MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina says 'Queen Victoria' alleged incident was nonexistent, “just rumors”
The Argentine Foreign Ministry denied in a statement released on Thursday that Buenos Aires sea port authorities threatened Bermuda registered 'Queen Victoria' Cunard cruise ship with hefty fines if it did not lower its “red duster” flag, the ensign for the United Kingdom merchant vessels. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesWell at least if they are attempting to deny it then they are sufficiently embarrassed that it happened. As for “bilateral”, they can have trilateral or unilateral (on their own) but that's the closest they are getting. The UK has no legal right (or desire) to negotiate away the rights, interests or wishes of the FIs without the representatives of the islands being present and so Argentina should just accept that and move on. What they expect to get from either variety of talks is unclear but that's for another day.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0As far as Britain and the Falkland Islanders are convened there is no dispute concerning the sovereignty of the archipelago so why on earth should they discuss it with anyone - muchos menus Argeentina!
Feb 14th, 2014 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whether the incident is true or false, the simply fact is that it is an entirely conceivable possibility.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0UN Security Council Resolution 502 was not only more recent but actually BINDING and Argentina ignored that so how about go fug yourselves?
Feb 14th, 2014 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who to believe, the captain of the ship and the trust placed in her by an ex First Sea Lord or the port authorities that have been harrassing shipping for years?
Feb 14th, 2014 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0At least it probably won't happen again.
The Argentine Foreign Ministry,.... say what!
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0As has been observed:
“la falsificación de la historia en sí es un rasgo de la cultura nacional”.
“falsifying history is in fact one of the characteristics of the (Argentine) national culture”
another lie of the british media.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0not a surprise.
must be embarrassing.
I must say if (and with the Argentines you can't take anything they say seriously)the ship was asked to fly the Bermuda flag-that's hardly an insult, in fact what's wrong with the Bermuda flag? It's British! I'm surprised that Argentina lets in ships registered with a British BOT, without ranting on about colonialism.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Finally the Argentine release reiterates that the British authorities instead of repeating false rumors should accept their obligation of abiding by UN resolutions which call for a bilateral negotiation to resolve the sovereignty dispute referred to the Malvinas, South Georgia, South Sandwich Islands and adjoining maritime spaces”
Because when Islanders are present (as they were pre-82 in negotiations between Argentina and the UK), the Argentines refuse to accept that presence, therefore going against 'UN resolutions' which have an aside that Independence is the preferred option and that the provisions of the UN Charter must be taken into account, something the Argentines refuse to do.
Never mind the interests of the population also part of the resolution.
What is the point in negotiating with a country that doesn't even understand the text of the resolutions?
Besides which if the Argentines have a case-go to the ICJ
See that, Nostrils, Stevie et al. It never happened! All that tub-thumping, martial rhetoric was a total waste of effort.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hang on, though. Doesn't argieland lie a lot? Remember those pictures of one of Britain's nuclear ballistic missile submarines sailing, on the surface, close to argie waters. The pictures that turned out to be of a British nuclear-powered (they all are) non-ballistic missile fleet submarine in Scottish waters. Good old tinboy. Oh look, this is a “statement” from tinboy's ministry. So, on the argie side, we have habitual liars.
Let's look at the “British” side. As the article mentions Admiral Lord West was, at one time, Britain's First Sea Lord. He was also captain of HMS Ardent when it was sunk by argies in 1982. Doesn't really seem to be the sort of person to lie. But then there's the captain of the 'Queen Victoria“. Captain Inger Olsen is Cunard's FIRST female captain. She comes from the Faroe Islands, an autonomous country within the Kingdom of Denmark. Doesn't seem like she'd have any reason to ”lie for Britain“. Wouldn't that put her position as Cunard's first female captain at risk? Seems a strange thing for the Faroese captain of a 90,000 tonne, £270 million liner to do.
