MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Kicillof confirms meeting of Argentine delegation with mediator Pollack
Economy minister Axel Kicillof has confirmed that Argentina would enter talks with mediator 'Special Master' Daniel Pollack over the legal battle currently raging between the nation and holdout hedge funds as 'vulture funds', while clarifying that those funds would not be present. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesArgentina continues to squeal.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 08:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0More pointless delay from the squealers. All that is needed is one of the these squealers; Javier, Pablo, Federico or Axel to sign the cheque. Nothing more and nothing less.
Pay your debts squealers
I think they want to default, they are in the shit and they know it.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0This way, they can put the blame on someone else, paint it has yet another international conspiracy against the Republic.
The sad thing is, is that most Argentines will believe it!
It's a bit like we will not talk with the UK if the Falkland Islanders are present.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think they do want to default as that would be the end of CFK and everyone would lose their savings to hyper inflation again. It would also be a very cold winter.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think they will have to issue new bonds if they can't kick it down the road (which is plan 1)
Those massive egos, like over-inflated balloons, so big and paper-thin. They can never face up to the reality of losing or face their adversary. Always hiding behind someone or shouting abuse from a distance. It is the Argentine way.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The world was shocked by the last default, the largest ever known, and some sympathy was felt for Argentina. Not this time. The way their wet-behind-the-ears politicians behave is embarrassing.
An agreement with the Holdouts would be a win-win situation for everybody!
Jul 04th, 2014 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0For Argentina, for the Holdouts and also for the exchange bondholders, whose bonds rates would also be considerably increased.
Already now, with the expectations for an agreement, as we see, borrowing costs are lowering considerable.
An completed final agreement with the Holdouts would improve Argentina's ratings, initiate a firework of investments and enable also cheaper credits for argentine companies.
Also seizure risks and a technical Default would be immediately averted. Argentina could immediately return to the capital market and thus Argentina could refinance the payments to the holdouts, without using reserves.
@ 6 Holdout.from.Germany
Jul 04th, 2014 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0The crooks running The Dark Country have no intention whatsover of reaching a settlement with NML et al.
It is about time you stopped grasping at straws.
Just try and answer this: what and where and how are these “reserves” comprised of?
THAT is the problem!
@6 You are using logic. That does not exist in a country run by a bi-polar, ill-equipped for office, prima donna, with an obsession with a myth. She takes advice from her computer games playing, drug taking, school drop-out, unelected son and his mates. Logic does not come into it.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Kicillof was an economics teacher at a Buenos Aires failing University and is now charged with sorting out this mess. He claims to be able to hypnotise CFK - no doubt with his magic sideburns - and that is how he got the job. He has no practical experience whatsoever.
Add to that the conflicting messages coming out of various politicians in CFK's government, I think we can conclude that they are all running around like headless chickens.
Its that Pollack agrees to mediate with only Kicillof present because he knows that if the wonder boy and the vultures meet, Axel and his with his Karate/Elvis dancing mooves will kick Mr Singers ar%$ and all of Wall Street will come crashing down. As the Bolivian delagate said in the OAS meeting; Singer is the cause of starvation in Africa, the cause of aids, ruin and bankrupcy of states, climate change, WW I & WW II, Micheal Jacksons death, chickens injected with female hormones that make men fail in their manhoods, and a long etcetera
Jul 04th, 2014 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now if Singer falls........They will be a world revolution that embraces Nac and Pop Kirchnerism and America and Capitalism will fall overnight...
Amazing isn't, when you consider that a country ( UK ) can spend $US 10.2 billion on an aircraft carrier ( 64 million population ) and Argentina 40 million population cannot afford to pay its debt of $US 1.2 billion, one should ask where has all the money gone?
Jul 04th, 2014 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Um let me guess Swiss or other bank accounts perhaps! :-)
Jul 04th, 2014 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are terrified and know that they do not have any leg to stand on with regard to a position. They are only able to play the victim from afar to a crowd of under informed population. A face to face meeting requires a reasonable person to put solutions on the table. This will never happen. This is nothing more than a “show” and a pre curser to default with a corresponding excuse. The bank “reserves” as they are referred to, are papered IOUs to themselves. They don't have the money. Default is coming.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since the ICSID, Repsol, plus Paris Club was agreed to be paid in bonds It was obvious that there was no liqquid reserves left in thee BCRA
Jul 04th, 2014 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In total the next govt will be having to pay 20 Bn USS to service its debt in the next 4 years term
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2yyhgtk8eaz5nw/Nueva%20Deuda%20Kiciloviana.pdf
WTO gave green light to 42 countries to retaliate against 2012 Argentina's protectionism
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2yyhgtk8eaz5nw/Nueva%20Deuda%20Kiciloviana.pdf
The next gov't wont be able to trade itself out of the debt either...
The next govt is simply born banckrupt. I dont see any solution in the sort term.
It is in such bad form to be railing against the US Court System publicly. These idiots in charge in Argentina must be some of the most stupid people actually running a country.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They quickly getting classified with the likes of North Korea and Iran. They are not going to be able to recover from this politically in the USA.
They absolutely deserve what is coming to them. I hope it wakes up the masses in Argentina. I think starving and freezing for a decade is exactly what they need. Maybe then they'll elect a competent gov't.
The problem with them electing “a competent government” is that time has shown that the entire political class is corrupt or corruptable. They are stuck in a cycle that only an uprising would fix - and then they'd probably end up with a military dictatorship again.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first thing they need to do is rewrite the narrative on Peron. He was not a great leader - I assume he's lauded because they fail to distinguish between him and Eva. Even she wasn't competent - just fond of splashing cash on the poor.
@15 LOL! Fighting talk. I once gave a mixed review of Eva Peron on here and the rabble went crazy. It seems as if they cannot distinguish between myth and fact.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Evita's lobotomy made her more competent than Peron.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've long said this corrupted democracy has failed. I'd be happy with a Dictator taking them over and fixing everything. It really is the only solution I can see where they could change their path.
Its gotta be the right Dictator though one that really wants to see Argentina succeed in the Future. They should look to the example of Pinochet. He fixed Chile and put them on the path to success. It took a generation but that's a small price to pay to change a corrupted Society.
@17 the problem is that such dictator doesn´t exist. Not that we would ever look to the example of Pinochet, to us evil is evil, even when used for a good cause.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The trouble is that peple forget that the golden age of plenty under Evita was funded , to a large degree, by a significant amount of Nazi gold. The poepl have yet to relaise that there isn't any left so the state funding policies are always showing to show a massive gap between what they want to be able to afford and what they actually can...
Jul 04th, 2014 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Luis Suárez of international finance”
Jul 04th, 2014 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21606268-argentinas-debt-stand-reflects-teenage-attitude-rules-are-there-be-broken-luis
18. You can't see the forest for the trees. That's okay you get what you deserve. Someday the population will wake up or they'll slowly drift to living like a Bolivian or worse.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great article in DW:
The economic boom bought with the debt restructuring was neither used to launch a sound debt restructuring process, nor to develop infrastructure. The money was pumped into consumption, subsidies and social programs. This economic policy consisting of a mix of expropriation, price control, and a bizarre form of currency control that has pushed Argentina back toward crisis. Yet the government still insists that only the past debt is to blame.
http://www.dw.de/opinion-argentinas-risky-strategy/a-17756391
@21 I can see the forest for the trees, that´s why I believe what I believe. Only a terrorist or a genocide would advocate such extreme means that lead to atrocities.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am neither. What's your solution and please base it on your history not a fantasy with a hopin' and a wishin'
Jul 04th, 2014 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19 Wasn´t the Nazi gold an urban legend? As far as the people are concerned there are enough resources in our country for everyone to live as kings and the only reason we are FUBAR is because our politicians are idiots. They don´t care about details about not having any money left or debt or things like that.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 You aren´t a terrorist or a genocide but you have the same mindset... The solution is up to the politicians who have to do their job, specially the opposition who does nothing at all. It isn´t enough for them to play in the electoral charade, they need to do actual activism and try to take hold of trade unions and the media and try to take down the fiefdoms at the north. It would be nice for the people to do more activism, but the people aren´t going to do the job of our politicians, we have other jobs to do.
@23
Jul 04th, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the whole point is just to derail the whole process then blame someone else.
It's a Russian ploy as well...create a situation then give you the answer to it..normally at your cost.
Then look amazed when you say no or worse....
Don't they know when they have a busted flush?
Pinochet did not 'fix' Chile. His legacy of ruling by fear, and the mistrust lives on today. Politically people are polarised 50/50 over Pinochet's rule but 100% sure they don't want to live under a military dictatorship again.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The one decision Pinochet made that was in the interest of Chile was to introduce a free market economy. He kept politics, the economy and the military separate. You don't need a dictator to introduce a free market economy.
