MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazilian coalition members want 'Lula back' for October's election
At least twenty members of Brazil's Lower House belonging to the ruling coalition have formally asked for the return of former president Lula da Silva as candidate for next October's election given 'the current economic situation of the country', which in practical terms means dumping Dilma Rousseff's re-election pretensions. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“I know that the words for public consumption say ”We need the strength of a leadership with experience and brilliance such as that of Lula da Silva“ ”
Apr 29th, 2014 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0But what I really mean is ...
“All together, you politicians 'We Want to get back on the gravy-train” !”
We experienced fantastic growth for Brasil under Lula. He left with 85 % popularity worldwide, and put Brasil on the map as a World Power.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Time for a firm, experienced hand at the helm, if you will. Lula is again my candidate for President. I back Lula !
Brazil isn't a world power.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0It can hardly manage being a regional one.
@3
Apr 29th, 2014 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil does not want to be power nothing. Brazil wants what is rightfully his.
@2 I see no sign of Lulu having been properly investigated for a number of corruption charges. Don't you have any rules against electing suspected criminals? Wouldn't it create a suspicion that everything Brazil did was criminal? Or corrupt? Or both? And “I didn't know” is prety favourite these days. I believe even Putin uses it.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0In a civilized country Lula would be in jail and have is U$2B repatriated to the State.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not a smart people
Maybe Lula will claim he had blackouts whenever corruption was going on around him? Actually, CFK could genuinely use that excuse.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, things get a little shaky and the knives come out for the commie terrorist that claimed she ”didn't know about the murder of the US Military Officer her cell killed in front of his wife and children”!
Apr 29th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well serve her right: she promised much in terms of “management” but it seems she was only as good as the bloke on top of her (:o) telling her what the policy was, including 20% off the top for him.
These cretins deserve Lula, I hope his ego overcomes his sense and they get him.
“Put Brazil on the World Stage” ha, ha, ha.
“In a civilized country Lula would be in jail and have is U$2B repatriated to the State.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not a smart people”
and in a civilized country blair and bush would be in jail too.
Chris
Apr 29th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe the US miltary officers should've stayed home.
Like you.
Paul is Think2 ( Stevie) rubbing off on you? How can you be so angry at such a young age?
Apr 29th, 2014 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it because you know in a few months you'll probably be fighting in the streets over the last can of beans?
Why would I be angry? You send military personnel, we send them back in a coffin. Why would I get mad?
Apr 29th, 2014 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, those were different times.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One of our Presidents pinning medals on Che Guevara. Tupamaros infiltrating the cities. And Americans were not unfortunately the only target
Carlos Marighella started things off with his mini-handbook, banned here, but published and distributed world-wide by the way in Berkeley, California, USA. 1n 1969, it started with Brasilian officers being targeted, then escalated onto the Americans.
In 1970, Nobuo Okuchi, Japanese consul general in Sāo Paulo, was kidnapped, while Curtis C. Cutter, U.S. consul in Porto Alegre, was wounded in the shoulder but escaped kidnapping. Also in 1970, Ehrenfried von Holleben, West German Ambassador, was kidnapped in Rio and one of his bodyguards was killed.
I believe that period is well behind us. Call me a Cretin if you will Chris, but Lula staff developed the economic plan of selling our natural resources, which continues today. And those funds go right back into fighting poverty, health-care plans, and developing a new middle class, that did not exist as large as it is 10 years ago.
I know Botinho, but why waste time explaining the obvious? It's way funnier to ridiculize their lack of knowledge and poor understanding...
Apr 29th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
12
Apr 29th, 2014 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You talk as if “you” and “your mates” fought honorably, and you are nothing more than a disgusting fraud behind a PC that delights on a terrorist attack on nothing more than a family.
And how many of your Uruguayan, Cuban and Nicaraguan friends that were in Tucuman have being sent home in coffins in the 60s an 70s ??
Stevie-
Apr 29th, 2014 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not a problem.
I'm not sure how many here have actually been to Brasil, let alone know much about Brasil's history, other than the Girl from Ipanema, Carmen Miranda films, or José Carioca cartoons.
In fact, just as going to Mecca is for the faithful, I would urge everyone here to try and see Brasil at least once in your life. ( I've worked in the KSA, and I'll take Brasil anytime ). See what is here for a few weeks and then try and figure us out.
I digress.
Under Lula, we paid off our IMF loan 2 years early, followed by a 10 Billion USD loan from us back to the IMF to help countries in need. So back to Lula's re-election !
I try and enlighten helpfully in the nicest possible way.
