MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands' de-mining plans for next two seasons funded by FCO
The Falkland Islands will be seeing further de-mining over the next two summer seasons funded by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) that will also carry out a tender process for the works, according to a report from Penguin News. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAnyone from the Falklands care to explain this? Fire artillery shells into the minefields. Mine flails. Typhoon-launched missiles. Why are people having to go out and do this?
Jul 18th, 2014 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wartime -advancing troops will clear a path - and accept a few casualties from mines that are missed. In peacetime the only level of effective clearance is a Guarantee of 10o%.
Jul 18th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Conquerer
Jul 18th, 2014 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no guarantee that dropping bombs on a mine field will detonate the mines. You've watched far too many 'war movies'. It doesn't work like that, and mines are designed to detonate when pressure is placed upon the detonator. So unless each and every 'bomb' or 'missile' dropped hit an actual mine, then they probably wouldn't go off.
And then, of course, you have the problems of blinds - that is bombs and missiles that don't detonate, which would then also have to be defused by hand.
Why do you think that the ISAF in Afghanistan didn't just bomb the feck out area's they thought there might be IED's? Because you actually increase the risk to troops, not decrease it.
Added to this is a possibility of an artillery shell or missile going astray and hitting the civilian population and then you can see that it is all a big NO - just not worth the risk.
The people who are defusing the mines are all experts who know their job and the inherent risks involved.
Has conquror ever come up with a sensible solution to any problem?
Jul 18th, 2014 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 4 Idlehands
Jul 18th, 2014 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes he has at times and when he does they are most definitely worth reading.
This comment is just him NOT thinking the problem through and not realising the cost of the ordnance used up.
I believe that legally the country responsible for deploying the mines must be responsible for removing it. This would mean that argentine forces, or argentine personal, would have to be removing them.
Jul 18th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Had the British Government ever required Buenos Aires to do so? Or it is that they don't want to get argentine soldiers there?
Forget about Conqueror, he is just a childish charlatan that enjoys offending people..he is just a clown !!!..he could perfectly be from La Campora or from the Hitler Youth...
I would imagine that artillery shells would simply get swallowed up by the peat without detonating thereby compounding the problem of unexploded ordnance. Of course that solution would never have been seriously comsidered in the first place.
Jul 18th, 2014 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7
Jul 18th, 2014 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes that happened quite frequently during the war and when they did go off in the peat it threw up a lot of mud without doing too much damage.
@7
Jul 18th, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Military sapper units have long explosive “threads” that they can lay across a minefield and detonate in order to clear a path for advancing troops. I don't know if that is viable in peacetime, however. Plus it would likely do a lot of collateral damage to the landscape...
Ground Scan Radar?
@5. Actually, I have thought it through. So let's take it step by step. Where are the minefields and where are the troops? There is no “enemy” to be concerned about, so troops can be where they are “safe”. First up is the artillery firing shells in patterns. Meanwhile, there is a photo-reconnaisance aircraft overhead to pinpoint exploding mines. Next come the mine flails. There's even a company in Aberdeen that makes them and supplies them to the British Army. Armoured against both anti-personnel and anti-tank mines. Missiles from a Typhoon might be a last safety measure. Any areas that the mine flails can't get to? In the long run, a missile is cheaper than a human life. Incidentally, I didn't mention dropping any bombs. Why don't people think things through? Somebody should take the time to consider a list of things that couldn't be done. Couldn't improve on the bow and arrow or the musket. Didn't aircraft HAVE to have four wings? Fly and recover aircraft at sea? Fire a shell 30 kms? Fly faster than sound? Big steel boxes with guns rolling around?
Jul 18th, 2014 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7. Ever heard of airbursts? And precision munitions can be timed as to when they explode. Another thought. TOW missiles. The gunner decides when the shell explodes. Way back there were things called “petards”. People used to run up to castle gates, fix and explosive, light the fuse and run. From where comes the phrase “hoist with one's own petard”. That is what I want to avoid. People getting killed or injured. Isn't that worth an attempt? As for the “thing” @6, who'd pay attention to an argie kraut? Anyone remember Hobart's Funnies? Stupid vehicles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart%27s_Funnies#Designs except that they worked!
