MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Incident with British flagged cruise vessel in Buenos Aires: 'unacceptable example of intimidation'
According to reports in the British media, Cunard's 'Queen Victoria' was warned it faced hefty fines if the cruise continued to fly the red ensign while in the port of Buenos Aires. This has led to a strong reaction from the Foreign Office which described the incident as an 'unacceptable example of harassment and intimidation” and anticipated it will be raising the incident with the Argentine authorities. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWell, what did we expect??
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just when we thought that argentina could sink no lower in our estimation, she goes and sinks a little deeper into her own festering sewage.
Shame on you argentina, shame on you, on your children and on your childrens children.
Keep this up and Tobi's dream of isolation will become a reality.
Now GFO
I understand that the RG's are now denying that the incident took place. is anyone surprised?
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a despicable country.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0” part of an Argentine ban on all British non-military ships flying the red ensign, as “an insult to the nation”.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, they are too cowardly to challenge any military ships-typical Argentina, good at bullying anything unarmed and even better at running away with their tails between their legs whimpering when anything with as much as a bow and arrow confronts them.
Honestly, the English fight for anything. I agree with Argentina: English ships should fly the “Union Jack” flag while in our waters or ports.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Offshore they can hoist the pirate flag.
I think we all know as the end gets nearer for that shit hole of a country, their behaviour will become more and more unruly. They are behaving exactly to type and we should prepare for anything.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 010k to not lower the flag?
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rule Brittania...
@7
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes you could learn a lesson or two from us, instead of kissing their arse all the time which gets you absolutely nowhere.
You mean we should lower our flag?
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hahahaha!
@5 Brasileiro
Feb 13th, 2014 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Honestly, the English fight for anything”
So do Argentina, as long as the opposition is weaker than them.
That's why Argentina are excellent bullies.
That is actually true, Pete.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet another reason the English must leave, we have enough with one of those...
11 Stevie
Feb 13th, 2014 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What English must leave where?
Don't you worry Joe, you're an islander.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no issues with the islanders.
@5 i think bellend you mean “british” and we dont fight for just anything, just the things worth defending, the english havent fought as a seperate army for some while now in fact brazil was still in the hands of the portuguese long after england had its own army, so please go suck on your brazil nuts and read up on history.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it seems Argentina is becoming an increasingly unstable 3rd world mafia state, the international organisations have a duty to safeguard globe trotting tourists and warn them of potential “trouble” that may occur upon visiting any corrupt dictatorship run tinpot latam country that refuses to recognize human rights.
It's the English, mate. Believe me.
Feb 13th, 2014 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Scots, the Welsh and the North... No, those are English too...
The Scots and the Welsh did what they had to do. In survival mode they chose to go with the “If you can't beat them, join them”-tactic. A necessary move that will haunt them forever...
Doesn't mean all the English are bad though, relax.
It's just, historically and recently, you are just being superior to anyone else in being a bullying, invasive arse of a Nation...
@15It's just, historically and recently, you are just being superior to anyone else in being a bullying, invasive arse of a Nation... Argentina
Feb 13th, 2014 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ #7
Feb 14th, 2014 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually I would rather lower the flag than pay the Argies a single £ more than I had to. Although I would try to re-route to non-Argie ports first.
@15 you forgot Northern Ireland which also makes up The British Armed Forces and by my recollection people joined by a matter of Pride not persuasion.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0as for bullying that is a matter of your opinion but not fact is it ?
so what would you call Argentinas decision to threaten liners yet again with “Trouble” amongst other things?? in your opinion of course.
You are asking me to have an opinion on a “fact” told from the point of view of a Brit ex military...
Feb 14th, 2014 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have no comments on his opinions...
Oh, you pesky Trolls,
Feb 14th, 2014 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 09 Stevie
“You mean we should lower our flag?
Hahahaha!”
says Stevie who has already lowered his pants for Argentina.
And Brasiliero @5...
