy here.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 Were you? Did you? Were you in the right country? Did you see the people rooting through the skips for food? Did you see them carrying off the lumps wood to burn for heat? The corrugated tin to repair their walls/roofs. But that goes on in the “favelas” as well as the “villas”. And you stayed out of your blankets for 12 minutes for that?
Feb 01st, 2014 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never mind..CELAC agreed with them...EVERYTHING IS FINE.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is no collapse underway in Argentina. But if one day there was, given the statements and actions rom governments all over the world against Argentina, it will be obvious that it will be the fault of the rest of the world, not Argentina.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 011. Yes obviously it is someone else's fault.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So obvious to Argentinians
The Man is keepin' me down
Grow up Toby
Marxist theory brought this imminent collapse upon you
You do realize at some point your choice will be to eat or use the internet
and that time is fast approaching.
12. Its just a continuation of the standard Argentinian persecution complex.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A rational way to view the situation would be to understand that CFK's administration has used, and fallen foul of exactly the same ideology that crippled your economy under virtually every other leader you've had in the last 80
And this time Argentina truly will be on its own - who with half a mind would invest in a country with such an ambivalence to the norms of property ownership, the rule of law and contractual obligations - without this stability any investment carries the risk of a 0% return.
But in any case - when you have ministers on Argentine tv blaming the rest of the world for the end to the “victorious decade” (a term worthy of North Korea itself) you would in most instances expect the population to twig that something isn't quite right - yet in Argentina a unique inability to even contemplate any form of self-criticism or responsibility (for anything) will ensure this crucial connection never gets made until the lights have well and truly gone out.
And all the while your regional allies are sick to the back teeth of your hysterical, pointless noise - endless hyperbole that they have to deal with while treading a fine diplomatic line between keeping their semi-retarded basket-case sibling drooling happily while avoiding overt offence to nations (such as the UK) that have reliable trading links and a mature attitude towards diplomatic relations.
If they feel “persecuted” by the international community now, imagine then how they will feel when Brazil truly has to write off every single cent of investment in Argentina as the death spiral nears its nadir.
And all of this could have been easily averted if Argentinians had the faintest desire to accept reality at the expense of being repeatedly flattered by the fickle illusions of a semi-despotic mentally-ill moron.
Good Luck : D
Argentina has see the reality. The reality is the UK, Europe, and North America are not serious and have never been serious in wanting friendly relations.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You talk about diplomatic relations but when have these nations ever actually shown ANY friendly attitude?
That does not justify the other side, but you can't demand what you don't provide yourself.
There is no collapse underway in Argentina
Feb 01st, 2014 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0we take it you live there
14. Ask your neighbors, Chile, Peru and Colombia, They are aligned with the USA and are doing very well.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now tell us why Argentina isn't.
Just how far can you devalue the PESO,
Feb 01st, 2014 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Before the currency become irrelevant..
The value of one current peso is 10,000,000,000,000 pesos of 1969 using the U$ as a reference.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is not new to them merely history repeating itself.
lol.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 018 yankeeboy
Feb 01st, 2014 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wow!! The Peso is a time machine?
Those pesky args have found a way to go back in time?
You wait, in six months time they will have gone back so far that they will be running out of their caves to bash each other on the head with rocks!!!
Good on them!!
Am thinking things aren't going too well for Argentina. Not to worry am sure something will turn up. Why not sell Patagonia?
Feb 01st, 2014 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is likely to enter recession this year…. Kicillof might just be able to manage convincing the private banks to acquire some money from abroad at god know what interest rate, he expects 10.000 U$S, but I doubt he can get a quarter of that and boss around the big cereal exporters to have some dollars brought over as payments in advance, still it gives the government some breathing space and more time and money to waste while not attacking the roots of the problem that got the country into this state.
Feb 01st, 2014 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 05:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has NEVER in 200 years been aligned with the USA.. So obviously not much to do with you or the UK either, even though they behind the scenes do work to destroy this country.
The Anglo nations are in steep decline according to all statistics, so it would make no sense to align now to the wake of a sinking rusting ship.
23)
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJjuZrObk1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJjuZrObk1A
Even at this late stage of Argentina's terminal decline some still believe all is well. Who are they trying to convince? - fellow Argentines struggling to survive or the outside World in the hope of begging a few more dollars. Perhaps in their warped sense of nationalistic fervour they merely trying to convince themselves.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Toblerine
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry sweetheart but you are wrong on two counts and a third when I think about it.
1/ “Argentina has NEVER in 200 years been aligned with the USA.. So obviously not much to do with you or the UK either, even though they behind the scenes do work to destroy this country.”
Wrong!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally
2/ “The Anglo nations”
Anglo nations is a Latin American social construct. A free perso would say English speaking nations. Oops is your Mendoza showing?
3/ “The Anglo nations are in steep decline according to all statistics”
Well now that we can see that you are prone to the worst generalisation and claims. Back it up.
Which Anglo nations?
What measurements?
What decline?
I'll only speak for my own. But you are wrong. We are not in steep decline for anything. Relatively or absolutely.
Argy brainwashing is working fine,
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0they live on cloud 9.
For “free perso” read “French person”
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0iPhone typing and eating pizza don't mix.
23. The USA has bailed Argentina out numerous times. I don't see that happening this time. There's too much bad blood.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We don't need Argentina for anything any longer. In fact it would be in our best interest to allow you to sink into oblivion until you look like Bolivia.
I've said for a long time in a generation Argentina will have living standards more like Bolivia than the USA or UK.
It is just a matter of time.
If they put a 50% tax on spray paint and fined the Porteños on the spot for not picking up their dogs Sh*t they wouldn't be long in building up the countries reserves, throw in a tax for not repairing broken pavements in front of their properties in a timely fashion and they'd be in G20 contention in no time at all.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@29 Yankee, You have not spent enough time in the provinces where many parts already resemble Bolivia.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@30 Considering Argentina has one of the lowest prices for cigarettes it would be a no brainer to put a massive tax hike on them using the guise of “health for the nation”. There are many areas where they can generate extra revenue. After spending 5 hours in the registro civil trying to get a change of address for my DNI, it is plainly obvious this place has too many dumb, lazy and uneducated peasants to ever be a 1st world country.
Jorge Capitanich reminds me of Baghdad Bob.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All is well, all is well, all is well.
as he is quickly packing his bag or cleaning his gun
and
Axel K, good gracious, over the top ego of someone who thinks he is smart but probably just average intelligence. He's always been surrounded by really dumb people so he has a swelled head but he is no more than the smartest monkey in the zoo. ( I've called Toby that on occasion)
What a nightmare that guy must be
There's an awful lot of talk of invoking the “Supply law” so they can confiscate the Grains.
That will be really fun to watch
Argentinian Inflation Rate Now 63%
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/letter-editor-inflation-rate-63-argentina
http://www.cato.org/research/troubled-currencies-project
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So they have a worse economy than Syria which is in the middle of a civil war!
When this hits the fan....DUCK
“Argentina has NEVER in 200 years been aligned with the USA.. So obviously not much to do with you or the UK either, even though they behind the scenes do work to destroy this country.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Anglo nations are in steep decline according to all statistics, so it would make no sense to align now to the wake of a sinking rusting ship.”
Up until the second decade 0f the 20th century Argentina was close to being part of the British Empire; so much so that a President of Argentina stated that it would be a good thing and expressed his thanks for Britain's investments and leadership in his country. This was at a time when Argentina was considered to be one of the wealthiest countries in the world.
Now, of course, it isn't and has descended to the status of a developing nation - the new word for “third world” or “banana republic”! And, of course, everybody else is to blame for this status not(ever) the Argentines themselves.
Living in Uruguay as I do and with the murdering commie bastard we have for a president it is a concern that our economy will suffer greatly when the inevitable happens in The Dark Country.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The shortages in Argentina are already being seen in Uruguay. Arcor, an Argentine company, supply many food related products, some of which are very good indeed but are starting to be spasmodic in supply. The same is true of Granix who produce wheat crackers with sesame seeds but they go weeks before coming back into the local supermarket.
