MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Malvinas negotiations will take place 'sooner than later' forecasts Cristina Fernandez
“Sooner than later” Argentina will be able to discuss with the UK “the Malvinas Islands sovereignty issue” as indicated by the UN resolutions, said Argentine president Cristina Fernandez during her speech to the General Assembly opening the 132th legislative period last Saturday, March first. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesDream on, lady! There is no legal requirement for Britain to negotiate something that is not negotiable without the approval of the people of the Falklands/Malvinas.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your words are nothing more than political gestures!
Good luck on that one
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Negotiations could have taken place last February but Timerman refused to show up. Not that they would have resulted in a transfer of sovereignty since the offer of absolutely nothing may not convince that many FIs. I suspect that Argentina may need to consider a new tactic.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe her point about the unemployed youth is code for “we have completely and utterly failed but we might be luckier with the next generation”. Though her idea that the currently unemployed youth will grow up to work in the Foreign Office may make sense in the land of la Campora but strikes me as unlikely over here.
Sure they will. But since the 'Malvinas' are non-existent, one wonders whom they are going to negotiate with?
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pigs might fly
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0My prediction is that there will be no negotiations on the Falkland Islands sovereignty. In a few years I also predict that this woman will either be dead or be the subject of an internationa arrest warrant for embezzlement.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder who's prediction will come true?
No threat to the falkands or uk
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing of value to to the uk
What exactly is argentina bringing to the negotiations 150 years of whining?
“Malvinas negotiations will take place 'sooner than later' forecasts Cristina Fernandez”
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Since words are all she has got in regard to the Falklands, she would say that wouldnt she?
If Argentina is a “region of peace” what's the sabre-rattling and rearming about?
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Public acknowledgement that her policies have utterly failed.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bet that must've hurt.
What is it with Lat Am leaders and 3 hour speeches? Is it some form of affliction? Is it contaigous?
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0And still failed to mention Inflation and Insecurity (crime-levels)!!
So they're expecting negotiations Real Soon Now?
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0As someone who follows these things, people have been saying that we'll have nuclear fusion power stations Real Soon Now since the 1960s. The current estimate for having one working and generating power if everything goes to plan (and generally dealing with nuclear reactors even the slightest deviation from the exact letter of the plan is enough to cause significant delays) is 2033 at the earliest.
Frankly I'd imagine that of the two, nuclear fusion is the one more likely to happen first.
Has she found another tree to fall out of? Utter clap trap for the peronista masses.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I checked with my friendly MLA, and apparently we have had not received any request for discussions. So “sooner” might be a relative term.....maybe sometime after the next Argentine election ? Or two generations after the Argies cease their childish and vindictive campaign against Falkland Islanders ? Or when the pigs are successfully flying ?
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure we all look forward to receiving your letter.
Where, oh where, have all the trolls gone?
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0(Sung to the tune “Where have all the flowers gone?”)
Ha, ha, ha, deluded bitch.
She had to be reminded to mention the Falklands? LOL! I think we can confirm she has privately admitted defeat.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I had to go Congresso early that morning when she spoke.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Miles and miles of buses parked around the city bringing the lousy Kamporistas into the city.
1000's of people there waving flags and handing out T shirts to wear.
Not 1 of them had a full set of teeth.
Glad to get out of there,,,,uuugh
This is her voting block ignorant and always will be poor lazy peasants looking for a free hand out.
She will be pushing up the daisies before Argentina gets anywhere on that score! Looking at the economies I'd suggest they put the Falklands government in charge of bringing Argentina under control.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, yes, Cristina,
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0We've all heard geese fart before.
Go and do something constructive, you silly woman.
Go and paint your toenails or something……
Three hours of ranting and raving and she didn't mention the economy or crime. Maybe she forgot about that too. Of course she does want to prohibit demonstrations on the streets...guess maybe she knows what is coming. I would say that what happened in the Ukraine and VeneCuba has her a bit worked up.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0The younger generations in the UK have no interest in being colonizers...this is true.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0That is why they live in land that has been Britain for thousands of years.
the younger generations in Argentina however live on land stolen from the indigenous people in both the 16th and 19th centuries and they wish to colonise further land inhabited by the British since 1833 and claimed since 1690.
ElaineB, I think its the result of that clot - part of the Presidents brain is missing! Remember Spitting Image, they would have done a nice job on her. Its a great pity that Maggie and her henchman Norman arent still with us the shows would be rivetting.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0To all our Argentinian trolls.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you believe anything that this woman says?
Sooner than later isn't a time line, is it?
They had the chance last year to sit down and negotiate but they ran away, absolutely TERRIFIED by 2 people.
How brave your government is. You must be so proud of them.
Let's list their achievements, shall we?
1. Gainded sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.....NOPE.
2. Paid off, or negotiated settlement, of Argentina's foreign debt....NOPE.
3. Increased production of LNG and Oil after taking over YPF.....NOPE.
4. Stopped or controlled inflation.....NOPE.
5. Reduced crime......NOPE.
6. Reduced poverty......NOPE.
7. Improved Argentina's standing and respect in the world......NOPE.
8. Increased Argentina's military capability.....NOPE.
9. Prosecuted those responsible for the AIMA bombing.....NOPE.
10. Improved Edcutation and Health in Argentina......NOPE.
11. Embezzeled money into their own off-shore bank accounts....YES.
12. Humiliated Argentina on the international stage......YES.
So as we can see, the won decade has been completely a waste of time.
17
Mar 05th, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You missed the best part...CFk's fascinating speeches for hours and hours.
@22 That did occur to me. Maybe she needs a little prompting these days, it is not uncommon after brain surgery.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17 Nooooo! Argentines with terrible teeth! LOL I have noticed the same but we are told here that only the British have bad teeth.
I was supposed to be hopping over to Argentina on this trip - I am in Chile again - but it seems to be pushed back to July. I will need a full security detail by then.
“.....the young generations are not interested in being colonizers, because they are suffering the disasters of a world that condemns the young to no jobs and no future”, added the Argentine leader
Mar 05th, 2014 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ha, ha, ha!!!!!
”Projection” anyone.........?????
Apprantly argentine barbeques are very good so maybe lay one of those on and people will turn up for free food and wine.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still wont hand the islands over but you get your talks
kind of like negotiating with Iran over the nukes.. one side talks the other side wants..
Mar 05th, 2014 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If she wants to negotiates she know the phone number for the FIG. She can call anytime. They even went to London to meet directly with Timerman the kapo who was happy to meet with the people who murdered Argentine Jews in Buenos Aires but was too afraid to meet with two elected representatives of the islands that they pretend to want. But no. Nope, not interested in talking let alone with having “negotiations” be it sooner or later.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the young generations are not interested in being colonizers, because they are suffering the disasters of a world that condemns the young to no jobs and no future”
Mar 05th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The young with no jobs and no future? They have never had it so good and so easy.
“Sooner or later.”
Mar 05th, 2014 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My money is on later, much, much, much later, maybe!
Call it a gut feeling.
Shall we invite Elvis and Lord Lucan along as official observers?
Mar 05th, 2014 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only if they ride in on Shergar.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 019
Mar 05th, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...“We've all heard geese fart before.”
....I haven't...didn't even know geese farted...
23
To all UK Trolls....
It's easy to list failings of any Government...for instance.....
