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‘Kelpers’, helping Argentine to understand the Falklands growing nation
The reaction of the Argentine public to Clarin journalist and author Natasha Niebieskikwiat's recently launched book ‘Kelpers’ has been, “less aggressive,” than she expected Natasha told Penguin News. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesYou can't foster better relationships with the Islanders without accepting their right to be who they want to be and how they are governed and who they chose to align themselves with.
Mar 29th, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Using the term Falkland Islanders is certainly a start and better than that filthy 'M' word.
“Miss Niebieskikwiat’s book is controversial, even if the stories are not.”
Mar 29th, 2014 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0......La compora will see to it that from now on, her life in argentina will be hell.
That's what I like about the present argentine governemtn........ f**k all
The doctrine from the Argentine government
Mar 29th, 2014 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the people are British but the land they live on is Argentine”
The truth
“the people are Falkland Islander and the land they live on are the Falkland Islands”
The islanders have a close affinity with Britain and are a British overseas territory...they have no affinity with Argentina because of the behaviour of Argentina.
She is a fair lass and her views, thought and opinions are well respected here.
Mar 29th, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem with any Argentine commentary on the Falkland Islands is that it is tinged with a patronising tone, like they are unequal because they are not hispanic. They see any people who prefer a monarchy to a presidential system as less enlightened.
Mar 29th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How would a country like Argentina survive in the EU, where you have a multitude of languages. cultures and customs?
South America should respect the Falkland Islands for their unique qualities, a people different from themselves that have evolved in the same part of the world but live their lives with english culture and not a spanish one.
Are they capable of this? the Qom Lik probably wouldn't agree.
Good on you Natasha; although I obviously don't entirely agree with you I find you a fair and balanced person and I think you speak a lot of sense.
Mar 29th, 2014 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 05
Mar 29th, 2014 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The problem with any Argentine commentary on the Falkland Islands is that it is tinged with a patronising tone, like they are unequal because they are not hispanic.”
so?
there were millions of immigrants here who were not “hispanic”, british between them.
and all of them, were received in the best way, all of them are totally integrated here, etc.
the difference is that they did not want to form a colony dependent on another country.
“How would a country like Argentina survive in the EU, where you have a multitude of languages. cultures and customs? ”
funny
because there is a multitude of languages, cultures and customs within argentina.
you know, the immigration policy of argentina is one of the best in terms that it is totally open and that immigration (legal or illegal) is not considered a crime, like in the u.s. or the u.k. for instance.
so, immigrants are not jailed or deported just because they dont have the “papeles” like in the u.k.
that really helps when you want to create a multicultural country like this
“that really helps when you want to create a multicultural country like this”
Mar 29th, 2014 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0having lots of land to stick them in helps also, thank god you slaughtered the locals and colonised Patagonia then eh?
8
Mar 29th, 2014 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#thank god you slaughtered the locals and colonised Patagonia then eh?#
no
those were the british sheep farming companies in patagonia.
read a book once in a while.
8. It is odd that you think Argentina is multicultural, I lived there 5 years and saw a black person 1x selling jewelry on the streets in Tribunales.
Mar 29th, 2014 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I did see many time dark skinned (indians) pushed out of the trains, pushed off of busses, not let into restaurants and discos though. I saw them being really nasty to Peruvians and Chinese too.
Argentine's are some of the most prejudiced people I have ever run across.
Unless you are fair skinned you are treated very very badly in Argentina. I recommend to my black friends that they don't go.
It is weird you think Rgs are worldly and accepting.
I wonder why.
Argentina could not exist in a community like the EU because it doesn't pay its' debts.
Mar 29th, 2014 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also because it is not mature enough as a nation to give up it's false claim on the Falklands.
Even MercoSur wants to leave it behind when negotiating with the EU.
Hopefully Natasha's book will start the re-education so badly needed there.
10 yankeeboy
Mar 29th, 2014 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i respect your opinions, so to speak, because unlike the rest, you have lived here.
now, i admit that there is some kind of discrimination against peruvians and bolivians, mostly between the upper classes.
maybe something similar to what happens with the pakistani in the u.k.
you know, there is always somebody who blames them for everything.
Pakistanis in UK fuelling corruption, says law chief:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512221/Pakistanis-UK-fuelling-corruption-says-law-chief-Attorney-General-warns-politicians-wake-threat-posed-minority-communities.html#ixzz2xOlGMnSq
as for the blacks, i dont know where you got that there is racism against them.
luckily and unlike the u.s., there is not violence related with racism.
regarding the number of deaths during the last 100 years, the u.s. and south africa, must be considered the most racist countries worldwide
@12
Mar 30th, 2014 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Paul, you are blessed with enough knowledge of express yourself in English, well done.
But unfortunately for you, most people on here have a worldly knowledge based on travel and experience and education systems that encourage exploration of facts, not dogma.
Tell me, what generation are you? 1st or 2nd gen. Italian or Spanish? Its OK, we understand world travel is a something you may never be able to experience in your lifetime, such is the lottery of life. I feel your pain.
I didn't know about this book. I'll read it. Glad to see more people here in Argentina who is interests in recognize the very very obvious existence of the Falkland's People. I'm celebrating this!
Mar 30th, 2014 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Falklands growing nation”
Mar 30th, 2014 - 01:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Static population and unrecognized anywhere as a nation.
13
Mar 30th, 2014 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0frost
“Tell me, what generation are you? 1st or 2nd gen. Italian or Spanish? ”
i am 5th or 6th generation, depending on which family branch.
and like the majority of argentinians, i am a mix of a lot of ancestries, mostly irish and spanish, but there is a bit of other ones too.
it seems you think we are either spanish OR italian.
again, you guys talk without knowing anything about this country.
luckily argentina is like a melting pot.
“Its OK, we understand world travel is a something you may never be able to experience in your lifetime, such is the lottery of life. I feel your pain.”
wrong again.
i had the luck of working in spain and travel through europe.
visited britain twice, i loved edinburgh.
the british people was great.
well, during the london riots not so much, but anyway i prefer to focus on the positives.
exactly the opposite of you lot.
9 teen Paulo
Mar 30th, 2014 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0“8
#thank god you slaughtered the locals and colonised Patagonia then eh?#
no
those were the british sheep farming companies in patagonia.
read a book once in a while.”
Actually, no. That was your General Roca, “Hero of The Ethnic-Cleansing of The Desert”.
According to statistics, there were only ever 1.1% of your overseas immigrants who were British.