No doubt everything from Argentina will stop being available before much longer.
apparently CFK is so desperate,
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0she is considering at tourist tax,
she may charge all tourist 10 dollars to leave,
rather than when they arrive,
cos no one will come .lolol
37
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“nobody will come.”
and yet buenos aires is considered the best place to visit in central and south america.
puerto stanley? not even qualifies. lol. LOL
http://gosouthamerica.about.com/od/countriesandterritories/tp/Popularcities.--j_.htm
http://gosouthamerica.about.com/od/countriesandterritories/tp/Popularcities.--j_.htm
http://gosouthamerica.about.com/od/countriesandterritories/tp/Popularcities.--j_.htm
http://gosouthamerica.about.com/od/countriesandterritories/tp/Popularcities.--j_.htm
http://gosouthamerica.about.com/od/countriesandterritories/tp/Popularcities.--j_.htm
@38 I think Buenos Aires was one of the highlights of a South American tour but people are less keen now. Why? Because people read the news. They hear about the La Campora thugs threatening passengers on cruise ships, the rising crime, the endless strikes and that the economy is in a nose-dive. CFK did this to your country.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do know of people waiting to visit and snap up the bargain property when the country reaches rock bottom. It is a a shame but that is the way it works.
5-10 yrs ago when BA was cheap everyone was going. I don't hear anyone going there any more. It is too expensive and dangerous.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The majority of people traveling to BA are Brazilians and they don't spend any U$.
The tourism balance of trade switched a couple years ago.
I hear there are lots of Hotels closing.
Great Britain and Yankeeboy.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok, you are right. Everything is now going down the drains, once again, it is all back to square one any time soon. Lots of riots and looting and pillaging when the money gets much more worthless than it already is... God only knows what will happen.
But I wonder, being just an English Teacher, and knowing only GCSE Economics, I cannot say much more than you do? Aside from taking some tranquilizers and a booze to try to stomach what is about to come, what would you seriously think Argentina should do to finally stop being a banana republic? (coz I have a good plan but it is so unlikely any politician would pick it up) Please let us all here know, the floor is yours.
41. The only hope they have is a Military strongman/Dictator ruling the country for a generation and wiping Peronism from their memories and or beings.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are a corrupted society and need to be taught to work and obey laws.
Basically an Rg Pinochet needs to come in and fix them.
41 Gotey
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not Great Britain or Yankeeboy. But, in my humble opinion, no one should be facing what is about to happen to the majority of people in Argentina.
So ( in my opinion ) this is what should happen.
1/ Elect a president that isn't corrupt, that will use the presidency to line their own pockets. Elect someone who wants to make Argentina a GREAT nation.
2/ Don't be afraid of the truth.
3/ Be a better neighbour. Not just to the Falklands islanders, but to All your neighbours in SA.
4/ Keep tabs on your president. As once said in “V for Vendetta”:- “People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people”
God speed.
gotey
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0asking that kind of question to yankee wannabe is useless.
the poor thing thinks we need a dictator.
says it all.
funny some of them think argentina has to be a better neighbour when we receive thousands of migrants per year, expelled from neighbouring countries.
@41 I don't know if you were addressing me. I was countering a comment from one of the blind faithful K supporters. For some reason they cannot admit that there is a major problem in Argentina.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do not believe for one moment a military dictatorship is the answer. Chile was an entirely different scenario and Pinochet adopted a free market economy in SPITE of his dictatorship. He kept government, economics and the military entirely separate. It was a unique situation.
I suspect Argentina will continue the cycle of crashing every ten or so years until there is a complete cultural change. I can't see that happening all the time there are the blindly faithful believing there is nothing wrong, everyone wants to be an Argentine, any problems are caused by outside influences and God loves them best. In other words Nationalism. It needs to be replaced by patriotism, realism, hard work (from a free market economy) and an understanding of the social contract. If people want to live in a free and democratic society they have to pay into society not just take. Every time someone doesn't pay taxes, scams their neighbour, dodges fares etc. they are stealing from society. It happens everywhere but only in a few places is it considered the norm and something to be proud of. Why do you think they sit back and allow their government to steal from them? They are only envious they are not in a position to do it.
Of course, it is not that simple but neither is the mind-set of an Argentinean. I have been told countless times in Argentina how they love to break the rules because they are 'free spirits', 'natural rebels' or simply 'Argentine' and yet they have allowed the K's to restrict their real freedom in every way. Maybe you could tell us why that is @41?
Obviously I speak in general terms.
The problem with the dictatorship apart that it is a obvious anti democratic concept is that we have had them in the past, and they failed both politically, culturally and economically changing the format of Argentina that was imposed by peronism. Ironically the possibility of a new dictator in the future has being highlighted by Elisa Carrio today as General Milani has acquired substantial power out of CFK last year and is definitely going to outlive her. The entire defense budget is focused on internal espionage so it doesn’t come as a surprise…..
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.facebook.com/notes/elisa-lilita-carri%C3%B3/narcotr%C3%A1fico-golpismo-y-reconfiguraci%C3%B3n-del-ej%C3%A9rcito-en-manos-de-milani/10151856559510740
https://www.facebook.com/notes/elisa-lilita-carri%C3%B3/narcotr%C3%A1fico-golpismo-y-reconfiguraci%C3%B3n-del-ej%C3%A9rcito-en-manos-de-milani/10151856559510740
Argentina’s problems is fundamentally cultural at this point. It’s clear to me now that the politicians in the 90s and early 00s knew what the path was to be but they didn’t make it on the economical front.
Ok, Thank you, all of you, for your opinions.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you say, Elaine is true. The psychological aspect, knowing the mindset of an Argentinian is key. I agree, it must be a cultutral change.
@43, thank you, yes, your program is interesting.
My plan in the long-term would mostly focus on changes in Education. Coz, as Elaine siad, it is a cultural change that we must address here.
My plan in the short term would be this:
1- Ask congress to change the part of the constitutional article saying that Voting is compulsory over to free-choice. I believe only those interested, in whatever degree, in the “res publica” (the public/nation affairs) should go to the polls. Those against this say the governability of the country would be put at risk since only a minor % of voters would go to cast their vote. But I think, it is much more damaging to have a government winning elections supported by a fake “big”majority in terms of numbers/%population than to have one supported by really concerned electors-voters. Also, politicians and their party-apparatus woudl have to work much harder and take the trouble to really debate and show the public what they have to offer. They would try harder to earn the votes of the people.
2- I would somehow find a way to qualify voters before the next elections. In every city and municipal region, in every part of Argentina, I would ask school teachers accompanied by university experts wherever possible, to give public open classes on: Democratic and republican values, why the separation of powers is necessary, the checks and balances of each, why every citizen should try and have the constitution at hand and know about it and know how to make complaints to and exact governments based on it. Why and how real cohesive nation-states operate, that is why tax-paying and tax-collection is important, why more than quantity we must learn to demand quality from all our services, whether they are state-run or private-run... and so on.
cabezadura2
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0agree, but the main problem with dictatorships is they are murderers.
that's why is so weird to hear some people here praising pinochet.
it would be like praising videla or duvallier
well, they are product of a poor education system, so no surprise at all.
Argentinians only respect someone if they fear them. They are not a smart people and they are corrupt to their core.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think a strongman is the only solution that will fix what is wrong with the Society.
What you call democracy has clearly failed. There are some countries that are not cut out for it. I think it is a very bad concept to assume it is the ideal gov't for every situation. Where it works is when corruptions is low and the population is educated.
AND THAT AIN'T ARGENTINA
@48 Government corruption, crime, neglect, car crashes, train crashes, lack of health facilities, drug wars, hooligans and unionist interlinked with politicians kill people in Argentina too nowadays. Human trafficking, poverty and abuse of power denigrates people every day. The question is what we do about it.
Feb 02nd, 2014 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everyone knows a cultural change is needed in Argentina BUT although cultures can evolve they are not under our control. The best we can hope for is small gradual changes over a long time. But that's up to our politicians and people with real power. All us mortals can do is vote wisely and pray.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@47 “Ask congress to change the part of the constitutional article saying that Voting is compulsory over to free-choice”
The peronists would never allow it.
“I would somehow find a way to qualify voters before the next elections.”
