MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Malvinas war and the 2001 and 2014 defaults, Argentina's worst mistakes in 33 years
The Falklands/Malvinas war, the 2001 default and the 2014 default are “the three events that are going to go down, in recent Argentina history, as the three worst strategic mistakes committed by the country”, according to political analyst and historian Rosendo Fraga. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI think I'll just sit back now and watch the trolls commit a character assassination on this chap.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's hard to argue with him though. Who can think of any bigger debacles than those three for Argentine governments in living memory?
How long before the old chestnut 'the invasion wasn't us, that was the junta' comes out?
Spot on. Maybe there is hope. Perhaps the current strategy of CFK and her cronies is to be so inept and antagonistic that the new government will be warmly received and be a proper fresh start.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is still hope for a better Argentina. The war was a “mistake”, so good so far. Next thing must be to admit that the whole “Malvinas cause”, which led to the war, is a “mistake” altogether. Just drop the claim and concentrate on more important issues, such as building a prosperous nation!
Aug 04th, 2014 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0The first step to prosperity is to be independent of capitalist bankers and northern nations, who keep claiming one must borrow money if you are a nation-state.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is the biggest myth in the history of the human species, that a nation MUST borrow money. Complete utter bullshit. Before the 19th century nations rarely borrowed any money and the world seem to get along just fine.
Whether the USA, Europe, China, Japan, Australia, Chile, Brazil, Mexico, Uruguay, the rest of Latin America and even Kenya and Congo can borrow is irrelevant. They are the ones getting further into debt with the likes of Singer. Who on Earth would want to borrow from people that have no interest in you succeeding, and who may make more money by deliberately destroying your economy? (ironically the British should know about this when Soros humiliated them in 1992).
It's all a moot point anyway. Argentina has no hope for economy prosperity, or progress. It already had them, and those times are never coming again. We are in terminal decline, just like all nations in history before us have been, and all that exist today will be tomorrow. Simple as that. Plus we have no strategic resources to build wealth with.
No matter if the best political class and president not in Argentina, but the world, were to take power would they be able to revert the economic decline. No one.
The way forward for Argentina is to (i) pay its debts (like everyone else) and (ii) give up its illegitimate Falklands sovereignty claims. @4. Socialism does not work that's why China and Russia adopted 'capitalism.' Even oil rich Venezuela can't keep the lights on or produce enough bum fodder.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5
Aug 04th, 2014 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where did I intimate or state Socialism you tepidly benighted nincompoop?
There is no way forward for Argentina by paying its debts. What if they did pay their debts? Then what? Borrow more debt????
Think about what you morons are saying, would you ever tell an individual in serious debt to pay off the debt and then to borrow some more money???
Idiots.
@4
Aug 04th, 2014 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tobi, in fact you have massive 'strategic resources to build wealth with'. What you don't have is the investment necessary to develop them. The reason you don't have that is because of a track record of atrocious governance, of which this default is only the most recent example. Your decline is terminal only if you allow this to remain true. But of course it's difficult for you to learn from mistakes if you can't accept that you ever made them in the first place.
@6. Capitalism relies on Banking and strict fiscal regulations. Argentina will have pay its debts by restructuring its budgets accordingly. Argentina, because of past records, will find it difficult to borrow money because it is regarded as a pariah state by many international money lenders.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0For: 6 Alistair Nigel (EUian)
Aug 04th, 2014 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “The first step to prosperity is to be independent of capitalist bankers and northern nations, who keep claiming one must borrow money if you are a nation-state.”, et cetera.
At last, some common sense! I couldn’t agree more!!!
Right now, certain parts of the “Southern Cone” are enjoying relative prosperity (including the Falklands Islands) but this favourable state of affairs will last ONLY AS LONG as it suits the supremely avaricious purposes of the International Bankers; who are the whole world’s de facto rulers; not our so-called, ‘democratically elected’ nation-states’ governments.
Not until some political genius finds a way to curb the Big Bankers’ greedy excesses (they’re now so deeply entrenched that it’s a nigh impossible task) will things stand even a cat’s hope in hell of changing for the better.
Cheers!
Jim, in Madrid.
@7
Aug 04th, 2014 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let privates borrow the money and build the infrastructure, if they see it will be worthwhile.
I'd include every election that included a Kirchner in that list.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0A lot of codswallop from Madrid and from Alistair Nigel (EUian) - what immature rubbish!
Aug 04th, 2014 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0@11
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0If they can't rely on the rule of law, or otherwise trust the government, they're not going to take the risk. It all comes down to trust in the end, and why on earth would anybody trust a country which treats default and expropriation as a regular policy option?
@10 But they won't do that in Argentina all the time your acquisitive President is likely to steal their company on a whim when she is a bit short of cash; so, any time.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0For: 8 Brit Bob.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “CAPITALISM RELIES ON BANKING AND STRICT FISCAL REGULATIONS. Argentina will have pay its debts by restructuring its budgets accordingly. Argentina, because of past records, will find it difficult to borrow money because it is regarded as a pariah state by many international money lenders.”
Sorry Bob. But you’ve just written the most ridiculous statement I’ve read in years’!!!
For, thanks to their own irresponsibility, negligence, ineptitude and in some cases, deliberate criminality, THE BIG BANKERS PRECIPITATED THE 2008 CRASH, THEMSELVES.
BUT THE THE INTERNATIONAL BIG BANKERS WERE NOT HOUNDED DOWN AND FORCED TO PAY THEIR DEBTS. INSTEAD, THEY WERE BAILED-OUT BY THE WORLD’S TAXPAYERS AND ITS WORKING-CLASS; ALL OF WHOM HAVE SEEN THEIR REDUCTION IN THEIR REAL INCOMES AND MANY OF WHOM HAVE COMPLETELY LOST THEIR JOBS, FOREVER! MEANWHILE, THE VERY PEOPLE WHO’S INSATIABLE GREED CAUSED THE GREATEST FINANCIAL DISASTER SINCE 1929, HAVE –AS USUAL– ESCAPED SCOT-FREE, AND IN THE MOST CASES ARE EVEN MORE EXCESSIVELY WEALTHY TODAY THAN THEY WERE IN 2007.
SO WHERE DO THE FACTS ABOVE LEAVE YOUR “STRICT FISCAL REGULATIONS”? Heads, they the Big Banks, win. Tails, we the public at large lose!!!
I’m certainly not against hard work and honest trade, but today’s euphemism, “Free Market”, tries to hide this fundamental truth, “A market in which the ultra-privileged rich are given a FREE hand to rob the plebs by just about any method whatsoever, including the employment of virtually slave labour. For Christ’s sake! The present world trading system is like summat from a contemporary psychedelic version of “Alice in Wonderland”, written by a crazed, latter day Lewis Carroll on Crack…
Cheers!
Jim, in Madrid.
When Argentina pays its debts then they can move on. All the future investments that Argentina gets will be with contracts signed under US or UK law, no-one is going to invest under Argentinian law ( if such a thing exists ) so you all better suck it up. The Kirchers have already sucked Argentina dry.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@4. I'm glad to see that you recognise that you're dead meat. I'm reminded that, in the years following 1945, Germany got some assistance from capitalist bankers and northern nations. Despite having suffered a crushing defeat, Germany understood where it had gone wrong and made a conscious decision not to make those mistakes again. A few months later much the same happened with Japan. But I wouldn't want to undermine your sense of hopelessness. Argies and argieland don't have enough nous to realise when they've got it wrong, nor the courage to admit it. Goodbye argieland. You will not be missed!
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0it is the Kircher government that will not accept they have it wrong. They have to at all costs save face. Can't be seen to do anything wrong.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0No strategic resources in Argentina???
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0More like no common sense.