@5. I thank you for your backhanded compliment. Sometimes 2000 characters just aren't enough. If they were, no-one would ever write an article, a story or a book!
@9. Ground penetrating radar is NOT an option. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart%27s_Funnies#Designs Antenna in ground contact?
Must read...
Jul 18th, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Dieleke Casabé and look for “The exact shape of the islands” in his film Malvinas ~ ...It would be good that everyone could think a little more and open discussion, contrasting our ideas with other perspectives, including the kelpers...'
http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201407/71458-casabe-y-dieleke-buscan-la-forma-exacta-de-las-islas-malvinas-en-su-filme.html
'Falklands residents' photos on show'
http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201407/71458-casabe-y-dieleke-buscan-la-forma-exacta-de-las-islas-malvinas-en-su-filme.html
'As Winds of Change Blow, South America Builds Its House with BRICS ~...Buenos Aires and Moscow have recently reached greater understanding on a number of international issues, like the conflicts in Syria and Crimea, Argentina sovereignty claim over the Malvinas/Falkland islands and its strategy against the bond holdouts...'
http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201407/71458-casabe-y-dieleke-buscan-la-forma-exacta-de-las-islas-malvinas-en-su-filme.html
'The method Sabella ~ ...He played for Sheffield United and then at Leeds United. It was on English soil where he encouraged his companions to tell the Malvinas Islands were Argentine. But for the respect of his colleagues for their style and behavior never had political problems...'
elgraficodiario.infonews.com/2014/07/18/elgraficodiario-154166-el-metodo-sabella.php
'Argentina and China strengthen the relationship in the food industry ~ ...“China understands the sovereignty claim of Argentina over the islands and that is why the withdrawal of Chinese vessels in the area...”
http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201407/71458-casabe-y-dieleke-buscan-la-forma-exacta-de-las-islas-malvinas-en-su-filme.html
The canpo launched the “Malvinas Question del Litoral” Observatory
Julián Domínguez Falklands sovereignty linked to the concept of “future in Argentina, for their ability to produce food and strategic resources, including water...”
http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201407/71458-casabe-y-dieleke-buscan-la-forma-exacta-de-las-islas-malvinas-en-su-filme.html
Pgerman- not always so- UK would not want to accept that the layer becomes the lifter- rather a LOT of them were lain by UK in North Africa in WW2! and elsewhere probably.
Jul 18th, 2014 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also there is zero chance that we in the Islands would accept Argentine military Engineers or even an Arg civilian company coming to do the work!
You forget they still actively claim 100% our homes and Islands lock stock and barrel and describe us as an irrelevant non-people- who- if they ever got the Islands- would have a simple choice- accept their ultimate rule- or get out and leave what has been our homeland for several generations longer than most Argentines have lived in theirs!
We trust the Zimbabwe lads - they do a great job. I would never ever trust an Argentine de-miner!
One would think that the Argentine military has a record of what they buried, and where, to protect their own troops. Even if not altogether complete, or accurate, it would be helpful. Evidently, they have refused to provide whatever information they have.
Jul 19th, 2014 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0@13
Jul 19th, 2014 - 04:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your information is not the correct one, based on all the information published, all the available the maps of the minings were given to the British troops by the argentine militars. Having the maps doesn't solve the issue, it just limit its danger, since the mines must be found one by one in large fields. Thanks to these pieces of information not a single human being was injured by a personal mine in the FI since the end of the war.
@ 12
I have never read that the Islanders will have to leave their homes if the islands become part of Argentina.
Based on your comments it seems that the islanders don't want that the argentine soldiers make the jobs as it's thier duty.
In addtion, let me ask one thing. If the islanders are as british as londoners and they are well represented by the British Embassy..why would they want to have “face to face” meetings with the Argentine Goverment? I would accept that the London Major would like to meet, let´s say the Buenos Aires Major....but...Why would a national goverment want to meet the islanders authorities? Why would the islanders authorities want to meet the Argentine Government. Mainly when the Governor is determined by the British Government....
@10 Conquerer
Jul 19th, 2014 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please read my comment @3 to understand why bombing the crap out of the mine filed WON'T work.