People would never accept qualified voting in Argentina. Also, democratic values is already taught in schools in Argentina, but since the government breaks half of what is in the constitution, it has the opposite effect.
@ 41 Gotey who asks “hat would you seriously think Argentina should do to finally stop being a banana republic?”
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0The joke about Argentina revolves around God creating the perfect country: Extremely fertile grasslands, incredible resources, beautiful mountains, ample petroleum and natural gas, powerful rivers, plenty of rainfall, great beaches, verdant forests, a variety of climates and animals, and so on and on.
But there are complaints “That's so much to give to one place!” “OK,” says God, “I'll fill it with Argentines.”
There you have the solution: “unfill!”.
50
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0corruption and ignorance have signed this government with the results you have described, and yet it is impossible to compare with any regime of terror.
about what to do, that is the pregunta del millón.
@53 In my opinion the 4 main unions of the camp had a magnificent chance in 2008 after the Cobos vote against the resolution 125, to form a new and real federal productive and conservative/libertarian party as a real and only alternative to centralism and the traditional parties and power houses of Argentina. What we need is people with common sense that have made their life privately and have provided themselves in the real world having not lived off in the public sector their entire lives. It can’t always be from university/militancy straight to the state but thats the CV of 90% of the political class, the Campo had that unique condition a independent and private background…Peronist power is based in masses of the suburbs of BA and I have EVER heard of any governor peronist nor radical willing to challenge the centralist structure and reform the fundamentals of this country. If we can manage to alter this power center from BA to the interior, peronism is mortally wounded. You cut the money supply to the “casiques del conurbano” who have dominated this districts for over 30 years they are gone. I believe that once you have a good local governance the rest goes unfolding upwards positively.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0@49 Yankeeboy
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Inspiring fear in people does not lead to respect. It inspires resentment. It is precisely the same dynamic that occurs in interpersonal relationships.
Respect can only come from trust - from witnessing an individual ( a leader ) or an institution ( government ) consistently acting with integrity. Citizens don't need to like a leader in order to respect them, but they DO need to see them respecting the institutions that hold them accountable.
'Strongmen' are not known for exhibiting these qualities.
@55Exactly !! This is the same resentment that was living in the shadows during the democratic governments in the 1980s and 1990s, however when Kirchner came to power he exploited this resentment, he radicalized and profited politically by reviving this feeling in isolated sectors of society that became the ideological backbone of Kirchnerism. What started as a anti-right wing revindication a sense of justice towards those who suffered the brutality of the military dictatorship and the need of putting in jail those perpetrators of Human rights violations eventually and within time and radicalization, it transformed into a instrument to impose Kirchnerist’s agenda.. A witch begun and the government rewrote history in the process to its daily needs.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@57
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0It will be interesting to see how the next government positions themselves relative to the Kirchner's legacy. Which feelings will they see the opportunity to exploit? Disillusionment perhaps? How honest are the voters going to be about why they kept voting for the K's?
@57 “How honest are the voters going to be about why they kept voting for the K's?” They will deny it. I remember when it was hard to find anyone who would admit to voting for Tony Blair after he fell out of favour!
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@47 Getting the influence of La Campora out of the school system would be a start. How is that allowed?
Reducing the voting age to 16 is a huge mistake. At 16 people are all idealism and no life experience. Most are not mature enough for independent thought. JMO
I understand from friends in Argentina that although voting is compulsory with threats of fines etc. for not complying, many do not vote without apparent consequence.
@57
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0It’s very hard to tell, but a catharsis of some sort is inevitable, there will be no more soy miracle and people will notice, things that have yet to come to light, some extraordinary corrupt things occurred during these years, and it will take time to process, but people will realize they have being completely fooled, of that im sure …. I believe that Massa and Scioli will prefer an ordered transition and power inheritance but having CFK done the devaluations, cuts and paid for the populist party before leaving. Kirchnerism will pact a cover-up with these peronist sectors. UCR/UNEN/ Socialism will be the biggest threat for their retirement. Macri and PRO party has slim chances but they are slowly opening up in the rest of the country. He is likely to move forward in free market lines.
Argentine society was always there telling power what to do or what they wanted even the bloodiest dictatorships had a tacit approval by vast sectors of society. Peron’s return in 1973 and his cleansing of Montoneros, the coup d’Etat in 1976, the invasion and war of 1982, Menem’s doctrine and then Kirchnerism 2003 onwards. Tacit support was real in all these adventures and extremes. Its proof of an immature society
@59
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Catharsis” - I wonder how much of that is going to be directed at CFK and her groupies. And how is she going to react if and when it is clear the public really doesn't want her. Who is she going to blame?
We are sing this right now, she is completely isolated, closed up and surrounded by her little world of Maximo Kirchner, her daughter, Zannini and Kicillof. Occasionally tweeting her frustration and rants aimed at Clarin and La Nacion, some banker or company or write whataboutery to her faithful constituency on Facebook and Tweeter. She only comes up on national Tv when there is good news to transmit …and good news is scarce nowadays. In fact she doesn’t want to hear any bad news at all so the ministers cant consult her of anything at all, they say she just brushes them aside saying “Don’t come to me with more problems you will give me a headache”… However as a narcissist she is, there is a possibility that she feels hatred for the people who have refused to continue supporting her, there might be some sort of vendetta against them coming up soon….
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0She had the middle class cacerolazos in november 2012 but what she is realy scared of is a massive uprising in the heavily subsidized peronist suburbs of BA, that is what had DLS brought down in 2001. You control the suburbs of BA you control the country.
Hi Boys and Girls!
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here are the HARD FACTS about the future of the Argentine Peso and the ALBA countries...
--- Official Bolivarian ‘Wonderland’ Exchange Rate in Venezuela ---
BCV 6.3Bsf / 1USD
SICAD 11.3Bsf /1 USD (Ancillary Foreign Currency Administration System)
----Today’s Reality Cheque --- The ‘Lechuga Verde’ or ‘Blue Dollar’
79.88 Bsf / 1USD
Bsf 104.64 / 1 Euro
See http://dolartoday.com/ 2 FEB 2014
UK Sterling? As they say, if you have to ask, you can’t afford it!
Enough economic facts, how about, real life facts?
My family in Merida are paying $20USD for a 4xPack of Toilet Roll. And the Trolls think this is civillised? Fresh milk? only if you have your own cow! Female sanitary products? NONE! Tyres for your car/truck? Will cost more than a new car....
Cheaper to buy a new car because USED cars are more expensive? wtf? Pan Harina? forget it... There is none...
Inflation at 79%?????????
but of course, they have La Patria... and my family must pay more for cooking oil that costs MORE than ANY where else in the WORLD, and would use newpaper for toliet paper, but oh no! They can't buy newspapers anymore... Now they are soscarce and the Free Press may have too close... Because they can not import paper. I do wonder why the Chavistas are not helping with this?
Venezuelanss are living in a country that has become a gaol because the Boli-bourgoisie Gov/Dictatorship owe a billion to the international airlines that have now stopped trading with them. Incarcerated in poverty, the people are!
Cuba 2014.02????????????????????????
Cuba 2.o (the version with all the glitches)
Chavez, I hope you rot in Hell! (My family and friends are desperate to leave!)
ARGENTINA - you have been warned - This is your future!
... nearly 80 f**king BOLOS to the Dollar? on the 'Blue'
THINK!!!!!
Brought to you by Ilsen Publications © 2014
@61
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for that - you are an excellent source of information. It sounds exactly like any number of examples of what happens when a corrupt, populist narcissist ( and they are ALWAYS narcissists ) runs headlong into the excrement hitting the air-conditioning.
And always HIPOCRITS too...This is what I found out the other day... Aparently they have erased it from the National Senate archive, but someone had a copy around and leaked it.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Given the anomic situation that is provided by the national government and under the circumstances of looting and chaos that the executive cannot solve nor knows how to do so, it is essential and urgent that Dr. Fernando De la Rua presents his resignation to the President's Office and give the government peremptorily. Otherwise, he will be responsible for the dramatic consequences provoked by his impotent management ”.... Signed. Sen. Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner December 2001.
No wonder she sees conspiracies , coups d’etats everywhere and people trying to destabilize her… She knows about that all too well, thats how they forced DLR out of office in 2001.
