MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Uruguay displaces Argentina as the main supplier of milk to Brazil
Uruguay's dairy industry has overtaken Argentina as the main supplier of milk to Brazil, according to Globo Rural, a Brazilian site which specializes in farming news. “Brazil's imports were globally 60% Argentine milk and the rest, 40% from Uruguay, but now Uruguay has moved to over 50%, meaning Argentina is losing ground in Latam largest economy and leading Mercosur partner”, Anibal Schaller manager of the Milk Industry Center, admitted to Globo Rural. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesQuotas!
May 05th, 2014 - 08:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Little Uruguay BEATING stupid Argentina in the supply of milk to Brazil.
May 05th, 2014 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0GREAT!
I can hear TMBOA screaming from here, it's only 300Km to BsAs!
Why doesn't Uruguay ship its milk to China and Venezuela too if they can get better money for it there?
May 05th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0The government has simply butchered the Argentina agro farming sector in the last decade.... All the evidence and statistics that has being coming out from the Farming Unions (the same ones that revolted in 2008) in the last few days is horrific.
May 05th, 2014 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Appart from soy bean increase all the rest of farming production chains have being destroyed in perhaps the best decade for commodities in a century. Since 2003 there is....
30% less wheat
34% less sunflower
10% less beef. Argentina was the 3rd world largest beef exporter in 2005. Now Argentina is in the 11th place
125 meat packers closed in the counrty
Milk production has being stagnant and more concentrated
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1685809-soja-campo
Only soy bean markets have not being fiddled with grew in production, but taxed severly
The State literally takes over 75% to 86% of Agro incomes of the farmers
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1685809-soja-campo
Completaly insane.
@4 CD
May 05th, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I completely agree. It is insane to put all of your eggs in one basket.
And if there is a bad soy harvest what then for the people of Argentina?
I also didn't realise that the state takes so much from the farmers, I wonder how the farmers manage to continue in that kind of environment.
It's a pity because Argentina does have a lot to offer, and it's beef used to be prized around the world.
Don't forget that farmers also look to grow the most valuable crops on their land
May 05th, 2014 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 3 Bush pilot. Uruguay does export a lot of milk products and indeed dairy livestock to Venezuela and probably could export more
May 05th, 2014 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But there is a small matter of getting paid and at what rate to the dollar!
Having said that we do import Venezuelan crude at advantageous prices, not that us consumers at the pump would notice as we have the most expensive diesel and petrol in SA, if not in the world
@1 Argentina never complies with the quotas allocated to them- the Hilton beef quota to the EU being but one example and in spite of this screams for higher quotas and also prevents Uruguay from increasing their quota with which they have always fulfilled.
It's OK not a big problem, Argentina is no longer a world agricultural exporter powerhouse. That was predictable because the country is past its prime and no longer has the agricultural prowess and productivity of decades past.
May 05th, 2014 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with every criticism of CFK's government and policies, but this is completely exagerated. Brasil is not a great importer of milk, neither from Uruguay nor from Argentina. That's the problem with the Anti-Argentine stand of Mercopress, they hipervalorize everything that can put Argentina down.
May 05th, 2014 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 08. How odd you are cheering your continued descent into poverty.
May 05th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 09. Stating a fact is not putting Argentina down. Facts are not put downs. Stop being so sensitive and do something about it rather than putting up with successive gov'ts that have made you poorer and dumber with every year.
@10
May 05th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not getting poorer. Don't worry about me.
Only a moron denies that the flow of history exists. Morons like you who think the USA will remain “for a thousand years”.
Funny how every single other nation or power that ever thought that no longer exists.
Argentina had a good run but like everything that rises it falls. It's history, nothing more nothing less.
The difference is that despite heavy taxes on soy bean the government didn't ever intervine the markets like they did with beef,wheat, dairy and others.
May 05th, 2014 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1685810-al-final-el-gobierno-opto-por-el-yuyo
About this article perhaps the gov't only wants the quotas to remain in place because they dont want to admit they have losed the markets due to their statist and populist policies...
Toby Argentina's agro sector can pull the country out again of the crisis and feed up to 400 MM people at its maximum potential, but only with the correct policies.
On the other hand Mendoza the land of grapes is not looking to good. Hence the Pampean provinces will end up subsidising you as always
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1685810-al-final-el-gobierno-opto-por-el-yuyo
You know, asshole, you want war? Ok, you got it.
May 05th, 2014 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have never EVER here promoted intra-Argentine fighting, but you are not argentine, you are a turncoat TRAITOR.