By comparison - 45% were Italian, 31% Spanish.
http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1990/1/90.01.06.x.html
An Argentinian, I think it was you, previously posted a list of Land Purchasers/Ranch Owners in Patagonia, between 1888 and 1912 - less than 20 % listed were British, contrary to what you said.
Statistics do not support your blame-shifting.
@16
Mar 30th, 2014 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now its the London riots you've survived LOL - thanks to Google. Sorry, you are mistaken, you have NEVER visited my country.
Tell me, how does a '6th generation bonafide Argentine' feel about a first generation Germano/Spainard head of state making your nation a destitute laughing stock? I suggest a stricter immigration policy to stop this sh!tty cycle you people seem to be addicted to.
@18 FI_Frost
Mar 30th, 2014 - 04:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Now its the London riots you've survived LOL - thanks to Google. Sorry, you are mistaken, you have NEVER visited my country.”
@16 teen Paul
“i had the luck of working in spain and travel through europe.
visited britain twice, i loved edinburgh.
the british people was great.
well, during the london riots not so much, but anyway i prefer to focus on the positives.
exactly the opposite of you lot.”
Frost,
Paul is hardly being gracious, having previously, sharply denounced the British regarding the London riots.
He shared with us his visit to his S. Irish cousins and their shared animosity towards the Brits.
His story is bit different this time, to suit his posturing. It reminds me of an item I read on the 'net, though,
On a train from London to Edinburgh, an Argentine Internet Troll was berating the Englishman sitting across from him in the compartment.
“You English are too stuffy. You set yourselves apart too much. You think your stiff upper lip makes you above the rest of us. Look at me... I'm ME! I have Italian blood, Spanish blood, a little German blood, Qom Lik blood, and some Irish blood. What do you say to that?”
The Englishman replied:
“Awfully sporting of your mother, old chap!”
“Khan and five others were jailed in 2009 for using 'ghost' voters to win a local council ballot to oust longstanding Labour councillor Lydia Simmons from her seat on Slough Borough Council.”
Mar 30th, 2014 - 05:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512221/Pakistanis-UK-fuelling-corruption-says-law-chief-Attorney-General-warns-politicians-wake-threat-posed-minority-communities.html#ixzz2xOlGMnSq
I think that Khan just have discovered how the Tories win elections in Ukistan and copy paste the system...
Unfortunately he was discovered that’s all...
20 Dunny
Mar 30th, 2014 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are racist and OFF- TOPIC.
- you have NO relevant comments or arguments.
FAIL
20
Mar 30th, 2014 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dodger Burger attempts to distract by raising one of the very few attempts at corrupting the British Electoral system. They got caught and the system is robust enough to withstand such attempts as this proved.
What has this got to with a book about the Falkland Islanders' positive contribution to their environment?
Why can't you discuss the book, the author or the potential effect of said book?
Hahahaha Danny!
Mar 30th, 2014 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know what made me laugh the most. The fact that you put words on what we all know, or the reaction of these dimwits :)
Vestige
Mar 30th, 2014 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lookup the definition of a nation.
You are confused again.
Good that the public consciousness about the Falklands is raised in Argentina, without the source being negative contrived propaganda from a jealous angry and conniving Argentine government.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0When the oil starts flowing and all the Yanquis arrive, the bordellos of Buenos Aires will be rocking once more.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile the Falkland Islanders will be able to continue their peaceful and civilised existence. Hopefully a lot wealthier too.
The Argies will start using the book as a self-help manual.
When or if?
Mar 30th, 2014 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Beware of the anti-climax, it's a risky business...
@ Paul and Berger-off
Mar 30th, 2014 - 08:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you attempt to fraudulently cheat the electoral system in Britain you will almost certainly get caught and thus get your name in the paper. Unfortunately there were a small number of cases where local Pakistani councillors or their agents resorted to electoral practices successfully used in their country of ethnic origin and it is important to stamp that out, but that is not evidence of discrimination against ethnic minorities or indeed even against the Pakistani community who don't want electoral fraud either. I suggest you Google “Alphabetical List of xxxxx City Councillors” and try manchester, Leicester, Leeds, Bradford if you want to see whether the ethnic minorities get to be well represented or not.
Good call Redrow.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK can easily withstand the comments of a couple of trolls. They love to try to use racism to stir things up.
But always fail.
Brave lady! She's likely to be a target for the local rent-a-mob.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0It would be interesting to see how many schools would be willing to use the book when they cover the islands in the history class.
Reading non-fiction may be a treat!
It is good that they are shifting in Argentina to understanding of the Kelper people, some Argentines do live in the Flaklands and they are happy to do so. Argentina should take the success story of the Falklands as a blue print of a government with little or no corruption and a great success with the highest living standards in South America. The British didn't expel civilians nor kill off the natives as the imperial European Argentinians did to the real owners of Argentina (Gral Roca) nor do the Falklanders contradict themselves in terms claiming colonial rights “inherited” from the Spanish to “decolonize” the Falklands and establish the Argentine unwanted imperial rule. Lets hope that in a so geographically rich nation as Argentina, the Argentines mature and copy instead of attacking the Kelpers. Only then will Argentina be really happy and will stop levying one of the highest taxes on the planet the Argentinean corruption tax which stifles their geographical and intellectual wealth.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yup, it is actually a self-help book for the Argies!
Mar 30th, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie...of course...“when or if” it's a risky business.....lol
Mar 30th, 2014 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it was riskier before Desire Petroleum and Rockhopper exploration ran 3D seismic in the North Falklands basin
It was riskier before they tendered the Ocean Guardian rig in 2010
It was riskier before Rockhopper made the Sealion discovery and successfully appraised it 8 times.
It was riskier before the 9th appraisal found four additional discoveries.
It was riskier too before Borders and Southern discovered a large gas condensate discovery in the South Falklands basin.
Most importantly, it was riskier still until Premier oil committed to invest $3bn on a production development timed for 2018-2019.
Yes indeed “if or when”
With each development the “when” becomes more likely....
So 500m-700m barrels of oil at say $80-100 per barrel @26% duty.
Somewhere around $10-15bn of income to the islanders
If or when....LOL
Yet more for your jealousy and inferiority complex to eat you with....LOL
The trolls will eat themselves from sheer rage and jealously!
Mar 30th, 2014 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bhaaahahaha!
@ilsen
Mar 30th, 2014 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“They got caught and the system is robust enough to withstand such attempts as this proved.”
I just wonder for the rest that you corrupted system doesn’t catches...
