MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Scotland independence leads to debate on the pound and EU membership
Separatist leader Alex Salmond insisted that Scotland would keep the pound if it left the UK and accused British politicians of bluffing by ruling out a currency union in a campaign of fear that would provoke a backlash from Scots. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesMercopress are going to love this for the next few months. Where is South America?
Feb 18th, 2014 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Eye will start it off then...
Feb 18th, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you cant have both,
one or the other.
Yes i'm sure that A-Voice will share with us his principles du jour very shortly lol.
Feb 18th, 2014 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 02 Briton
Feb 18th, 2014 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would have thought that, if the Bank Of England say no, then no matter how much you want it, you can't have it.
It's call “The Bank Of England” for a reason y'know.......
It is not called ”The Bank Of England ( and Scotland and Ireland and wales as well )
Bank of England... The clue is in the name.
We could just let him con the people ,
Feb 18th, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If they believe the fishy truth,
Then Scotland is the better of the three,
It has all the aces,
The oil , gat , hydro electrics , the minerals , poss gold deposits , the pound , No debts , it will join the EU,
And have a leading voice on what goes on,
Yep, it seems everybody will be better of voting Mr Salmon,
Sept it votes independence , one year later it will sail away on the golden hind, and leave the sinking ship,
And will become a mighty powerful voice in world affaires,
All I can say is,,
Lets hope they walk down the right path,
For there is NO turning back.
Make your vote count..
Still,
You could all stay, and have a nice British cuppa..
.and im off till tomorrow..
I think the biggest joke was the bit about the UK having to pay increased duty on currency transaction of Scottish goods if we didn't share the currency with them. I think that 63 Million people might not care about where they source their imports from if 5 million Scots want to charge us more. Let me think, who is likely to come off worse there...?
Feb 18th, 2014 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#4
Feb 18th, 2014 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Founded by a Scot !
#6
Check your figures before you post. The population of ENGLAND is 53.5 million.
The population of the UK is 63 million so your remark makes no sense.
Another piece of information for your edification. Anything you buy from abroad is sold in the currency of the seller. Exchange rates vary and a charge will be made for changing the currency.
You seem to think this would only apply if Scotland had a different currency.
There would be an exchange rate against Sterling. This procedure would be no different from exchanging $US or any other currency.
All goods from the EURO zone are priced in EUROS at import into the UK and Euros have to be purchased at the current exchange rate to pay for them.
It may also be news to you but England sells more to Scotland than the other way around. This being the case, maybe Scotland would not care where THEY source their imports....... Let me think, who is likely to come off worse there...?
Nice to see the latent anti-Scottish feeling of the English coming out of hiding.
You now have an excuse to vent it at long last.
I have been aware of this for about 55 years.
# 7 Mate you have forgotten that Wales and Northern Ireland have a combined population of 5m. It is not just Scotland and England that are in the UK, even if Alex tries to convince everyone that is the case.
Feb 18th, 2014 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everything bought from abroad is bought in the currency of the contract, NOT the currency of the seller. In fact everything bought from your own country is bought in the currency of the contract, not the currency of the seller. For example Jet Fuel is normally priced in USD, even if both the buyer and seller are in the UK.
English business does sell more to Scotland that the other way around, but Scottish sales are 70% to England. English sales to Scotland are much lower as a proportion. Of course if your fallacious assumption that contracts are always in the currency of the seller was right the. This would put a much larger cost on Scottish business than rUK business.
Finally if there is a Yes Vote the Scotland will adopt the pound as its currency. Long term something different may happen, but day 1, nothing else will work. What will not happen is any kind of currency union. If Scotland has just voted for independence then what democratic mandate does the Scottish FM have for surrendering its sovereignty by entering a currency union?
How arrogant are the SNP? They think a new country of 5m people can force a nation of 58m ( a nuclear nation and permanent member of the UN sec council) to enter into a currency union against the will of its people AND it thinks it can force a trading union of 300m (the largest in the world), to ignore its established processes and admit it against the Union rules and wishes of some members AND it thinks it can ignore the rule that ALL new members of the EU must agree to adopt the Euro.
7 Clyde
Feb 18th, 2014 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Nice to see the latent anti-Scottish feeling of the English coming out of hiding.
You now have an excuse to vent it at long last.
I have been aware of this for about 55 years”
Clyde, all I see is frustration and disappointment. The rest of the UK can't be feeling much love, when their neighbours are voting to reject them - I'm sure they would rather have Scotland stay.
“F@ck you !!” “Well f@ck you too, then !!”
It doesn't help that the participants in this forum are being “stirred up” by malicious posters ( ahem, guess who) that enjoy seeing us divided.
I personally feel it would be a great loss if all the “REAL” Scots seperated.
What a load of tosh, Scotland could use Monopoly money if it wanted. There's nothing to stop them using the Pound if they want to. Many countries use the US$ without needing 'permission'.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Latent anti-Scottish feeling” I know of no one who possess such feelings. Perhaps I move in civilised circles. The general tone in London at least, appears to be one of indifference, although I grant I cannot speak on behalf of millions of my fellow citizens.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0The aggressive tone within the debate stems from Alex Salmond, not his opponents. Chancellor Osborne’s comments were measured and calm. Mr Salmond promised a sophisticated rebuttal then offered nothing more than accusations.
His deputy responded to Barroso’s weekend comments by calling them “preposterous” but again offered no argument or refutation.
This is typical of the SNP, to promise that an independent Scotland would effortlessly achieve a bright and prosperous future, yet insult anyone who demands a detailed response to difficult questions.
#11 'Indifference' the view from up here is different, you should try it. Of course the view from London is different. they enjoy privileged status in the UK and the challenges faced by them are of a different nature. . You only have to look at the recent flooding to see that. 80% of new private sector jobs have been created in the SE yet we are told the whole of the UK is coming out of recession? Is HS2 being built to aid the SE or the rest of he country? If its the rest of the country why not start it at the remotest point, Aberdeen say, and work South? That way the rest of the country would get badly needed investment and the SE which apparently needs it least would be at the end of the queue? The view is not just different in Scotland, also the rest of the UK. I watched Question Time in Scunthorpe last week and these points came up from an English audience and a number of them also agreed Osborne and the other parties were trying to intimidate the SNP. Interestingly they came to the same view as many up this end, that Osborne's remarks were more likely to push people to a Yes vote than anything the Tories have done so far. No independence will not be a walk in the park and there will be challenges. Up here we know that Westminster is planning to cut the Scottish budget by £4billion so there are great challenges in voting No.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Barroso's comments have been refuted by none other than the EU Commission (my source is BBC Radio Scotland last night - didn't take them long did it). That's why she called them preposterous. Apparently there are no rules to prevent it and Scotland envisages gaining membership while still part of the EU/UK. Does the EU want a country that is resource rich, has a positive balance of trade and already meets every requirement for membership? The question is if not why not? I should also mention the opportunity to clip rUK's wings. Think about it.
Salmond is making outrageous claims to stir up anger south of the border in the hope of provoking more Scots to vote Yes. I say Scots but what I mean is the people currently residing in Scotland not Scots living in England. The founder of the BOE may well have been a Scot but Salmond would still have denied him a vote. Roll on September, a yes vote and a final, peaceful separation. Everything after that will be subject to hard fought negotiation.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is indifference in England, Wales and Northern Island because Salmond and his cohorts are not seen to be respectable or serious politicians - they are seen to be extremists with no real reason for attempting to drive through this division of the United Kingdom. All he wants is his name in the history books.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a pity it has come to this.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0An open question to all our non-malvinista(that is serious)posters.
lf Scotland decides on independence, assets are divided, debts paid, etc etc & 5 years down the track, Scotland decides that it didn't like the idea afterall & wants to be part of the UK again……do we take them back?
l would, but thats me.
What about others?
Please, no Argentine responses. This is NOT your business.
The Argentines must be getting a lot schadenfreude out of this
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ Isolde - That's a difficult question.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Certainly the main view is that the split is permanent, at least in the short-term. (20+ years?)
I would edge towards not taking Scotland back but helping them out. And that's difficult for me to say as my family are all Scottish (and all No voters).
The Scots would never ask to come back. Even with their kilts to the wall.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0@15 Isolde
Feb 19th, 2014 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Although I believe in the Union, if Scotland wants to go it alone, so be it, it's their choice.
What I would object to is Scotland believing it can dip in and out of the Union as it suits them. Basically leave, but when it gets tough, return and have the rest of the UK pick up the tab.
I believe that the rest of the citizens of the UK won't stand for it. We are not here to bankroll Scotland. If they want independence, fine, it's theirs. But they have to take the responsibility for independence and the consequences of it, be they good or bad.
If the Scottish truly want to see their future they only need to look at what happened in Eire upon independence.
The ultranationalist Irish government refused to trade with the British Empire (the largest trading block in the world), and overnight Eire was bankrupted.
It only truly started recovering from that fiasco in the 1990s' (60 years later!), and then only with the help of the rest of the EU. When the financial collapse happened, Eire was hit very badly. They were 1st bailed out by the EU, and their 2nd bail out was by the UK (thus allowing Eire to avoid the strict controls the EU put upon other countries).
