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Judge Griesa summons Argentina and holdouts for a Friday hearing

Thursday, July 31st 2014 - 22:10 UTC
Full article 42 comments

After negotiations between the Argentine government and the speculative funds, led by US Special Master Daniel Pollack failed, New York District Judge Thomas Griesa called for a new hearing between the parties for Friday at 12 pm (Argentina time). Read full article


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  • Klingon

    Maybe this is Axel's plan to travel back in forth and eventually he will have enough air points to pay off the debt.
    Gresia needs to grow a sack and tell the vultures to stop being such greedy assholes and find some middle ground.

    Jul 31st, 2014 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Alistair Nigel (EUian)

    Uhh.... Griesa is part of the Vulture fund lobby.

    There is no separation between US justice courts and the US financial industry. They are one and the same and this was a fact way before Griesa made his rulings against Argentina.

    US courts ALWAYS side with banks and against (even) American citizens.

    Thus all the bailouts of banks that were approved, while courts simultaneously approved taking away the homes of poor people who paid taxes and thus helped bailed out the very banks who were now taking away their homes. So the poor bailed out the banks, who then denied bailing out the poor and took away their homes, and courts approved it every time (since in the US liquidation of homes goes through a court process).

    It's one fucked up culture and mentality.

    Jul 31st, 2014 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    There's no negotiating judgments. You pay what is due in cash and immediately.

    ick that nasty old lithium soaked hag and the f*ckwit retard Axel have been squealing for an hour or two about getting shafted by the Gringos.

    Can't they just shut up and realize they lost and have to pay?

    Jul 31st, 2014 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Hahaha....who is he now Judge Judy...?
    ...“the case will be “regarding the recent default by the Republic of Argentina,””
    WTF kind of a case is that...?
    The default is done....he dispensed a judgement....??..Is this more Griesa back peddling or another Griesafault....

    Jul 31st, 2014 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bird's eye view

    Mr Nigel: Your comment that US courts always side with banks against its citizens is grossly in error. Today's Financial Times reports that Wall St banks & their foreign rivals have paid out $100 bn US legal settlements since the financial crisis, with more than half coming in the past year. You should consider studying the facts before you pop off with some mealy mouthed Bolivarian socialist slander. This forum is best served by dishing out reality, not propaganda.

    Jul 31st, 2014 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    I wonder what is going through this judges mind at the moment...“WTF have I done, I have just caused a Sovereign Country with a population of forty odd million to default in the support of a shyster Vulture out to make a fast buck”
    I wonder also what “Internal” pressure is now being applied to him by the powers that be to achieve a compromise.....

    Jul 31st, 2014 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Strange how Alastair's English, considering that he is Chinese of course, has improved in two weeks to the level that it is identical to Trolley-boy Stoner.
    wierd huh?
    Back on topic. Is Argentina now officially in Default?

    Jul 31st, 2014 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    How could they write a multi billion dollar contract and leave out the fact that the bonds are denominated in different currencies? These fat cat lawyers are not as smart as they seem.
    @6 Yep, Gresia is doing some back pedaling and trying to avoid a big cum stain (courtesy of NWL) on his history as a judge.

    Jul 31st, 2014 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Do the right thing Argentina...and tell him what to do with his hearing....
    Tell him....You are a foreign Yankee do not “Summon” a Sovereign Nation...
    If he has a proposal...let him put it in writing and send it through the right channels...
    Summon indeed...
    Let him go down in history as a senile old bat, that hadn't a clue what he was doing....

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • commonsparrow

    Re-read the 4th paragraph. Axel did'nt know how it all works. Griesa is a gentleman and does not want to see Argentina suffer. But he will hold Argentina accountable. Its ok in the USA to change your mind.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    ....the 4th paragraph...?
    ....“A court's official informed on Thursday holdout representatives and Argentine officials will be part of the meeting.”....;-)
    I think you mean the 5th paragraph...a poor misquote...
    The paragraph actually meant this....