@64
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lol. Good catch that. Karma really is a bitch...
But WHO has balls big eneough to send TMBOA the same note!
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ha, ha, ha, they all DOOMED I tell you, DOOMED.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EH1G4EwljM
All of your posts assume that the citizens of Argentina are rational and educated. They are not.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are easily bought with trinkets and swayed with propaganda.
For gosh sakes they buy votes with $50 or U$4!
Democracy can not work in Argentina until the Society is fixed,like Egypt, Syria, etc etc etc. The population is not educated enough nor do they know the difference between right and wrong.
They need to be taught
The next generation ( in grade school now) is already indoctrinated and ruined.
A strongman must concentrate on the upcoming generation and fix them. Teach them to work, do the right thing, pay taxed, obey laws and know that there are SERIOUS consequences not to do them.
No way can an elected gov't do this
The Society is too far gone, too corrupted, it is doomed.
Thank goodness I no longer live there, there are tough times ahead.
@67 I can't agree with a lot of what you say. :) There is an element, represented by TTT, that seem beyond hope. They are so indoctrinated with the key elements of Nationalism that they cannot see that they are the architects of their own downfall. They just cannot look critically at their government because they are taught that to criticise anything is to criticise everything. But I have met many Argentines that do not fit that profile. Good people.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Corrupt societies can be successful. Italy, for all its endemic and societal corruption, has remained in the top ten economies. If the Italians had the work ethic of, say, the Japanese, they would be running the world. (Yes they have had problems as all western economies have but they turned a corner at the end of last year). My point being that some societies prosper despite corruption.
The problem is when corruption is endemic in a developing country it can never really develop. So you get boom and bust in an endless cycle. And the problem becomes magnified when a society inculcated with corruption trades with a country where corruption is abhorred.
I don't believe all societies have to work to the same paradigm. But when every generation is experiencing such hardship bought on by successive failed governments there needs to be a shift in the culture.
It is going to be a terrible time ahead for a lot of Argentine people. The best consolation would be to make CFK and her gang of thieves accountable.
68. Good point about Italy! But history will tell us that Argentina will do exactly what they have done the last 3 generation. They've never broken the cycle of bad government and I don't see that happening without something or someone to fix it.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know there are decent people in Argentina. I lived there and never met anyone like Toby. Never. But I did meet a lof of people who taught me how to bribe, pay for expedited gov't services, etc and never gave it a second thought. These were the decent people. The educated middle class.
I just don't see how this shrinking decent population will ever be able to elect a un-corruptible Prez that wants to see the country succeed and not line their own pockets.
I just don't see it
@67 “Democracy can not work in Argentina until the Society is fixed,like Egypt, Syria, etc etc etc.”
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are insane. I guess you like Assad?
@69 Yes, I agree that Argentina seems stuck and unable to break the cycle.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I also agree about the acceptability of corruption to the majority. We tend to associate it with criminals at the bottom and top of society but in a country where it is socially acceptable, anyone and everyone will not give a second thought to scamming even a friend. There is a saying in Italy that roughly translates to ' if you haven't conned someone today, it is a bad day'. And they admire people that get away with it. They see it as beating the system, rather than stealing. This attitude seems to have been imported to Buenos Aires.
My point, if you can find it in my rambling, is that if it is socially acceptable, no one will give it a second thought because they do not think they have done anything wrong.
Italy, as a developed country, seems able to survive it. Argentina is not grown up enough as a country to prosper under the same rules.
In the way that Capitanich keeps banging on about anyone putting up prices as being unpatriotic, they should be inculcating people with the sense that corruption is unpatriotic. Obviously not this government but in the future.
No my mother had me tested.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Democracy, if that's even the goal in Syria, won't work until the Society is smart enough to handle it. Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya to name a few and I put Argentina in with that bunch.
Democracy has clearly failed in Argentina.
Try something else.
69....just because you mixed with those types of peoples doesnt mean all of argentina is like that. american culture is like that, not argentine. argentina has been manipulated by everyone into bad contracts etc. wait and see what happens next.the IMF will come in to save the day and then they will own argentina and rape it until there is nothing left.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 073. Ahh indoctrination at it's best!
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Rg defence of “the man is keepin' me down.”
Blame “The Others”
You have been brainwashed and I'm quite sure you'll deny it.
@73
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL
I once drove from Montana to California and never had to pay any bribes. I can't drive from here to San Juan without police asking for money.
And who said Argentina at this moment is a democracy?? IMO the problem is a lack of democracy not a failure of it.... And I’m talking completely different things, I think that Argentina’s main problem is apathy in its society, education is neutral, you can be a lawyer or any graduate of any kind and still be a real son of a bitch …What you fail to understand is that what you say has being done before. This is exactly what Gen. Videla wanted a grand new convergence and road model that had to be accepted by the whole Argentine society and political class, he talked a extensively about it in 1979, he even said that peronism (min 8:40 longest vid) had to be adjusted and to fit in the normal parameters of a civil party abandoning populism, demagoguism, authoritarianism and personalism, to participate in the future. That’s why the dictatorship was called a “Process of national reorganization”. And I even agree with him as to regards to peronism, becuase peronism is not democratic..
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjjjsnHnZ1Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjjjsnHnZ1Y
But do you think bribes bureaucracy did not exist during the military dictatorships in Argentina??...Plus THE LAST TWO CIVIL presidents have had unprecedented power to fix the fundamentals of the country and where unable to do so. The power structure of the country is profoundly centralised too, hence my comment on #59
@72 And dictatorships don´t respect basic human rights and murder thousands of people. Even a failed democracy is better than a dictatorship. Plus, you seem to forget dictatorships in Argentina failed harder than democracy.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 076) Sorry hence my comment on #54
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 077) “you seem to forget dictatorships in Argentina failed harder than democracy.” I dont agree with yankeeboy but I would not subscribe to that either...
You seem to forget the military dictatorships had tacitly the support of vast sectors of society. Argentina may not well be a complete dictatorship at this moment but is not a democracy either.
Even a failed democracy is better than a dictatorship
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's your opinion.
I don't forget anything, the last dictatorship what not the best one. Maybe the next will be better.
As I have said whatever you call the kind of gov't structure you've had over the last few generations has clearly failed. Argentina is the fastest country moving DOWN the GDP scale in the world!
It is up to the population to fix it or have someone fix it for you.
Now is the time to decide and I don't see mass demonstrations like in Egypt which is quite telling.
Who are you talking to me or MagnusMaster??
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Both of you I guess. You seem to at least recognize there is a problem but Magnus has his head in the sand.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If something isn't working, hasn't worked over generations, you need to try something else.
I don't see how that could be an issue.
I think where you two are disagreeing with me is that you think this so-called democracy you have in Argentina will somehow someday work.
I say it won't work, ever.
So be my guest try again if you must
My guess is you'll be poorer,more fearful and less educated if you choose that path. The history is plain to see.
I've been on here a long time.
I've said all along nothing changed in Argentina, the won decade will turn into a lost generation or two. I was berated, called an idiot and every other name they could think of.
Well, turns out I was right and all the trolls were wrong.
I hope they heeded my advice and stocked up on non-perishables to trade.
I believe it was Albert Einstein who defined insanity as repeating the same mistake over and over again whilst expecting a different result every time.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By that definition the whole of Argentina is insane.
;-D
81) I think Argentina has very bright and intellegent people in the interio, if you had read comment #54 you would more or less have a clue of what kind form Argentina should take in my opinion.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is a very high probability of a “africanization” of the country in the next couple of years.
@81 “Both of you I guess. You seem to at least recognize there is a problem but Magnus has his head in the sand.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If something isn't working, hasn't worked over generations, you need to try something else.
I don't see how that could be an issue.
I think where you two are disagreeing with me is that you think this so-called democracy you have in Argentina will somehow someday work.
I say it won't work, ever.
So be my guest try again if you must
My guess is you'll be poorer,more fearful and less educated if you choose that path. The history is plain to see.”
What you suggest is a bloddy dictatorship that murders thousands of people. That is NEVER acceptable. The ends don´t justify the means. Now, if you want to suggest an alternative that doesn´t involve violence, I´m all ears.