At the time of the UK loan to Eire, some very prominent Irish politicians even hinted that perhaps Eire should rejoin the Union, as it would be beneficial AND it would reunify Ireland.
And for Eire it would've been a good deal. They'd get free healthcare, better benefits, and more opportunities. Basically the rest of the UK would've picked up the tab.
The Scottish Nationalists want to have their cake and eat it.
My opinion is: if they go for independence (and I hope they don't), then that's it. They're independent come rain or shine. No bailing out by the rest of us.
19 - But why compare a 1930's Ireland ...with a 2014 Scotland. Ireland may have stopped trading with G.Britain at one point ... doesn't mean Scotland would today.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not comparable situation or historic era's. Plus, Ireland is GB's number 1 foreign trade market today.
@ 7 Clyde15
Feb 19th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Anything you buy from abroad is sold in the currency of the seller.”
Not always the case by any way of reckoning as it’s usually contractual for closed sales or as per the market with open sales.
Argentina, home currency Pesos, sells in the open market using US Dollars as does Uruguay, Brazil, and many more in LatAm.
Even international companies in the UK deal in dollars and only convert them for the local market.
So Scotland could always adopt the US Dollar, as long as the US approves.
@ 10 knarfw
“Many countries use the US$ without needing 'permission'.”
Strictly speaking this is not the case. Try using dollars illegally and against the interests of the US and see where that gets you.
@ 20 Vestige
Congratulations!
Finally a sensible post from you.
#14 Not seen to be respectable or serious politicians? Extremists? They have managed to do a respectable job of running Scotland so far. With higher employment and lower unemployment per capita than the rest of the UK. I am not their greatest fan but I have to concede that. Coming through a parliamentary system designed to stop them ever getting a an overall majority and getting it. Thats an outstanding political acheivement. Getting through over 80% of you manifesto commitments while in a minority government and not seeking any coalitions. Thats an outstanding political acheivement. Getting to within viewing distance of where their objective of independence is. thats an outstanding political achievement. The SNP, love them or hate them, they deserve respect. they are where they are by default. The Westminster parties are too arrogant and stupid to take them seriously until its too late and we are there now. Its recovery job at best by Westminster who started off with a big lead in the polls. The SNP are on the front foot. They have delivered a vision whether anyone agrees with it or not. Westminster has delivered nothing but threats the sky will fall on Scotland's head. You can only call the game a bogey for so long before someone calls your bluff and the SNP have. All the Scottish parties are in turmoil as it looks like Westminster took the currency decision without telling their Scottish parties. Westminster shows it has no respect for Scottish politicians regardless of party, people in Scotland turn away from Westminster parties = SNP gain. Scaredy Cameron and his gang are being played like fish. Yes the SNP are not serious politicians, they are very serious and as it stands, much more skillfull than anything at Westminster. Remember, they are playing to a Scots audience not a UK one. They look odds on to win as it stands. Westminster defeated at their own game, laughable! Why does England put up with it?
Feb 19th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Steuart, Why do you want Scotland to leave the UK? Why would you want the next generation of Scots to have to re-establish the country? It will be a long and very tough road, building a military, a coast guard, immigration, embassies, foreign relations etc etc etc and I would guess you'd probably lose about 30%of your GDP immediately until people figure out how everything works in the new country.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can't assume, or at least I wouldn't, that everything will just maintain itself while new rules, regs, customs, trade agreements etc are adopted.
I think it is very strange that something of this magnitude is even considered with so little facts being known.
To be honest Yankeeboy, I dont want to split the UK up. However, the political situation in the current UK means that if you dont live in SE England, you dont really matter. This needs to be reformed but the trough lickers at Westminster who will not vote for Xmas so we are stuck with or we can reform ourselves. This is essentially why we're in this situation. Scotland has always viewed itself a country within the UK. The problem we have is that when a Tory government is elected, they have reputation for trying to walk over or ignoring Scotland (and other parts of the UK outwith SE England - their heartland). We have our own legal code and already have control of most of the functions of government like health, education agriculture etc. The problem we have now is that the three main political parties have decided among themselves that Scotland cannot use the £ sterling even though it is a UK currency not an English, Scots or Northern Irish currency. This decision was taken without any vote or debate in parliament, basically a carve up of the Westminster parties. These parties are therefore being viewed as bullying Scotland as they refuse to discuss this in any way and also disrespecting their Scottish voters (this point is particularly important for the Labour Party). Do we accept this or do we call their bluff? The electorate in Scotland looks to be turning against the Westminster parties (we have a joke that Scotland has more giant panda's than conservative MP's) and the only default party is the Scottish National party hence they clean up. It is within the power of Westminster to resolve or at the least discuss this. However, they have refused to do so and it looks like as a consequence, the Yes for independence campaign is going to make real headway having come from a long behind in the polls. the real answer in my opinion is a federal UK but the trough lickers will not vote themselves out of a job. Hope that explains something.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've personnaly had Scottish bank notes refused at shops/pubs etc in both England and Wales, many times in the past. (and I know many other people who've had the same humiliating experiance)
Feb 19th, 2014 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why is that?
Way I see is right now we have a Scottish pound as opposed to 'pounds Sterling' At least that's the way people outside Scotland regard our bank notes.
I wonder what would be said if ever an English bank note was refuded in a Scottish shop/pub?
So you want to ruin a few generations of Scots because you are not respected by some Politicians?
Feb 19th, 2014 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That seems bonkers.
Scotalnd absolutely doesn't manage “Federal” policies, so you have to come up with a whole new structure, military, coast guard, trade, all new memberships in IMF, WB, UN, Etc etc etc. These are time, money consuming and necessary to your survival. Immediately upon leaving the UK you are 3rd world and you have to start all over.
It makes no sense. Blow up your whole way of life because “da Man ain't repsctin' me.”
Grow up.
In my opinion, if you are not part of the UK you shouldn't be able to use the Pound unless they want you to. You just a can't adopt someone's elses currency without their consent.
23
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ireland spends 902 million Euro's on defence.....similar size population to Scotland...
The UK spends 34 Billion and have plans of spending 159 Billion upgrade....
About 10% of that 34 Billion is included in the public spending for Scotland on a per capita division...
So at least 3 Billion.....
When was the last time Ireland was invaded...?
.....a long long time ago....and that would be by the English.....
When was the last time Scotland was invaded....1745.....and you guessed it....by the English....
It is no use you trying to grasp the Scottish/English relationship....
There is a cultural, political and economical divide between the two that has not diminished, but increased over the years...
The UK has always had London and the South's interest before anyone else....
The SNP will have only Scotland's interest before anyone else...
Like them or hate them who would you put faith in...if you lived in Scotland...?
Its a lot more than disrespectful. Its a bit like Washington DC saying to the rest of the US 'you yanks should keep your noses out of the US as it aint your business'. Im sure all the states of America would think they were being more than disrespected, more like abused. This problem always seems at its worst when we have Tory government in Westminster. Everything is a struggle with them unless you live in SE England.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 027. Territory is sovereign only if you can defend it.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you both are missing a very big point, let's leave $ out of the equation for now, you need to establish a coast guard, military and a State dept ect prior to becoming your own country. Unless you are going to pay the UK to do it for you.
Upon the dissolution, immediately all Scots should be expelled from the UK military and all “Federal” (what do you call this?) offices. Its not like they are going to expel a full coast guard crew, or a full embassy, you'll get a mis mash of people and the rest will have to be trained. This takes generations!
BTW I'd also send all the Scots currently working in the UK home. Either they become citizens of the UK or lose the ability to work.
All of a sudden you go from powerful to 3rd world and it will take GENERATIONS before you can recover, if ever.
@27 A_Voice
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The English didn't invade Scotland in 1745, the Scottish rebels invaded England in that year, then nearly a year later the British Army put down a rebellion by a bunch of traitors in Scotland - that was 1746. A least try to get your dates right.
Most of the fighting was done by Scottish regiments against the rebels. By the time the English regiments arrived (hot foot from fighting in Holland), it was all but over.
And the rebellion in 1745/6 was ALL about religion. The Protestant Scottish didn't want Catholics running the show. If you were Scottish you would know this. Why do you think Rangers wear Orange? Because they supported William of Orange against the Pretender 'Bonnie' Prince Charlie.
And 'Bonnie' Prince Charlie bravely ran away and left his men to be massacred.
In 1746 the punishment for treason was death, and that was regardless of which country in the world you came from. The rebels knew that if they lost they would die, just as the loyalists new that if the rebels won that they would die.
And the rebels could've won. William was in Holland fighting against the French. In 1745, 'Bonnie' Prince Charlie had all but made it to London. Win London and you've won the Crown. There was no serious resistance between him and London, most of the troops were abroad fighting in Europe. So what did the brave 'Bonnie' Prince Charlie do? He ran all the way back to Scotland.
And once in Scotland he faced an army of Scottish Protestants, who at the Battle of Culloden, defeated him.
Must be so awkward for you. Who do you support? The Scottish or the Scottish?