@13:
Apr 29th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, I call you a cretin. If something good happens during a president's mandate, this does not mean he should be praised for it. Most of the good things you have in mind can be easily traced back to the policies designed and implemented in the 1990s, when Lula was not yet in power. In fact, back then, he and his party tried their best to torpedo the Plano Real, the policy which stabilised the country after a long period of hyperinflation. Besides, he has never actually fought poverty. The Bolsa Família is aimed at creating a large class of manipulable welfare dependants. If Lula and his cronies had worked towards reforming labour and tax law, its beneficiaries would be EARNING at least as much as whatever they now receive as handouts.
@ 10 “No Free Energy” Stevie
Apr 29th, 2014 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But I AM home in Uruguay, unlike you, hypocrite!
@ 13 BOTINO
Please tell me how they are “fighting poverty”? Are they making more jobs so the poor can actually earn a living and have self respect OR are they using the “No Money Pepe” method of throwing money at these people who never worked at school and most certainly NEVER worked when they left it?
The former method is laudable and self-funding (eventually) the later is ridiculous, a waste of money and fomenting resentment in the hard working people who are paying taxes and have to fund this route to utter dependency.
Of course “No Free Energy” Stevie cannot understand this. Neither does he pay taxes in Uruguay or even live here.
6 yankeeboy
Apr 29th, 2014 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought civilised nations followed the “rule of law”, of which the “presumption of innocence” is part and parcel.
3 Anglotino
If you could overcome your personal prejudices, you would have discovered that Brazil was in 2011 ranked the seventh largest economy in the world by the Economist.
http://www.economist.com/node/18333018
19. We do and we would have certainly investigated someone who went into office poor and came out a MULTI-BILLIONAIRE.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that what you are asking?
Terence Hill
Apr 29th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Economic size does to equate to being a world power. That is an extremely facile and shallow understanding of power.
I don't have a personal prejudice. I was correcting a fallacy. One that is bandied about without thinking if it is true.
Italy's economy is 9th largest and pretty much equal to 8th largest Russia. I wouldn't call Italy a “world power”.
So there must be something more to power that economic size.
Perhaps if you could overcome your personal inadequacies, you would understand that.
17-ljordao -
Apr 29th, 2014 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ If something good happens during a president's mandate, this does not mean he should be praised for it.”
A remarkable statement. Usually what happens on the “watch ” of the current administration, is shared by the administration, including that President. Good or bad.
By your logic former President Fernando Collor apparently should be thanked for Lula’s accomplishments. Remember his wonderful freezing of the banks for a year to control hyperinflation ? I do, as my account was frozen. . Do you remember Varig ? It's demise began when it could not pay for it's service bills here in Brasil or abroad. No bail out.
“ In fact, back then, he and his party tried their best to torpedo the Plano Real, the policy which stabilised the country after a long period of hyperinflation. “
The Plano Real was created by former President Cardoso to control inflation. It didn’t work, and neither did that under former President Collor. Complete failures. Where one sees stability starting is under Lula, and continuing on with current President Dilma today.
“ The Bolsa Família is aimed at creating a large class of manipulable welfare dependents.”
This social welfare program which started under Lula is meant to feed, and clothe the poor, and uneducated, and pull them out of poverty. It didn’t exist before Lula. Unlike other 1st world countries, there was nothing.
This program is similar to Social welfare in the EU, UK, or North America, which include food benefits. Food stamps, by another name, paid for in taxes by the middle and upper class ( who complain just as they do in the UK ).
Without this program, what is the alternative when people are hungry ? Should they turn to back to crime ?
´Besides, he ( Lula ) has never actually fought poverty “
Another remarkable statement. Lula came from a very poor family. Do you mean to say that his decades of work in labour organizing did not address the subject of workers’ rights and poverty ?
Of course he did.
@ 22 BOTINHO
Apr 29th, 2014 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0““ The Bolsa Família is aimed at creating a large class of manipulable welfare dependents.”
AND
“Without this program, what is the alternative when people are hungry? Should they turn to back to crime?”
No-one wants children going hungry because their parents are lazy bastards. We have this exact problem in the UK but we are at last tackling it instead of throwing money at it.
My wife’s best friend has two daughters.
One is a manager in a multi-national business and has worked since leaving school and going to university to help get her degree, her parents could not afford to help her as you will see. She is married and lives in Surrey (not the midlands).
The other one, who is two years older, has NEVER worked since she left school. Her first boyfriend got her pregnant and then was off on his toes when it became apparent that she saw him as a meal ticket. She then married a much older man, got pregnant and had a child who now has learning difficulties, he left her. At the age of 30 she got pregnant by a lad of 18 and he scarpered when he saw what his life would be. She was on the dole all this time of course but her parents had to cloth the children and take them all on holidays because being a smoker, she couldn’t afford it.
Then along comes her nemesis in the form of a warning notice that as the youngest child was now coming to school age she had to find herself a job or undertake training AND PASS THE TESTS to keep her benefits. Panic set in but she had to go into training or she could see destitution looming. After six months of computer operator training she was put into a company for practical training as a data input clerk. She absolutely loved it! She has made friends with the other girls and has self esteem at last and the company have been so impressed that they have given her a job.