40m people in a massive resource rich land and all they can do is bounce from one crisis to the next. You're a shambles and will always be a shambles until you sort out your politics.
what a stupid comment, about letting privates build infrastructure.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why would private finances / business invest in a country where its not uncommon for the state to just take away the company at a cost it makes up.
Not only from its own people but from foreign investors too. Take the oil investment, trumped up CFK says not enough investment, so she swiped the company. Gives everyone alot of faith of investing in the future.
Argentina has a lot of natural resources, just no brains in how to sort them out or the money to invest.
By paying their debts, and they do have the money, it would show that they are making an effort.
Oh and Alastair (Euian), you really do make me laugh, with your fakes profiles and funny ways, you should be on the stage
I like this Fraga guy, he has balls bigger than TMBOA's head and that's massive!
Aug 04th, 2014 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0How much longer will he live though when La Camping It Up get hold of him for denegrating the 'Glorious Motherland'.
The response of the indoctrinated masses will be very much like the child TIT and as for The Idiot From Madrid he has clearly lost what few marbles he once had.
@20 Vulcanbomber,
Aug 04th, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0EUian should be on the stage(coach) all right,
The first one out of town.
For:12 gordo1
Aug 04th, 2014 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “A lot of codswallop from Madrid and from Alistair Nigel (EUian) - what immature rubbish!”
A quintessentially characteristic response from a typical member of the undereducated chattering classes, who are constantly brainwashed by the Capitalist funded, intellectual rabblerousing Red Tops…
JUST FORGET THE FRIGGIN’ FACTS and wade-in with any old wild-eyed, wishfully thought-through pseudo philosophy convenient to purposes of our International Capitalist Fat Controllers.
Cheers!
Jim, in Madrid.
Jim, in Madrid, some good comments about global capitalism, I believe its broken only because it has become more socialist, socialist for the banksters. Privatise the profits, socialise the losses. Corporatism I have heard it referred to as. But Argentina in its current political landscape is isolating itself from the rest of the world, do you think this is the way to prosperity?
Aug 04th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I was saying a few days ago, Argentina would never have made the mistakes it made just now, in 2001, in 1982, etc., had any of the following happened differently in its history:
Aug 04th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) the British manage to take over Buenos Aires in their invasions in 1806-07. No, this is not a case of “para ingles ver”, because what we're talking about is that the British and Irish settlers pour into Argentina in such a world like they do in the United States, Canada, Australia, etc. and both the settlers and the British government bring in British institutions of common law, more equal land ownership, civil society, etc. The Spanish people that are remaining get absorbed into that society but keep their laws and religion (no different than the Quebecois or the Afrikaners), even though at times they might be in conflict with the British. This produces a society where British investment (e.g. railroads) was not direct like it was in real-life Argentina and thus vulnerable to nationalist attacks by demagogues like Peron, but rather (as in Canada or Australia) which was indirect and rail companies and so forth would have been owned by Argentines and headquartered in Buenos Aires rather than London. The end result is that Argentina would be a developed country like Canada or Australia and not the basket case it's been these past decades. A member of the G8/G9 and not of the G77. Not to mention that the Falklands would indisputably belong to Argentina (and they would normally not be called the Malvinas in Spanish), given that Argentina would have been a British colony in that case, and there would not have been a war there in 1982!
2) rural lands get distributed more equally in the early 1900s than in real life
3) no coup in 1930
4) Roberto Ortiz's diabetes holds off ca. 1940 and he can remain president and carry on his non-corrupt policies (and perhaps Peron doesn't take over in 1945)
5) CFK doesn't become presidenta in 2007, and someone more capable is elected instead
COME ON ROSENDO!!!!!! Are you seriously talking to us? 2014 “default” IS NOT AN ARGENTINA'S mistake AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!! Please, don't act as a Cipayo! Sorry, it was too late, you are one of them.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 How long have you been living in Madrid? I won't say that Rajoy has been an excellent Presidente del Gobierno but what a mess he inherited from the Socialists before him - but then you support that lot of bunglers, don't you?
Aug 04th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26
Aug 04th, 2014 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you saying that Argentina didn't borrow an enormous amount of money and THEY DID PAY IT BACK? Of course it is your fault, name calling will not make any difference, it might be the Argentinian way, but water off a ducks back to us.Unless someone speaks out the truth you will keep sinking in the mire. Your choice.
For: 21 ChrisR
Aug 04th, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “The response of the indoctrinated masses will be very much like the child TIT and as for The Idiot From Madrid he has clearly lost what few marbles he once had.”
Kindly allow me to correct on a matter of FACT –summat that unfortunately has far too little currency on these pages…
I am not the The Idiot From Madrid but the idiotic Briton and former professional British soldier who now resides in Madrid.
You Sir, are yet another of the ‘Brutish’ idiots who, along with our Football Hooligans, have given our race such bad press! And if you fail to see the true facts concerning International Capitalism’s current unimpeded operational malpractices, then you are even less intelligent than I’d thought…
Incidentally, it’s not too long ago that the FCO thought that the Falkand Islands were a bit of a friggin’ nuisance and that the Kelpers didn’t even merit FULL British citizenship (in exactly the same that way UK Govt. treated its loyal, long serving HongKongers whom it left –if they couldn’t AFFORD to PAY to escape to Western Canada– to fall into Chinese hands)
However, now that it’s ALMOST certain the Falkands’ territorial waters cover large deposits of hydrocarbons, the BIG BANKS HAVE TAKEN OVER and –for the present– everything the garden is rosy. But mark my words, “The Big Banks will RAPIDLY exploit the said reserves to suit their own selfish ends, and certainly NOT ACT IN THE BEST LONG-TERM INTEREST OF THE KELPERS, and the Big Bankers’ smiles will suddenly disappear just as soon the local fuel reserves are inevitably exhausted!!!
Finally mark this, too: “He who trusts almost any politician IS THE TRUE IDIOT!!!”
Jim, in Madrid.
@15 Jim in Madrid
Aug 04th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.dw.de/argentina-to-repay-billions-in-debt/a-17670891
'Argentina has agreed to pay back billions of dollars to the Paris Club, a group of mostly western creditors. The deal should help Latin America's No3 economy ''shake its pariah status''.
A pariah state is a nation which is considered to be out of line with international norms of behaviour by the international community.
Hope this helps.
Did the Paris club take a 72% haircut?
Aug 04th, 2014 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(9), (15), (23) & (29) Jim Handley, Briton extraordinaire and former professional British soldier who now resides in Madrid...
Aug 04th, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jim, I “Think” this could be the beginning of a beautiful ......... :-)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vY-4zWKsJM
To add some arguments in the same direction of Fraga's comments a few days ago talking over the phone with a friend of mine in Argentina we both came to the conclussion that, unfortunately, we have been living in the worst times in the history of Argentina.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In its 200 year's history the last four decades have been, together, the worst time for Argentina as a country.
The end of the Peronist government of Isabel Perón, the government of the military junta, the FI War, the harsh trascicón from military dictatorship to democracy (the Presidency of Raúl Alfonsin) and the two Peronist decades have left the country bankrupt economically, politically isolated and morally emptied (as a society).
I must admit that Raúl Alfonsín was a “ethic and moral master” compared to the previous and latter presidents, either militar or peronists presidents.
Loosing four decades is too much, it is time to see some reaction of from the country ruling class.....otherwise the decandence will be even worse.
Accurate article.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said Jim in Madrid.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are a lot of very sick people on this site.
Young Argie Turnip at (33)
Aug 04th, 2014 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree 75% with your above comment...:
The three past decades starting in 1974 with the fascist government of Lopez Rega (Isabel Perón), continuing with the 1976-1983 military junta, the 1982 Malvinas War, the weak and threatened trasition to democracy under Raúl Alfonsin and the Neo-Liberal/Pseudo-Peronist admimistration of Mr. Menem left our country economically bankrupt, politically isolated and morally emptied...