As for the SNP, they only have their own interests at heart, not the people of Scotlands. I think we all know what happens when people put their polictical ideals ahead of the welfare of the people and ahead of reality.
7 Clyde15 (#)
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I told you that this whole debate was down to latent anti English sentiment in Scotland you'd tell me I was talking rubbish.
I don't think this is anti English sentiment but you must understand that if an Englishman expresses his opinion that an independent Scottish government cannot dictate to the English how their monetary policy will be run post Scottish independence it has nothing what so ever to do with anti Scottish sentiment. I'm sorry Clyde how can you see it that way?
Anti SNP sentiment perhaps. Perhaps a little apathy, maybe even a little rejection if you like but not latent anti Scottish sentiment. Except perhaps from typical Daily Mail readers but you'll find some of those in Scotland too.
24 Steuart (#)
As much as I would like to agree with you I think that the SE England story is largely mythical. I say largely of course because there is an element of truth about it but don't over egg it. It is true that Somerset was under water for over a month before central government decided to act and they acted when the SE England started to submerge. So you're right in some cases but let me ask you this.
How much interest do you want the SE of England to take in Scottish affairs? Or Cumbrian or Worcestershire or Powys affairs? Too much and they are accused of interfering, too little and they are accused of not caring......... How much interest is just the right amount if interest? What do they have to do to make us happy?
29
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's pointless trying to explain any thing to you.....what part of ...they have already been responsible for 10% of the UK defence budget .....didn't you understand...
In other words they have already paid for 10% of the military....how many ships, tanks, guns, planes does that equate to...?
“Either they become citizens of the UK or lose the ability to work. ”
...they are citizens of the UK......
Again, Thicko, Scotland may be able to get 10% of the equipment, does that mean 1 fully equipped Cruiser? 10 helicopters but no spare parts? Who's going to fix them? Who are you going to buy the parts from? You may get a mish mash of stuff without parts and nobody to fix them. How many Jets? How many pilots?
Feb 19th, 2014 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you see where I am going?
Surely no embassies will be xferred, buildings, cars, people, etc etc
If Scotland pulls out of the UK they lose UK citizenship is that not the whole point?
Calling you Dimwitted is a compliment.
30
Feb 19th, 2014 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get to grips with history...
Royal Hanoverian troops deployed at the battle of Prestonpans September 1745...these included English regiments like the 13th Dragoons....
BTW ....they lasted and were thrashed and routed in about 15 minutes.....
What exactly do you mean by rebels...?
Still swallowing the English myth....
The Jacobites were the supporters of King James VII (of Scotland) and II (of England) and his heirs.
James VII and II ruled Britain from 1685 to 1689 but because he was a Roman Catholic he was replaced by his daughter Mary and her husband, the Dutch Prince William of Orange. Those who continued to support the exiled James (‘Jacobus’ being the name in Latin) became known as ‘Jacobites’.
They were not rebels, but supporters of the legitimate King of England and Scotland.
33
That's it you dumb Yank keep expressing your ignorance......
You might want to check out the current UK Borders Agency advice ...it states that British subjects who take on another nationality can keep their British passport as long as the second country allows dual nationality.
The more you say the more stupid you appear...
34. They should change that policy immediately. If you go, you go and don't look back.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would be shocked in a dual nationality person could serve in the military or Foreign Service. It makes no sense where do their loyalties lie?
What if UK goes to war against Scotland?
Makes no sense.
Revoke the passports immediately and make them leave.
24 Steuart over dover
Feb 19th, 2014 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the leaders of the major parties in the uk have expressed a view that Scotland will not be able to use the £ - do you think a vote in parliament will change this ?.
32 A_Voice
You keep telling us that Scotland owns 10% of everything in the uk - does this not mean that the uk owns 90% of the oil that Scotland is claiming ?.
36
Feb 19th, 2014 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have some strange logic.....
I say that Scotland has been responsible for a per capita share of the UK defence budget and you construe this as meaning Scotland owns 10% of everything in the UK.
You might want to stay off those dumb pills.....
As for the oil comment....WTF was that all about...??
Were they the Dumber pills..?
Furballs, are you seriously suggesting that not wanting to interfere is the reason for ignoring flooding in places like SW England and Yorkshire (this point was raised during Question Time last week in Scunthorpe)? Could that be the poorest excuse for inaction ever? No I think power should be devolved to allow the very different culture and societies of the UK express themselves and their own local priorities eg devolution for England or as we have known it here for nearly 40 years, the West Lothian Question.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#36 Bearing in mind the UK is being run by a coalition, perhaps when the electoral future of a number of those debating are being considered then I would hope at least those Scottish labour/Libdems might change their tune. Good opportunity for Labour to possibly force a no confidence vote? But is it not the done thing to properley debate matters of national importance? At the very least the facade of democracy would be served. But perhaps thats not the Westminster way?
Yankeeboy, sorry mate, but you should really study the proposition before commenting. The UK does not work like the USA at all.
@34 A_Voice
Feb 19th, 2014 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It isn't 'English' propaganda it's called the TRUTH, which I know you have trouble dealing with. Trying to romanticise them doesn't negate the fact that they were rebels. They were rebelling against their own King in order to put a pretender on the throne.
Also the Pretender was being backed by the French, with whom the British (that includes the Scottish) were at war, so they were giving aid to the enemy too. That definitely makes them traitors.
In fact, 'Bonnie' Prince Charlie arrived in Scotland with French troops, and during the battle of Culloden, the French fought a valiant rear guard that allowed most of the rebels to escape, after their 'brave' leader legged it to save his own skin.
Also King James II (VII) was forced to abdicate for betraying his country. The majority of the people (you remember the people don't you?) celebrated when James's daughter was offered the throne. They were fed up of the Catholics always trying to force their religion down their throats. Most of them remembered the reign of the last Catholic monarch. She wasn't called bloody Mary because she invented the drink you know.
As for Scottish independence, which is what the story is about. Well if they want it fine. They are entitled to 6% of everything (not 10%), and will have to take on 6% of the national debt too.
The details of independence will be hammered out should the Scottish vote for independence. But as I have said, what an independent Scotland wants and what an independent Scotland actually gets won't be the same at all.
21 - You're very welcome Chris, and Ill be sure to return the thanks on the day of your own first sensible post.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 039
Feb 19th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wriggle all you like but the TRUTH is James was King of England and was deposed by the English parliament in favour of William of Orange....
Replacing a catholic monarch with a protestant.....
FACT not myth.....
He wasn't a Pretender he was the real thing....
He wouldn't have needed French support if he wasn't wrongfully denied the crown...
You just love the English version of history instead of the factual one......
The excuses of replacing a legitimate King of Scotland and England with a Dutchman......then after that...a German.......
Not 6% the actual figure is 8.4%.....
@7 More Scottish lies. The Bank of England may have been “proposed” by a Scot but, three YEARS later, it was founded by an Englishman, Charles Montagu, 1st Earl of Halifax. Scots are like argies. They lie a lot!
Feb 19th, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder if you can understand this? 307 years +/- ago, Scotland desperately needed to join a Union with England. England even lent Scotland money and set up an exchange rate. One Scottish pound was worth one English shilling. The Scottish debt to England is now more than £2 quadrillion, based on the original loan plus a nominal 5% compound interest per annum for 307 years.
Going to default on that as well, are you? Just remember that a nation, according to international law, is entitled to go to war to recover monies owed to it.
Here are some other GOOD thoughts. What exactly does Scotland have that the UK needs? When the UK closes the Border, what can Scotland do? Except whine? If Scotland imports so much from the UK, who's in charge?
Has Scotland considered its export route when it is not permitted to travel through England, Wales, Northern Ireland and, possibly, the Republic of Ireland?
@10 Yeah. But Scotland isn't really interested in “the pound”. It wants the Bank of England to be the “lender of last resort”. Who picks up the final bill? Not the Bank of England!
@12 Accession of a new EU member requires the unanimous agreement of ALL existing members. And you want to believe BBC Radio Scotland? Brainless numpties.
@17 Really? I think watching Scottish ladyboys starve would be quite entertaining!
@20 Fool. Like the UK would trade with an EU non-member!
@22 Scotland can either stay or go. The English don't really care. Although Scotland may be surprised how little it gets.
@24 No-one in England really cares. Go if you want. We've tried to show you where your best interests lie. Whatever the result of your “vote” you will not be trusted for many years.
@32 Brainless. A colony might have some rights. Scots won't have ANY!
#29/35
Feb 19th, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes your sensible solution would certainly benefit all, on both sides of the border.
Key personnel would be expelled from jobs. How would this help the “English” economy. If this is the case then they should expel all NON UK/EU citizens or are the Scots a special case being persona non grata.
Who's going to fix them? The Scots do have some technical and engineering ability. They built the current type 45 destroyers, are building the current carriers have aero engine and repair facilities etc.
Also, 37% of the RAF's personnel are Scots - pilots , technicians etc. They are also integrated at high levels in the RN and Army.
If you pull them out then the UK forces are in big trouble.
