MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
India, Brazil and South Africa want Argentina to join the BRICS club
India, Brazil and South Africa are interested in having Argentina join the BRICS group of emerging economies which also includes Russia and China, according to Indian ambassador in Buenos Aires Amarenda Khatua in an interview with Clarin. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe BRICS has become a joke of a group anyway, with nothing uniting the disparate countries other than the fact they are not developed and have no likely prospect of becoming developed any time soon.
May 06th, 2014 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina joining would be perfect. A group that does nothing but talk and whose cooperation is tissue thin - perfect for the current Argentine government.
One more incompetent country will solidify their image and reputation.
May 06th, 2014 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's akin to deliberately putting a rotten apple in the barrel.
May 06th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you serious? What about Venezuela?
May 06th, 2014 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0BRICS economic organization was founded less than a decade ago based on each country good and upstream economic performance as emerging countries leading towards regional and world potential and strong economies, but such membership was never created with the intention that country's friendship is the organization's first requirement.
Honestly, and due to the current economic trend Argentina should not be considered as member of BRICS, because Argentina's economic indicators, such as inflation, currency devaluation and trade, are in poor in performances. In fact, investors holding the Government Bonds from 2001 have not been honored considering yet as the USA court mandated 4 weeks ago.
Where is the world going to?
What type of security Brics offers to old and new global investors?
Kirk Nelson,
New York, NY
The BRIC expanded. The South-South economic relations grow and strengthen seeking to minimize the interdependence with Western.
May 06th, 2014 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has a diversified economy, undeniable talent and an outstanding professional leadership in America.
This should be the vision for the future of our emerging nations. Political, economic and military integration.
The others are just Western.
Welcome to the club, brave Argentina.
I think most of the BRIC countries got carried away...Specially Brazil with its delusions of grandiur and trying to prove to the world their ascendance by hosting olympics, WC and wanting also permanent seat in the UNSC.
May 06th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0It was simply a economical term for a group of countries with similar characteristics.. But never a political union.
Why Argentina??? Well for starters South Africa is there when it shouden't. But many other countries are far more promissing than Argentina like Indonesia, Mexico, Turkey, Poland .
I think the BRIC term itself only serves to cover up the real rising power that is China. Russia, India and Brazil are a joke.
@ 6
May 06th, 2014 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good analysis, China is the boss of this group with an eye looking to the West: that is the real target.
China is an economic superpower. Russia is a military superpower. India is a superpower in IT. South Africa is a superpower on social integration. Brazil and Argentina are a food superpower.
May 06th, 2014 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Indonesia and Turkey will be part of BRIC soon.
Poland is too western for our interests.
Mexico is part of the first world. The 51st State of the United States. Western.
Brings to mind the old Graucho Marx witticism. “I would not join any club that would have me as a member”.
May 06th, 2014 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0The BRIC is how this city. Emerging, plural, ambiguous, full of problems, full of virtues, full of hopes.
May 06th, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0However, in all aspects LINDA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6AzW_VC2t0
You are idiot Aurelio, out of Brazilian ignorance you dont know how the world works..
May 06th, 2014 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0For starters that Russia and China don’t join in Brazil, SA and India in this idea just shows how much amateurs and newbies these last 3 countries are.
Besides China doesn't sell not even a toy gun to India. Russia and China are bound to compete and clash in Central Asia. And India and China are already clashing.
If you want to understand where and with whom alliances are established you must follow the arms trade.
You always talk of alliances, unions, integration... Against who ?? For what purposes??
Oh gosh it looks like another failed Alba alliance and will most likely have the same outcome. Every nation on the list is a corrupt basket case on the verge of a long recession ( except India)
May 06th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0They merely trying to establish a Axis against the true world financial and military powers.
It won't work, they need us much much much more than we need them.
I think its mostly propaganda and empty delusions about a term that was invented in a Goldman Sach's office in London...
May 06th, 2014 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lula et.al got carried away... There is no real political unión, though the term in my view only serves China.
All are disunited. We all have disagreements. We have our Gibraltar, Scotland, Catalonia, Falklands, Kashmir, Ukraine, etc .... Cisplatin.
May 06th, 2014 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0A new fact, a new agression can rock structures not as well sedimented.
I could say that the West has already shown us their true faces. And they are not pretty.
About China. From what I know, I enjoyed most of them.
Certainly, for me being a third world illiterate, I have no arguments and inexorable truths to discuss with your extreme wisdom, Englishman!
“I have no arguments and inexorable truths to discuss with your extreme wisdom”
May 06th, 2014 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wow ........For once you are right on something.
Have a nice day
14. Certainly, for me being a third world illiterate,
May 06th, 2014 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0You should have started and stopped with that...
The rest of that gobbledygook is a translation fail.
Who is using the 'Brasileiro' account today?
May 06th, 2014 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just for the record, there is still only one economic superpower, the USA. The others are predicted to be in the future. 2030 at the earliest.
I am fascinated by the way an idea mooted by a couple of economists from Goldman Sachs has become a religion to some left-wing posters on here. Ironic?
“Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
May 06th, 2014 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ...”
Lmfao.
Argentina could do for the developing BRICS nations of the whole world what it has done so successfully for its own people and the peoples of Mercosur.
Just a faint and mild momentary distraction here. Has anyone else noticed a difference in Brasileiro's grammar, diction and composition?
May 06th, 2014 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Just for the record, there is still only one economic superpower, the USA. The others are predicted to be in the future. 2030 at the earliest.”
May 06th, 2014 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 017 Trillions in debt can't be classified as anything else than “super”' I agree...
stevie would you say the debt it a balance sheet or P&L item if you were to classify by GAAP or FASB standards? Same question to the GDP?
May 06th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd say your equation matters little, as there is nothing you can sell in order to pay that debt...
May 06th, 2014 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22 You do not seem to comprehend the meaning of an economic superpower. That you do not agree with the definition is irrelevant.
May 06th, 2014 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 022. Why would we have to sell anything when the debt is easily manageable with the size and depth of our economy?
May 06th, 2014 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think big numbers are scaring you since you don't fully understand what they represent.