@26
Jul 04th, 2014 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not as if military dictatorship hasn't been tried in Argentina either.
@ 24 MagnusMaster
Jul 04th, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the only reason we are FUBAR is because our politicians are idiots”
Unfortunately they are not idiots, they only play the roles of idiots to fool spectators. In fact they form a kleptocracy, robbing you blind, while they steal with both hands and feet.
The responsible Cleary Gotlieb lawyers ought to put a muzzle on their clients. I find it hard to believe that these heavy hitting Wall St lawyers have not been able to keep their client from alienating the court. Arg must really be a recalcitrant client. Wonder how the CG lawyers have structured the payment of their fees....payments made in advance probably.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0p.s. A meditation ( many of which I have conducted and participated in) generally requires the parties to talk with (in the presence of) each other as well as the mediator. The chances of a successful outcome would be better if Arg didn't approach the process with such a venomous hard-on for its opponents. Isn't it the one asking for relief from a pending judgment, a judgment which will trigger a default and misery for the Argentine people (minus the vulture politicians who have robbed enough to live comfortably under any circumstances).
24. the people aren´t going to do the job of our politicians, we have other jobs to do.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Therein lies the problem, you've already absolved yourself from all responsibility and the reason you keep allowing Pols to be so corrupt
At least with the Dictator you'd not have to worry about anything.
Elaine, Of course nobody “wants” a Dictator but I don't see any other solution. See perfect example above.
The Rgs are not smart enough or care enough to have a Democracy.
I'm not saying it will happen I am saying it SHOULD happen.
@30. Probably the best thing for argieland would be for it to be invaded, conquered and occupied by someone like the United States. But then argieland should be handed over to Russia for 5 years. Under an agreement whereby it was ruled by Russian methods, but with US/UK oversight. After that argieland should be handed over to China for the next 5 years. Similar agreement. Finally, argies should be allowed to vote for China, Russia or democracy. And if they vote for China or Russia? Let them learn how China and Russia really rule. Then they could vote the way they're told to!
Jul 04th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@30 Maybe there is no solution - like the Middle East. Argentina will be the eternal feckless teenager of the world, ever more isolated and poor.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly, the new generation of voters are already too indoctrinated. Look at our resident TTT who believes beyond a doubt that the world is against Argentina when it is Argentina picking fights with the world and now having to deal with the consequences.
@27 Not just military dictatorship BUT military dictatorship with Chicago boys. It was so catastrophically bad that it makes CFK look good. In fact that was the crisis that demoted us to third-world status and began the whole debt issue to begin with.
Jul 04th, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28 yes, they ARE a kleptocracy, but even for a band of thieves they act so stupid you can't help but wonder that they are idiots. Or maybe they think they will live in the socialist paradise of Cuba with our money.
@30 what do you mean we won't have to worry about anything with a dictator? In any case, we would have more to worry about. Remember, no democracy, no such thing as human rights to stop them from doing anything they want. But then again, the people asking for a dictatorship always think it's only the bad guys who “dissappear”.
Democracy or not, ultimately the responsability is in the hands of a select few who do politics, the people can vote and talk but it is the politicians who decide. Politics is a full time job which not everyone can or is willing to do, if everyone did politics nothing would get done, this is the reason we have representative democracy instead of true democracy where we would have a Congress of say 40 million people. Maybe once the robots do our jobs we can do politics, until then the politicians decide.
Now the people can and should do activism, but it is the elected politicians who have the authority to decide, not the people. I would rather trust the current opposition, than a dictator like Pinochet.
FOLLOWING COULD BE THE SOLUTION TO END ARGENTINA'S NIGHTMARE DEFAULT
Jul 04th, 2014 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Under the review of Judge Griesa, Argentina and the Holdouts come together, to end this HORROR-Default, with endless suffering for tens of thousand holdout creditors and their families worldwide.
THE PROCESS COULD BE FOLLOWING:
The “RUFO” clause (Rights Upon Future Offers) expires as of December 2014. That means, that from 01/01/2015 Argentina can make a better offer to the Holdouts, than it made in 2005 and 2010.
Argentina and the holdouts make NOW A BINDING AGREEMENT with respect to the “time after” (end of the “Rights Upon Future Offers (RUFO) clause in December 2014), seizure risks and a technical Default would be immediately averted. Argentina could immediately return to the capital market and thus Argentina could refinance the payments to the holdouts, without using reserves.
In practice the negotiations between Argentina and the Holdouts could look like this:
Argentina enters into good-faith negotiations with the holdout creditors – all of them –via the offices of NML Capital. A firm deadline should be set to reach an agreement, say January 2, 2015, two days after the expiration date of the Rights Upon Future Offers clause.
HOW COULD BE THE CONDITIONS FOR THE REPAYMENT?
Argentina owes to today about 230% to the Holdouts (since 2002 Argentina has not repaid anything to the holdouts)
- at the latest, on 02/01/2015 (end of RUFO clause) Argentina would repay in CASH 100% of the nominal value of the defaulted bonds, which became due before 2015.
- For the accrued interest between 2002-2015 (until now about 130%), Argentina would emit new bonds with a maturity of 5-7 years.
@34
Jul 04th, 2014 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And when has Argentina ever honoured any agreement that they have made?
Why should the holdouts trust them now, grow up.WTO springs to mind.
34 HOFG
Jul 04th, 2014 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Same old propaganda - fake German bond-holder
@35
Jul 04th, 2014 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When? When the English honored their agreements... hahahaha.
Pilgrims stabbing the Indians in their back after being saved by them. And then making a national holiday out of such dissolute treachery.
@37
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can run but you can't hide Hispanic....quite ironic given the article
You have no right speaking about colonial history with your Spanish heritage...amigo....
Hypocrite until the end?
Me Spanish? thank goodness NOT.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Try again, ANGLO.
Well what are you Hispanic? Your heritage is defiantly from the mother country/continent?
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hypocrite
That's why your in Latam.
And yes I'm Anglo and proud.. That's why I sleep well at night...
Therefore if your stating I'm Anglo, you can't be, and given the countries which these forums effect more than likely make you white Hispanic...
Amigo....cousins of eu land as you put it.
So when Cortez was butchering Ameri-Indians for the sake of your ancestors, do you shed tears of sorrow or joy?
Anglo, I am Argentine and proud 100% pure non-European. I would have killed myself by now if I was a Euro.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@41
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
Sorry better start slitting your wrists now.
Espanyol is your mother language from your mother country.
All roads lead to Rome...or in your case Madrid...Hispanic....
Your no different from any of us.....With your half Spanish prez and half Croat foreign prez....
So don't preach your somehow a higher species from the rest of the world... Unless your grandfather was mengele.......
Hypocrite.
37 NOSTRIL CRY-baby
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not saying bad injustices did not happen. 200 years ago.
Not in our power to do anything about it.
Do you think that it is reason enough to commit crimes against populations TODAY ?
You have the power to control your own actions and abide by your own moral convictions, right now.
Why wouldn't you ?
Unless of course, you don't really want to behave correctly???
Hmmm, is that it?
@43
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0He probably won't reply buds.
He's having a mental breakdown working out what has been the linear truth/history since the 16th century...
Oh well.......
Comment removed by the editor.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0@45
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Doesn't matter what language it is. Is it European?.....Hispanic.........
If it was Quechua.....I'll give you a nod of acceptance....hypocrite.
You don't lose any genetic heritage because you can speak so many languages... Look at my previous post.... Your white Hispanic my old espanyol amigo.....ola?
Welcome home amigo.....I've missed you.....
Oh yes you do. If you are an Anglo but born in Argentina and only speak Spanish, then you are Argentine, no longer anglo.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are Spanish and your ancestors settled in USA, and today all your family only speaks English, then they are Anglo.
But an ANGLO-Argentine that moves to USA and speaks Spanish is Hispanic, and a HISPANIC (or Italian, or Black) American that moves to Argentina and speaks English is still and Anglo. Because and Anglo or a Hispanic is not in relation to Hispanic or Anglo genetics, but Hispanic culture or Anglo culture which is really Spanish or English proficiency and census count. Anglo-Hispanic would be the only exception that does not change unless the Hispanic was a former Anglo who now learned Spanish, or an Anglo who was a former Hispanic who now learned English, via Spanish, or viceversa.
Mugabe is Anglo, Tony Blair is Anglo, Bono is Anglo, Obama is Anglo, etc.
47. Wow that is messed up!
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are twisted but the funny thing is you think you are wise.
You do realized this is unibomber manifesto like posts.
