MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Making Spanish workers to queue to access Gibraltar is “curious”
Britain’s ambassador to Spain has expressed concern about continued queues at the border between Gibraltar and Spain. Speaking to reporters during a visit to the Canary Islands, Simon Manley said the queues were “curious” given Spain’s high unemployment and the fact that many Spanish workers were caught up in the delays. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThe more Spain tries to sideline Gibraltar, the more mainstream Gibraltar becomes.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar is gaining more and more powers and more and more exposure as a normal nation-state. You can already see the slow path that Gibraltar is taking to eventual independence.
It is the reason that Spain has suddenly resorted to its current behaviour. It sees Gibraltar slowly slipping away from it more and more with the likelihood of it becoming Spanish gradually reducing to never.
Spain signed an agreement with the UK in 2006 stating that they would not seek to exclude Gibraltar Airport from future EU measures.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They have now reneged on that.
The same agreement saw them commit to building their own part of the new airport; and to easing the border crossing.
They reneged on those as well.
On the other hand, Gibraltar built its new airport and the UK still pays pensions to the Spanish workers; the ones who never contributed to the pension fund, and lost their jobs because of Franco. They get better pensions now than their Gibraltarian counterparts. But even though Spain has reneged on every single aspect of Cordoba, Britain and Gibraltar still uphold their side.
Says it all, really.
Spain's signature. Not worth the paper it is written on.
Of course if Spain keeps up the bad behaviour, it would be possible to stop paying the pensions to Spanish workers. This has already been suggested.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So not only would the PP be annoying those Spanish voters that cross the border each day to work, but they would also be impoverishing those voting Spanish pensioners who would stop receiving their pension.
I can imagine that most of those voters would choose to vote against the PP at the next election for causing this problem.
Madrid has even bigger problems ahead. The more that they cause trouble for Gibraltar and Britain, the more help that is given to the Catalonians ahead of their Referendum in November.
Unlike the Scottish, who I predict will choose to remain in the United Kingdom, the Catalonians will vote for independence.
Nothing Madrid can do will stop this. Not only is the Referendum constitutional (despite Madrid's claims to the opposite), but it will show to the world that Madrid is a fascist state bent on subjugating the Catalonians against their will.
If everything happens as I expect and Madrid sends in the troops, then not only will the Catalans resist, as the Basques have, but there will be acts of sabotage to teach the Spanish Government a lesson, by stopping the flow of taxes, by civil disobedience, by road signs being replaced by Catalan ones, or vandalised. By Spanish Government vehicles being rendered inoperable, by property belonging to Madrid being seized and sold to repay any Catalans injured by Madrid's actions.
There are thousands of ways that the Catalans can frustrate and sabotage Madrid's control over Catalonia. Eventually, the other provinces will join in and stake their claim to independence. Who knows, maybe Andalusia will even ask to join Gibraltar and become an even larger state?
#3: Of cours the UK can stop paying the pensions, but that would be stooping to their level. The PP may enjoy punishing its own citizens, but there's no need for the UK to follow suit.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with you on Catalunya except that the vote is, technically, illegal under the Spanish constitution. It was also illegal for Scotland to vote to secede from the UK. However, the UK respects people's rights and wishes (as a democracy would) and changed the law. Castile is simply an imperialist bully and uses the constitution to beat down its people.
I see also that Spain is 'reorganising' troop bases and a lot more are going to be 'stationed' in Catalunya, Aragon and the Basque country. It's going to get messy.
Andalusia & Gibraltar, now that would get up Madrid's nose!
Feb 07th, 2014 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0ah, but but ?
Feb 07th, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0if the shoe was on the other foot, and Gibraltar kept the Spanish waiting at the border,
all hell would break out, Spain would cry foul,
yet it is so childish to see SPAIN make its own people queue, and the Unmighty EU turns a blind eye,
come back nelson...lol
@4
Feb 07th, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree, it would be wrong to stop the pensions, but then Madrid is deliberately hurting Gibraltarians as well as their own citizens.
If tensions rise any more than they have already, then it may be necessary to take whatever action is required to secure and protect the Rock. The recent 'patrol' of HMS Diamond in BGTW was a message to Spain that these are our waters.
It has been suggested (by Lord West) that a more robust defence performed by Royal Marine Fast Attack Boats should be carried out to dissuade the territorial incursions. Whitehall has this in mind along with other options.
As for Catalunya, it would be a huge mistake for Madrid to send in the troops. The Catalonian politicians would disagree with you. They are very clear that they do have the constitutional right to this vote and any attempt to prevent it would be a sign to Brussels that they need to intervene or sit and watch another Yugoslavia break-up and civil war start on their doorstep.