A dictatorship is not the answer. Would you live under a dictatorship?
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is easy to confuse what happened to Chile's economy whilst under a dictatorship. Free market economies and dictatorships are not the usual bedfellows.
When you look at the changes to South American politics over the last few decades it is quite possible to see a different future for Argentina. It might just be possible now Chavez has gone (though he seemed to be regarded as a clown by most Argentines) and Castro is unlikely to live much longer. Charismatic leaders can have entire countries in their thrall and both acted as dictators. CFK by comparison is a light-weight but aligning herself with both gave the Argentines a belief that they were part of some great plan. Part of the gang, as it were. As the false bolivarian revolution peters out it may be the opportunity for change.
83. Yes the urban poor are part of the problem. Having BA be the Gov't, $ and population center is a problem.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We're having issues in some states in the USA with that right now. The cities are very liberal but the outer parts of the states are conservative. I think in the end the conservative parts of the states will win as they start to rebel and oust the liberal leaders. CO WI and MI it is happening right now.
The problem is, the European/North American system has nothing worth imitation either. 100 years ago? Perhaps, but then again back then Argentina was part of the liberalism that existed in Europe and North America at that time.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So aligning with Europeans and North Americans is completely out of the question. That would be repeating a past mistake also.
86) What the farm unions and the interior should have done was form a sort of equivalent to the US tea party, but not joined in any of the traditional parties of cowards, bureaucrats, outdated, idea-less, uncreative and corrupted opposition like they eventually did, and that lead to their death in politics. They should have presented themselves as the only real and unique alternative able to restore the success of the early 1900s, traditional values, and a chance of being a real federal country again. They did a profound miscalculation indeed.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody needs American secessionist values here. Mendoza has always been the best example: a province that has good alternance of governors, never had any “caudillos” (the governor does his 4 years and then walks away), the only province that did not default in 2001, we never have any riots (neither in 2001 nor last year, and the police stayed at their jobs).
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remember what international magazines said about Mendoza during the crisis:
http://www.newsweek.com/province-works-133227
Mendoza is the best combo: hard-working (can't have trees and vines in a desert), a society of cleanliness (people a 6 in the morning cleaning the sidewalks), allows business to operate in reasonable leeway, but also we have now become far more socially tolerant, with thriving gay scene, 200.000 foreigners in Mendoza (half of them Bolivians, and 30.000 ”first world' expats).
YET... WE NEVER HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT SEPARATISM OR SECESSION! Those are weak, unintelligent EUian / NorthAm, LatAm ex-Argentina values, since all other countries in the Americas and Europe have secessionist movements.
Mendoza is one of the few provinces that provides more to the treasury than it receives. And our gasoline prices are higher than BA or Patagonia, despite having a huge oil distillery nearby! Mendoza subsidizes cheap gas for Patagonia and cheap bus fares for the Greater BA.
It's wrong, but we don't think of secession for it!
We don't need bad northern solutions.
84. Regardless of which gov't comes out of this next collapse there will be bloodshed. Whether its 1000s or not is yet to be determined.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 085. I'm not confusing anything with the Chile experiment. I know what happened and I think the medicine they took is exactly what should happen in Argentina.
Would I like to live under a dictatorship, well that depends on the dictator. There have been good dictators throughout history, even recent history ( singapore, taiwan, s korea, turkey) so if I was in the generational mess like Argentina would I trade personal/financial security for some individual liberty...probably.
and the ends do justify the means.
89) It’s not about secessionism or not, its about what is fair and what is not… Do you think Cordoba and Santa Fe are not subsidizing cheap transport, energy and social welfare for the province of BA?? It’s about standing up for what is yours and not having a super state rob from the productive people, the interior provinces… Stop being so stupid with all this North America EU crap you are spouting here
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is true the EU and North América have such little importance to us these days taht we should no longer talk about them.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 092) Pfff
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@89 Toberine
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“we never have any riots”
In the EU???
or are you from Mendoza now?
92. You are the only one on this board obsessed with the EU NA.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only one.
Everyone would be glad if you stopped obsessing about them.
Sticking to the subject at hand would be nice too
BTW did you forget you were logged in as a French/German women or have you just given up the ridiculous pretense?
The caudillos exist in the suburbs of BA and in the northern provinces... All poor all lazy, all subsidized… Cut the centralist state and the money flows to these parts of the country. Let the center provinces develop and humiliate their neighbors.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I apologize to everyone here. Here in the EU (especially Germany), there has been a major security breach abou two weeks ago of personal e-mails, I believe someone took over my account.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But I have now control once more, please my fellow EUians change your passwords on your accounts!
97. Ugh you need to be studied. Euian is not a word. So are you saying your email password and your MP password is the same and someone hacked both under your name so your earlier posts were not made by you, a french/german women, but a psycho-kid from the slums of Mendoza?
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that the story you are going with?
96. You already have a number of provinces that are under direct control of multi generations of the same family. Some would call them Feudal.
Yet somehow that is never talked about.
98) Yes and that is where the africanization will start...In the northern provinces where the drug cartels are penetrating Tucuman, Salta, Formosa, Chaco, Misiones and Jujuy. There is human trafficking begins and where the prostitute rings in the country originate from… No coincidence that the brothels are drug distribution centers.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@99
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It sounds more like a Mexicanization.
BCRA told companies if they want to import or have a note due or bills to pay in U$ that they need to find the u$ outside of the country.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cue Int'l mfgs leaving the country,
Then the old drag queen Mr C, said if you “hoard cash” meaning not immediately spending your savings and profits you are to blame fort the terrible economy.
There is really something wrong with these idiots.
8 Marc1
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 022, 24, 46, 50, 54, 56, 59, 61, 64, 76, 78, 83, 88, 91, 99 CabezaDura2 (Cacique es con ”c”, no con ”s”, burro ;-)
38, 44, 48, 53 paulcedron
4, 48 Gotey
51, 70, 77, 84 MagnusMaster
I could say many things about your above comments…
I do agree with many of the things you say and disagree with quite a few of them too...
But I just feel like saying one thing to you, pibes…
Thanks, for not having (in the 27 critical comments above) incited once to violence and hatred between us…
Thanks for showing that Argentina has indeed changed in the past 32 years
Thanks for being able to express yourself so earnestly and clearly in another language…
Thanks for saving my day…
Yet again….......... Thanks (excuse my French) compañeros…
El Think (Otro sobreviviente)
Chubut, Patagonia, Argentina.
92,
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0we should no longer talk about them,
and no longer talk to south Americans , Africans , Asians ,
hey, why bother talking to anyone anymore,
silence at last,
no more argy bloggers...lolol
89 Nostril
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“we have now become far more socially tolerant, with thriving gay scene, 200.000 foreigners in Mendoza (half of them Bolivians, ”
Wow!! You really should be commended for your 'tolerance' of the Bolivians! You must be very advanced.
Knock it off, Toby.
At least there are some honest, free-thinking, Argentinians on here, who also speak English.
Thankfully, they tell it like it is, and make you look stupid.
100) Call it as you like, but I think it’s a positive and what the good people of Michoacán have done rising up in arms and defending their homes, business and families against the cartels and the organized crime and now they are about to liberate their own state of Michoacan. The scrutiny that the self-defense groups of Michoacán had endured by the corrupt Mexican narco-PRI state of Peña Nieto and the main Mexican media channels of the capital reminded me of the scrutiny the Argentine state and its media set up against the farmer’s revolt in 2008. Although completely different motives. What you see is that when a big state can no longer guarantee your security life -if it is not part of the problem itself- and well being, nor enable a chance of having a dignified life, expropriate your work and income, small communities whith local productive sectors must ally and fight back authoritarianism and corruption of these centralised systems. And perhaps the northern provinces will have to study the Michoacan model
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It has not updated since Saturday,
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wake up MercoPress…
.
FONAF..... Nos acompañan INTA, Senasa , Ministerio de Agricultura, Ganaderia y Pesca de la Nación...All government sponsored
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@107 It is the first day of the two day carnival. Don't expect much work to be done.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@102 Think
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With the January homicide rate up 60% on last year, your message of non violence is highly topical.