@23
May 06th, 2014 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seem to think that the more money you borrow as a country and canalize it to the pockets of the few, makes the whole country a “superpower”.
For you, reality seems to be irrelevant...
25. You are describing Socialism, Marxism, Communism not the USA. Your description applies to Venezuela, Russia, China, Argentina, Brazil, where the masses get poorer and the Pols/Cronies get fabulously wealthy.
May 06th, 2014 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell me again how does the Chavez and Castro families have multi billions? How?
dufus
yanqui
May 06th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0According to Princeton Uni (top 10 in your lists), the USA is considered an oligarchy.
According to you, the Chavez and the Castro families are multi billionaires.
Do you understand my skepticism? No?
It's ok yanqui...
@27. It is not MY definition. The US is the only superpower. That is a fact. That YOU personally do not agree with the definition is irrelevant to this discussion.
May 06th, 2014 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 027. Oh Princeton! Is that an irrefutable source?
May 06th, 2014 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You do understand what is going on in the USA now don't you? Every liberal that can form a sentence is talking about income inequality like they did with Global warming.
Its all nonsense.
How come USA Presidents don't acquire Billions while they're in office like they do in the countries you like to believe are “more equal”?
dufus
You mean like those US weapon traders, lobbying organisations and corrupt politicians you have that never would make profit while in charge?
May 06th, 2014 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who would that be?
And where is your proof of Chavez being a multi billionaire? Or Castro?
Furthermore, are you telling me the top Uni's in the world are telling porkies now, or is it just Princeton by your own convenience?
30. Care to put that first sentence in English?
May 06th, 2014 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chavez Fortune:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9993238/Venezuela-the-wealth-of-Chavez-family-exposed.html
There are 100s of articles to choose from if you care to do you own research.
Castro:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9993238/Venezuela-the-wealth-of-Chavez-family-exposed.html
Again, lots of info out there if you care to do your own research
I guess some Pigs are more equal than others
Have you read your sources?
May 06th, 2014 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Said to be”, “Estimated amounts”' “Unconcluded numbers”, “Different sources”....
Porkies.
32. Yeah okay, from a mud hut to multiple guarded compounds all while in office.
May 06th, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0While the rest of the population goes on ration cards.
What happens if you use up your TP by Wed?
Some pigs are more equal than others.
Who said all those compounds where private?
May 06th, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And by the way, do you have proof of those “multiple guarded compounds”, or are you just telling porkies again?
Is it merely another “Everyone knows...”?
But enough of the whataboutery. Surely Argentina is not forecast as an economic power of the future. Even TTT talks about them being a has been country. So, what would be the reason for India to want them in BRIC(S)? Could it be to dilute the over-riding power of China? Or to enslave them in a club that will control their agricultural produce?
May 06th, 2014 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentineans might want to think about the motives before jumping onboard.
stevie....as usual you once again missed the point. did your parents ever teach you that you can't wish your enemies away?...Nor bore them to death as much as your try.
May 06th, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yankee talking to johnathan is like talking Lenin out of communism........in his current state of mind. stevie has never been anyway and rambles like a man with a paper ass.
When I am bored he's fun to poke a stick at like Toby.
May 06th, 2014 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do not argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.~Mark Twain
35 ElaineB
May 06th, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0” So, what would be the reason for India to want them in BRIC(S)? Could it be to dilute the over-riding power of China? Or to enslave them in a club that will control their agricultural produce? ”
Funny you say that, Elaine.
That's what it looks like from here.
I suppose it would appeal to their vanity to 'belong' to an International group.
agenda:
Commiseration, annual convention in the Seychelles, etc.
@8 “China is an economic superpower. Russia is a military superpower. India is a superpower in IT. South Africa is a superpower on social integration. Brazil and Argentina are a food superpower.”
May 06th, 2014 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hahahahahahahaha!
China is POOR. A per capita GDP around a quarter of the UK's. Russia is ORDINARY. A military one-third the size of the USA. Indians are quite good at remembering which wires plug in which socket. South Africa is an exercise in reverse apartheid. It won't like white latinos. And we can probably do without coffee and soy. The important thing to remember is what happens to a BRIC when you throw it in a puddle!
@10 Drugs, burglary, mugging, robbery, murder!
@14 At least you can recognise English wisdom. Later on, you'll learn to think. Perhaps when you're 13 or 14.
@22 How about your life?
@34 Quit the semantics, dumdum. Not even being in latam, what would you know? Get back to where you belong.
@37
May 06th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://finance.yahoo.com/news/death-lunch-113255097.html
Keep your “money”. You are not allowed even a 10 minute sandwich, for Allah's sake. And you get shot dead at work so all your money did you what? And due to commutes most Americans eat no breakfast at all or some crap in their cars.
So crappy breakfast, no lunch hour, 10 hour workdays, lower pay than 30 years ago, 1 week vacation a year. EVEN LUNCH HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY from you.
You indeed are a capitalist's paradise. What a horrible horrible place to “live” (you obviously don't).
@40 Are you taking into account cultural differences? Lunch tends to be a quick snack and supper is the main meal.
May 06th, 2014 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Traditionally, only the working classes - physical working class - would eat a main meal at lunch time (dinner) and then have a light snack after work (tea-time).
Seriously, you don't really believe that the US is worse off than Argentina do you?
“India, Brazil and South Africa want Argentina to join the BRICS club”
May 06th, 2014 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I want this weeks winning lottery numbers but it aint gonna happen. :-)
40. Your reading comprehension is an embarrassment. Before you get too excited let me point out a couple things;
May 06th, 2014 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A long time ago, probably 3-4 generation Argentinians lost the connection between work and success. You'd rather fritter your life away live in a small dirty little house or apt and let the gov't take care of you...badly. Getting poorer and dumber with every generation.
and
The lady in the article is getting going to a salon instead of eating during her mid day break. She is also French for gosh sakes and CHOOSES to live in the USA instead of France AND CHOOSES to get her hair done rather than eat. Do you understand why your post makes you look stupid?
Silly boy living through a computer screen with slow internet trying to understand why you are dumb and poor and will be dumber and poorer in many years to come.