All this takes effort on the part of the authorities but it has paid for itself in this case. Better than throwing money at it, eh?
Chris-
Apr 29th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is indeed commendable. And I support such efforts.
And there is clearly wealth enough here in Brasil to focus on similar programs. Keep in mind though that Brasil is emerging fast from the times of a rich minority and a poor majority. How long have your programs in the UK been in force ?
Just a decade ago here there was no social service, nor worker's compensation, etc.
Admittedly, like infrastructure, and accountability in higher office, we are just beginning.
@22 having read some of your previous posts, am surprised to see you state that “”“The Plano Real that was created by former President Cardoso to control inflation, didn't work”“”.......It didn't work ??? it was the successful Plano Real that created conditions for Brazil to go ahead, free of inflation...Regardless of your somewhat strange position on this, I would like to state mine :: I hate the PT, Lula included. His 1st mandate was considered a success only because he did not screw around - too much - with the structure FHC left. Lula's second mandate, which could have been a success had he taken REAL advantage of his popularity to do something good for Brazil, but instead he and his cronies chose to get rich...and try to perpetuate themselves in power, for the sake of power ...the people were there only to be manipulated to the PT's favour. The PT policies under Dilma, have only proved that they are incompetent, and now that the wave they were surfing on has turned into a puddle, they haven't the faintest idea what to do, other than invest heavily in propaganda, telling the ignorant masses the lies they like to hear....Maybe Dilma should win the elections, so that when Brazil implodes, it will be on their watch.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22:
Apr 29th, 2014 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A remarkable statement.” No, the principle I used is just common sense. (Did nobody tell you that simultaneity is not causality?)
“By your logic former President Fernando Collor apparently should be thanked for Lula’s accomplishments.” This is a ridiculous misinterpretation. You know full well that I am talking about the two consecutive mandates of Fernando Henrique Cardoso.
“The Plano Real was created by former President Cardoso to control inflation. It didn’t work.” No, the Plano Real did work. This is indisputable, which makes you either a liar or an ignoramus.
“This program is similar to Social welfare in the EU, UK, or North America, which include food benefits.” What makes you think that the latter deserve to be emulated?
“Just a decade ago here there was no social service, nor worker's compensation, etc.” Bullshit. These benefits exist since the 1930s, when Getúlio Vargas came to power.
I think this is a struggle between the conservatives and the left wing. The conservatives dont want to invest monney in the poors becouse they consider they are lazy, and giving money freely makes them waste it. What is implemented in the uk is perfect for an organized society and economically wealthy, like the uk. For people that is excluded for generations from the system, like happens in Brasil or Argentina. That people has to struggle 10 times more than the average middle class person only to go to school. They are more vulnerable to drugs, alcohol, abuse, violence in the core of its families, etc.
Apr 30th, 2014 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've heard many times speaches of Lula, and unfortunatelly, there is not many polititians as intelligent and enlightenes as him that knows the backround of Brasil or South America.
Being liberal, socialist, doesnt matter. We all think that eliminating poverty is the main goal of any government. The problem is how?. Can the liberals asure jobs for all the poorest citizens?. Did Cardozo assured a job for every brasilian that had no food on their table?.
Nevertheless, Cardozo was not a bad government, viewed from across the frontier. But Lula was inspirational. To pity the rest of the government was not as prepared as him.
About corruption. There are corruption levels in all our governments with Lula, Kirchner, even Cameron or Blair. But i still hope for a greater latin american change of mind and efforts to end this calamity of continual corruption.
21 Anglotino
Apr 30th, 2014 - 02:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0No one has stated that Brazil is a world power, I was simply countering your comment that “It can hardly manage being a regional one.” The only fallacy I can see is your trite efforts to denigrate Brazil.
20 yankeeboy
If Lula had acted as you state, the political reactionaries here would have nailed him. It is mainly this element where the most corruption emanates from. So in the interests of fair-play I prefer to give the guy the benefit doubt. So if you have something of substance to proffer against him, from a reliable source, then please enlighten us. As at the end of the day opinions are like derrières, everyone's got one, but without proof it's absolutely meaningless.
Ola -
Apr 30th, 2014 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some state they hate the current ruling party, the PT. That is their choice.
Others laude a former President of ours during the WWII period who was nothing more than a Dictator with fascist traits that the American President FDR had to exert pressure on from joining the Axis powers..
If that type of President was preferred to those democratically elected, that too is past history and you are entitled to your opinion.
Corruption and personal enrichment in government has also been brought up in this discussion, and others. Brasil is viewed by some here as the worst possible example, DESPITE the recent mensalão payoff and enrichment scandal trials and successful convictions, which have taken place under a PT administration. Shocking !