First of all, you fool, the report of La Nacion (which always tries to overplay anti-government news), makes a report on Mendoza. Now why would that be? Perhaps because they KNOW Mendoza is one of the few provinces that always does well, and so if we are (supposedly) doing poorly, then what's left for the rest of you pampean turds.
Second, the article starts with a pair or PORTENOS migrating to Mendoza to search either for jobs or a better life! Didn't I tell you a week ago that for as long as I have been conscious I know dozens of Portenos, Santafecinos that have migrated to Mendoza??? At least four families in my neighborhood block were either of the two. OTOH I have not seen many Cordobeses, but that's probably because they are too dumb to offer Mendoza anything.
So right of the bat you start with two own goals in your attempt to insult Mendoza again (Lanacion article on Mendoza, then article about PAMPEAN migrants to Mendoza). 0-2.
Third, the article says Mendoza has the HIGHEST job creation index in the country!!! Yet another own goal! 0-3.
Fourth, it clearly intimates that even after 15 years of growth and an adverse market today plus bad weather, Mendoza wineries are still not in retreat. Which means when things improve again they will be vigorous expanding. Remember, there has never been a wine region that has “gone out of business”, idiot. 0-4.
Fifth, it says that the prospects for economic growth in Mendoza medium term (when a new government comes in), are BETTER than the rest of the country. Like I also already told you, in downturns we do better and in expansions with do better. 0-5
Sixth, it says consumption indicators are better than the average. 0-6
Remember, one day Cordoba will lose it's car factories, like all places in the world, and you will be left with SHIT, literally.
F.Off.
Exactly Snotty. Quite agree with you last comment which you should apply to yourself.
May 05th, 2014 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To remind you of what it was: F off.
And btw, since when is an economic slowdown a “crisis”?
May 05th, 2014 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gosh the media is dumb today.
@13
May 05th, 2014 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That was pretty hilarioius and funny....!!!
I only said that Agro-farming sector still has the potential of lifting the country off its feet again, despite your through back comments being very hypocritical considering the shit Mendoza is in.
You are increadibly picky as to what the article says though I wonder if you really understand what it means...
And there is Medocino immigrants in Bs As and elsewhere too, so what??
What the article says is that the employeement rate is exagerated because of the harvest seasons that demand a lot of un skilled labour and a very large Provintial State employeement. Its not full time nor in white jobs anyway. Otherwise there is no jobs in Mendoza.
The situation that the consultant refers that may see Mendoza improve in the medium term is tied to Vale returning or not to Mendoza.
If the cars factories pull out we still export dounble than Mendoza does
40-100% yearly inflation is a crisis it is not a slowdown. Another devaluation is on the horizon.
May 05th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It looks like BCRA is not accumulating U$ during the only time of year they can.
No U$ No Fuel
Crisis is the correct word.
Brr
You M - O - R -O - N, the agricultural sector has no chance of pulling anyone out. It can't pull you out, it will pull everyone else. It has nothing to do with you or the Pampeans, it has to do with history. Argentina will not return to economic prosperity in a generalized sense, only individuals who provide an asset will do well. Which is what I am doing.
May 05th, 2014 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Employment is exaggerated? DUE TO HARVEST SEASON DEMAND? That must be breaking news in a province that needs to increase the workforce 15% come Vendimia time, which has only happened the last 400 years.... duuuh.
Go build your Cordoba-Rio Cuarto freeway (is it even a freeway), then come back to talk to me.
It just seems that Argentina is being replaced in lots of things,
May 05th, 2014 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0has not CFK noticed this, or does she not care, something is evidently wrong.
Sure your shitty wines will do the trick.... LOL Muppet do you even know how much taxes and US dollars we have being transfered to the national government all these years??
May 05th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its what the article says muppet. there is no private permanent jobs in Mendoza. Private sector grows at only 1,2%
Where did I say Mendoza would pull you???? 0-7 now.
May 05th, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, what if it grows 1,2%? I don't believe the figure anyway, but if so what? It's been 15 years since a significant recession, at some point it's bound to happen.
No of course you will not, that is the whole point. Cordoba exports 10x times what Mendoza does, and has being subsidising the national state for years now.
May 05th, 2014 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You cant compare at any lenght idiot
Ok, I don't even know if that figure is true or not, nor do I really care really.
May 05th, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You had your moment of glory right there, now bug off.
