MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina will pay 92% of restructured bonds, hopefully 100% of debt, but will not accept extortions
President Cristina Fernandez pledged on national television late Monday that Argentina will abide and honor its debts, the 92% of those who trusted in the country and hopefully the 100% of creditors, but will not accept 'extortions'. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI already posted on this in another thread but, in addition, it beggars belief that she still doesn't understand how her arrogance makes the situation worse for Argentina. Her mouthing off about disregarding the courts decisions prior to the verdict lost her country any good-will. At the end of her speech we see the same massive ego on display when she crows that she always knew this would be the outcome, unlike her cabinet and top officials. Well that's OK then, she will have made plans to settle.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 07:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!”
Jun 17th, 2014 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's also difficult to claim poverty when only last year she was shouting out to the world about how much reserves Argentina had.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0We all know she was lying about the reserves, the usual INDEC mark up, for domestic consumption, but these stupid Argentine politicians don't appear to understand that the rest of the world can hear them too.
So you can't claim to have billions of USD in reserve, then in the next breath claim to be too impoverised to pay your bills.
The Argies will default on the present restructured and reissue them in BA. Argentina already has the list of the 93%.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Restructured Bonds and extortion in the same sentence.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's a good one tell it to the 92% of the people your paying back 25c on their dollar. They know all about extortion.
What sort of idiot lends a government money in the first place? Particularly one like Argentina. You are partaking in the proceeds of the future taxation of others.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0However, good on the Vulture 'Condor' funds. Performing a useful service to the world, showing up defaulting thieves for what they are.
If they fight this,the legal bills will soon be bigger than the debt,and back into isolation they go!
Jun 17th, 2014 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0@4 Yes, probably. But then Singer will just ask the courts to seize funds held in the US. So Argentina will end up paying.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I 'Think' this is all wonderful. Hopefully it will break them. This rottern Argentinian government should be totally destroyed, their corrupt assets siezed and they should all rot in a squalid gaol. Pot banging and riots to look forward to…
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“NML sought data from Bank of America and state-owned Banco de la Nacion Argentina, which has a branch in New York, about accounts held by Argentine government entities and by individual officials.”
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure a few officials in CFK'c government and her family are worried about this ruling.
@8
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0What funds on the US? There are none.
Simply the best news ever.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0First the court rejects Argentina's appeal against an order to pay more than $1.3bn to hedge funds then bondholders won the right to use US courts to force Argentina to reveal where it owns assets around the world.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tick tock Cristina, looks like Argentina is on the brink of yet another default.
@4, 11. Sorry, bummer, you're biased. Looking forward to seeing argieland's next attempt at criminal evasion. I trust that you understand that you are part of “the enemy”. I hope that Singer & co pay no attention to you. You need to suffer!
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0@11 Why do you say there are none? Have you checked or did the supreme court rule in favour of your case a coupole of months ago thus allowing you to supeaona info on thier assets?
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Afterall, they do own the shares in YPF, government assets....listed on the NY stock exchange...that's one set of assets right there
Argentina and individuals in the Argentine government have plenty of assets abroad.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0CFK made a huge mistake when she started dipping into the reserves.
@10 you hit the nail on the head. If news comes out of Cfk's and other officials' accounts or holdings, it will be difficult to lie them away. That ruling is potentially more damaging to her personally than the other.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0@15
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0But ypf has few assets in America.
@16
Most other countries have anti vulture laws so Singer will not be able to get assets.
TMBOA has clearly completely lost the plot: like many argies on here she does not seem to understand what went on with the court system in the US.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I supposed that is difficult when you realise the corruption in The Dark Country extends to most of the judiciary as well. Just why didn't Obuma tell them what to do? It wasn’t for the lack of trying and the US Prosecutor General Donald Verrilli's backside must be pretty sore today with SCOTUS kicking it out of the court, together with a flea in his ear.
The facts are now plain if we believe that all they have in cash is USD 7 Bn and I for one do not, they still have to pay for the gas this winter and the indications are it is going to be a cold one.
They are broke, a busted flush and nobody will lend them any money, except perhaps for “No Money Pepe” and WE are broke as well. I can just imagine the size of the electricity bill that The Dark Country owes to Uruguay after Pepe rushed headlong to help them out when the lights were off thinking he would get some kudos out of it. Well we did TMBOA are going to the ICJ to waste more money and ours on a futile SECOND attempt to disgrace us.
Although TMBOA will do everything in her power to bring everybody down with her and the fall will have a significant effect I just hope that it results in a better government for OUR sake: but I doubt it, Argentina have a record of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory going back to the formation of the “Republic”.
LEPRecon hits the head on the nail...
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0This was a disaster and the immediate consequences are only an indication of what is next....
“Argentina's Merval stock index dropped 11 percent after the court decision, its largest one-day loss in more than six months. Share prices for the state-run YPF energy company fell nearly 13 percent, while the Edenor electricity utility plummeted 20 percent. The cost of insuring Argentine bonds against default soared, and the value of Argentina's currency plunged to 12 pesos to the dollar on the black market, implying a 33 percent loss to anyone needing to buy foreign currency legally.”
Time to declare a political and environmental war with Uruguay.... (just maybe they can kick their arse)
I have read a lot of articles today on the idiotic speech CFK made last night. You should read the comments on FT! It is shocking there are what appears to be educated Rgs that are just as delusional as the gov't. Maybe they're paid supporters but sheesh. Their backward logic is frightening.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0As I expected Arg lost.
They will default because I can't imagine they will be able to find a bank that will issue payments against a NY court order.
Even Banco Nacion has branches in the USA, Griesa could and would shut them down if they were in contempt of court. He's already said he has plenty of ways to compel Argentina to adhere to the ruling.
I am sure they are looking to seize the BCRA BIS accounts, YPF stock and wouldn't it just be lovely if they had their Embassies Seized!
I would be right in front watching as the Secret Service threw everything on the sidewalk.
And laugh and laugh
@21
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0So yo enjoy watching a crooked Wall St banker rob my grandmother. Typical of you Americans. I hope you freeze them to death next winter instead of her.
22. The only crooks in this situation are the Ks. If your g'ma is in BA she probably will freeze. I suggest you bring her to a civilized country while the planes are still flying into the country.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0@23
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She is in Hull England. She is waiting for her payment at the end of the month. Looks like she's going hungry. Croocked Wall St bankers don't think about the small people they just want more money.
@22 I don't think the Argentine government that borrowed outrageously, spent fecklessly and then refused to pay their debt cared much about the Italian grandparents that lost their pensions.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you really care about your grandmother you should demand that CFK and all her corrupt family and cronies that have stolen from your country repay all the money. That would be a good starting point.
at 25
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do not understand what you mean by Italian. What do you mean money stolen from Britain. my grandmother has been paid. singer want to take money from my grandmother for himself.
@21
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yankeeboy is spot on and tells it like it is (as usual). The FT today pulls no punches
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1cf4230-f5d7-11e3-afd3-00144feabdc0.html#axzz34tinoc5J
and the Lex column journalist said in an interview on 2 June 2014 that the Paris Club deal is that they will get “at least as good terms” as the holdouts get in their negotiations.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1cf4230-f5d7-11e3-afd3-00144feabdc0.html#axzz34tinoc5J
@26 You don't understand? When the Argentine government defaulted who do you think it hurt? The people that had invested their money to see them through their old age. Overnight their money was wiped out, many of them in Italy. There are always consequences. You are right that it is always the 'little' people that are hurt the most. Argentina hurt a lot of 'little' people when they defaulted, Investors (mostly 'little' people) and Argentines that lost everything (mostly 'little' people).
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When the K's stole all that money from the 'little' people of Argentina and fecklessly used it to shore up her position of power to continue stealing do you think she was worrying about the 'little' people. Now they will suffer again.
If you have followed my posts you will know how much I despise the Argentine government for the very reason that it hurts the 'little' people of Argentina - a country I have great affection for. They have suffered and will suffer again. Though not your grandmother. If she is safely in England she will not starve.
@18 Come on, please engage brain.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“@15 But ypf has few assets in America.” What about the value of thier stock...which is owned by the government?
one problem is the incompetence and corruption of this k government and another is the existence of vulture funds.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hedge funds should be banned as the u.n. has already claimed.
they buy bonds in the secondary market for cents and they gain 1000% in +/- 10 years through speculation.
so, putting aside if the country affected is argentina or any other, the thing is that a son of a bitch like singer will obtain hundreds of millions of dollars, to his already billionaire fortune, at the expense of more unemployment and hunger.