@Stevie
“I don't know what made me laugh the most. The fact that you put words on what we all know, or the reaction of these dimwits :)”
I guess is the reaction of the brainless posters here, haha
I’m just worry that they get confuse with the light of their monitors and think that is a sunny day a go outside to put eggs like the chickens...
Ha ha
@ Redrow
“Unfortunately there were a small number of cases where local Pakistani councillors or their agents resorted to electoral practices successfully used in their country of ethnic origin and it is important to stamp that out, but that is not evidence of discrimination against ethnic minorities or indeed even against the Pakistani community”
You have already done a wonderful discrimination service to the Pakistani.
Racist who?
@31
Mar 30th, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To compare running the Falklands to running Argentina, makes me concerned for you and your perspective vision.
No Redrow has made no racist remarks here.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You just can't read properly.
Also the UK electoral system is one of the least corrupt in the world. You can't say that about Argentina!
Anglotino.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lookup the definition of recognized.
Seems you are confused again.
http://www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm
Tonga...Togo....Tuvalu...Nauru...Sao Tome...Kiribati...Vanuatu
hmmm ... no falklands.
From my experience:
Mar 30th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People who do not know a thing about the Falkland Islanders, usually call them
“kelpers.”
Philippe
Thank-you Ilsen.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dany - I've no idea what you are on about. Racist would be oppressing a small country because its people had more British ancestors than Spanish ancestors.
Dany is upset because I shot him down on another thread so he has to come here and randomly attack people with his half baked arguments and febrile insults.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps he should read Natasha's self help book?
39-41
Mar 30th, 2014 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said, Gents!
Danny, here again,
Mar 30th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the islands are British and always will be,
besides no one is perfect, but vote rigging is more apparent over there, than it is here..
Dany Berger is the guy who would (according to him) happily sacrifice 10,000 Argentines (but not himself) to “recover” the Falklands....tells you everything you need to know about that cretin.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The islanders may well be stills but they are our stills so we will defend them.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dany is a busted flush.
Mar 30th, 2014 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I and many others have proved.
Vestige
Mar 30th, 2014 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As per most ignoramuses, you confuse state with nation.
Try again.
I got this book bought and my relatives will send it to me. I really would like to read it. It is nice to see that in Argentina people can write and read anything...
Mar 30th, 2014 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway this is not the first book written with a deifferent point of view. Some islanders even wrote books and got them published.
Let me know what you think about it.
Mar 31st, 2014 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I will look on Amazon for it.
My Spanish is ok but obviously easier and faster for me in English.
I am interested to know your opinion
“My Spanish is ok...”
Mar 31st, 2014 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0yeah, right... LOL
Idiot @50
Mar 31st, 2014 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who are you to judge?
I was capable of studying, successfully, a Master degree in the university de los Andes, Merida in political science and currently run business in the UK and Venezuela.
What do you do?
I was being humble and self depreciating. A luxury unavailable to you I would suggest?
fool!
Anglotina.
Mar 31st, 2014 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I never said it was/wasn't a nation.
I said no-one officially recognizes it as such.
51
Mar 31st, 2014 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0chuckle :-)
52
Vestige is back - the recurring malignancy.
Paulie is easy meat...
Mar 31st, 2014 - 02:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0One can find this on any street corner in Venezuela. ....
Does he have a business in London?
Bhaaahahaha!
Vestige
Mar 31st, 2014 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0If calling me Anglotina satisfies some deep-seated need for you, then you're welcome. It doesn't change my message nor limit my ability to continually show you up.
I repeat that you have confused state with nation AGAIN.
A nation does not need validation to exist. It simply exists.
A state does need to be recognised and hence validated.
To not recognise the Falkland Islanders as a nation is to ignore the definition of nation.
You argue with emotion and can't critically think. And when that happens you have already list half the argument.
And you can thank Argentina for doing more to promote Falkland Island nationhood than anyone else. To be an “us” you have to have a “them”. And Argentina have continually promoted the idea of “us and then” for more than three decades now.
51
Mar 31st, 2014 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I was capable of studying, successfully, a Master degree ....blablabla”
yeah, right...lol.
LOL
@ilsen
Mar 31st, 2014 - 03:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0The only one not able to read properly is you...
He has made a clear racist remark because he is “remarking” that this is a common practice in Pakistan.
But since these people to be elected have to be British, legal residents, etc. they are part of the British society even if you like or not.
So the remark of “Pakistani” is clear a racist, xenophobic and discriminatory element.
Anyway corruption among British politicians is not new and is well documented...
“TWO councillors were jailed yesterday for their part in the country's largest vote-rigging conspiracy, which “betrayed democracy” in one of the most deprived areas of Britain.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1316835/Hackney-poll-fix-councillors-jailed.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1316835/Hackney-poll-fix-councillors-jailed.html
You have the case of another tory councillor who was jailed for squandered 92-year-old widow friend's £154,000 life savings
“When Mrs Gittens died in 2012, she was given a pauper's funeral funded by the local council, because Morgan had even drained her accounts of any money to pay for her burial.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1316835/Hackney-poll-fix-councillors-jailed.html
Are you in the fraud voting bussines too?
57 Dunny
Mar 31st, 2014 - 03:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0You should quote Redrow fully and in context to understand the meaning of his post,
“ ...that is not evidence of discrimination against ethnic minorities or indeed even against the Pakistani community who don't want electoral fraud either.”
but that won't give you your desired spin, will it.
Neither Redrow nor ilsen have made any racist remarks, unlike yourself who are one of the most blatant racists on MP.
This is an off- topic DIVERSION, just trolling.
@Troy Tempest
Mar 31st, 2014 - 05:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Doesn’t matter how you want to dress it up now...
“Unfortunately there were a small number of cases where local Pakistani councillors or their agents resorted to electoral practices successfully used in their country of ethnic origin”
He has clear remarked that this is successful electoral Pakistani practice used in their country of origin can you see above?
Well that is not true because this is a practice not only used by Pakistani in UK, like I have showed above with other case of electoral fraud in UK.
So seem to be a common practice to win elections in UK despite their respective ethnic origin.
Even in the sentence you were discriminatory...
While the performers of the bigger voting fraud case (according with own press) received just 6 and 4 months the poor Pakistani received a sentence of 3 years and a half for doing the same thing.
Seem sentences in Ukistan goes up or down according with your ethnic origin...
Always double standards and hypocrisy especially when you call other racists.
LOL
Dany
Mar 31st, 2014 - 05:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please show where electoral fraud is considered okay in the UK?
Yes some people have tried it and been caught, but UNLIKE countries such as Argentina, electoral fraud is considered a crime.