Pffffff muppet
May 05th, 2014 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.cac.com.ar/documentos/8_Perfiles%20Exportadores%20Provinciales%202012.pdf
21. 1999 was the last significant recession? What country do you live in?
May 05th, 2014 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW this is not a recession coming up. It will be an extended depression. If the next devaluation drives inflation over 100% then Int'l mfg will close up shop, that's most of your employment, no taxes, massive gov't layoffs...where does it end???
See Caracas.
Do you think anyone in Argentina knows about 2008? The USA may have melted down but in Argentina no one if asked would even remember anything happening that year, just not important nor did it affect us in any way. Up to last year things were quite well then the slowdown hit, and that's why unions have been since mid 2012 far more vociferous than before.
May 05th, 2014 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@24
That sh!t takes forever to load, forget it not interested.
Sad that if you do export 10 times, you can't keep a f-ing police force on the job. That's pretty pathetic.
Bad conection ??
May 05th, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cordoba exports 2011 .......................$10.497.453.968
Mendoza exports 2011........................$1.846.207.492
As I have always said the provinces like Santa Fe, Cordoba should have more autonomy to make their own laws and control better the money. the same can be said about the province of BsAs taking out of the equation the Conurbano bonaerense
Go for it, I really could care less except for my general preference for localized government accountability.
May 05th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great debate about Uruguayan milk sales to Brazil! As usual our snotty Trotsky commissar caudillo from Mendoza has skewed the debate.
May 05th, 2014 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remember what happened to Trotsky in Mexico, snotty?
Ice picks can be a deadly weapon
@27
May 05th, 2014 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So it's really not 10 times but rather 5 times. Then add population adjustment (3.4 million vs 1.7 million provinces), and so you really export only 2.5 times more per head.
Are you a confitero? You fudge really well.
@ 30 TTT
May 05th, 2014 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, you would rather have US$ 1,000 from one individual, than US$ 10,000 from 1,000 individuals!
No wonder you have such poor understanding of economics.
Not that you will either option.
Dear me.
You only export 17 % of what Cordoba exports ... that is not so far from the 10%. Still I wonder how the wineries would do with 75% tax on profit
May 05th, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like some provinces would be better of unhitching entirely from BsAs and making their own fortune.
May 05th, 2014 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If so many provinces are doing well and yet the country isn't; then the economic problems and issues are emanating from somewhere else. Where is the logic and advantage of being forever attached and dragged down by that somewhere else?
@31
May 05th, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't understand economics, you don't understand arithmetic.
Which one is more dire? We have already established it is not 10 to one, Cabeza dura (now I get it!), just finally admitted to it. 17% not for from 10% my ASS. In math you round from 5 UP, and you are rounding from almost 8 DOWN???
Must be a nightmare to be your accountant.
But leave to our aussie thinker to immediately prove the point I had been warning of, that is why I did not want to get into a province vs province debate, because remember Martin Fierro...
Be very proud of yourself CD, you now will get what you wanted.
Funny how Toby claims to want isolation yet is going on and on about exports.
May 05th, 2014 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Plus look at the 350MM going to the evil USA. I wonder how many families are directly supported by the USA? Looks like a lot to me.
Don't worry that was 2012 it is much less this year
much much less.
Shucks!
May 05th, 2014 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You proved the point long before I verbalised it Nostrils.
Here we have the best examples of why the British Empire was a disaster for the planet, and in particular cultural IQ levels. See the last two responses.
May 05th, 2014 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you deny the USA is supporting thousands (maybe 100 of thousands)of families in Mendoza through our largesse?
May 05th, 2014 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your English vocabulary comprehension is appalling.
May 05th, 2014 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0largesse: look it up.
F A I L .
Inscrutable lack of education standards.
I don't think Uruguay's producing more milk and dairy products. I think Argentina's producing less. Can anyone confirm this?
May 06th, 2014 - 02:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Nostrils. Has to strike out with personal attacks when he finds that he is unable to clearly articulate any coherent form of argument.
May 06th, 2014 - 02:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nostrils, you have told all of us AD NAUSEUM for the past few years about how well Mendoza is doing. How the problems afflicting Argentina as a whole are not felt in Mndoza. How Mendoza gives more than its takes. How well Mendoza works.
It is you that keeps setting Mendoza apart from other provinces and Argentina as a whole. Not me.
You present the facts but get upset when you can't frame the debate.
Mendoza might be all you say it is. A first rate province. However it is part of a dysfunctional country that is not first rate. And if blind nationalism is what keeps the successful parts of Argentina shackled to those that aren't then you will sink with them.