Luckily, the reaction of out Country's ruling class during the last decade has been...., all things equal...., the absolute best in this old Argie citizen's loooong memory...
For: 24 Wallace
Aug 04th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “… some good comments about global capitalism, I believe its broken only because it has become more socialist, socialist for the banksters. Privatise the profits, socialise the losses. Corporatism I have heard it referred to as. But Argentina in its current political landscape is isolating itself from the rest of the world, do you think this is the way to prosperity?”
The present corrupt BA Govt. is just as bad as the Bankers with whom it's in dispute –“Birds of a feather flock together”…
For: 27 gordo1, 28 golfcronie & 30 Brit Bob.
Do learn to read. I’m not denying Argentina borrowed money nor am I saying that I support the actions of incompetent/dishonest politicians –neither the so-called champagne socialists nor their nominally rightwing adversaries, MOST of whom emanate from pretty much the same set of megalomaniac wenkars and are financed by International Big Business, anyway. I’m simply reiterating the SELF-EVIDENT FRIGGIN’ FACT that Multinational Bankers have excessive power, which they wield antisocially.
Cheers!
Jim, in Madrid.
Jim Handley
Aug 04th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sorry but you are misinformed.
In 1983, the British government (as opposed to the FCO) showed without any doubt the importance of defending the rights of the Falkland Islanders.
This was almost immediately after there were discussions around sovereignty with Argentina, as britain sought to find the correct solution for its remaining territories.
The events that mean that the Falkland Islands could never be Argentine are associated with the invasion ansd subsequent behaviour of the Republic of Argentina. Unsurprisingly, the islanders dont wish to become part of a country who would use them as a human shield or plant unmapped minefields around their homes. Unsurprisingly, the islanders dont want to be part of a country that labels them squatters, lies about their history to whomever will listen, and would steal their homes and their livelihoods...funny that.
So britians defence of the islanders rights considerably predates the exploration for hydrocarbons, and predates the discovery of hydrocarbons by 27 years. So to suggest the British position, is in someway affected by the discoveries in 2010 should be beneath you....clearly not.
The BIG BANKS as you put it, have almost nothing to do with the hydrocarbon industry in the Falklands or what the Falkland Islanders do with the revenue...again, it is more a case of your over anxious imagination.
The 26% revenue that the Falkland Islands government will receive from the oil companies is theirs to invest as they see fit. With an electorate of only 1500, it is hard to see how your paranoia about big banks would be realised.
Or perhaps you believe the islanders are so stupid, they will be duped into investing their money in areas that they dont wish too.
With the best part of 600 million barrels already discovered and a potential revenue to the islands of something like $5m per “kelper” over 30 years...its hard to see how your mythical Big banks will steal it from the poor Kelpers.
@4 Alistair Nigel (EUian)
Aug 04th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seem to be missing the point somewhat.
This is not about Argentina borrowing more money (that is probably out of the question for the foreseeable future), it’s about Argentina paying back what it already owes.
Once that is done you are free to disappear up your own arseholes, as far as even the likes of Singer are concerned.
Otherwise I suspect he will continue his campaign against you. Ultimately there is only going to be one winner, he is clever and your gov is not. No contest, whatever the morality of the issue.
@15 JimHandley
I agree with much of what you say, however I do think it is important to distinguish between the financial crisis of the banks and the sovereign debt of governments, the debts being the cause of most austerity measures.
It wasn’t the bankers that ran up national debts when credit was cheap, it was governments, who then had problems trying to finance it when the cheap credit ended, as a result of the banking crisis.
The banking crisis only exposed Greece’s financial position, it did not create it successive Greek governments did.
For: 38 Monkeymagic.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “I am sorry but you are misinformed.”, et cetera, et cetera.
You’re dreaming, Mate. So give me back my joint and roll one for yourself!
The moment that the Falklands become a burden on the UK’s Exchequer, Britain will do next to nothing to help. Even it wished to do summat “relevant” it just couldn’t afford to do so. Do you not see what’s happening over Gibraltar? 1983 was a mixture of a last hurrah and a hydrocarbons induced hallucination of Empire.
@ 29 JimHandley
Aug 04th, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And if you fail to see the true facts concerning International Capitalism’s current unimpeded operational malpractices, then you are even less intelligent than I’d thought…”
Mmmm. So it was the Bankers, eh?
WRONG, it was the politicians who allowed them to capitalise the profits and socialise the losses because (in their myopic view) the banks were too big to fail.
It was The Cunt Brown © Jeremy Clarkson 2010 that started this nonsense when the interfered with the demise of Northern Rock BS due to mismanagement and over-extending themselves ALL because of his 6,000 New Labour voters who worked there. They even called him “The Saviour of The World”. For me he should have been nailed to a cross in the Square Mile.
Don’t forget the Yanks involvement (some would say they caused the world-wide collapse) and the equally cowardly actions in supporting these institutions that mustn’t fail.
Of course they could have failed and SHOULD have failed. In that way the true nature of the free market would have prevailed. Yes, the shareholders of the banks would have lost their money (but that’s their gamble) but others would have stepped in and bought the real assets and started afresh. There would have been much less massive long-term sovereign debt. The people who took the risk on these businesses would have had their losses limited to what they paid for them but WE would not have been ripped off. Instead we have to bail out the government debt: the money THEY let the bankers off with.
I suspect that you have never invested in the international markets: I have and the one thing you NEVER do, if you have half a brain that is, is risk money that you cannot afford to lose.
Governments of course do not risk their money, they risk ours.
And I haven’t even touched the malignant effect that the Banks gambling arms have had on things.
I see you have impressed El Think aka The Lunatic of Chew Butt: now that IS a friendship made in hell. Enjoy!
Except for the likes of Frank Skinner or Tony Benn etc politics is overwhelmingly about selling an idea for an expected political or financial return.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If something will probably cost a politician or government more than they invest they wont support it.
Argentina iniciated the argy-bargy in 82 but the campaign to recover the islands was 100% weighed up politically without considering the feelings of the island population.
The Islanders themselves are not that important to the British government. How could they be?
@37 Jim in Madrid
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Capitalism relies on banking and ''strict'' fiscal regulation' Obviously, the rules regarding 'strict' fiscal regulation' were not followed in 2008 and this helped to bring about the banking crisis.
The fact that Argentina has now defaulted twice, a fault of its own making, will make it more expensive for it to borrow money. Hence, the country is regarded as a 'pariah state' by some international money lenders.
DENNIS Skinner MP retired. Not the comedian
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People are willing to blame the banks or politicians but why dont people blame people?!
The banks behaved recklessly and greedily
The politicians behaved recklessly and greedily
The 'People' taking on masses of cheap credit behaved recklessly and greedily
(40) Jim Handley
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't “Bogart” that joint, me friend.... pass it over to me...;-)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XhDpSgHrs
@36 Think
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me know the day you would like to discuss with me about the ideological origins, past, present and future of Peronism. In the meanwhile you will always run away from any rational discussion and you will always insult those who think differently. It's quite clear since you ARE a fascist so you cannot stand different point of views.
Please, enjoy the default and the new collapse of Argentina...it is another peronist masterwork !!!!!
For: 41 ChrisR.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “… Mmmm. So it was the Bankers, eh? …”, et cetera.
You’re absolutely right, except for one supremely important detail.
To be able to function in today’s Big Business dominated, artificially created “Market Forces” world, all our political parties must use the capitalist controlled, terribly expensive Mass Media, in order to get their messages across to the chattering-class voters. And who lends the politicians the money to do so? And if a politician steps too far out of the established capitalist line, who makes bloody sure he gets a bad press? The friggin’ Bankers, of course!