    ”The Argentine official admitted “honestly I don't understand US Justice system in which 1% of holdouts is blocking 92% from collecting their coupon. We offered to pay holdouts, we requested that all bondholders be part of the discussions, but Judge Griesa rejected the idea, and his ruling was supported by an Appeals court and the Supreme Court. Honestly it's hard to understand this ferocious speculative capitalism”.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0

    Axel Kicillof said, insisting: “ This is not a default.”

    CFK Mantra: Repeat after me “ This is not a default.” 12 times

    And then 24 Hail Marys, just in case.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    11 Voice

    ...being deliberately obtuse, like Think(!), like Kicilaff

    it's very simple really - you are ordered to pay ALL the creditors, not just the ones you choose.

    CAN'T pay or WON'T pay - you are in DEFAULT.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    That vultures have great economic and political power to influence Ghana's justice so as to retain our frigate, well it can happen.......but it is supposed that US justice is a Little more serious and less influenced.....I understand they want the money, but analizing also how they bought the bonds, which bonds, at what Price, how the other bondholders got payed and 90 % of the debt was reestructured in good terms, the vultures cant put all “their” conditions.....these vultures actions should be combated in some way, they are not very ethic after all ...its my common sense opinion

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    @11 Total brain dead dumbass.

    Somebody else's fault again. Sheesh!! Do you have at least any little criticism of the Argentine political system?

    Axel K. is a moron! Holy crap how long has this issue been in the U.S. courts. After all of that “pari passu” debate for years and years Kicilloff ask, “why can't we pay the 92%, I don't have any idea”. Kicilloff is a numnuts and so are you.

    Shit! They can't pay the 92% because they have to pay the holdouts too! The Argentine government idiots signed off on this.

    How on earth after years and years of this don't you get that!!!

    How many fukking courts do you need to go thru for it to finally get thru your incredibly thick fukking head!!?

    Argentines are deadbeat thieves. That's all there is to it you leftist moron dipshit.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    One thing some of the argies on here haven't realised is that not only is Argentina now in default, but its also now in contempt of court for not obeying a court ordered judgement. If a person disobeyed a court ordered judgement, assets will be seized to the value of the debt, and if the assets are not enough to cover the value and an agreed repayment plan (Not likely to happen, as this is what the negotiations were for in the first place), then that debtor (person) would face time in jail.

    Obviously no one can be jailed for a countries national debt non payment, but interest and fines etc will be applied on top of each other for as long as the holdouts are not paid. End of the day, the holdouts had the right to refuse the restructured payments because it was their money in the first place that Argentina owes them, even if they are not the original creditors and merely bought the rights to the debt from the original creditors, its still their money that is owed to them.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 01:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Alistair Nigel (EUian)


    I have since my name change attended night classes from 19:00 to 01:45, as I promised Hans Niesund to better integrate with Anglos, a race of people that speak English.

    Hard work pays off, that is all. I am still Chinese to the soul.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 02:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Argentina waived sovereignty, they have no more rights than any individual that signs a contract under NY law.
    They lost and they will pay.

    I hope he starts with the non-embassy buildings in NY and DC. I would love to see the arrogant and slow-witted marxists currently working in those buildings thrown out on their as*, cars towed away and then nobody will even rent to them because they are known deadbeat scofflaws.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot


    “ I am still Chinese to the soul.”

    Har, har, har!!!

    I thought you were Narine from France.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 03:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Alistair Nigel (EUian)

    Narine is who?

    She sounds very attractive.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Or a nut from Brasil

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Alistair Nigel (EUian)

    Why are you so misogynist?

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 04:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @9 Voice. Great idea. Perhaps Argentina should go back to the barter system...

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    ....looks like I have over 100 Economists agreeing with my views....(see new headline)
    Thinkers ..not the bigoted armchair variety on here....
    Most folk with a brain would realise the implications of this stupid judge for any the future...
    Didn't I say @6 the kind of pressure being applied...?
    You are all just a bunch of bigots blinded by your hate....
    Anyone can get into debt and that includes Nations....