If it could I'm sure they would've already done it, wouldn't they?
You don't understand anti-personnel mines. It's not like in the movies where someone puts their foot on it and feels it shift underneath, giving the 'hero' time to defuse it.
They tend to explode when stood on. Some of the REALLY nasty ones aren't made out of metal (so metal detectors are useless). Others explode twice. The 1st explosion takes the foot of the person who stood on it, then the main part of the mine actually springs 3-4 feet in the air, then explodes, sending shrapnel in a 360 degree radius, killing or wounding anyone within 30 feet.
But as I said earlier dropping bombs on them WON'T detonate them. They're not designed that way.
@14 pgerman
The maps the Argentines produced where next to useless. Most of those laying the mines either just marked roughly where the mine was, not exactly as required by international law, or didn't bother marking them down at all.
This was even more apparent when the Argentine troops realised they were losing and so were just planting mines any and everywhere in the hopes of slowing or stopping the British advance.
Argentina definitely BROKE international law by NOT accurately marking where they laid the mines. While I understand the Falkland Islanders sentiments in not wanting any Argentine military or civilian company anywhere near them (especially given the fact that they wouldn't be competent) I do feel that the Argentine government should foot the bill for their removal.
If Argentine is serious about resolving this 'dispute' then they will HAVE to meet the Falklanders, eventually. So why do they keep running away? I mean the UN resolutions states that the interests of the islanders must be taken into account. How can Argentina know what those interests are if the REFUSE to meet with them?
Argentine government = hypocrites & cowards.
The Argentine Government should definitely be paying for this. They are responsible All aid to them should cease.
Jul 19th, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 016
Jul 19th, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what aid?
lol
britain must still pay all the food shipments argentina sent during ww2.
and taking in account the uk is the most indebted country of the world, i don´t think they are in position to aid anyone.
The UK sends £2million in direct Aid to Argentina. Also UK contributes a further £7 million as part of the EU Aid package of £50 million to Argentina.
Jul 19th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every year.
Maybe be you didn't know that.
Argentina has been paid for any food it sent 70 years ago. Settled a long time ago.
Maybe you didn't know that.
The UK gives the highest % of GDP in Aid of any country in the world.
Maybe you didn't know that.
The UK is not the most indebted country in world.
Argentina is about to default in only 2 weeks time which suggests it has quite severe debt issues.
Maybe you didn't know that.
Maybe you are a frickin' idiot.
Maybe you didn't know that either.
Enjoy your default burger, McSquealer!
imbecile 18
Jul 19th, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The UK is not the most indebted country in world. ”
says the imbecile...
“UK's debts 'biggest in the world'”
“UK most indebted nation in the world reveals new study”
“Britain: The most indebted nation on Earth
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara tells Julian Knight that the Consumer Credit Counselling Service expects to see lots more families in trouble”
”2. United Kingdom: 451.4%
External debt (as % of GDP): 451.4%
Gross external debt: $10.157 trillion
2011 GDP (est.): $2.250 trillion
External debt per capita: $161,110”
maybe you didn´t know that.
maybe you are a fucking idiot.
maybe you didn´t know that either.
Haha!
Jul 19th, 2014 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Watch him squealing! Polly got burned.
You forgot to say Thank You for the Aid. So obviously you have no manners as well as no money.
I pay tax in the UK so I am one of those contributing to the Aid to Argentina. I am happy to accept your gratitude and thanks on behalf of these very kind people.
30% poverty and a default coming. You will notice to be very humble next time you come to me to ask for Aid.
:-)
imbecile 20
Jul 19th, 2014 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0unlike you, you halfwit, i do not deny all the mess this government has done through +/- 10 years.
i do not deny all the economic and social problems we have.
the imbecile who does that, is you.
you still believe that all the crap this 4th class pasquinade publishes is true.
not a surprise though, considering your level of education and your IQ.
#21
Jul 19th, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can see that this is a private fight but could you tell us what is your level of education and IQ.
#21
Jul 19th, 2014 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can't believe you are stupid enough to keep peddling that crap about the UK being the most indebted country in the world.
Firstly, the UK does not have the highest amount of external debt, that is the US. The UK does not have the highest amount of external debt by GDP, that falls to Luxembourg and Ireland.