As I said long ago, pretty soon average Argentines will not be able to communicate with the civilized world. You'll be living in a “rotary phone” world and wonder why nobody talks to you.
Brasil's main contribution to BRICS is as a resource provider.
May 06th, 2014 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brasil like Russia, will continue as a resource supplier for years to come, despite China's purchase power cooling or not.
Argentina, the subject of this topic, can be a resource provider, but has a serious financial problem. Financial reality is something Argentina loves to argue about. The self-administered problems it faces are never it's fault, always to be blamed on someone else, or another country. Boo-hoo.
Until it can get it's financial house in order including accountability, Argentina is a toxic Albatross for any organization or membership to consider.
6
May 06th, 2014 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It was simply a economical term for a group of countries with similar characteristics.. But never a political union.”
They are not even similar.
China and Russia and even India may share some points in common, but Brasil is completely different in every aspect. Geopolitically, economically, culturally, socially. And its goals are very different.
No serious academic take this term seriously.
45
May 07th, 2014 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well the term itself was invented in 2001 for a group of countries that had similar aspects like large populations and huge territories and vast resources, cheap labor and these were to dominate a significant part of the global economy in the future. If you consider that this was invented in 2001 and how these powers emerged during the 2000s decade they were not to mistaken so on a plainly economical sense they were correct, but now I totally agree that the term is completely out dated, and as 3 of the 5 countries are Eurasian (which happen to be the most powerful ones) competing with each other already, there is no possible way they can have a geopolitical common goal.
Now there is talk of “MINT” group which is Mexico-Indonesia-Nigeria and Turkey…
The one I personally think might be doing well in the future is Poland.
I think Russia and China never took the term seriously, the other three did.
You have to understand the US and UK are BIZARRE “societies”. I have never seen a word so stretched as in this case (society).
May 07th, 2014 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I mean we are talking about countries where family was never important to begin with. Most people are divorced and most children never grow up with two parents. Bad start.
Then, extended families are not close at all, in fact most Anglos will go years and years without seeing their cousins, etc.
So they replaced family with materialism: going out to shop, going out to buy music, shoes, going out to eat. But now even THAT is disappearing: Elaine herself said she no longer leaves to shop for anything. Like her many others, have probably not done any casual social interactions in months.
That is why all kinds of business are closing down, people don't go out anymore.
Now even RESTAURANTS are closing, since people don't have the time for lunch, and increasingly people stay home for dinner because they CONTINUE to work from their computers, so they can't go out to a restaurant.
So no family, no social interactions, not even restaurants.
Then you wonder why every day in such countries people just show up and start shooting at you and kill dozens.
There is literally NO humanity left in many people there, all their lives completely detached from actual human to human contact.
Truly nightmarish places to “live” in.
Generalisations galore folks.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0@47 If any of that were true it would be somewhat grim but as usual you have gone off on a flight of fancy. If you just experienced the reality instead of your imagined disaster movie plot, you would realise how ridiculous you sound.
May 07th, 2014 - 07:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just one point. Does anyone go out to buy music unless they collect vinyl? I go out to see bands, go to the opera, go to concerts but I download music. Anyone?
#47
May 07th, 2014 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can confirm all this without ever having left Argentina or probably never having spoken to anyone from the UK ?
You sound like one of those brain-washed communist societies of the 1950's who were told that they lived in a paradise compared with the west where children were used as slave labour and the populace were ground down to starvation by evil capitalists.
Save up your pesos and come to Europe- as you despise the UK , try the Irish republic which is much the same as the UK, and see if your expectations are in alignment with reality. I would not imagine you would be in any fear of physical assault because you are Argentinian.
#49
I still listen to old vinyl collected from 1957 until their demise, then it was cassettes and later, CD's.
I still occasionally purchase CD's but never got into the MP3 or iPlayer syndrome. The music produced by these has to be electronically compressed and, in so doing, something is lost in the reproduction.
There is an interest in new vinyl recordings in the younger generation.
There was an item on the BBC about this very thing. One advantage is holding the sleeve of a 12” record and admiring the art work on the cover. You can hold something tangible and feel a connection you cannot get with downloaded music.
@50 Yes, I can see what you are saying but the fact is most music is now downloaded. Even the charts had to be changed to account for this.
May 07th, 2014 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Specialist record shops still exist to sell to collectors but how many CD shops have survived? I can think of one but that has been struggling.
I love how TTT projects. He thinks we ALL sit in our homes, never go out and never socialise. Strange.
47. That may be the most ridiculous post you've ever written on this board. and there have been some real crazy ones.
May 07th, 2014 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I really wonder if sometimes your meds are off and you just go off the deep end.
FYI, In the 5 blocks surrounding my place they have just completed over U$5B of new contruction, hotels, office buildings, condos, apts, so many restaurants I don't have time to go to all of them and are rolling out announcements of high end stores that you've never heard of. They also announced around another U$2.5B of new buildings for their next phase. Then I think they'll be done for awhile.
You'll never know how nice it is here.
There are reasons people are literally killing themselves to live here.
@52
May 07th, 2014 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only for money. Because in human history, power and or money have always been the sought prize for people who otherwise have something missing in their lives.
Not surprisingly, even if those people find wealth or power, it does not make them happy. It takes something else to do that, or otherwise remain even more miserable than before, and abuse their power and wealth.
What I wrote at @47 stands.
You people like to write about my society without having a clue about it? Take the medicine you dish without crying morons.
@53 I know a lot about your society and many others. It is my job to know.
May 07th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“power and or money” The two things you crave in your posts. I can confirm they are not the foundation of happiness, it is the freedom of choice it gives you that increases the ability to live a happy, useful and fulfilled life, and the tools to help others less fortunate.
TTT sitting around doing nothing with your life but complaining that you 'don't care' because you 'don't want anything' is just lazy. You make a lot of excuses for underachieving. And you really do not sound at all happy, just full of envy and hatred.
Why not spend your time learning to do something useful so you can make some money and help others. Or get into a position of power so you can make a difference.
You do not know more about my society than I do. If that is your claim your arrogance is unrestrained impudence and chutzpah.
May 07th, 2014 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I crave power and money? I have admitted I am poor. I mean the only place in the world I could pretend to be rich is here, ONLINE. How would you know? But I don't pretend.
