MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Malvinas and Bolivia's ocean outlet, the 'two open wounds' of Latin America
Latin America has two open wounds, the Malvinas Islands and Bolivia's sovereign outlet to the Pacific, said Bolivian vice-president Alvaro Garcia Linera in Mendoza, Argentina where he was awarded an 'Honoris Causa” for his commitment to regional integration and inclusion. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“There is no future for Latin Americans unless we think continental”
May 27th, 2014 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL
Watch out Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...you dont belong in “latin America” continent either
Colonialists cant help themselves can they? Latin Americans… wonder where they came from?
May 27th, 2014 - 08:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0More diplomacy, unnecessarily expended. Face facts, grow up, and, move on.
May 27th, 2014 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0anyone got a pot of salt?
May 27th, 2014 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bolivia lost to Chile and Spain lost to Britain - couldn't be simpler really. Bolivia lost territory and Spain lost territory. Argentina was never in the game.
May 27th, 2014 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0So they want Lebensraum, ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer.
May 27th, 2014 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't the Bolivians seize a corridor to the Ocean, through Argentina? After all, it's their continent it seems.
6
May 27th, 2014 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you don´t know very well where bolivia, chile and argentina are located, do you?
Hopefully, The ICJ will carefully read history books.
May 27th, 2014 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bolivia started the mess, by declaring a “State OF War” with Chile. Peru followed suit. A war broke and the two, Peru and Bolivia were badly defeated. Chile even captured Lima!
The three combatants signed several agreements rendering the territories Bolivia is now claiming. But my question is, why isn't Bolivia asksing the access to the sea from Peru? They can actually give a much better portuary access. Is it because the Bolivians want the very advanced infrastructure already built by the Chilean? Most probably.
At least Bolivia has the 'bottle' to take its case to the ICJ whereas Argentina doesn't even have a basic case to present.
May 27th, 2014 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is it about the people of the Falklands that so scares Latin America?
May 27th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They refuse to even talk to the Falkland Islanders, running away when talks were planned in London.
“There is no future for Latin Americans unless we think continental” said Garcia Linera:
That's all fine, however the Falklands are islands some 300 miles East of Patagonian.
So unless they build a really long bridge the Falklands are very much separated fro the South American continent.
“Malvinas and Bolivia's ocean outlet, the 'two open wounds' of Latin America”
May 27th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, rest it for 24 hours and if it still hurts tomorrow, maybe you can have a plaster ( band aid ) on it.
A $31.7 million wound perhaps?
May 27th, 2014 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bit sore about having to pay compensation for trying to steal an electricity company?
Hmmm...
@8 Ira
May 27th, 2014 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are quite correct, treaties were signed after the war that established the borders. Bolivia was foolish and Peru even more so in 1879, they still haven't come to terms with their loss.
We gave Bolivia free port access in Arica and built a railway from Bolivia to Arica for them which they make little use of. During Pinochet's time we agreed to give them access to the ocean but the plan was shot down by Peru. The problem for Peru is that any land we give Bolivia would have to be from land that Peru lost to us. It would also affect their maritime zone.
Peru also granted a stretch of coast to Bolivia, see here:
http://www.lacuarta.com/noticias/cronica/2013/03/63-152539-9-conoce-la-playa-que-peru-concedio-a-bolivia-y-que-no-usan.shtml
(I make no apology for reading La Cuarta)
On condition that Bolivia set up a Duty Free Zone and develop the area. That was in 1992. The beach is still as it was then, undeveloped.
We have given them infrastructure and opportunity and they have used neither. Their noisy complaining is like that of Argentina over the FI, mostly for domestic consumption.
They would do well to remember the fate of the defendants of the “unassailable” Morro de Arica before pushing too far.
C[ovadonga]
H[uáscar]
I[ndependencia]
L[amar]
E[smeralda]
!
@ 7 au contraire, my friend, hence the direction stated 'through Argentina' and 'the Ocean', after all, if the Chilean Army bars their way to the Pacific and they cannot bear to go through Peru, they still have one option of going with their friendly neighbour.
May 27th, 2014 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your snide remarks has gone Titicaca up.
@7 Of course we know where bolivia, argieland and, to a lesser extent chile, are. In the shite. In a different sphere, argieland and bolivia are high up on the RAF and RN target lists.
May 27th, 2014 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@10 Quite right. It's about time these latino numpties got a grip on reality. The UK is 20 miles from France. Does that mean that France belongs to the UK? In the right place, take one step from France and you're in Germany. Or Switzerland. What belongs to whom? The Falkland Islands are in the SOUTH ATLANTIC. Nothing to do with latin america.
