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Montevideo, September 25th 2023 - 10:08 UTC
The Bank of New York Mellon, fearful of being sued by Argentine bondholders and unwilling to defy a court order blocking their coupon payments, is seeking guidance from U.S. Judge Thomas Griesa on what to do with the money. Read full article
We see here in this article how slippery is Argentina. Nasty.
Although the squealers may think that they have pulled a fast one, Judge Griesa will indue course put them straight.
If they unfreeze the payments then Argentina will simply do nothing in the negotiations. It'll just be kicked down the road again which is what they want.
Wouldn't be surprised if there's an Argentine with a poison tipped umbrella stalking the streets of NY looking for Griesa
It was the courts decision, Griesa is the spokesman, if he is incapacitated someone else will take over. In fact he has appointed a negociator.
Perhaps CFK would like all future decisions made by argentine courts..lol
“This set of investors contend their bonds are governed by laws of England and Wales and at no point are payments processed through the United States or in U.S. dollars and therefore should not be subject to Griesa's jurisdiction.”
Mmm. I regularly have my retirement and investment monies earned in “England and Wales” transferred to my bank in Uruguay by one of the main international money experts. There is only ONE route for the money from the UK to the Americas: New York via a clearing bank for onward transfer to the final bank.
As far as “never in US dollars” so what?
No, this bunch made the deal with the Devil: they have to stick with the shitty end of the stick. Perhaps they will be more careful next time.
Plus, why do NY Mellon not understand the term “return the money to Argentina”? The fact that the argie crooks twist ownership to the bond holders means nothing, it had not been disbursed and the evidence of that is residing (albeit electronically) in the bank. It seems to me that NY Mellon have been associating with the argie crooks for far too long and have become tainted by the contact.
Holdout investor Aurelius Capital Management asked Griesa on Wednesday to file an order directing BNY Mellon to return the money to Argentina.
They should be irrelevant in this matter and hold no sway as it is between the bank,Argentina and the creditors who want to get paid.
That part of it does not need the holdouts involved.
Maybe Gresia will have a heart attack from the stress.
Maybe they should have used the cash to pay all the creditors proportionally under the pari passu concept. Everyone would have received some cash and Argentina would still be facing default if it refuses to pay the rest.
6. The holdouts ARE creditors that deserve to be paid.
You still don't realize you lost.
Your high govt officials wouldn't be qualified to work in McDonald here.
Let them know that after the make the rounds complaining to anyone who will still listen to the crazy they still lost and need to pay.
My guess is the us govt is getting fed up with the lithium soaked hag and her childish antics.
The bank can simply interplead the money into the court and extinguish any potential liability it may have to any claimants. Fundamental legal process. No problems.
It is not for Judge Griesa to outline Bank of New York Mellon's internal procedures. It should have denied the deposit since it was clearly in contravention of the court's order. Transfer the money back and tell argieland that the deposit was made under force majeur and cannot, legally, be accepted.
Are there any actual grownups left in Argentina?
When the leaders of a country act like bratty teenagers caught cheating on a school test, what hope is there for anyone to step up and set these people straight?
Maybe it's a cultural thing, but since when do you respond to a US court ruling by holding endless press conferences deriding the judge and declaring to the world that you have no intentions of abiding by the judge's rulings?
I am sure the judge felt ambushed by the leaders of a large country throwing childish temper tantrums at every turn...
Who said real Argentines are not fond of judge Griesa??
Open letters to Griesa
I don't think they would want to. The other bondholders are not party to the litigation and everyone is desperately trying to keep it that way...
To start, lets remember that Pari passu means on equal footing and by extension, fairly, and without partiality. How can anybody expect fair judgement from a NY Court judging money to go either to a New York-based-multimillionaire or to a country which started a war with our fellow Britons? It lacks sense.