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Orbit

    @24 Yes but the NY courts, the appeals court and SCOTUS don't agree with you. And they have a say in this matter. The matter being the implementation of contract law. In case you had forgotten.

    Am sure that for every one of your economists, we could find a million thinkers that like the fact that people are held accountable for contracts they sign. It kinda makes the world go round.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    @24 - This doesn't have an implcation for future restructurings. Nearly all bonmd contracts have drag along rights now which stop this kind of thing so the impact is minimal. Economists they are, lawyers with an understanding of the inns and outs of bond docs they aren't. The reason Argentina doesn't have these rights is that their docs are so old and have been restructed some many times that the inital agreements are outdated and not market standard. They really ned to pay off this debt and start afresh so that they next time they issue they have protections similar to other nations.

    I will be interested to see what the judge has to say. Agrentina has not negotiated in good faith throughout the entirey of the process. They have made some very miguided accusations against the judicial system, the special master and the judge. They are effectively in contempt of court for not paying up but they are also in a sort of “further contepmt” of court as they have accused the court of bias, neglience and corruption. This is a cirminal offence in the US (I think). I wonder whwther the judge will tear Weil Gotshall a new not for not keeping thier client under control...

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    So Griesa will be coming for puting Cristina in jail???
    Vultures are usureros, they know the financial system so as to obtain usureras earnings of defautled debts. come onnnnn we dont eat glass, they are not a common people that buys arg bonds. they wants more than what it corresponds, if not they wouldnt refuse to negotiate. Arg has offered to pay them. And has asked for time also.
    And Arg has restructured 92,4 % of its debt and pay its. Has made accords, had been accepted. All in legal terms.
    If you buy a bond, you also have the risk of loosing money, a country goes up and down, but Arg payed more tan 90 % of its debt. Pays to the Paris club debt and pays Repsol debt.
    And Griesa doesn t understand much of the situation. It has been said after watching his manage of the audiences. You cant put on a similar level the vultures.
    And if 1 % puts in matter all a country that pays and that wants to pay and negotiate with them ....really really, the US justice is not longer trustable.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Voice, Internal pressure from 100 economists! Bahahahaha you are such a retard. At least you make me laugh first thing in the morning.

    Malen, Griesa doesn't have to understand what the add on effects has to Argentina. He only needed to rule on the bond wording. Paying PC, ICSID claims, other 92% yadda yadda makes no difference to anyone.
    BTW paying 10yr old debt is the right thing to do you don't get any pats on the head for doing what you are supposed to do in the USA.

    I hope Griesa gives NML the U$500MM at BONY today and another U$1.1 in YPF stock so this can finally be over with.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Malen (whatever you are)
    “its my common sense opinion” Ha, ha, ha.

    That's up there with the Falklands will be returned in 25 years!

    Stupid prat.

    The Dark Country (TDC) deserves EVERYTHING it is about to experience:
    gas shipments sequestered once TDC has paid for them;
    YPF shares transferred to whoever Singer sells them to;
    sky high inflation;
    the pesos reaching rediculously weak levels;
    and best of all, the international companies leaving en masse.

    But none of this matters to you, after all you live in the US, don't you, really?

    Ha, ha, ha.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    Nearly all bonmd contracts have drag along rights now which stop this kind of thing so the impact is minimal. So if NOW there is sth that sotps this kind of thing in the future, its because there is sth that must be stopped in this case too.
    and best of all, the international companies leaving en masse.......the yanqui and the UK ones first, please!!!!!The door is open....I want to see it....NOWWWW

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    30. I would love to see all the USA drug mfgs and Auto companies leave en masse. There's a mighty good chance that could happen if they can't repatriate the profits this month as they were promised last year.
    Mighty good chance.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    @30 - This isn't legislation you prick and even if it was, it wouldn't be retrospective. This is how the bond markets have evolved over the years and the US courts won't writ clauses into contract that don't exist. This is a private matter under contract law. Go and do some reading and educate yourself in this matter.