So in Argentina, where electoral fraud is an everyday occurrence, such a matter probably wouldn't even hit the newspapers, let alone the headlines.
And in the UK, where electoral fraud is a rare occurrence, such matters hit the news headlines.
I know it's difficult for your tiny mind to grasp this very basic concept.
Now back to the topic at hand. An Argentinian writer is trying to give an unbiased account of the people of the Falkland Islands, their society and their culture.
Do you actually have a comment on that?
If you don't, why don't you regale us with your cunning plan to sacrifice 10,000 Argentine citizens in a futile attempt to invade the Falklands? At least your invasion fantasy is amusing, despite your obvious lack of compassion for your fellow Argentinians.
LEPR
Mar 31st, 2014 - 07:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good points, but Dunny calling anyone else a racist is pure hypocrisy.
He is perhaps the worst on here for racism against Muslims, especially Pakistani's in the UK.
He thinks we share that same racism, but only hide it.
Dunny seems to believe he can make us feel embarrassed, angry, fearful, and above all, ashamed, that Muslims, or other cultures/races he deems “lesser” are living freely in our societies.
Just a reflection of his own nasty values, and a recurring strategy.
Hey, Dunny!
It's not working and you are OFF- TOPIC.
@ Dany
Mar 31st, 2014 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your insertion of the word “commonly” in post 57 is a pretty despicable misrepresentation of what I said. What i said was binary, either electoral fraud has or has not been used successfully in pakistan. On the latest Corruption transparency index, the UK ranks 14th, Argentina 106th and Pakistan 127th. These are not my figures but Transparency International's so you will have to take it up with them. You even then quote a theft case which has nothing to do with electoral fraud. I have neither said nor implied anything racist, my first post even invited you to look up the councillors of ethnic pakistani origin who are elected up and down our country and who work hard for our councils.
Though I do understand your desire to deflect from the actual story which is about Falkland islanders being more accurately represented in Argentina -this is something that clearly annoys you as it is easier to sell your malvinista obsession if the FIs can be dismissed as non-people. Whereas, if ordinary Argentinians realise that the islanders are real hard-working people living peacefully in a country they have built for themselves over generations then you have lost.
@56
Mar 31st, 2014 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tosser. Is that all you got? I have no need to prove anything to you.
@57
The posters above have replied fully and I concur fully with them.
Redrow is no racist. You are. Taking a few words out of context just makes you look a fool.
Fail.
@LEPRecon
Mar 31st, 2014 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh! dio...
“Yes some people have tried it and been caught, but UNLIKE countries such as Argentina, electoral fraud is considered a crime.”
The CEA (Código Electoral Argentino) has a 6 to 4 years in jail for the same kind of electoral crime like those performed in UK.
Code 137 CEA
“So in Argentina, where electoral fraud is an everyday occurrence”
Nope that is a lie and can be extremely difficult to perform such kind of fraud.
1- Unlike in the UK Argies voters have ID with bio-metric details to identify them.
2- You have to be registered first as valid voter in the “Padrón Electoral” which is publicly available and each “Polling Officer” designed by the parties have copies.
3- When people vote personal ID is required and each “Polling Officer” from the parties have to check in their “Padrón Electoral Copy” who you are and if you are registered in it.
4- If so and all “Polling Officers” have not any objection you are entitle to vote
5- Your vote process is marked in all copies of the Polling Officers
6- All parties Polling Officers controls de quantity of votes per each “electoral box” and all together have to sign a documente in where they have agree with the scrutiny of the votes.
This compared with your poor postal voting system where a Nigerian called Guasubi can claim to be Elizabeth Robson to vote for Cameron is an amazing control system.
What do you think?
“And in the UK, where electoral fraud is a rare occurrence, such matters hit the news headlines.
I know it's difficult for your tiny mind to grasp this very basic concept..”
I love when you talk like because you make me laugh a lot you know...
If there is very easy to do in Ukistan is fraud.
“Now back to the topic at hand. An Argentinian writer is trying to give an unbiased account of the people of the Falkland Islands, their society and their culture.
Do you actually have a comment on that?”
Yes another poor writer that wants to sell a book and found 3000 clients in a Island...
Dany thanks for commenting on the story, even if it was only one line.
Mar 31st, 2014 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can understand that you feel threatened by anyone who doesn't follow the La Campora indoctrinated party line.
So tell me, what about this book to you find disagreeable? The fact that she shows the Falkland Islanders as human beings, with the same rights as the rest of the people on the planet?
You can't do postal voting in Argentina?
Mar 31st, 2014 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wow how backwards is that.
Is it just me or was there a recent article on how many tens of thousands of police and soldiers were needed during the last Argentine election. Each polling station needed an armed guard.
Bahahahahahaha I've never seen a policeman when voting, let alone a soldier.
When I lived there a K vote was $50 pesos or a box of food. I would bet its a lot more now!
Mar 31st, 2014 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also the Ks drove trucks into the slums and handed out electronics and appliances during the weekend of the voting.
Punteros...
http://www.argentinepost.com/2007/10/buying-votes-in-argentinas-election.html
But I can't believe it. Dany insisted there was no fraud.
Mar 31st, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh! Dio.....
Oh gosh if you google “electoral fraud Argentina” you'll see many case studies have been done on how endemic widespread and accepted it is.
Mar 31st, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NEATHER ENGLISH, NOR ARGENTINES, ARE YOU SURE?.
Mar 31st, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry natasha, but i really don't think you have some of the convictions that you expressed.
If you think that the islanders are neather english nor argentine, then i wonder why you put the british flag in the cover of your book, instead of putting the flag from the islands.
On the other hand, you say that kirchnerism has had an agreessive posture in relation to the population from the islands, sorry, but i think you are making a very partial analysis, because you omit the fact that the government from the islands, and the u. k., have always said that they are disposed to discuss with arg. about many issues, but not about the sovereingty, which is the main problem, then it's evident that they don't want any dialogue, what they actualy want, is arg.'s submission to their will, don't forget that arg. is your country too. Beside, if you say that arg.'s historical claim is valid, i don't understand why there is not any critic to the u. k.'s rejection, about opening a dialogue with our country, in order to find a peaceful solution for this conflict.
Perhaps, what you and many others dont understand, is the fact that our claim for the islands, and the lack of application of the right to self determination for this case, isn't a kirchnerism's caprice. Our claim is a constitutional obligation, beside, if you analized seriously about the application of that principle for this cause, you would see that it's hightly arguable, not only because of the fact that this cause has always been considered like a special case since 1965 by the decolonization committee, which is something that many people in this forum usually invalid, but also because public international right not always applies self determination for all the cases, under any circunstance.