Cheers!
Jim, in Madrid.
Turnip at (46)
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, laddie... I interact as little as possible with Turnips, you know...
Turnipidity COULD be contagious...
@48
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your quite safe amongst us, intelligence is not contagious.
You won’t catch it.
@48
Aug 04th, 2014 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I can imagine....anyway enjoy the default, the payment of “YPF Repsol” bonds, the Paris Club new payment arrangements, the Chevron “investments”, the 40% of inflation, the crime rate, the unemployment, the recession, the taxes, the “new” public services fares, the corruption...ENJOY IT !!!
It's entirely a CFK, and peronist, masterpiece....
(47) Jim Handley
Aug 04th, 2014 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It sounds as if you are referring to Murdochracy...
Don't worry.... Most Anglos in here are excellently informed about the World situation by such a broad and independent selection of media as The Sun, The Times, The Wall Street Journal and Fox News.....
;-)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-04/argentina-default-minor-real-problem-much-worse
Aug 04th, 2014 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Default is a minor problem - the real problems are much worse.
Run!
http://www.cracked.com/article_15643_5-scientific-reasons-zombie-apocalypse-could-actually-happen.html
Aug 04th, 2014 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Default is a minor problem - the real problems are much worse.
Run!
Hes almost correct: -
Aug 04th, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. They started a war on the British.
2. They tried to steal from Americans.
Argentina is obviously a Turnip nation populated by vegetables.
Think is unconciously revealing his Scotch roots once again. Chuckle Chuckle…
For: 39 Pugol-H.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “… it is important to distinguish between the financial crisis of the banks and the sovereign debt of governments, …”
To me that statement is simply “Conventional Economists’ Speak”. That’s to say a sort of techno babble, so often uttered specifically to get the Bankers’ off the hook. The financiers knew EXACTLY what was happening and they deliberately accelerated low interest lending, simply to serve their own short-term purposes. And, as I’m tired of saying, the Bankers got away scot-free of the consequences of the enormous problem they consciously created for society at large. And most Bankers are more bloatedly wealthy today than ever. Furthermore, in the case of Greece, wasn’t it Goldman Sachs who lied about the state of that country’s finances, in order to support the Greek application for EU membership? And the German auto makers who exported so many luxury motorcars to Greece MUST have known what was REALLY going-on. I refuse to believe that a fellow could have been clever enough to manage a firm of the magnitude of Daimler Benz (Mercedes) yet –at the same time– that he and his Bankers could have been so stupid as not to know that the Greek government was fiddling its books with the superb virtuosity of a youthful Yehudi Menuhin! What they ALL almost certainly DID know is –that when the inevitable crash came– the taxpayer would have NO OTHER OPTION than to SAVE THE BANKERS’ BACON and of course, that of their Big Business and political cohorts.
As youngster, I never had the inclination to study “matters esoteric” such as Economy. Instead, I opted for Physics, a harsh, disciplinarian Mistress who DEMANDS silly little details such as PROOF, EVIDENCE and FACT.
Anyone who’s not quite a complete cretin can easily see the FACT that modern capitalism is consuming natural resources and collaterally, contaminating the environment, at a totally unsustainable pace, and –if only for that reason– it is BOUND TO FAIL.
Cheers!
Jim, in Madrid.
(55) Jim Handley
Aug 04th, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you like Yehudi's fiddling too...!
Pity your'e not a Jane...
I'd ask you out... ;-)
ooooo! this is fun! what a complete bitch-slap bun-fight!
Aug 04th, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*popcorn/glass of wine/ armchair*
As you were!
*munch/swig/ease back*
:)
And.... commence!
@45 Think,
Aug 04th, 2014 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what would you know about “joints”, Think, old chap?
Been trying to re-live your youth?
Maybe there's hope for you yet. lol!
@ 12 gordo1
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Alistair Nigel (EUian)” is in fact poor idiot child Tobias from Mendoza - he has lived about 21 years, but has a mental age of a 6 years old child ... or 5 years?
@23 & 29. Do try to remember that you're a traitor and your comments are of no worth. “former professional British soldier who now resides in Madrid”. So you're not professional. You're a dick that used to hold a rifle. Bet you used to think you should be in command. Love to see where the BIG BANKS come in. Like anyone would wait for you to divvy up. This is a bit of reach, but I'll put a few pence on you having been dishonourably discharged. Snaffling NAAFI funds? Cowardice in the face of the enemy?
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@40. Hello. Who's a prick? Her Majesty's Government “invests” to the extent of 1200 troops, 4 combat aircraft, 2 helicopters, a tanker aircraft and a tactical air transport. As well as a couple of warships and the occasional submarine. It's so much of a “drain” that the people of Britain would gladly double it. Do you pay taxes? To whom?
@48. Then shut your f*****g face.
(58) Chère Isolde
Aug 05th, 2014 - 04:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be jealous, dahling...
I'd ask you out to if you were a bit more mature. (+30 years or so...;-)
Don't despair though...
“Dum Spiro Spero”
Yours truly.
El Think.
The headline says it all - RG land's worst mistakes - the Falklands war and the two financial defaults. Quite right. And some of the turnips arguing in this forum are trying to blame RG land's financial woes on everyone else - if you borrow money you have to repay your debts. Simple economics.
Aug 05th, 2014 - 04:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0@61 Think, baby,
Aug 05th, 2014 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ask as much as you like but l wouldn't go.
l'm not only happily married, but l also have standards, don't you know?
That wasn't the question deflecting Think.
Are you a friend of MaryJane now?
lt might improve you(giggle).
Jim you make some sound points regarding bankers placing there loses on the public coffers.
Aug 05th, 2014 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Iceland had it all worked out. They said, not my debt, now fook off. If people were more inclined to stand up for law, and hold hose accountable who gamble and cheat the world would be a much better place.
Think, the comment about Anglos not being aware of what's really going on is massively predjudice on our part. A large part of the British populace is awake. Never forget the Magna Carta came from these fine shores.
There is only so much Brits can take before we snap and put fascists, socialists (bankers), and Nazi scum back down where they came from.
The biggest task is how to avoid another world war if we the people are I catch these crooks and hold them accountable for the destruction they have caused.
Song entertainment produced a great documentary abou 2008 called inside job. Watch it people. Another great one is a little old know but is called the Money Masters. It's a full academic breakdown of the fractional reserve banking system.
Either way I'd recommended a viewing just for increased knowledge.
64) Jollygoodfun
Aug 05th, 2014 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Mr. Handley does indeed make some sound points... As to be expected from most cultivated Englishmen...
2) Iceland did indeed worked it all out... As we Argies are doing...
Before you start mentioning corrupt and thieving Argies, may I suggest you Google the words “Blindaje” and “Megacanje” .... just for you to understand how the Argentinean Foreign debt could “magically” triplicate from ~ 40 to ~120 billion Dollars during 2001 without any money entering Argentina....
3) If you took some time to reread my comment (51) about “Anglos not being aware of what's really going on”, you would notice that I was specifically targeting “MOST ANGLOS IN HERE”, not Anglos in general...
Anyhow........., I thought you were a Scot.
4) Ahhhh........ The Magna Carta principles.......
Lived by my ancestors since about year 500 AD (with the slight difference that they also included Freewomen on them) and taken to the British Islands on their Drakkar Cruise Ships...;-)
@55 JimHandley
Aug 05th, 2014 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I studied chemistry, which requires 3D thinking.
In the front of the text book it had a quote, Mark Twain I think, “you cannot depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus”.
Or is that too esoteric for you.