The Basques would certainly use any distraction to seek their own independence and a few of the other regions may do the same.
It would be very interesting to see how many politicians in Andalusia seek a 'Federation' with Gibraltar, to break away and distance themselves from Madrid's corruption and madness.
Royal Navy's Type 45 Guided Missile Destroyer HMS Diamond (D34) performs a Sovereignty Patrol/Anchorage
Feb 07th, 2014 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.flickr.com/photos/mosh70/12351370444/in/photostream/
HMS Diamond patrols British waters in Gibraltar,
And not a Spanish rat to be seen..lol
.
Actually, the GC have been into BGTW since Diamond arrived. In fact, Diamond was “escorted in” by a Guardia vessel, much to the captain's amusement.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They know that the RN's rules of engagement mean they can sail around with impunity, so they do it.
I see yesterday Margallo and his sidekick, that crook Landaluce, were ranting away in the Spanish Parliament; the usual mix of threats and lies. However, inter alia, Landaluce promised a “nice surprise” on bunkering in the Bay.
To me, this indicates that Spain is likely to begin “fining companies who use Gibraltar for bunkering”. They believe they can do this because of the underhand way they persuaded the EU to demarcate BGTW as a Spanish conservation zone.
While this would raise an immediate legal challenge (Spain cannot take action as it has no jurisdiction) it could be damaging as it will cause uncertainty: say Spain fines a company €2m (unenforceable) but then states that, if that company sails into Spanish waters, that it will seize the vessel pending payment.
Knowing the slowness of the legal process, this could be a problem even though it is effectively piracy: Spain “enforcing” sanctions in an area over which it has no jurisdiction, and one which it will not go to court to test its claim to.
Yep. 21st century nation alright.
@9
Feb 07th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even more reason to hasten the end of the current Spanish state by aiding the provinces to break away.
As for Spain 'arresting' any merchant vessel for non-payment of fines, there are an awful lot of Spanish vessels which could be 'detained' for safety inspections around the British Isles. Not to mention the GC boats which might suddenly find that they have an armed escort as they are persuaded to spend some time in a Gibraltar prison cell for illegal incursions.
Spain is depending on the EU to get them out of their financial mess. It would be awfully difficult for them to do so if any EU support was vetoed.
Madrid is playing with fire and Landaluce may find that it blows up in his face.
Odds of cutting pensions are rare in the extreme.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The huge international implications for the UK tower over the concept.
( accepting all bets )
@11 If you bend over, you'll find your marbles on the floor. Wiggle your butt. Marcos will probably shag you. He's not picky. And you'll LIKE that, won't you?
Feb 07th, 2014 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps Gibraltar should invite all region's of Spain to attend talks on a future federation,
Feb 07th, 2014 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0just in case Spain collapses,
if anything it might shut Spain up,
or have her running into the arms of CFK ..lolol
just a thought..
You know, if Fabian announced a meeting of all those interested parties disadvantaged by Madrid's stupid behaviour, then a lot of interested politicians would turn up.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar needs the Spanish workers and if there is to be trouble this November or even Civil War, then it would be well that the local politicians were all singing from the same Hymn sheet, so that Andalusia can stay in business, even if the rest of Spain falls apart.
true..
Feb 07th, 2014 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#11 - You state: “Odds of cutting pensions are rare in the extreme.
Feb 08th, 2014 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0The huge international implications for the UK tower over the concept.”
What “implications”? You don't seem to have much in the way of comprehension. Basically, the UK and Spain signed an agreement in 2006. Under which:
- Spain undertook to stop trying to have Gibraltar airport excluded from EU regulations
- Spain undertook to build part of an airport in La Linea
- Spain undertook to ease border problems
- Spain undertook to remove its ludicrous refusal to accept Gibraltar's international telephone dialling code
- The UK undertook to pay pensions to Spanish citizens who worked in Gib but lost their jobs when Franco closed the border
- Gibraltar undertook to build a new airport terminal next to the border
Outcome on the above:
- Spain reneged on Gib airport and EU regulations
- Spain never build its part of the airport
- Spain uhas made the border worse than ever
- Spain did relax phone line controls but only because it can't renege on it
- The UK continues to pay pensions to Spanish workers - better ones than the Gibraltarians get - despite the fact that Spain has reneged on every part of the deal that it can renege on
- Gibraltar built a new airport terminal next to the border at a cost of £60m to be borne by us taxpayers
Face it: Spain is a waste of space. It is the most corrupt country in Europe. It has a government who will fine you €30k for photographing a policeman who is beating you up. It is passing new laws that give rapists more rights than women. It has a government that forces the sacking of judges and policemen who dare to investigate its hideously corrupt rulers.