Secondly, just quoting the amount of external debt is meaningless without taking into account the overseas assets held by British Citizens, the UK government, and UK registered entities. Subtracting one from the other gives the Net International Investment Position, and the UK is much better than many other countries.
This level of ignorance is to be expected by someone brainwashed by his nation to believe a nearby group of islands are theirs based on actions 200 years ago. Just pathetic.
22
Jul 19th, 2014 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“but could you tell us what is your level of education and IQ.”
higher than yours.
and higher than yours.
#24
Jul 19th, 2014 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Care to admit you are wrong when you claimed the UK was the most indebted nation? By no metric is that true.
probably a lot higher than [24] LOL
Jul 19th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#24
Jul 19th, 2014 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No? Not going to admit it? A coward and either a liar or wrong then.
Pgerman- Your Govt has made it quite clear- if it were to take over then IT would be the ultimate authority and if we did not like the rules and its version of our “interests” - then we would need to leave.
Jul 19th, 2014 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are your Politician scared of meeting ours- how on eart can they ever have any idea of OUR interests if they don't?
I will tell you - It is because your Govt never HAS nor ever WILL have any intention of ever doing anything that is in OUR Interests and Wishes!
Minefields- Yes several British Servicemen Engineers were badly injured attempting to clear poorly marked minefields in the months AFTRE the end of the war.
Indeed one of the clearance company leaders was one of them and has the steel leg and foot below the knee to prove it.
Some maps- those fields laid by the professional Argentine Army Engineers are well marked and correctly laid out. They are the easier and safer ones to lift
as once you have found the first 2 or 3 you have the key from the map and then know where all the others should be.
Many were, as others have said- were caused by irresponsible Arg Army officers who gave boxes of mines to poorly trained conscript soldiers and basically just told them “ go and lay mines”!
Here the areas are now marked but what is exactly where inside the fences is guess-work! And then add in 32 years of sinking in peat-moving in sand dunes by wind - and changes in beach levels by tides etc - get the picture?
I recall late April 1982 announcements on our radio-run by the Arg military telling us civilians to keep off certain areas because of mines laid by“the retreating colonial british marines” - they of course did not have any- let alone the time to lay them! Trust was it was because Arg troops were starting to blow each other up on minfields one lot would lay but then fail to tell others nearby about it!
@1 Conqueror
Jul 19th, 2014 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The risk with causing multiple explosions in a minefield is that unexploded mines can be flung out of the minefield -that's OK if you know were that mine (s )lands, but not if it disappears (i.e in Diddle Dee ferns peat etc)-the idea being that at the moment, the EOD know the areas which contains the mines and don't want to increase danger areas. This is certainly why flails aren't used, and I believe that is why the mines have to be detected in field-I remember an occasion when a peat fire in a minefield (near Stanley) was settling off some mines-but the fire dept put the fire out as they were concerned with undetonated mines being flung outside the marked minefield.
The argentines were shysters to plant mines in the graveyard at Fox Bay (I believe), imagine the Argentine veterans moaning if the Argentine cemetery was mined?
@21, 22 & 23
Jul 20th, 2014 - 01:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have a BA Hons and a MSc.
I run businesses in the UK and Venezuela. I support a large extended family both in the UK and Venezuela. Obviously my level of IQ is sufficient as I have been achieving this for many years.
On the subject of the topic, @28 makes some very good points.
Has 24 paulcedron (#) anything to contribute other than
“22
“but could you tell us what is your level of education and IQ.”
higher than yours.
and higher than yours.”
The petulant fool.
PS: Paul, I am still awaiting your response to:
16 ilsen (#)
Jul 19th, 2014 - 01:56 pm
The Argentine Government should definitely be paying for this. They are responsible All aid to them should cease.
17 paulcedron (#)
Jul 19th, 2014 - 02:23 pm
16
what aid?
lol
britain must still pay all the food shipments argentina sent during ww2.
and taking in account the uk is the most indebted country of the world, i don´t think they are in position to aid anyone.
18 ilsen (#)
Jul 19th, 2014 - 02:54 pm
The UK sends £2million in direct Aid to Argentina. Also UK contributes a further £7 million as part of the EU Aid package of £50 million to Argentina.