Argentina suffers recurring economic and democratic crises. If these are not emanating from all parts of the country but only some parts of the country, then you have to wonder what is the benefit of being attached to those parts?
I've never seen you articulate any actual good reason why Mendoza should actually be a part of Argentina.
I have explained why Argentine provinces have NEVER seceded and why there are no secession movements in Argentina since 1863.
May 06th, 2014 - 02:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's called patriotic piety, a concept all other nations in the planet do not and will never grasp.
@34
May 06th, 2014 - 03:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ohhh Dear you must think you have won the day....
Honestly I reviewed the data of exports as I see that Cordoba exported roughly a number with a DIGIT more over Mendoza I assumed it was 10% ish bigger...
Then you went to go on that Mendoza exorts 5 times. It doesn't, its closer to 6 times if we consider the round numbers being generous to you.
That is 17,58 you dont in no mathematical rounding method take that to 20% so you are far from those 5 times exports.
And as per head, my numbers are stil 3xtimes export per capita for Cordoba.
And all those highways you claim about must have being paid by the national government with money they have stolen from us. You governor is a KK so was the previous philo KK Celso Jaque and Cobos at his time.
Nostrils
May 06th, 2014 - 05:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It's called patriotic piety”
Patriotic piety would get you something in return. You've never articulated a single benefit.
Blind nationalism would be a better term.
“a concept all other nations in the planet do not and will never grasp”.
Bahahaha jeez you love your generalisations.
But while your beloved Province of Mendoza is hitched through “patriotic piety” the the distinction nation-state of Argentina (that is entering yet ANOTHER) economic crisis; I am immensely glad that the sovereign State of Victoria hitched itself to a federation that actually works and provides something for our contribution.
@44
May 06th, 2014 - 05:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has being a very centralist State from the battle of Pavon (1861) onwards.
It always was like that but now it’s coming to asphyxiating levels, and incredibly unfair.
One would think that someone as Toby who is very fond of his province would feel the need of each province gaining more autonomy and financial power.
Thing is it is likely many governors will now kneel even more to the central government as they are highly indebted and in the process of having starting to emit their own currency very soon.
39. Largesse is the correct word, I think it ended a year or so ago when we took away your import benefits. Probably one of the main reason you had such an abysmal year in Wine sales. There are lots and lots of countries to buy cheap wine from.
May 06th, 2014 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting fact, you pay more for Arg wine in Arg than we do here!
I think the predictions we've all stated on the demise of the Arg economy is finally sinking in with our silly little boy. Remember he's never lived through a crash. This will be his first one. He'll have to watch his family choose between heating their house or buying food. Internet will be a luxury. It seems he's already had to reduce speed since he couldn't download a short PDF file.
Oh my.
How in the world will he download a detailed map of all the places he covets yet will never see?
@43
May 06th, 2014 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not going to waste more of my time with a typical cordobes who doesn't know butt from mouth. Are all cordobeses slow and dumb, is the estereotype in jokes true? Is that why you talk like that?
No, my dumb cordobes (to avoid redundancy just dumb), the freeway Mendoza-Tunuyan was payed entirely with PROVINCIAL funds, as was the freeway widening of the Acceso Este, as was the Metro Tram. ENTIRELY our funds. Go read about those projects before casting judgement moron. And the freeway to the San Luis border, of course it had federal funding (in part), it's a FEDERAL highway! But even there, because funds were slow to come in, the province contracted some segments out of their own pocket, with the promise the federal government (ruled by Pampeans), would pay back. But trusting pampeans like you is our fault, since we know “Portenos de ley” and honorable doctos de ley never pay.
Mendoza with 1/3 of export money looks a more developed city than Cordoba does. You haven't even closed your ring highway yet, how many decades is that?
And yeah, stop with your “the federal government steals from us, wah wah”. If you were smart people you would have found ways to complete such vital projects with other means, and stop making excuses.
That is the diference between Mendoza and Cordoba, and in general pampeans and Mendocinos. You put excuses as to why things can't get done, we dig in and do with what we got.
That trait difference has been ALWAYS noticed, from Darwin to Sarmiento, and many in between. It is said that Mendoza is a desert so all that you see had to be EARNED. On the other hands you pampeans spit on the ground and get wheat, so you are used to being lazy and getting everything handed to you, and at the first sign of adversity you quit. Mendocinos just carry on.