Yeah, yeah. “ Brazil... where the nuts come from”
It is unfortunate the British do not understand Argentina suffers from PTSS, from two attempted invasions of Buenos Aires, which thankfully failed.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 03:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0While unfortunate that it has to occur, it is completely comprehensible that the British war flag flying near Buenos Aires' port would make people uncomfortable given the bellicose attitude of the UK towards Argentina throughout history.
Just as the Falklanders demand Argentine vessels lower their flags at Port Stanley, do to the same PTSS effects.
What a bunch of cry babies.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure this will all be resolved once the islands are returned.
Video of the events
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqBBQ5J9BrA
Gutless, spineless, pathetic, vindictive Argentine Authorities.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 04:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go join them Brasileiro you thick twat with your nonsensical dribble.
it seems it was another lie of a british media about argentina and counting.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 04:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=728576
or admiral lord west of spithead (spit head?), may have been drunk and created all this issue?
who knows.
Maybe the author of these reports, (West) needs to go back to school.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 04:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina provides another example of how to commit economic suicide and why she is the laughingstock of Latin America.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Talking about returning stolen property(by the British of course)
Feb 14th, 2014 - 05:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0”George Clooney has said that the UK should give back the Parthenon marbles to Greece. Are you with him?
Should Britain return the Parthenon marbles to Greece?
88% Yes
12% No
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/poll/2014/feb/12/george-clooney-elgin-marbles-monument-men-poll
@27
Feb 14th, 2014 - 06:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0When it's self-determination that goes against the UK, self-determination doesn't count.
Get with the program man.
@ Marcos
Feb 14th, 2014 - 06:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Personally i would like to see us make a gift to the Greek people of a substantial portion of the marbles, but not because anyone says we should. I believe we should retain a small sample of them for legitimate museum reasons but currently we have far too much of them.
After Clooney's involvement in Argo which sought to besmirch the UK and New Zealand officials in Tehran who risked their necks to protect the Americans but are presented in the film as turning them away, I have to say I'm not remotely bothered by his views on anything. He is a great actor, but why do they think their views are more important or informed than anyone elses?
@27
Feb 14th, 2014 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think an American is going to get very far telling the UK to return museum exhibits to their country of origin, they might want to look in their own museums first, like the temple of dendur in the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
#27
Feb 14th, 2014 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why stop at the Parthenon marbles? Why not return everything that was stolen from someone else in the last 500 years, like say the entirety of Argentina? Hypocrite.
It's also kind of funny that if we hadn't acquired them it's incredibly likely they would have been destroyed or lost over the last century.
@21
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Red Ensign is the identifying flag of Civilian Vessels, NOT Warships.
@27 & 29
How often have Hollywood movies changed history?
Enigma for instance. But Argo was quite disgusting in the bad portrayal of our diplomats who took risks for the Americans, but the film lied, for dramatic effect.
As for a poll in the Guardian. This is a left wing newspaper, actually I quiet like it. But it has an agenda.
Wasn't there a poll in the Telegraph a few months back where some 80%+ of the correspondents were from Argentina. Strangely enough that poll sided with the Argie POV.
@21 :
Feb 14th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It is unfortunate the British do not understand Argentina suffers from PTSS, from two attempted invasions of Buenos Aires, which thankfully failed”
Did they ? 7 years later , with British help , the Criollos expelled the Spanish . Most of San Martin's and Browns officers were British , or don't they teach at Escuela Campora ?
“While unfortunate that it has to occur, it is completely comprehensible that the British war flag flying near Buenos Aires' port would make people uncomfortable ”
The Red Ensign is the merchant marine flag , dummy .
You shit yourself when the Blue or White ensign is hoisted .
“ given the bellicose attitude of the UK towards Argentina throughout history ”
Sorry , which parallel universe are you from ?
Without Britain , there would be no Argentina .
Are you genuinely ignorant , or simply taking the piss ?