List: The 100 worst failures of David Cameron's Government. ...LestWeForget.
http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2013/10/list-100-failures-by-david-camerons.html
@34 - A_Voice
Mar 05th, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct. It is easy to list the failings of governments. Particular the Argentine Government that has a 100 year history of failure. And it isn't new failures, they keep making the same mistakes (e.g. corruption, economics, human rights, etc.).
It got to the point that Argentina's 100 year history of failures made the cover of the Economist and two thorough and well-researched articles were dedicated to the subject. It was truly interesting. You should read it A_Voice, it will give you a sense of perspective on what Argentina and its Government should be focussing on.
@34 O.K. Let us see the list you have of the failures of the Argentine government. You said it is easy.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34 try to stick to the story at hand you are sounding desperate to distract,
Mar 05th, 2014 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SELF DETERMINATION.......Argentina will accept this “sooner than later” after they change its government.
I 'Think' the KFC strategy is to say something just to deflect attention from her abject failings and remind her numbskull supporters of some cause that unites them. It used to be annoying but now its simply worthy of a yawn. Despite a year of full on 'diplomatic' effort by Gollum, blockading the Islands, setting up a Ministry (complete with failed minister), and a series of sham events and rallies Argentina is not one centimeter nearer their colonial goal! Now there will be a museum. I wonder whether they will put the various documents treaties and maps from their own national archive in it that confirm British sovereignty? I 'Think' not!
Mar 05th, 2014 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 036
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tit for Tat.....I said it was easy, I didn't say I was going to do it....
That is for the UK Wannabe's and Trolls to do...
If I were to think of a word to sum up the UK it would be...decline....
37
I was replying to the deflection @23....
Or is it OK for others to start deflecting.......?
38
It is the strategy of all Governments to deflect.....Period....
Have the British put the various documents treaties and maps from their own national archive in their own museum to confirm British sovereignty? I 'Think' not!
.....unless it goes something like....owned by the Spanish, claimed and settled by Argentina...stolen by the British........
@39 It must be difficult for you to swallow the fact that the Falklands will never be part of Argentina.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What do you think of CFK's failing memory?
40
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It must also be difficult for you to swallow the fact that the UK has been in decline for the last 200 years....its power it's wealth and its influence....
The Russians don't even bother listening to Britain anymore....
It's only a matter of time before they lose their place on the UN security Council....
Sad...all very sad....
In the Patagonia museum in Punta Arenas Patagonia there is a nice map dated 1840. The 'Malvinas' are on it and on each of the main Islands it says Great Britain territory. The documents that prove Great Britains sovereignty are in the Argentinian national archive. Deflection deflected.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Has KFC lost it, forgetting to mention her main deflection stunt and having to be reminded. Our Prime Minister is always on the ball, such a sloppy performance would be punished.
What is she smoking?
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 041 A_Voice
Mar 05th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is like everything else you post either sophistry or your very humble opinion. Which is like derrières, in the big scheme of things everyone's got one. Which qualifies your latest meandering as appropriately, and utterly meaningless.
Smoking - perhaps someone has put something in her Mate? What is in the stuff anyway? Too much of that and a few Pisco Sours and you would be well away!
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are all well aware of Argentinas failings and Britain's many recent successes. Foreign money is flocking to London, monied people from everywhere are buying London property, our creative industries are booming, our music is 'the best in the world', F1, the Premier League, falling unemployment leading Europe out of a massive world recession, high tech manufacturing steadily recovering, falling crime, its all great news. Poor old Arg they have got to get a grip and dump their loser government soon or it will be 20 years before they can begin to enjoy life again.
44
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well we'll all listen to Terence Hill .....
That Britain has not been in Decline for the last 200 years....
I think that a history book and a map might just show otherwise.....
45
So Johnny foreigner is buying up London...and you see this as progress.....
Britain is being swallowed by the rest of the world...soon there will be only England left, but still owned by foreigners and occupied by European migrants......
Still boring A_Voice
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately CFK forgot to thank those English people,
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know, the children of those nasty English pirates,
For any future help in the Falklands that they can give,
And those same people will tell her to Soddy offy.
.
@41 Not at all. The Empire was over decades ago and only seems to play on the minds of Argentineans because they covet it so much. As for influence, we still have it. You seem to confuse 'influence' with 'bullying' which is the way CFK would wield power if she had any. Gun boat diplomacy is way in the past but soft power is the modern weapon. You still think what you see on the news is the whole story. It is what happens behind closed doors that really matters. Something you will never witness.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comment regarding the UN Security Council is so misinformed I am inclined to pass it around to give everyone a good laugh.
Russia is a whole other subject. So, back to the subject of this thread. The Falklands will never be part of Argentina.
Talking about pirates,
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was the royal navy that helped many a slave to freedom,
And stopping slave traders from abusing them.
Two years at sea freeing slaves: Fascinating 200-year-old ship's log details how Royal Navy fought to stop brutal trade
• Log book from the British slave-hunter HMS Black Joke
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572967/Fascinating-200-year-old-ship-log-details-Royal-Navy-fought-stop-slave-trade.html#ixzz2v7eQIw3Y
Follow us:
.
I sometimes wonder, knowing British humour as I do, if the UK supports these BOTs just to niggle and annoy places such as Argentina. Like a small boy poking a stick into a dog in cage, just to make it bark.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just to show the UK has something they don't.
Like a powerful economy, global soft power and influence on the world stage. hmmm... just a thought jeje!
Argentina is so weak right now, shame for a country with so much potential... Botox can't mask everything!
It must be hard to be “Chit FucK. Thinking up new lies, deluding the population and demanding more money and more sacrifices.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fortunately, it won't last much longer. 5 years ”naturally” or 5 years months if we need an SAS death certificate. And, once the Slag of the South is gone, we can kill who we like. Best thing to do with argies is to shoot them. But not Argentines. Let's work on the basis that Argentines represent 1% of the argie population. Shoot the rest!
51 ilsen
Mar 05th, 2014 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, my friend, how well you know us!!! I consider my defense £'s well spent just so's it P*sses TMBOA right off!!
If it ensures the likes of Joe Bloggs and all the other Falkland Islanders can live in peace while sticking it to everyone in argentina who think they have a right to the place..... Oh man, now there is a joke that is NEVER going to get old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zva7I60LpeE
Mar 05th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would like it to be known that I in no way agree with Conquerer's comment in Post 52. I find them appalling and I think he is a disgrace. The same applies to another of his posts on a different thread that he made at about the same time.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 053 Too Old
Your MP name should be Too Good.
55 Joe Bloggs
Mar 05th, 2014 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What would life be? What would life be Joe, if once in a while you couldn't have a laugh at the Argentine president?
I mean, I don't know what's funnier, the fact that she says these things or the fact that some people in argentina believe it.
You take care Joe... Enjoy the rest of your day.
@55 I stopped reading posts by him a long time ago.
Mar 05th, 2014 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@51 I am genuinely interested in hearing all points of view.
your right “I'm sure the majority of the English people, particularly the young generations are not interested in being colonizers” because there not colonizers
Mar 05th, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0that's like soo 19 century
hahaha
“ when recently at the Celac meeting in Havana it was agreed that this part of the world is designated as a 'region of peace'.”
Mar 05th, 2014 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks to HM Forces this is a region of peace as Argentina hasn't invaded the Falklands since 1982.
46 A_Voice
Mar 05th, 2014 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your the one who is asserting “It's only a matter of time before they lose their place on the UN security Council....”, without one scintilla of proof. So while you you may consider your humble opinion important, it bears absolutely no weight, other than proving you have a derrière
60
Mar 05th, 2014 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think and proof? Ah ha ha ha ha!
