MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Mercosur divided on the Gaza Strip statement; Paraguay dissented
Paraguay strongly objected a draft Mercosur declaration on Gaza which wanted to openly support Palestine and unilaterally condemn Israel's bombings and incursions, according to sources at the group's summit which took place Tuesday in Caracas. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThe only people who can sort this out are the Palestinians and the Israelis.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever Mercosur declare will not make a jot of a difference.
You have an almost insurmountable problem. On one hand you have Israeli Zionists who firmly believe that God granted them the land of Israel which is non negotiable and Hamas whose aim is the destruction of Israel.
Please send in a solution and win the Nobel Peace Prize !
They need a biblical flood and then they can start over.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where do I claim my prize?
The lefties are murderers they will support any terrorist to get their way they are bringing to south America the issues to south America, they are bringing terrorism to south America what a bunch of idiots self-centered the military should have finish all of them they are a plague. Paraguay you are still the only sane country in a sea of idiots.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0#3
Jul 31st, 2014 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Spare us the left-right crap. Either side of the political spectrum can be murders.
Both Hamas and Israel are equally guilty in this situation and both deserve to be shunned by the entire international community.
“The only people who can sort this out are the Palestinians and the Israelis.”
I disagree. Israel will gain nothing from stopping the Gaza offensive, or from pulling out of the West Bank. Similarly, Hamas will gain nothing from stopping its attacks. Either way would be political suicide.
The only thing that will help is if we disengage, politically, economically, and culturally, from both until they stop acting like children.
If we were more proactive the UN (or even EU) would take control of Gaza's security (eliminating its offensive capabilities) and in return Israel would be forced to allow Gaza to open its international borders. It wouldn't cost the EU/UN much to rebuild Gaza's infrastructure and provide the population with work.
Paraguay once again shames the commie bastards who 'rule' the rest of us.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Regrettably there will never be a peaceful solution given the position of the Islamists wanting the entire race of Jews killed.
I fervently hope that Israel massacres the Muslims who are hell bent on their destruction, wherever they are in the region. It would save the West from having to do it sooner or later, and the sooner the better.
Unless I am mistaken, Hamas has been declared a terrorist organization by most of the civilized world...
Jul 31st, 2014 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some brothers of America has not yet become aware of the atrocities committed by Israel.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgozonWVJt0
Israel must be destroyed!
#5,7
Jul 31st, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you're both wrong. Israel has a legal right to exist. However, it doesn't have the continued right to massacre and oppress the Palestinians. Hamas doesn't have the right to target Israeli civilians and hide behind their own civilians.
The actions of Haganah and the Irgun (who went on to form the core of the IDF and the Israeli administration) against British soldiers and administration nearing the end of the mandate era was appalling.
Nothing Mercosur says is going to make the slightest bit of difference to what is occurring in Gaza or Israel.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4
The problem, IMO, with your last para is that as attractive as it might sound, establishing a peace-keeping organisation in Gaza would require disarming Hamas. I can't see any realistic circumstance whereby Hamas would voluntarily give up their weapons.
@5
Jul 31st, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As we've seen on other threads, you'll find plenty people in Israel who share your enthusiasm for massacre, often in prominent positions in government, military, and the religious establishment.
The only thing is, it's pretty much indistinguishable from what the Islamic loony fringe believes, they have the capacity to actually implement it, they're going about it with enthusiastic self-righteousness, and we're all supposed to believe they're the last bastion of civilised values.
Right.
@1. What are “Palestinians”? I don't remember “palestine” being a country. The truth is that what some call “palestinians” are actually greedy, thieving, muslim, jihadist, murdering arabs.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4. Idiot. Who has been attacked for 66 years? I support Israel. The best thing for the world is for Gaza to cease to exist. Then Israel can turn its attention to the West Bank. And remove the scum.
@5. Couldn't agree more. Does Israel have nukes? If not, we should supply them.
@7. But then some people forget the atrocities committed by the Portuguese, spanish and fellow travellers. Just need to figure a way to exterminate the genocides without harming the amerindians.