You may also not realise that the UK forces have Fijians, Malawians, New. Zealanders ,Australians and other nationalities serving. They are not UK citizens. Neither are the Ghurkas.
If a child is born to UK parents while on holiday in the USA , he becomes an US citizen even though he holds an UK passport. I had a friend who was born in these conditions and received draft papers during the Vietnam war although he had only been in the US a few times visiting relatives !
So, study a bit more about the UK before you comment
#60
With hindsight, it is easy to comment on the Jacobites returning to Scotland.
The uprising of support by the English Jacobites did not materialise.
In addition, there was a government spy in the inner circle of advisors.
He made up a story of two armies coming to do battle with the Jacobite army.
The result of this battle would have been uncertain so the advice was to return to Scotland and entrench.
Lord George Murray had always advised the Prince to stay in Scotland and consolidate the gains but as a typical Stuart, he believed in the divine right of Kings and God would favour him..
what about the Anglo south east of Scotland? They are not Scots. Do thet get the option to re-join England?
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#44
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Explain ?????
44 Mendocino
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you mean
Lothian ((/ˈloʊ.ði.ən/; Scots: Lowden; Scottish Gaelic: Lodainn, archaic Gaelic Labhdaidh) is a traditional region of the Scottish Lowlands, lying between the southern shore of the Firth of Forth and the Lammermuir Hills. It includes Edinburgh City, West Lothian, Mid Lothian and East Lothian. The principal settlement is the Scottish capital, Edinburgh. Other towns include Livingston, Bathgate, Linlithgow and Dunbar.
Historically, the term Lothian is used for a province encompassing the present area plus the Scottish Borders region. The name is related to the legendary British King Loth or Lot. In the 7th century it came under the control of the Anglian Bernicia, the northern part of the later Kingdom of Northumbria, for a time, but the Anglian grip on Lothian was quickly weakened following the Battle of Dun Nechtain in which they were defeated by the Picts. Lothian's distinction from Northumbria is indicated in the survival of its original Brythonic Celtic name, used even by English Chroniclers. In 1018 AD Lothian was annexed by the Kingdom of Scotland
Roger of Wendover wrote that Edgar King of the English granted “Laudian” to the King of Scots in 973 on condition that he come to court whenever the English king, or his successors wore his crown. It is generally accepted by medieval historians that this marks the point at which Lothian came under Scottish control.
Are you saying this should be given back to England..
I've been very clear I don't have a clue on the specifics of this dissolution.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems to me, an impartial observer, that the Scots on this board are like a bitter whiny bi*tchy wife who wants a divorce and she wants to walk away with the house, the cars, no bills and a huge maintenance support.
I can't imagine London will concede.
So many countries have gone to war to preserve the union,
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What union, well, their union of course,
Unions that have brought their countrymen back into the fold,
Why then does this union want to split?
When so many are against us, we should stick together,
Like it or lump it,
But if you must go,
Please, don’t humiliate yourselves by leaving a great union,
For a European superstate,??
..
l've got a better idea- lol!
Feb 19th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0South-East England becomes independent, while the rest of us stay together!
Of course the new capital would have to be, erm……York? :-))))))))))))))
LEPRecon & A_Voice,
You are both correct with your history, actually.
lf it wasn't for religion none of these stupid wars would have happened, but we would have had a Stuart on the throne.
James II, seems to have quite a few flaws in his character, he deserted his lrish troops after the Boyne, also.
ln lrish history he is known as James caca(James the shit!).
l read that many of William's troops were German, Dutch & Danish.
English troops were considered too unreliable as their(Catholic)Officers had joined James & it was thought that the troops might switch sides to be with their officers.
Stupid organised religion has a lot to answer for & a lot of deaths to pay for.
Just MHO.
#47
Feb 19th, 2014 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your expertise on this subject is astounding !
50. Yeah yours too.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you all are acting like a bunch of whiny bitter old women.
If the Scottish want independence then so be it. In the modern world people should be given the choice.
Feb 20th, 2014 - 07:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0What worries me is the fact that the SNP have produce a 'fairy-tale' wish list, and avoid answering any questions about how they're going to fund this list. Just like whenever any other politician puts forward the reason they can't take for granted things like; having a currency union with the rest of the UK, or having automatic membership of the EU, NATO and the UN, or the fact that they probably won't get all of the North Sea Gas and Oil; they don't produce counter arguments they just dismiss it and claim it is an attack against the 'Scottish', and try and drum up national fervour.
I have worked with, and made friends with, many Scottish people during my former British Army career. Most of these people have already indicated to me that should Scotland become independent that they would remain with the rest of the UK. Not one of my friends who is still serving has said that they would join an independent Scottish Defence Force, they would stay with their current service.
The main problem with the SNP isn't the fact that they want independence, it's the fact that they want independence no matter the cost. So they 'twist' facts, obfuscate and avoid answering direct questions instead whipping up emotions in an anti-English fervour, in the hopes that in a Nationalist fugue the Scottish people will ignore just how they're going to fund it all, and vote for independence.
I've looked at their figures. There is NO way, even IF they got all the revenue from the North Sea AND they didn't have to take on their share of the national debt, that they could fund it all. They'd be bankrupt within 10-20 years. The reason? Not enough industry in Scotland, and a small taxable population. Not enough money coming in, spending like there's no tomorrow, is a recipe for poverty if not bankruptcy.
Once independent who will be to blame? Only yourselves.
LEPRecon
Feb 20th, 2014 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0You make some fair points and some unfair assumptions. Everybody here knows that independence will bring problems. But remaining in the union also has its problems. For example we are aware that Westminster plans a £4billion cut in the Scottish budget. From this we clearly will not be able to fund our current governance from within the UK. Westminster politicians are refusing to be drawn on this point. There is also issues surrounding social programmes such as the bedroom tax which I find abhorrant.
Industry, well it could be argued that Westminster stripped that from large parts of the UK not just Scotland and we are paying the price to this day. I note today Mr Osborne complaining that economic recovery is still fragile and said a reason for this is we do not produce or export enough. Interestingly, one policy I will credit the SNP is industrialisation, specifically renewable energy. I'll quote you a couple of figures: Scotland produces over 35% of its electricity from renewables, this is half the UK total. Scotland has an estimated 25% of Europe's renewable energy potential. A report two weeks ago from Aberdeen and Oxford Universities estimated that 50% of Scotland's electricity could be provided by a single turbine located in the Pentland Firth. Renewables are employing an estimated 12,000 people in Scotland and now seen as world leaders in the field. The SNP specifically encourages this kind of development. So credit to them, there is some substance to their policies.
Memberships, Well if Sadam Hussein can be a member of the UN why would they exclude Scotland? Scotland would achieve membership of the EU somehow. Problem is England could vote to leave in a couple of years time and if Scotland were still part of the UK we would have to leave too! NATO admits Macedonia but does not want Scotland who are currently members? Why not chuck us out now not needed? This shows the rest of the UK can be dominated by a large English electorate.
53. I hope Scotland isn't going to bet their economy on “renewable energy” productions.
Feb 20th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain did that and not they are bankrupt.
Your basing your Yes vote on hopes and dream not reality. I feel sorry for you. I hope the majority the Scots are not as stupid as you seem to be.
@53 Steuart
Feb 20th, 2014 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A £4 billion reduction is peanuts. It's nothing.
What about a £100 billion reduction? Or more? Would that affect Scotland more? Because if you become independent that is what you are risking.
The SNP are promising Jam. Jam tomorrow. Vote for us and we'll give you Jam. But it will always be Jam tomorrow, never Jam today, because they CANNOT pay for what they have promised to give the Scottish people.
Is that so hard for you to understand?
Scotland currently has a population of just over 6 million people. Of that 6 million, only about 4 million are of a taxable age. And out of that 4 million you have to factor in students, unemployed, disabled (unable to work), and low paid people. So that could leave you will a taxable population of about 3 million or less.
Then there's the outgoings. The NHS is a financial black hole. It swallows money like you wouldn't believe. In Scotland alone the NHS cost MORE than £10 billion a year.
Then there's the defence force. The UK, in 2012, spent £683 billion on defence. Can an independent Scotland (using A_Voice claim that Scotland will get 10% of the UK military) afford £68.3 billion a year on defence?
Then there are all those free University places. That's going to be another couple of billion per year. Then there's all the free child care places, and the free school meals, and an increase in benefits etc...
Then there's the wages and pensions of the civil service to think about too.
On the other side, people in Helensburgh would loose their jobs (no subs anymore), on the Clyde they go too (no more UK military ships being built there).
And all of it based on the assumption that the rest of the UK are just going to let you walk away without paying your share of the national debt and that you can have all the North Sea revenue.
It's completely unsustainable. It's a fairy tale. And Scotland will be bankrupt within a decade - two a most.
#25
Feb 20th, 2014 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have a listen to this - it is some light relief from the torrent of anti-Scottish rhetoric on here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaZlUrI7iBw
@56
Feb 20th, 2014 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“it is some relief from the torrent of anti-Scottish rhetoric on here”, thats probably the trouble, you see anti- scottish rhetoric, I see a senslble debate about to get going. Just because YOU don't like the truth. You are not an Argie are you?