Chuckle chuckle
Joe, I didn't quite hear that? Did you say Think is a poof - you might be right there! Our Spring is just beginning, the snowdrops are giving way to the daffs and summer is just around the corner, and everything is fine. Its just a matter of time until Columbia replaces Argentina in the G20 a little bird whispered to me…
Mar 05th, 2014 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chuckle chuckle
62 Captain Silver
Mar 05th, 2014 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where do you live? UK? If so, you could really do with some Spring weather. Our days are drawing in and I have more outside work to do before winter so I need to pull my finger out.
In the beautiful Chiltern Hills Joe. Just 40 miles from London. Midsomer murders territory. Its been very wet here, we are just venturing out in our gardens to tidy up. Village wine club tonight - Chilean wines we brought back from our trip there in February, really nice. We even had an Argie Malbec blend from Salta which was quite nice too. I am looking forward to a nice 7 day trip on my bike in April but can't decide where to go. I am out every day regaining fitness after all the rain.
Mar 06th, 2014 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 049
Mar 06th, 2014 - 12:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0In one paragraph explain why you think a tiny declining power should retain its privileged place on the UN Security Council and meddle in Global affairs....indefinitely.
...without mentioning Trident....
58
your right....there not
You're right.....They're not
That's soo like... barely literate....
60
Did you say anything, that meant anything in that post.....?
It's not enough to inanely babble and hope to appear informed.....
...are you still sore about the secret agreement proof...?
...that was soo... like yesterday......move on....
65 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2014/02/05/argentina-grateful-to-grenada-for-malvinas-claim-support-promises-cooperation
Of course your are referring to to your complete humiliation, in the above thread where you were exposed as a fraud and a liar. The final post #246 is the pièce de résistance, as Pascoe and Pepper incorporating Argentine historian Diego Luis Molinari and Professor Dolzerput put paid to your nonsense. Thanks again for bringing up your recent debacle.
@65 - interesting point in declining power.
Mar 06th, 2014 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0As an economic nation the UK are some of the most productive on the planet based on population size.
There has been a considerable reduction in the size of the UKs military. This is a normal response for moving over to an expeditionary armed force structure in times of peace.
Peace might I add that the UK and our allies sacrificed with blood, sweat, tears and finances to keep the world free from facism and the 3rd Reich.
The most interesting point is that the UK is law abiding, outward looking and hardworking. It is why as a population of around 65 million will always remain a considerable contributor to innovation, world culture and trade.
Our military capability can always be increased when the next evil ideology raises to claim the world.
It really is quite frightening the mind set, corruption and lies that circulate the Argentine government. They will continue to struggle with the leaders they have had for the last 50 years.
I genuinely hope you normal Argentines take CFK and her crooks out of the picture, lock her away for the rest of her life, and return to being a productive and respected member of the international community.
66
Mar 06th, 2014 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ah ha!...you are still sore.....I knew it.....was that the thread where I reduced your claim for East Falkland down to conquest and the secret article.....as your proof...
...did you ever really read that secret article....?..Did you notice what was missing....I didn't have the heart to point out the obvious after proving all your points were irrelevant as proof.....
To leave you with conquest as your only proof of entitlement seemed unsporting of me......;-)))
Especially when Britain have always done their damnedest to avoid a claim of conquest....
68 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 04:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why would I feel sore? when I have the complete satisfaction of showing that Nootka gave the UK an absolute claim to all the Islands, after Argentina's attempted usurpation. Moreover, the Peace of Utrecht barred Argentina from any pretended claim of inheritance from Spain, leaving the UK with uncontested proprietary of the Islands.
Conquest, is just a further entitlement, that is supported both under international law and by the UN. Thus: “the General Assembly declared in 1970 that the modern prohibition against the acquisition of territory by conquest should not be construed as affecting titles to territory created ‘prior to the Charter regime and valid under international law’.”
Akerhursts Modern Introduction to International Law by Peter Malanczuk.
The UK can advance further legal claims, Argentina doesn't have a legal prayer. Her claim was stillborn from the onset. What a masochist you must really enjoy getting beaten down.
Conquest.....hahahahahah....
Mar 06th, 2014 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite a conquest...the removal of 50 militia (according to the Argentine National Archivies) who had been on the islands 60 days (according to the Argentine National Archives) who had already murdered their captain Esteban Mestevier and raped his wife in front of their children (strangely absent from the National archives) without a shot being fired....wow!
It's hard to think of any area of the Americas who's sovereignty is less of a conquest.
The remaining population of the islands, was a small business who at the time of the “conquest” was currently under the management of two Britons.
Perhaps the conquest was attempted in November 1832.
So a more accurate history:
Discovered by the British
Settled by the Britiah
Settled by the Spanish
British voluntarily left
Spanish voluntarily left
Vernet business...Vernet voluntarily left
British Settlement...for 180 years
Oh yes...and 60 days of Argentine rape and murder in 1832
A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is a very simple way to solve this 'dispute'. Argentina (as the plaintiff) can take the UK to the ONLY LEGAL body in the world that can solve a sovereignty dispute. The International Court of Justice.
All Argentina has to do is show the evidence that:
Argentina 'inherited' the Falklands from Spain (there has never been ANY provision for that in International Law EVER in the history of the world).
Prove that the British acted illegally in 1833 (whilst simultaneously proving that Argentina a) existed and b) didn't act illegally themselves) by the laws of 1833 (which they didn't because in 1833 territory was only yours if you could defend it - and the United Provinces couldn't defend it and NEVER returned).
And then all Argentina has to do is explain why 200 years plus of continuous occupation by the Falkland Islanders and their ancestors and the right to self-determination (as guaranteed by the UN Charter) should be overturned.
So it is all very easy, isn't it?
And because we all know that Argentina's claims are based on half-truths, fairy-tales and outright lies, we also know why Argentina avoids going to the only place on Earth that could give them what they want, and instead crawls, begs and pleads to ANYONE else, knowing that they cannot help them.
So when the 'Dear Leader' CFK says talks will be held sooner than later, what does she actually mean? Sooner than next year? Sooner than the next decade? Sooner than the next century? Sooner than the next millennium?
And every DAY, WEEK, MONTH AND YEAR that goes by weakens Argentina's already pathetically weak claim and strengthens the Falkland Islanders legitimate rights.
Poor pathetic A_Voice. So very desperate know. Are La Campora still able to pay you?
We may be a tiny declining world power
Mar 06th, 2014 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Only 6th largest economy
4 th largest defence budget
22nd most populus country
Biggest financial market
International renown for the bbc,music books and film.
We are doing ok hows argentina doing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
Below gabon so doing worse than an african country oh dear.
#72 Never mind Gabon, Belgium seems to continually trump Argentina?
Mar 06th, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0How big (or tiny) is Belgium?
Lol!
71 Lep
Mar 06th, 2014 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Great post and as for “sooner than later”, IF something changes over time and in, say, 75 years, there are talks (only talks), the ancestors of Sussie, Marcos and Think will all be on Merco Press saying they were right about talks after all.
69
Mar 06th, 2014 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well if you insist on me embarrassing you further....
Lets have a look at this secret article that according to you...shows that Nootka gave the UK an absolute claim to all the Islands, after Argentina's attempted usurpation.