@8. Do get a grip. Israel has been continuously and repeatedly attacked for 66 years. And Israel has no right to respond effectively? Hamas and its ilk think they have the “right” to wipe Israel off the planet? Then Israel has the right to wipe arabs off the planet. And I hope they do it soon!
The United Nations gave the land of Israel back to the Hebrews. Anyone who obstructs that is an enemy of the world. Except for certain skunks that we all know. Russia, North Korea, Iran, argie.land, virtually all arab places, most of south america. The UN could sort this out. Call for troops and other forces from every proper nation. Declare arabs and islam to be enemies of the world! Let them find out what it is like to be declared those who must be wiped off the planet. Expel arabs and muslims from every “proper” country. Let them wander the world, unwanted, persecuted, murdered, expelled. For 2,000 years. See how they like it.
Good to hear Conqueror bringing some sanity to the debate as usual
Jul 31st, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#11
Jul 31st, 2014 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh be quiet you homophobic racist twat. You really do let the British side down when it comes to the Falklands debate.
“The United Nations gave the land of Israel back to the Hebrews.”
Wrong. The United Nations split the former British Mandate of Palestine into Jewish (Israel) and Arab (Palestine) states.
The Arabs in Palestine, and the neighbouring Arab states rejected this and invaded Israeli territory. Israel fought back and won, and conquered more territory (legally dubious given the UN's proscription of territorial expansion). The neighbouring Arab states annexed the remaining Palestinian Territories. Subsequently Israel fought further wars and conquered the remaining Palestinian Territories. Israel began the process of integrating those conquered territories which again is legally dubious.
Now, I'm not suggesting Hamas has the right to target civilian populations but in my opinion Israel does not have the right to annex the remaining Palestinian Territories. Both sides are to blame and equally complicit in the ongoing slaughter.
I am however surprised Conqueror at your unwavering support for Israel, during the Insurgency Jewish Paramilitaries murdered hundreds of British Troops and administrators, many veterans of the European theatre.
@7.... Unless you are a Muslim, after Israel will be destroyed as you wish, you are the next in line. Jews are only part of Muslims problem Christians Hindus and all other INFIDELS are. Read the Quran. It commands the KILLING (burning in hell) of all those who will not convert to Islam. The final goal is the Caliphate where you and I have no room. And BTW, I bet you 1;1000 that you really know nothing about the conflict, unless of course you are a devoted supporter of the Hamas.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hamas only targets military installations? They purposely aim at civil centers. What would have happened if they could hit where they wanted to? Can you imagine the atrocities then? Israel is acting with un-proportional force? What do you want them to do, meet the Hamas with the cavalry? If you have butter on your head, don’t walk in the sun. And as for the Palestinians in Gaza, THEY have elected the Hamas to rule them DEMOCRATICALLY. Up to now there are (unfortunately) 500+ casualties among the Palestinians. And by-the-way, did you also raised hell about the present slaughter Syria (123,000), Darfur over a million, Libya 100,000+, Iraq (now) over 100,000 and in the war with Iran over 1 million and more where MUSLIMS KILL MUSLIMS. 66 years of Arab aggression taught the Israelis what they must do if they want to survive.
Open your eyes to reality.
@ 9 Heisenberg
Jul 31st, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And why Israel will not give up their guns? We have a saying in Brazil: Pepper in the eyes of others is refreshment.
Let's put ourselves in the shoes of the Palestinians just a moment:
1) We were a English colony of exploitation;
2) With the end of colonization were forced by the United Nations to accept live within our territory with the Jewish nation;
3) the Jewish nation was recognized by other nations as a country, for Palestine was denied this recognition (all this within our own geographic territory).
4) The Jewish State built a wall of shame that divided our territory in half, separating our families;
5) The State of Israel sponsored the settlement of Palestinian territory by Israeli building houses for his people;
6) Palestine and especially Gaza can not trade because the state of Israel forbids;
7) Israelis kill, rape and slaughtering our children and women and is not a crime.
What do you do if you were a Palestinian from Gaza?
“What do you do if you were a Palestinian from Gaza”
Jul 31st, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...have a cigarette and ponder how to emigrate to somewhere better?
@15
Jul 31st, 2014 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would probably take a book to respond to all the points you've raised adequately. The short answer to your question is: leave.