@24 BB
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your Grandma and other Grandmas were cheated when Argentina sold her the bonds, with no intention of paying her back.
By saying “those that trusted in Argentina” she means the mostly German , Italian pensioners that invested in Argentina and got a quarter of their money back .
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was wondering what reply she would give .... I kind of knew the answer but thought there might just be a chance she would sit down and work something out with the holdouts but alas she got out of her pram again and it will all end in tears now .... another missed opportunity
have just been talking to my relatives in Argentina and they told that “regular” people don't understand why CFK, and the Government, went so far with this issue.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having negotiated an arragement with the funds would not have been so expensive. It's just U$D 1.300 million. Reaching a private arragement would have been better for both sides and would protect Argentina, and the rest of the countries that had reorganized the payment of their international debts, from further claims.
Most probably, CFK was cheated by her advisors and even by the lawyers. Anyway, this is just another proof of her isolation from reality. In addtion, like in many other things she doesn't have a “B” plan to be applied “just in case”. It's an ongoing improvisation..... noy a single country can be ruled this way.
I seem to remember a few weeks ago the Arg gov't said PUBLICLY they would adhere to any decision by SCOTUS.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are a bunch of scumbag liars.
At some point you'd think the peasants would storm the palace gates.
I am practically giddy.
Next months are going to be hard time for those who are living in Argentina. And this new crisis will affect our neighbours...mainly Uruguay and Brazil.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So presumably they will not have enough money to buy refurbished military aircraft from Spain or Israel, shame.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK really is bonkers, announces to her country how rich they are them whines that they cannot pay off their foreign debts.
The constant sniveling every time Argentina has a world stage, banging on about The Falklands is getting really boring.
Most countries ignore Argentina, but at some point someone will crack, and tell them to shut up.
Just because a third party country agrees talks are good doesn't mean they actually side with Argentina.
In reality it does not matter how many countries of institutions actually agree the Argentinian position.
The people of the Falkland Islands have expressed the democratic and international recognized as fair and legitimate view that they do not want to be colonized by Argentina.
It matters not at all that Argentina screams about this and that.
The people of the Falklands wish to remain a British Overseas Territory.
Can anyone from Argentina tell me why you are so scared of actually talking to the people of the Falkland Islands?
@33
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Negotiated an agreement?
The Vultures never WANTED an agreement nor to negotiate? Are you so gullible to believe capitalist lies?
Think about this... how is it that the same people (here and in the capitalist media), who have been crying for Argentina to pay the hold-outs, because it would be “good for Argentina too”, in the next breath are predicting a “crash” when Argentina is forced to pay them?
How would an economic crash be good for Argentina too?
There won't be such a crash anyway. Argentina will perform a 'technical' default, reissue bonds outside the USA legal system, and will invoke national security in US courts in terms of assets overseas.
The crony paid-off US justice system (one of the most corrupt on Earth), will then have nothing, for good.
37. I think you are probably right and I would love that to happen! I really hope that is the path CFK chooses for Argentina.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will be fun to watch all the Int'l companies leave, you wouldn't even be able to grow Soy competitively any longer!
I hope hope hope that's what they choose!
@37
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And then you'll wonder why the cruel, cruel world so inexplicably fails to love Argentina.
If all international companies leave, then CFK will have billions and billions in left-behind infrastructure and companies to re-privatize to raise cash.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That and the steps I mentioned above with lower spending and a devaluation to drop imports, and the fact that a full default would then save Argentina money that would go to service debt could keep the country going for at least 2-3 more years. By then some scheme would be set up outside US law and probably all of the above would be pleased to do it in order to prove the USA is no longer required to invest.
Yeah just like when the USA left Cuba. How'd that work out for them? T
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's plenty of evidence to show you that trying to set up a financial structure outside of the USA will make you very poor very quickly, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Burma, etc etc etc. Glad to see that you want to add yourself to that list.
Do you like bread lines?
@37 Have you been smoking weed?
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funds have always wanted to reach an agreement. For Argentina it would have been better to reach a private agreement so the “pari passu” clause cannot be instantly applied to the rest of the bond holders. At leat to gain some time (a cuople of years) to make payments in a more organized way.
“reissue bonds outside the USA legal system”????...CFK govenrment have already issued new bonds inside the USA legal system. Repsol bonds, Chevron agreement to explore Vaca Muerta..etc. CFK, and her people, are not a revolutionary government at all, they are just another corrupt goverment. It's time you stop writing childish comments !!!...don't you think so? Grow up !!!
@36 Argentina will not get any new material to it's defense forces no matter this. It's CFK political decision. It's not about money.
It might sound good for you but it's not a good think at all in terms of protecting the current status of the South Atlantic Ocean....FI are part of it..it might happen that you, and we, need someone protecting the area...and you will have alone. You will have to take the risks, and the responsability, of pusshing Argentina to be unarmed. Argentina is a Western country after all.
In addition, I don't think Argentina is scared about FI people. It's just diplomacy. If FI people are as british as Londoners why would an Argentine government contact London authorities? Or FI authorities? There is a British Embassy in Buenos Aires. If the British govenrment wants to have it's relationship with Argentina ruled and conditined by 2.000 people it's up to them.
I still don't undertand why 2.000 people can be conditioning the relationship between two countries of 42 million people (Argentina) people and 64 million people (UK). It doesn't sound logic.
HAHAHA comparing Cuba (a tiny island next to Florida in 1959 was OWNED by US companies), & Argentina 7th largest country with far more diversification & not even remotely close to being “owned” in a literal sense by US interests.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those countries you mentioned also implemented extreme economic systems, just like Capitalism is extreme (as we now see in the unprecedented decision of US courts that Bankruptcy is now officially a crime), so is Marxism.
Since investors who invest in bonds post-Argentina are guaranteed full return plus interest (in effect, a “riskless risk”) if you can believe what capitalists have now created, what will happen now is the following:
1. I can invest tomorrow in the bonds of Colombia, put my entire life savings, sell my house, everything. I simply await the Vultures to initiate a speculative attack on Colombia, even if they are doing everything right, in order to make the value of the bonds collapse. As this is occurring I put in the rest of my savings in bonds that used to cost 1 peso now cost 22 cents.
Then when the country defaults, I along with the vultures sue, and I get a 4000% return on my money, instead of just 5% as in the original market interest. Not bad.
2. It also means Europe is now phucked as Greece will never get out of their crisis, since it was a 'voluntary' agreement to shave their debt in half. Now any party can change their mind & sue Greece. The other Europeans will have to fork billions upon billions more, or let Greece go.
3. In which case Ireland, Iceland, Spain, Portugal immediately go. Then Italy, France, and the Netherlands are put in huge pressure since they have softness in their systems.
Within the corporate sector in the USA/UK, etc lending for companies and venture capitalist will dry out. Why lend to them and risk a default of bonds / stock of corporate entities when I can invest in a country and always get my cash back?
Then there's China vs USA debt with this precedent.
Disaster ahead.
Fools.
@30 paulcedron
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with that, but there is another item missing: the electorate that continues to elect leaders that do not serve Argentina's interests.
In 2002 when there was a run on Uruguay's banks, they chose an intelligent strategy of compromise with their creditors. By 2005 they were in the clear and always maintained credibility with the financial markets. If Argentina had chosen a less arrogant and obstinate course of action they would have averted this crisis years ago.
IMO the US justice system has arrived at the wrong result, but Argentina chose to put itself at their mercy by firstly issuing bonds in their jurisdiction and secondly consistently choosing the least sensible strategies after the default.
Your education is an embarrassment, there's so much wrong with that post I don't even know why I'd bother responding. Maybe someone else has time.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW you'd probably be interested to know that your largest employers are Int'l companies.
I'd love to see Argentina build its own car! Bahahaha
Silly stupid provincial
The funny thing is you think you are smart
its sad and funny at the same time
There's a certain person keeping his head down today ..LOL
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are just on “vulture” in this game: the Argentine government who doesn't want to honor the country's debt...the rest are “bla bla bla”....as I have already told you. Check and you will see how this Goverment had already released new bonds under the legal protection of the NY State.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@42
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Funds have always wanted to reach an agreement. For Argentina it would have been better to reach a private agreement so the “pari passu” clause cannot be instantly applied to the rest of the bond holders. At leat to gain some time (a cuople of years) to make payments in a more organized way.”
You are an imbecile. Sorry.