Sorry, but i think that if you were serious, you wouldn't have such a demagogical posture, just to be praised by the islanders. Not always we can be politicly correct.
Axel, Are you happy with your raise even though it 2/3 of what inflation will be this year?
Mar 31st, 2014 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you remember telling you very soon the gov't won't keep your raise to inflation?
Are you planning on eating cat food now?
Cold showers and sweaters to bed too?
70 axel arg
Mar 31st, 2014 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, our case hasn't been considered a 'special case'. Provide evidence or shut up.
And nobody cares what you put in your constitution. Seriously, you could put anything in there. It has no bearing on our rights under the UN Charter.
There is no 'peaceful solution' that involves violating our rights. You know this.
Yes, we want Argentina to 'submit to our will' not to be dominated and subjugated by a foreign power. That's you. You have no right to do this, and no right to expect us to negotiate over it. What a completely mad idea.
70
Mar 31st, 2014 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If you think that the islanders are neather english nor argentine, then i wonder why you put the british flag in the cover of your book, instead of putting the flag from the islands.”
...perhaps because they are British.....
....to be English...one really needs to be born in England....
‘Neither English nor Argentine’ ARE YOU SURE?
Mar 31st, 2014 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good point, (70) Axel Arg...
“...perhaps because they are British.....”
Well spotted, (73) A_Voice...
OMG! Think and his sock puppet have woken up! With the whining from Axel in the background the racket is deafening.
Mar 31st, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All of it is totally irrelavent
cricket cricket cricket
Mar 31st, 2014 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nary a sound out of Vaca Muerte FDI
I Think that is why someone is lashing out at his betters.
Poor thing
Everyone, and I mean everyone is talking about another devaluation this year.
Wouldn't that be icing on the cake!
@ yankeebobo Strikes again
Mar 31st, 2014 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell me boy how useful could be to buy a vote if you cannot know what the person have voted inside the voting room?
Only an idiot that want to be scammed could buy votes.
“Also the Ks drove trucks into the slums and handed out electronics and appliances during the weekend of the voting.”
Another stupidity, suppose you give a “Ferrari” to vote for your candidate how are you going to know what I have voted in de voting room?
Give me a Ferrari and I will vote for you favourite candidate idiot...
As you like to talk about no existent electoral frauds in Argentina I thought that you should know about the frauds carryout in elections in USAMEX with the electronic vote.
The confession in court of the programmer who was asked to produce a code to manipulate elections in USAMEX.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M2AAigq0Fw
Hypocrite who?
77. Maybe you should read some of the 100s of case studies that are out there on Electoral Corruption in Argentina. They'll be able to explain it much better than I can.
Mar 31st, 2014 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=electoral+corruption+argentina&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=w9U5U-TdDeWI3AXQo4D4AQ&ved=0CCkQgQMwAA
You'll have to pick through them to see if any are written in languages you understand.
Good luck
Let me know how it goes
Anglo -
Mar 31st, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Settle down Anglo, dont argue emotionally.
You have to recognize that sometimes someone might call you a name back.
Anyway, if we go by your terms theres a bigger nation in my local highschool. I wonder if the goth kids are a nation too.
They'd at least be recognized by someone.
73 A_VoiceofThinkedOver
Mar 31st, 2014 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ 70
“If you think that the islanders are neather english nor argentine, then i wonder why you put the british flag in the cover of your book, instead of putting the flag from the islands.”
...perhaps because they are British.....
....to be English...one really needs to be born in England.... ”
Really, A_Voice ??
Is that what is needed? Is that how British or English Nationality and ethnicity are defined or determined ?
If born in England, they are “English”, and British,
but born in The Falkland Islands, they are NOT “Falklanders”, but they ARE “British”???
Is that definite? Are you sure??
It seems to me, that it is not up to you to decide who is “British” or not, you mysterious, “I am just A_Voice”, non-Scotsman.
Using your “special knowledge”, tell us - are they in fact, “Argentinian”?
HM Government and the FIG are quite good at defining who is a British Subject and “ you are not on the list”.
Vestige
Mar 31st, 2014 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Settle down Anglo, dont argue emotionally.”
Wow. Thanks for the compliment. Using my own comeback. Congrats. Now tell me which words were emotional.
“You have to recognize that sometimes someone might call you a name back.”
Back? Hmm? Anyway, by all means call me all the names you wish. As I said, it doesn't change the content or tenor of my replies to you. Anglo, Anglotina, Angolatino, Anglolatino.... be my guest. I'll reply to all and still out argue you every time.
“Anyway, if we go by your terms theres a bigger nation in my local highschool. I wonder if the goth kids are a nation too.
They'd at least be recognized by someone.”
I see you still don't know the definition of a nation. But if you wanna go with that broad definition, then you can only agree with me that the Falkland Islanders are a nation.
I knew you'd see the light eventually.
Heh, heh,
Mar 31st, 2014 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige... Hoisted by his own petard !!
80
Apr 01st, 2014 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah ...really
Are you seriously for real.....typical Tempest comment......
An Englishman is born in England...
A Scotsman is born in Scotland.....
A Welshman is born in Wales...
An immigrant can become a UK citizen....but not an Englishman....
Falklands is not a country ....is not a nation...ergo doesn't have a nationality....except....British....
In your desperation to say something.....anything....your stupidity shines through like a beacon.....
...don't know why it should bother you..... being neither English....or British....
BTW.....the term British Subject is passé.....
“All citizens of Commonwealth countries were British subjects until January 1983.
Since 1983, very few people have qualified as British subjects.”
Hahaha...you can't even call yourself a British Subject anymore.......Canadian....
Falklands are a nation.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stop making the same mistake that Vestige did.
I personally find Australians, Canadians, and North Americans who show a fierce concern with the international status of the Falklands as a nation strikingly peculiar. If the Falklanders are a nation, then how could the Inuit, the Navajo, or the Pitjantjatjara in Australia. Yet you never hear them talk about how their nations should find their way to statehood, or have a seat in UN bodies, or be able to vote on a referendum.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Their only comeback is “look troll, what about Argentina's Qom?”, but in the end they seem to think I or other readers didn't notice their artless prevarication and slinking. In the end the question why do the Navajo, Inuit, or Pitjantjatjara not deserve the same international representation remains waiting to be broached.
@64 Danyberger
Apr 01st, 2014 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Unlike in the UK Argies voters have ID with bio-metric details to identify them.”