60 Conqueror.
Aug 05th, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “@23 & 29. Do try to remember that you're a traitor and your comments are of no worth.”, et cetera.
Judging by the vitriolic, emotive invective of your “disturbed” reply –yet another of your insulting, infantile diatribes, completely extent of any rational logic– I’m not entirely worthless, because I’m still good enough to instantly wind YOU up into a childish tantrum...
Speaking of “traitors”, your own attitude towards what is now euphemistically termed “conflict resolution” is somewhat destructive, to say the least. If you were given charge of Britain’s Military (God forbid!) we should soon find ourselves accused of war crimes. For your medieval “Conqueror” method of immediately beating nine kinds of faeces out anyone who happens not to agree with your own narrow-minded, 19th century imperialist’s criteria (you’re as bad as all the old BA junta, rolled up into one) is no longer thought politically correct –or haven’t you heard yet? Perhaps you should try to get yourself seconded to one of Mr Putin’s platoons. He seems in need of fellows of your unthinkingly destructive ilk. On the other hand, Mr Bigmouth, maybe your walk ain’t QUITE as good as your talk???
Cheers!
Jim in Madrid.
Shrinkhead is quoting myths as usual:
Aug 05th, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“how the Argentinean Foreign debt could “magically” triplicate from ~ 40 to ~120 billion Dollars during 2001 without any money entering Argentina”
It did not.
In 1976 Argentina's sovereign debt was app 8 billion dollars.
In 1983 the dictaturship had added between 32 and 37 billion to a maximum of 45 billion.
At the end of the years
1990: 57,582
1995: 87,772
1999: 121,877
2000: 128,018
2001 December 26: 144,453 on the day of the previous default.
No magic, only mismanagement, graft, theft, corruption, ...
Jollygoodfun:
Aug 05th, 2014 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As think quite clearly stated, if you took the time too look away from the fact that his nation is a shit hole that has set the record for defaults in a decade you might agree with him.
If you was drunk. Truth is Think is an old turd who will never see his beloved islands returned even if they were to be returned next week as he is likely to decompose next week.
68 Don Alberto.
Aug 05th, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: > et cetera.
Recently, someone quoted FISCAL DISCIPLINE (or words to that effect) on these very pages.
So, given successive Argentinean Govt.’s ALLEGED fiscal incompetence and downright dishonesty, it seems illogical and incomprehensible that consecutive lenders have apparently persisted in irretrievably chucking ever more money into a bottomless pit.
From what we all know of Bankers, they NEVER THROW CASH AWAY! So all this malarkey is almost certainly the product of yet more manipulation of the International Money Market, that’s dominated by relatively few powerful international financiers –even if it’s simply in the corruption’s classic form – that of large brown envelopes, stuffed with used banknotes being clandestinely passed around among friends.
I never put much faith in CONVENTIONAL Economists’ figures for they are seldom adjusted for deflation/inflation. And as far as I can see, they never offer any meaningful account of the effect LOCAL prices for BASIC foodstuffs and fuel –thus and to take just one pertinent example– a Third World country with large, easily recoverable mineral resources, may APPARENTLY enjoy the fruits of a booming economy. But my question here is, “How much of the said country’s wealth goes to foreign investors and tobthe local economic elite? And how much goes to the poverty stricken plebs? Furthermore, most CONVENTIONAL Economists are no more than handsomely remunerated “exculpatory mouthpieces” for their Multinational bosses’ multiple, malign misdemeanours.
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
perhaps someone can suggest this sensible Argentinian for president, I am sure he could sort the problems out, after all, he seems to understand the Falklands issue immediately and he has at least visited
Aug 06th, 2014 - 07:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8KOkYjpl2E
@ Jim in Madrid. Reference the 'Argentine governments alleged fiscal incompetence and downright dishonesty'. Well two defaults, INDEC lying about growth and inflation statistics (according to the IMF) and 106th position in the Global Corruption Index while neighbours Chile and Uruguay are rated around 20th position, says a lot.
Aug 06th, 2014 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0For Everyone,
Aug 06th, 2014 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do have a look at this:
http://www.social-europe.eu/2014/07/corporate-nationality/
To read many more informative articles about what’s REALLY happening in International Economics, et cetera, sign-up to “Social Europe Journal”, here:
http://www.social-europe.eu/2014/07/corporate-nationality/
For: 25 yd1982.
Re: “…more equal land ownership…”, et cetera.
I’m afraid that your extensive missive is in nothing more than a cloud cuckoo land compendium of spuriously speculative, utter claptrap and that it would take me much too long to make a detailed dismissal of its many errors, here.
So let’s just take one of your daft observations…
Summat CAN NOT be MORE/LESS equal. It must be EQUAL or UNEQUAL, end of story. However, if you meant what I think you meant, you’re quite wrong, again. For proof of your misassumption, have a shufti at this article published in the blatantly right wing, anti-socialist Daily Mail:
http://www.social-europe.eu/2014/07/corporate-nationality/
Furthermore, British middle/working-class home ownership ain’t EXACTLY what it sounds, for usually, the house in question is actually owned by a BANK, during many, many years of the purchaser’s lifetime. And during that time, the buyer pays a high rate of interest to the lender. But the Banks weren’t satisfied with that simple, satisfactory arrangement. Oh no! They had to dishonestly/criminally create an artificial “housing bubble” which when it burst, brought the entire world’s economy to the brink of collapse –a disaster only averted at huge cost to the modest, LAW-ABIDING taxpaying-classes. How is it that so many who Post on these pages are apparently incapable of grasping this SIMPLE fact???
Of course, in the UK the Bankers’ recent ultra-avarice was amply facilitated by the fact that successive UK Govt.’s have deliberate not built sufficient social housing, for to do so would have reduced the artificially inflated prices of already existing properties –prices which were being u
I have said that for years. The Falklands war was Argentina´s worst mistake from the XX century, only followed in harm by the uprise of the peronist party.
Aug 06th, 2014 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0PART 2 of 2 & 72 Brit Bob.
Aug 06th, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course, in the UK the Bankers’ recent ultra-avarice was amply facilitated by the fact that successive UK Govt.’s have deliberately not built sufficient social housing. For to do so would have reduced the purposefully artificially inflated prices of already existing properties –“phantom” prices NOT BACKED BY TANGIBLE ASSETS, which were being used by cynical Bankers and their devious cohorts in the Govt. of the day, to FICTITIOUSLY give the impression of a universally beneficent, ever-expanding British economy.
For: 72 Brit Bob.
Re: “Reference the 'Argentine governments alleged fiscal incompetence and downright dishonesty'. Well two defaults, INDEC lying about growth and inflation statistics (according to the IMF) and 106th position in the Global Corruption Index while neighbours Chile and Uruguay are rated around 20th position, says a lot.”
You’re right of course, and that’s just my point –furthermore, for as long as I can remember. Argentina has been misgoverned by a succession of brutal dictators and/or outrageous crooks.
So why do the Big International Bankers PERSIST in lending money to Argentinean rulers?
Sadly, I can think of only one possible motive –and that’s CROOKED, too.
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
Mr. Know-all Fraga is close, this time, to squaring the circle.
Aug 06th, 2014 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
75. Are you sure you aren't Argentinian? Are you seriously trying to say its the banks fault for lending to a known deadbeat scofflaw?
Aug 06th, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Idiot.
@ 70 JimHandley
Aug 06th, 2014 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Institutional investors app 56% of value (app 45 830 million)
Retail investors app 44% of value (app 36 000 million)
There were (according to Argentine sources) more than 500 000 bond holders.
Argentina robbed these more than 500 000 pensioners and other retail investors of more than US$ 62 400 000 000. The hedge funds rob peanuts in comparison.