This will be interesting. There are strict rules about flying ensigns. A merchant vessel, particularly a British-registered vessel, is required to fly its national ensign when entering or leaving harbour and when in foreign waters. It is a requirement because the vessel operates under the laws and regulations of the flag state. In the event of any incident that might give rise to action under admiralty law, it provides a clear statement of which nation is responsible for the vessel.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Curiously, the following information can be taken from the Falkland Islands Basic Harbour Information:
”In accordance with International custom, all vessels entering Falkland Islands ports should fly the flag of its country of registry on the stern and a Falkland Islands courtesy flag (Union flag, British Red Ensign, Falkland Islands’ Defaced Red or Blue Ensign) from the main mast.“
So it would seem that the ”information“ @21 is just another argie lie. Just like its supposed ”justification“. Let's take a look at that ”justification“.
”It is unfortunate the British do not understand Argentina suffers from PTSS, from two attempted invasions of Buenos Aires, which thankfully failed.“ It is indeed unfortunate that argies ”suffer“ from something that took place before there was an argieland. Something akin to France ”suffering“ from Roman invasions when there was no France!
But there's more! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_invasions_of_the_R%C3%ADo_de_la_Plata
As can be read, the British attempts to seize control of the SPANISH colonies actually fostered the desire for SELF-DETERMINATION. It seems curious that a bunch of genocidal ”criollos“ should seek self-determination for themselves on stolen land, whilst their descendants who, but for the British, would probably still be a SPANISH colony, regularly commit crimes in order to deny British-descended people the same opportunity and ”right”. Very strange!
@27
Feb 14th, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Return the Parthenon Marbles to Greece, typical Argie nonsense. Why should we return the marbles to Greece? we haven't finished our game yet. Comon John your throw now.
When are you going to give back Patagonia?
@27 Marcos,
Feb 14th, 2014 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0lf you are talking about the Elgin marbles, do you know the real story or are you just another anti-English idiot?
l agree that they should be returned to Greece.
But Lord Elgin BOUGHT & PAID FOR the marble freizes from the Turkish authorities who ruled Greece at that time.
l know that the phrase“BOUGHT & PAID FOR” would be a strange one for most Argentines to understand, but thats what really, really happened.
We must also recognise that, in those times, many Greek marble statues were being crushed for road base.
So if the Greeks want the Elgin Marbles, then they should not only PAY for them, but should also gratefully acknowledge to Lord Elgin's descendents for saving them from the crusher.
Only like to see the right thing done, eh, Marcos
Now stop trying to score cheap points, you poltroon.
retaliatory punitive measure should be taken the FI government allowed the Argentine national flag to be flown at the cemetery's of the argentine soldiers out of respect for them, but if the Argies wish to be disrespectful it can work two ways, they should remove the Argentine national flag from flying over the cemeteries and only allow small hand held flags at the graves. to allow the argies to continue with their pettiness will only lead to more serious situations later.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Warned about a “hefty fine”. Hmmm. Given previous Argie threats about legal action and fines/prison, I wouldn't have worried too much.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some say,
Feb 14th, 2014 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the captain should have refused and caused a diplomatic incident,
As a point of interest in law there is no such person as the 'captain' of a merchant vessel when the official language of the Flag State is English.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Certificate of Competency of the officer in command of a vessel such as the Queen Victoria would be as a 'Master of Foreign Going Steamship' ( I don't know if the appropriate authorities have noticed yet but most ships nowadays are motor [diesel] powered).
In this particular case it appears that the Master was/is female, no difference, she is still, officially the 'Master' of the vessel. All English language versions of the International Conventions (SOLAS, MARPOL, Loadline, Tonnage etc.) dealing with merchant shipping refer to the Master of the vessel.
I have seen the officials of a Port State 'invent' 'regulations' that exist nowhere but in their mind, and shipowners/managers will, as a generalization, go along with their demands to avoid 'fines', 'difficulties', delays etc. at the time and in the future.