Argentina only exists because the provincial governors are planted or bribed with disproportionate provincial funding and the provinces receive disproportionate voting weight from the political system in BA. Iow provincias get equal voting weight regardless of the number of inhabitants in those provincias. So a porteno's vote is worth much less than a vote from a voter in sparsely populated province. This disproportionality is entirely intentional and is for the benefit of the political class. It explains why Argentina is the way it is politically and economically.
May 06th, 2014 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me drop the troll hat for a moment.
May 06th, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina only exists because...”
Who the f--k are you to talk like this? Are you Argentine? Have you ever lived more than 5 years in the country? Did you study from school up to doctorate school in Argentine studies?
No. So again, who the F___K are you to simplify an entire nation of 40 million, 23 provinces, one federal district, 7th largest landmass, 200 years of history, countless immigrant, ethnic, and religious groups, varied ideologies, histories, and geographies into an “Argentina only exists because...”
That sort of simplification on an entire nation is why I am here. Because you lot deserve no better respect when you show that sort of genuine loftiness and benighted spunk.
How would you feel if I took all of England's/UK history, politics, geography, culture, and people, tossed it all out and said “the UK only exists because Spain had bad luck on weather during their attempted invasion”.
Tell me how would you feel to such a assassination on simplification.
And btw Sherlock, it is the same in all federal countries that the sparsely populated areas are over-represented in legislative bodies. So even on that your ignorance is appalling.
Troll mode is back “on” BTW. F.off.
@49
May 06th, 2014 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How childish.
Say what you like about the UK I really don't care. Im not a nationalist (nationalism is an ideology and thus irrational). I will however try to highlight hypocrisy. You could well be right about
“the UK only exists because Spain had bad luck on weather during their attempted invasion”.
Like I say I don't care.
''And btw Sherlock, it is the same in all federal countries that the sparsely populated areas are over-represented in legislative bodies. So even on that your ignorance is appalling''
In Argentina the provincias are much less developed and would be far less able to fend for themselves away from the federation than say in the US. Central government in Argentina wants the provincias to stay dependent on it whereas in the US central government wants the states to be as productive and developed as possible so it can collect more taxes. Thats the difference.
Really?
May 06th, 2014 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps
The VAST majority of these “super” US states get more than they pay in.
Check mate.
It doesn't matter what you take out from one place they subsidies another... Mendoza is subsidized at comparison with Cordoba who is a net contributor to the national state and a 6 times larger exporter.
May 06th, 2014 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Public salaries are higher in Cordoba than Mendoza. Mendoza FAR is more clustered than Cordoba. Cordoba is far better population distributed therefore you can’t concentrate the entire infrastructure in one place.
Highways are not an indicator of economical performance. San Luis is dead poor and subsidized and has the most Km of highways dumbarse.. Only in Tobiworld Shoppings and highways are LOL!
I met a student Mendocina today; I asked her how things are going. She prefers it here. And the criminals that are in Mendoza Capital are all mendocinos from Guaymallen and Las Heras, and smaller towns round the capital. So they are not foreign or the usal northern poor provinces
Toby
May 06th, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I should clarify that I was talking in relative terms and not absolute terms. I'm not trying to suggest there arent shenanigans going on in the US federal and voting system. Its corrupt. Agreed. But ask yourself this - could any province in Argentina go it alone without serious readjustment and pain? How many states in the US could go it alone without too much trouble?
US states are far better developed than Argentine Provinces with many states having higher GDPs than most countries in the world.
Considering that Argentina was formed around the same time as the USA was formed how do you explain the huge difference in development and wealth between the provinces in Argentina and the states in the US?
If you ask me thats because central government in the US encouraged the states to flourish while in Argentina central government has been cagey about allowing the provinces to grow strong.
@ 53 Tobers
May 06th, 2014 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If you ask me thats because central government in the US encouraged the states to flourish while in Argentina central government has been cagey about allowing the provinces to grow strong.”
In respect to the USA, it seems to me that many of the states wanted NOTHING to do with the Federal Government in their formative years and were dragged kicking and screaming “into line”.
Why is it STILL “The Commonwealth of Massachusetts”? Why do they still fly the Southern flag in some the states, albeit in subservience to The Stars and Stripes?
Why is it (it seems) that most states and the majority of individuals are now frightened of their own Government?
Perhaps yankeeboy will give us his take on your statement.
You can't compare US States to Arg Provinces. The structure is much different in the USA. In Argentina the Federal Gov't is extremely powerful with all taxes going into it and then being awarded back in some frightful algorithm that is usually ignored to clientelism.