What could be causing the increase?
No, my mistake, the carnival is next month. (I have been working on my March schedule all day). Strangely, some other news sites I read have not updated today either.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(108) CabezaDura2
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well nothing “Strange” about Senasa and INTA accompanying the ten of thousands of small farmer families in Argentina....
Who is accompanying the big farmers you so much like...?
How many are the big farmers you so much like...?
What is funny is you were blaming the Canadian ONG founded by the lonely British aid money just yesturday, next day you come up with a “ONG” representing family farmers who has no private sponsors at all but only 3 related state organs....silly hypocrite
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Independent Rural Unions of Argentina
http://www.sra.org.ar/
http://www.sra.org.ar/
http://www.sra.org.ar/
http://www.sra.org.ar/
thanks
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine B
(110) Condorito
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dunno….. Maybe our Yankee hermanitos last HOT summer could give us a clue…? :
“Some 16 murders have been recorded in New York City over the past five days, roughly “TWICE” the average rate. One city councilman described the city as a “brewing cauldron”.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9384991/Record-US-heatwave-blamed-for-spike-in-murders.html
What do you ”Think”, hermanito?
115 Think
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The farmers united in the Liaison Board added that “the government is looking for someone to blame for its own mistakes, as it always does.”
What do you THINK??
Or is this a product of those “Nasty” western, corrupt governments interfering in argentina's destiny???
@115 Think
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dunno how relevant the heat is considering Rosario saw a 40% increase in homicides in 2013.
I think it is more likely to be the result of a toxic combination of poor social policies and programmes, unfair economic arrangements, and bad politics.
If you heed CD and yankeeboy's advice, i.e. form a local vigilante group and stock up on sugar and washing powder, you'll be just fine - even if the mercury stays high.
(117) Condorito
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“...stock up on sugar and washing powder, you'll be just fine - even if the mercury stays high.”
I say...:
Hermanito.....
Thanks for the advice, but...
This is the “Patagonia Profunda”...
Everybody down here has always a basic stash of provisions at home to last for at least three months when the mercury goes down....
118. How odd yesterday you were in Europe.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You travel a lot
in your mind
Teachers and other Unions want to renegotiate salaries every quarter.
They've finally caught on
30% quarter methinks
... and the vigilante group?
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(120) Condorito
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vigilantes? Here...:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postre_vigilante
whispers of Patacones...
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can any troll explain why a Farmer would take 8 when he deserves 13?
Anyone, anyone?
I'm a little sad today. I don't think the model is going to make it. They made a couple of good decisions and then they come out and say that industry wanting to import must source their Dollars outside of Argentina. This alone will be the final nail in the coffin. There must be a power struggle in the inner cabinet right now and CFK doesn't seem to be running the government. It's like a runaway train. When they default again and collapse their economy we are all going to feel it. I remember when Soros made a run on the Ringgit causing the Asian meltdown. This may be just as bad people. Already the Chilean peso and many other healthy currencies are under pressure because of Dollars flowing back to the USA. This could be particularly nasty for the whole region, and we won't need wait too long either.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@123 The Chilean perspective
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, we are taking fall out from all sides:
1) Argentina
2) the Fed taper
3) Chinese slow down
Seems some hedge funds are just shouting “get out of Emerging Markets” and we are being thrown in to the same basket as less well positioned economies. Just today a FT article added Chile and Argentina to the list of the “fragile five”.
The was a qualified rebuttal from the central bank:
http://www.pulso.cl/noticia/economia/economia/2014/01/7-37083-9-rodrigo-vergara-califico-de-poco-riguroso-el-analisis-del--financial-times-sobre.shtml
I think there are a lot of panic reactions going on as we enter a new economic phase that will be marked by easy money pouring back to where it is safer. When it settles, Chile will still be a good option for more focused investors.
Note to Bachelet: keep those spending plans on hold.
(123) The Chilean perspective
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jupppp...... That's the big problem with the “Capitales Golondrinas” hermanito.
They make you believe you are doing Super-Duper and then “Puffff” they are gone, leaving that nasty big hole in your economy....
One positive thing is that there are no “Golondrinas” in Argentina this time. Not that kind at least.
And please hermanito..... don't worry so much about us....
We are going to make it...
I've said for a long time this collapse will bring about the car mfgs leaving the country once and for all.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How stupid do you have to be to tell Ford/GM don't use the u$ millions you have Trapped in the country to buy parts get it somewhere else but still mfg here and oh btw keep the profits here too.
Stupid Marxists have ruined Arg for a generation.
123) CP
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You reckon the model is not going to make it??? In other reviling, unexpected, and shocking news from Argentina today….. Maria Eugenia Rito has admitted received money for sex
http://www.diarioveloz.com/notas/116501-maria-eugenia-rito-yo-alguna-vez-tuve-que-hacer-algo-dinero
124 Condorito
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hope Bachelet hears you, the last thing you want to do is rewrite the tax code, rewrite the constitution, exponentially increase gov spending, etc. In uncertain times it's a bad idea to introduce further uncertainty.
Many of our compatriotas have investment properties and other speculative investments which are wholly credit funded, if interest rates rise due to the Banco Central having to protect the Peso the result could be catastrophic.
@126 yankeeboy
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it is more a continual sinking in to the quagmire rather than a collapse that we are/will see. Rather than a train crash (like before) , there are wheels and linkages falling off the train as it runs out of fuel. It will grind to a stop and possibly topple over.
@ Think
“They make you believe you are doing Super-Duper and then “Puffff” they are gone, leaving that nasty big hole in your economy....”
Please don't worry so much about us hermanito ... we're going to make it.
@TCP
How far can we roll with the lower peso? The non-copper exporters will be loving it.
129. Sometime soon they won't have enough U$ to buy fuel, this is after the imports grind to a halt and everyone is laid off.
Feb 03rd, 2014 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then who knows what will happen.
If they were smart they'd go to the IMF now.
They are not smart.
129 Condorito
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Our currency can go lower, it has lost 13% since early 2008 but it was way over valued then. Because it is a floating currency the main indices that affect it are the current account balance and the budget deficit/ surplus. Both of these need work in Chile.
BTW Argentina's McDonalds ran out of ketchup.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0All is lost
The end is nigh
you cannot live without your daily big mac, can you, fatty?
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0it's a fixed idea.
you should see a nutritionist and a psychologist.
Its a symptom of a very serious problem, if one of THE MAJOR RESTAURANT CHAINS in THE WORLD can't get a required item for their goods it is CATASTROPHIC.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0You think this is the only company having problems?
No its not.
The end is nigh paulcito
the end is nigh
133 PeeCee
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0How can McDonslds expect to offer “McDonslds” products to an Argentine populace wanting it, if they can't get ketchup from abroad?
It was mentioned earlier that you have a shortage of some food crops, especially tomatoes.
It's just a telltale symptom of the economic system breaking down.
Yankeeboy, can you or CD confirm this?
135. Poor stupid Paul didn't get my post at all.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://tn.com.ar/politica/el-anuncio-de-mcdonalds-argentina-por-la-falta-de-ketchup_444218
BTW I never post anything I can't confirm :)
read the comments of that link, fatty
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0nobody here cares too much for ketchup or for greasy hamburgers, yuck
about tomatoes, troll tempest, well, that is an important product.
luckily there are enough to provide the internal market and to export.
http://www.infobae.com/2014/01/08/1535785-productores-aseguran-que-sobra-y-se-tira-tomate-y-rechazan-la-importacion-brasil
http://www.infobae.com/2014/01/08/1535785-productores-aseguran-que-sobra-y-se-tira-tomate-y-rechazan-la-importacion-brasil
Paul, I lived there McDonalds is considered a treat in Argentina. It is extremely expensive and not many people can afford it on a regular basis, its not that they don't like it, it is out of reach for the avg citizen.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Its also a place that is considered a great place to work. In fact you must know English to work the registers!
Maybe you could get a job there
Probably not you're too surly
BTW I hear childhood obesity is a huge problem now along with heart disease so they must be eating something fatty and greasy. Or is it just drippings from the mullets?
“Its also a place that is considered a great place to work. In fact you must know English to work the registers!”