I have also said I have no power to change anything else. I have told that to that twat CabezaDura, that the only thing you can improve is yourself. You obviously are selective in the posts I redact.
Yeah I sit around and do nothing. The reason that completely unsubstantiated statement does not phase me is because it is completely and utterly untrue. Where did I say I don't want anything? I don't want YOUR lifestyle, that you are trying to impose in my country, where you can't even enjoy a meal and you chase money because everyone else is.
I refuse to make money or become powerful for its sole sake. I will do what I love and enjoy, and makes me happy. If that brings me money and power, then they are positive corollaries.
That is diametrically unlike the Anglo model, which is make money and get power first, then use them to find (or buy) happiness.
The day you accept other people do not think much of your societal model and disagree with your values, and respect those “dissenting” (just different) views, the more at peace you will be and less hatred towards Argentines you have.
For anybody who thinks that it is cheap for Brasilians to live and work in Brasil:
May 07th, 2014 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://veja.abril.com.br/blog/augusto-nunes/historia-em-imagens/um-video-mostra-que-o-brasil-inventado-pelo-governo-das-conquistas-trabalhistas-nunca-chegou-ao-bolso-dos-trabalhadores/?fb_action_ids=10203180102878946&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=.U2kIW3ZSjBw.like
The source is Veja, a political Brasilian magazine that is constantly seeking to inform and make things better. It has been the major source of exposes about PT and the Lula/Dilma administrations and corruptions.
It is a great way of learning Brasilian Portuguese.
55. You've stated you've never been to Buenos Aires, your most populous city WHERE HALF OF YOUR SOCIETY LIVES!
May 07th, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would say YOU don't know your Society.
I lived there many years I know Argentina better than you know yourself
You are full of jealousy and angry that you'll never amount to anything.
You thought learning languages would get your out of your horrible life but recently you realized it won't and you're going to stuck living with your parents until your 30s or 40s.
Sad little creature
56 Nostrils
May 07th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I refuse to make money or become powerful for its sole sake. I will do what I love and enjoy, and makes me happy. If that brings me money and power, then they are positive corollaries.”
Sorry, Toby,
That doesn't seem to ring true.
Your frustration, anger, and the hatred you direct at us, seems to belie what you are saying.
It is fine to be proud of your country and your culture, but your insults and demonising of our society, whilst you go nowhere and cower by your front door, suggests underlying resentment, jealousy and denial.
You are only kidding your own self.
Do yourself a favour and get out there.
Until you do, nobody takes what you say seriously.
@TTT
May 07th, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You do not know more about my society than I do. If that is your claim your arrogance is unrestrained impudence and chutzpah. ”
I didn't say that. You said, “You people like to write about my society without having a clue about it?” I do have more than a clue about it.
“I have also said I have no power to change anything else”
We all know that. The frustration seeps out of your posts. My point is that with some effort you could achieve a position of influence.
“I don't want YOUR lifestyle, that you are trying to impose in my country”
Nope. Not trying to impose anything.
“where you can't even enjoy a meal”
I have no idea what you mean by that. If you are asking if I eat out then I can say roughly 200 to 250 days of the year I eat out. I tend to enjoy the company more than the food unless it is exceptional. I also enjoy cooking for family and friends.
“I refuse to make money or become powerful for its sole sake. I will do what I love and enjoy, and makes me happy.”
The narcissism of youth. It is all about you and your own needs. You are missing the point that you could make a difference for other people if you made the effort and was a little less selfish.
I have no hatred towards Argentines. You know that.
It seems as though Mr. Market thinks Argentina is going to be forced to pay the holdouts.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's a huge rally in the defaulted debt.
Mr. Market is usually right.
Singer lawyers threw a curve ball today, they say since the bonds state“ they are governed under NY law” and since this has nothing to do with sovereignty SCOTUS should not hear the case.
I think they are right.
Rut Ro
Except you have to force a country to pay.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How... how... hahahaha.
The next Prez will pay if this one chooses not to deal with the problems they created.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are months away from running out of U$.
No fuel, no jobs tend to make people angry.
SInger has to do nothing but wait.
#55
May 07th, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poverty is NO crime, however accepting it IS when you have the means to do something about it. Sitting in your own country and ignoring the outside world leads to stagnation and a downward spiral..You obviously have a gift for languages. Move to B.A. and make use of it. There must be vacancies in banks, commerce and journalism for talent.
You may not like the work, but you can always return home if you fail.
At least you would have tried and had some experience of real life instead of wasting your time here.
What suits you as a young man can turn out sour in later years.
There is nothing sadder than reaching middle age and saying....if only !
How does a country with no fuel and jobs pay?
May 07th, 2014 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hahahaha.
64. My guess is the IMF will have to come in, strip away all financial control from the current corrupt numbnuts and try to re-build. It will take a generation or two of austerity to fix this horrible mess.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The people will demand it.
Wait and see.
Brr
@55 TBT
May 07th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I refuse to make money or become powerful for its sole sake. I will do what I love and enjoy, and makes me happy. ”
Good for you. That is your right. We all have a right to the pursuit of happiness.
Do you think you should pay for your chosen lifestyle out of your own pocket?
Or, that if this chosen lifestyle of yours requires a little extra money from time to time, your government should help you out?
LOL, you are a funny amateur fiction writer. IMF in control of Argentina.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What other wet dreams do you have.
@63
Ignoring the outside world?
67. I think you live in a state of delusion.
May 07th, 2014 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said just wait
Wait until the electricity is out, gas is out, factories are closed, food is scarce, when you don't have U$ to pay for everything you import there will be no choice.
The coming financial collapse is like nothing that Argentina has ever experienced.
Nobody will bail you out this time
Nobody cares
And I am pretty sure The USA wants to use you as an example of what happen when you try to buck the system.
Who bailed us out the last time? That's why we defaulted!! Only country of 35 in the last 40 years not bailed out.
May 07th, 2014 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's why we don't answer to anyone.
There is no “last time” that's what you don't understand. This is continuation of the mess the Ks created. This decade of spending fueled by stolen cash and ignoring bills could only last so long.
