MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina claims Judge Griesa “blocked the payment to bondholders”
Through an official press release published on Friday afternoon, the Argentine government stated US Federal Judge, Thomas Griesa, attempted to “block the payment for bondholders,” and committed an abuse of authority, after cancelling the deposit made on Thursday into a Bank of New York account. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWe “Claim” nothing....
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0He HAS blocked the payment to bondholders...
Indeed.......... a genial move from mt boy Kicillof...
Argentina you can try a propaganda war all you like..... it isn't going to change anything
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pay up. It really is that simple.
So Kickitoff doesn't understand the judgement then.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0A few of us have been saying this seems to be the case, otherwise they are lying!
Now which is it do you think, Lunatic?
Two-faced or bare-faced, your pick.
Abused his Judicial authority? How? Has this AxelK retard even read the judgement?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder if he travels on a diplomatic passport? I bet he doesn't qualify.
It would be funny if he ended up in jail.
This kinda makes me think of the Special Olympics participants thinking they're qualified to play in the Olympics.
Sorry was that in bad taste?
Snicker
He has warned the bank that they will be in contempt of court if they do not pass these funds on to ALL the bond holders! and unlike you Kicillof, the Bank seems to recognise that fact.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tell me, just exactly did you think he was likely to do? Ignore his own ruling!
Pathetic attempt to ratchet up further sympathy.
By the way, the list in my corner shop is growing longer, pop it in the post on Monday.
@1 Kissitoff eager to appear in the dock for contempt of court, is he? It was the order of the court that the holdouts had to be paid at the same time. Kissitoff thought he could pull a fast one and, if it went wrong, blame it on the court. Trouble is that Kissitoff has known the terms of the court order since 2012. Worth remembering that a U.S. court imprisoned someone “in contempt of court” indefinitely. It turned out to be 14 years (Chadwick v. Janecka (3d Cir. 2002)). “Contempt” is a prerogative of the court. Kissitoff could have a sentence imposed without his presence. Say, 10 years. And be unable to ever visit the U.S. for any reason. Arrives on diplomatic passport? Declared “persona non grata”. Bye bye.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still trying to 'cheat' Argentina?? Default in 32 days time :-)
Jun 28th, 2014 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These simpletons should learn what law is what authority a judge has before they make ridiculous claims on stage to the idiots that will believe them.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps someone should sit them down and explain to them exactly what a court order is, because they do not have a ferkin clue what one is!
Jun 28th, 2014 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My guess is Singer has some nice, juicy, embarrassing Arg assets lined up to seize in August.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing worse than someone else embarrassing Rgs on the world stage. They don't when other people take the jobs they are good at since there's not many of them.
I know that the Ks are utter scum but there is clearly a cultural clash in the way fundamental law concepts are understood between Argentina and the rest of the developed western countries.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The peronist and peronist doctrine which is engulfed in the mindset of most Argentines (even if they ar not peronist themselves) believe ultimately in the rights of the State are paramount over the individual and property.
In the West and particularly in the Anglo saxon sphere it is opposite.
Most of this conflict is cultural.
Yeah that's why they're trying to blame all of this on the White House and saying their going bring someone to The Hague.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not quite sure who they think they'd try and sue?
I'd be curious and grateful if anyone can give me the Rglogic on that one!
Someone might want to tell them the USA doesn't recognize international tribunals.
I think they will try to take to court at least some american wwho is involved in some way or another in some international court. It will be about portraying Argentina and the Ks are “punching back” and the mob keeps its patriotic and warlike rhetoric and this in itself prevents thee gov't from acknowledging any defeat
Jun 28th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at howw the government are portraying they are fighting a international diplomatic war for years and years over the Malvinas/ Falklands out of no legal, no substantial achievements no real implications at all. Its all just smoke to say Im still fighting and we haven't losed yet.
Yeah but there's not one international court that has jurisdiction over an American citizen and this is a private contract matter.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They're really silly people
I would love to know what Singer has his eye on for August.
I wouldn't know if there is a single american citizen they can accuse to in a whatever court.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My guess is they will probably end up chasing after the local guys “neoliberal” they can put all the blame on like DLR, Sturzenegger or most notoriously Cavallo who they have tried to sue out of nonsense like the purchase of the Rural or the decree of the BCRA that nationalized private debt of Arg companies in 1982 (when he was no longer head of the entity).
As most of the generals are dead or already in jail, you have to look for more recent blame holders...You know political corpses to throw to the left and keep them quiet.
How much of truth is in that Singer will take Arg bonds??
Dirty, slimy, manipulating, cheating, dishonorable Argentinian politicians, Pay up and stop trying to squirm out of your obligations.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 015. There are marketable Arg bonds, a deal like they did with Repsol would be legal but it would trigger the RUFO. Of course those bonds became a lot more worthless on Friday when the payment was sent back. So they can pay him but he'll want PV of the bonds against his judgement so probably closer to U$2B.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's no way for CFK to squirm out of paying Singer by eom July that doesn't trigger the RUFO or default. Those are the choices now.
If CFK wasn't delusional she should pay Singer, the 13 other bondholders, the Italians with cash and bonds and let the other 92% sue them for the differential. By the time the suit is won she'll be out of office and the next Prez will have to go to the IMF instead of her.
The problem is she still doesn't understand they lost and there's no turning back or extending this.