So where is your magical bus going to take you on this vacation?
As I was riding the Plane Train through the Atlanta Airport yesterday I was thinking about when I had an Rg friend with me a few years ago and he was stunned at how large and amazing the airport was.
It is kinda fantastic though...
@47
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Twaddle give us an actual country definition of your wonk there.....
It's not defined on language it's defined on heritage you tool.... Hispanic.....
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
Don't make rules up as and when......amigo.......my old espanyol friend.....
Paella?.. Amigo?
@49
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly... so why don't you accept Mugabe as Anglo then?
@48
Not familiar with Atlanta so I cannot comment. Must be the highlight of that city since no one ever hears anything interesting from that place.
@50
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't you accept your self as a Hispanic? My question has lasted far longer than this one amigo?
When you answer this the. I'll answer your happily.
Paella? Rioja?
Because I am not HISPANIC. I am not European duh.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was lucky I'm not a Euro. Sorry about your fate.
@52
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Being argentine your are white Hispanic unless you can state otherwise.....
Sorry your fate is intertwined with us amigo.....
It's up to you......
Funny, its the largest city in a US state with a larger GDP than your country.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0You may have heard of Coca Cola...they're based there.
You're so jealous and sad
Did you see the article in Clarin today saying after the last devaluation your PPP is now down to the likes of Libya.
What do you think another devaluation is going to get you Guyana? Worse?
You are really a sheltered boi. Your ignorance knows no boundries. I would feel sorrow for you if you were not such a racist asshole. You are destined for an angry life.....that you earned and deserve.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0@54
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0And latams say the special relationship is spent......
I've got your back....
You three are three useless Anglos. From three countries in sharp decline with nothing you can do about it.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for GDP: Georgia : 396 billion
Argentina: 482 billion (this according to Clarin post-devaluation)
But remember that inflation is 35% a year so every month the dollar GDP grows automatically by 3%, so it should be close to 500 billion now again.
In any event, significantly larger than that stupid US state whose proudest achievement apparently is a SODA.
@52
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, I'm struggling a bit with this new linguistic theory of genetics. You say, Once you speak three or more languages you lose the racial genetics of Anglo, Hispanic, etc.
I also understand, from your own incessant boasting that you speak Spanish, English, German and French (albeit the latter two badly).
So my question is, if you speak four European languages, does that mean you have lost European racial genetics, or just reinforced them? If I learn Chinese now, will that m
I think your information is way out of that.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can speak Spanish perfectly, English quasi-perfectly, German, French, and Portuguese proficiently, Italian rusty, Chinese, Russian under construction.
I make that seven European languages versus one Asian.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0According to the linguistic theory of genetics, does that make you european? If I learn Chinese now, will that make me a Chinaman? How many new words will I have to learn a day to be less of a gaijin?
Excuse you, why do you ask me? Ask the US government, they have set up those laws for “Hispanic”. Ask the INADI on the argie side for Anglo.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Celia Cruz is (was) Hispanic.
The Queen of the Netherlands is Hispanic.
Usain Bolt is Anglo.
Ian Thorpe is Anglo.
@61
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm asking you because you are, as far as I know, the originator and sole exponent of the Linguistic Theory of Genetics,which you sprung on the world in post 45 (“ Once you speak three or more languages you lose the racial genetics of Anglo, Hispanic, etc.”).
I truly confess I am having some difficulty getting my head rouns this one, and that's why I'm asking the simple question. If you speak seven European languages, does that mean you're still genetically European?
My kid brother speaks , French, German, Hebrew, Arabic, Swedish, Danish, Mandarin, oh yeah and English, fluently.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0He hasn't studied a single one, he just worked or lived in those countries, he's one of those lucky bastards that has a gift, his happens to be languages.
He is Swedish citizen now and happily works has a school caretaker.
So he's a lot like tithead, except for two things.
He's happy and he's employed!!!!
It makes me a mutt, which means non-European. Argentines are mutts. So I'm Argentine. And thus I'm non-European, as non-European equals Argentine.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dumb little troll from mendoza......Argentina's GDP is larger than a few US states. But not all. Than again. You are comparing a renegade nation to a state....lol. Massachusetts 2013 GDP was 425 billion and we are a tiny state.......your poppa needs to stop sexually abusing your mouth it is twisting your brain you racist little piece of human waste.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@64
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0I see. So it's got nothing to do with language aftervall. And there goes the Linguistic Theory of Genetics, one of the shortest-lived theories I have encountered so far.
But now we've established that language has nothing to with genetics, I'm wondering just where that leaves your contention in post 52 (and elsewhere) that you are in no way euro and extremely proud of it. Care to explain?
@66
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your personal Gods the USA will continue using it, as will INADI, no matter what you say about it. Hispanics are genetically so because they speak Spanish, and Anglos because they speak English.
@65
I can compare Buenos Aires province with any nation whose GDP is less than 150 billion, which in fact is more than half the nations of the world... so??
@64
Don't worry about my employment.
Who's worried?
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt, when a position arises in Mendosa requiring a megalomanic, narcissistic, virgin, your CV will do the job nicely!
@67
Jul 05th, 2014 - 05:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think we can agree that you're culturally Argentine (or is it Argenteen?). No doubt about that.
But I'm still all confused about genetics and the Linguistic Theory thereof. In @64 genetics was nothing to do with language, and now in @66 suddenly it is again. Apparently its the Spanish language that makes Hispanics Spanish, but seemingly this rule doesn't reply to Argenteens. At least not the linguistically gifted Argenteen such as yourself, who only have seven eigths european geneto-linguistic heritage, if I've understood the theory correctly so far.
But what if it's a monolingual Spanish speaking Argenteen? Is that just a transplanted Spaniard? My poor Anglo head is spinning.
You do know what genetics actually means, don't you?
LOL !!!
Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0*rolls eyes *
poor Nostrils
:-/
@69 :)
Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, dear. Did TTT go off to harm himself after realising he is Anglo? And he was making such progress, from denying there were any problems at all in Argentina to accepting that the country is on the brink of another collapse.
@71
Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0You'll probably find out he is some where...after all those white Hispanics did get about with some mischievous colonising in their heyday, and the repercussions thereof.
The rule don't apply to nostrils even though he's the one putting them down.
Stuff him like I've said to him before he's not a native Ameri-Indian so how can he stand and preach from the pulpit when he is at the end of the day one of the amigos/cousins in a new far flung land of opportunity?
Love it...
TTT is a very confused, angry and lonely young man. He is stuck in the teenage 'Goth' mode of hating the world and everyone in it. You should have some sympathy, if he had been born in a society where he had some prospect of improvement he would probably have thrived with his sociopathic tendencies. Instead, he is intelligent enough to know that his life now, trapped in a bedroom at his mother's house, is as good as it is going to get. I'd be pretty angry about that. The difference is that the anger would spur me into changing my life whereas TTT's genetics mean he is just going to sit, moan about it and blame the world.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@73
Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0How cruel being born white Hispanic....what are the chances......but I agree with you. Ultimately it's down to the populace to affect Change not the state. The state are our servants not the other way round.
Someday he might understand....in the meanwhile.....
@74 “How cruel being born white Hispanic” Not quite what I meant so I hope you were being ironic. :)
Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think he is predisposed and culturally inclined to complain rather than effect change.
The cruel part of the Toby et al plight is there is no hope in Argentina. If you aren't part of the very rich or political class you WILL be poorer and dumber than your parents. It has happened for at least 3 generations and it will continue to happen unless the population rises up. Based on comments here I don't see that happening.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are the ONLY country in the world that is moving DOWN the GDP by country scale over the last 75 yrs. They are almost at the bottom of every scale that measures transparency, rule of law, ease of doing business, corruption, etc The bottom.
I know people think it is cruel for me to say they have created an idiocracy but they have and I don't see how it changes.
@75
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I was :-)
@76 totally agree with you
@76 I don't think it is cruel. Like a recalcitrant teenager, they need to hear the truth. It does sink in as we have seen with TTT's changing stance. The Argentina population has been exploited in the extreme by their own politicians. They proudly live outside the law and thus do not have the protection of the law.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is cruel that they do not and will never know hope. The fist time I took an Rg friend to Chile, his first comment is they all look so happy. People in Argentina are angry and bereft of hope which is why they act the way they do. If there is nothing to look forward to but a lifestyle that is worse than how you grew up why would you bother trying?
Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The best thing anyone with brains and or ambition can do is flee as soon as possible.