Every year.
Maybe be you didn't know that. ”
Come on Paul, say Thank You to the nice British people. It is good manners to thank your benefactors, don't you know?
PS: Thanks to all the posters, posting on topic, very interesting. I have learnt a lot about the minefields. I still think UK should send the Bill to La Casa Rosada when the job is done tho! Some seriously brave and clever people are clearing up this Argentine mess. I hope they are rewarded well.
#24
Jul 20th, 2014 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously did not take aboard any of your “education”
Typical “Argie”...unable to answer a straight question.
As to your IQ...no sign of anything above average here...rather the reverse.
Filmus DESTACO SUPPORT FROM CHINA TO CLAIM BY ARGENTINA FALKLAND ISLANDS - The secretary of the Malvinas Question Relating to Issues, Daniel Filmus, today stressed the importance of support from China to Argentina under the historical claim to sovereignty over the islands, expressed yesterday in a joint statement signed by President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and his counterpart of China, Xi Jinping.
Jul 20th, 2014 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It is extremely important that the explicit support of China to our sovereignty claim on the Malvinas Question has been part of a joint declaration signed by the presidents of both countries yesterday in Buenos Aires,” said Filmus Telam...'
noticias.terra.com.ar/politica/filmus-destaco-el-apoyo-de-china-al-reclamo-argentino-por-las-islas-malvinas,6424282170057410VgnCLD200000b2bf46d0RCRD.html
'Growing feeling in Uruguay antikirchnerista - Various opinion polls reflect a rejection of much of society, motivated by policies that generated a break in the bilateral relationship... ~The anger that came incubating since 2005 is of such dimensions that, if consulted should support Argentina in its claim over the Falkland Islands, only 16 percent said yes . By contrast, 76 percent felt that Uruguay should “remain neutral ”...
http://www.infobae.com/2014/07/20/1581991-crece-el-sentimiento-antikirchnerista-uruguay
imbecile 30
Jul 20th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I have a BA Hons and a MSc.
I run businesses in the UK and Venezuela.”
who?
you??
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha
good one
you loser and liar
@33
Jul 20th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no need to prove anything to you. I really don't care whether you believe me or not. I have never lied on here. No need. You on the other hand frequently lie as I have proved in past.
When are you going to say thank you for the Aid that the British send to Argentina?
you are not ungrateful, are you?
19 paulcedron
Jul 21st, 2014 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0A few citations needed there old chap. Don't put things in quotation marks unless you're going to say where they came from.
Of course, you'd know that if you'd had any kind of education.
Anyway, it's not the level of debt that's important; it's whether you can service the debt that matters.
Not sure you'd be familiar with that idea, being Argentine and all.
@33 Paulcedron
Jul 21st, 2014 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0By your omission, you clearly have no qualifications at all, otherwise being Argentine, you would boast about them.
Carry on with the' colour by numbers' books.
Apparently
Jul 21st, 2014 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@33 Paulcedron
left school will 3 yes 3 A Levels,
Absent
Absent
Absent.......lolol
Haha! Haha! Hahaha!
Jul 21st, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0idiots and imbeciles various
Jul 21st, 2014 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0copy the quote, google it, and voila, you will have the source, imbecile.
you don´t even know how to use the internet.
not a surprise though.
must be a new thing in the islets, no?
nabo 34
and who cares if you have a B.A. Hons and blablabla.
clearly you didn't even finish the primary school.
if you want to impress the other little islanders, saying that you finished 7th grade, would be more than enough.
#39 Perhaps the Islanders can correct me, but don't many of the islanders go to the UK for Sixth form and University? The UK has about the finest tertiary education system in world.
Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 040 inthegutter
Jul 21st, 2014 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're right there.
And a commitment to lifelong learning as well; I'm going back to university in the UK next year for a mid- career sabbatical. Competition for funding for higher degrees is pretty stiff, as it should be, but it is there for things that are useful to the islands.
#41 Cheers Monty. Does FIG help fund that? What are your plans, if you don't mind me asking? I currently teach at a south coast university.
Jul 21st, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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