Shall we go around the room ?
Russia:
Putin has only ever worked for the Russian State. His pay should have been modest all these years. Yet one of his mansions was recently remodeled by a German architectural firm.
Does anyone really think that he will retire on a Russian State pension ?
Germany:
Have you seen former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder recently ? He’s doing quite well for himself on the Gazprom board of directors. Monday he was photographed hugging Putin in St. Petersburg at his Birthday party
UK:
Tony Blair. Ha ! Need I say more ?
USA:
How does exactly a former Washington DC policeman become a millionaire like the good Senator from Nevada, USA Harry Reid ? Or an impeached former President from Arkansas ?
I see enrichment that clearly started in office, yet I see no corruption trials.
I think some either expect too much from Latin America, or are driven to prefer the doom and gloom side of life regarding South and Central America.
Brazil is fast going down the gurglar presently, current government has got no answers. Can't see a way out of the big hole they are now down in the medium term, it will be a struggle for whatever party wins the next election. PT probably can't keep going to the same extent with same old same old after getting lucky on a commodity streak over the last few years and lining their pockets, yet the leopard is unlikely to changes its spots. If there is another winning party then they will have to peel back the layers of entrenched people and schemes that have ingrained themselves within the current Government systems. Fantastic future ahead.....
Apr 30th, 2014 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@29:
Apr 30th, 2014 - 07:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Brasil is viewed by some here as the worst possible example, DESPITE the recent mensalão payoff and enrichment scandal trials and successful convictions, which have taken place under a PT administration.” Once more, you fail to distinguish simultaneity from causality. Lula and his party have tried their best to nullify these trials altogether, and they are yet to recant the morally degenerate view that the whole affair was just a political manoeuvre against them.
“Others laude a former President of ours during the WWII period who was nothing more than a Dictator with fascist traits that the American President FDR had to exert pressure on from joining the Axis powers.” You lack either reading skills or intellectual honesty. Nowhere have I praised Getúlio Vargas, whom I consider a scumbag of the same kind and magnitude as Lula. I simply corrected your outrageously inaccurate statement about the history of social security in Brazil.
“Some state they hate the current ruling party, the PT. That is their choice.” No, for decent and well-informed Brazilians, that is not a choice, but a duty.
Son, I pity you. Please try to learn something from the responses you have received.
ljordao -
Apr 30th, 2014 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for your comments and clarifications.
Of course those indicted in the trials tried to use any legal tactic or excuse to remove themselves from the process which ultimately found them guilty. That is the nature of politics and power, and Brasil is hardly alone in that experience.
A close look at the American President Nixon in the Watergate hearings illustrates the same tactic. Guilty from start, on tape and in many other documents, and using any amount of money and legal appointments to subvert the ultimate justice he faced. With the promise of certain impeachment, he resigns from office, as his subordinates are allowed to fall on the sword and serve time in US Federal prison.
20 days later he is pardoned for all crimes by his appointed successor, President Ford.
Compare this to Brasil.
UNLIKE Watergate, there was no pardon 20 days later from the newly appointed President Ford.
Dilma,, although a fairly recent PT member, remained and stood by the verdicts handed down from the courts. In fact she assured the courts that the guilty did time in prison and not at home by the pool as many had requested.
I see we share some common ground regarding Vargas, and others of his character. I'll leave it at that.
I would urge you to re-read my comments regarding the PT. It was directed at many of you in this forum, not the average citizen of Brasil, who usually knows better. You are no doubt aware that voting is compulsory in Brasil, unlike North America and some countries in Europe.
I appreciate your pity, and the other invectives used but I stand by my convictions as a supporter of Lula and his staff and what he accomplished for us in Brasil. And that includes a mention in prayer for China continuing to purchase our resources this past decade.
I assume by your paternal mention of Son that you are from the Southern region of your country. No harm taken as they say in your country, but I am probably well your senior , so I take it in stride.
Botinho friend, I want to tell you that “ljordão” “ChrisR” and “Jack Bauer” are the same person. This is a sick and unprincipled person who does not deserve our time.
Apr 30th, 2014 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Other than it's wonderful fighters, I don't know that much about Brazil, so I appreciate much of the interesting information in the above posts.
Apr 30th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@32 BOTINHO
Your manners are impeccable. Long may you contribute.
@33 Brasileiro
They are not the same individual. I say this is in all sincerity.
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/04/29/brazilian-coalition-members-want-lula-back-for-october-s-election#comment323277: Brazil's size alone makes it a world power.