So you're microchipped. As is my cat.
@70 Axel Arg
“On the other hand, you say that kirchnerism has had an agreessive posture in relation to the population from the islands, .... you omit the fact that the government from the islands, and the u. k., have always said that they are disposed to discuss with arg. about many issues, but not about the sovereingty, which is the main problem”
You seem to be saying that it's Ok for Argentina to be aggressive towards us because we don't want to discuss sovereignty. Well, a) it's not; b) you're hardly going to persuade us that way; c) the eyes of the world are on you, Axel, and they don't agree with you.
“what they actualy want, is arg.'s submission to their will, ”
In other words, signing a surrender. Argentina already did that.
“Our claim is a constitutional obligation”
Your constitution means nothing outside Argentina and has no impact on our rights to self determination and under the UN.
I would like a peaceful solution too, but not one that would infringe on our rights.
@86
Apr 01st, 2014 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think the current status satisfies all your requests.
Nostrils
Apr 01st, 2014 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Inuit, the Navajo and the Pitjantjatjara are nations. Being a nation does not qualify you for statehood. It does not preclude you being part of a state. It does not preclude other nations sharing the same government.
For the love of God look up the frickin definition before you start spitting on your keyboard.
Your emotional outbursts “love of God, frickin, spitting on your keyboard”, don't further your arguments.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 03:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ok, they are nations. Can you please provide international law where it actually states being a nation does not qualify you for statehood? Thank you.
And yet after saying this more than once on this thread you only now understand it.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your grasp of English isn't as high as you claim. Just because “being a nation does not qualify you for statehood”, that doesn't not mean it disqualifies you. States and nations do not have to align.
Just because a nation of people exists does not mean they are able or capable of becoming a state or nation-state. The Inuit in Nunavut might be able to transform themselves into a nation-state, however that doesn't mean that the Inuit elsewhere in Canada cease being part of the Inuit nation; they are just not part of the Inuit state.
The Falkland Islands are a nation within the state of the UK. Boundary with a boundary. One day those two boundaries will coincide and then the Falkland Islands will be a nation-state like Argentina. That concept seems to confuse Dany, A_Voice, Vestige and yourself.
Doesn't confuse me.
Oh I just noticed you changed your name again.
@yankeeboy
Apr 01st, 2014 - 05:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you really stupid or what?
All your links point to academic articles like this “ELECTORAL RULES AND CORRUPTION”, By Torsten Persson, Guido Tabellini, and Francesco Trebbi.
The only mention there about Argentina is that has a close ballot list (padrón electoral).
Look another of you link
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=A67F92A6D087D0080844916D0B9A5760.journals?fromPage=online&aid=331681
Nothing
Another of your articles...
“This article examines, from a comparative perspective, those electoral practices labelled as ‘corrupt’ in Latin America between 1830 and 1930” not even a mention about Arentina
Idiot you have to read the articles and find something credible at least.
Like I did with your corrupted electronic voting system where Programmer are paid by corrupted politicians in USAMEX to fraud the elections.
See it again crude testimony of the programmer involved in court.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M2AAigq0Fw
can you see why USAMEX is ruined now?
@85
Apr 01st, 2014 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well done for spelling Pitjantjatjara correctly. On the other hand there has never been a Pitjantjatjara ( or Eastern/Western Arrente, or Walpiri ) nation, nor is there one now. The 'nation' concept as applied to North American Indians doesn't work for Australian Aborigines. Very different people with a very different world views.
If they wanted to establish a nation for themselves I would support it. But how? And why? The first institution that established a limited self-government forAborigines - ATSIC - was a miserable failure. It lasted a mere 15 years ( 1990-2005 ) and was plagued by cronyism, corruption and it's final leader, Geoff Clark, was a rapist and embezzler. Plus they could never agree on anything.
The aborigines I knew, and lived with in Alice Springs, with few exceptions, had no idea how 'their' government really worked. Their identity was equally confused - stuck between the past and present. They lived lives of a kind of desperate 'existentialism by default'. Until they have a better idea who they are - now - and what they want - now - they are ill-prepared for nationhood.
@85
Apr 01st, 2014 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're missing the important difference regarding the Inuit, the Navajo, or the Pitjantjatjara nations, which is that there is no state now in the 21st century believes it has the right to take their homeland away, on the grounds that the state's officially appointed rapists, murderers, mutineers, and pirates were sent packing 2 centuries ago.
84
Apr 01st, 2014 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Next time you feel the need to correct me....
Read carefully what I have written.....
“Falklands is not a country ....is not a nation...ergo doesn't have a nationality....except....British....”
Falklands is “claimed” British Territory...
I'm sure you are referring to people....as a nation....
As far as the islanders are concerned...yes they are a nation...a nation of legal British Citizens, they have no other legal national identity....
They sold themselves to the UK and ended their future of growing into a nation separate and distinct from their multicultural roots....
...a quote springs to mind.....
“They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
The UK was no better than the Russians in Crimea.....dishing out UK Passports in 1983....
The Isle of Wight is also British Territory...138,000 an island with a nation of British Citizens....with a great degree of local government....
....I don't see a great difference.....
Well apart from the fact that the multicultural citizens of the Isle of Wight actually contribute to their defence by paying taxes to the UK Govt.....
As all British Citizens should.....
American Citizens no matter where they live in the world have to fill in a tax return to see if they are liable for US tax......
The privilege of having American Citizenship....
Seems fair to me.....
Go look up the defintion of nation.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0FAIL!
I think the title of the book seems to differ a lot from the actual content of it.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 095
Apr 01st, 2014 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0FAIL!
.....Look up the definition of Falklands.....;-))))
I'll start it...An Archipelago in the South Atlantic.......
@97 A_Mouth ....
Apr 01st, 2014 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0... obviously still hasn't grasped the difference between a nation and a country.
You'd Think a Scot in particular, even a purported one, would have a better handle on such a simple concept.
98. He can't read a map so how in the world could you expect him to understand simple concepts?
Apr 01st, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nunatsiavut
Apr 01st, 2014 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well I for one am glad we finally agreed that the falklands are not a nation. :)
Apr 01st, 2014 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0trollololololol.
“The Isle of Wight is also British Territory...138,000 an island with a nation of British Citizens....with a great degree of local government....”
Apr 01st, 2014 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That would only be possible if they looked after their own defence and forign policy, pretty sure they don't.
It's great when I hit on the factual truths of the matter the insults come rolling in....
Apr 01st, 2014 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 098
I grasp it fine.....a nation of Brits living in disputed territory......