“SECRET ARTICLE
Since by article 6 of the present convention it has been stipulated, respecting the eastern and western coasts of South America, that the respective subjects shall not in the future form any establishment on the parts of these coasts situated to the south of the parts of the said coasts actually occupied by Spain, it is agreed and declared by the present article that this stipulation shall remain in force only so long as no establishment shall have been formed by the subjects of any other power on the coasts in question. This secret article shall have the same force as if it were inserted in the convention.”
Read it again.....what's missing in this legal document......
That's right..... the Islands.....not included in the secret agreement...
“respecting the eastern and western coasts of South America”
“shall not in the future form any establishment on the parts of these coasts situated to the south of the parts of the said coasts actually occupied by Spain,”
“of any other power on the coasts in question.”
..the devil's in the details of any legal document...or in this case.....Not!
What a masochist you must really enjoy getting beaten down.....
I will repeat again for those of you that have not followed the argument...
Britain has not ever had any legal, historical or otherwise entitlement to East Falkland.....
Apart from illegally occupying it in 1833 and squatting on it for 180 years....
Self determination is all you have to take to the ICJ.....and of course...THEFT!!!
GIVE UP EAST FALKLAND....
THEFT IS STILL NOT LEGAL ENTITLEMENT.....
@75 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PROVE IT.
The Spanish dropped their sovereignty claim to the Falklands (including East Falkland) and saluted the British Flag on their way out thus RECOGNISING that the British had sovereignty of the Islands.
The didn't recognised Argentina as anything other than a rebellious colony until nearly 20 year AFTER they'd dropped their sovereignty claim.
Plus you are also forgetting that in International Law (prior to the UN Charter), territory was only yours if you could hold it. The legal point is that the UK, in 1690, declared sovereignty of ALL of the Islands, did so again in 1765, and were then subsequently recognised by the SPANISH as having FULL sovereignty of the Islands.
Argentina has to PROVE that it has an historic, legal or MORAL right to any of the South Atlantic Territories, including the Falklands.
So if their claim is so solid, take it to the ICJ. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, then you are accepting that the British have FULL sovereignty over the whole of the Falklands, east or west.
So nothing in your post matters. You don't have the Falklands, you never had any rights to the Falklands, and you never will.
And if theft is NOT A LEGAL ENTITLEMENT, then Argentina has no right to ANY of the territory that it calls Argentina. Because, my La Campora troll, ALL of Argentina AND it's natural resources were STOLEN from the original inhabitants.
You really will have to do BETTER than that.
Argentina only ever tried once to seriously stake their claim. That was 1982 and they got their arses handed to them. UTI POSSIDETIS - a legal term that means land stays with the winning side after a conflict.
Whatever La Campora are paying you, it's obviously far too much.
@75
Mar 06th, 2014 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seeing as you profess to be so knowledgable regarding Argentina, perhaps you could give us your opinion on “ The Conquest of the Desert” when Roca “usurped ” Patagonia”. You have illegally been squatting in Patagonia less time than what you call the squatters in THE FALKLANDS. Perhaps we can come to an arrangement with you, you can have the FALKLANDS and we can have Patagonia.
75 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The relevance of which according to both Wiki and Getting it right: by Pascoe and Pepper
”an extra secret article removed the restriction on new establishments if any other power did make an establishment south of “the parts of those coasts already occupied” by Spain. In the late 1820s , Argentina did in fact form an establishment at Port Louis in the Falklands, south of coastal areas already occupied by Spain in 1790. By a strict interpretation of the Nootka Sound Convention, Britain therefore became entitled to form an establishment in the Falklands as soon as Argentina had become established there.
Argentine historian Diego Luis Molinari believes that the secret clause in the Nootka Sound Convention was specifically put in by Britain with the Falklands in mind, and that Britain’s reassertion of sovereignty in 1833 was an exercise of Britain’s rights under this clause. In the opinion of Professor Dolzer, the Nootka Sound Convention was a purely bipartite agreement between Britain and Spain, which means that Argentina could not benefit from its provisions in any way.” What's the difference? they're the experts quoting experts. your simply a sophist with nothing but your own unqualified humble opinion.
You have failed to show any legal basis for Argentina's claim while I have shown two treaties that support the UK's claim to the exclusion of all others.
@39 I 'Think' you'll have to 'clarify' that. The Islands were discovered by Britain in 1690. They were “officially” claimed by Britain in 1765. There is no record that any other country actually ever legally “claimed” them. The ignorant French built a settlement in 1764. In 1776, Spain buys the French settlement. Nothing else. Just the settlement. In 1770, the Spanish try “muscle” with 5 Spanish ships and 1400 troops. The British settlers must have been very frightening! In 1771, the Spanish king backed down and paid up. In 1774, Britain decides to evacuate many overseas territories having more important things to deal with. Sovereignty was NOT relinquished. In 1820, an American pirate turns up and claims the Islands for “argieland”. However, such attempted acts by criminals aren't legal. Then, in 1828, there were the treacherous acts of a turncoat kraut. In 1833, Britain re-asserted its sovereignty. Is it possible your “brain” will explode when understanding the truth?
Mar 06th, 2014 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@41 You need new words in your vocabulary. “British Army”, “Royal Air Force”, “Royal Marines”, “Royal Navy” and “Trident”.
@44 Isn't the “Voice” thing Scottish? And therein lies the explanation. watching his demi-god “Fish-face” (Salmond) being shown up as a lying, thieving incompetent must come hard. Probably the only “hard” thing between the two of them!
@49 Take the long view. The reality is that, believe it or not, Britain is the steel fist in a velvet glove. But one thing Mouthy has got right. Before long, Russia won't have a seat on the Security Council. Likely to be replaced by India. The world still thinks of Russia as if it were the Soviet Union of the 60s and 70s. But Russian “forces” are now about 1/3rd of those of the U.S. Even got beaten by little Chechnya.
@55 Yeah, being “namby-pamby”. Being willing to stand up to tyrants is a mark of nationhood. Verbally, if possible. Think on this. I am one of the people who decides whether there are British forces in the Falklands!
76
Mar 06th, 2014 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Show me one single legal document that the Spanish have signed transferring the Sovereignty of East Falkland or the Falklands to Britain......
I'll save you some time and research......there isn't one.....
78
Stop grasping at straws...
As I have quoted the secret article in full....it DOES NOT mention the Islands, whereas article six does....
The article refers to the eastern and western coasts of South America....
The article obviously only refers to the mainland in any legal terms.....
...therefore the secret article and your “Proof” is irrelevant....
Any legal team would state the obvious...
You again have not shown a single legal claim by Britain for the Sovereignty of East Falkland....
Apart from YOUR claim of Conquest.....
...Admit defeat.....
There is NO and never has been a legal claim for East Falkland....
Explain how the Utrecht treaty supports the UK's claim to the exclusion of all others....
...Squatters rights I suppose....is that your proof...?
“the world's eyes are opening and sooner than later we will be able to discuss the sovereignty issue as mandated by United Nations”.
Mar 06th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can anyway inform me as to ANY UN Resolution that states or implies that the UK MUST discuss the SOVEREIGNTY of the Falkland Islands with Argentina as I am unable to find one although I am sure that those more knowledgeable about the UN will be able to help me forthwith.
Thanking you in advance.
@81
Mar 06th, 2014 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There isn't one, as confirmed by Ban Ki-moon.
75 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh! yes the Islands are included, here is the evidence of your deliberate fraud by omission. This is the correct citation of Nootka.