At this point my guess is they will default in July and Singer et al will start seizing assets all over the world concentrating on assets that will embarrass them and cause her problems with the population. That's why I think he'll go after LNG. Let Arg pay for it and get the ship stopped prior to entering Arg waters.
It simple, embarrassing and will cause havoc in BA.
3 birds with one stone.
Debts are to be paid one way or another. But it will only be fair and imperative that this bomb explodes on her and shutters the K economic tale.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The system doesnt work and has completely failed and yet all the provincial governments who already indebted are desperate for CFK to negotiate a solution with the holdouts for them to run to the airports off to New york to get more indebted to pay the teachers, policemen and public employees.
It is imperative that the 54% suffer from their choices and decisions.
I hope she is crazy enough to crash against the wall and noot slam the brakes inches before hitting it.
I also believe it is tragic that nobody is talking iin Argentina how did the debt come to be in the first place and what caused it.
15 CD2
Jun 28th, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is Boudou going to end up wearing some of this - he has somehow fallen out of favour, and CFK has distanced herself from him for a couple of years now?
19.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, Boudou is of another gov't generation even if he doesnt come from the same ideological background than the Ks. He was appointed by them.
Boudou will end up in jail, the real thing with him is what he knows and he can take down a lot of buddies in govt around him. My fears is that the judge as independent and decent as he has so far proven to be, may end up conceding to the Ks some “legal adaptation” in which only Boudou ends up in jail and the others are absolved.
Mind you that taking over Ciccone was a deal that Nestor Kirchner was after for himself before he passed out in 2010. The Economy Minister inherited the corrupt acquisition from CFK. She new very well what went on. And also the entire kirchnerist block that voted to expropriate Ciccone after the scandal exploded are in reality guilty over a massive cover up. I wouldn't like to be iin Lijo's shoes at the moment
18. The biggest problem Argentina has was ignoring the IMF advice and the IMF giving them too much rope to hang themselves with. The IMF should have cut them off and let them default sooner instead of giving them more and more debt without solving the structural problems.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That won't happen again
When Arg asks for a bailout they'll have to give up budgetary control,monetary control and have in country monitors. Otherwise they won't fund the line of credit.
The Rgs will squeal about sovereignty but they'll have to agree in the end or have no fuel, food or mfg in the country.
It will be for the best in the long run.
But that will be for the next generation or the one after that.
I think DLR and Lopez Murphy had a more or less reasonable policy with the deficit zero and cuts of spending. History could have been quite different the last decade if they would have just kept in power and resisted the peronist plot until the markets picked up again.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the next gov't despite all the problems they will inherit they have the resources and the power to enable a quick recovery and create the conditions for a inflow of capital and investment. The problem as I see it remains political. Will the opposition learn from the past mistakes in gov't?? Judging by their character they seem a bunch of cowards and useless fools. So perhaps you are ultimateely right that it may take another generation.
Amazing that Argentina is talking about international courts when it comes to money but can't seem to find one when it comes to a 70 year old “dispute” over the Falkland Islands.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22
Jun 28th, 2014 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sorry for Argentina but the fact remains that not many western countries will be investing in Argentina for a very long time. The west has a very long memory. Certainly the Latam countries will not come to the rescue, so much for solidarity.
24.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina heads with Nigeria and Vietnam the Frontier Markets Sentiment Index for the WSJ as of June 2014.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1699730-el-capital-mira-a-nigeria-argentina-y-vietnam
They are all waiting to see what happens once the Ks are gone. But also it is imperative that structural challenges are addressed if not no investment will come. So far this is all “in potencial”.
Money has a short memory. I am kinda surprised you think you'll get a Prez that is saner than CFK. You'd think it would be easy but I'm not so sure.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think about this, your country is ranked with countries on immanent threat of war and a civil war.
That's pretty bad.
Ohh I think anybody in the opposition even in some of the national gov't's candidates are far more “sane” than CFK is. The question is if they have the stomach to enforce the very politically costly reforms and decisions that have to be done.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think I would rather be on the top of the ranking than the bottom of the ranking with Rumania and Uganda.
27. I'm not sure there's much distinction in the leper colony of “frontier markets”.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well I have noticed that Mexico is not ranked in it. A country that is torn by drug wars and massive corruption and already received considerable investment.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But then again Mexico is not as populist and statist as Argentina is
Mexico is only doing well because it sits on our border. If it was anyplace else it would be a failed state.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I used to go to Mexico a lot and where the American travel it is basically like a city state, natives are stopped searched questioned before they are allowed in the city. I don't go any longer. There's really no reason.
I've been to Mexico. Twice. Never again!
Jun 28th, 2014 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What could be the solution to solve IMMEDIATELY the Holdout problem?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina owes to today about 230% to the Holdouts (capital + accrued interest since 2002)
If Argentina made a buyback offer of about 150-170%, it would presumably not violate the RUFO clause, because it would not be an exchange offer.
A buyback offer by a bank would definitively not violate the RUFO clause.
Such a cash buyback would also give Argentina a debt relief ob about 60-80%.
AND
Seizure risks and a technical Default would be immediately averted. Argentina could immediately return to the capital market and thus Argentina could refinance the payments to the holdouts, without using reserves
@17 “There's no way for CFK to squirm out of paying Singer by eom July that doesn't trigger the RUFO or default. Those are the choices now.”
Jun 28th, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How are you so sure? Isn't the RUFO clause up for interpretation?