@11 You have a point. However, we could also cut off the affected part and stuff it in the “excess parts” bin. Like medical students, we could then cut it up, try experimental “treatments” or even test it to destruction.
Condorito
May 27th, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No one really reads La Cuarta as much as the look at the scantily dressed ladies with big personalities... Never the less, I agree that Bolivia HAS almost unrestricted access via two countries to the Pacific. Even Paraguay has been given free port rights to the Chilean Pacific coast by treaty.
Like CFK, Morales is using ridiculous territorial rights to keep the populace unfocused on their real problems.
Regarding the Argentinian situation; I've already written that CFK may actually win the territorial debate in world opinion as several countries recently have been given certain financial and future trade incentives to recognize the pretensions of the Argentine government in respect to their “rebellious” provence of the “Islas Malvinas”.
A noted European head of state was quoted recently that the “...Falkland Islands” ...is nothing more than a “fictional delusion of foreign colonists that illegally continue to occupy the rightfully national territory of Argentina.”
Article below from The Sun (England's equivalent of La Cuarta)
This week the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, a monarchy led by polo fanatic Duchess Gloriana XIV, allegedly received eight Argentine polo ponies after her recent deciding vote and officially remarked that the term “Falkland Islands” was nothing more than a “fictional delusion of foreign colonists that illegally continue to occupy the rightfully national territory of my new most dearest Argentine friends.”
The Fenwick national parliamentary debate had been quite contentious over the past few weeks as the two political parties were tied in deadlock over the change of territorial recognition. The Dilutionists, led by David Bentner III (supported by ngthe Grand Duchess in the final vote) has purportedly been romantically involved in a scandalous relationship with the Argentinian model, Matilde Bonasera.
14
May 27th, 2014 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no.
you dont have the slightest idea.
go back to school
'Watch out Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana...you don't belong in “Latin America” ..' #1
May 27th, 2014 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please don't forget Belize - latterly British Honduras, a British-speaking country in Central Latin America.
It is MUCH more at risk of being taken over by the implanted 'Spanish' colonials than is The Falkland Islands.
Guatemala is moving large numbers of its nationals across the largely open border in order to establish them as voting 'Belizeans' - with a view to breeding their way to absorbing Belize into Guatemala. The President of Guatemala has publicly declared this.
The last time Britain defended Belize from Guatemala was in 1971. I understand that it is still used for jungle training by the British Army.
Britain may be called upon to defend Belize - but not, of course, as a Protectorate. The USA will NOT support Britain in any defence of Belize.
Seems that Bolivia is after Argentina's support. Well, it's found the right way to go about it.
May 27th, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the 'two open wounds' of Latin America
May 27th, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a bunch of twits,
seal the wounds with stitches and plaster, simple ,
or then again they could dig a very long trench from Bolivia to the nearest ocean,
and leave the Falkland's alone,
again simple ,, ,but not for a bunch of twits..lol
#2 Bolivia is Mostly native, so is its president.
May 27th, 2014 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#8 Chile invaded Antofagasta by landing on a city that did not have anything but a small police dept to defend itself, that was the Cause of the declaration, which of course Chile was hoping for. Advanced infrastructure please...
#12 Bolivia has plenty of cash, and is paying that with no objections.
#13 You can not build anything on a beach that you have no sovereignty over,
no roads, no electricity, no legal ownership, what would you do? Freeport acces in Arica, sure!, there are too many fees and violations of the original treaty to count here.
@BS
May 27th, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Chile invaded Antofagasta by landing on a city that did not have anything but a small police dept to defend itself”
Your lack of regional knowledge and wobbly English sounds all too familiar.
TWIMC
May 27th, 2014 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I “Think” this is an historical oportunity for my Shilean hermanitos to show their magnanimity and generosity towards our Bolivian hermanitos...
#22 Your is knowledge of events is obviously obtuse. I recommend you read those events from a non Chilean point of view and arrive at your own conclusion.
May 27th, 2014 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 Think
May 27th, 2014 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Welcome back.
We already did that. Not only did we not chastise Bolivia, but we gave back vast areas of Peru to Peru. That is generous considering the way they behaved: firstly getting involved, secondly not surrendering after losing Arica; thirdly not surrendering after losing Lima.
@BS
Yeah right. A city settled by Chileans, inhabited by Chileans, worked by Chileans and economically tied in to Chile was de facto Chile. The confirmation of that would have happened sooner or later.
Which treaty has Chile violated? Please tell.
BS is full of...BS.