Why would I reach an agreement with YOU at 70% of my money when by LAW I can get 150% of it back? You have the gullibility of a 3 year old running up to you with candy.
Argentina defaulted because it did not have the funds to service debt in 2001. A couple of years would have made no difference when you had to pay all of your debts in full plus interest no negotiations no chance for a bankruptcy proceeding.
Given this decision the best choice now is to not pay ANYONE, the more I think of it. Argentina could then argue it defaulted WAY before this US courts decision to outlaw sovereign default and restructuring of debt. Who is now truly fucked is EVERYONE else. Eventually countries all over the world will need debt restructuring including Condorito's precious Chile.
They will be screwed.
So will the precious UK that already needed once to be saved in 1974. It will happen again and this time they will have no options as they will be sued for full payment.
So of course will the rest of Europe and the USA eventually. Printing dollars won't help, the Chinese will sue arguing monetary manipulation to lower the debt, and they should win given yesterday's decision. If not, they'll simply cut funding to the USA and bye bye yankeeboy.
Long term, Argentina will be the LEAST affected by this. Mark my words, the rest of you are now SCREWED! :)
@44
Another imbecile rewriting history.
@46
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gone to look for an eraser do do some unchecking ; )
@ 49 Do they still sell Tippex ?
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@toby
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Long term, Argentina will be the LEAST affected by this. Mark my words, the rest of you are now SCREWED! :)”
You should be as happy as Singer today then.
@48
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As the typical argentine fascist-peronist you cannot discuss without insulting. I agree with yankeeboy...I don't have time for such stupid discussions either. I'm sorry.
40. I find it hilarious that the Rg Pols are all out saying but but but we came into alignment with PC IMF Repsol, see we aren't scofflaw deadbeats why oh why make us go through such shame now?
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Silly delusional idiots
2-3 mos of trying to look like you care
when everyone knows the truth
I guess Think is unchecking all those boxes now
I do hope they send retarded AxelK to negotiate
Instead of owing U$15B they'll end up paying U$20B!!
I actually am. This is not me saying it.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina already has suffered most of the damage from its default.
Most other countries in the world are fully integrated to the system and depend on it completely. The last 20-30 years have shown that countries (on their own accord) can quickly go from unassailable to desperately crippled financially: I already mentioned the UK in 1974... how about Japan Inc. blowing up in 1989, then there's Sweden in 1992 almost going belly-up, Soros attacking the UK pound in the same year, then Mexico in 1994 Tequila crisis, then the Asian Financial crisis almost destroying the Asian tigers South Korea, Hong Kong, Thailand, Indonesia, etc... that two years before were predicted to become world powers; then Russia in 1998, Brazil 1999, Turkey 2002, then the USA financial meltdown of 2009, Europe's crisis of 2011-2013)...
So imagine what will happen now that sovereign debt negotiations are officially ILLEGAL under US law.
Death nail to capitalism. Come the next debt crisis, NONE of you have a way out. You have tough tough years ahead (your children probably, who will be much much poorer than you!).
And the other consequence is likely that now every country in the world will avoid the US financial system. So in effect, the USA just shot itself too. I just read that in the FT! This is going to be more harmful to the USA than to Argentina, the analyst was saying that in effect, the USA is risking losing a grip on the world's finances by scaring everyone away since now under US law debt restructuring is de facto a crime that can be sued for!!
HAHAHAHA... you are right Condorito. I am loving this decision.
@52 pgerman
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Luckily not even the K inner circle are as retarded as Toby. In fact this crisis might give Kicillof the chance to push forward his timid orthodox normalisation of the economy.
@55
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually this decision has now DESTROYED orthodox philosophy in Argentina for good and for EVER! It will be blamed (not the debt default), if things get worse in the next few months (which they probably will, just not a crash).
Now capitalism is dead in Argentina. For good.
@55
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The issue is that they started trying to normalize the economy (with some orthodox solutions) forced by reallity (not by belief) but they have no political support now to do anything. Nowbody (by “nobody” I mean those who make investments or have some savings) trust her, and the government. What can be done in such a situation?
@57
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly. If things really get rough, the blame will be on Orthodox policy.
This decision could lead to an even more extreme future president with even more belligerent foreign policy. And no chance at orthodox economics ever coming back!
Thank you US courts!
56
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Capitalism is NOT dead in Aargh
only CFK's administration and Foreign Investment, for a time.
Someone's trying to put a brave face on things......chuckle
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I heard a little rumor that CFK and minions had bet some of their stolen loot on Arg bonds and winning at SCOTUS.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No wonder she looks like someone hit her in the head with a frying pan.
@59
Jun 17th, 2014 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You really think my generation, the 18 to 20-somethings will forget?
Keep dreaming. Now we will become even more hostile to foreigners. I love it.
The only down side for me will be Bono release a charity song for the starving argys...
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@56 /57
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those making decisions know that the current crisis is there own making and not the fault of Kicillof's recent timid steps towards normalisation. They now have no option but to continue with the normalization and to negotiate with the holdouts... or default.
Toby, you already have a capitalist system within the county. The high degree of state intervention only guarantees that it never works properly.
@61
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My brother told me that a couple of hours before the Government decided no to pay the yearly cupons of the bonds by changing the official data of the GDP growth some brokers (alerted by “insiders”) started desperately selling and getting rid of these bonds. SO, it's quite clear that there are people from the Government that are making money with the access to a privileged information. That is legally a serious offense
@48 Troll
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“They will be screwed. So will the precious UK that already needed once to be saved in 1974. It will happen again and this time they will have no options as they will be sued for full payment.”
In 1974 the UK did indeed need a loan from the IMF. In the end we didn't draw the full amount of the loan and we repaid what we borrowed in full. Today we are a major contributor to IMF loans made to other countries. So those who loan to us should absolutely demand to be repaid in full as indeed they will be and always are. That's why they are happy to loan to us. Have you seen the value of sterling at the moment?
Axel Kicillof is to address the nation at 6:00 p.m.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TTT you don't have any assets or money as you have told us many times. You don't understand that Kicillof for all his claims of being a leftie has done nothing but try to reach agreements to get back into the capitalist markets. Have you even considered why?
And didn't Kicillof throw a pink fit when he was told he was only getting a fraction of the WB payment he wanted? Why do you think that is?
Further more, last night CFK said something along the lines of “It’s absurd and impossible for a country to use over 50 percent of its foreign currency reserves to pay a a group of creditors at once,” Which means they really do not have much money left.
Whether Argentina pays up or (more probably) not, they need money and they can't get it. They really are screwed.
Don't Cry for Thee, Argentina
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Buenos Aires deadbeats lose 7-1 at the Supreme Court
On one side are U.S. investors and the rule of law, and on the other are Argentinian deadbeats and their pals in the Obama Administration. Muchas gracias, the second group lost big at the Supreme Court on Monday in a 7-1 rout.
Love it!
@66
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You didn't read my posts didn't you? Nor did you read about economic history.
Countries can go from “healthy” to “on the brink” in no time.
In the future it will be worse because of computers making the decisions, and because the US courts have now said bankruptcy of nations is not a legal recourse, which opens the flood gates for Vulture funds to launch speculative attacks (with no economic fundamentals) against any nation to bring their bonds down to cents and then force a default to sue for full payment.
@67
Yes, to save their political skins. The country does not really need the funds, they need the funds to keep funding superfluous things like 3 billion a year for AR, 600 million a year for football, 1 billion a year for subsidies of rich corporations electricity, etc.
Like I said earlier,time to change the nation's focus...
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Attack Uruguay... ...cry about their stolen islands...
Or....
...win the World Cup.... Well, no that's ridiculous....
Ah the hatred now out in full finally.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@71
Jun 17th, 2014 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only “hatred” here is from you directed at foreigners in general, which is ungrateful given the time so many foreigners here take to help you with your education.
“which is ungrateful given the time so many foreigners here take to help you with your education”....ja ja ja !!!
Jun 17th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Forgetting the pathetic last post @72, lets remind the world of the reality of why Argentina today acts completely against what the rest of its neighbors, the Falklands, and the world want... let us go back...
Jun 17th, 2014 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The year is 1999. A new president in Argentina: after 10 years of neo-liberalism, the country is in major recession.
Until this point, Argentina had accepted to completely open its economy to international imports. It ran one of the world's largest trade deficits. Every other country on Earth imported into Argentina, while they REJECTED Argentine exports through barriers and bans. Argentina followed dot and i the IMF model. It payed its debts. It was connected to the world's financial system.