I do not know what it is like nowadays but not that many years ago it was known what the 'hidden costs' of doing business in a great many ports were, 'backhanders', 'buchshees' or whatever they were called were factored into the cost of doing business despite what certain Governments claimed!
@28- “When it's self-determination that goes against the UK, self-determination doesn't count”
Feb 14th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll give you that, after recent talk that the UK govt would deny Scotland independence whilst at the same time go against the Edinburgh agreement. What a democratic state that I live in, lol.
Hopefully the latest political posturing and bluffing will backfire on them, unless the BBC continues to collude with the Unionists.
@ 36 lsolde writes:
Feb 14th, 2014 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Marcos, ... are you just another anti-English idiot?”
Isolde, Isolde, after all these years you should - no, you must know, that Marcos Alejandro is just another anti-English idiot.
@36 Isolde my thoughts exactly.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are prized for their art rather than their antiquity,so send them back after making plaster casts of them which can still grace the BM.
36 Señora Isolde
Feb 14th, 2014 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PMS again? :-)
I am not anti-anybody, I am anti-thieves.
They are called Parthenon marbles , since when stolen good take the name of the thief?
The British museum is like walking through the loot vault of the world's biggest thief, England.
42
Feb 14th, 2014 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ that Marcos Alejandro is just another anti-English idiot.”
Lord Elgin was Scottish......
“ that Marcos Alejandro is just another anti-Scottish idiot.”
Feb 14th, 2014 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)))))))
It seems like there is a lot of confusion here. The Red Ensign is used by British merchant and other civilian shipping. It has nothing to do with pirates or warships of the Royal Navy.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0George Clooney appears ill-informed. The Elgin marbles originated from the Parthenon; the 5th century BC temple to the goddess Athena built on top of the Acropolis in Athens. The Pantheon is an ancient Roman temple built in the 2nd century AD.
The British Museum one of the worlds treasure houses of mans creativity, freely available to all has maintained and preserved the Elgin marbles in a manner beyond Greece’s ability. No one doubts that if Greece had been entrusted with them, they would now be in as terrible a state as the remaining marbles, some of which are now lost.
@41 Were there bits you forgot?
Feb 14th, 2014 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Both governments agreed that the referendum should:
have a clear legal base
be legislated for by the Scottish Parliament
be conducted so as to command the confidence of parliaments, government and people
deliver a fair test and decisive expression of the views of people in Scotland and a result that everyone will respect”
So the SNP lies. Want a list? Salmond is a corrupt crook. And this will have “the confidence of parliaments, government and people” Note that it says “parliaments”. By extension this means both parliaments and ALL people. Not just Scottish. After all, scots are like argies. They lie a lot.
Then there's “a result that everyone will respect” Not “a result that scots will respect”. “everyone”. Did you really think England was as stupid as Scotland?
@44 Really? They aren't called the “Parthenon marbles”. It's the “Elgin marbles”. So you are anti the thieves that stole the land you are, supposedly, living on? Going to give it back? Why not? Everybody's in the wrong except you? The British Museum is nowhere near the size of the area the thieves currently call “Argentina”.
@46 The truth is that “that Marcos Alejandro is just another thieving, illegitimate, genocidal, arse-licking faggot” with no brain. Has anybody chopped his willy off yet? Need to get out there and do that. Then there's billiards. Smack the ball into the rear pocket!
Hear-hear
Feb 14th, 2014 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who happens to live in the UK because he does not have the balls, another word for courage, to live in his own country. “Poor, poor Marcos.”
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The turmoil of cowardice!
A hero dies but one death, a coward dies a thousand!
Bloody shame we have to witness it on here.
@44 Marcos A,
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OK, You're not an anti-English idiot, you're just an idiot.
What part of “bought & paid for”, did you not understand?
So Lord Elgin was not a thief, if he PAID for the Marbles.
l knew that you Argentines would have trouble understanding the concept of actually paying for something.
Easier just to “claim” it or whine to the world that it was stolen from you.
