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“It is not clear where the Argentine government is heading or who is in charge”

Tuesday, February 11th 2014 - 23:44 UTC
Full article 65 comments

It is not clear where the government commanded by Argentine president Cristina Fernández is heading to, Economy Minister of neighboring Uruguay Mario Bergara affirmed saying the economic ups and downs in Argentina have deeply impacted on Uruguayan exports, tourism and real estate activities. Read full article

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  • Anglotino

    ”bad news in Argentina always end as bad news for Uruguay”

    No truer words have ever come out of Uruguay.

    But what is amazing is that Mercosur has facilitated a drop in trade between these two countries. From 25% of export down to 5%. So what benefits does Uruguay get from being in Mercosur?

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “Bergara argued that the current situation is no parallel with what happened in 2002, when Argentine contagion, plummeted Uruguay into a dramatic situation.”

    it seems this guy is not the brightest of the bunch.
    if argentina´s economy collapses, the whole region will suffer the consequences in a dramatic way.
    it would be as if brazil or mexico´s economy collapse.
    maybe he needs to study the efecto tequila and efecto caipirinha again.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    It could be the case of taking with it Uruguay and sectors of Brazil, but I doubt it will hit the region. Argentina is already too closed imposing restriction on imports, there are no foreign investments left to affect, no big regional companies operating in Argentina ….so

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    greece represented less for the eu than what argentina represents for the mercosur/ south america region, and yet their collapse affected the whole europe.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    But unlike the relationship between the EU/Germany towards Greece, there is no need for Mercosur/Brazil to bail out Argentina. Argentina has its own currency to devaluate and nothing left to default too

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    despite the disaster the govt has been doing, argentina still is a main player in the region.
    it still is the 3rd economy, if you include mexico or the 2nd of south america.
    most of the production of automotive industry, agricultural machinery, etc is imported by the countries of the mercosur duty-free.
    and many of the headquarters of multinational companies, laboratories, etc that provide to the region are located here.

    no doubts a collapse here will affect the whole south america dramatically

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    “if argentina´s economy collapses, the whole region will suffer the consequences in a dramatic way. it would be as if brazil or mexico´s economy collapse.”

    WHAT!

    How?

    Argentina isn't in the same league as Mexico or Brazil. Argentina is a FRONTIER economy. Which means it is below developing. Risk of major problems or collapse is already factored in.

    How did Argentina's recent currency devaluation affect the region?

    Not only did Argentina drop below Colombia in economic size, but Argentina's economy is inward looking and not as economically integrated into the region. Even the closest country, Uruguay, hardly exports there now.

    If Argentina collapses, it will have repercussions. But they won't be major. Not would they be same as if Brazil or Mexico had a crisis.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Colombia has surpassed Argentina as the second largest economy with the last official devaluation.

    The HQ of the companies that you mention are desperate to get out with their US dollars and re locate elsewhere. The agricultural machinery industry has being raped ever since the war against the agro sector started. 8 years ago they were thinking in exporting even to Kazajhstan, now they will be cutting jobs

    A lot of the countries have very good reserve ratios to survive the shock waves that are coming. The Argentine crisis is politically motivated by the government in the last 10 years but the economical backlash is going to hit really hard now.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    Anglotino no longer lives in a sophisticated, first world country?

    Who said this? BOTH HIS OWN PRIME MINISTER AND THE OPPOSITION LEADER!

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-warns-party-room-of-more-economic-shocks-to-come-in-wake-of-toyota-pullout-20140211-32g2u.html

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cornelius

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    It's better to be a small insignificant economy but FREE from depending on others, that big and at the mercy of people like the Europeans, the British, the AMericans, Chinese, etc.

    I support it FULLY as long as goverments don't spend more than they take in. That is the problem.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod102

    So exports to Argentina from Uruguay have reduced from 25% to 5% of the total. They've already absorbed the pain of the first 20% so if they lose the final 5% it's not going to so great a loss.

    Also, logically they'll be wanting to replace that trade with someone else, ideally someone reliable who can pay them quickly in a robust currency. The first stage in developing such trade is to meet, talk, be friendly etc...and a group of Uruguayans are visiting the Falklands. Coincidence?

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 04:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @10 Nostrils

    Thanks for the article.

    Even Argentineans can hear what my country's leader has to say.
    Can't say the same for your own leader.

    “Anglotino no longer lives in a sophisticated, first world country?
    Who said this?”

    Only you actually. No one else.

    Nice try but you should know by now; that is all it will ever be.... a try.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 05:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Anglolatino
    Uruguay has increased it trade some 300% since 2002. Trade with Argentina has decreased, but the big drop in percentage has more to do with the huge increase of the total, most of it to China.

    And MP really needs to stop using google translate, Bergara was talking about the Argentine economy, not government...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 06:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Leiard

    @15
    He was actually talking about both, because surely the economy is one of the main remits of the government.