I spend a lot of time in Chile and I have not noticed that they all look so happy. Chileans love a good moan about everything. In that they are very like the English. :) But I think we can agree that there is a marked different about Santiago when you arrive from Buenos Aires. The city is cleaner and more cared for. (Aside from the air pollution that is a geographic problem). A huge amount of money has been invested in infrastructure of the last decade.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ironically, most Chileans are unaware of how much better off they are than Argentineans. They seem unaware that the pendulum has swung and they are more wealthy and with a better standard of living now.
We were in Santiago walking down the street when he made the comment. He was also amazed that people were lined up to pay their taxes. Not sure why that was going on then but they had all thee mobile sites where people could go.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at the cybernetic lovers Elaine and Yankeeboy, leaving the motel room open and screaming out loud so that “argies” can hear. It's them imagining argie reactions to their badinage that gets them close to climax.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please, at least put a beach towel on the door, no one wants to see this!
82. Yip yip yip the puppy is back biting at my heels. Annoying little puppy go play with your squeak toy the grown ups are talking.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You weren't visiting Tanti in Cordoba were you puppy?
What? My vacation is in 6 months.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And this time I may actually go to Bariloche and Esquel. I will see Switzerland and Wales without having a passport stamped. On the way I may explore the booming Rio Negro wineries, at Villa Regina, which is like Italy without leaving my country.
So three countries potentially!
@82. Bless you, it is called a conversation between two adults. Not always agreeing but always polite.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now, do go on with your fascinating theory of language dictating genetics. I am enjoying the comedy.
IT IS THE US GOVERNMENT alongside Argentina that clearly states that if you are a Swedish/Norwegian born in Venezuela, you are HISPANIC.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you are a Turkish/Jewish born in Ohio, you are ANGLO.
Why don't you all ask the US government about it instead of insisting it is just ME?
84. I love the natural scenery of Bariloche, too bad you can't really avoid looking at the graffiti on the boulders.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The town is nothing like Europe, it is tiny and poor. They were almost wiped out when the volcano exploded and nobody could visit. It takes a long time to recover from that.
It would be nice if you could see Llao Llao, where I used to stay but they don't allow Argentinians there unless they are staying. Which is very very very very few. That's the first place I saw Rgs kicked out by the security from a nice Hotel. They didn't even allow them to get out of the car.
If you can go to the “Swiss village” ( its not but that's what they call it) and have asado on Sunday. It is amazing! Although again you probably can't afford it. Maybe you can meet a man to take you.
@86 So you take instruction from the US government?
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just happen to agree with them there.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IF YOU don't agree with it, go ask them. But you only seem to disagree with it because I say so. If not, you would be OK with it because the US gov thinks so too.
Either you are a feckless sycophant of the US, like most British are quite frankly, or you place far greater value on my statements and beliefs.
Either or, not too good.
I think Toby is confusing race and ethnicity.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.ohr.gatech.edu/race%20definitions
BTW I don't see Anglo anywhere in this list.
Nor A Euian
yip yip
@86
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm only asking you because you're the only one present, I believe, who understands the theory, because I am finding it even more difficult to get a hold of than Quantum Malvinistics, and that's hard enough already.
So what I understand now, is that it's not what you speak that determines what your genetics are, it's where you're born. So, for, example, if I'd been born in Shanghai that would make me, genetically, a Chinaman? I cam imagine that might have caused some raised eyebrows between my parents.
And what about this Turk of yours? What if he was born in the US but adopted by Chineses? Or maybe he works in a Hispanic car wash? Or maybe he's married to a French Canadian and speaks Québécois all day long? What kind of Anglo is he now? Is that one like Mugabe, one like Arnold Schwarzenegger, one like Gloria Estefan, or one like George H W Bush?
@90
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So Hispanic is an ethnicity an Anglo isn't? Hahahaha you Americans are more self-deluded than I Thought.
Anglo is a race actually. Whether it is on US lists o not is utterly irrelevant.
Except its not.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's like you're calling a horse a rock.
There's no logical way to argue with an idiot.
Take some of the advice from the many posts showing you where you are wrong if you actually want to learn something instead of looking like a complete moron all the time
Those who aren't already baffled by the science of Argienetics might be pleased to know that Professor Kicillof will be along shortly to explain Argienomics.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@94 Has he gone to get his puppets and crayons to explain it to the Argentines?
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@95
Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those, and somebody else's wallet. But that's OK, because an Argenteen once got mugged somewhere, and anyway all their mates say it's OK too. Or something.
Elaine Hans and Yankeeboy
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I really think the more effective way to deal with Nostrils, is to openly sarcastically agree with each of his points so that he stops trying to argue them.
In his case, I like to add gross personal insults also.
That usually serves to make him froth and fume and make pointless racial slurs, exposing him for what he is.
Your strategy begets the same reaction, but you are having to expend too much energy responding and it only feeds his ego to keep conversing.
Just my opinion of course.
I have to say though , that I really enjoy the insights from Elaine as she refutes Nostrils rambling.
Yankeeboy's revealing exposé of boastful Nostril's travel destination was very entertaining. :-)
I would not be so vindictive, but as a vocal RACIST, Nostrils deserves everything he gets.
I know it really hurts him to be called “Nostrils” by the people he ultimately wants approval from, so I make it a point to do so.
I have just read this whole thread in one go, whilst also watching the Argentina - Belgium game :-)
Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only conclusion I can draw is that by Trolley-boy posting on here he is indulging in some form of narcissistic self-harm.
No wonder Argentina has the highest number of psychoanalysts per capita in the world.
I hope he is not representative of Argentweens in general?
As a Brit who splits my time between London and Venezuela, has family, houses, business interests in both, and is equally comfortable in both cultures, am I an Anglo, Hispanic or a member of Nostril's ubermensh?
Feeling confused.....
PS: not all of my family, close and extended, have the same colour skin, most are only proficient in one language.
Hope that helps......
Feeling very confused by this new theory/definition. Should I be having an identity crisis?
Help me Trolley-boy, bag up my shopping, tell me who I am and I might give you a small 'propino'......
@97 It is not entirely wasted energy. Over the time I have been 'debating' with TTT his position has moved considerably. It takes time but he is starting to realise the enormity of the trouble his country is in and how it will effect him personally. (Which has far more impact for him).
Jul 05th, 2014 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@98 Undoubtedly TTT has more than the usual teenage belligerence and self-love. He is such a conflicted character her would keep a team of psychoanalysts in employment.
@97
Jul 05th, 2014 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Personally, I believe that one day Toby will realise that the appropriate response to criticism isn't necessarily to load the blunderbuss with whatever irrelevant absurdities are close to hand.
Toby!
Jul 05th, 2014 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who am I ?????
What am I ?????
Lol!
100. Every La Camporista on the board does that to some extent. Think is just as bad but he's a little older and puts a little dab of half truth in that to try to throw people off.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 099 ElaineB
Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”@97 It is not entirely wasted energy. Over the time I have been 'debating' with TTT his position has moved considerably. It takes time but he is starting to realise the enormity of the trouble his country is in and how it will effect him personally. (Which has far more impact for him).“
If you mean moving from confident arrogance to depression and denial, I agree.
However, you have a point.
Certainly, the 'Anglo' posters on here and his home-grown (”Hispanic”, but bi-lingual Argentine??) posters like CD2, must dispelled many of the myths and government 'untruths' that he had swallowed and believed in.
I'm not sure if he wouldn't have arrived there anyway, but he is grasping at straws now, in full denial.
We know that he is “trolling/trawling” Wiki, RT, Guardian, and Huff looking for grist for the mill, his conspiracy theories, and any racial undertones.
He'll interpret as he pleases.
However, I suppose one can keep correcting him.
When I was 15 I spent a few months in Singapore, the crossroads of Asia. Has this affected my linguo-genetic-ethnicity?
Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps that might balance out the crazy weekend I enjoyed in Berlin last year, or the very pleasant two weeks in California back in 1999....
Trolley-boy, please resolve my identity crisis!
Lol!
He's mad as a box of frogs!
Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or a bag of snakes!
Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol!
Let's see if I've understood
Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First)
According to Troll, Mugabe is Anglo because he speaks English and/or the US government says so....
even though English may not be his native language and the US government hasn't defined what is an Anglo.
Troll is not Hispanic because he says so....
even though he is a native Spanish speaker and the US government has defined Hispanic and their definition includes Argentines.
Second)
According to Troll, a US resident can't be Hispanic if s/he doesn't speak Spanish...
Even though:
S/he has Spanish/LatAm ancestry
Language is irrelevant to the US government's classification
Ethnic Identity is a matter of self identification.
My head is spinning! Full on identity crisis! Heehee!
Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Trolley-boy, am allowed, under your system to self-identify? More pertinently, will you self-implode if I do so?
Haha! What larks!
Anyhoo. .. I thought this thread was about Argentine Debt Squealers?
Any news yet?
Any songs?