33. Nope that's why they're so intent of trying to get this delayed.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17
Jun 28th, 2014 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“get the ship stopped prior to entering Arg waters.”
Who's gonna stop it out there, and a stone's throw from ARG waters?
You?
Singer?
A foreign army? (which would constitute a blockade and thus a declaration of war).
hahahahahahaha.... you really are febrile.
@2
Maybe we pay, maybe not.
But if we have to, then why not drag it out as long as possible, and bring as many people down with the ship as possible?
35. How about a call from HQ to turn around. Are you really that dumb?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You'll drag your own population with you. Look to Caracas for your immediate future. Possibly as immediate as August.
tic toc.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“35. How about a call from HQ to turn around. Are you really that dumb?”
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it seems so.
Caracas?? Mendoza?? yeah sure.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Call from HQ? Sure, foreign tankers are just going to obey US law. LOL.
Even if they did, that would be one heck of a PR victory for Singer wouldn't it?
”The man who tried to turn around ships of heating gas from Argie homes and children.
He should go right ahead, it will win him the moral high ground. hahahahaa
“The man who tried to turn around ships of heating gas from Argie homes and children. ”
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Boo-hoo
Victims-aЯg-Us ©
@40
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But it would still be a fact, wouldn't it? It's one thing to want your money back, it's another to want other's money back and make 4000% on it (Singer).
It's totally another to take an action in public opinion that would clearly indicated that a billionaire in NY wants poor people to forgo their home heating in the Southern hemisphere winter so that he can make his 4000% interest.
I think not. Singer might be evilish but not an imbecile.
Just pay your debts - simples...
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@42
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We may, but like I said, at this stage it is scorched Earth, we are taking anyone and everyone we can with us.
Goodbye : )
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 043.. Shut up biTTTch.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Go and join Comando Sabino Navarro
42. And nobody will feel more pain than your own countryman. It is your choice to pay or not.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is also your choice how to respond to the consequences.
I would love to see the spin on having a tanker seized. And yeah most companies in the world will obey US law since most large companies have US offices.
I think a couple of missing tankers at the right time would be just what you need.
Brr
Looking at the football today I'd say Uruguay have lost their bite.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At least Nostrils is prepared to back down. A few weeks ago he was saying Argentina wouldn't pay and that nobody could make them. Now he's saying they might pay. He seems to also realise it will make a difference depending on what they do.
Who would have thought that America (the proper America) could have so much influence on you country Toby?
Tic toc.
@47
Jun 28th, 2014 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“All I have to do, is dreeeeeeam, dream, dream, dream.......”
@34 funny everyone else seems to have no idea whether RUFO applies or not. I hope you have good sources.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From what I read RUFO is applicable until 31.12.2014. Perhaps that's why Arg are desperate to delay?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 049. Everyone in Argentina or in the USA where it counts?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They didn't think they'd ever have to pay either
or have their payment blocked
or or or or
Wake up and smell the coffee the dream is over and the nightmare is just beginning.
@ 49 - Here it was, I read.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Negotiations would be complicated, however. One pitfall is technical. Argentina has in the past argued that settling with holdouts would activate a Rights Upon Future Offers (RUFO) clause in the exchanged bonds, which expires at the end of this year, meaning that they would be eligible for whatever terms the holdouts got. RUFO is only activated, NML ripostes, if the offer made to the holdouts is voluntary. Since Argentina is subject to a judgment ordering it to pay NML, it believes the courts would interpret any settlement as involuntary. Anna Gelpern, a professor of law at Georgetown University, admits the clause is open to interpretation but says: “Based on what we’ve seen from the court system so far, it is more likely to be interpreted NML’s way than Argentina’s.”
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21604612-vulture-funds-win-legal-victory-over-argentinas-government-good-week-some-investors
52. That why I said in another post somewhere that CFK should concede defeat pay all the holdouts off and let the other 93% sue them over the RUFO clause. It will take awhile for it to wind through the courts like this did and by then she'll probably be dead.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ding dong
@51 both in Argentina and international media. I haven't found any opinion from American media. But ultimately, the only opinion that matters is that of the court. What I was asking to be more precise, is there any precedent such that we can be sure of what the court will rule?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 054. It is a poorly written clause and in that case the court usually finds for the individual who offered the contract in this case the bondholders.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will take 10 yrs in court to decide and a lot can happen in 10 years.
They should just pay the holdouts and see where it all washes out.
Or pay the holdouts and open a new exchange all together and see who's left.
Problem is they don't have much cash left.
Not even enough to pay for fuel this year
So who knows what will happen
CFK doesn't like to be backed in a corner but usually she gives in while kicking and screaming even though she knows she's beat.
48 TTT
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If that helps I wish you sweet dreams.
Tic
Toc
Tic
Toc
Poor idiot implanted squatter “Think” - think?!? wtf! - again demonstrates his inability to comprehend what has happened.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 17 yankeeboy
Jun 29th, 2014 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0there is a very interesting possibility to circumvent the RUFO (Rights Upon Future Offers).
The 2005 and 2010 restructuring prospects both have this clause: “if following the expiration of the Offer until December 31, 2014, Argentina voluntarily makes an offer to purchase or exchange or ...” (pp. 25 and 52 resp.).
Note the “voluntarily”.