You know, how you stole Patagonia & parts of Paraguay.
When ARE you going to return Paraguay's land?
@45 A_Voice,
Do you think that an ignorant person like Marcos, knew who Lord Elgin was?
Or if he was Scottish, English or even Mongolian?
Come to think about it, do you really think that Marcos knows anything at all.?
He's just completely ignored the PAID FOR phrase, because it doesn't suit his miniscule brain.
Trying to get the truth from malvinistas is like trying to get the toothpaste back in the tube.
44 Marcos Alejandro
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”PMS again? :-)”
Ha, ha, ha!!! Nice one Marcos!!!!
Now you are not just an idiot, now you are a sexist idiot as well!!!
Are you going to try and stoop lower?
Trying to dismiss Friend Isolde's comments as the product of a temporary hormonal imbalance and not clear thinking on her part just goes to show what a gutless, worthless turdy you are.
Please run along now and die, there's a lamb.
Lots of love from
The U.K
P.S:- I hope your all your children get small Penises.... and that includes the girls!!
Marcos Alejando lives here in the UK.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He is a total and utter creep, who spends his time shitting on the nation that gives him the freedoms he enjoys to post on here!
As such, he is a remarkable represetation of an Argentine!
I would not piss on a one of them if they were on fire!!!!!
51 lsolde
Feb 14th, 2014 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How's the gold investment going?
Not to worry the “oil province” is coming :-)))))
”Lord Byron attacked Elgin in stinging verses, lamenting (in 'Childe Harold's Pilgrimage') how the antiquities of Greece had been 'defac'd by British hands'.
53 reality check
Feb 14th, 2014 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As such, he is a remarkable representation of an Argentine!”
He most certainly is. Why he is “a gutless, worthless turdy” AND a free loader and a brain dead moron, all at the same time....
That's quite a C.V he's got going on there.
@48- Conqueror- Want to try put a cohesive argument together rather than commit an ad-hominem?
Feb 14th, 2014 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 051 lsolde
Feb 14th, 2014 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Trying to get the truth from malvinistas is like trying to get the toothpaste back in the tube.”
Love it!!!
Is it the same as “Trying to push warm spaghetti up a cats bottom”??
Nope, more like getting an RG to believe the truth!!!!
Feb 14th, 2014 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Easy solution, the cruise ships should give BA and the rest of argentina a big miss until they learn to beahve themselves. There are plenty of other ports in SA that would be more than happy to host the liners (including Stanley).
Feb 15th, 2014 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0$10000 fine indeed! Carnival should instruct BA to stick it up their junta!
Another claim
Feb 15th, 2014 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Caribbean slave descendants, some of whose ancestors worked for David Cameron's distant family, are calling for an apology and billions of pounds in reparations”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/jamaica/10640560/Jamaicans-lead-Caribbean-calls-for-Britain-to-pay-slavery-reparations.html
60 Marcos A_Troll
Feb 16th, 2014 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Another claim,
Caribbean slave descendants, some of whose ancestors worked for David Cameron's distant family... ”
OFF -TOPIC DIVERSION !!
Marcos, you are irrelevant and inept.
Another claim
Feb 16th, 2014 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0India demands Britain to return the Koh-i-noor diamond .
UVic marionette, can you help?
62
Feb 16th, 2014 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos A_Troll,
OFF - TOPIC and IRRELEVANT, as usual.
and BORING... as expected.
Tell you what Marcos,
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0lf l had the power, l'd be prepared to “return” the Elgin Marbles to Greece if you get Argentina to return the land which you stole from Paraguay.
l'd further “return” the Koh-i-noor diamond to lndia if you get Argentina to vacate Patagonia & return it to the native peoples.
Can't get any fairer than that, eh comrade?
But knowing you malvinistas, as l do, you have to make the first move.
Deal?
60 Marcos Alejandro
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0are you real? why would David Cameron or his family pay for slaves they have never owned to people who never were slaves?
your an Argentine right?