Apr 30th, 2014 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 Liberato : The struggle you refer to is NOT between conservatives (center of the political spectrum) and the left ; it has become a struggle to avoid that Brazil become a one-party country, where the present government's only interest is to remain in power....once, and IF that happens, who do they need to answer to ? NO ONE, except themselves. This is not so much an ideological issue, but one of power, where the so-called “fighter for the poor” (Lula, in case you didn't catch on) is now one of Brazil's richest men....from a pauper to billionaire after 2 presidential mandates ??? Something really stinks . As to your idea that any government other than the PT's, would not want to invest in the poor is a fallacy....the various social handouts already existed before Lula became President, the only difference is that before, you had to comply with certain obligations to qualify, o'wise it would become one big handout festival...when Lula came to be he simply did away with the need to qualify for the various programmes, and decided that everyone who was getting any of the benefits, would immediately qualify for all of them...thus the 'bolsa familia'.
Apr 30th, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having heard Lula's speeches, AND liked them, not to mention that you think he's intelligent (in the true sense), doesn't say much for your level of intellect. To keep it short, Lula at one time or another may have had the intention of improving the lot of the workers, but once in power (as a Congressman), his ambition became clear ...his sole objective was to guarantee a very comfortable future for himself and his family, and get revenge against the 'elite', which ironically, he is now part of...
To 'TRY' to eliminate poverty through eternal handouts won't succeed....it'll backfire...the only way to social progress is through education, not one of the PT's strong points. Instead, their goal is to keep the people dependent on them, thus controlling them easily.
@32:
Apr 30th, 2014 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I assume by your paternal mention of Son that you are from the Southern region of your country. No harm taken as they say in your country, but I am probably well your senior , so I take it in stride.” This is cute. What do you think my country is?
@9 Very old and tired. In your skewed “life”, perhaps we should have put Roosevelt and Churchill in prison. But then, I'm glad Hussein and his sons are dead. I feel the same about Gaddafi and his brood. I wouldn't have a moment's hesitation in putting a bullet through the heads of most of the leaders of latam.
Apr 30th, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 You couldn't “send” anything. All latams run! Current record is held by argie “troops”. 4 miles in 3 minutes.
@24 “Emerging” you say. With the violence of Brazil? How many “visitors” are safe? If you “gave” me tickets for every World Cup game and every event in the Olympics, I wouldn't go. I'd give 'em to someone I really hated. And how long have the UK's current programmes been in place? About 2 years.
@35 Joke. Dick.
The only betrayal of our government is to not have developed the atomic bomb.
Apr 30th, 2014 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But of course that has already been developed and are in stock waiting to be used.
And I must have one for each Anglosphere city!
@ 33 Brasso
Apr 30th, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don’t be an absolute moron for once.
I am who I am, and not a puppet, nor do I have multiple personas like you.
Bring back the intelligent version FFS, the guy who can string a reasoned argument and no stupid videos either.
@ 35 Hepatitis
“Brazil's size alone makes it a world power.”
What a moronic statement. Brazil’s size just makes it big.
It’s like saying the size of someone’s mouth makes the sounds more intelligent, so if I were you I would have your mouth enlarged, it would need to be the size of the Grand Canyon just to make you semi-intelligent.
@28 T.Hill : yr statement “If Lula had acted as you state, the political reactionaries here would have nailed him”......It is notorious that Lula is corrupt and responsible for setting in motion the biggest corruption scheme in Brazilian history. Also notorious is that he - and Dilma - have appointed more than half of the judges to the Supreme Court (STF), with the obvious intention of obtaining favourable sentences for any politicians of the PT, accused and tried for stealing public funds ...example : The “mensalão”...look at the lenient sentences handed out to Dirceu, Genuíno...5 to 7 years , in “regime semi-aberto”, while non-'petistas', such as Marcos Valério, got 40 years, “reclusão”...if a double standard was ever applied, there you have it. The ' official' mentor' of the scheme, José Dirceu, got off practically scott-free, while the poor buggar who just operated the mechanics of the payments to the corrupt politicians, got 40 years. VERY FAIR INDEED... And Lula, who approved it all, is still around to steal more.
Apr 30th, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@29 Botinho : If you really believe that the convictions in the “mensalão” trial, were SUCCESSFUL, I can only agree with you if you mean they were SUCCESSFUL in the opinion of the 'petistas', due to the lenient sentences handed down to the criminals of the PT...I mean, you gotta be joking, 5 to 7 years in ”regime semi-aberto' is no more than a rap on the knuckles.
You must have read a few months ago, about the rebellion within certain ranks of the Receita Federal, that were inclined to investigate Lula's and his son's recently-acquired fortunes....Lula tried to get Dilma to get it swept under the carpet, but she, surprisingly , and sensibly, declined to intervene on Lula's behalf...Now, ask yourself, if he didn't steal, what is he afraid of ??
@33 Brasileiro, yr insinuation is wrong. While I respect ljordao & ChrisR, they are not me.
@39 again, you are hilarious ...and an asshole..