If Argentina pays (etc.) in accordance with a court ruling, it can be argued, that the payment is not voluntarily. Although Kicillof speaks, writes and behaves like an idiot, he isn't, the world is a scene and he is playing his role.
Courts generally don't like when people circumvent a clause in the contract.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0If this ”agreement' happens before the clause expires it will end up in court.
If I were them I'd take the risk it's better than freezing in the winter.
“end up in court” is something for the next decade or two.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0IMO anything is worse than paying the suing holdouts pro rata.
Argentina must pay the judgement or negotiate some relief from the holdouts.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no option
Even another default doesn't make the judgement disappear. It just delays the inevitable and drags 400M further into despair.
Some fools on here think this next default will be like 2001.
It won't be, it will be much much worse.
and on top of that the holdouts can legitimately seize Arg assets where ever they can find them that the USA Courts are recognized. Which is just about everywhere you do business.
The noose got a lot tighter last week. CFK and minions are making this process worse. We do not find these hysterics amusing in the USA.
You couldn't make it up.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 03:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has asked OAS (Organization of American States) to help them against the holdouts. They simply have no understanding of what law is, and seem to think that it is something that can be ignored if you don't like it.
The rumors here in Argentina say that the gov't will negotiate some relief from the holdouts with a small payment in cash and the rest in bonds, like Repsol. If CFK can kick out the RUFO situation for the next decade then it's a relief, 10 more years to wait for doomsday (though we would have to pay more lawyers).
Jun 29th, 2014 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The problem would be how to pay 7-15 billion in the short term we probably don't have, so we can borrow to pay interests on 2015 debt and/or fuel because Nestor ignored all the warnings from people who knew we would run out of fuel.
I know the whole global financial system works like a Ponzi scheme but this thing what the Ks did with the debt is ridiculous and I can't believe everyone in politics and the media in Argentina didn't notice until now.
@ MagnusMaster
Jun 29th, 2014 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0they all knew that the financial policy was a first rate stinker, but as long as you haven't drowned, you are still alive.
Everybody with the exception of a few like e.g. Roberto Lavagna were hoping for one of those miracles which never materializes. The very few warned but all the rest hid their heads in the sand, and pretended everything was honky-dorey.
An overview of foreign currency reserves:
December 2007 US$ 46.2 billion.
July 2010 US$ 50.6 billion.
December 2010 US$ 52.15 billion.
January to October 2012 the Argentina Trade surplus accumulated US$ 11,5 billion.
December 2012 US$ 43.8 billion (to be fair, immediately after a payment of US$ 3.5 billion in GDP-linked bonds).
April 2013 below US$ 40 billion.
As we all know, the foreign currency reserves today may be US$ 28 billion - or much less, like perhaps 6 or 7 billion.
I am afraid the future looks rather bleak, and I worry for my many Argentino/a friends.
@64
Jun 29th, 2014 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Getting rid of Lavagna was perhaps the dumbest thing Nestor Kirchner did. Too smart and independent for Kirchner of course. They could really use Lavagna now.
There were warnings of the depleting o/g when I lived there a decade ago. They said Arg would run out in a decade and here it is.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is it takes a decade to develop large fields which still isn't happening.
Even if they settle with the holdouts they should ask the IMF to restructure all the debt under their guidance and with every condition fulfilled. Otherwise I don't see anyone investing heavily. Arg gov'ts are too unstable and corrupt. You can't keep lurching from crisis to crisis every decade. Business want's stability and predictability.
I would be surprised if they can work this out in a month. Hopefully you are right and it is all an act of defiance with the real intention of settling in the next 30 days. It is really hard to tell with these people they are inherently evil and corrupt liars.
We'll just have to see how it rolls out in the next month. It's not too much time. I will be monitoring this poolside with a hurricane punch in hand so my posts might be a little more loopy than normal over the next week!
Is no one looking on the bright side.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0With no money, Argentina cannot afford to pay or upgrade their military.
Such as actually having Warships that float and or new Fighter Aircraft.
So they will not be able to threaten the Falklands for at least the next 10 years.
Plus they will be deperate for foreign currency so any cruise ships can go where they want. Argies get upset if the cruise ships have come from the Falklands, no problem the cruise can avoid Argy and head straight for Chile.
A win-win situation really.
67 Z
Jun 29th, 2014 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine armed forces haven't had a credible force capable of a fresh invasion since the UK destroyed most of their previously incapable force in 82. That's why the UK military garrison on the islands is such a small one. Make no mistake about it though, if the presence wasn't here they would send whatever they had back in as soon as they could find a couple of boats that could float. Their defence minister conceded that as recently as last year.
@35. The Royal Navy? “Stop or we open fire and burn you to a crisp”. Oh look, Royal Navy vessels on station. Or perhaps RAF Typhoons launching anti-ship missiles. RN submarines launching torpedoes.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39. No. Foreign tankers will obey warships. “Go overboard and we'll pick you up, whilst sending your ship to the bottom. Or die with it”. ”The man who tried to turn around ships of heating gas from Argie homes and children.“ Argieland trying to save itself. Banking on Western principles. Principles argieland and the rest of latam don't have. Care for ”your” children? Then surrender! They aren't ours.
@41. Become icicles. We don't care.
@43. You don't have much capability. Take the rest of latam with you if you want. And if you do? Somebody much bigger and more intelligent will move in. The British Empire?
@48. Dreem on. It's what you do? Can you fly unaided? Can you reach the centre of the Earth? Do you have a brain?