64 lsolde
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fair enough, I will not have a problem with that as long as a valid claim exist.
The reality is that only exists in your head.
@21 “While unfortunate that it has to occur, it is completely comprehensible that the British war flag flying near Buenos Aires' port would make people uncomfortable ...”
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Except it is completely incomprehensible why anyone should become uncomfortable at what (as has been pointed out) is a definitively non-military British (or “EUian” if you prefer) flag.
It if even more incomprehensible why anyone should become uncomfortable and be anything other than welcoming to a non-military ship arriving full of people who want to spend hard currency that you are desparately short of.
Unless you are idiots.
For future reference, the time to get uncomfortable is when you see a Royal Navy warship flying a large version of the white ensign from its main mast.
@66 Marcos,
Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0What valid claim only exists in my head,
1) That Lord Elgin PAID FOR the Elgin Marbles, he(nor the British nation)did not steal or loot them. PAID FOR, Marcos.
2) Yes the Koh-i-noor diamond was probably looted.
We would have just got it before the Dutch,French or Portuguese did.
lndia was backwards & mired in superstition. Most foreign countries just helped themselves to lndian wealth.
No excuse of course..
Tell you what, we'll give them the diamond & they can tear up all the railway track that we laid & return the scrap steel to the UK :-))))))))))
3) That Argentina stole Paraguayan land? Yes we know that.
4) That Argentina invaded Patagonia, murdered the native peoples then stole their land. Yes we know that too.
So Marcos, it boils down to the fact that we are no worse than you, but we don't keep telling lies about our past.
You do.
QED
4) The relative natives of eastern side of the Patagonia had a habit of plundering, sacking and raping the Argentine heartlands...
Feb 17th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conqueror can probably put mw right if I'm mistaken, but isn't Argentina's making British vessels fly the Union Jack rather than the Red Ensign actually contrary to law? If so, can the Argentine officials involved be reported to some international entity that would put an end to it?
Feb 17th, 2014 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@69CabezaDura2,
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those “Argentine heartlands”had been stolen from other native peoples, earlier.
ALL of Argentina has been stolen from the natives.
ALL Argentines are squatters.
l don't say that this is necessarily evil, but Argentines should remember this when they accuse us as “squatters”
lf we are…then so are you.
The only difference is that we never killed anyone for our land.
Argentina did kill.
71
Feb 17th, 2014 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I’m not saying you are squatters. I’m saying that the actual Mapuche tribes that attacked Argentine and European settlers in the center of the country, but what was then the southern border came from Chile in the XIX Century, ( Spain colonized roughly half of the Pampas in the XVI Century its true that they killed the natives, but they were actually other civilizations from those of the south) were from the western side of the Andes, they settled mostly in what is Neuquen & Rio Negro (North west Argentine Patagonia) and expanded and submitted Tehuelches and other natives of this side of the Andes. Eventually they launched attacks and raids from deep in Patagonia well into the Province of BsAs, South Cordoba, San Luis & Santa Fe. Frontier lands were buffer-zones between the colonists and the Indians, they were not necessarily habited by the Indians who were nomadic
68 lsolde
Feb 18th, 2014 - 04:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is Paraguay claiming anything to Argentina?
No
By the way. many Argentineans ancestors were in this land before the Romans founded Londinium and many foreigners moved to this land as well but no one claim any piece of this land for their country of origin, big difference.
General Roca actions were shameful, but nothing compares to the millions that Britain starved to death in India and Ireland, three million Africans enslaved and sent across the Atlantic and many other atrocities around the globe.
Another British invention, concentration camps(South Africa)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LizzieVanZyl.jpg
73 Marcos
Feb 18th, 2014 - 06:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0”nothing compares to the millions that Britain starved to death in India and Ireland, three million Africans enslaved and sent across the Atlantic and many other atrocities around the globe.
Another British invention, concentration camps(South Africa)“
Marcos,
OFF-TOPIC - ”whataboutery” and trolling to DIVERT discussion
Marcos
Feb 18th, 2014 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you actually READ the heading of the topic for discussion ?