ARTICLE VI
It is further agreed with respect to the eastern and western coasts of South America and the islands adjacent, that the respective subjects shall not form in the future any establishment on the parts of the coast situated to the south of the parts of the same coast and of the islands adjacent already occupied by Spain; ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Apcbg/Nootka_Sound_Convention
So no surprise as you exemplify your national ethos for duplicity.
Can you not read....?
Mar 06th, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@80
“As I have quoted the secret article in full....it DOES NOT mention the Islands, whereas article six does....”
..whereas article six does.....did you miss that.....?
Where is the fraud by omission...?
Your proof is that Argentina contravened the secret article as another power....NOT article six....
I will repeat again...the secret article refers to the South American mainland ONLY...your argument as stated ...that...
”an extra secret article removed the restriction on new establishments if any other power did make an establishment south of “the parts of those coasts already occupied” by Spain. 5 In the late 1820s (see sections 12 and 14), Argentina did in fact form an establishment at Port Louis in the Falklands, south of coastal areas already occupied by Spain in 1790. ”
Are you now changing your tune....?
If the secret article is irrelevant and only legally refers to the mainland...why do you keep quoting it...?
Article six only clearly refers to the respective subjects...Spain and Britain....
In what way does article six prevent Argentina (another power) from establishing a settlement on East Falkland as a successor to Spain's colonial possessions...?
It's great to see you switching from the relevance of the Secret Article...to Article six...but now read article six and explain in full how this gives Britain Sovereignty of all the Islands.....(East Falkland)
...it doesn't...
So I'm still waiting for the legal document that gives Britain Sovereignty of East Falkland.....
@57 How unfortunate for you. It bespeaks a closed mind. Shall we explore a little? You are a small community of, what, 2,932 people. You have a British garrison of around 1,200 troops, 4 RAF combat aircraft, an on-station patrol vessel and regular visits by RN destroyers and frigates. Possibly submarines. A few hundred miles away is a vicious state that wants your land. The only thing that stands between you and it is the British garrison and reinforcements from the UK. But you can't understand that lies, threats and invective have to be forcibly rejected. For some time, I have told argie trolls what Britain is capable of. I have written to my MP, a Secretary of State, to urge greater protection for the Falklands and its people. In return, you insult me. Perhaps it's part of the “Scottish” ancestry. Perhaps I should reverse my views? Perhaps I should tell my government that the Falklands aren't really important to the uk. Any oil won't benefit us anyway. Perhaps I ought to think, and say, that the British garrison should sail home. Scots are ungrateful for what they have been given for 307 years. Seems like Falklanders aren't much different. Why would I recommend to my government that British troops should be sent nearly 8,000 miles to help ungrateful people? Would the British government send troops if the British people were against it? There is a genocide going on in Syria. But enough mistaken British people got up on their hind legs and said “Not our business”. Could that happen to the Falklands? And yet you insult a supporter?
Mar 06th, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@65 You're quite right. The UK is a declining power. What do we make? The best main battle tank. The best air defence destroyer. The best fleet submarine. Coming soon - the best aircraft carriers. Wonder who designed all those things Americans like to have on their carriers? Angled deck, landing system, catapult, steel deck, jet aircraft, radar, the carrier concept. Whoops. It was the British.
@80 Funny. I'll come back to it.
MORE THAN A DECADE IN OUR LIVES.
Mar 06th, 2014 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cristina's last statements was mostly brilliant, although i don't agree on her partial lecture in relation to the taking from lugano, beside it's true that she didn't say a word about insecurity, which is people's main concerning.
On the other hand, it's false to say that she didn't refer to inflation, the problem is that orthodox economists expect her to say that inflation is due to monetary emission, and public expenditures, which is a very partial view, but none of them never say absoluty anything about the abuse that oligopolic corporations commit every time they increase the prices of the products, without having made enough inverstments, after having had huge profits, which are between 100% and 1000%, i would like to know what are the profits of important corporations in developed nations. She has always refered to this issue, including in her last statement.
On the other hand, as it was expectable, she didn't mention absolutly anything about the posibility of discusssing the right to legal abortion at the congress, unfortunatelly, thousands of women day every year in argentina, because of illegal practices of it. I will always keep on defending women's right to choose over their own bodies.
I have always said that despite some serious falencies of her government, and some flagrant contradictions, and beyond that we are still a very unequal society, nobody can deny that she has taken measures which benefit most popular sectors, that's why, in my opinion, it's the best government of the last 48 years, beside, she is doing now, what raul alfonsin couldn't do, when we recovered democracy in 1983.
Whoever wins presidential elections in 2015, he won't be able to apply the neoliberal policies that conservative parties would like to apply, because people have already empowered of all the achievements that we got in the last ten years, nothing will be the same in the country, after kirchnerism.
85
Mar 06th, 2014 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wow Elaine's comment must have really hurt.....
I can't resist stating the obvious, but how is Elaine going to read your reply if...
and I quote...“@55 I stopped reading posts by him a long time ago. ”
Never mind...I still read your posts...if that helps..?...
BTW if everyone else has failed to state credible evidence of historical legal British entitlement for East Falkland, what makes you an ex...“do you have anything to declare?” officer..can do better.....?
Dear Axel,
Mar 06th, 2014 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your posts are an insult to reason. Be a man and take your political campaign to the streets. If you dare, go ahead and try to explain all those so called “achievements” door by door ... you'll end up with a few broken bones.
@87
Mar 06th, 2014 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still nothing to say about Patagonia, you hypocrit, you can have EAST FALKLAND and we can have Patagonia.
So after 2+ hours none of the participants on this thread is able to supply me with an appropriate UN Resolution stating that the UK MUST discuss SOVEREIGNTY of the Falkland Islands with Argentina.
Mar 06th, 2014 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can only conclude from the non-existence of such a resolution that Ms Kirchener is guilty of a terminological inexactitude or maybe she is being economical with the truth or possibly as we say here in Ireland she is a 'fecking liar'
90
Mar 06th, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0your wish is my command......
Resolution 2065 (XX), 16 December 1965
http://www.worldlii.org/int/other/UNGARsn/1965/71.pdf
@91
Mar 06th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does it not state that the interest of the population has to be taken into account?
@91 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe that UN resolution is invalid. It was invalidated by Argentina in 1982.
However the resolution doesn't state that the UK has to discuss sovereignty with Argentina, it states that any dispute between the UK and Argentina should be solved peacefully taking into account the INTERESTS of the population of the Falkland Islands.
So now try to produce an ACTUAL UNGA or UNSC resolution that states that the UK must negotiate the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands away.
92
Mar 06th, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes.....
also.....
Reaffirming the need for the parties to take due account of the interests of the population of the islands in accordance with the provisions of the General Assembly resolutions on the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas),
4. Requests the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom to consolidate the current process of dialogue and cooperation through the resumption of negotiations in order to find as soon as possible a peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute relating to the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas), in accordance with the provisions of General Assembly resolutions 2065 (XX), 3160 (XXVIII), 31/49, 37/9, 38/12, 39/6, 40/21, 41/40, 42/19 and 43/25;
5. Reiterates its firm support for the mission of good offices of the Secretary-General in order to assist the parties in complying with the request made by the General Assembly in its resolutions on the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas);
http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/p.willetts/SAC/UN/AC109-L6.PDF
80 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here it is yet again for the lame, bewildered, and deliberately obtuse.