Lol!
Jesus, can't wait till Monday, they say time flies but seems to be dragging this weekend. I shall have to play golf tomorrow then to take my mind off this debacle. Do you guys think that any high level Government officials will turn up to the negociations? Do you think they will hang around when Singer enters the room? Or will they run away as they did when they were going to be confronted by the FALKLANDERS.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Probably run away. Historically, there has been a pattern of this behaviour. Lots of shouting. Then reality kicks in and they scuttle.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Such an interesting thread and let's face it, much more interesting than Kicillof talking about Argentina's failure to do anything in New York again.
Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nostrils isn't a teenager. He's about 24:
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/11/28/north-west-england-trade-mission-scheduled-to-visit-chile-argentina-and-brazil#comment289860
As for Hispanic. This is what is frustrating his autistic mind these days because he is confusing an ethnic identifier with a racial identifier.
The United States District Court decided a similar issue regarding the definition of Hispanic in United States of America v. Crispited Ortiz, et al. The court wrote:
“Are Hispanics a distinctive group and if so, how is an Hispanic defined? Both expert witnesses agreed that Hispanics are not a race....The government's expert Preston testified that since 1970 the principal means of identifying the Hispanic population has been self-identification.... Moreover, Preston reported that the background of Hispanics in this country is quite varied apart from some use of the Spanish language, at least in the past. Defendant's expert Ericksen similarly explained that whether or not a person is an Hispanic is not a biological characteristic but a psychological characteristic as to how one identifies himself or herself. It is not simply whether one has some Spanish ancestry or whether one speaks Spanish as a first language.... Some last names of persons who may consider themselves Hispanic may not be or may not appear to be of Spanish derivation... Suffice it to say that whether a person is Hispanic in the final analysis depends on whether that person considers himself or herself Hispanic.”
As far as I'm aware the term is used only in the US. If Nostrils doesn't want to identify as Hispanic then that is his right. However racially he is European. For someone who is so good at languages, he has been unable to twist and turn out of that. Argentines are not a race.
111 “Anglo”-tino
Jul 06th, 2014 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0”Suffice it to say that whether a person is Hispanic in the final analysis depends on whether that person considers himself or herself Hispanic.”
In that case then, much like Snotty-Nostril, I shall identify myself as AmerIndian.
BTW, Snotty, I am self-determining that I would like my land back from Argentina.
@109 Singer won't be there, the gov't will meet with Pollack. I don't think Pollack would have been hired had the gov't wanted to talk directly with Singer.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0How about that game???
Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure Yankeeboy kicked a hole in his TV when Argentina scored??
Ain't nothing going to happen with the debt till after the worldcup.
Singer the snake can wait.
#107
Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0“even though he is a native Spanish speaker and the US government has defined Hispanic and their definition includes Argentines.”
Wait... so now you ANGLOS are AGREEING WITH ME. The US government says that speaking Spanish makes you a Hispanic.
So why are you all arguing with me if you all AGREE???
Unless you are all ashamed of being Anglo.
@115
Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0No they don't, it's having a cultural and or racial heritage relating to Spain which as a white Hispanic you obviously know.
There is no definition of Anglo according to you that would stand up. Unless you just speak English or Chinese...or Urdu.....have I got this right? I can't remember your argument is not particularly solid. Did you come up with whilst drinking your European derived vino?
Mugabe an Anglo? Try telling him that.
Your ashamed of your conquistador heritage. You old eu colonist you....amigo...
Denial is the first stage of the process therapy.
Whilst I can sleep easily at night thank you.
@114
Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes that is precisely what this is about. Argentina putting football above everything else, no wonder they are a pariah state and bankrupt. I can just see the Argie government officials faces if Singer just happened to walk in on the meeting. That would be hilarious, I would love to see that happen.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Jul 06th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nostril's a European colonialist by heritage!
And he still can't tell me who I am based on his own bullshit theory!
What a joke!
114. I am American, not an immigrant and I'm not poor so I don't care anything about the World Cup.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0World Cup will be over soon. How will Krass-tina distract from the default then?
Jul 06th, 2014 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tick Tock!
Good to see TTT complying with rules laid down by the US. He must be the only one in Argentina.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Shame he doesn't actually understand the criteria or what it applies to.
World Cup will be over soon. How will Krass-tina distract from the default then?
Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well we better make the most of it and this just shows Argentines optimism (Glass is 1/2 full).
It also shows Argentines are less concerned about money as the key to happiness. (Unlike Singer the snake).
“114. I am American, not an immigrant and I'm not poor so I don't care anything about the World Cup. ” Yep, you go back to watching Baseball in your double wide trailer and eat your grits.
@121
Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok finally you all just acquiesce on being part of the Anglo race.
122. Argentinians would give their left nut to live in a double wide in the USA.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW I love grits!!
Money may not bring happiness but it doesn't make you sad either.
It does allow you to eat and be warm...so good luck with that if you default.
Brr
@122 Absolutely right, money is not the key to happiness. But it is hard to eat and keep warm without it. Money gives you opportunities and choices. Not all people with money love it, they love the freedom it gives them. That is something quite different.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting how you are making Singer into some kind of Bond villain. CFK is the real villain in this scenario, the rest is just contract law and business.
@123 What. Are, You. On? I and pretty much everyone else on this thread do not agree with your weird definitions of race and ethnicity. But I like that you turn to a superpower to attempt to validate your nonsense, you isolationist, you.
You all just agreed with me, that I am Hispanic, because I speak Spanish.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hans Niesund and you were derogatorily using the expression “theory of linguistic genetics”, to call me an intellectual retard yet 10 messages you all but agree with the theory, which is supported by the US government.
Race and ethnicity are THE SAME YOU IMBECILES! Have you all ever actually studied genetics? At the genetic level there is no such thing as race or ethnicity, because such terms would imply some clear-cut genetic marker/divide. The human species is proven to be a very fine spectrum with no such sharp divisions.
So if you believe that speaking a certain language changes your ethnicity (and I already placed the example of an ANGLO-argentine whose offspring in Argentina in the 1920s learned Spanish as a first language then going to the US A and being Hispanic, or of Spanish migrants in the USA whose children learned English, then coming to Mendoza to grow wine and being Anglo), if you all agree with this ethnicity change based on language acquisition (ethnicity is a genetic marker), then by extension so you also believe learning a language changes your race.
Ethnicity and race in genetics are the same side of the coin, you can't scientifically demonstrate with genes where ethnicity ends and race begins.
So you all agree with me. Learning your first language determines your race (by extension also ethnicity).
Trolley if you are not Hispanic, what are you?
Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And does it change when you learn another language?
You have European heritage don't you?
Hope you have found your meds.........
NOSTRILS
Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0YOU are the ONLY one who believes “learning a language changes your race”.
When will you learn sarcasm?
TTT, you are using that herd mentality you are inculcated with. We didn't ALL agree with you. You cherry-pick one comment that you BELIEVE agrees with you and then apply it to everyone. Herd mentality. It is all part of the nationalist brainwashing so you can't help it.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is like when someone criticises CFK and you take it as a personal insult against you and the whole of Argentina. Same mentality. Your life would be less stressful if you could use a little objectivity.
@129 ElaineB
Jul 06th, 2014 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0very nicely put.
126
Jul 06th, 2014 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would you call Obama an Anglo....or an African American....?
@126
Jul 06th, 2014 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because you speak Spanish doesn't make you Hispanic, we've already covered this, it's if you have a racial or cultural heritage to Spain or Portugal, which you as a white Hispanic you do.......
My mother in law is Quechuan, she speaks Spanish but wouldn't consider herself Hispanic because her racial and cultural heritage is Incan.
Speaking Russian doesn't make you Russian you halfwit.
The crux isn't the fact your white Hispanic it's the fact your ashamed to admit it, to admit that as having this heritage you've committed atrocities for the sake of the eu based mother country......amigo...
And that's why your a hypocrite, and that's why I've been getting you to bite over this in the past few days.
Your no different than the people you attack for being “Anglo” what ever that is.....if it's for speaking English like you say and being trolled by Anglos then your defiantly Anglo....so welcome aboard!
Awful lot of food processors going out of business in Argentina. It reminds me of Venezuelans not having any fuel.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They say they won't starve but I am not too sure about that. Every business requires fuel. Who would get it if there's not any imported? The business or the public...hmmm.
@131
Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He has already stated that he considers Obama to be an 'anglo'. And also Mugabe too!
134
Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh...Celtic (Irish)...maternal side
...African paternal side...
....neither Anglo origin.
Toby... just what IS your definition of an Anglo....?