Well, to be fair, if Mr salmon says he can do all these great things, then so be it, why would we call him a lie,
Feb 20th, 2014 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if the Scottish people, freely choose to tear this union apart, then who are we to say no,,
and if it all goes well, Scotland will make the rest of us look rather silly and childish, would they not,
most on here seem to agree one way or the other,
but what if ????
what if they go, and Mr salmon has it wrong, and Scotland does not rise to these great achievements created by the SNP,
what if they don't get what they all expected,
who then will the SNP blame, perhaps the British government,
we always get the blame,mmmm
but what if Mr salmons dream of an independent Scotland, turns into a member state of the unmighty EU,
what if his pound is swapped for the EURO,
what if the blue flag with a white cross, is replaced on all public buildings with a blue flag with gold stars on it,
what if on your birth cert, it says European citizen and not Scottish,
what if the Scottish , navy army and air force, turn into the European Army , navy and air force,,, who then will the lovely Scottish people blame,
or would not they really care,,
its all about WHAT IFFS,
and come September 2014, we will all find out , one way or the other,,
is it really worth falling out, now,
have a cuppa and relax, east enders is on for an whole hour tonight...
just a thought..
#57
Feb 20th, 2014 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The remark and video were for Escoses Doido as a bit of light relief from the bile being posted here.
I have covered this point ad nauseum with Voice.
No, I am not an Argentinian, I have never been to Argentina,I do not know any Argentinians but do not dislike them as a people. My only beef with them is the Falklands.
I was born in Argyll in 1942, moved to Glasgow aged 4, spent the next 25 years there with a few working trips to London and Birmingham. Was posted to Ayr in 1971 where I have remained to this day.
Father's side originally from Lochaber in the 19th century, and Mull from my mother's side. I presume even you can see that the odds are that I could be called Scottish !!
I don't mind the truth, however whose truth ? You have the only truth and wisdom on this forum ? Your “truth” could be no more than your opinion.
We all cherry pick the bits that suit us.
I object to the vindictive comments about Scotland and the people in general. The tenure of the “discussion” seems to assume that we are all backers of the SNP and if independence comes, then the general wish is that we should all be made to suffer with England trying to thwart anything positive in Scotland's favour.
In other words, putting the clock back to the 16th century.
You are not an Argie are you? Same question to you !!!
SUPPORT FOR SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE RISES AFTER LONDON WARNS ON POUND
Feb 20th, 2014 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/02/20/uk-scotland-independence-poll-idUKBREA1J00I20140220
PMSL.....Both myself and Steuart did warn you of the general mood of the Scottish people....Your threats and skyfall campaign are having the reverse effect...
The UK would be wise to point out the benefits of a union rather than try and bully a people have have existed on these Isles centuries before the Anglos invaded...
Anglo come lately's displaced the Gael and Brythonic tribes of the British Isles ...who are you to dictate conditions of Sovereignty....
Interesting comment I read....
Earlier this month, the UK Treasury declared that, following a period of intense and prolonged analysis of the economic numbers, each of us would be £1 a year worse off in an independent Scotland. Put another way, for £1 a year you will never have to endure the economic privations of a Conservative government ever again. You will not be penalised for being poor or old and nor will you suffer the pain of watching your young boys being killed in illegal wars or occupations.
England........German Lebensraum at it's best......you can take the man out of Germany but you can't take the German out of the man......
I dare say our little English friends will be scanning maps of Argentina to find 'El Lochaber' so they can accuse us of being Argentine.
Feb 21st, 2014 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can say I have been to Argentina and I really enjoyed my visit and found the people very friendly. I still dont support the Argentine governments position on the Falklands but I have no grudge against the many fine people I met. Like us Scots, they have a vibrant culture which speaks of the struggles they have faced. I would like to visit again one day.
As I said previously, the problem is that the rest of the UK does not get Scotland at all. We need to be punished when we dont fall in line. After 800 years, they have yet to learn we choose when we want to stand in line. Not standing in line may be a trait of others, but as a wise old lady from Sutherland once told me 'you'll get more with honey than vinegar'. The reaction in the polls was entirely predictable. There is no alternative, Labour are a burst flush having wasted their opportunity to be seen to be standing up for Scotland. I would have hoped some would have the backbone to stand up to Billican if necessary to save their party. But they prefer the company of the Blue and Yellow Tories. Their future is assured.
Scotland may or not be better off as independent country. No guesses as to what my hope is. But either way it will be a better place without the bitter little englanders who feel the 'Oldest Kingdom in Christendom' (according to the Declaration of Arbroath) should be punished. There is a story of how Edward 1 on his death bed asked his son, Edward 2 to boil the bones off his body after he was dead and carry them at the head of his armies until Scotland was crushed. We're still waiting.
61 Steuart over Dover
Feb 21st, 2014 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0keep on trolling - maybe someone will believe you are actually from Scotland and not just the other end of a pantomime horse.
59 Clyde15
Feb 21st, 2014 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was born in Argyll in 1942
you don't have to prove nuffink,
eye was born ??
im older than my teeth, and younger than my tongue
lolol
@61Steuart,
Feb 21st, 2014 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be so defensive mon,
l have a wide circle of English friends & not one of them want to “crush” Scotland.
Some of us are sick of the anti-English bs that occasionally slips out from Scots & of course Hollywood has a lot to answer for.
But, silly me, l thought that we were one happy family.
l know one thing, our enemies, especially the malvinista scum, are lapping this up.
Can we all tone it down a bit?
Peace, brothers & sisters.
At the end of the day it is David Bowie that is receiving sustained abuse for just saying “Scotland stay with us” and Farage that is being chased through Scottish streets by a mob demanding that he goes back to England.
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see Scottish people receiving the same treatment from the English. Galloway lives in England and has views many English people disagree with but no one chases him through the streets telling him to go back to Scotland.
SNP arrogance is astounding. Assuming there is a yes vote for independence they assume they have an I mediated mandate to surrender that by joining a currency union. They assume that they can enter that union despite the opposition of the existing members. Scotland SHOULD keep the pound all the other alternatives are poor by comparison but that does not give Scotland the right to demand the rest of the UK underwrites it in a currency union.
Grow up. Be Independent or be part of the Union, make a choice one way or the other.
Don't be so defensive mon,
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l have a wide circle of English friends
Im English, born London, decent Devon from 13th century,
and I take no interest in these ,,my dads bigger than your dad id,
utter crap,
as an amateur genealogist, im aware that this country is so intertwined,
that a lot of people will get hurt,
Mr salmon may yet regret his actions,
to go, is to go, but to try and humiliate on the way out is childish and very foolish,
the brits have been on these islands since before the Romans got here, and brits will still be here for the next 10,000 years, unless the EU has a say.
but to finish with, I leave one with an interesting thought,
and believe me, our enemies and the world will surely have a good laugh,
wondering what it feels like to be a FORIENGER in ones own British isles??
personally eye would stay,
mmmmmmmmmmmm
“the brits have been on these islands since before the Romans got here, and brits will still be here for the next 10,000 years, unless the EU has a say.”
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Correct Briton......
The Brits have.....it's the Anglo's that haven't....
The Saxon incursions began 600 Ad into Brittonic Dumnonia from Anglo Saxon Wessex your decent being 13th century....likely a Saxon.....
So tell me ....what is it like to be a foreigner....in the Briton Isles...?...;-))
very clever,
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0probably a Briton,
did not the romans push then west to wales , west into Devon Cornwall and across to Brittney,, and north to Scotland,
but I think 800 odd years makes me a brit,
were your family all scots going back centuries.
Not really Briton...the Romans weren't in the business of displacing people...just ruling them.....
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They ruled the Brythonic tribes.....
It was the Anglo Saxons that displaced the Britons to the Celtic Fringe.....or wiped them out.....
The legend of King Arthur is not an Anglo legend...he was a Briton that fought against the Anglo Saxons.....
The Anglo legend is Beowulf.....
@67 A_Voice,
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually, old chap, some Saxons were here long before that.
There were Saxon soldiers in the Roman Army, in Britain from at least 100AD, when the Romans began recruiting Germanic peoples into their Armies.
And as the Celts arrived in about 500 BC,(& found a people already here)unless you are purely descended from the pre-Celtic peoples, then you are a foreigner too.
But don't let the truth stand in the way of a good story, eh A_Voice.?
Your comments about the Angles(l know you said Anglos?)is ridiculous & you know it.
Very few people in the British lsles would be pure Angle, Saxon, Celt or what have you.
We have been mixing since 1066, not counting the immigrants since then.
Jews & Flemings in the Middle Ages, lrish & Russians in the 19th century,
And of course the present immigration since WWII.
So where do you get off, sr A_Voice?
Just trying to make Briton look silly & uneducated?
l'll tell you something for free.
Briton makes a lot more sense than you do.
You are of course aware that the surname salmon,
Feb 22nd, 2014 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is of ,
early medieval English origin, and derives from the Middle English and Old French given name “Salmon” or “Saumon”, a contracted form of Salomon. The ultimate origin of the personal name is from the Hebrew male given name “Shelomo”, a derivative of ”shalom
they say, everyone should be able to spell their surname at least 3 different ways..