May 06th, 2014 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0US States are much more independant. There is much more respect for State Gov't than there is for Federal in most cases but each state is different. Each has its own constitution with a Federal Gov't overlay.
Obama has tried very hard to push down laws, regulations and oversight into the states and has not been very successful. In the end courts usually side with the State over the Federal gov't.
Also that link Toby provided misconstrues the Federal Gov't payouts to the states, for example it looks like Alaska/DC/Nevada get large payouts per citizen, and that is probably true because they have a very low population AND the Federal Gov't is the largest landholder in all of those places so they are in effect paying a “real estate tax” back to the states.
BTW Toby, never quote from Mother Jones magazine it is written for collage age liberals that no nothing about the real world.
If that is your source it is no wonder you get so wrapped up in stuff you know nothing about.
...''US states are far better developed than Argentine Provinces with many states having higher GDPs than most countries in the world...''
May 06th, 2014 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0oops. I meant to say 'economy' not 'GDP'
Just the top 3 states by GDP added together are only surpassed by Japan and China.
May 07th, 2014 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's why when people come to the USA they are flabbergasted.
It is also why nobody alive will ever know a time when the USA is not the richest most powerful country in the world.
Cabeza Dura and yankeeboy are insane with their fantasies. The USA this and that (in wealth) but it brings you no joy in life. That is why people there work so much, they are chasing possessions and materials and after all that they still find no happiness. It is the saddest society there is.
May 07th, 2014 - 01:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for your Mendoza trashing, you obviously are not Argentine because you know NOTHING. Mendoza was for 30 years completely stripped of industry due to the PROMOCION INDUSTRIAL, so many factories packed for San Luis, San Juan, and La Rioja.
In fact Mendoza won the case in the supreme court because the billions in damage to our economy were clear in the numbers.
The Pampean provinces always received preference in investment prior to 1980. Everything flowed to them. And then the Patagonian provinces received for a long time the Tarifa diferencial for gasoline at 50% off. The northern provinces receive huge subsidies.
So Mendoza, not being in the Pampa, not being in Patagonia, not being a poor northern province, and having to suffer through the unfair federal tax laws that favored the other provinces of Cuyo, was proven at the Supreme Court to be the province with overall the most adverse conditions set up in LAW to attract investment and growth.
You are nothing but a fool and anti-Mendoza bigot for not mentioning any of that.
Toby, I am a very happy guy. I love my job, have a wonderful family, great friends and I live to travel and explore.
May 07th, 2014 - 02:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have often thought what would I change in my life if I won the lottery and it is always the same just do more of exactly what I am doing.
You have no idea what it is like to be able to, right now if I wanted, grab my passport and a suitcase and go anywhere in the world I wanted and come home when I am done.
You'll never know.
@59
May 07th, 2014 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0But you can't, it's just you wet dreaming (people have always the opposite of what they claim online, thus you probably never left your state), and even if you did 90% of your countrymen cannot leave their country because they either have no money or are not given the free time to do so. Remember, you don't even have lunch 30 minutes anymore.
Elaine claiming it's cultural is even funnier, like it's a “cultural” choice not to have a midday caloric intake, an essential of human biology.
Pampean provinces received preferential investment ?? Are you insane ?
May 07th, 2014 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Only BsAs received preferential investments and subsidies. The rest of the Pampas gets only cents from the national government, it has always being that way! Whatever % that stays kind of gets spend on infrastructure and other stuff. Specially Cordoba which has being always a traditional conservative and anti peronist vote district
So apart from that I rest my case... You bitch around claiming that everything is easy here and everything grows while Mendoza is a desert, sure we have our assets but so do you... You are closer to Chile and the Pacific markets, you have your mining fields. That you have heavy tax burdens on it and nobody invests is your problem.
Its not only the national gov't that was responsible of Vale cancelling. It was the local Mendoza municipalities that wanted bribes too!
Closer to Chile? That's a laughable “asset”. Get out of here.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0And keep twisting my words moron, the tax-free incentives were national government policy to develop the rest of Cuyo, to the detriment of Mendoza.
No one wanted Vale in Mendoza anyway. We don't want open-pit mines like in the USA.
Look retard, you pay f+ck all taxes as you are already. Many factories and producers had their fiscal address in San Luis but there operations remained elsewhere just to pay less tax. but the Jobs where not in San Luis, in fact everybody in San Luis Works for the State.