Aside, the billionaire Paul Singer is just the 2 percent of the bondholders, but yet, Judge Griesa is ignoring the debt restructuring accepted by the other 98% of the bondholders. In fact, Judge Griesa denies the other 98% of the bondholders, to collect their money. Isn't partiality there? Or at least dictatorship of the ultra-rich/powerful?
And lastly, Griesa base his ruling in a 2000 Commercial Court ruling, of Brussels, to stop Peru payments to some debtors and not to all. The motion was introduced the previous day by Singer. Peru did not have time to answer, fight it, and avoid Default, and Peru simply paid. So, it is still open to litigation. Go Argentina.
Although, methinks there is a loss of time, resources and humor, trying to defend the Argentine case, in this environment. Just give the money to the vulture and ran. I would rather try to make a case against the individual who counseled Argentina to accept the Jurisdiction of the NY Courts for those bonds.
And Griesa should recuse himself, since he controversially ruled again and again against Argentina, becoming interested part.
Aside, the billionaire Paul Singer is just the 2 percent of the bondholders, but yet
To finish let's not forget you are not a lawyer. This is not about democracy when you whine PS is 2%, it is contract law....period. The sovereign state of New York, which, btw has a GDP twice the size of the sovereign state of Argentina, is not going to marginalize there laws for Argentina's economic success in defrauding bondholders who LOST 77% of their principle investment. That is not restructuring......that is reneging of a contractual obligation. Regardless of the outcomes, Argentina will always be dirtbag borrowers that NEVER pay back all they borrow. ANYONE that invests in Argentina gets exactly what they deserve and investors now understand that.....even the Chin are weary.
@15 Well the bond holders should have never bought the bonds in the first place.
Who ever advised them to buy high risk bonds is the culprit here.
Same as the dirt bag Singer, he is like a fly on a turd.
Not all investments make a profit and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose! The bond holders own greed led them into this mess. Maybe they learn to do due diligence next investment.
@14. Your English lets you down. If you actually had English as a natural language, I could point at a minimum of 6 mistakes. You're just a latam troll.
@16. A typical argie. We knew that we were trying to sell crap. You should have known as well. Therefore, it's your fault. On the other hand, those that perpetrate a fraud are guilty. Argieland is fraudulent. GUILTY. Pay up! Or be isolated and die.
Spoken like an ingrained kleptomaniac. I feel sorry for your neighbors.
The bondholders screwed themselves when they loaned the money.
They were greedy looking for a big payout and neglected to do due diligence when investing, seeing that Argentina owed 100 Billion already.
Well the bond holders should have never bought the bonds in the first place.
Who ever advised them to buy high risk bonds is the culprit here.
Not all investments make a profit and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose!
And Griesa should recuse himself, since he controversially ruled again and again against Argentina, becoming interested part.
A very eloquent expression of the Argentine view of jurisprudence.
BN Y is correct they are going to be sued.
The money deposited is the only Argies asset that the robber baron singer can get in America. Let us see him take it.
Anyone know why the money deposited in the BNYM by Argentina can not be put into an escow account in the courts name until a negociated settlement is made. Then the BNYM cannot be sued by the bondholders.
WTF can anyone sue a back for obeying a court order????
@21. See my #9. That procedure is called interpleader and it is a basic legal procedure which BNY can do and which will eliminate any and all liability re those funds.
I am in Bs As now and plan to be for a couple of months. I don't want to see the sh·t hit the fan in such a way that the Arg populace suffers more than they have already, but the Arg govt is incredibly inept (and, as they say, people get the govt they deserve). Kicilloff, Captinovich, Timmerman (and their fellow vultures who ate the flesh of the original bondholders) say the dumbest things while KFC(CFK) keeps a low profile. The silly propaganda campaign aimed at undoing the US Sup Ct and 2nd Circ Ct of App' s affirmance of Griesa's rulings is simply mind boggling - a transparent effort to influence a judicial system so foreign to the corrupt debilitated Arg analog that KFC and cohorts refuse to believe it is not subject to their political pressure. Ergo they continue to lambast the US judges and the judicial system in the hopes they can influence them as if they were like their local judges. Meanwhile, they continue to attempt to further disassemble the independence of the Arg judiciary (along with a fragile free press).