Were that not possible, I hope I would have the guts to oppose Hamas willingness to trade 1000's of lives for the possibility of giving Israel a PR black-eye. There are other ways of winning public opinion that don't involve making hostages ( willing or otherwise ) of your fellow citizens.
There have been informal groups in the past ( some including former IDF members ) who have maintained links with each other ( Palestinian & Israeli ). The second Intifada put these links under tremendous strain, but I would encourage these with all my energy nonetheless.
I would do my best to put the extremist elements of both Israeli's and Palestinians into sharp relief by adopting the opposite attitude to them. I would hope that attitude would be infectious. I would remind myself that regardless of the injustices that my people have suffered, nothing comes close to what Jews endured during the Holocaust and if they could survive so can we.
I would remind myself that Jews & Palestinians are both Semitic people, whose language is so similar that they can easily understand each other. They are cousins. And family disputes are always the most vicious. I would pray for patience.
I've never been shelled by mortars though, or bombed by jets, or shot at with automatic weapons, so in that context my words are meaningless.
@ 13 inthegutter
Jul 31st, 2014 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Arabs in Palestine, and the neighbouring Arab states rejected this and invaded Israeli territory. Israel fought back and won, and conquered more territory (legally dubious given the UN's proscription of territorial expansion).”
The Israelis were not seeking territorial expansion, they were initially defending themselves from the aggressors and chasing the cowards back to where they came from.
“Subsequently Israel fought further wars and conquered the remaining Palestinian Territories.”
And why was that? Anything to do with being constantly attacked by the Islamists perchance?
“Israel began the process of integrating those conquered territories which again is legally dubious.”
Never heard of “you keep what you win” when you are forced into armed conflict and defeat the enemy? Or can you point to a UN vote against Israel over this?
“Both sides are to blame and equally complicit in the ongoing slaughter.”
Here is a truism “in my opinion”: if Hamas put down their arms there would be peace, if Israel put down their arms there would be no Jews left alive.
“during the Insurgency Jewish Paramilitaries murdered hundreds of British Troops and administrators, many veterans of the European theatre.”
That is true and down to the stupidity and cowardice of the British Government when faced with people desperate to get their own ancient lands back. The British backed the wrong people in the Arabs.
As a self-proclaimed scientist, are your written reports and conclusions always short of the whole facts and truth of the matter like you have shown here? I will await your answer before commenting further.
Opinion=
Jul 31st, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some say, if you want peace, get rid of hamas
And let the other two talk peace,
Both may well be guilty of some atrocity or illegal action,
But to be truthful, as we don’t live their, we don’t know both sides, the BBC and America news seem to show different sides,
Hamas want to utterly destroy Israel without question or morals,
And refuse to talk until impossible demands are met,
The ordinary people just want to live in peace, and Israel just wants to be left alone,
Seems to me, that hamas is the problem,
Now then [support ]
Despite the world’s opinion, which is at most laughable, and worst a joke,
The united states of America backs Israel, it supplies money, technology, arms, missiles, advice, and back up, as well as much much more,
Mr Obama can/could put pressure on them to do more, as a matter of fact, I think you will find the Americans are already pulling her back from things she would have by now, already have done,
And a lot worse than you have been seeing,
So the Americans I would say, have influence, but how much is debatable,
After all, you cannot expect Israel, whenever you like them or not, to just sit there and let hamas blow them up all day and every day without doing something.
Just my humble opinion.
..
@ 19 Briton
Jul 31st, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Americans have just announced that they have resupplied Israel with the ammunition the need to carry on their fight against Hamas.
WELL DONE AMERICA.
thanks ChrisR
Jul 31st, 2014 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the American do a lot more behind the scenes than we know,
perhaps only day , Arab and Jews can live in peace,
you never know.......
#18
Jul 31st, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Israelis were not seeking territorial expansion...”
It is true that Israel were largely defending themselves but from day one Israel sought to expand beyond the territory allotted to them by the UN.
“And why was that? Anything to do with being constantly attacked by the Islamists perchance?”
Apart from the fact that Arab nationalism is not the same as Islamism, I agree, Israel was attacked and had a right to defend itself.