May 07th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is only one chapter in a long history of bad judgement.
The money is gone. Argentina has never been in a worse position.
I know its hard for you to grasp so as I say
Just wait.
@69 “That's why we don't answer to anyone.”
May 07th, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am curious. How do you square that grandiose statement with the recent actions of the Argentine government? They have been bending over backwards to get back into the financial markets.
Economic success is not solely based on the land a country occupies or the assets it holds. Human capital is often the primary arbiter of success. (My thanks to WIkipedia for the next bit...)
May 07th, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Human capital is the stock of competencies, knowledge, habits, social and personality attributes, including creativity, cognitive abilities, embodied in the ability to perform labor so as to produce economic value. So on that basis of that definition I think it would be fairly safe to say “Argentina is screwed....” :-)
@72
May 07th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is what happens in a culture that really wants to just enjoy life, and live it to it's fullest. They don't keep up with their neighbors and they ultimately enjoy life less and less. Their neighbors decide the flow of things, that is the natural world we live in.
Then they have to lie that they are working when they aren't and want the people who have really worked to pay for another's sustenance and enjoyment. And they want their govt. to print more money for the same. And they want their govt. to borrow more money for the same.
When all this collective irresponsibility starts falling apart, they scream bloody murder to high hell, and demand that the government borrow more money (or print more).
This planet just wasn't meant to be “easy”. For all that, it is still pretty easy, but some people expect much more, and for no effort. The US is screwed too.
@65 does the IMF have the authority to do that? It's one thing to tell European countries that are bound to the EU and will happily obey if they have to do austerity because the people aren't going to burn the country down anyway, and the IMF is just “recommending”. But Argentina is a different story. If the IMF wants to take over Argentina they'll need an army.
May 07th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am old enough to remember being completely embarrassed for my country when the Labour government had to beg the IMF to bail Britain out. The amount was for GBP 2.3 Billion which in 1976 was a HUGE amount of debt.
May 07th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In order to get this money the government had to do a number of things that being socialist scum they didn’t want to do, BUT THEY DID THEM ANYWAY because without the money no-one wanted to predict the outcome.
I do remember that civil unrest to the point of rebellion was very much to the forefront of the minds of the Labour twats, but I thought that was only them panicking.
However, the causes of all the unrest, namely the inability of successive governments to curb the power of the unions was about to manifest itself when The Blessed Margaret became PM with a huge majority which allowed her to ram the necessary laws through Parliament. “No Money Pepe” lookalikes figured hugely as union “leaders”, the only problem was that like the murdering bastards who run oor country, they didn’t have a ffing clue other than to strike. So much like SA.
The complete lack of a real working majority and the myriad of fractions that pervade all SA political systems means that no one individual has the power to really solve problems (or abuse them, except for the Bus Driver).
BUT, Argentina, either soon or when the “new” government takeover WILL do as they are told, thus guaranteeing more “we are the victim” cries for another 50 years or more.
And they will look back on the good old days of the CFK administration and demand the current government run things like her government did.
May 07th, 2014 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because those times were so much better.
#67
May 07th, 2014 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Ignoring the outside world? ”
The main context of your posts apart from your rants against the Anglos has been that YOU want nothing to do with the rest of the world - including your S.A. neighbours.
You favoured a laager mentality in which Argentina would retreat into it's shell. No trade and no contact with any country.
Definition of ignore :-refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally.
Being fluent in the English language, I think that this fairly represents your mindset on this forum, unless you wish to retract your earlier statements.
@75 yes, the Peronists will pretend to do as they're told, but they will half-ass it like Menem's government did, and not solve the real problems. And the IMF will play along, because the large corporations will at least be able to profit for a few years.
May 07th, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But there won't be any Thatcher in Argentina, there are too many people who will actively prevent someone like her from ever getting to any government, even something as simple as being the mayor of a city.
74. Yes they have the authority, they can make everything part of the loan agreement and withhold disbursements until they are assured the law, process they want is past and assured.
May 07th, 2014 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The last time the IMF lent money to Argentina they would “recommend” and then keep loaning. That's not going to happen again.
Another win for the beautiful and brilliant Cristinita - now the world's rising powers ask Argentina to join their club =) Oh but we're all still supposed to believe collapse is imminent, as if this offer would be made if it was!
May 07th, 2014 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@80
May 08th, 2014 - 03:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Their is some common ground for BRICS and Argentina.. In Argentina farmers are taxed between 75% and 84% of income to give the mob handouts... In South Africa the farmers are murdered by black mobs to land grab.
@66
May 08th, 2014 - 03:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why would I ask for help? I know what I'm doing, I'm an adult, if I want to earn less money to be happier that is what I will do. I'm not going to get to the point where want sets in, I'll do enough to have good food and a couple of things I do enjoy buying, but that is it. I have absolutely no interest in being a pawn of dirty politicians that then only are interested in your vote, just as I refuse to be a pawn of capitalist pigs that tell you one must work 12 hour shifts no lunch no vacation to keep up with everyone else forced to do the same.
@77
Correct, as it is hard to “get along” with countries, which like the UK (and many others), have enmity towards Argentina. Please spare me the “you are ridiculous the UK doesn't give a fuck about Argentina”... yet at every turn you are there to somehow make life difficult for us. You claim you are not an imperial nation anymore yet you hold on to territorial claims in Antarctica. Just an example of the utter inconsistencies.
Since Argentina has many enemies (both made due to our actions and others due to history, geography or cultural incompatibility), there is no point in opening up to the world as that would mean our end. Europe is not a good bunch of countries. The USA is not a good country. Most of our neighbors are not good countries.
So why would we engage with people that at the first sign of openness would do us in?
Wow such a persecution complex.
May 08th, 2014 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Excuse you, the British on this board threaten us every day with “targeting from bases in Scotland”, and you expect Argentina to just sit back and pretend they are a non-threat?
May 08th, 2014 - 06:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nostrils you aren't Argentina.
May 08th, 2014 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are just a person sitting in front of a monitor. As are we all.
Get some perspective.
@82 You reveal so much about yourself in that first paragraph.