May 27th, 2014 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Possession is 99% of the law and we stole our northern regions fair and square.
Just like many of our other Latin neighbors have done as well, including dear Argentina. (Although the last time tried to do it, they got their heads pounded with the PM's handbag...)
Now, now, Shilean hermanitos...
May 27th, 2014 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That´s neither magnanimous nor generous...
#25 Treaty of Paucarpata, Treaty of 1874, Treaty of 1904. now find out how, if you want I wont tell you.
May 27th, 2014 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25 Read about majority minorities, by your logic many cities/provinces/states should be in control of other nations, why its it not so?
May 27th, 2014 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why is Paulie still here?
May 27th, 2014 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He hates this website and all that post here. His level of English is barely comprehensible, yet he still posts his whiney, angry shite.
Why does he bother?
@Think
May 27th, 2014 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's as magnanimous and generous as it is going to get.
@BS
The first treaty you mention was from the war of the Confederation not the war of the Pacific; the second treaty was between Bolivia and Peru - nothing to do with Chile and the 1904 treaty has been fulfilled to the letter by Chile (bolivia are now attempting to claim it was signed under duress).
So, zero from 3.
Well, it seems no one has a sense of humor...
May 27th, 2014 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...in my humble opinion, you are doomed to endless debate...
Whether you smile, laugh, frown or cry...death eventually will come...
@ Chicureo
May 27th, 2014 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How can you say no one has a sense of humour in a thread where La Cuarta is referenced; Bolivia “has plenty of cash”; and an Argie suggests Chile gift land to a neighbour ... it's pure comedy!
“TWIMC
May 28th, 2014 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I “Think” this is an historical oportunity for my Shilean hermanitos to show their magnanimity and generosity towards our Bolivian hermanitos...”
Think
Chile would not give any territory unless it borders Peru because otherwise it would split Chile in two. But it can't give that territory without Peru's consent. Peru probably won't give consent without getting something in return from Bolivia. I'm not aware that Bolivia has ever made any offers to Peru in return for that consent. If it hasn't made any offers then the ball is in Bolivia's court.
Bolivian has just one main problem......to have too much Bolivian born people.....!!!
May 28th, 2014 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Switzerland, Austria and a lot of other landlocked countries aoraund the world have a very good level of life for their citiziens and no one of them has the facilities to get the nearest coast as Bolivia has due a treaty that Chile has respected hundred per cent from its signing, with no cost for it.
Hope Chilean Gvt. will reject the ability of the ICJ at Hague to review the valid treaty that is working right now from the early 20th century.....
The fact that Bolivia is landlocked is just an excuse to justify the low capability of its leaders and people in general to develope like other countries in the region, at least....
Sooooooo.....R. I. P. Bolivia and bolivians.......!!!
The Falklands issue is an diversion for the Argentines so they don´t claim against their Gvt. to improve the situation, social and economic, that is going dawn day by day....
And, both of them aren´t regional issues but fake unilateral issues raised just for internal political crisis that needs to be hidden....even involving third parties with no reason at all....
Better the regional leaders waist their time solving real problems that affect the life of millions of LA citizens living under poverty, oppression, corruption, etc., because their own inability to rule their countries......instead of be involved in fake facts that don´t helps anyone to improve his life conditions.....
And I´m not neither racist nor clasist.....at all...!!!! Just realistic.....!!!
“Switzerland, Austria and a lot of other landlocked countries aoraund the world have a very good level of life for their citiziens and no one of them has the facilities to get the nearest coast as Bolivia has due a treaty that Chile has respected hundred per cent from its signing, with no cost for it.”
May 28th, 2014 - 04:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sergio,
Switzerland doesn't need port facilities in other countries as it has access to the sea via the Rhine. Switzerland has its own Merchant Marine based at the city of Basel.
There is a proposal to develop the Paraguay and Parana rivers as a shipping channel, which would give Bolivia navigable access to the sea, but I think the project is currently on hold due to environmental concerns.
“Open Wound”? The only “wounds” vis a vis the Falklands would be those suffered by the legitimate inhabitants of the islands during the illegal invasion in 1982.
May 28th, 2014 - 08:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0IIRC, the only “wound” remaining from then would be the landmines illegally planted by Argentina to try to keep their ill-gotten gains following the invasion. (Islanders feel free to point out anything else).
No apology has been made for this, which needs to change.
I think that Eduardo Galeano has recently said that his book on the 'open wounds' argument is a load of old cods.
May 28th, 2014 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I guess this Bolivian Vice Pres. just isn't up to speed.
I think that the Cowpat needs treading on, BIG TIME.