Maybe you don't grasps the idea of a nation ruling itself....
Let me give you a the last verse from the unofficial anthem of Scotland.....
Those days are passed now
And in the past they must remain
But we can still rise now
And be a NATION again
That stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again
.....again implies whilst under British rule they are not a Nation....
102
I'm not following....what would be possible..?
AV- Sorry the Isle of Wight does not have internal self government from UK at all! It has a district council - like all districts in England which set local rates etc but that is all. It is very much just part of Hampshire- an English County -or province if you want it in Argentine speak.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands by comparison have their own elected assembly which sets ALL laws and taxes within the Islands in in the offshore economic zones,
and are an “Overseas Territory” of the UK.
ie we have internal self Govt, UK is responsible for ensuring good and open corruption free local internal Govt and Foreign Affairs and defence.
In an old fashioned “Colony” you did not have local elected internal self government - all the power came from the colonial master nation. We used to be in that bracket many years ago.
Falklands and UK have moved on since those old days - shame that Argentina would like to restore them over the Islands with ultimate rule from Buenos Aires against out wishes - now THAT would be good old fashioned empire COLONIALISM!
And before any silly folks come on saying we would let you have local autonomy- just what?
Our Govt Legal Language staying the same as now
Our Laws and Legal System staying the same as now
Our Political system staying the same as now and up to us to change it in future if we wish?
Our Currency and Banking system staying the same as we wish it to?
Our Flag staying the same? etc etc.
Now you take over and enforce a change against our wishes in any of those - and you are bad old Colonialists of the Empire era.
104
Apr 01st, 2014 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cake and eat it.....
Why would a British territory occupied by British citizens not want to integrate with Britain....
Nothing to do with then having to pay VAT and Council tax and contributing to the costs of their defence.....
There should be a price attached to British Citizenship the same as the US....
You just don't want to pay it.....
Which makes you a liability....
Irrelevant, but Isle of Wight is not part of Hampshire it's a County.....and it also has a flag.....
105 - All English counties have flags, what's your point?
Apr 01st, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@103
Apr 01st, 2014 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see you're still struggling. It's embarrassing to behold, so please let me help. The Scots are a nation. They live in a country called Scotland. Scotland is not a state.
With me so far? Let's try this:
Great Britain is not a nation. Great Britain is a country. Several different nations live there. Great Britain is also a state.
When a homogenous nation governs itself, that's typically referred to as a nation state. There are in face few nation states which are not multi-national.
Roy Williamson obviously didn't quite get it either, or perhaps he just had a rhythm pattern and a rhyming scheme to worry about. You'd have been better off asking pretty much any bona fide Scottish primary school kid, who could probably explain it to you too.
Or try maybe a native American, a Basque, a Catalan, a Kurd, a Uighur, a Breton. Maybe even a Swiss.
Think of a number - 106. That's the number of members of the United Nations that now recognise Kosovo as an independent nation. 106 is also the position that Argentina comes in the Global Corruption Index. Lol.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0107
Apr 01st, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know what nationality you are supposed to be...but you don't know much about the UK...that's for sure.....
Look at the list of sovereign countries in the world.....
You will not find Scotland...nor England...
let me save you some time....
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/states.htm#s
See the list of countries....what's missing.....
Also Great Britain is not a country...it also includes Ireland....which is a separate Country and Sovereign state....
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland...is the Sovereign State....
Educate yourself....you really are embarrassing.....
...next....
@109
Apr 01st, 2014 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's not a list of countries. It's a list of states. If you were paying attention earlier, you might have noticed I already said Scotland wasn't a state. Neither is England.
But at least you're making some progress. Perhaps next you might try asking somebody Irish whether they consider themselves to be part of Great Britain.
Im liking the “kel?ers” thing.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mysterious, mythical ?eople.
But not 'a' mysterious, mythical ?eople.
@111
Apr 01st, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps Argentina should not have done its utmost to attribute the islanders a distinct identity, if it intended afterwards to claim they don't have a distinct identity at all?
Now that's a mysterious ?eople, everything they do seems designed to achieve the opposite of what they want.
Great Britain includes Ireland? Oh dear, the Irish won't like that too much.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0110
Apr 01st, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is so....a list of countries at the top of the column....in plain English...Country
A country may also be the state....
I'll make it easy for you and all the other Johnny Foreigners.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
113
Well done knarfw....Hans never even noticed....I would like to say it was deliberate...but it wasn't, I meant to say the British Isles included Ireland but Great Britain doesn't even include Northern Ireland...it's added onto the end....The United Kingdom of GB+NI....
Now here's a tough one....the Isle of Man....Not EU...Not part of GB not even Commonwealth....
...and who cares what the Irish like....I think it's potatoes....and Semtex...
Today, the defence minister mr Hammond, stated in parliament that the British government in consultation with the royal navy, and uk ministers have this day set out the requirement and orders for the 2014 SDR, to be laid in may,
Apr 01st, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Therefore this government would like to inform this house that the royal navy will be receiving the following, he stated,
[The Official Authoritative Fleets (OAFF) ]
Steady state proposal
Keep ship and boat builds steady to sustain a minimum capability
Royal Navy
3 Queen Elizabeth class Aircraft Carriers
Queen Elizabeth Prince of Wales
Ark Royal/Duke of York
2 Albion class Landing Platform Dock Assault Ships
Albion Bulwark
1 Gleaner class Inshore Survey Motor Launch
1 Scott Oceanographic Survey Ship
6 Daring class AAW Destroyers
Daring Dauntless Diamond
Dragon Defender Duncan
6 Dido class AAW Destroyers (follow on evolved Darings)
Dido Delight Danae
Decoy Duchess Dunkirk
8 Leander class ASW Frigates (follow on evolved Dukes)
Leander Jupiter Galatea
Penelope Hermione
Minerva Sirus Cleopatra
8 Arethusa class ASW Frigates (follow on evolved Leanders)
Arethusa Argonaut Apollo Aurora
Andromeda Ajax Achilles Ariadne
4 Astute class SSNs
Astute Ambush
Artful Audacious
4 Avenger class SSNs (SF/UUV dock)
Avenger Armageddon Attack Active
4 Resolution class SSBNs (may replace Vanguard Class after SLEP)
Resolution Repulse Revenge Renown
4 Churchill class SSNs (follow on evolved Avengers)
Churchill Jellicoe Fisher Beatty
4 Nelson class SSNs (follow on evolved Churchills)
Nelson Raleigh Drake Blake
26 C3 Rothesay class FPV/MCM/Survey Sloops
Rothesay Lowestoft Brighton
Yarmouth Londonderry Rhyl
Berwick Falmouth Hastings
Whitby Tenby Blackpool
Eastbourne Torquay Scarborough
Weymouth Fowey Ramsgate
Poole Truro Lindisfarne
Newhaven Chichester Cromer
Mallaig Lerwick
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/10324/The-Official-Authoritative-Fantasy-Fleets-OAFF-Thread?page=2#.UzsAeMtwa3c
.