Perhaps the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is waiting for the M/S Queen Victoria to return to Southampton to talk to the captain and inspect the vessel's log? M/S Queen Victoria is due back in Southampton on 28 April 2014.
Probably not a ”casus belli“, yet. Do hope ”paulcedron“ is around when the lies come home to roost. In fact, I reckon all these latam ”trolls“ should volunteer for the front line. Or perhaps they'd like to try an argie illegal ”trick“ from '82. Paint a big red cross on their homes. Have big red crosses on their chests and backs. The top of their heads. Argie ”red crosses” are now targets.
admiral lord west of spit-head must be a another british drunk who invented all this fantasy during the dinner.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and the british media gave him credit.
now they should clarify it was all a lie.
must be embarrassing
@7 paulcedron
Feb 14th, 2014 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Must make a change from lies by the Argentina government eh?
Argentina says 'Queen Victoria' alleged incident was nonexistent, “just rumors
Feb 14th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain says the Falkland's alleged sovereignty issue was non-existent,
just rumors..
@10
Feb 14th, 2014 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 01833 - Displaced Argentine civilian population: Joaquin Acuna and his partner; Mateo Gonzalez and his partner. x4 .
The day Argentine Government ever told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
Feb 14th, 2014 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the world would collapse in disbelief and CFK would rule the world,
mmmmm
another lie...lol
It's called 'economic suicide.'
Feb 14th, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 13 Brit Bob
Feb 14th, 2014 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“1833 - Displaced Argentine civilian population: Joaquin Acuna and his partner; Mateo Gonzalez and his partner. x4 ”
Not quite. The Argentine state did not exist at that time. It came into existence in 1859 (at the earliest) or in 1861.
As late as 23 October 1859 (even as late as 17 September 1861, although this might be disputed) there were:
two states (La Confederación and Estado de Buenos Ayres)
two capitals (Paraná and Buenos Ayres)
two constitutions (1853 (La Confederación) and 1854 (Estado de Buenos Aires))
two de facto presidents (Urquiza (Santiago Derqui in 1861) and Alsina (with the title 'Supreme Director') resp.)
two senats
two congresses
The war between the Confederation and Buenos Aires lasted nearly a decade until, in the 2nd Battle of Cepeda 23 October 1859, the Argentine Confederation army defeated Estado de Buenos Ayres's army, following which Mitre ultimately abrogated the Pact of San José, recreating the same two states and leading to renewed civil war.
These hostilities culminated in the Battle of Pavón 18 September 1861, when Bartolomé Mitre and Buenos Ayres defeated Urquiza's confederación forces. Confederación president Santiago Derqui, who had been backed by Urquiza, resigned and the Argentine Confederation was replaced by the Argentine Republic on 17 December 1861.
Which civilians left the Falkland Islands in January 1833?
Four civilians, namely two Brazilians and two from Banda Oriental (now Uruguay) preferred to leave.
The civilians who left were Joaquín Acuña + wife, a Brasilian and Mateo González + wife, an Uruguayan.
Source: Their affidavits in Archivo General de la Nación, Buenos Aires, Sala VII, legajo 136.
Acuña and González had arrived together with their wives in the Falklands 15 July 1831 on board the British ship 'Elbe', chartered by Luis Vernet.
@16 Thanks
Feb 14th, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't they record conversations from huge vessels like these, like they record communications between Planes and Control Towers...?
Feb 14th, 2014 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In case of navigation mistakes, procedures and errors....
@16 Don Alberto : Don't let the truth get in the way of an Argentine fantasy , it upsets the trolls . Remember , there was a peaceful Argentine settlement on the Falklands , comprising a girls school , a convent and an old people's home .
Feb 14th, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0English pirates came along and killed or expelled everyone simply out of spite , having first raped the nuns and schoolgirls .
1982 was a big misunderstanding , the task force was meant to land on some uninhabited islands off the mainland , but a drunken admiral acted against the will of the peace loving Argentine people and attacked the Falklands instead .