@126
Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby, let me help you. Race, ethnicity, culture and language are all different concepts which are frequently but not necessarily correlated. Correlation, of course, is not the same as causation, as most schoolchildren are taught, so no one of the four concepts determines the others. It just so happens they often overlap.
I'm surprised you haven't managed to grasp this, what with your cosmic intellect at all,, but I guess that your evident confusion is understandable if you are a member of a society that is for the most part racially, ethnically, culturally, and linguistically homogenous, and you don't get out much.
TTT is at work, apparently. He doesn't have a day off until the 9th when he will be unveiling his website dedicated to me: not creepy at all.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@135
Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't understand his concept/definition of 'anglo' either. He did try to explain once. It all got rather convoluted and confusing. Something about Anglos coming from Africa and homo-sapiens and other people/races being descendants of neanderthals and being superior, or purer or something. Can't remember if that bit involved Africa or not. Anyway, he claimed he was not of the same genetics as Europeans or Africans or Anglos which are both of the first two of course.
No, I don't have a clue what he was on about either!
Basically it was a lot of made up crap that he invented in order to claim some sort of superiority over every one else posting here.
I think he was off his meds that day.
@136
Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It certainly is creepy, and entirely significant that out of all the possible targets on here, he'd pick on a woman and one that's shown him some sympathy in the past.
At this rate, he might even grow up to be Think.
@139 Yes, they both despise women. TTT has been blatant about his hatred of ALL women - including and especially his own mother. That probably explains a lot.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@141
Jul 06th, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's a shame, because he has enough positive qualities that he could actually make something of himself if he could only develop a modicum of self-awareness.
@141 He should cut the cord and leave home, it is obviously not a good environment. He should go and volunteer in the villa miserias around Buenos Aires. Though I am not sure he would survive.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He needs Jack Nicholson and Otis Young to take him to jail
Jul 06th, 2014 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Detail
If he is really 24 and this psychotic he is doomed. He'll never be right and be able to be part of society. I hope it is all an act otherwise beware of the bell towers in Mendoza.
Jul 06th, 2014 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Troll 115 Wait... so now you ANGLOS are AGREEING WITH ME. The US government says that speaking Spanish makes you a Hispanic.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where in post 107 do I say this? Since I've said language spoken is irrelevant to the US's definition of Hispanic.
-----------------------------------------
Ekeko post 51 Why don't you accept your self as a Hispanic?
Troll post 52 Because I am not HISPANIC.
Troll post 126 You all just agreed with me, that I am Hispanic, because I speak Spanish.
And yes we do agree you are Hispanic, because of your connection to Spanish America, regardless of what language you speak.
Hahaha, I have to give it to you all this one time, far from being so putrid, acrimonious, and racist, this time your responses where actually cogent, thought out, and quite amusing. I guffawed in a pair of instances.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I will rarely say this, but those were good responses.
146 Nostrils
Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0and we are SO relieved to know that.
Whew!
Let's get back to educating Anglos shall we:
Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0@145
The US definition of Hispanic is irrelevant to speaking the language? Then WTF is it related to? This gets more bizarre and outlandish by the post.
“My connection to Spanish America”... based on what exactly?
So is it the fact that I am gravitationally attatched to a landmass where Spanish is spoke that I am Hispanic?
Well, it's the same for ANGLO you dim!! You are clearly from the ANGLOSPHERE, something we are taught in 6th grade in Argentina.
There is one continent, physically, called AMERICA. We are all Americans they tell us (but I really don't care about this one).
America however is divided into three zones: South America up to Panama, Central America up to Mexico, and North America up to Greenland.
North America is “America ANGLOSAJONA”... because duh, they speak English there.
You are thus an “anglosajon” as taught in any decent geography book. That is shortened to an Anglo.
Further, as part of the “Anglosphere” so are people from Trinidad and Tobago, Guyana, Belize, and the Bahamas. Beyond that, all areas of English language speakers are Anglo. Ireland, Zimbabwe, and a few others.
You are anglo and you from the same cultural ethnicity as Michael Jordan. Simple as that.
LOL you are so funny.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you even talking about race, at all?
What does that have to do with morality and responsibility?
Unless of course, you are feeling inferior to someone, for some reason?
Could it be a 'Cultural' problem?
It has nothing to do with morality and responsibility, which means you as an Anglo have absolutely no rights to pontificate to others about it.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0To recapitulate the Anglo view on race/ethnicity: according to them, a Brazilian, a Haitian-Creole, and a Guyanan are all “Hispanic”, but Michael Jordan, Bono, and Tony Blair aren't anglo (only Tony Blair would be).
Lets sum up even further the Anglo system of races/ethnicities, without words:
http://cdn2.pulptastic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/271.jpg
Well, that clears it all up: Anglo education, worthless.
150 Snotty Nostrils
Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0So far, you have failed to define “Anglo”.
Anglo- what??
The term is incomplete - the word is a modifier only.
Give us a clear definition out of the murk.
I have said a trillion times... if you are a former British colony, and have a large number of English descent people, and today your culture is partially or largerly shaped by Britain, and you speak English, you are an Anglo.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I fail to see what part of that is so hard to understand.
If I go to the Bahamas, what am I supposed to say? “shit, look at the language and laws, and customs, they even drive on the left here... so it must be Italian”
OF COURSE NOT! It will remind me of British.
The Bahamians are Anglo.
152 Snotty Nostrils
Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I have said a trillion times... if you are a former British colony, and have a large number of English descent people, and today your culture is partially or largerly shaped by Britain,”
...so Argentina's culture is largely shaped by Spain, then??
And Snotty is largely a product of Argentina's culture.
Ok, I see.
Not RACE then, but culture.
I don't think that's what you said before...
How is Argentine culture “largely” shaped by Spain??
Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do we do bullfights?
Do we eat paellas?
Argentina was not shaped by any one culture dominantly.
At best you could say it was shaped by three equal sources: Spanish, Italian, and a combination of German/Native American/British-Celtic.
That is unfortunate given my dim view of Europeans in general but it is a fact.
But I am not European so at least I can be thankful for that privilege.
How can you not be “largely” European, if your culture was “largely-shaped ”
Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0by Europeans??
You are contradicting yourself !
LOL !!!
Not at all. I don't lie, take other's land, be a hypocrite, commit genocide, think of myself as genetically superior, and I shower 11 times as often as 1 a week.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0So given the above I can't be European.
156 Snotty
Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0By your own definition @152, your culture is “partially or largely-shaped” by your colonisers
“I have said a trillion times... if you are a former British colony, and have a large number of English descent people, and today your culture is partially or largerly shaped by Britain,”
Let's substitute a word or two that would apply to Argentina.
“ I have said a trillion times... if you are a former Spanish colony, and have a large number of Spanish descent people, and today your culture is partially or PARTIALLY OR LARGELY shaped by Spain ”
Hmm, fits Argentina perfectly - your culture reflects that of your colonisers, Spain, as evidenced by you being Hispanophones.
Or is that “HISPANIC”??
You have painted yourself into a corner with your contradictory and circular argument. :-D
You have out-smarted yourself!!
LOL !!
You are inept. Goodnight.
@148
Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Well, it's the same for ANGLO you dim!! You are clearly from the ANGLOSPHERE, something we are taught in 6th grade in Argentina.”
So that explains it. The Argenteen educational system. Say no more. I suspected as much.
Is there anyone TTT does not hate? All foreigners. All women. All Argentines because they are 'largely shaped by European heritage'. He really only hates himself.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is any of the above relevant to the story above, it does not matter on an anonomous internet web page where you come from or what you are called. I still would like to see Killitovs face if he came face to face with SINGER at the negociating table.LOL
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0150
Jul 07th, 2014 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0.....”To recapitulate the Anglo view on race/ethnicity: according to them, a Brazilian, a Haitian-Creole, and a Guyanan are all “Hispanic”, but Michael Jordan, Bono, and Tony Blair aren't anglo (only Tony Blair would be).
.....Blair was born in Scotland....
@160 golfcronie
Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The majority of comments that our resident troll posts have little bearing on the main topic.
@37. NOTHING, repeat NOTHING that you “think”, “say” or “type” has ANY relevance or importance. Most people that come into any sort of contact with you would be best advised to smash a baseball bat across your mouth and follow that up by breaking every one of your fingers, then your wrist and then your elbows. Depending on how disgusted they feel at your life, some might also go for breaking your toes, ankles and knees. I don't have a problem with this. See what he says @84. He's “proud” of being a bit of slimy scum. But he has no problem pretending to be “European” when it suits him. A “new” requirement. Produce valid birth certificate and x years of incomr tax records as well. Not satisfactory? Burn the passport and have troops escort the animal to the coast where it can start swimming. Suitable armed forces guidance. Out into the North Atlantic. Not dead in 2 months? Bomb it!
Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's just take a close look at the arse. It's where he wants us to look in the hope of getting poked
I can say “Dos cervesa, por favor”. Does that make me Hispanic? It doesn't. It makes me polite. It makes me considerate of uneducated faggots who can't understand a proper language. Who could fail to understand “Two beers, please”? And, if they can't understand, just shove a blade into their guts and wiggle it around. Hispanics and latinos are two a penny. Unnecessary!
Well... well... well...
Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One fundamental difference between them “Anglos” and us “Latinos” can clearly be seen in this thread.....
Most Anglos in here seem to have humongous amounts of time to engage in the most turnipy exchanges with a self proclaimed smart Argie Troll as Mr. “The TroLLing_Stone”.....
You don't, however, see any of us Argies reacting, responding (or even reading) the deranged turnipidities from, for example, Anglo Mr. “Conqueror”........
A crystal clear difference, indeed..........
So you are an Argentine now voice. You should have said something you could have bought me a coffee and croissant when I was strolling along Callao, you are wealthy than I as I recall you inferring to me one time. Unless....you, like the other RG's are not in Argentina......cannot really blame you.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0164 Think
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.....“us “Latinos” ...?
I'm confused...Mr. Think.... I thought you were from Northern Europe.....
....the ”us Argies” I can understand....but Latinos....
The meeting is over. I think wannabe Elvis is finding that screaming, banging on the table only leads to his tears.
Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess we aren't playing fair.
Bahahahaha
(166) The Voice
Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's why I wrote “Latinos” in-between quotation marks, my dear Voice........
Racial identity can easily be a state of mind...
Genetics, on the other hand..............
Did Argentina really buy subway trains that were too big for their tunnels?
Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would pee myself laughing if that rumor ends up being true!!
Anyone hear news about YPF and Shale? I haven't heard a peep since they paid off Repsol. Not a peep.
Troll
Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's educate you
“The US definition of Hispanic is irrelevant to speaking the language? Then WTF is it related to? This gets more bizarre and outlandish by the post.”
Birth in or ancestry from countries that were Spanish. In the US people can identify as Hispanic through ancestry, if they wish, even if they don't speak Spanish.
“My connection to Spanish America”... based on what exactly?“
Argentina, or northern Argentina to be exact, was Spanish.
”So is it the fact that I am gravitationally attached to a landmass where Spanish is spoke that I am Hispanic?”
So you finally decide you’re Hispanic? First you said you weren't then you said you were.
Those landmasses have natives who don't speak Spanish. If they move to the US, they can identify as Hispanic even if they don't speak Spanish.
“ Well, it's the same for ANGLO you dim!! You are clearly from the ANGLOSPHERE, something we are taught in 6th grade in Argentina.”
“North America is “America ANGLOSAJONA”... because duh, they speak English there.”
“Further, as part of the “Anglosphere” so are people from Trinidad and Tobago, Guyana, Belize, and the Bahamas. Beyond that, all areas of English language speakers are Anglo. Ireland, Zimbabwe, and a few others. “
Both the Anglosphere and North America include native people who don't speak English. eg Quebec, Greenland, Zimbabwe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere
” You are anglo and you from the same cultural ethnicity as Michael Jordan. Simple as that.”
If Anglo and Hispanic are territorial concepts, as Hispanic is in the US, then they include people who don't speak English or Spanish. If they are solely linguistic concepts, then they exclude people who don't speak English or Spanish, even if they are from former British or Spanish territories. If they are linguistic concepts do they include second language speakers such as Mugabe, or only native speakers?
None of us would consider a Brazilian, a Haitian-Creole, and a Guyanan Hispanic
“Troll, let's educate you”, says Anglo/Peruvian Mr. Dab14763 at (170).....
Jul 07th, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fessor..... Ever thought about the intrinsic futility of trying to educate at Troll?
171 Thinkedover
Jul 07th, 2014 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're stating that you're closed-minded , then?
Chuckle chuckle chuck...
@169
Jul 08th, 2014 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0They bought Chinese-made subway cars in '08 to replace 100-year old wooden cars. The new cars were standard-gauge rail cars that were meant to replace cars that presumably were anything but standard. For some reason the new cars did not get delivered until '13 - don't know if it was due to technical issues or money issues (no idea whatsoever how they coughed up $$ to pay for those things).
But I did see in my EE mags that the old rail cars were 1000 volts, whereas the Chinese wagons run on standard 1500 volt overhead catenary. Don't know if that was a planned expense or not...
@173
Jul 08th, 2014 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like the Argentinians do no read the small print in contracts or do not understand enough English.This current debacle as regards the “ holdouts” do you think that they did not read the contracts or like everything they seem to do “ kick the can down the road ” so someone else has to deal with the fallout?
Comon guys stick to the subject matter. Anyone know how the meeting went?
@174 the current holdout debacle was caused by the Kirchner's attempt at forcing a cut of the foreign debt as large as possible, they wanted to kick the can down the road until the RUFO clause expired. Keep in mind even with the massive haircut Argentina can barely pay the debt.
Jul 09th, 2014 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody really knows how the meeting went but chances are there will be a default unless a way is found out to get around RUFO. Kicillof will meet with Pollack again on Friday.
173.
Jul 09th, 2014 - 03:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0You know what? Those wooden cars were just about one of the few things that remained true about baires. I sure miss them. Riding the 'A' line in the front car from downtown to Caballito. Amazed at the underground legends; specially those about the bride ghost between Alberdi and Pasco stations.
YB ... why don't you get a life, focus on enjoying your high life standard in the US and stop bitch1ng around for no reason. Look, I understand FI and British harsh remarks (even sympathize with them) but what's your point? You did get some real great profits here and sold everything before getting dragged into hyper-crisis. Get a grip already.
I'm confused, I am English, my wife Belgium, we live in Portugal and my son speaks Portuguese as a first language and English and French as second languages, so what does that make him?
Jul 09th, 2014 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0@177
Jul 09th, 2014 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NOT a troll like Nostrils! Haha!
177
Jul 09th, 2014 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If he was born in Portugal....Portuguese....
now give me a difficult one.....
@179 Born in England, Now try again.....
Jul 09th, 2014 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As Wellington once said 'Being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse'
180
Jul 09th, 2014 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even easier....I'm on a roll...English!!!
...there you go...confusion over...
@179 Voice
Jul 10th, 2014 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“177
If he was born in Portugal....Portuguese....
now give me a difficult one.....”
@181Voice
“180
Even easier....I'm on a roll...English!!!
...there you go...confusion over...”
I hope everyone remembers these pronouncements of “Voice ”!!
As Wellington once said 'Being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse'
Jul 10th, 2014 - 06:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Except the he didn't say that, Buzzsaw. Daniel O'Connell said it about him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_O%27Connell
The poor old Duke! what shall I say of him? To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.
Your son is whichever of English or Portuguese or both he considers himself to be.
@ Voice ..
Jul 10th, 2014 - 07:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Even easier....I'm on a roll...English!!!
...there you go...confusion over...”
So Voice if I was born in England I am English and hold a British Passport.
If I was born In the Falklands, I am a Falkland Islander that can hold a British Passport.
Super, no squatters then, glad we sorted that out. You seem to be learning. Nostrils on the other hand, still hasn't answered whether my son in an Anglo or not, or is it just too difficult for him.
184
Jul 10th, 2014 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wrong.....Falklands is not a country it's just a BOT....and they never had British passports until a few years ago....
born in England...English
born in Scotland...Scottish
born in Ireland.... Irish
born in Canada...Canadian (did you read that bit...you know who I'm talking to)
born in Falklands....British...and before that....no nationality because no Nation to be a national of......
How simple is that...?
Someone douse me with water...coz I'm not on a roll I'm on fire....
185 “Voice ”
Jul 10th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL, Voice, the 'mysterious ' creep who is most judgemental of anyone on here.
Sorry, Buddy, it is not up to you to define who is what ethnicity or nationality, or unique and distinct society like the Falklsnders.
I'm quite sure HM Government and the Falklanders would think differently than you.
BTW, where are you born?
Does it make you Argentinian?
186
Jul 10th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What part of the synonymity of the words Nation and Nationality don't you understand...?
When the Falklands declares independence from the UK and becomes a Nation then they will have a Nationality....
...and as Britain is Jus soli and not Jus sanguinis...the boy is English...with parents of mixed nationalities...
So my passport should state that my nationality as English then? Is that right Mr Voice?
Jul 10th, 2014 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0187 voice
Jul 10th, 2014 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...and as Britain is Jus soli and not Jus sanguinis...the boy is English...with parents of mixed nationalities...”
Is he therefore, “British”?