Peace of Utrech
Article VIII
“it is hereby further agreed and concluded, that neither the Catholic King, nor any of his heirs and successors whatsoever, shall sell, yield, pawn, transfer, or by any means, or under any name, alienate from them and the crown of Spain, to the French, or to any other nations whatever, any lands, dominions, or territories, or any part thereof, belonging to Spain...”
Since Argentina is barred, and in violation of two treaties between two other nations, it along with Nootka. It legally triggered UK to protect its interests in the only appropriate way, as Argentina had ignored two official protests.
Entende, bye, bye Argentina, hello the only nation left with a bona-fide claim, the UK.
So the UK has three treaties to support it's claim while Argentina is specifically barred. So who has the the only right, and whom has none? Quick it isn't rocket science.
75 A_Voice
The operative words are “these coasts” and “by article 6 of the present convention it has been stipulated ” in the secret article. Which Art.VI explicitly states “and of the islands adjacent”
There was no theft from Argentina as she was barred from any entitlement to the Islands by prior treaties.
84 A_Voice
Argentine historian Diego Luis Molinari believes that the secret clause in the Nootka Sound Convention was specifically put in by Britain with the Falklands in mind, and that Britain’s reassertion of sovereignty in 1833 was an exercise of Britain’s rights under this clause.
@94 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No legal or imperative requirement is indicated. The only forum which can decide matters of sovereignty is the International Court of Justice. Why doesn't Argentina take all its lies, fairy tales and myths to the ICJ?
95
Mar 06th, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor effort.....
Argentina were not obliged to inherit treaties between Spain and Britain...
There is no precedent in international law that a new state..country ...inherits treaties....
The operative words are.....
“respecting the eastern and western coasts of South America, that the respective subjects shall not in the future form any establishment on the parts of these coasts”
Wriggle all you like, but the article is quite clear....
Not Islands hundreds of miles away........Coasts of South America....
Any credible lawyer would laugh at you interpretation.....
Accept the fact that you are wrong and live with it....
...in future instead of accepting other peoples words.......read the document yourself.....
Not a single legal entitlement for Britain to East Falkland....
Even the treaty of Utrecht doesn't give entitlement to Britain by default.....
Perhaps we should invent one....
“In the event of Spain selling pawning or transferring or LOSING her colonies, Spain's possessions immediately become the property of Britain.....”
add that one while I'm not looking.....
You really haven't got a leg to stand on.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTduy7Qkvk8
Does Cristina mean she's about to take the flight from Rio Gallegos to go and negotiate with the proper people? She can't take the presidential plane, it might be snatched by creditors.
Mar 06th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@97
Mar 06th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still waiting on your responce with reference to the usurpation of Patagonia? You have nothing to say?
97 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hardly a poor effort on my part as this is not my interpretation but that of a Argentine historian et al
The only one that is wriggling is you with all the appearance of a caught trout. As all your rebuttals rely on your own unqualified humble opinion, which counts for nothing. Whereas mine rely on the original treaties and expert interpretation.
Nootka Convention 190
“...Neither of the contracting parties was prepared to allow another power to control the passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean. ...”
German Yearbook of International Law 1983
JÖRG FISCH: The Falkland Islands in the European Treacy System 1495—1853 106
So this appears to be the accepted view in international legal academia.
No one has suggested that Argentina that is bound by treaties between Spain and Briton. But the treaty Peace of Utrech does is exclude Argentina's claim, and establishes a legal basis for the UK. While all Argentina can rely on is force of arms, and then when the party she has acted against reciprocates in kind, she has the temerity to complain.
The words are “and of the islands adjacent” so they are abundantly clear and are not qualified as to distance, so your just trolling. As D.W. Greig writes in his “Sovereignty and the Falkland Islands Crisis” on Nootka.
“Falklands, which equally undoubtedly were islands adjacent to coasts”
In conclusion, my legal legs are profusely rooted in precedent, while yours and your nation's are up the proverbial creek without a paddle.
Ahhh! A_Voice, Lunatic's little sock puppet.
Mar 06th, 2014 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let us all not forget that.
(Lunatic of Chew Butt = El Think, except he never does.)
97 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well then Think, if, as you say:-
“Argentina were not obliged to inherit treaties between Spain and Britain...”
and
“Even the treaty of Utrecht doesn't give entitlement to Britain by default.....”
and ( my favourite )
“Any credible lawyer would laugh at you interpretation.....”
If all that be true ( which it isn't ) then surely a trip to the ICJ is just a formality then huh?
Yeah???
So... ( and please forgive me for not understanding ) given all the above, why hasn't argentina done so already???
Huh, Think??? huh????
You know what I THINK?? I THINK that it is you who should:-
“Accept the fact that you are wrong and live with it....”
and it is you that is making the “Poor effort.....”
and it is YOU that is talking B*llocks.
Poor widdle A_Voice, widdle Think's sock puppet. Can't THINK for itself, can't get anything right.
You go on my boy, you go on talking your B*llocks, better still, keep talking to that woman hater THINK, you two would make a lovely couple.......
A voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain gained sovereignty of East Falkland because it was available in 1833 to be colonised.
When Britain first claimed sovereignty in 1690 it did so for the whole archipelago, however as you rightly state, they lost the rights to East Falkland to Spain when they failed to maintain a civilian population.
Spain continued to exercise sovereignty of East Falkland until 1811. When they voluntarily left their claim became no more or less relevant than Britians historic 1690 claim.
Argentina never had a civilian population on East or West Falkland, and at the point of 1833 there was a small (near failed) business being run by two Britons, and a militia from the UP that had arrived 2 months earlier.
It is stretching the imagination that these constitute an Argentine “population”. Indeed even Argentina has stopped calling it that.
As far as “squatting” for 180 years is concerned....so what...? Argentines have squatted for 500 years, most British for 20,000 years....
@97 Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”The operative words are.....
“respecting the eastern and western coasts of South America, that the respective subjects shall not in the future form any establishment on the parts of these coasts”
Correct - the Falkland Islands are not part of the South American coasts as the UK (less than 20 miles from France) is not a part of the French coast.
The Falkland Islands are not connected by land to the South American continent and no credible lawyer would dispute that fact.
So they cannot be part of the coast-they are 'off the coast' (ie the Isle of Skye is off the coast of Scotland-not on it).
@94 A_Voice
Mar 06th, 2014 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On 2 April 1982, Argentina INVALIDATED all UN resolutions regarding the Falkland Islands. That means that the UK is under NO obligation to discuss the weather with Argentina, let alone sovereignty.
However, the sovereignty dispute was resolved on 12 June 1982 when the UK kicked the Argentine's out of the Falklands for good.
The UK also took and takes into account the interests of the people of the Falkland Islands (which Argentina won't do), and the people of the Falklands have overwhelming voted to remain a British Overseas Territory.
The British have offered to sit down with the Argentine government and discuss areas of mutual benefit to both Argentina and the Falklands, most recently in February 2013, and the Argentine Foreign Minister proved that Argentina isn't really interested in talking by running away in front of the whole worlds press!
How very embarrassing for Argentina to be shown to be cowards, liars and completely insincere in front of the whole world.
So nothing you have written, nothing the Argentine government has said or done will change the FACT that the Falkland Islands will be British for as long as the people who live there wish it - that's called taking their interests into account.
So keep up your impotent ranting, because that is all you'll ever have.
100
Mar 06th, 2014 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To sum up your evidence for British sovereignty claim for East Falkland.....
Treaty of Utrecht....