Feb 04th, 2014 - 01:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0don't be so petulant yank.
the fact that you have worked there washing dishes does not mean it is a good place for working or eating. YUCK.
now i understand your refined tastes: miami and mc donalds. lol
next time you will say the best architecture in the world are the casinos of las vegas.
Leaves the trolls looking a little 'red-faced'... they will have to start playing 'ketch-up' before it all goes 'splat'...
Feb 04th, 2014 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0.. too easy, I know, but someone had to say it...
@97 ”I apologize to everyone here. Here in the EU (especially Germany), there has been a major security breach abou two weeks ago of personal e-mails, I believe someone took over my account.“
Feb 04th, 2014 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Presumably, you are saying that the person who took over your account was typing complete nonsense...and yet it took you 2 weeks to realise?
”But I have now control once more, please my fellow EUians change your passwords on your accounts!”
I thought the EUians were destroyed by the Vogons.
I don't know if it is intentional, but you are hilarious! Thank you for the entertainment.
139. Alas you are too bitter and angry to have an intelligent conversation with.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go find another Rg that you can commiserate with.
BCRA reserves down another U$ 250MM today.
tick tock tick tock
@127 .....And the spin master Think will try to make you (or convince himself) believe she is still a virgin
Feb 04th, 2014 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hey Argentines remember this.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 03:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://mla-s1-p.mlstatic.com/bottero-2517-un-millon-de-pesos-ley-1818-billete-argentino-4011-MLA122829906_57-F.jpg
@90 Yankeeboy
Feb 04th, 2014 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Late to the party I know however: I wonder if you've really thought your support for a dictatorship/strong man/woman through.
Where is this individual/movement going to emerge from?
Where is the funding going to come from?
Do you envisage power emerging via the ballot box or by force?
What message are they going to be selling and by what means do they sell that message?
How are he/she/they going to manage/enforce security? The Chilean model included murder - including that of U.S. citizens, torture ( 30 000, including the current Chilean President elect and her father ) and exile - also resulting in murder including the car-bomb assassination of a former Chilean ambassador in Washington D.C. Even the former U.S.S.R. never attempted something so arrogant.
There is also foreign relations to consider - how are Chile, Uruguay and Brazil going to react to Galtieri's ghost emerging on their border? Chile had a lot of help from the U.S. - this time no-one is going to help stage a coup and regardless of how little your country cares about/interacts with Argentina, they can't be seen to publicly support a government that hasn't been democratically elected.
Repressive govts typically need a bad guy - a real or imagined enemy. Who is this regime going to cast in that role. They are going to need international credit funds, so that isn't going to work. I can't imagine, in 2014, casting 'decadence' and laziness in that role either.
The other examples you've provided ( Turkey, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea ) don't work for me either. Attaturk ( I assume you mean ) - great leader in many ways, also presided over the genocide of at least 1 000 000 Armenians. Singapore - very prosperous, clean and secure. Also much nepotism repression of free-speech and no-one cracked a smile during Lee Kuan Yew's leadership. Who wants to live somewhere where no-one has a sense of humour?
Without more detail I just don't see how your 'scenario' would work.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/09/maduro-says-he-is-a-kirchnerite-president-and-venezuela-s-second-peronist-president
Feb 04th, 2014 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0see how those chickens are coming home to roost?
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/09/maduro-says-he-is-a-kirchnerite-president-and-venezuela-s-second-peronist-president
CELAC is the future? ummm... perhaps not...
What a stupid post. I have no idea where or how a Strongman should come about only that if needs to happen to fix this horrible country once and for all.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rgs are not not educated enough and they are too corrupt have a functioning democracy. They need to be taught, they need to have someone teach them, that will never happen with the current numbnuts voting.
I would think the neighbors and world community would rejoice that Argentina would then be on a peaceful, prosperous path.
And a 'strongman' is going to teach Argentine's about democracy? Spare me. Please. You might as well suggest the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse could descend from the heavens to do the job. Your 'strongman' is a figment of your imagination.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I suggested - you really haven't though this through.
148. Thought it through? Yes I have.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are plenty of historical examples of where a Strongman has paved the way to democracy WHEN THE POPULATION WAS READY.
Are you really that poorly educated?
And far more examples when they don't.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@149
Feb 04th, 2014 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You crack me up. You have no idea what this imaginary 'strongman' is supposed to be other than some spiritual descendant of Pinochet. You claim there are plenty of examples of a ”strongman' paving the way to democracy ( the first time you said 'educate' and 'teach' ) when the 'population is ready'. Using capitals no less.
We are discussing ARGENTINA. Just because your bare-bones scenario worked somewhere else doesn't mean it's going to work in Argentina. What makes you think Argentina is going to tolerate some mythical strong dude muscling their way to power? No doubt Argentina may soon be ripe for significant change. But your notion? You think Argentina is ready? Prove it.
You have had ample opportunity to speculate about how this might occur and your response is question my intelligence and my level of education. I might be dumb and poorly educated but at least I can argue my point without losing my rag.
And you STILL haven't thought this through.
All I am saying is what they need not how its going to come about.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My guess is they'll elect someone just as dumb and corrupt as the Society as a whole.
Just like they have done for the last few generations.
@150
Feb 04th, 2014 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly.
@152
Maybe they will. I don't have a crystal ball. But I don't you think you or many others have considered that the brand of democracy that Great Britain exported and that was adopted and adapted by the United States took hundreds of years to develop. Much conflict and bloodshed along the way until they figured out what did and didn't work.
And all this took place in a different world, with a much smaller population. Not in the 20th & 21st century with modern weapons and geopolitical complexity. And the legacy of Spanish colonialism was much more feudal and repressive, reinforced by a much more powerful religious institution. It's been easier for us to create stability and prosperity. Opportunity and fairness.
There is no proof that Argentina can't have the same. Eventually. If that's what they want. It'll just take longer.
153. USA and Argentina were founded at roughly the same time.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you restarting the clock in the 80s?
Silly man your posts reflect a sort of garbled fantasy and not much to do with historical facts or present day reality.
One would think you are Argentinian with that like of logic.
If they have successive presidents who always follow the corruption route why bother with a federal structure?
Feb 04th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Surely the Governors of each province have been elected locally, or am I wrong?
This would be a big undertaking with ALL the federal powers needing to revert to the provinces but the country cannot keep on the way it has gone since the bastard Peron got hold of it.
The other way is to execute ALL the corrupt politicians and the police. After the first 1,000 there would suddenly be NO corruption.
The problem would be to get the death squads rejecting bribes!
Civilians refusing to pay taxes could also be enjoined to make it fair. Set a limit of avoidance and stick to it.
Before you know where you are there would be only 25 M Argentines, the 15 M Peronistas would all be “gone”.
@154 yankeeboy
Feb 04th, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am pretty sure what HC is saying @153 is that North America benefited from being colonised by the English in the same way that LatAm suffered by being a Spanish colony. The English colonies got a flying start. They were industrialized and wealthier than their European cousins in a very short time. The English were never oppressive colonial power, despite what Hollywood says. The very opposite was true in Latin America. After 500 years we still haven't surpassed even Spain! But we are getting there.
@145 Heisenberg
There are elements in most governments that, given the chance, would eliminate their enemies. In the context of such state sponsored nastiness I would say the assassination of Letelier was at least audacious.
Obama will blow you to pieces with a hellfire missile provided you are riding a camel through Yemen and no one will see; the French will put a mine under a Greenpeace vessel in the south Pacific; the Russian will put polonium in your tea; the Brits will arrange a drunken crash in a Parisian tunnel; the Israelis a honey-trap-in to a box - secret flight to Tel Aviv ... but DINA, they'll get their man even if it means rattling the White house windows with a car bomb.
@154
Feb 04th, 2014 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, give or take 30 years or so. But that doesn't alter the fact that the legacies they inherited were very different. Or that Argentina's current economic difficulties can be traced to the early twentieth century.
Nor is it yours truly that is fantasising about an imaginary strongman.
And you still can't resist the impulse to add a gratuitous insult.