61.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 02 MM US$ goes away in Aerolineas Argentinas
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1655342-el-pesado-costo-de-aerolineas-argentinas
4 MM AR$ per day to pay FpT (free football trransmitions)
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1655342-el-pesado-costo-de-aerolineas-argentinas
23 MM AR$ for transport subsidies per year.
Top ten ranking of polemical expenditures for 2014
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1655342-el-pesado-costo-de-aerolineas-argentinas
Just a couple of days before the SCOTUS decision of not taking the case the government decreed and increase in expenditure iin Propaganda, football and welfare subsidies.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1655342-el-pesado-costo-de-aerolineas-argentinas
Nope I really really do believe that the best thing that Argentina can do is DEFAULT AND RECESS to obliteration.
Yep, Judge Griesa blocked the payment. Told the bank to give the money back. And will it be next week that Kissitoff appears before the court charged with contempt. 15 years in an American prison. Bend over and take this. Don't like it? Down the throat then!
Jun 29th, 2014 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 065. You are right. Getting rid of Lavagna was really stoopid but aligned with the Peronist dogma which states that the only one allowed to think is the Supreme Leader.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 070. I'm watching the game right now and feeling sick because all the money being poured into illegal pro government ads. If all this ad space was commercially sold, football transmissions would pay for themselves. The worst part is seeing Messi's goal after the scene in which Nestor takes down Videla's portrait. So much sh1t becomes toxic.
Only one way. Block all interests of the United States and England.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brasil nut, unfortunately that wouldnt matter much. But…. If the City of London and Wall Street blocked YOUR interests you would get totally shut down and impoverished very quickly indeed. Be careful what you wish for…
Jun 29th, 2014 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do hope Judge Griesa lives long enough to finish the job, I hope he as an understudy.
Jun 29th, 2014 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@74
Jun 30th, 2014 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really? If the rest of the world stopped lending to the USA and England, and you were barred from borrowing in the markets, your economies would be on your knees in a matter of 48-72 hours.
Matters appear to be coming to a head. Must be worrying times for the Kirchner Family.
Jun 30th, 2014 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Get off your knees daddy is not around tobi. What you say would mean the world would have nowhere to invest money........at least investments that get paid back. Not to mention where would they sell their goods......export to Argentina? LOlolololololol
Jun 30th, 2014 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0@72
Jun 30th, 2014 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0My sympathies Tarquin. Peronists aren't exactly subtle are they? As we say in these here parts, how much can a koala bear?!
@78
Jun 30th, 2014 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really?
Japan?
Germany?
Paris?
Australia?
Hong kong?
Switzerland?
Milan?
Singapore?
Canada?
Scandinavia?
Sao Paulo?
Mumbai?
Taiwan?
South Korea?
Dubai?
You live in your jingoistic Anglo fairyland, “the world would have nowhere to invest money”
You so overrate the importance of New York and London these days. You don't matter nearly as much as you did, and the trend is you will matter less and less. Get used to it. Dust you were, and dust you shall become.
80
Jun 30th, 2014 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Get used to it. Dust you were, and dust you shall become.”
...thus speaketh the prophet
*rolls eyes*
:-D
The Trolling Stone is at your service to always speak truth.
Jun 30th, 2014 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse 082
Jun 30th, 2014 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0...er... ...I was actually only joking.
um, you didn't think that I was ... ??
sorry Nostrils, nobody thinks you have “the sight”. :-I
just the reverse, really...
Well I thought you were trying to be objective, for a change. Yes, I guess I was wrong.
Jun 30th, 2014 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0now, you're joking.
Jun 30th, 2014 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, he did block the payments. He blocked the payments under his ruling by which you said you would abide. The inability to understand basic concepts of justice are quite staggering
Jun 30th, 2014 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Troy how old do you possibly think titti boi tobi can possibly be?
Jun 30th, 2014 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 01-he has not live- he is always here
2-he is objectively challenged
3-he has never traveled out of his city in Mendoza
4-he hates women.....and sex for that matter
5-he is obvious the “new” kind of Argentine
15-20 is my guess.
BTW Troy......back home from my Argentina trip.
The story headline is incorrect. Argentina is not “claiming” Judge Thomas Griesa blocked regular, timely payment to a large majority of Argentina creditors.
Jun 30th, 2014 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Griesa did it, and that's a fact no matter which way you look at it. Is that simple, folks!
Argentina did pay--in time for June's end deadline--and Griesa prevented 92 per cent of Argentina creditors from getting their money.
The money is still sitting in the New York Mellon Bank and will remain there. The gauchos, folks, are not taking it back. It's a legitimate payment to creditors who negotiated a bond value reduction.
Now, why would Griesa be blocking payment to those creditors?
Simple!
It's because he is working with 1 per cent of the creditors--Paul Singer and company--to get him 100 per cent face value of distressed bonds he bought for pennies--just for that purpose--a few years ago.
The remaining seven per cent did not sue.
From there, you may conclude what you want.
However, let's remember that, since Néstor Kirchner and Cristina Fernández de Kirchner assumed their respective presidencies, they have been negotiating tough to obtain the best possible payment conditions of the foreign debt. Get used to it.
Why? Because that's the least anybody, including every single one of those who wrote comments here would expect of their politicians--unless their interests lie elsewhere.