..a treaty between Spain and Britain..that Spain would not sell, pawn,transfer etc...in the future...blah de blah...
It didn't ...Spain lost it's colonies of the Viceroyalty of the River Plate which included East Falkland....
Nowhere in the treaty does it state that Britain would be able to claim East Falkland...so no legal entitlement....
Nootka Convention..
Article 6
This stipulated that neither party would make further establishments on the coasts or “adjacent” islands already held by Spain...
Another agreement that does not anywhere show a claim of entitlement for Britain for East Falkland.....
Nootka Convention..
Secret Article....
Only mentions quite clearly ...the East and West coasts of South America and is therefore irrelevant to the Falklands.....
Again does not show a legal entitlement for Britain to East Falkland....
So what else do you have...?
Nothing....
This is the reason Britain favours self determination...because they have no claim and excuse for occupying East Falkland in 1833 after having abandoned West Falkland for 60 years....
It is a case of land theft by Britain...there was a settlement already there, it originated from the Argentine Republic that was already recognised by Britain officially.
The Governor for this colony had been appointed by the Argentine Republic...
There is no credible evidence of a British Sovereignty claim for East Falkland...
When you find one..let me know....and stop repeating the same old tired excuses for Piracy....by Britain....
106
Mar 06th, 2014 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So take it to the ICJ.
Simples
@105
Mar 07th, 2014 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0All very interesting, except it was made irrelevant in 1850, in 1945, in 1982, and repeatedly every year since the Falklands became a NSGT.
106 A_Voice
Mar 07th, 2014 - 02:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It didn't ...Spain lost it's colonies of the Viceroyalty of the River Plate which included East Falkland....”
It's immaterial to Briton, as any violation of the treaty allows it to take what ever steps are necessary to mitigate the breach which is thus: “transfer, or by any means, or under any name, alienate from them and the crown of Spain, to the French, or to any other nations whatever, any lands, dominions, or territories, or any part thereof,”
A_Voice says your honour that “Secret Article....Only mentions quite clearly ...the East and West coasts of South America and is therefore irrelevant to the Falklands....
But I offer in rebuttal the historians and international jurists or their writings as follows Dr. Graham Pascoe, Professor D.W. Greig, Professor Jörg Fisch, Professor Dolzer, Dr. Diego Luis Molinari. Who will clearly show that Article VI and the the Secret Article are so intrinsically related that the violation of the former triggers the the exercise of the latter by the UK. Thereby, under Nootka giving the UK clear claim to the Islands over all other pretenders.
The Court: ”What exactly is A_Voice's expertise?“
The UK cannot steal what is already theirs by colour of right. ”a settlement already there, it originated from the Argentine Republic“. Was in effect, an illegal mutinous garrison. As Argentina has already conceded, there was no disturbance of any settlement. ”There is no credible evidence of a British Sovereignty claim for East Falkland...”. Already shown Nootka, thanks to Argentina.
The only people that engaged in piracy were the Argentina agents Jewitt and Vernet.
Self-determination is again another irrefutable legal right, and there are still more. While Argentina cannot claim even one right under international law, but we all knew that anyway.
109
Mar 07th, 2014 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stop quoting other peoples opinions and stick with the facts....
Nowhere in any of the treaties is there a British entitlement to legally seize East Falkland from Spain or anyone else.....
I have stated what the treaties state and also what they do not state...
I have neither added nor taken away any words....
I have been waiting for you to prove a British entitlement and you haven't..
Keep reading and quoting opinions...they will not alter the facts.....
Britain does not have a claim....for East Falkland other than piracy....
105
On 2 April 1982, Argentina INVALIDATED all UN resolutions regarding the Falkland Islands. That means that the UK is under NO obligation to discuss the weather with Argentina, let alone sovereignty.
Really...then I suggest you look at the date on the link from the UNGA...May 2012..
www.staff.city.ac.uk/p.willetts/SAC/UN/AC109-L6.PDF
110 A_Voice
Mar 07th, 2014 - 03:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Nowhere in any of the treaties is there a British entitlement to legally seize East Falkland”
Nootka clearly releases the UK from any prior obligation preventing them from seizing East, West, North or South Falklands. Triggered by establishment having been formed by the subjects of another power(Argentina) on the coasts in question. So I have proved ad nauseum, that both by treaty and international law the correct legal view. The fact that you want to obfuscate the issue and deny it doesn't change the the legal criteria one iota.
Piracy is your unqualified interpretation, but only pertains to Argentine agents, as international law is clearly on the UK's side. So you can stamp your little feet and bang your little pots but it isn't going to alter the legal reality. That Argentina has twice attempted illegal usurpations, albeit unsuccessfully. Nor does it appear that the situation is likely to change in her favour.
A voice
Mar 07th, 2014 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stop quoting your opinions and stick to the facts.
There was no Argentine settlement on the islands, there was no Argentine governor there.
There was a small business being run by two Britons that remained both before 1832 and 1833. no Argentine “governor” or any other such title there.
There was a militia who'd been there two months, and had already murdered the guy appointed “governor”.
Stop pretending either of these are an Argentine settlement and stick to the facts.
ICJ :)
Mar 07th, 2014 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Problem for argentina
Mar 07th, 2014 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0You cant threaten the UK
Your spectacularly economically incompetant
Dont really have a leg to stand on.
@113 Joe Bloggs,
Mar 07th, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed, ICJ.
Argentina- put up or shut up!
But l don't plan to pack, anytime soon.
110 A_Voice
Mar 07th, 2014 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: 105 LEPRecon
“That means that the UK is under NO obligation to discuss the weather with Argentina, let alone sovereignty.”
Is in fact correct under international law, as any råesolutions emanating from the UNGA are mere advisements and not binding.
Whereas,“there is no obligation in general international law to settle disputes”.
Principles of Public International Law, third edition, 1979 by Professor Ian Brownlie
“The precise scope of the obligation is, however, that states should settle disputes peacefully, not that they should settle them. In other words, there is no general rule requiring a state to settle its grievances. Rather, the rule is that if a state does decide to settle, this must be done in a peaceful manner.”
page 275
Textbook on International Law By Martin Dixon
http://books.google.com.br/books...
In any event, the UK has never refused to discuss sovereignity or anything else with Argentina, despite the 1982 invasion. The UK has simply declined to discuss the sovereignity of the Falkland Islands without the approval and participation of Falkland Islanders.
Mar 07th, 2014 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really monstrous, piratical, imperialist and colonial, that is.
A sane, rational and democratic country would draw the obvious conclusion as to the way forward, but this is Argentina we're talking about, and it is clear that the dispute is more valuable to the Argentine political class than the actual islands would be.
@110 A_Voice
Mar 07th, 2014 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bolivia (Plurinational State of), Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua and Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of): draft resolution
And so?
Well, depending on ones point of view,
Mar 07th, 2014 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0their is nothing stopping the great Argentina navy , air force or its troops from coming to the UK and forcing us to give you the islanders,
so what's stopping you,
[scared ?? surely not ]
after all we are only a tiny weensy little island are we not, lolol...
Why on earth is anyone trying to argue a legal case with malvinista wind-up merchant Think/voice/dod/etc,etc?
Mar 08th, 2014 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0If any malvinista was able to come up with anything that could be credited as even a half decent point, then surely it would be malvinista lawyer-in-chief Marcelo Kohen...and he would have managed to slip it into the UN's Audiovisual library of international law.