@41
Apr 30th, 2014 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are not as well educated. Where is “VSF Travecão”?
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/04/29/brazilian-coalition-members-want-lula-back-for-october-s-election#comment323293: If standard security arrangements were in place it is doubtful that Dilma would not have known about any military action taken by her organization.
May 01st, 2014 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0But, in any case, the point is mute. Here are the several declassified documents detailing the US's involvement with the Brazilian Junta of 1964:
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/04/29/brazilian-coalition-members-want-lula-back-for-october-s-election#comment323293:
If the situation had been reversed and Brazil had attacked the US in support of a military junta in the same manner then I would like to think that at least one American patriot would undertake resistance action against Brazilian officials - military or otherwise. In fact I would hope to be part of that resistance myself.
Whatever the nature of Dilma's involvement in the attack upon a US Military official she was a member of the democratic resistance and is a Brazilian and American patriot.
Very beautiful “pensamento”. I love you. My home, your home!
May 01st, 2014 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0The idea that Lula would, or could , do any better than Dilma, is completely flawed. Although the flies may change, the sh*t would still be the same. One has to realize that The PT's government programme does NOT contemplate progress through the creation of a decent infrastructure (education, public health, roads, ports, popular housing, urban transport, public security etc), but rather by throwing money at the poor through innumerable handouts, keeping them happy but dependent, with the sole objective of manipulating them to stay in power. In fact, while obviously a smart, unscrupulous politician, Lula never studied and doesn't know the first thing about administering a country, far less one full of problems like Brazil. If he did, and with the popular support he has, he could perform miracles if he appointed competent people for high government posts....but unfortunately his objective is quite different, and has little to do with the people, other than using them to achieve his dark goals.
May 01st, 2014 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the progress that Lula made to Brasil are unquestionable. To those that thinks he was a corrupt still have to prove it. Never before was Brasil so close to become a world power than now.
May 03rd, 2014 - 02:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0The brasilian determination to fight poverty in the favelas its a success and their dreams of become a world power are inevitable at the eyes of everyone.
And with all the oil they have found, they have a brilliant future ahead for themselves and their development.
Except in futbol soccer, that we are going to kick their ass on brasilian land.
@46:
May 03rd, 2014 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are dead wrong. If you want to know what really happened in Brazil between January 2003 and December 2012, you should read this book: http://www.amazon.com.br/D%C3%A9cada-Perdida-Marco-Antonio-Villa-ebook/dp/B00H1ZJXWI. Marco Antonio Villa, the most lucid of contemporary Brazilian historians, carefully debunks the myth of Lula as a fearless crusader for social justice. So read it, and wake up. Besides, Petrobras is now on its knees: http://www.amazon.com.br/D%C3%A9cada-Perdida-Marco-Antonio-Villa-ebook/dp/B00H1ZJXWI. Under Dilma's management, its future is bleak.
#46 Jack, a good and accurate posting.
May 03rd, 2014 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@48:
May 04th, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jack's post is 45, not 46.
@48 Thanks Geoff.
May 04th, 2014 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@46 Liberato. It is obvious you have never lived in , nor do live in Brazil. Let it be known that the PT, when it comes down to producing political propaganda, showing how wonderful Brazil is, is as good as the Nazis were. Anybody with half a brain in this country, and who is not feeding off other people's taxes, is well aware that the PT is all for show....to the poor, who just lap it up, as long as they get their handout every month.
When you talk of progress, I ask you “what progress” ? the poor people have learned to live with the handouts, and if tomorrow the handouts had to be stopped for any reason (which is highly unlikely), the poor that are now defined (by the PT) as “middle-class”, would simply go back to being wretched and poor...but they have been well trained (by the PT) to protest (in an effort to destabilize the State governments where they do not “rule” ), so you can be sure that there would be even more social unrest than there is now.
As to Lula being corrupt, nobody doubts it, and there IS proof - the problem is that the PT 's machine is very effective when it comes down to blocking any investigation into their highly suspicious activities, be it by Congress, or even, to a far lesser extent, by the Federal Police.
Brazil's economic indices definitely give one the impression that Brazil is on the right track, but one thing that does not show up is how behind Brazil is when it comes down to the living standards of the great majority of the populatiuon....living in precarious housing, without running water, no sewage collection, prone to all kinds of diseases long been exterminated in most countries, lamentable public health, absolutely no security whatsoever....just the fact that Brazil's prison population exceeds 500,000 says quite a bit, not to mention the 50 or 60 murders per week in the large cities.....If you lived here, you wouldn't be so ready to praise Lula and the PT.
@50:
May 05th, 2014 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0That is a very good post.
@51 tks ljordao....it's hard to educate the ignoramus' who don't know the first thing about Brazil, and that includes the usually ignorant ”petistas'.
