MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK reiterates support for Gibraltar's people right to determine their own future
A senior Foreign Office minister summed up Britain’s position on Gibraltar firmly and concisely this week in Parliament. “At the heart of this issue is the right of the people of Gibraltar to determine their own future,” said Baroness Warsi, Senior Minister of State at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesSmack smack smack
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0You naughty naughty Spaniard!
Past time that ALL British people and all those that respect self-determination, freedom and the rule of law tell the British government that it MUST respond forcibly to Spain. “Assets” must be despatched so that intruding vessels can be intercepted and both they and their crews can be arrested. Vessels to be seized and crews to be tried and then imprisoned for 2-year sentences. And there must be a military presence at the border. The Royal Gibraltar Regiment must be deployed to deter the Guardia Civil. Speak up people. The British government IS responsible for defence of the self-governing territory called Gibraltar. No differently to the argies and the Falkland Islands, the Spaniards LIE. And they don't “discuss”. Because they have no credibility. Or honesty. If authorised, British forces do have the capability. Fast jets, attack and gunship helicopters, hovercraft, armour, artillery. Thirty thousand people are being harassed and attacked. It is unacceptable that this sort of thing can be allowed in Europe in this day and age. Contact your political representatives!
Mar 13th, 2014 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since then much has changed. ..... naaat !!
Mar 13th, 2014 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile, in southern Europe.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=33234
MEPs in the European Parliament in Strasbourg yesterday voted to exclude Gibraltar from draft EU aviation legislation designed to harmonise air traffic control.
The MEPs backed a Spanish amendment that removed post-Cordoba language that would have ensured the ‘Single European Sky’ legislation was extended to the Rock.
A number of UK MEPs indicated during Tuesday’s debate that they would vote against the whole proposals if that amendment was passed. ...The overall legislative package was, however, backed by 489 votes to 154.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=33234
EU vote first step to Rock exclusion from aviation measure
Mar 13th, 2014 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The MEPs backed a Spanish amendment
development means that, for now at least, Gibraltar’s airport has been excluded from draft safety and regulation measures
News of the vote drew angry reactions here and in the UK.
The whole situation that Spain has created for the EU makes no sense whatsoever
“It is wrong and totally unacceptable both in principle and in law for a part of the European Union to be potentially suspended from the application of a measure of EU law in this way
. A spokesperson for the British Government described the position as “inconsistent” with the EU treaties – which are clear that Gibraltar is part of the EU
The UK cannot accept a return to the pre-2006 practice
The UK Government should not allow the Spanish Government to get away with taking the benefits of the Cordoba Agreement whilst allowing them to resile from those parts of the agreement that benefit Gibraltar.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=33233
The Uk government needs to get a serious grip of this before the inevitable happens,
The more we allow the Spanish to get away with it, the more Spain will push, and the more chance of someone getting hurt,
And that [step to far] may well be breached.
Just me..
...
It's the usual disgraceful display from the EU Parliament but the problem is more complex. However, what it does prove is Spain's dishonesty.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seven years ago, Spain signed the Cordoba agreement under which one of their obligations was to drop any objections to Gibraltar airport being included in EU directives. This PP government has reneged on that commitment, proving that a Spanish signature is not worth the paper it is written on.
So, the Cordoba agreement? Obligations on the UK and Gibraltar:
- Build a new airport terminal up against the border: done at a cost to Gibraltar of £60m
- Pay pensions to the Spanish workers in Gib who lost their jobs when Franco closed the border: done at a cost to the UK of about £150m
- Facilitate the creation of an Instituto Cervantes in Gibraltar: done
Obligations on Spain:
- Drop all objections to Gibraltar as part of EU open skies initiatives: Spain has resiled
- Build a Spanish entrance to the airport: never even started
- Increase fluidity at the border: Spain resiled from this. As I write the queue is over 2hrs for cars and yesterday 1hr for pedestrians
- Accept Gib's international dialling code - done
Joint: set up a tripartite forum for dialogue. Spain resiled from this 2 years ago.
So: once again we get all of the costs and uphold our end of the bargain, while Spain has done absolutely nothing.
And I agree with #4: it's high time the UK started pulling its weight. We in Gibraltar are sick and tired of hearing that “Spain is a valued ally and friend”.