38.4 percent of the debt was held by retail investors, mostly very ordinary people saving for their pensions, people like
People like Giannandrea Leonardi, whose family inherited 115,000 euros worth of bonds that his father bought in 1998.
Egidio Rolich, 59, who bought about 40,000 euros of Argentine bonds in 1998 with the proceeds from the sale of an apartment and his wife’s severance pay.
Stefan Bauer, owner of bonds valued € 267,000 (US$ 347,100) and Hank van Blokland, € 30,200 (US$ 39,200) and Ricarda Böhme, € 47,000 (US$ 61,100).
Jim in Madrid
Aug 06th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You highlighted 'ALLEGED' I am right of course.
Correction to #78
Aug 06th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For “38.4 percent of the debt was held by retail investors ...”
Read: “38.4 percent of the debt was held by Argentine retail investors, mostly very ordinary people saving for their pensions, people like”
An equally impressive mistake would be Cretina's administration followed by that of Elvis Kissoff's
Aug 06th, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hello Everyone,
Aug 06th, 2014 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: Argentina’s default.
I take the point that many relatively modest investors have lost their life’s savings.
Put another way, a substantial number of PERHAPS A LITTLE TOO GREEDY members of the Western World’s middleclass, financially unsophisticated, stock market punters has been swindled by a bunch mendacious Argentinean megalomaniacs, thanks to the intermediation of certain Investment Bankers.
But who’s aggressive press advertising, persistent visual media publicity and suave in-branch sales talk cajoled those very same investors to gamble away their hard-come-by cash on International Casino Banking’s rigged tables?
I offer no prize for the correct answer!
So as far as I see things, the BANKS implicated in this apparent fraud, have BEEN PAID their commissions, et cetera (and who knows just what other clandestine “perks”) and LOST NONE of their OWN money. Rather, the money LOST is that of the BANKS’ all too trusting CUSTOMERS.
And thanks to our democratically elected lawmakers, all that was done legally and everyone is happy –EXCEPT THOSE WHO’VE BEEN PATENTLY DUPED, OF COURSE, because for the relevant Bankers to claim that they didn’t know what would be the likely outcome of the matter in question, would be downright bloody ludicrous.
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
@ 82 JimHandley
Aug 07th, 2014 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Put another way, a substantial number of ... stock market punters ”
Wrong.
The majority of bond holders were not stock market punters, they were little-people saving up for their pensions.
In contrast to e.g. shares, bonds are contracts, **obligations to pay** a specified amount at a specified date.
When the economy fails it is common to roll bonds forward with a change in maturity date, at times debtor and creditors negociate a haircut of 20-30 or perhaps even 50 percent and/or a lower interest.
Argentina did not negociate. Argentina gave the bond holders the kind of offer, you see in “Godfather”: accept a 70-75 percent loss of your pension or get nothing.
For: 83 Don Alberto.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “The majority of bond holders were not stock market punters, they were little-people saving up for their pensions.”
Sorry, but you’re using different words to say EXACTLY the same thing as yours truly (I used the term STOCK MARKET in its broad sense –after all, one doesn’t buy Govt. Bonds, et cetera, at the friggin’ butcher’s shop!) and of course on this Site, one is limited in that the Max. Word Count, doesn’t permit one to go into too much exquisite, technical detail.
As far as the term PUNTERS goes… The unfortunate individuals to whom you refer, chose –probably on Bankers’ advice– to invest in a relatively RISKY, HIGH RETURN, Financial Markets’ option, rather than to put their money into a COMPARATIVELY SAFE, LOW RETURN alternative, of which they are many –but selling them to fiscally uninformed, avaricious little people DOES NOT MAKE ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH EASY MONEY FOR THE BANKERS, of course.
To INVEST is to SPECULATE or to GAMBLE and those who GAMBLE are only TOO HAPPY when –often at the cost of ill-fated others– they WIN.
However, now that your proxy protégé INVESTORS-cum-GAMBLERS have LOST, they are naturally furious and trying to get restitution –again, probably on the advice of splendidly remunerated financial lawyers!!!
Moral, “Don’t take the rent money (life’s savings) to the racetrack!!!”
So do please spare me the cannily euphemistic, Economists’ deliberately arcane procedural jargon, in your futile attempt to justify what is obviously yet another prima facie case of Bankers’ dishonesty/incompetent/negligence, in the face popular gullibility.
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
@ 84 JimHandley
Aug 07th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“after all, one doesn’t buy Govt. Bonds, et cetera, at the friggin’ butcher’s shop”
No, one buys government bonds in the bank around the corner, where one has an account. You don't really think the little-people went to Casa Rosada to buy them directly from the Argentine president, do you?
Your knowledge of bonds - contract, obligations to pay - seems sporadic. They are the least risky investments close to a bank account and one does not speculate in bonds. If one speculates, one buys shares or similar high yielding papers with a high risk attached.
85 Don Alberto.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “No, one buys government bonds in the bank around the corner, where one has an account.”
Do come awf it, Mate! You’re surely not suggesting that the “bank around the corner” (or one’s friendly neighbourhood financial advisor) is COMPLETELY DIVORCED and totally independent of “Head Office” and therefore, not an integral part of the international web of Big Banking deception? For from what I hear, certain UK legislators –having at last, woken up to what is REALLY going on– are ONLY NOW proposing that the RETAIL BANKING sector should be SEPARATED and ring fenced from BANKINGS’ SPECULATIVE, INTERNATIONAL INVESTMENT ARM.
Many years’ ago, my father –a former RN Gunboat Officer and lover of the sea was living out his retirement on the UK’s south coast. He became aware of small local shipbYARD; building, among other craft –you’ve guessed it– vessels similar to those in which he’d served during WWII. My ol’ man had a certain capital deposited at a low return, in a local branch of a prominent British Bank and the manager, whom he knew well; suggested that he invest his cash in the said shipbuilder, which was as “safe as houses” because it was a subsidiary of the giant arms manufacture, Vickers. My pa’ took his Bank Manager’s advice and invested –luckily– only part of his savings in the small shipbuilding enterprise. When sometime thereafter, the small enterprise in question went bust, my father THOUGHT –that given the parent company’s demonstrable huge wealth– he’d get at least SOME of his money back. Not on your Nelly! The small company had been purposefully registered SEPARATELY from the parent organization, thus insuring that my ol’ man got NOTHING.
In 1982, I inherited some money, myself and as times had moved on, I got an unsolicited postal invitation, to put money into very same Bank’s international investment services. You can guess what I did with that particular letter!
Of course, you’re right about just ONE thing. My knowledge of the esoteri
@ 86 JimHandley
Aug 07th, 2014 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it too much to expect you to think before you start running off at the mouth?
Being less verbose and more to the point would be a kindness to all who read your diatribes.
So carry on:
85 Don Alberto & 87 ChrisR.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PART 2 of 2.
85 Don Alberto.
Re: “No, one buys government bonds in the bank around the corner, where one has an account.”
Of course, you’re right about just ONE thing. My knowledge of the esoteric terminology employed to designate “bonds-contract, obligations to pay and whatnot” –so often used to bamboozle the uninitiated– IS lamentably deficient. But I’m not such a cretin as to swallow all the deceitful crap that International Capitalism would have us believe…
By the way, which Bank is YOUR employer?
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
87 ChrisR.
Re: “Is it too much to expect you to think before you start running off at the mouth?
Being less verbose and more to the point would be a kindness to all who read your diatribes.”
Spoken by a true master of the urbane art of brevity and concision, may I take it? At least, unlike certain others who for the present, shall remain unnamed, I DO NOT start “running off” from my anal orifice!
Jim.