It even has Argentina - of all nations - attempting to prosecute the murderers that Spain protects because 'any crimes under Franco are forgiven'
Fascist state. And you want us to join you? You are dreaming.
The UK isn't petty. It isn't going to cut pensions because that only hurts people not the Spanish government.
Feb 08th, 2014 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Spain is powerless to change the world and get what it wants. The UK doesn't need to do much at all. Spain can't keep this up for decades or centuries and Gibraltar only has to continue to exist to drive Spain to continual distraction.
There's truth in saying that Gibraltar's continued existence drives Spanish politicians to distraction. That's why they keep coming up with new ways to cause trouble and put pressure on Gibraltar.
Feb 08th, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Despite the fact that Spain is on the verge of falling apart as a nation, there is good reason to make a point that bad behaviour will not be tolerated.
To this end, one (or several) of the GC boats should be arrested in Gibraltar waters - after being given a warning and ample time to leave - and then placed in prison, awaiting a full and grovelling apology from Madrid, confiscation of the boats and Spain's acceptance that if they transgress any more, their personnel will serve a lengthy sentence without the possibility of early release, at a prison in the UK.
The Gibraltarians should arrange picnics near the border with union flags every Sunday,
Feb 08th, 2014 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0that may drive the Spanish mad lol
I'd like to fly to Gib from UK -go to the border-get stopped by the
Feb 09th, 2014 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spanish and then say-'No amigos-I lost-I no want to go into Spain,' get out a small Union Jack flag and give it to the GC as a pressie and walk back to resume holiday in Gib......
Visited Spain last summer.Lovely place.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can´t say the same for Gibraltar though...
Well considering you visited Spain and Gibraltar is not part of Spain it isn't surprising you don't have an opinion.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like ross hasn't too many brains, either.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 023 Is this the way you defend an arguement??!! by insulting.Not very mature i must say.
Feb 10th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 022 Spain was a lovely place..nice people,culture,food..magnificent but Gibraltar was a bedraggled, shabby and rundown town. Interestingly I met more English tourists on the Spanish side than in Gibraltar where the common language was a mixture of Spanish and English. LLanito I think is what they call it.Uncanny kind of place.
@24 ross,
Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not defending an argument, just making a statement.
Gibraltar is a facinating, unique place.
Have you really been there?
You wouldn't come out with such rot if you had.
24 Ross
Feb 11th, 2014 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I also enjoyed my time in Spain. Beautiful country. I can't wait to return one day. And yes there lots of British tourists and retirees in Spain. The joys of the EU and Spain being a poorer country than Britain. It's like Mexico for Americans and SE Asia for Aussies.
I don't know what you saw but Gibraltar was much tidier, cleaner and wealthier looking than La Linea to me. But each to their own.
As to the language, English is not a prerequisite to being British. The fact that Gibraltar has developed its own language shows that it is now a distinct nation from both Spain and Britain. If anything this observation of yours shows how far Gibraltar has separated itself from Spain.
I mean if a traveller like you can see something so obvious then it is hardly surprising that Spain's actions have the opposite effect.
@24 Ross
Feb 11th, 2014 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've been to Spain and Gibraltar many times. Whilst there are areas of Spain that are pretty to look at, in general I've found the Spanish are not as friendly as the Gibraltarians. Somewhat arrogant.
There are areas of Gibraltar that could do with renovation, but it is a place that is changing rapidly. I'm sure that if you pointed out the areas that were shabby & run down, then the Convent could see to it that they were given some attention. There is a unique Mediterranean quality to the old town and beautification of this area would help to attract even more tourists.
There are some quarters of the town that are ultra modern, first rate communities for the people working in the financial and gaming industries. There are also plans afoot to build developments that would enhance the Rock even more.
Personally, I would love to hear of someone interested in taking on the challenge of renovating the tunnels within the Rock. There's enough room inside it to house 16,000 troops, but if they were turned into modern dwellings, then maybe there would be enough space for another 1,000 residences. But that would take serious money.
I have always found the Gibraltarians to be a very warm and welcoming people. Far more so than across the border. Maybe you need to meet the right people next time.
lets see number 16 - sceptic.
Feb 11th, 2014 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You list a whole lot about the Cordoba agreement.
Its interesting, no really.
Unfortunately it has little to do with the implications to the UK of a UK owned territory cutting the pensions of another EU country.
Would UK citizens be willing to suffer for such stupidity, Id say no.
And thats exactly what any govt rep from Gib suggesting such a move would hear from London...no.
In the meantime, as the old internet saying goes.... ' DO IT F*G**T'.
:)
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