I understand that Salmond is waiting until the celebration of Banockburn When Robert the Bruce thrashed the English. I have a question about that, where were his male ancestors in that time? as Salmond is an Anglo Saxon name. Anglo Saxons were mostly in the South of England then we had the Welsh, then Mercia, then Northumbria, then Scotland. If he wants to go back that far in his celebrations so can we. Or even further; Maybe his ancestors were on the losing side with King Edward?
Alex Salmond ancestry revealed
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/284861/Alex-Salmond-ancestry-revealed-back-to-days-of-independent-Scotland
As an amateur genealogist I thought you might be interested in his past..
It was the Anglo Saxons that displaced the Britons
But did they not land in Scotland, and thus displaced many scots.
...
The majority of the men and women in the UK hav mixed ancestry. We're very much intertwined.
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Northern England has more in common with Scotland then it does the South.
This concept of an English/Scottish divide is really quite an over exaggeration by our resident Agentines parading as native Brits.
I for one am of mixed ancestry with an English mother and a Scottish ancestry on by birth and my father's blood line.
My family in Scotland wish the union to stand and no all nations within the Uk contribute significantly to one another.
My Mother's family wish Scotland to stay and have a great love of both the highland culture and the great contributions Scotland brings to the nation.
Come September the majority of eligible scottish voters will wish to stay in a union and rightly so. Scotland is a big part of the UK, they always have and always will be. God love Scotland, God love England, God love Wales, God love Norhern Island, and God love the United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Northern Island.
God love the Falkland Islanders too :)
Cue Argentine divisionary tactics ;)
#70
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0As you say, we are ALL mongrels and the better for it. Purity of race gave us Hitler and the Nazis. Is that something to emulate ?
The whole world is mixed, l think, Clyde15.
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gives us a bigger gene pool.
70
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isolde....I am aware of the opinion that Angles from the Roman army had settled in East Anglia and I don't dispute this as it explains the subsequent contention between the newly arrived Anglian kingdom of Deira and Bernicia.
...but they weren't part of the Anglian invasion and displacement of the Britons...
I am not trying to make Briton look silly or uneducated..in fact he has previously mentioned the Bernician's conquest of Lothion and Edwinburgh...we were chatting..
71
Briton....you got me there that Salmond could be a mongrel alrighty he only goes back 300 years....
I occasionally visit a certain graveyard and in this graveyard I wander about and loot at the stones of my ancestors.....I know them, their names are clear...the dates go back 500 years. After that the stones are too worn to be legible, but I can, and have traced them back a Thousand years....they never moved more than 30 miles....
One day I will join them,,,,
I know who I am....or was....but before that...who knows...a decedent of Adam is my best guess....
75 A_Voice
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0can you answer, are you Scottish?
@ 40 Vestige
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Ill (SIC) be sure to return the thanks on the day of your own first sensible post.”
Well that’s a lie right there! I ALWAYS make sensible posts and you haven’t thanked me for any of them.
Ha, ha, ha.
@ 76 Troy Tempest
He could answer but he won’t.
A_Voice is clearly Lunatic’s little puppet.
“He” needs to add an “M” to the front of the word that he thinks he is descended from!
Arghhhh!.....shut it.....
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm the Voice.....that's all the identity I need......
Here's my tune.....watch out at 2.53.....;-)))
Appropriate or what?
...I got all that kit in three different tartans...spats, regimental sporran, kilt, plaid though I have a feather bonnet instead of the glengarry....two of the tartans are Bruce and Cameron...and another one...a very very ancient one.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m2m_9Uijso
We have the chance to turn the pages over
We can write what we want to write
We gotta make ends meet, before we get much older
We're all someone's daughter
We're all someone's son
How long can we look at each other
Down the barrel of a gun?
You're the Voice, try and understand it
Make the noise and make it clear, oh, woah
We're not gonna sit in silence
We're not gonna live with fear, oh, woah
Yupp,
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a narcissist!!
“Look at me, look at me !!
I am very clever - more clever than you.
I know you want to be my friend, but I won't let you.
I'm not going to tell you who I am really, that's for me to know and you to find out - you are not worthy!”
“Oops, where did you all go?
Ok, ok, I'll tell you some funny stories to keep you interested.
Watch me dress up in costume, too!
...and sing you a song or two.
Do you want to be my friend now,do ya, huh, do ya??
Well you can't, because I'm better than you...
Blah blah blah... ”
and on and on - what an attention seeking faerie.
70 lsolde
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks .
72 JollyGoodFun
Agreed, I do honestly believe Scotland will stay loyal to the union..
75 A_Voice
Thanks for the reply,
I think Scotland will stay loyal to the union,
And all this rhetoric anti -anti will die away,
What ever the outcome we will all have to live with the decision,
As for me, I have a better interest in getting out the Euro loony bin.
thanks chaps..
Wow ...you are a jealous one.....
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0people do really listen to you, you know......
ooppps...nah they don't....ya just a Brit wannabe troll of many.....
I know you want to belong....but your names's not down....Canadian....;-))
It's not up to you, A_migo, sorry!! :-)
Feb 23rd, 2014 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, Scottish, are you ???
No answer? A_voidance, again??
I wonder why??
Sorry, Think, you have no credibility, ergo no relevance to your comments.
Ho ho ho, er, I mean... Ja ja ja !!!
“Laffink” at you!
#82
Feb 24th, 2014 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Enigma. I cannot make up my mind on this. He certainly has a wide knowledge of the area which is also current and would be difficult to acquire if you did not live there. However, I had a visit to Benmore Gardens, close to Dunoon, for members day about 10 days ago..
There were about 30 of us there mainly from the Holy Loch area in ages from 25 to over 80. From the information he has supplied about himself, I asked several people if they knew him. It rang no bells with anyone.
So.I am none the wiser !
Thanks Clyde.
Feb 24th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dame Dover had much similar knowledge, a claimed Scottish heritage, a Scottish bias, very good English, and yet, he was a Think puppet.
We already know that he is devoting a lot of time to google to create scenarios - his fake Pennsylvania story and Dunoon in much detail, but was he not rumbled on that one?
83
Feb 24th, 2014 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you make me doubt your credibility.....is this a trick or what...?
I have just come back from Benmore gardens checking out your story...
The gardens are not open till the 1st of march the sign says.....
The cafe says open 10am till 4pm wed to sun...but it doesn't look like it's been open recently, there is a large green planter blocking the pathway, there is a white cupboard blocking the door....no plants for sale in the outside shop and eating area and the two outside dining tables are sans the large umbrellas that cover them.
The place looked deserted....
I checked the website and the first members AGM is not until thurs 17 april....
Maybe I should call Peter and ask him if anything has been happening lately...what do you think...or his wife that makes jewellery I see her now and then.....
Were you telling porkies Mr Clyde....
If you went over there did you get caught at the temporary traffic lights on the shore road at Hafton for the repairs to the sea wall...you would have to pass them...?
84
Ha ha Troll Tempest you won't see that on Google....
“Earlier this month, the UK Treasury declared that, following a period of intense and prolonged analysis of the economic numbers, each of us would be £1 a year worse off in an independent Scotland. Put another way, for £1 a year you will never have to endure the economic privations of a Conservative government ever again. You will not be penalised for being poor or old and nor will you suffer the pain of watching your young boys being killed in illegal wars or occupations”.
Feb 24th, 2014 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is hilarious....
the “illegal wars” taken by a Scottish Prime Minister, backed by a Scottish Chancellor and a Scottish Director of Communications???? All voted for by the vast vast majority of Scottish people and not the majority of English people??
Interesting.
Or indeed, “you will not be penalised for being poor or old”, just bankrupted by Scottish Socialism by borrowing money you can't repay causing the largest recession since the 1920s.
Even more interesting...LOL
Who is to say Cameron isn't playing a fantastic double bluff...perhaps he wants rid off the 50 non-Tories from Westminster...without whom hed not be in this ludicrous coalition....but have an overall Tory majority.
Either way, the “illegal” Iraq war was a Scottish invention....ask Alastair Campbell...
Campbell...hmmmmmm..LOL
Any Scottish MP's in the UK Parliament are voted in by the majority of the UK....Scotland has a tiny minority in the UK Parliament blame the English for their choices....
Feb 24th, 2014 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is fairly clear to everyone that you are anti-Scottish...a racist in fact.....
Which is surprising considering your own situation....
Troll on...your remarks are irrelevant....
85 A_migo
Feb 24th, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Ha ha Troll Tempest you won't see that on Google.... ”
I'm not saying you haven't lived there, or do live somewhere in Scotland, but you can concoct a lot of stories using google and Streetviews etc.
So, are you actually Scottish ??
88
Feb 24th, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No stories......just facts....
....for this area the last google update was 2010....most certainly not including temporary traffic lights for sea wall repairs at the given location...
Can't wait for Clyde's wriggling out of his mis-information....
He knows fine well I know the curator of Benmore Gardens personally...where he lives etc....silly to try and trick me.....