So come on folks! Can anyone find as much as a dig at the Falklands from Marcelo at the UN legal guidance website?
http://legal.un.org/avl/pdf/ls/Kohen_bio.pdf
...Spain lost it's colonies of the Viceroyalty of the River Plate which included East Falkland....
Mar 08th, 2014 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Spain lost to Argentina only those territories over which Argentina established and maintained effective control. Argentina did neither on the Falklands. So, if any part of the Falklands was Spanish, it was still Spanish in 1833, and therefore Spain's prerogative to complain about any action the UK took there, not Argentina's. And Spain never did.
@106
Mar 08th, 2014 - 07:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It didn't ...Spain lost it's colonies of the Viceroyalty of the River Plate which included East Falkland....”
Argentina was not mentioned in Nootka, it is therefore a third party-Britain did not expel Spain in 1833-and could not have broke the convention.
Spain accepted British sovereignty of the Falklands in the 1800s (I will supply the date if you require this) by visiting Stanley (not Pt Louis) and saluting the Union Jack.
@110 AVoice
“Really...then I suggest you look at the date on the link from the UNGA...May 2012..”
AND???????
At the very top of this is:
“Special Committee on the Situation with regard
to the Implementation of the Declaration on the
Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries
and Peoples ”
It is therefore the job of this committee to ensure that the Falkland Islands achieve Independence.
Therefore if the committee is fulfilling its remit the only solution to the so called 'colonial situation' is for the UK and Argentina to work out how the Falkland Islands achieve independence.
Becoming a colony of Argentina will not 'de-colonise' the Islands.
As the so called special committee cannot even follow its own remit (i.e. perform its function properly') there is no justification, whatsoever,for the UK to take any notice of it.
It also states in the passage you have quoted that the interests of the population (i.e. that of the Falkland Islands NOT that of Argentina or the UK), must be taken into account.
Therefore, as the Argentines take NO notice whatsoever of the interests of the Islanders, there is NO justification for the UK to acknowledge a committee that does not even understand its own remit.
@115 Islolde
“But l don't plan to pack, any time soon.”
But will the Islands offer CFK political asylum when she packs her bags? After all she has done more to highlight your cause than anyone else.
As she is so keen on Port Louis perhaps there might be a shanty going in the general vicinity somewhere in the hills?
# 121 Precisely!
Mar 08th, 2014 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@122 Pete Bog,
Mar 08th, 2014 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lol!
Well done Pete, some great points.
Mar 08th, 2014 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Isolde, thought I'd say a quick hi, and hope you've had a good week.
Really do think Argentina should take it to the ICJ. Their behaviour is down right silly and quite uncivilised. It should be resolved within the confines of international law.
We all know why Argentina will never take it to the ICJ though.
@125 JGF,
Mar 09th, 2014 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, they never will.
They keep hoping for a miracle though.
Perhaps the Chinese Navy appearing over the horizon & “convincing” us to meekly surrender to their Argentine Allies.
They would rue the day that they ever got into bed with the Chinese.
@126 - I completely agree. It's such a shame that the Argentine Government will continue to sacrifice the Argentine people for their own private interests.
Mar 09th, 2014 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0You'll continue to get the full backing of the UK. There are far to many rational minds to allow in this day and age the kind of ideologies that would destroy the free world.
It will be a proud day for both the UK and the Falklanders when you can have full independence and a special relationship with us based on confidence, trust and the rule of law.
@110
Mar 09th, 2014 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Show me the treaty that shows that the indigeinous population allowed you to annexe Patagonia, anyway we have East Falkland and we are going to KEEP IT.
Now listen hear you stupid and silly woman ,stand in front of the mirror, don't be surprised if it cracks , now shake your head , hear anything ? ., no ?.......thought so , obviously confirms lack or absence of brains , now what about this inflation problem and the unemployed plus the corruption in your country ??, seems you forgot about that , no wonder , no brains to fix a broken and corrupt government !!
Mar 09th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cry for me Argentina is nearly reaching the 400 comments and the threads covering Falkland/Malvinas topic is static. Somethings seemething seems to be changing here lately
Mar 10th, 2014 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've just read through the comments on here and I have to state Terrence Hill you make a compelling case. Kudos for being a legal legend.
Mar 10th, 2014 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Keep your chin up Falklanders as you always do, we're here for the long run to keep the Argentine mafia off your backs (with your solid support too of course).
Argentina could not inherit the islands upon independence anyway as Spain did not have De facto control since 1811.
Mar 10th, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0• the Arana-Southern Treaty of 1850 (the 'Convention of Settlement'), ended all possible claims by Argentina on the Falkland Islands.[27][94]
• That Argentine leaders indicated in the 1860s that there was no dispute between Argentina and Britain, and that Argentine maps printed between 1850 and 1884 did not show the islands as part of Argentina
So no case , no claim , .
@132 Briton
Mar 10th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good point, and the country that Argentina claims to be Argentina, but wasn't until 1853, didn't replace the Spanish in 1811, so there was no continuation.
A-VoiceofThinkedOver
Mar 11th, 2014 - 04:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Stop quoting other peoples opinions and stick with the facts.... ”
“I have stated what the treaties state and also what they do not state...”
LOL,
AVoid doesn't want Terence referring to the legal opinions of distinguished historians and academics,
But he DOES want us to take his own opinions as facts - whoever he is !
A-Voice, he who is deliberately evasive about who he is - what unknown political and national affiliations and motives shape his 'opinions????
What a joke, thoroughly trashed by Terence with logic and expert testimony!!
What a joke he is!! :-)
The Malvinas will be returned within the next 25 years.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@135 Hepatia,
Mar 11th, 2014 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps you'd like to share your inside information with the rest of us mere mortals?
1) what or who are the malvinas?
2) who are they(whatever they are)going to be returned to?
3) why should that interest us?
4) why 25 years?, whats so special about 25 years? why not 24 or 26 years?
Answers please.
@135
Mar 11th, 2014 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0in 2012 you also told us “The Malvinas will be returned within the next 25 years.”
135 Hepati
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0And the moon is made of cheese.
@135 - for something to be returned they must have first belonged to Argentina.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands have never been nor will the property of Argentina backed by historical fact and international law. Your imperialist dreams will be stopped and your attempts to blockade and discriminate the Falklanders will be stopped and always will be stopped by the UK and the Falklanders.
@135 Hepati
Mar 11th, 2014 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Malvinas will be returned within the next 25 years”
If by the Malvinas you mean the Falkland Islands yes, they will be returned to the Falkland Islanders within 25 years (even though technically the UK has not taken them away), by the UK, who will not need to be the Islander's guardians when you abandon your Hitleresque Nazi ideals.
However if Argentina continues to be wannabe Imperialists (the South American Third Reich )I expect the Islanders will delay independence until Argentina grows up and joins the 20th (maybe even the 21st) century.
perhaps 135 Hepatia knows things we don't,
Mar 11th, 2014 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps he is going to get them back single handed .lol
141 Briton
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Malvinas will be returned within the next 25 years.”
Wasn't that what laughing boy timerman said when he came to London? and completely didn't meet members of the FIG?
Didn't he scurry to a side office in the same building and give some half-witted press conference where he uttered that nonsense?
Or was it at his hotel?
Anyway, the point was that he did the conference at exactly the same time as he was supposed to be meeting the FIG and the Foreign secretary.
Oh timermen, you are such a coward!!!
And he is very deluded..
Mar 12th, 2014 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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