May 08th, 2014 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0You 'work' whenever you wants to for however long it takes you to earn enough to eat, buy shoes and music? What about rent? What about utilities? What about paying tax? Surely someone so nationalistic will want to pay into the system.
You have the voice of a disenfranchised youth with no prospects in life. You might wrap it up in 'don't care' but clearly you do care very much.
One day, TTT, you will have to grow up and assume some responsibility. The world is not just about YOU and YOUR needs. You live in a society and you should be contributing to it.
#77
May 08th, 2014 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have gone off at a tangent to my reply at #77.
The UK has had an Imperial past, like many other countries, including Spain, of which you are the beneficiary.
I presume that you are referring to the UK making life difficult for you.
If you are referring to the Falklands, then I would agree. Again, you are making life difficult for the UK in this matter. So far, a draw.
Antarctica. Britain has been exploring this region for well over a century...long before Argentina. So, using your logic, we should remove our presence from the Continent and let Argentina's expansionism continue. Your country has Imperialist pretensions of it's own.
If the UK moved out of the sub-Antarctic islands Argentina would race in and claim them for itself, and the whole of Antarctica if it could get away with it. So. don't try the “holier than thou card”, it's blatantly false.
#84
You are making the fundamental mistake of assuming the people who post here talk for the UK. They don't anymore than you talk for the whole of Argentina. We ALL talk for ourselves and often get carried away in the rhetoric.
“targeting from bases in Scotland”, and you expect Argentina to just sit back and pretend they are a non-threat?
YOUR government would have you believe that RN nuclear subs. are patrolling just off-shore threatening your country. Absolute rubbish !
Apart from one psychopath who hates almost everyone, all that has been pointed out is that an ICBM sub. does not need to be anywhere near you to launch missiles. It could do this from the N.Atlantic.
I am as sure as anyone can be that there would be NO nuclear retaliation on Argentina unless it acquired these weapons and used them first.
Try using an adult perspective on life. There is no monster from outside lurking in the dark waiting to get you. You are in much more danger from your own bunch of crooked politicians.
Clyde great response to nostils. Unfortunately he will still not see reality as it is, he wears kirchner's sun glasses.
May 08th, 2014 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby has a remarkable ability to turn his craziness around and attribute it to us and not even realize he is talking about himself.
May 08th, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is in the water there?
So many Rg pols do the exact same thing.
@87
May 08th, 2014 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your assurances of non-retaliation/non-attack are only made on your behalf, not the UK's. So there, I am no longer making the “mistake”.
I really could care less about subs off-shore, countries with subs offshore Argentina (I'm sure there are many), and not just the UK (thus I don't complain about you), only demonstrate with such actions they have small penises and are trying to compensate elsewhere. Like men with big muscles or driving big trucks.
Have you ever asked yourself why you have nuclear weapons? Who is that big threat out there to the UK that you must have them? Surely even if such threat existed, you could still get rid of them as the USA could easily retaliate for you? (of course, I believe the USA should also get rid of the weapon, but again small penis complex at work).
@86
And you revealed even more, with that pellucid projection. You conjectured a scenario based on YOUR life experiences. So now I know how you were in your youth, and explains why today you tell all these stories about “argentines” you meet, and not one is ever ever a positive story. The odds...
@90 I draw on my personal experience and knowledge; we all do that. By contrast we can see you have very little life experience or knowledge.
May 08th, 2014 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The rest of your comment makes no real sense. My youth was nothing like your life. I worked and played hard because I was motivated to contribute to society.
My stories are never positive? There you go again, cherry picking to suit your persecution complex.
Elaine I give you credit for standing up and going toe to toe with stupidity.
May 08th, 2014 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity.”
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
For Argentina to accept to join the BRICS, they would have to undergo a bit of 'humility training“....because they would have to admit they are NOT part of the so-called 1st world, but part of the underdeveloped one.
May 08th, 2014 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 Brazzo, you've got one thing right when you say :-
”About China. From what I know, I enjoyed most of them“.....
I'm pretty sure you did, on all fours..
And in your ”Certainly, for me being a third world illiterate, I have no arguments and inexorable truths to discuss...etc”
Right again, you are illiterate. Who knows, if you studied you might be creative...in Ladies' fashion, perhaps ?
#90
May 08th, 2014 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your attitude at #82 seems to be, I will work when it suits me and when I have enough for my needs I will stop. Is this correct ?
I f so, then ALL other workers should be allowed the same concession.
Surgeons, doctors nurses, power workers, bus, train drivers and all other workers.
What happens then. Your country collapses into complete anarchy, nothing is done. There is no food, power, health care, schools, transport and your country degenerates into a tribal society with the strong preying on the weak. That is what you appear to advocate. Take from society and give little back - a rather selfish attitude..
“Have you ever asked yourself why you have nuclear weapons?”
Of course I have !
When the UK first acquired them, there was a definite danger of the Soviet Union using them against the UK. Then it was China under chairman Mao. When joint ultimate destruction was assured, it kept a de facto peace. With more unstable states trying to get their hands on nuclear weapons there is a definite possibility of them using them IF they thought there would be NO retaliation. If the UK got rid of all of them, it would not make any difference to nuclear disarmament. Other non-nuke countries would still want to get their hands on them. We have no expectations of the USA using their nukes for our protection. It would only be incidental to their national interest.
There's not much point continuing with this discussion. At your age your mind should be open to all points of view instead of fossilised.
Get 10 years under your belt and see how you feel then.
Well this is a very interesting review of Stratfor about latinamerican powers in the making...
May 08th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Winners Argentina and Mexico
Losers Brazil
There is somethings I agree with somethings I don't. A bit simplified is some ways but other aspects like geography have to be incorporated. Maybe the Indians do see something similar in the long term.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvpJWo0k6Fc
@92 It is worth the effort because, believe it or not, his views have changed over time. TTT is an angry young man with no idea of his future. His fear often appears in his posts, all wrapped up in bravado.
May 08th, 2014 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A lot of what is said to him does sink in. He refers back to it months later and although he says he despises pretty much every other country, he really just despises his own situation. I think it must be pretty grim and he doesn't have the emotional maturity to put things in perspective.