I 'd have a lot more sympathy for the Arg vultures - the ones who ate the flesh of the original bond holders - if they had negotiated a fair workout after the original default instead of simply offering a take it or nothing option AND if they didn't continue to subsidize the energy bills of their citizens ( to win votes and stay in power) and instead allocated those billions of subsidies to a greater % payout to their foreign creditors.
#16 klingon ...you are quite right. Now.....let us tell that to the 93% who bought Argentine junk grade bonds after Argentina defaulted as well. If you invest in a country who waives their own sovereign rights........let the buyers beware.....that means the 93%
You do not like the laws of 1 of 50 sovereign states in the USA.........why did Argentina issue them there?
Did you think that the laws of the sovereign state of New York was going to piss on their own laws for the sake of international politics? Really.....did you think that?
You last 2 sentences should also be applicable to the recklessness and mismanagement of the Argentine government as well. If Argentina does not like the laws of the USA.......on your next bond issue, issue them in Buenos Aires, then tell me how that goes?
What's going on MercoPress? What you don't like of my comments? That I sound leftie? Oh no, my English is bad, right? Or is it that I defend Argentina? Because you allowed every insolence, rudeness and misrepresentation against Argentina, but play offended for my naming Paul Singer? Or is it that as Uruguayan you do not let pass every possible opportunity to demean Argentina? Tell me. Have balls, would you? No, no, change that; just forget about it. You, neurotic-selective self-denominated news organization do not deserve my attention. Neither my friends' attention.
Argentina has not issued the bonds in any american state. They are in England in Euros. These are the bonds that highway robber singer is trying to steal from my old grandmother.
@25 ... I don't normally engage trolls, much less self proclaimed arrogant ones, but if I take your post to mean that you are no longer going to post here, then I applaud your decision. You are not as smart or informed as you think you are. You come across as a mean spirited cry baby. Please don't change your mind. Just go away.
You are quite right we do not want your attension, thanks, so if its too hot in the kitchen why go there.
For you and your fake granny. Do you realize how transparent it is you are Argentine?
The basis of this new strategy arose from a strategic error on Argentina's part which was rooted in its history. Because Argentina was historically so unstable, it would have been difficult for it to solicit investors to buy bonds in Buenos Aires under Argentine jurisdiction, as few external investors trusted Argentina courts to enforce bonds against their own government. This consideration led Argentina to transfer the issue of bonds to New York, under United States law, on April 20, 1976, as were most subsequent bond issues. Bonds were thus under a special kind of bond contract, a Fiscal Agency Agreement which was drafted by its American attorneys under New York law. The FAA stipulated that the repayments on the bonds were to be made by Argentina through a trustee based in New York (meaning that the U.S. courts did have jurisdiction over that party to order injunctive relief).
In the Fiscal Agency Agreement, Argentina's attorneys included a boilerplate pari passuclause, but neglected to include a collective action clause. As a result, Argentina could not force NML Capital or the other holdouts to participate in the 2005 or 2010 restructurings. Even worse, the pari passu clause was interpreted by U.S. courts as meaning that Argentina could either pay all its bondholders or none, but could not pay only those who cooperated with the 2005 restructuring and ignore the rest. This was considered to be fair by the U.S. courts because Argentina was bound by its attorneys' actions; having enjoyed access to New York capital markets, they reasoned, it now had to bear the burden. No formal mechanism for sovereign debt restructuring exists in the U.S. (whose jurisdiction governs Argentine bond payments).
@29 Well if Argentina had such a bad history, why did these greedy a holes buy the bonds in the first place?
The Argies have written that they are willing to bypass BNY.
Both of your points are irrelevant to the current facts at hand. BB....tell me again about your post#26.
Greed is not illegal....nor is stupidity so you and they are ok.