It is not. Time for the UK to do something. For a start, it can openly promise to veto Spain's bid for a UN Security Council seat on the grounds that a nation that doesn't respect international law cannot hold such a position.
But we're not holding our breath.
How about first recognizing that Gibraltar is built on land taken from Spain, admit that to yourself if you can, realize you're not without sin.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Joint sovereignty/an accord is the most obvious and just position.
Gibraltar is built on land taken from Spain.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar is not without sin.
Done! He who is without sin cast the first stone..... back of the line Spain!
Doesn't change a thing and doesn't mean that Gibraltar should submit to Spanish mismanagement.
All Spain does is reinforce and bolster Gibraltar's national identity. That is leading to only one result. The opposite of what Spain wants.
So why whinge.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pick 1 route.
What do you really expect.
@6 Vestige
Mar 13th, 2014 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is quite simple - the territory was ceded to Britain “in perpetuity” under the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713.
Look at the world map for this time, what if everyone wanted all borders and territories to be restored to this time ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_map_changes#18th_century
one entry made me laugh -
“2011 December 31 — Samoa and Tokelau switch to the western side of the International Date Line, skipping December 30 entirely”
Gibraltar has chosen 1 route. To be part of the United Kingdom.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What people like you don't seem to understand is that being part of the United Kingdom doesn't preclude independence. Being part of Spain does.
What I expect is an independent Gibraltar. But it's not my call and there is no rush. All in good time.
Very well, that route involves the all or nothing approach when dealing with Spain, so bringing border queues and possible denial of flights.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet its a whingefest in Gibraltar every time, quickly followed by piss and vinegar....followed by a whingefest.
Spain is taking the all or nothing approach. Not Gibraltar.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is Spain that is unhappy with the status quo. Not Gibraltar.
Gibraltar's existence or actions don't harm or alter Spain's standard of living or economy. Spain's do harm Gibraltar's.
You can twist this anyway you want. The simply fact is that Spain is chucking a tantrum because Gibraltar refuses to do what it wants.
I will not deny that Spain's actions harm Gibraltar. However Spain is not going to get the result it wants. Spain only reinforces the belief that Gibraltar's future is not within Spain.
Spain can do what it likes at the border and with EU legislation because it won't change that fact.
You continually pointing out Spain's actions only reinforces this. Spain has not gained anything it wants.
“Gibraltar's existence or actions don't harm or alter Spain's standard of living or economy. Spain's do harm Gibraltar's”.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly.
And Gibraltarians know this harm is an inevitability if they refuse to share sovereignty.
They know the reasons why. They know the historical context. That they're there against Spain's will from day 1 of their colonial history.
They've been offered a compromise in shared sovereignty.
And made a choice.
So why on earth would they continually whine in their newspapers and all around the net.
They're in a fight of sorts, one they willingly walked into, yet they whinge when they get hit.
Spain will indeed get what it wants, watch LaLinea continue to grow in British and Gibraltarian population.
Marriages and children mixed from/on both sides of the pesky border that splits the otherwise practically unified urban area, both sides frequented day and night for business, leisure and necessities by thousands of crossing workers and consumers and friends of both nationalities in both directions.
The two mixing tribes, conversing (mostly in Spanish) as they work and live together on both sides realizing the logic and practicality of sharing sovereignty.
De facto thats the somewhat situation already, a place filled with tanned citizens with Spanish surnames, economy reliant on Spanish workers and consumers, economy heavily affected by Spanish policy, tourism/imports/exports sectors controlled by Spanish border, residents/visitors commonly chatting away in Spanish, and accepting Spains currency in all businesses including Spanish chainstores with local Spanish grown foods, driving on the right hand side, majority Catholic, majority Spanish tv signal channels, (possibly no BBC - unsure) flights via Spanish ATC.
Im sure theres more.
Demographics, practicality, cultural mixing and EU politics will see the place shared soon enough.
“They've been offered a compromise in shared sovereignty.And made a choice.”
Mar 14th, 2014 - 07:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes they have. Because they CAN.
“So why on earth would they continually whine in their newspapers and allaround the net”
Because they can. Spain can't stop them from doing what they want so they will say what they want.