May 28th, 2014 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For those who have never trodden on a cowpat, they are full of shit and inhabited by dung insects.
Much like Morales's head in fact.
#31 You need to stick to reading cartoons, as your reading comprehension is that of a 5th grader. wrong on all counts, sheep.
May 28th, 2014 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@40
May 28th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You being wrong about Chile's adherence to post war treaties has nothing to do with my reading comprehension and lots to do with the level of education you have received.
Just in .... Chilean university tops the regional ranking 2014:
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings-articles/latin-american-university-rankings/brazil-loses-out-chile-new-qs-university-rankings-latin-america
I tried to find Mendoza in the ranking but couldn't. Perhaps that was my reading comprehension or perhaps I got bored of reading sooooo far down the list. :-(
@37
May 29th, 2014 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0You will get an apology when Britain apologizes for all its wars.
Which means you will never see an apology.
Look, I have to agree that there was a war and Bolivia lost. But those blasting Bolivians for “not developing”, well, the Bolivian culture is not a culture that revels in greed and capitalism. They are a more communalistic society, as were many native American groups. I think it should be respected that they have no interest in the “western” mindset of money, greed, and power.
@42 Toby
May 29th, 2014 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No one is blasting Bolivia for being underdeveloped. The Bolivians themselves blame their lack of development on not having access to the sea. It is that victim mentality that many are rightly blasting.
If the “communalistic [Bolivian] society” would respect the territory of the “western” Chileans, we would all get along fine. The coastal dwellers of Chango decent are a belligerent group as were many native Chilean groups. Warning: the seal-skin canoas have been upgraded.
41 Condorito,
May 29th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Congrats to the PUC. Its an outsanding result. One of the first things that I respect in a country is how their universities and superior education are treated, and it proves that Chile is excelling in that. Good administration and meritocracy are the keys, pretty much the opposite we saw in USP in recent years, thanks to the pseudo-leftist populism that is so common in our Academic milieu. There's a lot of discussion here in Brasil about it since this ranking came out.
Anyway, it's just one more aspect where Chile is able to give lessons in LA. One out of many.
““We Latin Americans have two open wounds: the Malvinas Islands which are Latin American and Argentine and our sovereign outlet to the Pacific Ocean”.....
May 29th, 2014 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Garcia Linera's comments are not only innacurate but pathetic. The Falklands are in the South Atlantic, not in Latin America. As for the “sovereign outlet”, if instead of Evo “idiot” Morales and Garcia Linera playing victim, they got down to serious negotiations to implement their passage to the Pacific Ocean, via the concession of 1992 (as mentioned by Condorito@13), the issue could be settled.
Am not sure exactly when, but about 10 years ago, or maybe less, Brazil and Peru signed an agreement whereby Brazil would gain access to the Pacific, via a highway to be built from the midwestern State of Mato Grosso, on the Brazilian side, through Peruvian territory, and to be funded by both countries. I mention this because at the time, the company I worked for (a global carrier) was approached by the owners of shipping agencies, terminals and bonded warehouses in the Peruvian port (to be) linked to the highway (which, if not mistaken, was quite close to completion), to see if there was any interest in our using this route as alternative (to the Panama canal) for containers moving to the Far East. At the time, we checked with the main shippers located southeast Brazil, and the initiative was received rather tepidly, due to the additional trucking / border costs. Don't know actual status of this project, but perhaps cheaper oceanfreight Peru/Far East, plus reduced maritime transit-time, have become a major factor for shippers (of agricultural produce and beef) located in the midwestern region of Brazil.
“We Latin Americans have two open wounds“
May 29th, 2014 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like almost every Latin American wound-totally self-inflicted.
”We have to plan, organize and generate from our minds”.
But with the complete ignorance of cause and effect, and by living in fairy land.
@42
May 29th, 2014 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> You will get an apology when Britain apologizes for all its wars.
How fortunate is Argentina, to have got from the UK a carte blanche that allows it to do whatever it likes with impunity.
Let the Malvnistas note that a great British tradition of the sport of Rugby Union shows our respect for Argentina
May 30th, 2014 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10862967/Dean-Ryan-picks-five-All-Blacks-in-strong-Barbarians-side-to-play-England-at-Twickenham-on-Sunday.html
Ah, these are real “wounds.” No kidding!
May 31st, 2014 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
Both governments, Argentina's and Bolivia's, are populist and rely on demagoguery - they don't really believe in what they say. In practice joining the Falklands request to the bilateral negotiation Chile- Bolivia diminishes the possible resolution of both causes.
Jun 01st, 2014 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!