The bonds my grandmother has are issued under England not America. These are the bonds that highway robber singer is holding hostage. I thought you understood that. These are the bonds the Argies are trying to pay. They have said that they will bypass America.
Purely to make money, I presume you work , why? To make money, thats what makes the world go round. If the bonds were issued in England why are Argentina not taking their case to the English courts, funny that!
@34 And with that come an inherent risk when you invest.
I have an idea if Argentina has to pay the vultures.
We construct a large statue of a vulture picking apart Argentina and for the head of the vulture we put Singers face on there. Make it a national landmark and put it on Florida so all the tourists take photos.
Will it help fix our debt problems? No But Singer will be famous for his despicable business practices. He will be the butt of jokes between anyone he does business with.
What you can't seem to get through your thick head, much like the idiots currently running your country is, Singer based his investment on NY State law backing up Argentina's investment.
And he was right
And he deserves to get paid.
And he will get paid
Whether it is now or later makes no difference the interest, penalty, legal fees keep clicking along every day.
I hope you default so he can seize assets and I HOPE HOPE HOPE he starts with the LNG shipments in August.
That would be delightful.
@36 I am sure our neighbor friends could help us with the LNG shipments.
For example send payment to Bolivia and they buy the LNG and ship it to an Argentine port. Singer can't get his greedy hands on it then. I am sure our govt is currently hiding any assets they have or have stolen at the moment to keep it away from the vultures. Kristine will no doubt be working on hiding her stolen loot first.
I think you are clutching at straws here. None of your neighbours are going to help you , they are all in financial trouble. But you are right Argentina will hide all its assets as will CFK and all your corrupt lawmakers. But you will be waiting for many years before anyone and that includes your neighbours will invest in your totally corrupt country. Oh by the way how is VACA MUERTA doing, plenty of USA conpanies investing are they?
@38 We are not the only country with financial problems
If that were true at least the difference is that the USA will manage the problem where Argentina keeps kicking the can down the road until the new president takes over. God help him is all I can say. It is little wonder that you do not have a credible opposition as I for one would not like to inherit the mess CFKs government are going to leave.
So your logic is that if other people have problems, yours are lesser?
No, your problems are still the same. Time to pay up and stop squealing.
The highway robber baron singer does not deserve to be able to steal money from my grandmother. He deverses to be in gaol for the gr in 2008.
Your grandmother should have done due diligence, she should have known that a country such as Argentina would rob her blind just as the government are doing even today.It is not Singer's fault that Argentina drew up the contract in USA law. Argentina could not borrow your grandmothers money unless they did exactly that. She will just have to sue Argentina for her money back AFTER Singer has been paid. Have a nice day.
The Argies have always paid. Robber baron Singer is trying to steal the last payment. My grandmother has not lent money the Argies under american law. Her bonds are under English law. You know nothing.
Seems your grandmother is dumber than you being you do not seem to know where the bonds where underwritten.
Stupid is as stupid does. Buying Argentine bonds is stupid.
Let's see now, your grandmother gave her life savings. Example: US$ 5000
invested. Argentina will only pay 20 cents to the US$. So she if all goes well get US$ 1000 back. And you think that is a good investment LOL, she should be grateful that Singer was prepared to take the Government of Argentina on for more than 20 cents in the dollar. Who do you think is the better business person your grandmother or SINGER?
Non of that is true. I have already told you.
Then tell us british bomber how your grandmother bought these bonds? Did she inherit them? That would be the only way she would not lose money.
Not true. Don't you know about bonds.
We are still waiting on your answer? It seems that you cannot answer that question?
How did she buy the bonds, Hepatia? With what money? How comes she lives in Hull? How does she support herself in Hull? Does she rely on the British government and the NHS?
If your story is true, answer the questions.
My grandmother's financial trades are non of your business. You ate an agent of wall st robber baron singer. We are the 93%.
Everything you say is a falsehood Hepatia. Why do you keep posting bullshit!
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