    @12 newt
    Stop being such a prat you can change your name as much as you want but it makes you more insignificant every time you do so.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    No Leiard, read the article in Spanish... We'll, you can't...

    What can I say, live with your delusion...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Stevie

    “Uruguay has increased it trade some 300% since 2002. Trade with Argentina has decreased, but the big drop in percentage has more to do with the huge increase of the total, most of it to China.”

    That doesn't change the fact that Uruguay is less trade exposed to Argentina.

    Lucky for Uruguay. The next crash should have a much lower effect on Uruguay.

    “Bergara was talking about the Argentine economy, not government...”

    What is the difference? Are you about to claim that the Argentine government doesn't control its own economy?

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Anglolatino
    Uruguay isn't less trade exposed to Argentina. Argentina is more protectionist and less trade is a natural reaction.
    In actual numbers the drop is far less than from 25% to 5%, as you tried to imply.

    As for the Bergara comment, it's a big difference having an economy with no aim opposed to having a government with no aim.

    I know, I know, your “wit” tells you Argentina has both and then you chuckle a bit for yourself... Done? Good.

    With that out of your system, there is a big difference.

    By the way, what did all your FTA's do to Aussie car industry again?
    That's 45k jobs directly affected by Toyota and some 150k more for loosing the industry altogether...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Leiard

    @17 Stevie

    “It is not clear where the government commanded by Cristina Fernández de Kirchner is heading to, ...”

    http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/151874/not-clear-who-is-in-charge-of-argentinas-economy-uruguayan-minister-says

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    http://www.lr21.com.uy/economia/1158478-bergara-poca-previsibilidad-y-estabilidad-de-argentina-son-problemas-para-uruguay

    “It's not the people, but the economic policies.”

    BA Herald... Bergara made his statement in Spanish, imagine that...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @10 Tobias

    Yep, we're panicking alright. Any minute now Press TV will be reporting that Australians are banging pots right now, even rioting I hear, and screaming tirades at the 'oligarches' who are “stealing our Toyota's! ”.

    @19 Stevie

    Our cars cost 4 times as much to manufacture here than a similar vehicle would cost in Asia - China, Malaysia, Japan etc... The Australian car manufacturing industry has been subsidised to, varying degrees, by various state and federal govts since the late seventies. They are all foreign manufactures who have taken a great deal of money from the tax-payer for a long time.

    And our unions need to understand that if this is an industry their workers still want to have jobs in they will need to be more flexible. A union's willingness to compromise can have an enormous impact on productivity and this an extremely competetive industry.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Strangely, according to Toyota themselves, the closure was due to the high Australian dollar and fiercely competitive market as the main reasons. The unions weren't even mentioned...

    But of course you know better than Toyota as to why they would close...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Wow Stevie.

    So now the figure is 195,000?

    The last figure you gave was 100,000.

    At this rate I'll lose my job too.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    What job?

    I don't know the exact numbers. Heck, not even you lot do...

    But I'm sure the closure of Aussie car industry will not affect employment positively... Maybe it will have a positive impact on accident rates though...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Wage Spiral/Inflation Spiral
    It looks like the unions don't want the 25% raise offered by CFK, gee I wonder why? Maybe because they know inflation will be 40%+ this year?
    No wonder they are asking for quarterly renegotiated wages.

    Can you imagine!
    Wages up, inflation up, wages up, inflation up, wages up, inflation up.
    It all stop when it collapses

    I hear BCRA imposed strict caps on U$ leaving the country. I wonder how that will work when the winter starts or industry needs inputs?
    Psst it won't
    Short term gain that will cause long term problems.

    Watch CFK start lashing out
    Cornered animals are dangerous.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    But Stevie is will affect employment positively.

    They will find work elsewhere. What else would they do?

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Of course it will, Anglolatino.
    Fact is, any industry leaving the country os actually good for society. Not to mention employment rate.

    The world is in awe, Abbott...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malicious bloke

    To paraphrase an unnamed german officer from WW1, Uruguay is shackled to a corpse.

    You guys need to get yourselves extricated from The Dark Country as soon as possible

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @23 Stevie

    Yes, all the examples mentioned in both of our posts have all contributed to the dire state of our car industry. And union flexibility is a significant part of our competetiveness in a “fiercely competetive market”.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Yes yes Stevie.

    Let's se whose economic course pans out better over the next couple of years: Australia's or Argentina's.

    As one of the world's richest countries we seem to be doing alright even with declining manufacturing. However do we do it I wonder?

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    http://www.clarin.com/ciudades/San-Telmo-crecer-ocupacion-plaza_0_1083491693.html

    San Telmo was never very nice like Constitution there are streets you just don't go down or past.
    The gov't has been trying to make San Telmo into a tourist destination but it looks like they are not succeeding very well.
    Tourists don't want to see the squares being overtaken with slums.