Maybe MercoPress could give you a topic all to yourself where you could rhyme off your rants to your hearts content. You could even reply and agree with your own posts. I am sure that would give you a happy glow of satisfaction.
“The whole world agrees with Marcos ”
Well, l lost all that but l really couldn't be bothered to type it out again!
Feb 18th, 2014 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bugger, & it was good too.
No, Marcos, the British didn't invent Concentration Camps.
The Spanish had them in Cuba before we had them.
And you know this because its been raised before.
So stop lying.
No Marcos, the British didn't cart all those slaves to the Americas.
A lot of nations participated including, wait for it, Spain.
And those slaves were often sold to the Europeans by the African chiefs.
And those same slaves were eagerly bought by the SPANISH colonists in South America.
And we're not just talking about General Roca.
We acknowledge the past sins of our ancestors, do you?
Now that you've successfully diverted the thread away from its original context, l'll turn you back.
Do you now admit that the Elgin Marbles were PAID for & not looted?
Isolde,
Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every one of the statements on Marcos list is a perversion of the truth - far too many to reply to each.
As an example,
It is a common fallacy to equate the British “concentration camps” of the Boer War with what that term came to represent with the Germans.
It was not intended for occupants to die, as part of a deliberate policy, as Marcos implies.
Marcos is OFF TOPIC TROLLING
I don’t understand why people in both Argentina and abroad talk about the desert conquest as if the American push to the west over the Siux and Apachean tribes was peaceful. Or as if the Indians from Patagonia had not got involved and participated in the Argentine Civil wars consistently during most of the XIX Century after independence, and actually the Vorogas supported the Spanish Royalist in the emancipation wars.
Feb 18th, 2014 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 076 lsolde ”Do you now admit that the Elgin Marbles were PAID for & not looted?
Feb 19th, 2014 - 03:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Possession of stolen goods is a crime, purchased or not.
Many in Britain compared Elgin's actions to vandalism or looting, I wonder why.
The Parthenon Marbles belong to Greece.
Malvinas belong to Argentina.
@79 Marcos,
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's where you are wrong again, dear Marcos.
l have explained to you how Lord Elgin saved them from the crusher.
Doesn't seem to get through to you.
l have explained to you how Lord Elgin PAID the Turkish authorities for the Marbles.
Again doesn't seem to get through to you.
Perhaps the Turks “stole” them, l don't know.
They were no much valued by the Greeks at that time.
They sold much of their heritage.
They should be grateful that European & American buyers valued what they did not.
l agree the Elgin Marbles should be returned to Greece.
But the Greeks should refund Lord Elgin's money(with interest, lol!)& publicly thank his descendents for saving them from being used as roadbase.
Anyway, what has this got to do with you & Argentina?
The malvinas(where are they & what are they?)can belong to anyone, Argentina, l don't care.
However if you mean the Falklands, (& its nothing that l can put my finger on, but l have a sneaking suspicion that you, in fact, do. lol!)then you are very, very wrong.
The Falklands have NEVER belonged to Argentina.
Why on earth would you think that?
Where is your evidence?
All the reasons that Argentina gives to own OUR land has been PROVED to be lies.
lf you are so sure, then the ICJ awaits you.
I would have thought that in any self respecting state having a person out and about calling himself “Lord West of Spithead” would be an insult to the nation. That this person appears to be a member of the UK Legislature is an additional insult. The UK really should give democracy a try.
Feb 20th, 2014 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0#81 Hepatitis
Feb 20th, 2014 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike the john-come lately Argentine version of democracy which was declared in the aftermath of Argentine’s defeat in the Falklands war, democracy in the UK began to evolve hundreds of years ago to become a true as possible representation of the will of the people. The British people invented democracy!
In a true democracy a person can call himself whatever he likes, that may be a foreign notion to you but that’s your problem.