“Never heard of “you keep what you win” when you are forced into armed conflict and defeat the enemy? Or can you point to a UN vote against Israel over this?”
You let your self down. The UN charter, which Israel signed, prohibits both the annexation of territory through conflict and occupation and the mass transfer of people into or out of occupied territory. Israel has done both.
Numerous UN GA and SC resolutions condemn Israel's actions (see Wikipedia for a list)
“Here is a truism “in my opinion”: if Hamas put down their arms there would be peace, if Israel put down their arms there would be no Jews left alive.”
I actually kind of agree here - however the status quo (the Israeli blockade of Gaza) and creeping annexation of the West Bank beyond the green line is untenable and illegal.
“That is true and ...”
Oh come on, “ancient lands back” - I can't believe you said that. If you enacted this the entire world would fall apart. Are you seriously suggesting the America's should be depopulated of those of European heritage? The British did not “back the Arabs”, we fought to maintain the status quo (as we often did).
“As a self-proclaimed scientist,...”
I'm a permanent lecturer in a research intensive University, so... It of course would be impossible to list all the arguments and counter arguments here, so I didn't try.
My opinion is that both Israel and a Palestinian state have the right to exist. I support Israel's right to defend itself again the Hamas twats but I also support the right of the Palestinian's to state.
@18
Jul 31st, 2014 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Talk about pot and kettle.
“The British backed the wrong people in the Arabs.”
You have heard, I take it, of the Balfour declaration? The one that gave the green light to Zionist settlement in Palestine during WWI? What the Brits actually did, was to vacillate between Zionists and Arabists until terrorism by both sides made the situation untenable and the Brits (shamefully in my view) left them to fight it out between them. We've recently done pretty much the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq, as it happens.
As for terrorism, it was carried out by both sides but most of it was down to the Zionists. One of the outfits heavily involved in this even tried to make a deal with the Nazis to fight the Brits in Palestine. After WWII it was also responsible for assassinating the UN mediator Count Bernadotte in order to prevent any negotiated peace settlement with the Palestinians. One of the leaders of this outfit subsequently became Prime Minister of Israel. A tough little bastard that Shamir, no doubt about it, but hardly an innocent man of peace.
When Israel independence was declared in 1948, 4 Arab armies intervened in a thoroughly inept manner, seeing the foundation of the state as the culmination of 30 years of terrorism. They lost. None of these armies was Palestinian, since the Palestinians did not have an army. The Palestinians were however either expelled, or became refugees, 700,000 of them against a background of atrocities which are only now being admitted within Israel. (Check out Benny Morris, for example, a dedicated Zionist who is nonetheless not afraid to tell the truth about this period).
At the end of the war, the property of refugees and expulsees was confiscated using legislation left over from the pre-British Ottoman period.
The root cause of the continuing conflict is the fate of these refugees. Currently 1.8 million of them are held in an open air prison and bombarded periodically by land, sea, and air. We're told this is just.
Heisenberg is correct the Israelites and the Philistines (Palestinians) have a common origin, both tribes originally came of of Syria....
Jul 31st, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only difference being religion....
..but the modern day Israelis are not all Israelites they are Jews from all over the world a lot of them are Europeans, whereas the Palestinians are Arabs....
Anyone can become a Jew, but not everyone can become an Arab.....
Incidentally it is a bit of a cheek to claim your Country back after 1800 years.....
....and by what right are they claiming it....because the Bible says that it was promised....(the Jewish bit)... (Torah)...(first 5 books)
It's a strange old world.....
@4 inthegutter you have no clue of what you are talking about the towel heads should be eliminated as all the Islamist terrorist along with the left commies from south America they are a disgrace they should all be eliminated along with Hamas.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even the Arab league does not support Hamas
And the Palestinian deserve what they got for electing a terrorist group to represent them.
How Many people have been killed in south America in the last 10 years of the lefties rule , how about and average of 30,000 people at year just in Venezuela along not to mention the rampant crime in brazil Argentina Ecuador all lefties.