Things get worse and worse. By 2001, half the country is in poverty. Argentina cuts salaries 30% percent to continue honoring its debts. It continues to allow completely open markets and deregulation of work place, which means thousands of companies leave to Brazil, Mexico, Chile, China, Russia, and other countries. They all had DEVALUED their currencies, Argentina was at a massive disadvantage, yet the IMF, EU, and USA insisted Argentina did not adopt protectionist measures against such unfair imbalance. Thousands more lost their jobs.
Argentina had resumed full relations with the UK.
Then the crisis hit, in full. Argentina will full deregulation, open markets, unchecked imports, debt honoring, full relations with UK and others, respecting Mercosur rules (which meant Brazil was stripping Argentina bare of industry given they had devalued)...
Did the world help Argentina then? Move a finger?
No.
And Argentina's economy collapsed. Stabbed in the back completely, when Argentina was behaving in EVERY AREA just like everyone wanted.
So what was the lesson?
Since then, Argentina has abrogated all treaties with Mercosur, cut ties with the UK, reneged on its debts, closed its markets, and stiffened the labor market.
Coincidence?
Hardly.
The world deserves it.
TWIMC
Jun 17th, 2014 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite good speech from President Kirchner…:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_2GbIWdTU
Waiting now for Minister Kicillof’s future strategy speach on a couple of hours…
Personally…, one side of me wished a positive ruling from them Yank Court to end this quagmire…
The other side of me, though, really hoped for a negative ruling from them Yanks to keep Argentineans aware and focused about who and what the real Enemies are…
My best side won…. :-)))
See Toby if you're not careful you are going to end up as bitter and lonely as Think.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe you too can find a man to take you to Scotland and dream of the Argentina you remembered in the good ol' days and not what it is today.
The world says, “thank you, your constant begging was starting to get on our nerves.”
Jun 17th, 2014 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My worst fears have come true. Bob Geldof has join with Bono in writing the charity song for the argentinians... shakes head
Jun 17th, 2014 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#62
Jun 17th, 2014 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Now we will become even more hostile to foreigners”
.
Is that possible and do we care ?
@78
Jun 17th, 2014 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DOn't worry about us. Tell Bono and the other to due a relief red cross CD for London and England, etc, when ISIS takes over half the middle east and launches a massive terror campaign and craters London etc, to avenge Saddam Hussein and your hatred of the SUnnis.
@ 80 There you go again telling us your wet dream. Back to reality…. I wonder what Kicillof will say about the actual crisis in Argentina.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is the stock market doing today?
Somebody mentioned the Stock Market?'
Jun 17th, 2014 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rockflopper Exploitation down 2.23% today to 87.75 pennies....
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=GB00B0FVQX23GBGBXAMSM
A bit clumsy in your panic there, Think. If you had bothered to check instead of desperately trying to divert you would see the markets have risen a little in anticipation of Kicillof and his magic sideburns. The blue dollar is rampant though.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 044 condorito
Jun 17th, 2014 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I agree with that, but there is another item missing: the electorate that continues to elect leaders that do not serve Argentina's interests.”
agree.
so far, they have served their own interests only.
83. The Merval is easily manipulated through Anses. It caught them off guard yesterday that is why there was a huge drop.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The blue Peso is back with a vengeance though.
The banks are complaining they don't have any U$
Everyone knows there's going to be another devaluation, it won't work though, you can't devalue your way to prosperity.
If so there wouldn't be breadlines in Venezuela.
They're going to have an immediate balance of payment deficit. There's no way for them to get U$ into the country. It is a one way street out now.
Brr
:)
I have heard that argentinas football have now got to walk to all their games in Brazil as their team bus has been seized as an asset :D
Jun 17th, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0News update….CFK has called Blatter and Dilma asking them if it is feasible to extend the WC to April 2015
Jun 17th, 2014 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh look at that great friend of Argentina, China, always supporting their inaliable rights and their petty desires in the Atlantic. Just signed yet another trade deal with the UK, just 14 billion this time.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27882954
We want to fulfill and honor our debt, and we will do that” said Cristina Fernandez
Jun 17th, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[see previous blog]
all of a sudden, Argentina will pay,
all of a sudden, talks with Uruguay
poss. stealing of Uruguay's assets perhaps,
just an honest thought..
@82
Jun 17th, 2014 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct Think
Rockhopper down 2.23%
But you failed to quote other oil companies, because it is not to your agenda, but I will help you
Argos no change
Borders UP 2.02%
Falkland oil UP 1.52%
And your point is?
All of a sudden, the world no longer supports or backs Argentina ...lol
Jun 17th, 2014 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All alone , no friends , and stone broke.
giggle..
“”“”“”“”The last 20-30 years have shown that countries (on their own accord) can quickly go from unassailable to desperately crippled financially: I already mentioned the UK in 1974... “”“”“””
Jun 17th, 2014 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0classic use of basic arithmetic there Trollboy....
Durrrrr, so its, like two thousand and fourteeeeeen... take awaaaaayyyyy.... thir-teeeee
Doh!
#80
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Getting slightly hysterical here ! Do you honestly think that the Shi'ites are going to let the Sunnis dominate the Middle East. There is a big country called Iran who don't think so.
Anyway, what makes you think that you may not become involved.
This particular lot want a world wide Caliphate and especially hate Christians.....isn't Argentina full of them ?
What has this got to do with Argentina's debt management ....NOTHING....so I presume this is the classic Argie diversionary ploy as the main subject is TOO embarrassing
12.45 Pesos for a $ !!!
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahahaha another devaluation on the way. Single malt and MacDonalds becoming unaffordable. Think and Toby weep… All other trolls busy watching the footie!
is lurking. We read when I can.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22, 24, 26 Tell her to rub her broomsticks together! Shouldn't have been profiting from the misery of others. No sympathy whatsoever.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@30 But it IS argieland. So, not bothered. Pay up! Incidentally, wonder how much Mr (Wonderful) Singer has actually spent. Or do you think all his lawyers work for nothing? If only he could get argieland to file for bankruptcy!
@37 Fool! As I recall, any assets that were available at the time of the original judgement are liable to forfeiture. The FACT is that argieland cannot operate outside its borders without putting assets where they can be seized.
@40 Going to add outright theft to her crimes, is she? Let's see an international company pack all its stuff and ship it out. And when CFK tries to stop them, let's see the warships turn up. Because it's a very dangerous path.
@42 It doesn't have to be what you call “logic”. The Falkland Islands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands are BRITISH. That's the first point. When and if the circumstances justify, WE can give territory back to people it used to “belong” to. Therefore, territory will NEVER be given to argieland. Second, the population are BRITISH. That supersedes any “logic”. WE do not abandon our people.
@43 Off to fantasy land again!
@48 Dolt! Do you think THE WORLD is going to stand idly by while argieland tries to screw everyone?
@54 You haven't yet seen “damage”. Get out in the fields with the other divots. Why do you think Mr oh so clever Kicillof had to get an agreement that argieland would PAY?
@62 A bit of advice, dimwit. Remember what happened after 1914/18? Germany was essentially intact. Debts to pay through its actions, but still intact. Then there was some lunatic moron just like you. So, between 1939/45, Germany was destroyed. That's your potential future. Enjoy!
82 Think
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That was even laughable by your standards Think. Is that the best you can manage? Yep, those Rockflopper shares are down again and thanks to them nobody has even noticed that Argentina is once again fucked.
Don't forget to give Yankeeboy credit for being right once again.I guess at times like this you consider yourself lucky you don't live in Argentina.
Get the Commander out of that RBL. He'll sort things out.
Chuckle chuckle
YESSSSSSSSS
Jun 17th, 2014 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice move..., Mr. Kicillof & Co.
Let the fight against the bloodsuckers continue...
Yet another day where I'm proud of being (a first generation:-) Argentinean...
Is that why CFK says she wants the Falklands? To give to Singer?
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 098 Think
Oh yes, it's all going to plan is it? Bahahahahahahahahaha! I had a good chuckle reading all of the comments on Clarin last night. Not too many people are happy with their president. The Model, they all said. What model they all asked.
I insist on hearing from the Commander Think. Give him a ring and get him on here.
Chuckle chuckle
at 31
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you are wrong. the argies have been paying my grandmother regularly.if singer it is way those payments will stop and go to him. The poor paying the rich.
These wall st bankers are the same people that brought us the great
recession. They are crooks and parasites.
(99) Joe Bloggs
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We ain't giving nothing to that Singer fella, Joe...