    And as for the international companies leaving, if they do your economy is going to be more fcuked than a 20 dollar whore in a dormitory full of rapists.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Alistair Nigel (EUian)

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    6, 9 Voice

    None, humble opinions without supporting evidence remain in the twilight world of mere speculation.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @24. Can you follow this? The law is, essentially, fixed. Economics is what a bunch of tosspots “Think” it is. NO-ONE applies pressure to a judge. At least not in a proper country. All it gets you is time in the pokey. Ridiculous “economists” trying to influence the U.S. Congress. That has no authority to overturn Judge Griesa's order anyway.
    @27. When do you plan on getting some intelligence?
    @30. Who is the majority shareholder? Do you even understand “drag-along right”?
    @33. Mad, psychotic noises!

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    33. If I were the next Prez of Argentina, I would let the USA DEA come into the country and investigate the Meth trade with under the Kirchner Regimes has skyrocketed.

    In fact, as Doug Farah has written, the local pharmaceutical-¬vendors¬-turned¬-meth¬-suppliers -- that is, the Sinaloa Cartel’s local partners -- turned into a major source of President Kirchner's campaign financing. This group was responsible for roughly 4.5 million pesos, then worth some US$1.5 million, of donations to the 2007 campaign. This was out of a total of less than 15 million pesos in reported contributions, meaning that the local pharmaceutical industry, allied with the Sinaloa Cartel, played an essential role in bankrolling President Kirchner’s victory. For the Cartel, the election of Cristina “meant business as usual.”

    That would get rid of all those nasty Ks and they can rot in a USA prison.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    A contract is an agreement between two parties, if you don't like the agreement don't sign up to it. Seriously it is really that simple.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Argentina doesn't regard agreements as binding.
    There must always be a leeway for “negotiations”, even after the agreements have been signed.
    And if Argentina suddenly doesn't like the way the agreement works out, they think that they have the right to simply walk out.
    l wouldn't even consider doing business with this sort of people.

    Aug 01st, 2014 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

    US Judge Griesa orders all parties to continue to meet.

    “ Let's cool down any idea of mistrust [and] let's go back to work,” US District Judge Thomas Griesa, who has jurisdiction over the bonds after Argentina agreed to hold talks under New York law, said on Friday.

    He also ordered President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner's government to return to the negotiating table with bondholders, adding that the disparaging remarks should stop because nothing will eliminate Argentina's obligations to pay bondholders - a fact that its government is ignoring.

    “ What occurred this week did not extinguish or reduce the obligations of the Republic of Argentina.”

    Axel also stated that rating companies in this case, don't matter.

    Aug 02nd, 2014 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod102

    @5 birds eye view “Mr Nigel: Your comment that US courts always side with banks against its citizens is grossly in error...”

    Yes, he does that. On two occasions I have conclusively demonstrated that he has made totally incorrect statements. His response was to run away by changing his character's name. He's now pretending to be Chinese or some odd entity only he calls an EUian. He's neither. Whatever he is, he has repeatedly demonstrated a lack of honesty that means his opinion has zero value.

    He hasn't responded to your comment but has tried to explain the variable quality of his English by doing night classes! So I'd assume that he has no answer, because he's wrong. Again.

    I tend to skip over his messages without reading them now. :-)

    Aug 02nd, 2014 - 02:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    New chinese trains for Arg, and it seems they are working well...
    We should trade with those countries that let us grow, more and more.

    Aug 02nd, 2014 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Sir Winston

    The Argentine government -the actual, that is, is nothing but a child having a tantrum. The Economy minister of Argentina and the President herself can keep yelling against the vultures, Judge Griesa, and the application of the law., and yet every time they speak, they are costing the argentines more money. Sinking the country with each public statement. Argentines are so tired of their government! No one ignores in Argentina that all this “vultures talk” has to do with anger, frustration and political propaganda, the same way Maduro from Venezuela, keeps referring to the US, as the Imperialists. I do hope that Judge Griesa, gives the negotiators some more time, the government doesn't deserve it, but the argentines do.

    Aug 03rd, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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