Only 1100 killed in Gaza that is only 3% of the people killed in Venezuela along.
were crime go unpunished like in any other lefty country so bring back the military and start all over again at least they will be eliminating the right people.
so thinko says arabs didn't come from arabia...why am i not surprised.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IMO, I blame those imperialistic spaniard latin types: this is all Hadrian's fault!!
Chuckle chuckle
I think certain people on here are missing at least one point.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What was the area like when Israel had not settled it? I will tell you; more or less a wasteland populated by lazy Arabs who had no interest in it.
Why do they want it back now? Just look at what Israel have done and continue to do with it. You could call it the magic garden.
And what was the response when Israel handed back some part of the land, having flattened all the new houses and removed installations to make it what it was before they had it? Argentinean like howls from the Palestinians of foul and you have destroyed ‘our’ houses, etc ad nauseam.
The Palestinians elected Hamas and did not understand just how cunning they are: altering the constitution so that they can no longer be out of government, etc.
Well they wanted them and they can stand and take the whirlwind that is surely coming. Tough, isn’t it when you make the wrong life choices?
Those Arabs must have been a smart bunch if they were managing to support about 1 million people in a wasteland. How were they doing that? Manna from heaven, maybe? No wonder the Zionists were so keen to get their hands on the place.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reason they want it back, of course, is because it was theirs to begin with. I mean, who wouldn't want their property back if it was taken from them? Failing that, most of them would probably would probably settle for compensation for the expropriation. Kind of like Repsol, to take a recent example. But I don't think anybody really expects Argentine levels of generosity in this particular case. It would also be appreciated, I'm sure, if further expropriations were to stop, e.g in Jerusalem and the West Bank, although there seems to be little hope of that either.
Indeed you're right about one thing though, life can be pretty tough when you're born in the wrong place. Here's a an example from Cast Lead : “On 4 January, Sa'adallah Matar Abu Halima and four of his children were killed in a white phosphorus attack on their home in the Sayafa area in north-west Gaza. His wife Sabah was seriously burned and told Amnesty International that she had watched her baby girl Shahed melt in her arms. Soon after the attack Israeli soldiers shot dead at close range cousins Matar and Muhammad Abu Halima as they tried to take their burned relatives to hospital.”
But looking on the bright side, at least some people find this kind of thing gratifying.
I don't know what the hell the Mercosur has got to do with the Israeli x Hamas conflict, but since the matter was brough up, I've gotta take my hat off to Paraguay for being the only level-headed State in this pathetic group.
Jul 31st, 2014 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@5 & 27 ChrisR, you nailed it !
@7 &15 Brasileiro : it has finally become crystal clear why you hate Israel so much...you are a muzzie !! It goes a long way in explaining why you are such an unhappy, miserable sod.
@29 Jack this is what Paraguay is fighting , this group of idiots do you know that at least two of the Mercosur leaders were in jail for terrorism what do you spec from them they are communist and they bring their dirty politics to a strictly trade union , this is what Paraguay is fighting all along and was suspended from mercosur for impeaching a child molester and a degenerate ex bishop who perform orgies during his presidency (a true Rasputin).
Aug 01st, 2014 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@13, 22, 23, 24 @28.
Aug 01st, 2014 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for contributing actual, factual, specific information to the discussion.
@13, 22, 23, 24 @28 and31 Heisenbergcontext thank you for bringing none sense to the discussion it shows a lack of facts and understanding of your part.
Aug 01st, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0this conflict is going on for 2000 years and is being utilize by the so call leaders of the mercosur like opium to the people, like soccer for every body, a good distraction from their crumbling economies and the ignoramus, poor and the uneducated will follow.
@32
Aug 01st, 2014 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're welcome.
Hahaha, cornelius is the “corno” of the time.
Aug 01st, 2014 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0cornelio should be more respectful of educated people.
@30 Cornelius
Aug 01st, 2014 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yep, I'm aware that Dilma and Mujica are ex-terrorists, that Fernando Lugo was a child molester....the fact that people like them can get to power just reflects negatively on the quality of the people who vote for them....usually the poor and ignorant, who'll follow anyone who throws them a breadcrumb....even if that's all it is.
@34 Brasidiota, when you write “cornelio should be more respectful of 'educated people' ”, you are obviously not including yourself in that category. Get lost numbnuts...
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