Not even some windblown Rrrrocks in the South Atlantic...
Haven't you heard that we just defaulted? (Technically, that is:-)))
PS:
I miss the Commander too... And Nelson... And Nigger ;-)))
By we do you mean Argentina? Have they defaulted? How...well...Argentina.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I miss the complex web of lies you made up about him to try to add credibility to his persona. You learnt your lesson with that one didn't you. That's why we get very little about the private life of a_Voice.
imbecile 96
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and do you think that mr wonderful singer or the others like him give a shit if the country affected is argentina or any other?
surely an imbecile like you, thinks that george soros, (the thief who won 1.1 billion dollars in a few days at the expense of the bank of england) is a wonderful guy too.
and considering the public debt spiral of the uk, it seems you will have the pleasure of watching these wonderful guys in action again
I dont understand why doesn't the opposition call for the Gov’t demission now ??
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The opposition is just delivering themselves cap in hand to the gov’t instead of really going fo the heart of th beast.
The seem te be happy that the debt bomb explodes on them in 2016 and not on the Ks
BTW the rumors about gov’t officials buying bonds in advance of scotus negative decision has been confirmed by Nelson Castro
Joe, Joe, Joe....
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's a mild “Insular Paranoia” case you are showing here....
....Speaking about Mr. A_Voice, who doesn't make a secret of his Scottish Residential Status....
Anybody read the last polls about Scottish Independence?
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM !
“Think”: ”Yet another day where I'm proud of being (a first generation:-) Argentinean...”
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I have said before, now confirmed by himself: Shrink is an implanted squatter in the Americas.
The fact that Standard & Poors has lowered Argentina's debt rating overseas from CCC+ to CCC- should make him happy. When you have hit the bottom, you can only stay there or move upwards until the next bankrupcy.
How does a government let its country default and then not throw in the towel? It's not something you should be striving for you deadbeats. How long ago was it that CFK was telling us that everything was going great and the economy was growing and they had loads of reserves?
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahahahahaha.
Oh yes Think. The Scottish referendum. PMSL. Forget the Scottish referendum, its them islands that we've stolen from you that you should focus on. Something pointless to get your teeth into.
Did you like when TMBOA tried to blame the Falklands for her economic woes? Fucking brilliant that was.
105
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You Kicillof & CFK LTA .........................................check ✔
107 Joe B
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“... and they had loads of reserves”
no no, that's “preserves”, as in home made jars of beet root and turnips, for when the stores are bare in the long winter.
Please don't encourage ThinkVoice - he's just a shit.
As my boy, Kicillof just said......
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“No Pasarán”
The Argentine government plans to reopen the debt swap after US Supreme Court setback, under Argentine legislation.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone who accepts a bond under Argentine legislation is seriously mentally ill and in need of a legal guardian to protect their interests.
As my boy, Kicillof just said......
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“No Pasarán”......
As they sad in Madrid, but Madrid did fall
cosmetic surgery dont come cheap
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0............................................................. just to raise again.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://img.desmotivaciones.es/201105/nopasaran.jpg
Think
Jun 17th, 2014 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You were right the other day about publicity. Remember? When you were talking about the football banner? Well TMBOA of Argentina is no fool is she? Imagine how much attention this is going to get her. All she has to do is wait until the whole world is watching (and laughing) and then tell them about the Falklands.
Chuckle chuckle
I hate to break it to the Rgidiots here but Griesa doesn't negotiate deals. It must be negotiated bewteen the parties themselves.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Opening up a new restructuring under Arg law would still be in contempt of court.
AxelK is a few points above a retard.
They're all so stupid it is simply flabbergasting.
NML has the upper hand, they will be paid or Arg will default.
Wait and see
I've not been wrong yet have I?
For: 126 ilsen, 127 ANGLOTONTO, et al,
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ANGLOTONTO: I’m not QUITE pig ignorant (I leave that to you) about the Chinese –I lived amongst them for long enough.
ILSEN: Re: “I don't believe the PRC will 'foreclose' at anytime in the near future simply because the rest of the 'western' would cease trading” et cetra
Wrong! China won’t foreclose because –like a Bank that’s loaned far too much money to a number of clients who can’t afford to repay –it has NO OPTION but to keep lending every more money to its debtors, in the HOPE that things will sooner or later improve and that they will EVENTUALLY be able to reimburse the debt. However, if that hope is not realized, there will be another 1929 Wall Street type crash but this time, it will be of an infinitely greater magnitude. And as in 1929, the only way conventional capitalism can use to rebuild the global economy, is to provoke another World War as it did in 1939. In fact, in my view we already see the present day “signal” precursors to WWIII, in the armed uprisings presently afflicting the Arab/Muslim World (including India/Pakistan) et cetera. Remember events in Japan/China, Italy/Abyssinia, Spain, Germany, et cetera, prior to WWII.
Another, possible disaster that could put the kybosh on the present fragile world order is a civil war amongst the Chinese. Most people view China as a highly cohesive stable country. Is is certainly not. Rather, it a huge continent inhabited by peoples of widely diverse cultures, who speak more than 800 different major languages and dialects. This human menagerie is kept in its cage by the Beijing’s all-powerful Communist Party. But the workers are becoming ever more restless over the lack of basic human rights and increasing, capitalist-style, widening of the gap between the rich elite and the still painfully poor masses.
Watch this space!
Jim, in Madrid.
I liked that one, negotiating with a judge on his ruling.
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Priceless.
I do not suppose they have ever heard of contempt of court.
My opinion is that they are confusing it with their system of contempt for court!
118. It is very clear they have not listened to their attorneys and don't understand English. AxelK said he studied the case and came up with those idiotic solutions!
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gads these people are so over their head it is frightening.
No wonder so many of the Rgidiots on this board never know what they are talking about.
@ 116 yankeeboy
Jun 17th, 2014 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I apologize in advance, but I respectfully dissent with your rating of AxelK.
I have just read news of his press conference.
AxelK is a few points BELOW a retard.
His official declaration:
“ESTAMOS INICIANDO LOS PASOS PARA UN CAMBIO DE DEUDA”
is a declaration of war on US judiciary, a flagrant violaton of Griesa’s ANTI-EVASION order.
Now in US courts the Argentine Republic is formally a perjurer.
100% pure INSANITY, pointless insanity for a minister who has also declared:
“ENVIAREMOS NUESTROS AVOGADOS PARA HABLAR CON EL JUEZ GRIESA”
So what actually happens if they do throw the towel in and default again?
Jun 18th, 2014 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Start all over again
Does Snakey Singer have to wait another 10 years to get back to this stage again? ( The old prick will be dead by then).
Our credit rating is already shit, so who cares?
120 TTT?
Jun 18th, 2014 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bravo Cristina and Argentina - stand firm and you will prevail again
Jun 18th, 2014 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0The usual ill informed expat muppets here are getting it all wrong as usual - our business is growing and the industry is booming.
Tonight we are celebrating a birthday of a dear friend in our villa overlooking the spectacular Jardim botanic and beyond in Rio de Janeiro with some Caipirinhas and champagne......Lionel and Antonella have joined us for the evening and we had a laugh about this silly fund nonsense. A storm in a gringo teacup
Life is good in Latin America
121. Its not a default that is the problem its the inability to get u$ to pay for imports.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0BCRA is broke, like it has never been before.
Do they seriously think the USA would allow the PC deal to move forward or any Int'l Bank loans to be disbursed when they are in contempt of court in the USA?
YPF is also out of cash, they can't even get their bonds subscribed LOCALLY!
I hope hope hope they take AxelK's advice
It will be fun to watch
really fun
I think Argentina should sell the Argentine province of Tierra Del Fuego as a way raising revenue and paying their debts. A bit of land not doing much. Rename Tierra Del Fuego to Singerland and Ushuaia to Singerville.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@123 El Diego (#)
Jun 18th, 2014 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your so right, life is good in latin america, until the next heat wave, power break downs, water shut offs, it's that good in fact we are still waiting for the Government to release the gifts for our baby which are being held at the post office, sent by unsuspecting kind hearted people who had no idea how far the Government will stoop to stop people purchasing outside the country.
Like you I enjoy Latin life with my Latin family, and like you I enjoy even more away from the mad house. Enjoy Brasil, and think we could be like this in 2-3 hundred years
Arse hole.
@75 Think
Jun 18th, 2014 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0> The other side of me, though, really hoped for a negative ruling from them Yanks to keep Argentineans aware and focused about who and what the real Enemies are…
Let me guess. It's 3000 islanders 300 miles away?