May 07th, 2014 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody did anything to the detriment of Mendoza.
Stop talking balls. FFS
After reading all that it seems to me that most of Argentina would be better off without BaAs. Or maybe a better idea is to shrink the central government and transfer as many powers to the provinces to create a competitive confederation.
May 07th, 2014 - 07:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0100% of Americans can leave the country anytime they want. About 30MM of them travel abroad yearly.
May 07th, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Psst that's almost the size of your whole country!
As a block we're the most sought after Int'l traveler.
For gosh sakes do you even know anyone who's ever been on a plane?
Have you ever seen one?
Silly provincial peasant you have no idea what you are talking about.
I think your meds are way off.
@65
May 07th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You also have 50 million poor.
Why do you play up your size when convenient but then cry “not fair” when the number size plays against you?
@63
Nobody did anything to the detriment of Cordoba. You were a pampered province from 1870 to 1950 when the national policy was to only develop the pampa.
Loser.
65. Our poor live lives equivalent to your middle class.
May 07th, 2014 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You'd be lucky to be poor here. You'd have a better life.
In a free society it is a bell curve for wealth distribution and guess what the poor have the opportunity to move up!
That's why we have huge immigration with people literally dying to get here.
@66
May 07th, 2014 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hahaha what a load of crap... During the agro exporting period the average size of the State was nt bigger than 5% of GDP and all the investments like the telegraph and the railways etc were private. All the electric grids that feed the farms were paid by the farmers. A lot of hospitals and schools that were founded in the 1930s by charity organizations and settlers. That’s why you see all the IPEMS in the poorer regions, because the State founded those while in the heartlands they were already existent. Most of gov't spending was allocated to defense and the armies as the borders were very vaguely defined and there were large extensions of frontier to cover in the early 1900s
The Pampas simply developed themselves and then the 1940s Statism and populism that lasts to this day simply funded itself from the wealth the region created
Oh yeah the pampas simply developed themselves, then you proved my point.
May 07th, 2014 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So stop whinging that you didn't take advantage of your opportunity. You should be 4-5 times richer than Mendoza that was completely ignored for 100 years and got NO investment in those 100 years.
He can't argue with anyone who actually knows something about what he is talking about.
May 07th, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD, do they teach logic/debate in Argentina? You seem to be the only one on here that can present a thoughtful argument.
Sorry, neither you or him have presented any argument, which is why it is so easy to reply to posts here I do it on my sleep. No neurons needed.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anglolatino @ 64
May 07th, 2014 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're certainly not the first to say this. Although personally, and contrary to what most Uruguayans find, I think middle class Porteños are easier to get on with than people from the provinces.
For example, a bunch of mock-environmentalists from the small town of Gualeguaychú illegally blocked an international bridge for years. Of course, they received encouragement and funds from NK who was the President in Buenos Aires, but not a Porteño.
71. Except the evidence is right in front of you. You can't argue and you lose every time.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is you think you are smart and maybe you are for a 3rd world provincial slumdweller but once you get into a debate with anyone who knows what they are talking about you crumble then cry about it.
70
May 07th, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, unfortunately they don't.
A lot of people like Tobi have a fixed idea of the world and its very hard for them to accept things are different.
I think that he is desperate to be right about something, at least once.
He has a very wounded ego
74. I didn't think so.
May 07th, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think over the last year he's learned the K gravy train is done and he won't see it again in his lifetime.
That's why he's so angry.
He also really can't grasp the rest of the world is not like Argentina.
It is very strange.
I gather he used to be far more “KK”ish like in the past sort of like Think, Axel and Dany Berger before I came around and the news trend became very negative.
May 07th, 2014 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that correct?
He didn't really talk about gov't too much only to the point that everything was going swimmingly and it would never end.
May 07th, 2014 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He was kinda fun at first, I think it all started to break down when he came up with a persona that sold obsidian and jade in Villa Gesell figuring nobody had ever been there to dispute it. Unfortunately for him I have.
Then its been one crazy post after another
Getting shot down repeatedly.
I'd go round and round with all of them pointing out the holes in their statements and was called every name in the book.
Ugh you know I forgot about Dany. What an idiot he was. I am sure he is happy he invested all his fortune in Pesos last year. They're worth double now right? Oh wait is that 1/2? oh shucks.
I'm sure you've notice Think and his various personas have stayed far away from any financial articles now that they've all turned negative. Nary a mention of VM either.