What riles vultures and their friends is that for the first time, Argentina governments have acted on behalf and for the benefit of the country.
Most previous governments had sided with the country's creditors, negotiated against their own country, each time exponentially increasing the debt and accepting ruinous conditions, which led the country to its disastrous meltdown of 2001.
@ 88 Enrique Massot
Jun 30th, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I take it that you have not read the judgement of Judge Griesa?
If so, why do you interpret it in this convoluted manner?
Could it be you are so indoctrinated that you believe TMBOA is not insane but is a beacon of probity for The Dark Country?
Ha, ha, ha.
Get real.
(88) Sr. Enrique Massot
Jun 30th, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I couldn't have said it better...
By the way.... Any relation with the NP?
Regards
El Think
Chubut, Patagonia Argentina.
The truth is plain and simple folks....Argentina is dirtbags, cumbuckets and swill pails.
Jun 30th, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's face it they borrowed well over 100,000,000,000 and will only pay back 27,000,000,000 under the best of circumstances, unless the law makes them do something else.
What happened to the other 73,000,000,000 ??? Who lost it....grandma....retirees along with other big investors.
Did not Argentina agree to litigate in NY courts?
Did not Argentina waive sovereignty under FSI act?
Why do scumbags call them vultures, because they buy low and sell high? Should they do it the other way around? (dumbfucks)
Does Argentina really think the the law of one sovereign state in the United States be ignored because of one country demands them to?
Who forced Argentina to waive their sovereign rights to borrow money?
93% of creditors that agreed to restructure means SHIT. Finance is NOT a democracy. You want democratic financing........borrow rubles, reals and yuan. See how that works out.
It is time for kirchner to pay the piper. Almost 70% of Argentines what the government to negotiate and pay and put this behind them. #88 be a good boy and go back to soccer.
88 Enrique,
Jun 30th, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It's because he is working with 1 per cent of the creditors--Paul Singer and company--to get him 100 per cent face value of distressed bonds he bought for pennies--just for that purpose--a few years ago.”
Judge Griesa is NOT “working with Singer”.
He made a judgement according to Contract Law, after a lengthy court battle and a year's stay.
You would have us believe that once again, there is a conspiracy to screw Argentina.
Argentina has already “de-valued” ( a “haircut” is too benign and misleading a term)most of the bonds to 23% of their value - 77% of what was lent in good faith and legal agreement is “gone”, stolen or whatever.
Griesa is saying that Argentina, as the borrower, cannot dictate what the bond holders will receive by refusing to pay those who are legally entitled to more.
As to your politicians, the K's have used the 100% of BORROWED money, $100b, as they liked - frittered away, stolen, paid to La Campora, who knows.
Your economy recovered after 2002, but most of the money has not been paid back - your K's have done everything in their power not to.
It is a direct result of those actions that have seen further Investment and trust in Argentina cease, and the economy falter again.
A responsible government without criminally corrupt leaders, would have paid back, ensuring further investment and trade.
CFK will be leaving shortly, before you become like Venezuela.
@87 Captain Poppy
Welcome back!
Yes, I think Nostrils is likely about 15-20.
That's also the amount of time that CFK should spend in prison.
@73. Hoping for a war, are you? Do try to understand. WE (the UK) had to come down and teach you how to get off ships. If you like WE could come down and teach you the other method. Exploding your ships under you.
Jun 30th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@76. Really? That's an awfully big IF. You're getting really desperate now, aren't you? The FACT is that the rest of the world isn't going to stop loaning money to the UK or the US. Because the loans ALWAYS get repaid. Not something that can be said about argieland.
@80. Do tell us why people would invest in the places you mention? Why do you switch from countries to cities and back again? Just look at your list. How many of those countries would let foreigners invest? What does Switzerland produce except chocolate, watches and cuckoo clocks? There isn't anything in Sao Paulo worth 10p.
@82. What exactly do you know about “truth”? Here are some truths. Argieland is a larcenous, thieving, mendacious, lying, conniving, corrupt, criminal place. Broadly speaking, a high percentage of the words you type merit one of more of those descriptive words. Here's another truth. With luck, argieland is headed for oblivion. And you wouldn't believe the number of people poised to kick it. Here's a tip. Trot round all your country's friends and say you need to borrow US$1.33 billion. NOW. Watch them all rush forward. To make it more “relevant”, hold your breath until you've got the money.
@88. New to the Propaganda Ministry, are you? Read the background first and avoid showing yourself to be a total dickhead. Judge Griesa's judgement was quite clear. Kissedoff thought he could pull a fast one and make the judge look stupid. But Judge Griesa is way smarter than Kissedoff. And the judge has been kind enough to tell the bank to return the money to argiescumland. He could have seized the lot. Told argiescumland to comply with the judgement and decided that the taken the dosh as a fine. Never raise two fingers to the judge with the power!
Insults doth not an argument make. Let's instead remember a few facts.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina defaulted in 2001 after previous governments, including the 1976-1983 civic-military dictatorship, heavily borrowed under horrendous conditions.
From 2003, Nestor Kirchner and later Cristina Fernandez began to rebuild the country.
They negotiated tough on behalf of their country--what else is to be expected of good politicians? obtaining significant debt reductions in 2005 and 2010. The country faithfully paid its obligations to 92 per cent of creditors ever since.
In 2005 Argentina paid off its debt with the IMF, freeing itself from recessionary debt-restructurings measures.