#79 Marcos, British Museum as well The Metropolitan of NYC and Louvre of Paris, have legally “paided” great pieces :-)
Feb 20th, 2014 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0......is shocking when you see them ....increidibles thieves. disgusting.
p.d. queraroquepíerdaseltiempohablandoconesahijadeMP
salu2
@83 so_far,
Feb 20th, 2014 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What an intelligent, well researched & highly credible article you wrote.
You sir, are a complete moron.
But carry on, l shouldn't laugh at the afflicted, but l couldn't help it with you.
Perhaps you should go back to imitating frogs. lol!
#84
Feb 20th, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I did not understand a word of that at #83. Did you ?
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/02/13/incident-with-british-flagged-cruise-vessel-in-buenos-aires-unacceptable-example-of-intimidation#comment309884: The British people invented democracy? Really? Is that what they teach you in the UK? That's strange because here in the US we were taught as children that the Greeks invented democracy. No mention of the British people then.
Feb 20th, 2014 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The US entered WWI in order to make the world safe for democracy. But there was a problem. Of the three Entente powers only France could claim to be democratic. The big difference between the French and British armies was that the soldiers of the former had the vote.
The fact is that while the US did not start out as a democracy it has always been much more democratic than the UK. And so it is today. In fact it was the US that shamed the UK to introduce a limited democracy in 1918. So, rather than inventing democracy, the British people had to look to America for its introduction.
It is true that in a democracy a person may call themselves what they may. But, by doing so, they may not claim to be legislators. In a democracy candidates are elected to Congress by a universal franchise.
It appears that you neither understand the reality of your history or your present political condition. But this cannot be a surprise because you cannot spell either.
#86
Feb 21st, 2014 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0And when did the black population gain democracy in the USA ?
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/02/13/incident-with-british-flagged-cruise-vessel-in-buenos-aires-unacceptable-example-of-intimidation#comment310102: Later than they should have. What is your point?
Feb 21st, 2014 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#86
Feb 21st, 2014 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I partly agree with your statement at para 1, except Greek Democracy did not apply to slaves.
Interesting hypothesis about the USA shaming Britain into introducing a limited democracy....your source for this is ?
Maybe the UK were shamed by New Zealand... a colony who were ahead of the USA.
Did Britain shame America into allowing Blacks to vote in 1964/5 ?
@89 Clyde15,
Feb 21st, 2014 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comments are correct.
NZ was the first country in the world to give women the vote.
South Australia was the first place, but of course that is only part of Aust.
l don't take too much notice of Hepatia, he/she has demonstrated his/her extreme dislike for us & the UK everytime he/she posts. So, biased.
And as for our highly intelligent, so_far, l mostly ignore the idiot.
l think that he must be only a first or second generation Argentine.
He was posting in Croatian on here once.
After WWII a lot of black US Servicemen wanted to stay in Britain & Australia as they were treated better than in the good old USA.
Says something, yes?
@90 Isolde
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0“NZ was the first country in the world to give women the vote”
Although perhaps not a country, women on Pitcairn Island were able to vote before the women in New Zealand. However that may be nit-picking for which I apologise, as in such a small community it would have been impossible to ignore the ladies.
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/02/13/incident-with-british-flagged-cruise-vessel-in-buenos-aires-unacceptable-example-of-intimidation#comment310217: The British propaganga on women's suffrage is interesting. The true story is that following the Revolution many US states had equal suffrage. Most famous was NJ in which both men and women voted. The problem was that the suffrage was not universal.
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As universal suffrage became a goal women began to lose the vote. This was the injustice that women fought against. The first victory was when Wyo. joined the Union in 1867. Wyo. then had universal suffrage - male and female. Other western states followed soon after.
It is important to note that the women could vote for the US president and congress as well as all the state offices in 1867. This is a right still denied British women. No British woman can vote for the UK president or senate in 2014!
So what may have happened in British colonies, which are necessarily inferior to US states, was a 'day late and a dollar short'.
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