My ex Rg admin just contacted me and asked if there was anyway to work in the USA. Apparently he lost his job 6 mos ago and can't find anything. His english isn't too bad and he's a hard worker so I am really surprised. He said there are no jobs and everyone is getting laid off.
The one thing that can be said about Toby is that he is authentic. All these ideas of isolationism and mercantilism he comes up with now and then you can tell they are 100% Made in Tobyland.
May 07th, 2014 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All the others i.e Axel, Think, Dany are a copy paste and translation of official gov't media.
Of course poor Think now limits himself (But then he is a very limited man anyway) to discuss only Falkland Malvinas topics only and tries to flirt with Isolde and put a lot of effort in seeming witty but he totally fails always.
I just don’t understand that kind of people, or you are right or you are wrong about something you cant go on and on for years over the same issue.
I believe that Dany could have said such a thing but I doubt he would be as stupid enough to have done so in his own private life. Then who knows??
I think all of them, especially Axel, have being left very uncomfortable after the Roger Cohen “Cry for me Argentina” article.
Think, Voice et al make my skin crawl. I can taste their bitterness through the screen.
May 07th, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's where Toby is heading he just needs a few more years of living in a country that just when he gets his feet on the ground the rug is yanked out.
@70 no neither logic nor debate are taught in Argentina. Mathematical logic is taught in University and debate is a totally foreign concept to us. Here ideas aren't debated, they are imposed or planted with a jedi mind trick.
May 07th, 2014 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 80 MagnusMaster
May 07th, 2014 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you are saying that all the scientists and engineers are totally bereft of taught logic and are not encouraged to challenge ANY decision, even if it improves things?
If this is the case then it explains a lot about the arrogance of some of the argies we see over here. They clearly never think about where they are going as a country. Good grief!
You are all insane. Really insane with your fixation on Argentina.
May 08th, 2014 - 04:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The rest of the world is not like Argentina”.
Sure. You are all little saints with no crime, corruption, poverty, or dishonesty. You are all heaven on Earth literally. Only Argentina is Adam and Eve.
LOL, I cannot believe this fool actually insist every day on making me believe his country, or all others for that matter, are perfect paradises of ethereal life.
82. It is funny how you think we are insane when you accurately describe your posts and way of thinking but attribute it to us.
May 08th, 2014 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your problem is that you know nothing other than, in this order, Your Slum, Mendoza, Argentina, ALBA nations you see everything through that paradigm and your own eyes and don't understand that the rest of the world doesn't operate like that.
It is truly remarkable that you learn nothing with all the time you spend reading about the cultures and countries you envy.
Remember me telling you massive layoffs were coming...there here. Wait until next month.
@83
May 08th, 2014 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't get too philosophical. I am here just to tell you the reality of your countries. Are veterans still dying in your hospitals?
Only the dumbest society on Earth could have “so much money” (you claim), and have this happen.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/index.html
And you are so rich and yet have 25% child poverty?
What should be my view of a society that has 1 in 4 children in poverty, and lets their honored wounded DIE. The two most vulnerable groups (and seniors), spell the merits of a country:
“When the weakest amongst us are cared for, the strongest can build ever higher. When not, everything above stands on a rotten base; and nothing will stand for long.”- Bartolome Mitre
“The moral test of a government is how it treats those who are at the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the aged; and those who are in the shadow of life, the sick and the needy, and the handicapped.” - Hubert Humphrey
“In a country well governed poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed wealth is something to be ashamed of.” -Confucius
USA #1????
84. You can keep your platitudes thanks!
May 08th, 2014 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Our poor are equivalent to your middle class so again no worries.
T
he VA is a scandal, they should disband it altogether and the Vets should be able to get health care through the regular/private channels. There is no reason for the Gov't to have its own hospitals and health care just for Vets.
And this may just help that along.
Toby, your whataboutery is boring. It just show how dumb you are and that you absolutely can't debate. Your education is an embarrassment.
I think we should be talking about Venezuela. When that shit implodes it will effect the entire continent. Brazil is in deep (debt wise) to Venezuela. Argentina is politically indentured, The smaller countries, (Boliviar, Nicaragua etc) were only after the cheap oil anyway.
May 12th, 2014 - 03:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0ALBA will blow, maybe Brazil will survive the fallout (non-signatory), the rest will be bankrupt. Only Chile, and MAYBE Columbia and Peru will survive intact. It will effect all of Lat Am. No more cheap oil.
Argentina is going to hell in a handcart, others will follow.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!