”Spain will indeed get what it wants, watch LaLinea continue to grow in British and Gibraltarian population.
Marriages and children mixed from/on both sides of the pesky border that splits the otherwise practically unified urban area, both sides frequented day and night for business, leisure and necessities by thousands of crossing workers and consumers and friends of both nationalities in both directions.
The two mixing tribes, conversing (mostly in Spanish) as they work and live together on both sides“
This happens in borders regions all around the planet. It doesn't lead to sharing sovereignty. That's a leap in logic based on no fact.
”De facto thats the somewhat situation already, a place filled with tanned citizens with Spanish surnames“
Yes and all these traits make the people Gibraltan.
”economy reliant on Spanish workers and consumers, economy heavily affected by Spanish policy, tourism/imports/exports sectors controlled by Spanish border, residents/visitors commonly chatting away in Spanish.... Spanish chainstores with local Spanish grown foods, driving on the right hand side, majority Catholic, majority Spanish tv signal channels, (possibly no BBC - unsure) flights via Spanish ATC.”
And all these activities happen in Gibraltar not in Spain. (btw Euro is a shared currency already)
“Demographics, practicality, cultural mixing and EU politics will see the place shared soon enough.”
And yet in 2014, none of these factors have led to Spanish sovereignty. After 300 years of all this mixing, there is no real support for anything other than being British.
Your post is full of wishful thinking. Sorry reality such a disappointment to you.
Spain is in no shape to take back Gibraltar.To do so you need to be a powerful nation, which Spain is not.When Spain becomes a powerful nation then the UK might consider sitting down and talking about sovereignity.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simply look at how easy it has been for Russia to take back Crimea....by force!
13 - Lets see, wishful thinking.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Standard work day ~8 hours. Border time, lets say ~ 1 hour.
Conservative estimate of Spanish/LaLinea workers in Gibraltar 5 days a week ~7500.
Business, personal visitors from LaLinea, v conservative estimate ~2500.
Basically if you go there 08:00 - 18:00 theres 10,000 Spanish people sharing the 7 km2 (2.6sq miles) with you.
Every third person you talk to will be Spanish in this small place.
50 years ago. Above category figures - negligible. Closed border, almost mono-cultural. Spanish population ... minuscule to zero.
Today: Gibraltar, day to day, is 25% Spanish population, 33% of the time.
Is it not so ??
Causes - EU, demographics, practicality. No ??
Re; Leap in logic.
“This happens in borders regions all around the planet. It doesn't lead to sharing sovereignty. That's a leap in logic based on no fact”.
These are individual cases/situations. One case does not predict the others outcome in either direction.
Gibraltars individual case is being a peninsula with one of the worlds highest population densities, a short walk from a Spanish town twice its size. Both regions growing, with very limited space and housing on Gibraltars side.
Which is why you have a sizeable and growing population of British and Gibraltarians in LaLinea.
The economies of both now highly interactive/dependent. The populations of both highly connected.
This of course is hugely contrasted with the much greater part of the famous “300 years”.
In fact its pretty much an inversion of the last 300 years.
And its continuing daily.
So wheres the wishful thinking.
And yet it is 2014 and after all your carefully thought out logic, Gibraltar is STILL not part of Spain.
Mar 15th, 2014 - 02:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0And with all this economic, social, linguistic and genetic mixing, there is no desire to be part of Spain.
None.
So the proof I offer is Gibraltar in 2014.
The proof you offer is wishful thinking.
My prof exists.
Your proof doesn't.
Meh, Id say its getting there.
Mar 15th, 2014 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My proof kinda does exist, just go there and see.
Bring sunscreen, the queue can take a while.
Vestige
Mar 16th, 2014 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have been there.
It is a fact that Gibraltar is still a British Overseas Territory.
It is a fact that in 2002 86.5% of the electorate voted AGAINST shared Spanish sovereignty.
With a new constitution in 2006, Spain is even further away from your fantasy.
You are attempting to pass off predictions and unproven facts as reality.
And it's isn't working.
Spain is running out of options at the border. It can only escalate by doing two things. Make the queues even longer of close the border. Neither option will help it win over the population. Spain's current course is a dead end.
And the funny thing is, you know it!
Because all you can talk about is the delay in crossing the border. Because that is the only result so far.
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