And as for logic ( or lack thereof ) being particularly Argentine - how many of your fellow citizens have claimed they were abducted by aliens and subjected to gruesome proctological experiments? If you truly believe my logic is faulty you might just as well claim I'm a yankee.
p.s. If you want to continue to trade insults you'll have to wait.I'm off to bed ( some of us have to work ). Good night.
So what he is trying to say is “ the man is keeping them down” or past performance is not an indicator of future performance?
Feb 04th, 2014 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hahaha
CFk Ministers saying we will not go without a fight!!
Translation... Rut ro...we are packing our bags now
the end is nigh
good riddance to bad rubbish
@156 Condorito
Feb 04th, 2014 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you - a much more succinct and articulate condensation of my argument than my clumsy attempt.
And... have I mentioned my respect and admiration for Chilean wit? I've never thought of state-sponsored assassination in those terms before. You made me laugh in spite of myself.
@158
One last time. I don't use hippie or Black Panther speak FYI. I am saying, now, that past performance is not NECESSARILY an indicator of future performance. The current agita is not NECESSARILY enough to give up on democracy. And , for now, that's all I got. Greetings and salutations etc...
@HC
Feb 04th, 2014 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spanish colonial scheme was indeed feudal; due to the fact Spain did not develop early capitalism like it did in England, the Netherlands, West Germany and Northern Italy at the renaissance age. The conquest of the Americas by Spain was done exclusively by the Army and the Catholic Church The English/British settlement and colonization was done mostly by settlements who were founded by privateers and early capitalists.
@159 HC
Feb 04th, 2014 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A humorous Chilean take on a famous recent assassination:
http://www.theclinic.cl/2011/05/05/hoy-en-the-clinic-95/
157 Heisencontext
Feb 04th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With respect, Yankeeboy “does not have a crystal ball” either.
He can no more “prove” his “strongman” hypothesis than you can prove your “wait and they will evolve towards democracy” scenario.
You are right when you point out that the Argentines do not have a legacy or history of democracy or political representation that the Brits/USA inherited.
However, Yankeeboy points out a strong precedent. Chilé was relatively recent and their origins and history have many parallels and shared values with Argentina.
Were the people and self-interested government of Chilé welcoming a military Dictatorship with open arms? Not likely, and yet it turned them around.
Results came at a high cost, if you want to weigh suspensions of rights and personal freedom, but the Dictator is gone now.
Many of the economic and social ills have been defeated too, though.
What cost for Argentina to follow the same path, willingly or unwillingly? Probably high, it won't come easy.
What I hear Yankeeboy saying is that waiting for Argentina to figure it out and change, seems to be yielding no results since there is not enough incentive for politicians and government officials to do anything but take “the easy money” - they need a catalyst to change.
I don't know why, unlike YB, you feel the Argentine people are so much different from the Chileans.
The problems appear similar and both populations would be unwilling “reformers.”
There is of course, no predicting the future and no guarantees.
We know that every system is open to abuse and mismanagement.
Chile has a completely different upcoming since Independence from that of Argentina... Argentina unlike the rest of Latam received a influx of immigrants from southern Europe who at the time were very influenced by anarchists, communists, socialists and unionists. They left before seeing Italy fall to the hands of fascism or the onslaught of WWII, hence they never learned the lessons about the importance of democracy, further more these new ideas already outdated by the mid 40s were the breeding ground for Peronism.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The truth is that Peronist power base was so strong that not even the Argentine military could undo it, and this is what YB refuses to understand. In Chile there was a massive power gap between the military and the political class. As nationalism has always stronger than communism, peronism survived in proscription for over 20 years… The Chileans had no sort of equivalent to peronism
Just to add the the interesting discussion. Simon Bolivar originally had the idea of South America being a democratic 'United States of South America”. But he soon realised it was impossible. Because of the Spanish colonial founding, they just did not suit democracy.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(161) Condorito
Feb 04th, 2014 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A humorous Argentinean take on everything…:
http://www.theclinic.cl/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/mafalda19.png
@ 165 Think
Feb 04th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wena
Chile has always been far more elitist and conservative than Argentina. I don't think anyone in Argentina would want to live without free university, free health care or strong trade unions. Plus, the Peronists would never let the government fire a single public employee.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@162 “What I hear Yankeeboy saying is that waiting for Argentina to figure it out and change, seems to be yielding no results since there is not enough incentive for politicians and government officials to do anything but take “the easy money” - they need a catalyst to change.”
Does a catalyst need to be a military dictatorship though?
@85, ElaineB, your question “A dictatorship is not the answer. Would you live under a dictatorship?” is interesting. A similar situation as Allende in Chile, was occurring in Brazil in the early 60's....Janio Quadros, elected 1960, resigned misteriously in 1962, allowing his vice-president, Joao Goulart to take over...Jango, as he was known, started to lead Brazil down the path of communism, and amongst other things, invited the Russians to establish military bases in Brazil.....aside from the nasty political atmosphere reigning in the country, no one knew what the hell was going to happen...the probability of confiscation of private property , of bank accounts etc, was looming on the horizon...we had our bags packed, ready to leave the country at the blink of an eyelid...the future looked pretty bleak....as a result, there were loads of street protests against Jango in several cities, the largest, in which I participated in Sao Paulo (March 1963), counted over 1 million people....We woke up on the morning of 31st March 1964, with newspaper headlines that the military had taken over, Jango had been deported....the majority of the population was greatly relieved . Of course there were those who were pissed-off , a few of which rise up in arms , and a lot of those, had already spent time in Cuba, being trained in urban guerrilla warefare.. their mission ? return to Brazil ( in 1961) and overthrow the democratically elected Government of Janio Quadros. Unfortunately for them, they ended up finding themselves up against the military, that did what it had to, to guarantee law and order...These “guerrilheiros” took on the military and got what they deserved...the great majority of people went around their daily business, freely, and what's more, did not have to put up with a corrupt Congress....“utopia”...so, despite the death of a few leftist 'guerrilheiros”, who had it coming to them, the dictatorship saved Brazil from communism...
Feb 04th, 2014 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0167. I don't think anyone in Argentina would want to live without free university, free health care or strong trade unions. Plus, the Peronists would never let the government fire a single public employee.
Feb 04th, 2014 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is exactly the problem.
Rgs live in fantasyland thinking everything is free and they can't even buy fuel!
Argentina is barely a 3rd world country now.
When the F are you going to wake up?
@167 Magnus
Feb 04th, 2014 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Chile has always been far more elitist and conservative than Argentina”
I wish we were elitist enough not to have communists in congress.
A point of interest: we do have public health care, in fact in a 2013 ranking of hospitals in Latin America, we have 2 public hospitals in the top 45
http://rankings.americaeconomia.com/mejores-clinicas-hospitales-2013/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ranking-hospitales-y-clinicas.jpg
167 Magnus,
Feb 04th, 2014 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Does a catalyst need to be a military dictatorship though?”
Whatcha got, instead?
I suppose not.
I would think nobody wants a Dictatorship.
IIRC, Yankeeboy said they “need” a Dictstorship, and we can assume that it would be against their will.
You had better ask HIM, though.
@161 Condorito
Feb 05th, 2014 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lol. I have a cartoon I clipped from The Australian newspaper the day after O B-L's demise, which I stuck on my fridge.
It depicts Bin-Laden repeatedly trying to enter 'Paradise Security' which is guarded by a bored looking angel. He keeps setting off the alarm. The angel keeps repeating: “Sorry sir, you'll have to go through again.”
Bin-Laden, finally losing patience, demands: “How long will this take? I have virgins waiting! The Angel replies: ”Just keep going through the machine, Osama.”
@162 Troy Tempest
I don't have anything else to add. I think you'll find all your answers in either my posts, or the other numerous posts on this subject, on this thread.
Paulcedron : “ buenos aires is considered the best place to visit in central and south america”.
Feb 05th, 2014 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ puerto stanley? not even qualifies. lol. LOL”
Precisely , so why do you and the rest of the malvinistas get so obsessed by the place ?
You can tell that Argentina is going down the toilet when they cannot even import the Tomato Ketchup for McDonalds!
Feb 06th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552847/Argentina-arms-KETCHUP-shortage-McDonalds-branches-countrys-economic-crisis-sauce-problem.html
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