They were going to leave peacefully , but a British task force turned up and killed them all after they had surrendered .
Argentina is only broke because the loans they have had over the years were written in some unintelligible pirate language like English which they claim not to understand .
@18
Feb 14th, 2014 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not sure they do, would this vessel have been brought in by a pilot boat?
That would be the ideal situation for the “Appropriate” person to advise to the ships master.
@ 18 & 20
Feb 14th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A pilot boat does not take a ship in or out. It takes a pilot, perhaps 2 out to the vessel. The pilot advises the Master of local navigational hazards requirements etc. Responsibility for the safety of the vessel remains at all times with the Master.
When the vessel leaves port a pilot(s) board and perform the same duties as they did bringing the ship in. The pilot boat then takes the pilot(s) off when they have completed their duties.
Port authorities would normally board the vessel after she was secured alongside and would meet with the Master and other responsible officers in a conference room or similar compartment, perhaps even the Master's office if only a very few people were present.
I hope the Master has a witness who can/will verify what was said. I doubt that Cunard/Carnival will want to make much of a fuss about the incident as they will not want to sour relations with the RG authorities should they have anymore ship visits scheduled. The UK Government on the other hand may have a different view.
It would definitely have been brought in by a pilot at the helm...The channel into BA is very tricky .
Feb 14th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is the trouble when you lie and cheat every time you open your mouth. When will TMBOA ever learn this?
Feb 14th, 2014 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So it doesn’t really matter what they say, do they think that an Admiral of The Royal Navy would lie about this? Of course they do, all the “argies” aka Peronistas expect their military to lie to support the government, even when the government is wrong so why wouldn’t every Admiral in the world lie?
But we know the truth of the matter, which is all that matters.
apparently [according to CFK, ]
Feb 14th, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the ship forced its way into the port, stole fuel and provisions, held the dock master hostage, and then left without paying,
so they say.
The truth,
they know not what the truth is..lol
I think that I believe the captain of the vessel and her distinguished passenger over the denials of the Argentine spokesman.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton
Feb 14th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You forgot that they also evicted the civilian population.
If HMG had any gall, they would instruct them not to lower the flags and then fight them on the political stage, but I suppose like most triffling things such as this, they probably thought the effort was not worth it.
Feb 14th, 2014 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After all, who GAF about Argentine tourism and Cruise line profits, Not that important in the bigger picture of world affairs really, is it?
25 Gordo1
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You said it mate!!!
Who are you going to believe???
Former First Sea Lord, Admiral Lord West. Former Capt of HMS Ardent and a man with balls of solid rock???
Or
The Argentine Foreign Ministry
Woild those be the same people who were saying, “We are winning!”
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 029 reality check
Feb 14th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Woild those be the same people who were saying, “We are winning!””
The very same. They are the same people that keep saying “The Falklands are ours!!” as well.
Whoops typo!
Feb 14th, 2014 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine communique no1. We have sunk the Invincible.
Argentine communique no2. We have sunk the Invincible.
Argentine communique no3. We have sunk the Invincible.
Argentine communique no4. We have sunk the Invincible.
Argentine communique no5. We have sunk the Invincible.
Yep, Same people.
Leopard spots anyone?
@22 The pilot would not have been 'at the helm' that would have been a quartermaster. The pilot can only advise the Master on the course to take etc. it is up to the Master to decide if she is going to take the advice or not!
Feb 14th, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Captain was female Captain Inger Olsen-she should have reversed back and headed out of this shit hole,Argentina needs to be shown a lesson
Feb 15th, 2014 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@33 With a female captain it is a wonder they made it this far.
Feb 15th, 2014 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Next stop beached on the rocks at port Stanley!
Probably someone looking for a fat bribe made the comment about the flag.
Bring more tour boats, it keeps our local chorro's occupied so they don't rob us.