“ However, Anna Gelpern, an expert in sovereign finance at the US-based Georgetown Law School said: ”This realistically is the end of the road for Argentina's decade-long fight.” - Deutsche Welle.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 05:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Decade-long stalling, more likely.
Now they have to pay back the loans they took, spent and defaulted on. How is Argentina going to pay the hefty fine from FIFA for dragging it's footballers to stand behind a political banner with the government crest clearly showing!!
Jun 18th, 2014 - 05:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think they will. They have enough trouble in Argentina as it is.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 06:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0For now though I'm enjoying the Argentine team at the World Cup. They played very well so far.
Which I will digress and take the opportunity to mention that I am still in Fortaleza, and attended the game yesterday. Essentially the stadium is new, with full attendance for an excellent game.
As much as I support our team, the lads from Mexico played a very energetic game. I suspect most of the crowd is still at it in the bars along Praia Futuro, even now.
Returning to Porto Das Dunas, Aquiraz, after the game, which takes normally around 20 minutes, in post-game traffic took us 2+ hours !
Italian bondholders’ legal representative, Tullio Zembo, harshly criticized the US Court ruling against Argentina that favoured vulture funds, saying “it was injurious and unfair.”
Jun 18th, 2014 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Them losing 75% of the value of their investments, that's what Is injurious and unfair.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0@131 You really need to understand the whole story rather than picking out parts that do not give the entire picture.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I will try to simplify it for you…...
People from countries other than Argentina invested in bonds in Argentina. A lot of that money was their pension funds to pay for their old age. Argentina defaulted and the grannies and grandpas in other countries lost their investment. Directly as a result of the Argentine governments mismanagement. Argentina bad.
Eventually an agreement was reached with some investors from other countries to pay them a small percentage of their investment. (Imagine your Grandma now being paid 25% of the amount she usually receives) With me so far?
Some investors refused to accept such a small percentage. So the Argentine government has paid them nothing. Nada. This is the problem. By doing that the Argentine government has broken contract law.
The Italian bondholders that settled for 25% are worried that they will now get nothing at all. Because the law says the Argentine government must pay everyone equally. They suspect the 'equally' will be nothing at all.
This has nothing to do with your Grandma's pension paid by the Argentine government. If they don't pay her - living safely in England - that is because they have no money. Don't worry, she will not starve in England. She might if she goes back to Argentina now they have run out of money.
at 133
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0exactly and who has engineer this question? The corrupt wall street robber baron Singer. One of the very same that brought us the great recession the last robbery of main Street by Wall St.
How come that non of these crooks are in goal? It should be singer that should be paying my grandmother not my grandmother paying him.
@117 JimHandley
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stop chasing me around the fora and pasting the same comment. Reply to a comment on the thread where the comment was..... it isn't this one. Pathetic!
@123 El Diego
Such a glamorous life and yet your night finishes with you posting on here? Pathetic!
@134 Hepatia
You forgot to change your login name to BRITISH BOMBER.
@134 You are trying to encompass too many issues. I think there are possibly two or three people posting here that positively support the idea of 'vulture' funds. I don't but that is a another matter.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is your grandmother paying Singer? How is that possible?
British Bomber did not understand the situation so I tried to explain it. You are just confusing the issue by trying to make one man a villain against Argentina. You are not at all addressing the reason Argentina defaulted in the first place creating the environment for a 'vulture' company to move in. They are ultimately responsible*.
The feckless spending and blatant stealing by successive Argentine governments is far more responsible for the dire financial situation in Argentina. Don't let your government dodge responsibility by creating a fictitious villain that is to blame.
*If you have followed any of my posts on the subject I have explained in full my opinion on the Argentine default and where blame should be placed. Not entirely with Argentina but their failure to take ANY responsibility has them facing the same problem again.
CFK is wailing about NML making 1600% on their investment in a decade. Tell me again how much her fortune has grown while she and the one eyed wonder has been in office?
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0At least Singer has earned his return legally.
I wonder when they start seizing Aerolineas jets? OR YPF Stock? Or Satellite slots? OR BCRA Accounts? Or SOY tankers? Or Oil Tankers?
So much to think about
This is so fun to watch roll out!!
For: 135 ANGLOTONTO.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “@117 JimHandley
Stop chasing me around the fora and pasting the same comment. Reply to a comment on the thread where the comment was..... it isn't this one. Pathetic!”
Your own last comment on the CORRECT FORUM caused the moderator to close it –presumably, he’d had enough of your childish, gratuitous personal insults, too. So I posted my reply HERE, in order not to let you get away with the ill-informed nonsense you wrote about the Chinese in general and the PRC’s government in particular.
Jim, in Madrid.
@69 I doubt anybody actually “reads” your posts. You are on the level of what I believe the Americans call “the funnies”. Comics.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0@71 Oh no. There's lots more yet. And you generate even more every time you “comment”. Keep it up!
@74 Unfortunately, your exposition is a lie from start to finish. In reality, government spending continued to be way too high and corruption was rampant. Faced by economic crises in various latam countries, the argie government managed to do the wrong thing at every turn. Remember the 13% pay cut for all civil servants and the equivalent reduction in pension payments? Tax revenues falling. But it wouldn't have occurred to tax the rich more, would it? Can't have the corrupt rich paying for their corruption. I do love the “stabbed in the back” excuse. Same one Hitler used. And Duhalde tried “pesification”, didn't he? Taking away peoples' money and giving them worthless pesos in exchange. At the rate of 1.4 pesos to the dollar. Happy days. Now 8.13 pesos for a dollar. Must be something to do with the incompetence and thievery of the Kirchners and their cronies, eh?
@80 There you go again. Thinking we “worry” about you. We are just concerned about the tinnitus you cause.
@100 But isn't CFK saying she'll pay everybody? Anyway, grandma has been coining it while others got nothing. Maybe it's time for grandma to pay?
@103 Brainless pillock wherever you turn up. I'm sure that Mr (Wonderful) Singer is just loving stuffing argieland. Wonder what might have happened if argieland had been honest? No doubt all the charities that Mr Singer supports will be looking forward to donations.
@110 Then we'll just do dumps on him! Just remember that you have to PAY! And don't forget the british bummer's grandma. Pay her everything you owe her. Eventually. Cut her payments by two-thirds. For about 10 years.
@121 War!!
@123 So! One of the corrupt crawls out of the woodwork. Living it up while others suffer. Hope they come by and trash your shack!
@138 JimHandley
Jun 18th, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Your own last comment on the CORRECT FORUM caused the moderator to close it”
Wow thanks for the compliment. Little ol' me caused an actual moderator to appear and close a thread? The power I wield I indeed immense.
If people didn't know you were pig-ignorant before, after reading that you believe a moderator would care enough on this site to close a forum, they bloody well do now.
All threads close. If you don't get the last word in then suck it up and move on.
“presumably, he’d had enough of your childish, gratuitous personal insults, too.”
I stand by my opinion of you. If you want to say pig-ignorant things then expect to be called out. You were pig-ignorant. I call you out. You went all road rage.
As for childish, if changing my name isn't childish then I don't know what is.
134 Hepatia
Jun 18th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“How come that non of these crooks are in goal? It should be singer that should be paying my grandmother not my grandmother paying him.”
Oopsy, Hepatia!!
You were writing as “British Bomber”, remember not as Hepatia
Silly Troll
#141
Jun 18th, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0exactly and who has engineer this question?
Do you notice the Hispanic slant to “her”posts, eg engineer instead of engineered. More than a typo.
I didn't think Hepatia/British Bomber was trying to hide the fact that they are hispanic. Their Grandmother is drawing a pension from the Argentine government so I assumed…….. Anyway, fortunately the grandparent is in England where she will not starve when things get really bad in Argentina. I
Jun 18th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@143 Elaine B
Jun 18th, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A bit hypocritical of BB / Hepatia don't you think.
Argentina reneges on debts, publicly criticises UK, launches propaganda against the UK, including these barrages from “Hepatia”, Argentina vows to default rather than abide by the Court Jurisdiction they agreed to, Argentina nationalises pensions, and now blames us for not threatening to cut off their pensioners - all whilst Hepatia's “Grandma ” and others like her, access UK social services and health care for free.
Have they no dignity??