    If something isn't done soon BA is going to look like Caracas.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Borrowing money does not make you rich. It makes you a money borrower and somebody else richer...

    Regardless what you say...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    33. Oh there's a great piece of advice!
    So if you can borrow at 3% and that money will make you 10% its not making you richer?
    I guess that is why you turn a wrench in the bitter north sea. They're not paying for your brains.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    angloliar
    first stop lying, you architecture student. lol
    second, try to talk about the things you understand. argentina's or mercosur situation is not one of them.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    The lady, is not for turning...lol

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Yankee....it's hopeless to explain the concept of leveraged capital to someone that thinks having debt is the same as not paying your bills or defaulting is the same as reducing your debt burden.

    Stevie is the epitome of the anti-anglo crusader. He flies around in his black cape.....aka Super Bolivarian

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    And now for another installment of “THE WORLD ACCORDING TO YANKEEBOY”

    IF...

    Brown water inside a city in England

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0211/Britain-s-wettest-January-on-record-yields-severe-flooding-and-blame-video

    THUS...

    There is no sewage in Britain!

    Just another NEUTROLL OBSERVATION

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    38. Try reading your post again. Are you sure that is what you wanted to say?

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    38
    the worst thing is that yankee@t is happy every time he reads a bad new about argentina.
    now he is exultant with the new settlement in a square of san telmo.
    the poor thing does not understand that is a common problem in every big city.
    like london.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337695/Shanty-town-suburban-London-street-Romanians-scrape-living-amid-squalor-dump.html

    of course they dont have that kind of problem in puerto stanley.
    simply because it is not a city, it is a small village.
    we dont have precarious settlements in our villages either.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    @40

    And the hits just keep on coming:

    http://news.msn.com/us/1-dead-several-injured-in-new-york-city-bus-crash

    Every time Yankeeboy opens his big foul mouth to make fun of anything in Argentina, be it floods, bus crashes, a train crash, a shooting, or even a famous person having their purse stolen at a restaurant... THE EXACT SAME THINGS HAPPENS IN HIS OR ANOTHER “FIRST WORLD” COUNTRY WITHIN 72 HOURS!

    But he will never learn. He will continue making fun, and within three days will be embarrassed in front of the world by the same event happening in his filthy lair.

    Buses in the USA are driven by drug addicts, that is well known.

    Just another NEUTROLL OBSERVATION

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    USA is not getting any 10% profit.
    Selected citizens are.
    USA will though have to pay for it.
    Which they haven't.
    Otherwise it would be 0, not 17 T.

    Easy maths...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, Show me the links where I made fun of the bus accident in Argentina. I merely said most long range bus drivers are drunk. Proven by tests done outside of Retiro.
    Stevie, You clearly don't understand math. Go turn your wrench and make sure you don't bang your hand in the cold. It is really painful.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    43
    that accident was provoked by a brazilian truck driver, driving a brazilian truck.
    for your happiness, yes, there were 18 argentinian deads plus the brazilian truck driver.
    are you happy now, you imbecile x 100?

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    44. I never claimed dead Rgs make me happy. That's disgusting.

    I only pointed out that speeding long range buses with drunk Rg drivers will most likely have problems and I would never ever get on one.

    I was also making fun of someone taking a bus 13 hrs to get someone. Some would think it is uncivilized and backward.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    41 A_neuTroll_Observer

    “Buses in the USA are driven by drug addicts” Maybe...... maybe not....

    Trains in argentina are driven by people who are stone cold sober and they still crash. So I really don't know what your point is.

    “But he will never learn. He will continue making fun, and within three days will be embarrassed in front of the world by the same event happening in his filthy lair.”

    You see tobi, you are projecting again...... That is no good is it boy? you must try to do better than that.

    Whatever happens in the US happens for a reason. A bus crashes, the driver was drunk.

    Some people get shot, Some madman with a gun has gone on a shooting spree. So what?

    These are random actions that are not connected. The same can not be said for argentina can it?

    A train crashes, that's because the government has been stealing all the money that they were supposed to spend on the railway network.

    There are riots in BA. Oh, that's because the government have stolen the money they were ment to use to pay the police so the police have gone on strike.

    One of the navy's ship have sunk at it's moorings. Oh, that will be because the government has stolen all the money that it was supposed to use on defense. So the navy can't repair it's ships.

    Do you see a pattern forming here?

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Guys, guys, we need to make allowance for “Free Energy” Stevie’s unique insight into economics.

    Black is black and red is also black when it comes to accounting in Stevie’s favourite brotherly love country “Argentina” aka The Dark Country. Uruguay didn’t lose export share, we just lost export share to them. Can you see the difference there? NO? You will have to take that up with Stevie, only he can explain it. :o)

    And why did “Bergara made his statement in Spanish”, he cannot speak English. Seemingly nobody in this government of ours can!