I don't think that Mr Think or Dover have ever been able to give such minute and current details of this or any particular details of Scotland....if they could then surely they would have, in the past....
Mr Think may well have been fishing in the Salmon rivers much further North...must have cost him a few quid as they are all very private...would be poaching otherwise....
A-hole
Feb 24th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly it is you who are the racist. You claimed England dragged you into an illegal war, killing your sons, brothers blah blah blah blah.
I pointed out that the three most powerful people in government at the time were Scottish.
Apparently however, according to you...it is the English fault because they voted for them.
Although of course over 50% of Scots voted for them...and less than 50% of English.
However, you illustrate a great point.
In your racist eyes it's always “England's fault”.
It couldn't be the Scot Tony Blair, or the Scot Gordon Brown or the Scot Alastair Campbell...it must be the English people who voted for them (but not the Scots)
Fucking hilarious...as if any more evidence was needed.
I hope you get Independence A-Hole, and then when you fuck it up...which you will...how it's all England's fault again...PMSL.
Not racist A-hole (you and I both no there are sufficient sensible Scots who won't touch Independence with a 20ft barge pole), what I am is anti-racists like you....FREEEEDOM...lest we forget and all that shite you spew.
Go and have a wank over Braveheart...it's all you are good for.
Gentle men,, ,gentlemen,
Feb 24th, 2014 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Their are FACTS and their are Conspiracy Chinese whispers,
We will never get to the truth of the conspiracy theories, or the whispers,
But what is a fact is this,
Their is no English government, there has not been an English government for over 300 years, so one can shout and scream and whatever, but the fact remains, [ legally]
The British government makes,
And takes all decisions whenever you like it or not,
But just for the record,
And this is a conspiracy theory
,,,,,,,,
We think Mr Cameron has been got at,
Deliberately ruined our military, so a European military can thrive,
No agreements will be repatriated to the UK,
He knows it, you know it , eye know it , they know it, and the bloody world knows it,
He is just playing for time, hoping, praying that a promise of a referendum will get them back in,
He has been told by everyone that this will not wash,
But he still insists, why ??
Only explanation, he has been got at,
UKIP for our freedom, or the cons for indoctrination,
Just an indoctrinated thought..
In these Scottish debates you have shown clearly to everyone, just how stupid you are....
Feb 24th, 2014 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So tell how many voters in the 50% Scottish electorate....?
...how many voters in the 50% English electorate....?
So...idiot who put these people in their position of power...?
That's right stupid monkey...the English....
You keep coming back for more...and with every post to Steuart or Clyde display your ignorance.....
Why bother we always knew you were stupid......
Vote UkIP get Milliband.....(unless Scots get independence)
Feb 24th, 2014 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then it's Vote UKIP get Milliband for 10 months and then some ghastly rainbow Alliance of Milliband plus Libdems plus Ulster Unionists or Cameron plus Ulster Unionists.
Either way..you never get Farage.
#89
Feb 24th, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not trying to trick you. You have tricked yourself. I have told it as I found it. Peter Baxter was not there. He was on holiday. The meeting was on 13th February at 11am. Neil took the group round the garden and showed us the plans for the shelter in the Chilean glade. We came down from the viewpoint via the fernery, and passed Benmore house where the kids had returned from their adventuring.
We had our soup and sandwiches in the gallery and the afternoon talk was on the Gardens of N.Ireland.
Using the information YOU supplied about yourself, I asked some of the locals if they new anyone fitting the description. The answer was no.
Your description of yourself....
6'2” 16 stone weight train 4 times a week, plays the pipes, likes motor bikes, has a 4x4, lives at the loch side, has property in USA and Bute, not British.
I left out a few endearing traits.
Please DO call Peter Baxter to check my story and post his reply on here.!!
I can feel your red face already.
Ask him if he remembers getting a Primula Scotica from a member of the Scottish Rock Garden Club in Ayr some years back.. He gave us a talk at our local branch and said he was interested in the plant. So, on our next visit, I brought him one I grew from seed. I do not know him well, but we always have a talk when we meet in the gardens. I like rhododendrons and he prefers trees.
Yes, we got held up about halfway along Marine Parade by the road works where parts of the sea wall had collapsed. We stopped at the shop in Sandbank run by the Asians, to get our return ferry tickets.
After the talk, we went round to Blairmore to Gallimaufry only to find it was closed until March.
Near Kilmun pier, we passed a couple with a Wolfhound. The man had a black eyepatch and the woman was wearing a long green waterproof coat.
It made me wonder ???
Caught the 1600 ferry, stopped at Cardwell Nursery for a coffee.
I would not have revealed your name or address if I had been told it, only your nationality
94
Feb 24th, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ha ha ...I have not tricked myself Clyde have I...?
You have just verified about the temporary traffic lights......
So what was with the cafe being shut and deserted...when it says open Wed till Sun...it can't have been open with the path blocked and the cupboard in front of the door to the gift area before the cafe area....?
...what endearing traits...?
BTW it's 15 and a half stone....Fortunate that Peter wasn't there with that description....I might have been rumbled.....;-)))
...where you got your tickets....if it was the young guy with the beard...that was Amrik..if it was a smaller guy...that was his father Lash....;-))
Hey you shouldn't reveal anything about me.....I could probably trace you in a jiffy...but have never dreamed of it...all the info you have given....census from the dates born and area etc...
....I can already place two people on here...but never do....wouldn't dream of it...
.....don't be a mean Spoiler of Fun.....I stick up for you a lot....
(89) A_Voice
Feb 24th, 2014 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Mr Think may well have been fishing in the Salmon rivers much further North...must have cost him a few quid as they are all very private...”
I say...:
Very private indeed...
Too private... And in Sassenach hands the best of them...
I have though fished some good waters in Scotland…. mostly thanks to the generosity (and reciprocity) of some of the Anglo acquaintances I have assisted in my Patagonian neck of the woods...
PS:
I would never pay ~200£ for a day of fishing...NEVER... I would rather poach (On a Sunday! ;-)))
96 Think
Feb 24th, 2014 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...that's the local way alright....
...always know where everybody is...or rather where they are not...;-))
I'm not a keen fisherman...but then again, I don't need a rod....Opps.....Shushhh!
97 A_Voice
Feb 24th, 2014 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Impressive show of local knowledge....
“The young guy with the beard...that was Amrik”...
One could be tempted to “Think” that you actually live in Scotland :-)))
Wonder why nobody ever asks me any questions about south western Chubut like :
Did you see the puma tracks on the river bank yesterday...?
Or
Did you see them three Chilean rustlers on the mountain crest last week...?
#95
Feb 24th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Basically you keep inferring that I am a liar........one of your endearing traits.
The gardens are not open to the PUBLIC until 1 March.
However, there are two other ways you can get in.
The cafe is open a few days in the week...I can't remember when..... until it opens fully in March.
The cafe was opened from 10-4 on the 13th for general business but we did not go in.
The lunch supplied by the good ladies was mulligatawny, parsnip, and scotch broth soup with sandwiches...prawn, tuna , ham, egg, cheese and salad.
During the talk, I sat beside Neil, Peter's assistant in the Botanics.
You can check that out also. The only Rhododendron we could see in flower was Rh. daurica although oreodoxa will be in flower by now.
You can also tell Peter that we did our shuffle on the blue mat.
As I said , have a word with Peter Baxter and see what he says. You don't have to believe me...as it seems you never do !
@ 99 Clyde15
Feb 24th, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don’t worry Clyde15, we ALL know who the lying, Walter Mitty, character is here and it’s not you.
99 Clyde
Feb 24th, 2014 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clyde,
How is it that you and Think, er sorry, A_Void, talk about the same people and the same place, and yet, your account is detailed, intimate, and sincere, whereas, A_void comes as across as not really connected, and well, a bit “squirmy”, know what I mean?
There is no reason to think you are lying, Clyde, but AvoiceofThinkedover appears to be realise he is being painted into a corner with his details.
You are quite correct, A_Void did very definitely say he was “16 1/2 stone and worked out at the gym every, juggled Englishmen over his head” etc.
Gawd knows why he chooses to lie about his statement just 2 months ago in his, “endearing qualities ” thread, where he threatens to “buy a coffee” for anyone who meets him at an unspecific Glasgow Starbucks, instigates “Road Rage” incidents so he can terrorise other motorists, yadda yadda yadda...
However, although your intuition may have told you that the colourful ”Olde Blind Pew (Pugh?)“ character and wife, were likely our man, it is more likely that the wife or 'unhappy companion' would be wearing the eyepatch, to hide another shiner.
Clyde, rather than asking the locals who fits A_void's description of himself, ask the local constabulary about their most colourful arrestees for repeated Domestic Abuse incidents.
I ”Think” you'll have more luck.
Could explain why, A_Voice talks big, but very obviously never travels outside the UK.
99
Feb 24th, 2014 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah well you shouldn't start casting Nasturtiums @83...I'm going to call there on Wednesday to see if the cafe has been open....I hope you were right...
101
No one believes your lies when they are so easily disproved.....
You said....