@144 Why, yes, it is. I don't think it really computes when you have been inculcated from birth that 'nicking a quid off someone' equates to a good day. (Before the war-crys start, not all Argentines) But if you have lived in BsAs for any length of time you get used to the unashamed ripping off of even your best friends as standard practice there. I honestly think they imported it from Italy when the majority of Italian settled in BsAs. The thing is, if they are all avoiding paying for everything and scamming their customers/friends, it isn't really shocking for them because they are all playing by the same rules. Like one of my best friends there said: everyone does it, I do it. Just as she said that all politicians lie which is why there is no real scandal every time they are caught in a lie.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think it has anything to do with dignity but rather a cultural difference. As in ' If I get something for nothing, good for me'.
@131 british bomber
Jun 18th, 2014 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Zembo? Mr. Tullio Zembo ????? the self-appointed LEGAL representative ?? LEGAL ???? LOL the wheeler-dealer? the story teller? LOL LOL !!! may be he is a sale representative of magical snake oil ! LOL
(Sadly) I am an Italian (HO) bondholder: for sure Mr. Zembo DIDN'T and DOESN'T represent me or any other Italian HO bondholder.
In an Argie article I read two days ago, reportedly Mr. Zembo represents Italian EXCHANGE bondholders.
But no formal association or group of Italian exchange bondholders exists or existed.
As far as I know (and I know something on this topic ;-)) nobody in the community of past or current Tangobond investors here in Italy appointed Mr. Zembo his/her counsel/representative.
Shortly ... 100% Argie bullshit (as usual).
Elaine
Jun 18th, 2014 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Somewhere or other H. said she was American quoting US history taught in grade school...whatever that is !
I have just been looking at her syntax in her postings and there is a definite “Hispanic” turn in her speech that no educated American would use.
I am reminded of the “Sharks” in West Side Story !
@133
Jun 18th, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That explanation was as clear as 'Janet and John' - even my cat understood that.
Your patience is outstanding : )
The Sharks in West Side Story!
Jun 18th, 2014 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's it. Thats it. That's it.
I knew I had seen Kissitoff somewhere before.
A LESSON OF DIGNITY FOR THE SONS OF A BITCH.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This time, i won't analize the misserable comments of some cretins who have always said that they want to see argentina on the broke again, and i won't refer either to the usuall too partial lectures that some ignorants here often do, who often present their selves as journalists or experts, and who defend the vultures's posture. Objetive facts, will always be much more important than the partial analysis of those cretins.
The point is that the government has a full compromise with the 92% of holders who trusted argentina, in fact, only a misserable can say that argentina didn't have enough will to pay it's debts, if it made two debts restructurings, where the 92% of the defaulted debt could be restructurated, and after having recieved the support of different countries, and personalities like ann krueger, british parliamentaries etc etc.
It's not necesary to be a genious to realise that after this rulling by u. s. a.'s supreme court, it's hightly probable that none country will dare to carry on a debt restructuring, due to griesa isn't the only one corporate judge in the world. That rulling is a very dangerous presedent, and if the government cedes before the pretention of those sons of a bitch, our two debts restructurings will be in danger.
Beyond the wishes of those who want to see us eating from the garbage, including our sepoys, who must be celebrating this news, as they often do with anything that prejudices the nation, i have always known that the government was going to take all the necesary measures, in order to keep on honouring our debts, but protecting all the achievements that we could get in these years.
@150 If you devote your first paragraph to trying to insult anyone but yourself, you rather undermine your own point.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I absolutely don't agree with the scaremonger about future debt restructuring. The law is organic in nature. This latest ruling will make future contracts worded differently. That's all.
The majority of people posting here do not want to see the average Argentine suffer at all. That is why we attack the corrupt and inept government who are solely responsible if you do end up eating out of the garbage. No one else but CFK and her band of thieves. Don't play the victim, get a decent government.
This magic figure of 92% that they keep quoting.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I take it they realise that they are paying back a mere quarter of the money that was invested?
Is it me or do I get a distinct feeling that some on here actually think that these 92% are doing well out of this?
Incredibly he uses the phrase, trust Argentina. Lost for words, they lose three quarters of their investment and he uses the words, they trust Argentina!!!!!!!!!!!
I seriously doubt that is how the 92% feel.
I also wonder what the conditions of the settlement was?
Take it or leave, sounds about right to me.
@152 They are parroting the words of the government that has tried to create the illusion that 92% are perfectly happy and love Argentina. They are NOT. They were is a desperate situation, on their knees and accepted the morsels offered by Argentina.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The 92% were robbed of the majority of their money. And a lot of the bond holders that settled were strong-armed into it. You know how Argentina does business.
The 92% are worried because they believe Argentina will use the excuse of the ruling to not pay them.
(146) Caro Gianluca
Jun 18th, 2014 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My personal advice would be to get into the next restructuration if you want to make some money out of your investment....
Servus
153 ElaineB
Jun 18th, 2014 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This also begs the question, “ have the 93% been paid?”
In other words, if not, it really doesn't alter anything at all - Argentina is probably no more or no less likely to pay the 93%, in spite of their vow to make good on their 25% value “re-structured” debt.
I would be surprised if anybody gets anything - Restructures or Holdouts, alike.
This current government will just kick it down the road until it becomes the burden of the next government.
CFK et al, will be long gone by the time the new administration throws their hands up in despair claiming quite rightly, they were handed an economy in ruins.
How much do you think the Libertad or the old AR air fleet will fetch??
@ 123 El Diego (generally known as the Dolt) blabbers foolishly: “our business is growing and the industry is booming.”
Jun 18th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine industrial production drops 3.4% in April 2014
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/161737/industrial-production-drops-34-in-april
Venta de autos: bajó 41% y fue el peor mayo en 4 años - Car sales down 41 percent, at a 4 year lowpoint for May
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/161737/industrial-production-drops-34-in-april
Things are really going the Dolt's way.
Rock-Argentina-Hard Place
Jun 18th, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said early today, I was sure the stay would be released. And it was
They must negotiate or default by the next due date.
They have no time to organize payments under Arg law
They would also have to use a Bank with no, AND I MEAN NO, connections to the USA or one of our friends.
I don't think that exists.
I don't think Banco Frances is going to put their USA business in jeopardy for CFK. You can change Banco Frances for any Rg bank.
This is so much fun to watch
These idiots look like some hit them in the head with a 2x4
Not that it could make them dumber
It just their eyes are a little wobbly and out of sort
Yankeeboy. ElaineB
Jun 18th, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the morning news today in Canada:
Argentina loses in court and has immediately started to try and re- issue bonds themselves “ to find a way not to comply the American ruling”.
Argentina has requested a meeting with the judge to discuss terms or alternatives.
They want to reach a “compromise” with the
bond holders.
What??
Do they think it is still open to negotiation in the US courts after a ruling??
Compromise??
So, after Singer fought them successfully, to get a ruling for full payment and the means to seize Aargh assets in lieu of, they now want him to agree to accept less money or worthless bonds or promises, instead??
It beggars belief !!!
I haven't seen anything on this story in the UK news, may have missed it though.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For: 140 Anglotino.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re:
“I stand by my opinion of you. If you want to say pig-ignorant things then expect to be called out. You were pig-ignorant. I call you out. You went all road rage.”
I really don’t care what you think of me personally but it’s a shame that you’re weird demeanour on these pages indicates you obviously suffer from an aggressive form of the Tony Blair Syndrome –a delusional disorder, grandiose subtype (DOG)
Seriously, you really ought to seek professional help! Or are you not taking your medication as prescribed?
Jim.
Not so childish using my proper now name Jim.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lesson learnt.
Griesa doesn't trust CFK. Surprise Surprise. You'd think she'd learn to keep her big mouth shut.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me tell you what happens when a judge doesn't trust one of the sides and believes they WILL act in bad faith.
He will make the agreement so tight they can't squirm and in the end they'll end up paying more than they would and quicker than they'd have to.
The people are blockheads
I hope there are enough lamp posts when the peasants rise up.
@158 yes you heard right. A compromise is necessary because we can't pay the holdouts inmediately, if we do then we might get sued by the people who accepted the restructuring and they would demand 15 billion dollars, which we don't have.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the holdouts are only allowed to seize 1.3 billion dollars in assets, then problem solved, they should go after CFK's loot, if she really has 10 billion euros hidden in offshore accounts then it's more than enough for the holdouts AND the Paris Club, they can look there and stop bothering the people who are already fed up of the government.
163. I doubt very much that they can negotiate an agreement and then wait until December to sign it.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds scummy and scammy and doesn't pass the smell test.