So, I think, in his case, it is worth responding because some of it actually gets through. Others, on here, not so much.
@94. Wise words to TTT. He hasn't quite thought through his selfish attitude to life.
Re: Nuclear weapons. The nuclear arms race probably has done more to prevent wars than any peace initiative could.
@96
May 08th, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then everyone should have nukes. You are very naïve. Nuclear weapons will be used, just because they have not until now means nothing.
@95
What is this GLOBAL obsession about Argentina “should be a world power”??
It is not. And it won't be.
IT ALREADY WAS.
History ran its course.
Why isn't ROME a world superpower???
@97
May 08th, 2014 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dont come around with your usual crap now... That is damn good review and I should believe a lot of people here will find it interesting as it takes a view on the región in a geographical point of view and it actually IS on topic.
That also explains why they consider Paraguay and Brazil the biggest manace on long term for Argentina
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVq29gM2YVY
95. He is a great speaker! Those were some good videos and spot on with his predictions! Doesn't look good for Brazil, but we all knew this.
May 08th, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you notice how everyone laughed when he talked about Argentina?
That happens in every Int'l org meeting.
Laugh and roll eyes.
@82 TBT
May 08th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I'll do enough to have good food and a couple of things I do enjoy buying, but that is it. I have absolutely no interest in being a pawn of dirty politicians that then only are interested in your vote”
I appreciate your response to my question. I appreciate that you don't believe in politicians contributing to the support of your own chosen lifestyle.
I want to ask:
If people who have chosen a similar “less demanding” lifestyle as yours find that there are a few more things they would enjoy buying, should they work more to have them? Or should the government help them out a bit?
@99
May 08th, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its a very interesting aproach to things, generally here one tends to look at numbers and proyections, exports, imports, fiscal aspects etc but completely forgets geography, climate and demographics.
I had no idea how much limitations Brazil had in that regard appart from all the poverty and problems they already have...They should be mass investing in railways, roads, canals and agriculture before hosting a world cup.
They are just as bad as Argentina but they have geography against them,
Funny that he doesnt mention Chile nor Colombia though. Im sure Colombia has more reason to be considered, for it has Access to both the Pacif and Atlantic Oceans and a lot of energy resourses and arable land it can recover from virgin forest that havent being seen to for so many years of war. Besides they have 20 million plus more people than Argentina.
101. DId you listen to the speech about China?
May 08th, 2014 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it seems the little islanders are jealous...lol
May 08th, 2014 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0well, they can be part of a club of penguins, if the colony of king penguins accept them.
or they can remain with successful countries like uganda, swaziland, mozambique, nigeria, etc in that joke of commonwealth.
@102
May 08th, 2014 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I have, it doesn't look good for China. It doesn't look good in fact for the many places of the world when the Chinese over production bubble explodes.
I was amazed about the Russian video, its hard to believe that the review is made before the Ukranian crisis and it explains way the Russians were so desperate to keep Kiev under control, it I is more enlightening and more clear than any article or analysis that I have read so far after February 2014. It has absolutely nothing do with NATO expanding, nor keeping the Sebastopol base at all. Russia will starve without cheap Ukrainian wheat.
104. Yep, The Russians are evil and they are desperately trying to cling to the last bit of empire before it literally dies away.
May 08th, 2014 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is very informative to see both Brazil and Russia after a decade of great income and supposed growth have such little and horrible infrastructure. They're doomed. They lost their opportunity.
It is also really sad, your country has the #2 spot for demographics and geography after the USA and through pure greed and corruption you're doomed to failure.
I said long ago I think the only way to fix this is with a dictatorship like Pinochet.
It will be a hard slog for a generation or two but it could be a very bright future for your kids and grandkids.
You really do not need a dictator to introduce a free market economy.
May 08th, 2014 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0106. I would agree with you if their history with “democracy” wasn't so abysmal.
May 08th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I really don't see any other way the unions, the massive amount of corruption, the will to succeed through honest work can be brought into their society without someone with immense power to make them come into line.
The only thing that STRATFOR likes when it makes these reviews for different countries, is centralized power. And Argentina has far too much of that and its part of the problem.
May 08th, 2014 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I’m wondering if the military has already going a process of ideologization by the Ks like they had in Venezuela.
What I think could do well is somebody like an Argentine Uribe, and in the political spectrum I don’t see anything like that. You would need somebody with character, willingness, perseverance and purposeness. There has being people and leaders in history that have lifted their country from ruin in years, however you do need a majority congress for that, so basically you are bound to deal with the Peronists unfortunately.
That being said the most anti peronist gov't (as far as policy is concerned) in recent democratic history was a peronist one itself.
Massa who I deeply distrust has moved forward the idea that mayors in the BsAs conurbano can’t run indefinitely for terms in local elections, and that is pretty revolutionary in itself. Something like that can destroy over time peronist stronghold power of the key suburbs of BA over time.
Dont forget that people that have destroyed power systems in history have had their origins in these very systems. Even in Argentine history there is cases of this. President Roque Saenz Peña literally destroyed oligarchic power by reforming the electoral system which had previously insured that the conservatives ruled over Argentina for the previous decades.
So probably and hopefully the cure to Peronism comes from Peronism itself.
I don't see it. After 30+ years of abject failure I can't see a white knight coming to the rescue now.
May 08th, 2014 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The people must we willing to accept austerity for a generation for a new system to take a hold and start working.
Htey hvae to change their very being, work hard, root out corruption, pay taxes, get an education, obey reasonable laws, you see where I am going.
Its just not bad enough yet.
The long and gradual decline is what is causing the problem. Every generation does with less and they accept it like it is a given.
( See Tobys 10MM comments)
Decline is not a given it is a choice
At some point the conservative minority must take control for the progressive majorities own good.
I don't think it will happen in your lifetime though.
I don’t know if you were around back then. I think Argentina would be a different place if only DLR would have stayed longer being more resolute and tough, enforced the labor flexibilization law in 2001 and keep up with the austerity measures that were already producing some good results. The trade balance was showing some positive trends even back then and soy was still round 150-2oo USD per ton. Amongst all the political un easiness that was besieging the DLR gov't there was some positive signs that went ignored.