MercoPress has gifted us with an example of a one-sided news story, that is: find a person I agree with, interview him or her, and then write a story based entirely on that person's opinions. It is a way to write opinion without telling the reader. A serious editor should have sent the reporter to interview at least one different source, offer both views and let the readers make up their mind.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rosendo Fraga says Argentina has to acknowledge it has defaulted, so he has taken sides with celebrity judge Thomas Griesa--which is his right. In my opinion, default has been used to try to pressure the Argentina government into submission. I am glad Cristina and Axel are not caving in. Each day that goes by, Paul Singer becomes more of a celebrity, which he sure does not like. This godfather does not like publicity, and now he is getting more than he bargained for.
He is a smart guy, but you know what? He won, won again, then he became arrogant.
His mistake was to believe he could do to Argentina what he did to Peru and to Congo. He may have done it a long time ago. Now that time is gone.
Argentina is where this vulture will break his hooked bill.
(88) I don't “ Think” the “Heep's” in here want to comprehend what you're saying...., Mr. “Micawber”
Aug 08th, 2014 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0(89) Mr. Enrique Massot...
Always a pleasure to read the comment of a“thinking” connational....
How nice it would be if you were right and the Vultures (foreign & local) would indeed “break their beaks” on Argentina..., one of their favourite feeding grounds during the last 100 years or so...
No matter how anyone tries to defend the un defendable, Argentina has screwed up again big time. The CFK regime has exposed itself to being politically and economically inept. The headline says it all.
Aug 08th, 2014 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks, Think. Likewise.
Aug 08th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To say the vultures may have gone too far with Argentina is not just being optimist. As you know, vultures approach their prey once it's weak enough but sometimes have to retreat if their victim puts up a fight.
Unlike previous cases in which countries paid the vultures quietly, our country has taken a firm instance against their predatory practices, and that is prompting increased awareness around the world.
Among other impacts, the ruling of Judge Thomas Griesa is destabilizing for future debt-restructuring processes and may prompt countries to issue anti-vulture legislation such as done by the UK.
In 2010, the UK passed its Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act, and in 2011 made the law permanent.
The government's press release says it all:
“The legislation will stop creditors, including so-called ‘vulture funds’, from using the UK courts to extract harsh and inequitable payments from poor countries for debts that the companies may in some cases have bought for a fraction of the cost.”
Enough said, but don't just believe me, go check:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-stops-vultures-profiting-from-poor-country-debt
(92) Jupppppp.......
Aug 08th, 2014 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Them fat ugly vultures greed & haughtiness made them come too close, too soon...
Argentina has already set some World Standards on Human Rights, being the only Country I know off that has had the guts of putting almost all its criminal military top brass behind bars.....
Let's hope that Mr. Kicillof & Co. do succeed in kicking some Vulture ass and setting some sorely needed new World Financial Standards...
92 Enrique Massot, et al,
Aug 08th, 2014 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: Content of:
www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-stops-vultures-profiting-from-poor-country-debt
Re: “The legislation will stop creditors, including so-called ‘vulture funds’, from using the UK courts to extract harsh and inequitable payments from poor countries for debts that the companies may in some cases have bought for a fraction of the cost…”
Is Argentina a really a POOR nation or it rather a country which has had the misfortune to suffer from more than a century’s leadership by incompetents at best, and crooks at worst?
Re: “Giving debt relief to poor countries allows them to spend more on schools, hospitals and other vital services necessary to boost growth and reduce poverty…”
To put it mildly, that assumption seems a tiny bit optimistic!
Conclusion: more idiotic UK politicians knowingly or unwittingly wasting the taxpayer’s hard-earned cash by promulgating internationally unenforceable, loony legislation.
As far as I can see, the only way to stop the abuses perpetrated by those such as the so-called Vulture Funds would be to establish an International Court, possibly under UN auspices. Such a body would regulate TO WHOM money could advanced and under what specific criteria –not simply intervene when the horse has bolted out of the stable door and thousands of modest investors have seen their savings evaporate like the smoke from the fiddling fat cats’ best quality Cuban cigars.
We already have the admittedly rather ineffective IMF and World Bank. Their powers should beefed-up, to a level alike those wielded by the ICC. And ALL lenders –governmental and PRIVATE– ought to be forced to comply with the new entity’s rulings. Perhaps such a change in international legislation would stop crooks, such as those presently governing Argentina, from taking out huge loans, only to capriciously fritter them away
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
(94) Jim Handley
Aug 08th, 2014 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As usual, I agree with most of what you write, including Argentina's many failings...
We are certainly no saints, but..................................................
Would it be to much to ask you to consider the idea of informing yourself a tad better about the present Kirchner Administration corruption record...?
-Our President net worth today is about 7 million U$S...
(A far cry from Tony Blair ' s £ 50 million)
- Our Vice President is being indicted about some faked family car registration papers...
- A fair amount of political appointees from this administration are being investigated...
In short, “those presently governing Argentina have NOT taken any huge loans, consequently, they haven't capriciously fritted them away...”
Of course, if you have otherwise reliable information, I would be most interested in seeing it...
Regards from this old, humble and crooked Uriah from Chubut...;-)
@ 94 JimHandley
Aug 08th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh my! You have a new bestist mate with The Lunatic of Chew Butt, the biggest liar on MP and well deserved that accolade is.
Remember when you were young and fighting with live munitions going off around you, thinking you were on a precipice between living and dying? You are there again with The Lunatic, but you will find out that you cannot rely on him or his Russian Navigators watch - that only displays the correct time twice in 24 hours!
Just be mindful that once you pass over The Dark Country will hold you forever. :o)
For: 95 Think.
Aug 08th, 2014 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: As usual, I agree with most of what you write, including Argentina's many failings... We are certainly no saints, but......” et cetera.
Are you perchance another errant Welshman or the offspring thereof? You’re certainly in the right place…
Cheers!
Jim, formerly of HEREFORD.
96 ChrisR.
Re: “Remember when you were young and fighting….” et cetera.
I fought only the N. Koreans and their Chinese Peoples’ Republic backers, by whom I was briefly captured. We Western lads were told that we were defending liberty! And look at where we are now –the so-called democratic West is up to its armpits in debt to China, simply because it’s a situation that ideally suits Multinational Capitalism`s avaricious self-interests.
Later, I lived in Hong Kong and got to know many ordinary, kindly Chinese…
POLITICIANS!!!
Cheers!
.
Jim
(97) Jim Handley
Aug 09th, 2014 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Are you perchance another errant Welshman or the offspring thereof? You’re certainly in the right place…”
I say...:
Nope..., not a single molecule of British blood running through me veins...
But possibly some of mine running in yours...
Just read in the great Wiki that my ancestors visited and torched your place in ~1000 AD...
Sorry for that... ;-)
Think
Aug 09th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0--Our President net worth today is about 7 million U$S...
(A far cry from Tony Blair ' s £ 50 million)--
With Tony Blair you are probably right. But seeing as CFK is a driven sociopath like Tony Blair seeing as CFK first made her fortune by taking advantage of those that couldn't pay their debts (this scenario sounds familiar doesnt it?) then her personality and drive and her current position suggest to me that really shes worth somewhat more than the $7 million that she declares.
Tell you what............, Anglo turnip at (99)
Aug 09th, 2014 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you try to avoid mentioning the, in my humble opinion unsavory way most solicitors in the world including the brave lady currently serving as democratic elected president of Argentina make their living..., I'll try to forget Tony Blair's 50 million delayed baksheesh fortune...
Or the four times bigger fortune of Baronet Thatcher made (with his mom's consent) by killing negroes and other niceties....
I won't even remember Geoffrey Dickens dossier on them 114 Westminster politicians sexual predilection for very young flesh, misteriously “misplaced” since the eighties...
Deal?
98Think.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “not a single molecule of British blood running through me veins...
But possibly some of mine running in yours...”, et cetera.