More recently, the country negotiated compensation to expropriated Repsol, and renegotiated its debt with the Paris Club. Hardly a rogue country!
Paul Singer-Elliott-MNL Capital represents 1 per cent of Argentina creditors--the remaining 7 per cent are holdouts who did not sue.
Singer never lent money to Argentina. Instead, he bought post-default bonds for $48 million, and now stand to get $1,400 million if Griesa has his way. Wouldn't be nice if it came to fruition?
Anyway. During those years, the country reconstructed its economy, grew by leaps and bounds, improved social justice, health and education for the impoverished, and reconstructed its devastated domestic production. This is not BS. Use the Internet to read impartial sources such as the CIA Fact Book, the United Nations, OAS, etc.
Have the Kirchners been perfect? Not by any means! Their governments were/are made of people, and people are imperfect. However, as a whole they have been way better than any other previous government. And they've been trying their best.
Almost forgot. Want to learn a thing or two about the solidity of vulture-backer Griesa?
Go to The Robin Room-Where judges are judged.
http://www.therobingroom.com/Judge.aspx?ID=1407
Keep watching for the next chapter folks! Will be fun.
94
Jul 01st, 2014 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0But if the Ks “reconstructed its economy, grew by leaps and bounds, improved social justice, health and education for the impoverished” why does the country stink of December 2001 ??Not only Arg is in recession but it also suffers from near hyperinflation.
And yes, it is time the CIA Fact Book, the United Nations, OAS, etc. stop publishing INDEC numbers and declare Argentina's numbers as N/A (non available). Because I imagine you are retarded enough to believe that the UN and the CIA is collecting numbers and running polls in each country in the world.
The rest is a load of K bull shit, not even worth replying too.
Just got mail from BNY Mellon that conforms the return of the money that would have paid the bondholders today if not for the robber baron Singer who should be in gaol for what he did in 2006.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 04:47 am - Link - Report abuse 094
Jul 01st, 2014 - 06:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0The fact that Mr Singer was sufficiently astute to take a risk and purchase debt at a higher rate than Argentina was willing to pay has nothing to do with anything. Overall Argentina did very well out of the deal so can't really complain.
As for the Judges ratings it is not perhaps surprising that he is not so popular in some sections of Argentine society. In the circumstances Argentina should pay up, avoid default which will be disastrous for the Argentine poor and move on.
96 “British bomber” aka “Hepatia”
Jul 01st, 2014 - 06:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0BritishBomber/Hepatia,
Get lost !!
You 're a fraud !!
Your “granny” would be ashamed of you if she was real.
So British Bomber got a letter TODAY.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 07:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Even through Argentina had until TODAY to pay, British Bomber got the letter on the same DAY?
So BNY Mellon sent out a letter on Friday? Or if it was was from New York to..... Hull UK, they would have sent it out about a WEEK ago.
So BNY Mellon sent a letter out knowing that Argentina's payment was not only coming but would be returned?
Wow. That almost sounds a bit like El Diego taking Gisele to meet Sergei, the Govenor of Rio at Government House.
2.5 months after he quit the job and moved out.
BB/Hepatia is about as “bright” as “aussiesunshine”
Jul 01st, 2014 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0more good news for Argentina
Jul 01st, 2014 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0”The World Trade Organization (WTO) decided that Argentina breached the rules of trade agreements with the restriction of imports”
http://www.cronista.com/valor/Fallo-de-la-OMC-contra-Argentina-por-restringir-las-importaciones-20140701-0007.html
Troy
Jul 01st, 2014 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0+1
Enrique is a good K parrot. Lies with just enough half truths to confuse the ignorant masses.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0It looks like the K lies and illegal actions are all hitting at the same time.
I couldn't be happier.
Guess what he is another expat old troll living in Canada.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I feel a deep disgust and anger with these kind of falks who cheer on the Ks living safely abroad and tell us what is really going on in the country.
Someone might want to tell him about the appalling state of the healthcare system.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They had to cancel operations at the children's hospital because they didn't have heat!
@99
Jul 01st, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't you have the internet. The mail is delivered 10 sec after sent.
BNY Mellon was told not to pay on Thurs I think. They don't say.
The reason they are not paying my grandmother is because of the robber baron Singer who should be in gaol for what he has done. He is no better than a street mugger. Mugging old ladies.
#70 Cabeza Dura:
Jul 01st, 2014 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...I really really do believe that the best thing that Argentina can do is DEFAULT AND RECESS to obliteration.”
It is appalling--and revealing--how some members of the Argentina opposition are celebrating the Griesa-Singer team attacks, hoping they'll help bring down the Kirchner government.
They are expecting to eat the scraps left out by the vultures.
Not a pretty sight.
You are a former terrorist leftist turd living in Canada since the 1970s... So dont and come and say nothing to me.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only vultures are in Balcarce 50 and the opposition should be calling for the gov't to resing and aticipate elections before the end of the year. To many pacifists starting from the useless Pope to the media and the public opinion. A couuntrry of cowards....
And you are the best example of this-.
So shut up b_tch !!
107. Only in the warped mind of a La Campora idiot does the flagrant disregard of laws,contracts,treaties and convention that the filthy Ks have committed over the last decade seem logical and right.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It has taken the wheels of justice a while to turn but now you're seeing the consequences of being an untrustworthy deadbeat scofflaw.