@114
Apr 01st, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It must be tough work being this obtuse.
The page you've given in support of your contention actually undermines it. It is entitled “Independent States of the World” and then “List of all Sovereign Nations”. Note the qualification “Sovereign”. Not all nations are “Sovereign”. Not all countries are “States”.
See also my second para in @110 regarding Ireland.
Wakey wakey.
All,
Apr 01st, 2014 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wikipedia will answer it for you, 114@
116
Apr 01st, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh for goodness sake...try the world Atlas.....
http://www.worldatlas.com/nations.htm
Did you read it....eh ....eh...?
There was even a special note for “special” people like you...
England..Wales..Scotland....not a recognised country....
Eat shit and like it......
Nope, better of with.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0United Kingdom
http://www.infoplease.com/country/united-kingdom.html
.
I'm laughing so hard right now.
Apr 01st, 2014 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still boring A_Voice, the person that will pull up anyone and everyone on the extremely fine points of enunciation and definition.....
and he can't get his head around the difference between a NATION and a STATE.
Just because people misuse the terms doesn't change the true meaning.
15 AVoice- How little you know!
Apr 01st, 2014 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Falkland Islanders pay taxes to their own Govt which maintains our roads,drains,services etc etc. Why should we pay towards those cost in and Uk Council or why should they pay towards ours? result is Neither side does!
Falkland Islands Govt- using Falkland Islander taxpayers money provides annual funds to British Forces Falklands in the form of Capital. Infrastructure
projects at Mount Pleasant - usually the supply and build costs of at least 2 extra houses a year for married accompanied posts and other projects.
Calculated budget in excess of £100,00 a year = £33 per person population.
3 Falkland Islands taxpayers fully fund the costs of out own Defence Force,dont have the budget figures at hand but I imagine a few hundred Thousand £s a year.
So you see we actually do make a chunky direct payment towards the cost of our defence.
In addition We pay lots of money to UK based contract workers and companies supplying goods and services to the Islands- most of those people pay tax to the UK Govt on the profits they make from their Falklands operations.
So on various ways- we actually contribute a fair amount each year to wards the cost of defence.
@118
Apr 01st, 2014 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Try again. But to save time before you do, try to grasp first the notion of qualifying adjectives (Hint: in this case, it's “independent”).
This may help you refrain in the future from posting examples which are not just irrelevant, but actively undermine your own argument.
122
Apr 01st, 2014 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What part of.....
Worldatlas.com
”Regarding England, Scotland and Wales, though all are widely considered individual countries, they are all still a part of the United Kingdom (UK), a recognized European country by the United Nations, United States, and others, and therefore included within the United Kingdom on our country list below. ”
didn't you understand...?
I understand that the the Argies will never 'own' the Falkland Islands.
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0What more is there to understand.?
The rest is just waffle.
So after all that, no one has been able disqualify that the Falkland Islands are a distinct nation.
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0A nation and a territory within the United Kingdom.
Not English. Not Scottish, Welsh or Irish.
And not Argentinean.
But Falkland Islander.
Distinctly different. And identifying as such.
Wrong...a nation of Brits.....
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tell me again what nationality are they.....begins with a B...7 letters....
Wow you really have forgotten how to use Google haven't you.
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Falkland Islanders are British.
So are the Welsh.
So are the English.
So are the Scottish.
So are the Irish of Northern Ireland.
They are all British. Their nationality is British.
That doesn't negate the existence of the English nation, the Scottish nation, the Welsh nation or the Irish nation.
Identity is more multifaceted that you are a only attempting to portray.
FAIL...... yet again!
It is perhaps not so easy to define what the islanders are. But it is very easy to define what the are NOT. They are NOT Argentinians. And they do NOT live in Argentina.
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed...lol
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0MONTY69. HONORIA.
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand that perhaps for you it's much easier to buy the demagogical posture which refers to the application of the right to self determination for this case, however, you must understand that this cause is too complicated and controversial, and it needs t be analized seriously.
Firstly, i want t say that this case is as painfull for you, as it it for me, and for many of us, i know that many of you love dating what the u. n.'s charter says in relation self determination and it's application, which is a partial truth, due to beyond that objetive fact, this cause has always been considered like a special case by the decolonization commitee from the u. n., where the case is analized every year, beside, if you investigate, you will know that public international right not always applies the right to self determination for all the cases, under any circunstance. For me, it would be very easy to say that the right to self determination is not applicable for this case, then, arg. and the u. k. should start a dialogue in order to find a solution for this conflict. However, i have never rejected totaly that posibility, i just say that it's hightly arguable, because of the objetive facts that i described in my comment. Beside, i have always said that only a rulling by the i. c. j. can say whether self determination is applicable or not, in fact. arg. suggested taking the case to an arbitration in 1884 and 1888, which was rejected by the u. k., but in 1947, britain manifested arg. that it would be disposed to discuss about the cases of the dependencies from the islands (south georgia and sandwhich) before the i. c. j., and it made an unilateral presentation, but it hadn't included the malvinas in that proposal. After that year, none of the two nations proposed again to take the case to an arbitration, in my opinion i think that perhaps both aren't sure of getting a positive result, if the case is analized at the court.
1884 and 18881884 and 18881884 and 18881884 and 18881884 and 1888
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
1884 and 18881884 and 18881884 and 18881884 and 18881884 and 1888
aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHGH
still,
it all ended in 1982 / full stop
AXEL ARG
Apr 02nd, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain doesn't need to take this to ICJ because it has exactly what it wants. Argentina has the sovereignty claim not the UK. The UK has what it wants.
As for self-determination, I hear the claim that is not applicable. Buy I have never ONCE ever seen proof of this claim.
Not once.
Ever.
The UN can call this case special, peculiar, different, unusual or whatever. However none of those words mean that self-determination does not apply.
Now I know that it is the norm for Argentineans to just keep repeating a lie in the hope that others will eventually believe it is the truth.
But it isn't. And I have called you out. So unless you can back up your claim, STOP repeating it.
No doubt he will come back with another research result..
Apr 03rd, 2014 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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