“You are quite correct, A_Void did very definitely say he was “16 1/2 stone and worked out at the gym every, juggled Englishmen over his head” etc. ”
,,,,,are you sure...?
Look at this....
”56
Little mate...I'm 6-2 and 15½ stone....;-)”
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/10/23/german-catholics-can-only-remain-in-the-church-if-they-pay-membership-tax-rules-court#comment282880
Ha bloody ha how detailed can you get when I name the two people in the local shop that he bought his tickets from...?
Note how he doesn't mention it...;-)))
...and the current temp traffic lights...that he got caught at.....PMSL
What does it feel like to be consistently wrong all the time...?
You must really feel stupid.....
@Steuart
Feb 25th, 2014 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly I rather resent the tone of your comments about the South East of England. I grew up in the SE and I am fed up with people talking about it in a negative light. In the end it is a part of the country that happens to have the capital in it, a capital that is also one of the most major economic trading centres on the planet. Lets say are capital was in Edinburgh, would I then have the right to say negative things about Scottish elites imposing their will on the down trodden south....oh hang on they can! Scottish MP's can and have voted on matters that ONLY affect the English and Welsh including imposing tuitions fees. How about we have a block of English and Welsh voters in the Scottish parliament to balance things out a bit...of course there would be howls of protest north of the border. FACT IS Scottish people are represented currently in our national parliament, there are Scottish Cabinet ministers and we recently has a Scottish Prime Minister two if you include Scottish born Blair. That our national parliament is in the SE is a historical and geographic legacy not some form of intended oppression of the Scottish as it is constantly portrayed.
Secondly go to Dover, go to Hastings and then tell me all economic policy favours the SE! There is extreme poverty in the SE just like in other parts of the country. How about we talk to the workers in Portsmouth who are losing their jobs to prop up a Scottish ship yard.
You want independence....FINE! But stop demanding things, 58% of the population South of the border don't want Scotland to have the pound. If Scotland go independent who do you think the politicians South of the border will listen to?
#102
Feb 25th, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you hope that I am right ? I would have thought that it would vindicate you if I was wrong.
I fail to see how visiting the cafe proves anything. All I can say is that it was open on the 13th between 1000-1600 and is open for business a few days in February. .....probably at the weekend. If I remember correctly it is not run by the RBGE, but by an independent firm?
If open, ask them if they were open on Thursday 13th Feb.
Anyway, that is incidental in confirming that there was the annual garden meeting of the Friends of Benmore which you are disputing..
As to the names of the Asian shopkeepers,I wouldn't know as my conversation is limited to a return ferry ticket for car/driver and passenger and handing over the money £16.80 +£4.80.
In one of your posts last year prior to the one you quote above, you were saying something like Scots were dwarves/dwarfs and said that you were 6'2“ and 16 stones and trained 4 times a week in a gym. This is from memory.
I WAS surprised when I drew a blank in asking if anyone knew of a person fitting this description living in the area. I am not saying you don't but I cannot understand your ”secret squirrel ” attitude.
Was that you with the wolfhound OR deerhound . The physical description was a close tally but I was looking in my rear view mirror at Kilmun pier as I passed.
If you do go into the cafe at Benmore, their coffee is fine but the scones are rather dry.
#98
Think. With the best will in the world,who here could either prove or disprove a sighting of rustlers..why am I not surprised you identify them as Chilean...why not Falklanders....or puma tracks. These are transitory sightings.
104
Feb 25th, 2014 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Couple of things there Clyde....the cafe is independent....I remember when Peter's wife took over the cafe from Byers quite a few years ago....that's right... something verifiable next time you see him.....
Also next time you call for tickets...say Hi Amrik or if it's his father, Lash...see if I'm right...
I'm stumped on the Wolfhound or Deerhound....there are two Deerhounds that stay near the church at Strone, but the only person around these parts that has a permanent eye patch is old man Gibson from Gibsons Electrical shop on Argyll Street...can't imagine he would be over there.....he's Dunoon...
The link to my height and weight is @102....no need to rely on memory...the gym bit is correct, I do fluctuate on weight, but always under 16 stone....
The coffee is fair trade coffee....nasty....
#103 Fedaykin
Feb 25th, 2014 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are wonderful things about the SE England and I acknowledge the existence of poverty amid great wealth. I have visited. However, when it comes to resources, they are always at the front of the queue. The list is endless, HS2, The Olympics (great for the UK unless you live outside London and rely on tourism for an income), SW England under flood for a month, then it hits the SE and the government will pay whatever it takes to save the place. Years ago they put an additional lane on the M25. It cost more than the entire road budget for Scotland. If the capital was indeed Edinburgh, I personally would like to see a greater distribution of the benefits over the whole UK rather than increasingly in one small area. This was proven when even during recession, the economy was still increasing and other parts of the country, not just parts of Scotland were still in recession. I read this week that house prices in London rose 12% in the past year yet in other parts they have not risen at all. The answer build more houses in the SE? What about acknowledging the rest of the country should also benefit. Truth is, every Westminster government knows that if you can keep house prices in the SE on the up and people in work, you will have secured a large proportion of a third of the votes in the UK. Funnily enough, its the tories who have benefitted most from this ploy over the years. Scottish MP's who vote on English only issues in parliament are either Tory, Labour or Libdems. They vote as they are told by the Westminster parties, not Scottish parties or risk explusion from their parties (withdrawl of the whip). To solve this, my own opinion is an English parliament, ideally based 'up nowff' to balance power in England, create jobs in other parts of England, make other parts of England feel part of the UK and solve the problem you have mentioned. It might also bring down house prices in SE England. If you lived in the SE, would you vote for this?
#103
Feb 25th, 2014 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How about we we talk to the workers in Portsmouth who are losing their jobs to“ prop up a Scottish ship yard”.
I can see your point in this and it is a tragic event for the people involved, however, there were almost as many redundancies on the Clyde although the workforce was larger.,
What would you have said if How about we talk to the workers on the Clyde who are losing their jobs to prop up an English ship yard.“ if it had gone the other way?
Your use of the pejorative term ”prop” would indicate that you think the yards on the Clyde were not up to the job but it was a political decision to placate the Scots. For your information, there are many English workers in the yards.
Skilled workers are recruited from all the UK.
The chairman of Bae has publicly stated that the decision to stop shipbuilding on
the South coast was taken over two years ago and had NOTHING to do with any Scottish independence issue. The Clyde is their preferred choice.
When the ships go for sea trials, they use the Firth of Clyde and the measured mile speed trials off Arran. Any problems and they are back in the yard almost immediately. If they are built on the south coast they would probably have to come to the Clyde for sea trials. If a breakdown occurred then they would have to be towed some 600 miles to the S.coast. for repair...not very efficient.
Bae also announced a major expansion program at Scotstoun. http://www.shippingtimes.co.uk/item_10686.html
@Clyde15
Feb 25th, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The chairman of Bae has publicly stated that the decision to stop shipbuilding on the South coast was taken over two years ago and had NOTHING to do with any Scottish independence issue. The Clyde is their preferred choice.”
Really, not political...pull the other one! The Head of BAE was being careful with his words.
You saying they can't do sea trials off the South coast...ROFL!
#108
Feb 25th, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You will believe what you want to believe. ROLF ? Meaningless to me.
I only deal with the English language.not predictive text. You are allowed 2000 characters on here . Are you too lazy to use them ?
You infer that it would be OK and preferable to close the Clyde yards. That is not a SE bias ? The chairman of Bae is a liar. Explain that one !
Just my opinion but,
Feb 25th, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BAE, is interested in its self and profits only,
If you are in that business then great, but if you are at the receiving end, not so great,
I think the British government could say and should say to BAE , no Portsmouth, no money,
Too many shipbuilding yards have closed over the decades, for what ever reason a government can give,
But they say, we were uncompetitive, to expensive, antiquated equipment , and out of touch,
The government should have , and still should invest in our shipyards and make sure they are up to date , ultra modern , use the very latest hi-tech equipment , and robotics’ , and to make sure we are very competitive in the world of ship building,
Norway has many many yards, all open, all working,
So incompetence, greed, and lack of government interest springs to mind,
Eye thinks the UK could and should have at the very least 4, up to date modern yards,
Scotland and England should keep their yards, but of course we all know it money, and government no interest that shuts yards,
The government should be building ships right now, and the yards should be tendering other countries for work,
We can do it, regardless of what the government experts say,
We just have no interest; the governments in the last 30 odd years just close everything,
And drive others abroad,
More orders please Mr Cameron, and no excuses,
After all , [ IT only takes money]
And you give billions to others rather than investing here..
Just my building opinion...
#108
Feb 26th, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0OK my last para. was written in a moment of pique. I have seen warships on sea trials from Lyme Bay and from Rame Head in Cornwall.
I still say the Clyde is a better area for ship trials....personal view.
Still, your preference would be for the Scottish yards to close instead of Portsmouth. Take independence out of the argument. Do you still hold this view ?
And you say that YOU are unbiased whereas we , in Scotland ARE biased.
Of course we are both biased to the interests of our respective areas.
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