    There is no real problem for the large companies who are being held to ransom in The Dark Country. They have more money than any LatAm country, they just don’t want to waste it getting out if a better government takes over after the next elections. Let’s face it, could there be a WORSE government?

    But, and there’s always a but, if they do get out I cannot see them coming back for decades. In fact, they only have themselves to blame. As soon as the K’s got into power they should have scarpered to Brazil and left the unions to stew in their own shit.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    @46

    Argentina is a very poor country, one of the poorest in the Americas. We don't have enough resources, and industry is shrinking. There is simply no money, there is no money to steal.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    48
    now all these halfwits, including chris the uruguayan bootlicker - toilet cleaner, may be calm.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    @47 “Let’s face it, could there be a WORSE government?”

    Well, people said the same thing about Menem...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    You are right Magnus. It could always get worse. That's why it has become crucial to end that disgusting habit of following Argentinian mythology and start promoting common sense.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    common sense = foreign subjugation.

    NEVER

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Be very scared, this is the next generation running a country.
    They're doomed

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    52
    You make me laugh.
    So if common sense = foreign subjugation, then the lack of common sense would be what? Paradise?
    Oh, you are right!!
    Thanks for bringing me back to the light. I will now start worshiping our demigods again. I am saved.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jonaz_BsAs

    I am back in Buenos Aires and I cannot believe the current state of this country: Callao seems to be permanently blocked by picketers, same with several streets in Microcentro. Furthermore, the bank account of my company was just plundered by the authorities, 5% of all transactions retroactively - 20 000 pesos was looted. No warning, no explanation, no nothing.

    If some one still is a supporter of this government, that person must be mentally ill, a K-psycopath or both.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    55
    Ks supporters are delusional.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    55. There was a study that showed if your business was in Capital Federal and you paid every tax you'd actually be paying 108% of your profit.

    And they wonder why...

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @47 ChrisR

    Yes in Stevie's world there are no assets nor income. Just debt. It exists in a vacuum.

    And that debt is owed to no one. Because then it would an asset to someone else wouldn't it.

    So we don't do anything but live on borrowed money.

    What I think is amazing is that after all this time of doing nothing, all we have done is clock up 3 years worth of GDP in debt!

    I don't have the heart to tell him how quickly some assets wipe out that debt of A$4.5 trillion:

    Superannuation = A$1.5 trillion
    Assets of top 5 major banks = US$3 trillion.

    Wow that was easy.

    http://www.forbes.com/global2000/list/#page:1_sort:5_direction:desc_search:_filter:All%20industries_filter:Australia_filter:All%20states

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    Chris, free energy according to the gospel of Stevie?
    Great . 84.5% of our electricity was hydro for the past two months! plus another 8.5% produced from biofuels from UPM (ex Bothnia and other similar sources), so thermic was only 9% on imported oil.
    Have we had a reduction in our bills which rose 35% in January? Like hell we have!

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    48 A_neuTroll_Observer

    Tobi.... Let me stop you right there. I am NOT one of those brainwashed la campora deadheads ok? So you can stop with the “Pity us, pity us, We don't have enough resources, We don't have enough resources wah, wah, wah”

    It's doesn't wash ok? I know you are lying and anyone reading your post will also know that you are lying. Jesus, you're more full of b*lls**t than a herd of frightened cows.

    Let me ask you question. I already know the answer. In fact friend yankeeboy and ChrisR already know the answer but let us see if you know shall we?

    What has happened to turn “one of the richest countries in South America” ( your words by the way, your words from about 6 months ago ) into “one of the poorest in the Americas”??

    Could it be that KFC has been stealing all the money that she should have spent on improving the country?

    No further questions your honour

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    60
    I knew all that fried chicken would eventually end up being bad for us ...

    I know you meant CFK ... sorry for the cheap joke.

    Someone, like neuTroll, that equates common sense to foreign subjugation won't show up for this one. At this moment he's busy applauding Lady Fried Chicken.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cornelius

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Of course free speech is the last thing Latin American understand that is why are condemn to be third world for the foreseeable future.

    Feb 13th, 2014 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Bergara's right, of course. For once. The Argentines I've met in the last couple of days all agree. But being a minister, he shouldn't have said it on the record. Reminds me of the time former president Batlle said that Argentine politicians were a bunch of crooks. He had to apologize for saying it
    (he didn't realize the mike was still on after a press conference) but nobody thought to ask him to say that Argentine politicians were honest!

    Feb 13th, 2014 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    But, but, but - who cares where the Argentine government is heading or who is in charge?

    The Argentines, perhaps, and some Uruguayans who haven't left their craddle ... anyone else?

    Feb 13th, 2014 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    That's a lot more than those who cares about what you lot think...

    Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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