May 08th, 2014 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If he would have remained just long enough to see the commodity boom of the 2000s we would be talking about the ARICS
I think and hope a good and honest review of the 1990s and early 2000s is needed, people have being lied to and brainwashed.
It’s a good thing that Chile and Peru are likely going to replace Argentina as the main third and fourth economies in South America by the end of this gov’t.
I moved to Argentina shortly after he was gone. It is really too bad the Ks took over with their Marxists policies. There was a chance in 2001 to actually fix this problem, the Rg society knew things were bad and Arg had decent relations with the outside world.
May 09th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0None of that exists today.
The biggest problem I see going forward is being out of status with the IMF. When this all comes crashing down, and it will, they won't be able to lend to you, the USA/UK/EU don't care if Argentina sinks, you have no friends of alliances that will help you except maybe Brazil but they have their own problems.
I really think the USA wants to use Arg as an example of what happens when you don't play by the rules.
I think we'll let you suffer for awhile before we let the IMF throw you a rope.
@111
May 09th, 2014 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It might have a fitting end where everyone gets what he gives...
DLR, Cavallo and Lopez Murphy will be absolved in history.
Duhalde the peronist plotter who had the government of DLR removed was removed himself and betrayed by Kirchner later. He only managed to be president for one year.
Kirchener died of a heart attack few years later
Her wife will never live in peace the rest of her life even if she escapes from jail.
And finally the people will pay dearly for populism, stupidity and the bad decisions they made...
Something is really fishy with BCRA and the Peso Exchange. Arg should be flooded with U$ from Soy sales right now
May 09th, 2014 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and its not
I wonder what is really going on?
If Argentina were an advanced economy, it wouldn't consider joining BRICS - it would be a member of the G8 (G9 including Russia)!!!!
May 09th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Considering the current state of the BRICS economies, internal politics and corruption, perhaps Argentina should indeed be there. After all, they killed off Mercosur, why not be the last nail in BRICS' coffin?
May 09th, 2014 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@100
May 10th, 2014 - 03:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0No. The only things that should be provided by the government are security, health care, education. Security because if you are not safe from enemies and criminals you cannot develop. Health care because if you are unhealthy you cannot produce or study, education because if you are safe and healthy you can study. Everyhing else should be dealt person t person or withn a mercantilist system. People should be charged per kilometer or street use for example.
“People should be charged per kilometer or street use for example.”
May 10th, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can you explain this?
#117
May 10th, 2014 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pretty simple, he advocates that if you have NO money you can't walk on the streets.
116
May 10th, 2014 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But it already does ....And they do that by taxing fuels and having toll roads
Yes, please explain pedestrian toll streets.
May 11th, 2014 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm agog!
Would children be charged to walk to school?
What happens if YOU are ill but but can't pay to travel to government provided hospital?
TTT is a confused chap. He really hasn't thought it through.
May 11th, 2014 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0What he seems to be suggesting would further exclude the poor from moving out of poverty and make any kind of movement a privilege for the wealthy.
Using his narcissistic viewpoint he has chosen something that he thinks would not affect him because his world is very small. He is, of course, completely wrong. It would affect everyone and make a far more unequal society.
Agree with ElaineB.
May 11th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@121
May 12th, 2014 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0What is wrong with people paying per use? I didn't mean walking and if you don't discern that you are a fool. I meant automobiles and the like. Yes, if you drive more you use more of the roads and their life, you should pay more.
Don't you pay more if you eat more or use more water and electricity?
The only things the government should cover is universal education, healthcare, and defense for minors and seniors. For working class adults should pay for education, for healthcare, and for defense. But the government has a role there in making sure there is no monopoly or capitalist system, it should be based on mercantilist policies where individuals have as MUCH rights as corporations. In capitalist societies it is the corporation that has more rights than individuals, and the results are evident in your declining countries.
TTT
May 12th, 2014 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please define
a) “your” declining countries, because I split my time between UK and Venezuela
b) the inverse, which must be 'your' own non-declining country.
Which is?
Clarification please.
123
May 12th, 2014 - 04:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Toby that is what more or less most western countries agree on. What you dont understand it is already there but by other names. Anti monopolium laws, reduced government expenditure and only on education, health and defence. I think that is more or less what traditional Adam Smith limited the “State” too.
Toby small Asian countries like Singapur, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan are far but far more free market than the western countries that all these posters like Elaine and ilsen come from. And they are doing much better in many ways.
125 CD2
May 12th, 2014 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice answer to Toby - maybe he will give it some thought, coming from a fellow Argentinian.
You 're right, free market economies with less Government intervention than ours, have many advantages in business.
Personally, I like a system that has some regulation as well. For example, a healthy population with reasonable access to medical care, is good for a country - less debilitating disease or medical conditions affecting the workforce, and less human tragedy, mental illness, lack of fulfilment leading to high social costs.
On the other hand, there needs to be good incentive to be industrious and innovative.
#123
May 12th, 2014 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0As someone who continually boasts of his language skills, I gave you the courtesy of assuming you meant what you said. If you wish your comments to be open to interpretation, so be it.
In the UK we DO pay for the use of our roads - indirectly.
We pay an annual rate of road tax on our cars related to the engine's CO2 emissions and excise duty plus vat on the fuel used to power them.
For a litre of diesel using an average pump price of £1.35, the tax works out at £0.58 duty and £0.23....£0.81. The retail cost without tax is £0.54. The bigger the car, the more you drive, the more you pay.
In London, you have the added congestion charge for bringing your vehicle into the city and are then hit with expensive parking charges if you decide to stop !
@123 “What is wrong with people paying per use? I didn't mean walking and if you don't discern that you are a fool. I meant automobiles and the like. Yes, if you drive more you use more of the roads and their life, you should pay more.”
May 12th, 2014 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0As fully explained @ 127, we already do that in the UK. If you travel by air, train or bus, there are taxes included in the fares.
But I am interested that you singled out travel for punitive taxes.
Whilst I agree about providing healthcare, education and security for the general public, it is NEVER free. It is free at the point of use, but it is still paid for. Your plan seems to leave out you paying anything into the system that pays for the services you want to be free at the point of use.
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