...no it will state...British because England is in a Union and doesn't have English passports....
Jul 10th, 2014 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...you are fighting a losing battle....go to the Welsh or Scottish borders and try telling those on the English side they are not English and vice-versa....wars have been fought for less....
Your boy is English...and should be proud of the fact....
ps....he is also Anglo.....
pps...the Jutes were pretty much closely tied with Belgium...same germanic tribe...
the Angles..Saxons and Jutes combined and became known as Anglos....or Anglish...English.....
Oxford Dictionary
Jul 10th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0nation
ˈneɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory.
Falklands...
Large body of people.....Check
United by common descent.....Check
History ....Check
Culture....Check
Language...Check
Inhabiting a particular State or territory.....Check
Falkland Islands a nation as defined by the Oxford Dictionary....
Mr Voice how many nations make up the country of Belgium?
Two...Dutch and French...drive on the ring road round Brussels and the signs change...
Jul 10th, 2014 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0how confusing is that...
1500...a large body of people.....??...common decent....??
You are grasping at straws...give in gracefully.....
The Boy is an Anglo...probably genetically Germanic too...
I am the one grasping at straws eh, says the person who has just contradicted their own argument. So does a nation have to be an independent country Mr Voice? Because that is what you stated. According to you, Yes if its the Falklands but No if its Belgium or Canada for example.
Jul 10th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know what nationality my son is thank you and genetically he has more Irish/Scottish from my side and Germanic from my wife's side.
So an anglo doesn't have to speak English as their first Language to be an Anglo, but rather have the genetic make up of an Anglo? Glad we are finally agreed, so maybe you should inform your friend Trolly Dolly and educate him as he seems rather misguided on the subject.
I would say 1500 was a large enough body of people to justify a definition in this case, unless the UN had defined the minimum number of people to be a Nation?
Common decent...well Argentina are always saying they are implants from the GB, you can't have it both ways.
P.S. Why should I give gracefully, I am not the one who has tied themselves up in knots with their own argument.
Looking forward to your next post....
...yeah OK so the people watching the tennis at Wimbledon are technically a Nation....
Jul 10th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0....ticks most of the boxes.....
...but we know the spectators are not a “Nation” they are people from different Nations....just a bunch of different Nationalities squatting on a piece of land for while....they are indeed people, but not a people....
...but that's Wimbledon for you....
ps...inform the dictionary to add Wimbledon to their definition of a Nation.....
pps...Answer this question...is your son English or not and if the answer is Yes...you have no argument....
190 Voice
Jul 10th, 2014 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...no it will state...British because England is in a Union and doesn't have English passports....
...you are fighting a losing battle....go to the Welsh or Scottish borders and try telling those on the English side they are not English and vice-versa....wars have been fought for less....”
You seem to have avoided my question, “ is he therefore, British?”
You're starting to wriggle and squirm...
....he was born in England..is English and was born in Britain with a political definition called British nationality...a collective political identity....
Jul 10th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0....something you wouldn't understand not being English or Scottish or Welsh...British is secondary and just a word....
So lets get this right, you are arguing that people who go to Wimbledon Tennis are the same as the Falkland Islanders, even though the Tennis followers don't own properties within the AELTC boundary., were not born there and do not reside there. Funnily enough though, we still own a flat just the other side of Wimbledon Park in Penwith Road, so maybe I would be able to claim sovereignty using Argentinas Logic of territorial integrity, Geographical location, historical rhetoric (A flat mate was chucked out of the AELTC by the authorities for being drunk, but he was there for at least 5 hours of un-interupted use)
Jul 10th, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really Mr Voice, get a grip you are really squealing now like your favorite government. Just know when to call it a day, you have no sensible argument. Does the UN set a minimum number of population to be a Nation? You seem to have forgotten to answer the question.
I am also not quite sure what argument I do not have? My son was born in Kingston, UK, he only holds a current Belgium passport and lives in Portugal. He has dual nationality British/Belgium and he is English by virtue of where he was born. If how ever he was born in, lets say the Falklands, he would not be English,Welsh, Scottish or Outer Mongolian he would be a Falkland Islander by birth, with the right to obtain a British Passport. I fail to see why you have trouble understanding this simple concept.
Lets just look at one of your comments in your post..
...just a bunch of different Nationalities squatting on a piece of land for while....they are indeed people, but not a people....just add Argentina to the beginning of the statement. Irony is lost on you, obviously!
But its fine Mr Voice, you keep avoiding the facts and just make ridiculous comparisons and concentrate on squirming, you think we don't notice, but we all see you for what you are.
197
Jul 10th, 2014 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Falkland Islander is not a National identity.....
.....The Isle of Bute are not Buters they are Scottish
,,,the Isle of Wight are not Whighters they are English
A child born in the Falklands is by political definition...just British...call themselves Kelpers or Bennies if they want...it won't change their political definition.
British citizens living on some South Atlantic Islands...
....and at last you answered your own question.....
“he is English by virtue of where he was born.”
no more confusion......he's an Anglo.....;-)
Voicey....I was never in doubt about his origin, your mate Trolly was though, I was hoping he would join in and explain his concept to me.
Jul 10th, 2014 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just to recap you said..
....he was born in England..is English and was born in Britain with a political definition called British nationality...a collective political identity....
....something you wouldn't understand not being English or Scottish or Welsh...British is secondary and just a word....
So according to you British is secondary and just a word.....The isle of Wight is in fact part of England, Bute is in fact part of Scotland....so the Falklands are part of England?, Scotland? Wales?
We have established, with your help, that a nation does not need to be an independent country and that by political definition a child born in Falklands is British, but that British is just a word and secondary to your place of Birth, as you say 'a collective political Identity'. Does Political Identity trump your national identity?
So, according to you, all nations that are entitled to a british passport, can have a unique national identity, except the Falkland Islanders who cannot even though 'British' is just a word and secondary to your national identity.
Can you see the contradiction in your argument, can you... or are you so blinkered that you refuse to see what is plain for every one else to see.
Until you can argue and prove the basic fact that by definition the Falkland Islanders are not a nation (and don't confuse that with a country or Nation state) then you do not have a coherent or justifiable argument. Just rhetoric and emotional incontinence with regard to the fairy story you call the Malvinas
I really don't need to debate this further with you Voicey, you are obviously quite adept at arguing with yourself.
What part of, to have a nationality you need to have a nation.....the nation is Britain the Falklands is where they live . There is no Falklander, just Brits living on disputed territory....
Jul 10th, 2014 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0200 Voice
Jul 11th, 2014 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are deliberately choosing to confuse “Nation” an identifiable people, with “Nation-State”.
It suits your devious and irrelevant purposes not to recognise Falklanders as distinct and unique, and identified uniquely with the Islands.
Nobody else can be Falklanders, whether Argentinian or “British” ( just a word??), unless invited, accepted, or born there.
Sorry,
It is not up to “Voice”.
It's not your decision to make.
It is up to the Falklanders.
Thanks Troy, can't be bothered to repeat that again, some people only understand what they want to.
Jul 11th, 2014 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Voicey you said ...'1500...a large body of people.....??...common decent....??'
Now what is it, are they British, with common decent or are they a mix of people and therefore not british implants and squatters.
Your dear politician suggested ....'On the other hand and distant from the base, a rural population of Islanders of several generations concentrated, a majority, in Puerto Argentino and made up of a great variety of nationalities, over fifty, with a predominance of Chileans.' So no mention of the British, kind of blows your argument Voicey, unless of course he was not telling the truth, but making it sound like your poor South American brothers needed liberating from the clutches of those evil colonial masters.
They whole premise of debate is to have a clear, concise and sensible argument, not to keep changing the facts to suit that argument!
As for disputed territory, only one side has a dispute, the other has had sole possession for a couple of centuries, any so called dispute was sorted out in 1833, 1850 and finally in 1982. Argentina can moan all they like, act like a petulant child and pull stunts like those above, but the islanders have their homes and in line with the UN mandates they are entitled to exercise their self determination without the threat of colonisation from Argentina.
What don't you understand about that?
Bottom line is, the Argentines are squealing, the British are not. No need.
Jul 12th, 2014 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0202 buzz saw
Jul 12th, 2014 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As for disputed territory, only one side has a dispute, the other has had sole possession for a couple of centuries, any so called dispute was sorted out in 1833, 1850 and finally in 1982. Argentina can moan all they like, act like a petulant child and pull stunts like those above, but the islanders have their homes and in line with the UN mandates they are entitled to exercise their self determination without the threat of colonisation from Argentina.”
Well said.
Argentina would have everyone believe that “dispute” means “legitimate legal claim to ownership”, when in fact, they're just hooting from the sidelines.
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