That's why they're happy. The only way for the system to fix itself is to arise from its burning ashes.
109. You are right in the end of the day it is a deep need for justice and someone that puts a limit to the Ks that is why we are thankfull to Mr Griesa and our local version judge Lijo.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think CD has got the right attitude, get it done, get it sorted and start again, only this time get it right!
Jul 01st, 2014 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe I am wrong, but that is the impression I get from his posts.
The man should be in politics.
111.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But you see yourself in this thread you have hospitals with no heating to cover surgery rooms while Aerolineas Argentinas is losing about 2 MM UUS$ a day and football transmissions around AR$ 4 million per day. Its just plain simple to me that the system is inmoral and the only way is if it all falls crashing down. If basic public needs are not atendended out of mismanagement why should Arrg Airlines be flying or Football be transmited ??
Then I have a old useless prick in Canada telling me how horrified he is about and completely taking it out of context ...”I really really do believe that the best thing that Argentina can do is DEFAULT AND RECESS to obliteration.”
@111 - True, but CD would be standing on a platform of “Bread tomorrow” rather than “bread today, + some football and then fcuked in a couple of years”. Faced with this choice, no true argentinean is going to vote for bread tomorrow. Sorry CD...but you knew this already I suppose!
Jul 01st, 2014 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Big difference between you and him.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He's an idiot, you are not!
He claims to be a patriot, you act like one!
He wants the status quo, you don't!
He lives in Canada, you live in in Argentina, that means he runs away, you don't!
He does not have my respect, you do!
Cabeza Dura, you would get my vote
Jul 01st, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Welsh wizard.
Jul 01st, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Therein lies the problem, but as some wise person once said, just because someone says it can't be done, that's no reason for not trying.
LOL thanks Tarq
Jul 02nd, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#110 Cabeza Dura:
Jul 02nd, 2014 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...someone that puts a limit to the Ks that is why we are thankfull to Mr Griesa.”
Oh-my-Gosh. No comment--this speaks volumes.
By the way yes I live in Canada--but it doesn't matter. I still support my home country--Can't imagine how someone may be living in Argentina and cheering for the vultures.
118 “Enrique”
Jul 03rd, 2014 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0What part of your “home country” do you support?
The Government that created/exacerbated the problems?
CD2 has more credibility than you.
You choose NOT to live in Argentina, WHY??
CD2 sees the results every day, personally.
CD2 has to live with the repercussions of government policies and financial decisions and is directly affected - YOU ARE NOT!
He wants the best for his country and his future...
What do YOU want, and for whom??
With all due respect...let's not get personal here.
Jul 03rd, 2014 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is a public forum...we should be debating issues--not where somebody lives.
120. Massot
Jul 03rd, 2014 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are an ugly old turd who lives in Canada. And that is the whole point you have no credibility as all the other Expat Ks and leftists that come to this forums. You know what all this makes you ?? Its not a matter of beiing personal or not its a matter of being a hypocrit or not... And you are a disgusting HYPOCRIT .. If this country was all you say it is under thee Ks why are you not here and paying its taxes??
How ironic that one of the typical cliches the Ks use is “Uno tiene que saber de donde esta parado cuando habla” when they look for the past of anybody that speaks against them...
“One must know from where he is standing when he speaks” ... And in a sence they are right.
TWIMC
Jul 03rd, 2014 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent presentation from my boy Kicillof today at the OAS in Watchington...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2OzssI_-T0&list=PLry2W0bcBZ9yM1JOf24GB2dhy30hf_HEr
Think is proud about Argies like him at the helm...
(120) Enrique Massot
As Cervantes never wrote...:
“Ladran, amigo Sancho, luego cabalgamos.”
Or
“Deja que los perros ladren Sancho amigo, es señal que vamos pasando.”
Or
“Señor, los perros están ladrando. — Tranquilo, Sancho, es señal de que estamos cabalgando.”
;-)
120 Enrique
Jul 04th, 2014 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0“With all due respect...let's not get personal here.
This is a public forum...we should be debating issues--not where somebody lives.”
This not personal.
Looking at things objectively, YOU have only voiced your opinion, with nothing to back it up.
CD2 has offered his opinion too, but as he lives there, he has credibility.
#122 Think:
Jul 04th, 2014 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Great to have the always relevant, famous dicho de Don Quijote!
Thank you for providing the link to Axel Kicilloff presentation in the OAS in Washington. Could not stop watching. When you hear a young man like Axel speaking, you got to have hope in the future. Oh! And he lives in the country too!!
Oh, and he has a vested interest in supporting his corrupt cronies that PAY him.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 03:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0122... Hey Stink
Jul 04th, 2014 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0The inheritance of your boy Kicillof.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2yyhgtk8eaz5nw/Nueva%20Deuda%20Kiciloviana.pdf
La deuda Kiciloviana that the next gov't has to pay at that is not counting what he is going to pay the holdouts with bonds or what the holdouts will confiscate from Argentina....... Say no me more
(124) Enrique Massot
Jul 04th, 2014 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My pleasure....
Jupppp...... nice to see our Young Ones doing such a good work....
It gives one thenecessary stamina to bear with those not so bright Young Ones as that Argie/Pied Noir at (126)....
...oh dear Gawd!
Jul 04th, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0add “Enrique” to the Think Sock Puppet list.
It's funny when he has conversations with himself - and they all sound the same, word for word
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