Argentine communique no6. We have sunk the Invincible.
Feb 15th, 2014 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine communique no7. We have sunk the Invincible.
Argentine communique no8. We have sunk the Invincible.
Argentine communique no9. We have sunk the Invincible.
Argentine communique no10. We have sunk the Invincible.
Argentine communique no11. We have sunk the Invincible.
MUST BE VERY EMBARRASSING!!!
Argentine communique no124. We have sunk the Invincible, but the perfidious British built a new one, sailed it out to the south atlantic, painted a new name on, sailed it back to britain and then claimed we didn't sink it...and all within 3 months!!!!
MUST BE VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY F-ing EMBARRASSING!!!
@35 It's all here - must be true
Feb 15th, 2014 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://rnwarships.informe.com/forum/chit-chat-f15/the-conspiracy-invincible-sinking-falklands-1982-t329.html
@35 I watched it sail back to Pompey on 2nd Sept 82 - Definitely not sunk. I had to chuckle because it looked brand spanking new!
Feb 15th, 2014 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Argies, still living in a fantasy world and allowing themselves to be duped by 'the Great Malvinas Lie.'
26 Anglotino
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One has to admire the Argentine navy,
Argentine sub Salta surfaced in middle of sailing race in Mar del
http://imgur.com/a/4RwRk?utm_content=bufferd96db&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
This happened a few days ago. Presumably emergency surface. Another Arg navy gaffe following ARA Santisima Trinidad sinking at moorings
Laugh a mo..lol
.
@34 Current position of the M/S Queen Victoria is currently underway from Hangoroa to Bounty Bay on Pitcairn Island. Departure was approximately 2 days 13 hours ago. Estimated arrival is in 6 hours 15 mins. Since leaving Southampton on 2 January 2014, Queen Victoria has sailed 16,678.73 nautical miles. The vessel's current course is 272°. No reports of it hitting anything. And it can't have rolled over and sunk at a mooring!
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0@36 I agree that it's funny. Although it was back in 2010. I wonder no-one pointed that Illustrious went to the Falklands to relieve Invincible. And she arrived on 28 August 1982. All material the argie “investigator” was pondering. I believe Invincible had to replace part of her propulsion system at sea in the early days of her deployment. Not really surprising that Illustrious was completed 3 months ahead of schedule, deployed and commissioned at sea.
@34 Klingon
Feb 16th, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With ANY sex of captain-it's amazing that any Argentine ships make it out of their home port, full stop. It was encouraging to see via @38 Briton that the Argentine sub Salta was asking sailing boats to assist it.
I've heard it spends most of the time sailing on the surface whilst most of the Argentine surface fleet seem to want to become submarines and sink-someone should tell Argentina that should be happening the other way around....
@37 British Bob
I'm sure I saw it come in sept 82, but perhaps I dreamed it and the RN projected a hologram. It looked quite good bearing in mind it had been sunk 5 times according to 'Corned Beef Kate'
Perhaps they should stick to fishing boats..
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 41 Briton
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Perhaps they should stick to fishing boats..”
They are! They are trying to fish theri boats out of the water.
I think they have more chance with the Belgano and that's been under since 1982.
ha ha.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anglolatino @ 3
Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly. Everyone expects the Argentines to lie. Wonder why?
does anyone really care what Argentina says, thinks or does....
Feb 21st, 2014 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0they dont accept the FI's as they are colonials,,,,what are argentinians...how is argentina theirs?....did the natives just hand it over,
argentina can not cope with the fact that they are an insignificant country at the ass end of the americas..they invaded in 1982 and showed the world their military might....a joke of a nation
@42
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Their foray into scrap metal didn't go well in 1982, but the potential for recovering what's left of their Navy, past and present could provide them with an excellent financial opportunity to recycle.
As they seem to cock up what we would call opportunities with the unparalleled ability to turn Gold into sh1t, this opportunity might even get overlooked.
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