May 05th, 2014 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hepatia
May 06th, 2014 - 02:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil's size does not make it a world power.
Your claim is as farcical as pretty much every claim you make on here.
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/04/29/brazilian-coalition-members-want-lula-back-for-october-s-election#comment324456: The world is changing. And I do appreciate that this induces feelings of anxiety within you.
May 06th, 2014 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@54:
May 06th, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, those who prize individual freedom and the rule of law are anxious. Psychopaths and idiots are the ones jumping with joy.
Once again more empty words on Brasil and Latin America from the “ Doom and Gloom ” Gringos.
May 06th, 2014 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hepatia
May 06th, 2014 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The world may be changing.
Still doesn't make Brazil a world power.
@56:
May 06th, 2014 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Son, I am not a “gringo”. I was born and raised in Rio de Janeiro, where I still live. (Humaitá is my neighbourhood.) Does this blow your mind?
ljordao, Recently I've been surprised - negatively - by the posture adopted by Botinho @56....Instead of having to read posts of the level of a complete screw-up like the Brasileiro , which need to improve one hell of a lot, just to be intelligible, why don't those who blindly defend Brazil's Federal Government, come up with some positive information of the PT's so-called accomplishments. After mentioning the “Bolsa Familia”, a handout which already existed in several other, more restrictive forms (one had to qualify for certain benefits....today, no more) before the PT took power, what's left ?? Are you going to tell me it's the enormous and well paved federal highway system, public health as good as the 1st world's - according to Lula that is, the efficient educational system, zero crime rate, the elimination of drugs, the popular housing system that has reduced the housing deficit to zero, no more smelly shantytowns without running water , or without, sewage , the beautiful big airports, the efficient seaports , the beautiful big urban parks that you can frequent without fear of getting mugged, the efficient urban transport system...I mean, after the PT , what does Brazil need to do ??? ah, yes, let's not forget they had to put the army in the streets to maintain a resemblance of security in Rio during the world cup......the US$ 30 odd billion spent on the stadiums and corruption were just lying in the till, totally superfluous and waiting to be spent irresponsibly....Brazil is SO rich it can boast being in the 10 top economies in the world....perhaps, but the standard of living of the majority of the population is below critcism....besides the weather (a bit screwed-up, of late) , the women and 'caiprinhas', what's left that is equivalent to the first world ?....C'mon, I am waiting , you blind “petistas”....
May 06th, 2014 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Jack Bauer, you do fine clearly having a one-way conversation with ljordao.
May 07th, 2014 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You both speak the same language, claiming in the best Colonial master tone that it “ is hard to educate, ” which is ill-advised and unfriendly to all Brasilian:
“ Ignoramus ”
“ psychopaths ”
“ ignorant petistas ” ( meaning anyone who supports the PT ).
“ dead wrong ”
“ the future is bleak ”
and finally,
the dramatic “ the dark goals ” referring to our former President Lula.
All doom and gloom.
So why are you here ?
@60:
May 07th, 2014 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is your question a new version of “Brasil, ame-o ou deixe-o”?
As many gringos are, you two seem so frustrated with the popular elections process here in Brasil.
May 07th, 2014 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0It has to be your sage wisdom, or as you say “ the future is bleak. ”
Many of us just do not share your opinion, or decry that the end is near. In Brasil we are learning by the mistakes other countries have made, and will go our own way.
Botinho,
May 07th, 2014 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have posted the things that Jack is saying for years.
He is by no means alone in viewing these things the way he does.
In fact, when I look elsewhere (Veja, The Economist, The Financial Times, the Washington Post, NYT, etc., I see many, many people offering serious, heartfelt comment - all criticising Lula, Dilma and PT.
These are not people from across the world that hate L, D and PT;
they just really, really want something a lot better for Brasil.
It starts with honesty.
@62:
May 07th, 2014 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In a healthy democracy, many important questions are not decided by voting. This video shows why the indefinite expansion of majority rule is a terrible idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX0_ZvcVBco. If you think it is too crude, you should take a careful look at the public choice literature, which develops in great detail Benjamin Franklin's insight that democracy is seriously threatened when people realise they can vote themselves more money. Brazil is veering dangerously close to a mobocracy.
Botinho @60, you accuse me of “ clearly having a one-way conversation with ljordao”.....hardly, my post is addressed to all who care to read it, and I'm glad YOU did. Only problem is that when challenged to back up the PT's accomplishments, the 'petistas“ never do. Other than the ”bolsa família“, a concept inspired on previous governments accomplishments, you can't name anything that has really taken Brazil forward in a SUSTAINABLE fashion, on a solid foundation.....The idea that the up and coming E, D and C socio-economic classes into the ”middle class“ is hellishly far-fetched, and built like a house of cards.