That's why I am so happy they lifted the stay now and not later
Doesn't give Arg any room to squirm out of paying everyone equally AS THEY SHOULD
One possible option:
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK and Elvis flying to Moscow to see if Argentina can be annexed.
163 Magnus M
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree it is grossly unfair that regular Argentines are going to suffer as a result of the doings of the governor elite of Argentina - what do they care.
However, the money is owed by the state of Argentina. Let your new government chase down the criminal culprits.
I guess the regular Argentines could round up the K's and hold their feet to the fire until they give back the money they stole, pay the debts, the markets open up to Argentina and the future looks bright.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just sayin'
How much did they waste on that propaganda show they call a museum? Probably millions.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lots of lamp posts in the Plaza de Mayo or what have you...
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0116. The Rg deserve to suffer their fate. They elected one set of criminals after another for a CENTURY!!
Jun 19th, 2014 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe after a few decades of having no heat or food they'll learn.
Let them eat cake.
I don't want to see them suffer. That may be what it takes to learn.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0I' d like to think that the real culprits are held to account before they can flee the jurisdiction.
If subsequent governments realise there are repercussions, perhaps they'll govern accordingly... hopefully.
171. Doubtful, Based on their History they're going to elect someone just as bad as the last, and the one before that and the one before than and so and and so on.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Until they are looking up to Bolivia wondering what went wrong.
@150 Axel @134 Hepatia
Jun 19th, 2014 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no need for Argentine to imperil its existing debt restructuring.
Fortunately, the World Bank and the IMF have put together a programme specifically aimed at Highly Indebted Poor Countries who are unable to pay their debts. Quite a few of the peer group of vulture victims cited by the Peronists are in the programme already, such as e.g Liberia and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, as well as Latam friends like Bolivia and Nicaragua.
Surely this is a means for Argentina to respect the judgement if the court, as well as its shining commitment to the 92% it has scammed once already? And not only that, but a recourse to the programme could also save from starvation or British charity Hepatia's sock puppet's grandmother, while waiting for the Falklands to be transferred to Argentina in the next 25 years.
What's not to like? Shouldn't CFK be giving Morales a call?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavily_indebted_poor_countries
172 Yankeeboy
Jun 19th, 2014 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree, they would have to learn from their mistakes before another entitled opportunist jumped into the saddle.
@166 I would like to see the new gov't get the money back but it won't happen. First because the money is in Seychelles or some other place such that it is virtually impossible to get anything out of unless the world powers who own those havens does a favor to us. Second, because the new government will most likely be a Peronist one, because they still control all the people who can shut down our country and because the other political forces are still either too weak or too afraid to challenge the Peronists, so they will shut down any investigation because they were involved as well.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 02:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0@170 do you realise what they are saying? The people did the best they could. The people can't know what ANY politician will do until he's in power and by then it's too late, because he can use the government to do whatever he wants. Not that it matters because every single politician is a criminal, because those who aren't criminals will get eaten alive by the others. We aren't perfect, but we did everything we could, military dictatorships, democracy, we were on the brink of civil war in the 70s, then after a State Terrorist regime voting both Peronists and Radicals and even from other political forces who are powerless on a national scale but have representation in the government. The vast mayority of the people didn't vote criminals because we are mean, they voted what they thought was the best option out of all the candidates, and some people couldn't choose who to vote for. The only reason Peronists get elected is that the people believe that they are the only ones who are able keep the country away from chaos, since previous Radical governments ended badly. Whatever will happen to CFK won't change this since the Peronists still have the power to shut down the whole country through trade unions or lootings.
If you really think the regular person, who most likely was totally unaware of what was going on, who is only trying to survive, deserves to starve, you are a monster.
175. That is a pathetic response to your continued crisis over the last century. The people did as best as they could, what do you expect, whaa whaa whaa.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0If that's what you think you absolutely deserve to starve.
Get some balls and make the politicians behave. Make them have consequences.
You have to fight for a competent gov't or you'll continue to get bad one.
Don't be a pathetic loser
Grow up and take responsibility and stop being so weak willed and pathetic.
It is this exact attitude that is making you poorer and stupider with every generation.
And how do you think we should make the politicians behave? We fight as much as we can, but there is a line to be drawn or else we have civil war or terrorism and we would be no better than criminals. War is as inhuman as poverty, in most cases even worse.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you think we deserve to starve because we don't shoot around people like Al Qaeda then YOU are the monster who deserves to starve. Humans should be looking to stop brutality, not provoke it. But people like you are still worse savages than a chimpansee.
177. Sorry but your explanation is weak and ill informed. I am beginning to think you are a fool and not worth my time to post.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you truly believe what you post, you deserve everything you have coming to you.
@177 a fool for not being a murderer? How in any way is my explanation weak? War is to be avoided, if you knew any of the horrors of war you would know it. Too bad the commando thieves didn't assault you, then you would know how war is like.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Roll over and show your belly maybe the gov't will give you a treat for being such a good boy.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Loser
177 Magnus
Jun 19th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, but if you are starving because people continually steal from you, I can't think of a better reason for revolution or a civil war to stop it from happening.
You can't sit on your hands - it will just continue.
Nobody else can do anything about this - it's up to you.
Unless your neighbours wait until you are weaker still, and invade because you demonstrate a willingness to be dominated.
You are unfortunately, truly between a rock and a hard place.
@181 Sorry, but I don't see how civil war or revolution is acceptable at this point. When our government is killing us like al-Assad is doing in Syria, or when the Peronists screw up so much that they can't pay the looters for a long time, maybe. But if ultimately you start a war to defend yourself, what's the point of it?
Jun 19th, 2014 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You would be not better than the people who oppressed you. I envy psychopaths, who don't need to care about anyone but themselves...
182 MM
Jun 19th, 2014 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Best Wishes to you.
It is up to you, and nobody else.
Look at Venezuela - too little TOO LATE, yet they have hope and continue to struggle.
(182) MagnusMaster
Jun 19th, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are not such a big Turnip after all...
184 Think
Jun 19th, 2014 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sure, listen to Think - perpetuate the status quo.
George Orwell's vision of the future in “1984” applies so appropriately to the Argentina of 2014,
“If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. ”
That's what “Think” wishes for Argentina.
ELAINE B.
Jun 20th, 2014 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry elaine, but unfortunately, it's evident that you can't stop being as mediocre as many other people here. If you don't agree on c. f.k's ideology, it's as respectable as the posture i have in relation to what i think about her government, however, it doesn't mean that you have to make such partial lectures. You often say that you have travelled around south america, including in argentina, however most you say in your comments isn't less ignorant than what most people in this website usually say. C.f. k's government isn't neather revolutionary nor perfect, in fact, it committed many mistakes, but it also made a lot for workers, anyway if you don't agree on kirchnerism's ideas, you don't have to be so misserable, and blame only on the government, victimizing economic power, and making such partial analysis about the complicated problem that we have with our debt. If you are a professional, show a better level of debate.
186
Jun 20th, 2014 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you always say the same things over and over in your comments that all look alike??
#159 rc
Jun 21st, 2014 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0And there is the great irony of these forums.
No one unfortunately really gives a monkeys about Latam opinions in the west as it's too volatile to deal with or too schizophrenic to talk to (normally through its own violation).
So in fact the Latam trolls who think they are trolling us in regards to various issues such as the one above or the falklands etc are in fact being trolled by us.
I agree whole heartedly with Ekko's post @188
Jun 21st, 2014 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0as a tax payer I want to see what we are paying for? that money can buy a lot of buildings and machinery, I don't mind paying for something that I can see, but while everyone talks about billions of dollars no one has ever seen or heard witch bank accounts this money went to, so please remember that without factual or tangible evidence everything said here is BS, the ruling is just a formality, if not Argentina should immediately close all embassies in USA and put all buildings for sale as well as dumping the dollar for yens to secure a flow of trade and commerce.
Jun 22nd, 2014 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@190
Jun 22nd, 2014 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As a taxpayer, those are precisely the questions you should be asking, but it's your own politicians you should be asking them to, not the US courts.
@190.
Jun 22nd, 2014 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sad isn't it, to think what your politicians and their friends in industry robbed you of?
@190
Jun 22nd, 2014 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As has been explained so well by yankeeboy, Welsh Wizard and others previously the petulant idea of cutting off contact between Argentina and the USA wouldn't mean escaping the creditors.
Global banking is a bit more complex than that.
It would also be an act of gross stupidity, not that has been much of an obstacle for the Kirchner crew in the past.
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