May 07th, 2014 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know that the PT does not like to face reality, so they fantasize it and make sure the poor lap it up. If I told any lies in my #59, please point them out...But please, as you believe I'm wrong, then tell me what OTHER ”good” the PT has done for Brazil. Don't you think Brazil deserves a government that truly has the interest of the people at heart ? Or, do you like being fooled ?? Waiting patiently.
ChrisR-
May 07th, 2014 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I appreciate your thoughtful comments.
Brasil chooses her own course, as you know, and is trying to avoid the mistakes that have been seen in other nations in North America, Europe, Africa, and Asia. Quite frankly the political perception here of the US at the moment is not good, and in many cases resented highly.
Clearly, there have been, and will be errors made by us along the way. And political opportunities will be taken advantage of, just as they are elsewhere in the world. But the various benchmarks in what appears to be cited US history, stated by others, may in fact not actually apply to Brasil.
If we had followed the US model, we too would have been victims of the 2008 US and European financial crises. Yet we were not, due to our own government's foresight and policies. I travel frequently and have seen this first hand in North America and the UK: Shops and businesses closed, with a large amount of people out of work.
Most of us in Brasil remain surprised that as if in opposition to the 2008 economic crises, Brasilian businesses have flourished, people have more, the distribution of food logistics have increased, and that healthcare is now available in regions that previously had none. The Economist you mention, one of several publications we do read here, acknowledges that fact. All accomplished in the last decade, and we are proud of that fact.
Frankly, I look to other nations such as Sweden, Switzerland, Estonia, and Denmark for innovation in government, rather than being reminded by the frustrated “hall monitors” that the US is somehow the one and only, virginal, perfect ideal for Brasil to follow as a model, and if we don't curb our ways, the fiery end is coming. No, it doesn't work for us that way, no matter how many Amazon books and famous American person quotes there are.
@ 66 BOTINHO
May 08th, 2014 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is merit in what you write but I always look at where the source of a countries wealth lies before concluding whether they are going to grow or not and this includes the potential of its citizens.
This is where it becomes very difficult with Brazil. When I originally decided to spread my investments outside of Uruguay my first country I looked at was Brazil and it wasn’t pretty. Mantega is, without doubt, the biggest liar outside of the Argentine government BUT, the real problem is he does not see anything wrong with lying through his teeth “for his country” no doubt. The damage to investor confidence done by this idiot is immense and partly the reason why Dilma is having to “entice” investors back with adjusting the economy to suit big business.
So many missed opportunities to bring on all the people of Brazil have been made: where are the schools to educate your future leaders, where are the basic health professionals to improve the health of the nation? We all know where, don’t we, corrupt politicians over the decades and now the WC and Olympics. Another one of Lula’s little legacies along with corruption that still pervades all levels of the government and politics in general.
Quite how Sweden, Switzerland and Denmark (I know nothing of Estonia) can be models for Brazil is beyond me. Not only are they light years ahead of Brazil, they still have their own problems.
I am most certainly not promoting the US, the UK and especially the EU as anything Brazil should emulate BUT I am adamant that Brazil needs to break the corruption once and for all and start providing its citizens with basic health and education. THAT is the biggest challenge Brazil faces and they should stop this “First World” nonsense until it has beaten it.
@66 Botinho : I am not advocating that Brazil should follow any particular model set by some other country, be it the US of A or any country in Europe. What I think Brazil should do, is to learn from other countries' experiences, those which have been successful in implementing certain policies, as well as rejecting those that have obviously failed...and also, that these policies need to be adapted to suit Brazil's particular characteristics, as no two countries are identical. But, for even this to succeed, it is essential that corruption be reduced to a minimum...I say a 'minimum', because unfortunately no country is immune from such a disgusting disease, and those that get contaminated should be eliminated from public life and go to jail.
May 08th, 2014 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And, now that you know my position, you can see why I blast the PT.....their main policy is to remain in power, at any cost, even if it means fooling the population into believing that they are happy....a sad state of affairs. Brazil could be so far ahead of it's present situation if things happened quicker (less red tape, less corruption), and in the right direction. I have invested quite a bit of my life, and money, in Brazil, that's why I'm not prepared to give up on it.
“Frankly, I look to other nations such as Sweden, Switzerland, Estonia, and Denmark for innovation in government, rather than being reminded by the frustrated “hall monitors” that the US is somehow the one and only, virginal, perfect ideal for Brasil to follow as a model, and if we don't curb our ways, the fiery end is coming. No, it doesn't work for us that way, no matter how many Amazon books and famous American person quotes there are.” Nobody here has assigned this status to the United States. I myself am fully aware of the 2008 crisis, but I also know that its cause was the high level of economic interventionism Latin America has always taken for granted. In other words, the “gringos” messed up because they chose to do things our way. They are not immune to idiocy.
May 08th, 2014 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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