The pronounced Wagnerian triumphalism in the tenor of your reply suggests that I’m corresponding with a wannabe warrior of a greater GERMANIC background?
Another case of: ¿“POR LA BOCA MUERE EL PEZ”?
Tschüss!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
(101) Jim Handley
Aug 09th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My Scandinavian ancestry has never been a secret in here at MercoPress...
Nor has my taste for all things Wagnerian...
Servus
El Think
102 Think.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “My Scandinavian ancestry has never been a secret…”
Scandinavian is perhaps suitably imprecise definition of your origins for it covers a number of modern nations, which do not always agree socio-politically with one another.
Regarding that “ol’ rocker” Wagner, I too enjoy SOME of his works but not the “19th CENTURY HEAVY METAL” pieces. Incidentally, Wagner was also an vehement anti-Semite and Hitler’s favourite composer, to boot. And speaking of the “Der Führer”, certain Scandinavian “Quislings” who collaborated with the Nazi invaders during WWII, were lucky enough to escape overseas, after the Allied victory, It is said one of the favourite destinations for such fleeing war criminals was Patagonia –so perhaps you’ve come across one or two such “Artful Dodgers” in Chubut? If so, do please tell us all!
I’m afraid to say that your and I have something in common. My family’s original male ancestor didn’t arrive in Britain until 1066 He did so in the pay of one William The Bastard, leader of the Norman Invasion.
Of course, Norman is a corrupted form of Norseman –simply so, because the Normans were a Viking tribe who had settled in Northern France, centuries’ earlier. In fact, the Vikings settled in many parts of Europe, venturing as far south as Sicily and as some claim, in North Africa, too.
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
(103) Jim Handley (myViking mate ;-)
Aug 10th, 2014 - 02:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Most of “Western Intelligentia” was “Vehemently Anti-Semite” and/or otherwise “ Eugenic minded” on those days...., as I'm positive you are quite aware of...
Anyhow... Responding to your “preposterous insinuation” above...
I think to remember, some time ago, having answering a similar one from a young Engrish/Niuginean Memsahib currently squatting in Malvinas...:
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/10/19/new-book-claims-overwhelming-evidence-shows-hitler-ended-his-days-in-argentina#comment69477
Grüessli
El Think...
Just to pop back on topic, if I may?
Aug 10th, 2014 - 03:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fraga said ”In an interview with a Buenos Aires radio, Fraga said that “to minimize the default is a major political mistake” which will have high social costs. “The Argentine economy is already in recession, with inflation, with a significant increase in poverty and unemployment. What we are going to see is a worsening of social costs”.
It is good to see someone 'owning' the problem, but what is Plan B? Getting into bed with the Russians and the Chinese only opens them up to worse exploitation in the future.
Are we witnessing the demise of Argentina? Or not?
PART 1 of 2.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0104 Think.
Re: “Most of “Western Intelligentia” was “Vehemently Anti-Semite” and/or otherwise “Eugenic minded” on those days...., as I'm positive you are quite aware of...!” et cetera.
That’s certainly an indubitable TRUTH but two WRONGS never make a RIGHT –see below.
I’m sure even you will agree that –since the long gone days of Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid –“isolated” Patagonia has been a preferred refuge by a fair number of notorious criminal ne’er-do-wells seeking to evade retribution. And post 1945 escaped Nazi War Criminals were certainly no exception to the rule. At this point, let’s leave out the conspiracy theories about “The Aged Adolf’s Argentinean Idyll” and concentrate on KNOWN FACTS!
Re: “Responding to your “preposterous insinuation” et cetera
&
“some time ago, having answering a similar one from a young Engrish/Niuginean Memsahib currently squatting in Malvinas...”
Come awf it! To claim that Britons are “squatting” in The Falkands is at the absolute bloody pinnacle of pretentious preposterousness. What an earth are YOU Europeans doing in Patagonia, which just some 200 years’ ago was the sovereign home of a bunch of unsophisticated Amerindians? Then, together with my own maternal Celtic (Welsh/Irish) forebears, you “Viking-like Barbarians” invaded the place, systematically exterminated its indigenous dwellers and stole their land. And in 1982, you THOUGHT you could the same to the Kelpers, who’ve NEVER shown any aggression whatsoever toward Argentina, but that time, things didn’t QUITE go to plan!
You’re obviously an extraordinarily intelligent fellow with an intimate understanding of all things Anglo-Saxon, including its many moral inconsistencies and innate hypocrisy (Perfidious Albion/US and whatnot) Yet strangely, you act as though you are envious and resentful the “little Engländer”.
Frankly, I’m getting rather pissed-off by your expressing your jealousy by the condescending use of language shown in your superior, “Maste
(106) Jim Handley
Aug 10th, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My dear fellow....
Before you continue, let me assure you that my apparent condescendence is just a kind of antidote against the humongous amount of pestilent haughtiness emanating from each and every comment from so many Anglo Turnips posting on these pages...
Please feel free now to continue with your Philippic....
@105 ilsen
Aug 10th, 2014 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting info. (hope so).
@105 ilsen
Aug 10th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good points-they don't seem to get that they going from the frying pan into the fire.
PART 2 of 2.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0104 Think.
Frankly, I’m getting rather pissed-off by your expressing your jealousy by the condescending use of language, as shown in your arrogant, “Master Race” references to those whom you obviously consider the world’s “Untermenschen”. It’s a pity that those who taught you such exquisite English didn’t teach you a little well-mannered humility, too. For if your views and attitude are representative of your country’s principal “opinion-makers” it’s NO WONDER THE FALKLAND ISLANDERS WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH ARGENTINA –A MISMANAGED, BANKRUPT, PATHETIC, PETTY “CORRUPTELA” OF MINOR INTERNATIONAL IMPORT; RUN BY A BUNCH OF WORTHLESS WEAK-MINDED, MEGALOMANIAC, WANNABE IMPERIALIST UBERMENSCHEN!!!
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
(110) Jim Handley
Aug 10th, 2014 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I have said on these pages previously...
I'm just an average Argie..., pissed-off by the fact that a Decadent European Ex-Empire ruled by a German Royal Dynasty has the incredible Chuzpah of pretending, in the Lords Year of 2014, to control millions of square miles of South-Atlantic and Antarctic territories adjacent to South America, hiding under the skirts of a bunch of no more than 1,500 Anglo Kelper subjects that, some short 30 years ago, weren't even entitled to Second Class British Citizenship...
No more... no less...
Get used to it, Think.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thats the way it is.
You'll be screaming even more, sans doubt, when we start to exploit Antarctica's riches.
You could have come on board, but hey, you wanted it all yourselves.
Naughty, naughty.
@110 Jim Handley,
Didn't take you too long to work out señor Think.
l'm also enjoying your posts, Jim.
(112) Chère Young Engrish/Niuginean Memsahib Isolde, currently squatting in Malvinas...
Aug 10th, 2014 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's the way it is..., at the time being.
But the Times they are a-Changin'..., babykins.
PART 1 of 2.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0111 Think.
Re: “Decadent European Ex-Empire ruled by a German Royal Dynasty”
That may be true but at least; Britain’s ruling class ain’t QUITE so MORALLY decadent as Argentina’s. And remember, it was the insignificant little Englanders who soundly beat not only the 16th century superpower Spain’s “invincible” Armada but her Scots allies, too. As someone has already said on these pages, the Britons will only take a limited amount of “malarkey” before they take off their jackets and start scrapping. Perhaps the worst part of the Anglo-Saxons’ character is that when goaded too far, they become extremely truculent buggers. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad but history shows it to be certainly true.
And there’s no intrinsic shame in being of the Germanic race –we Brits have many Saxon links, anyway. As a young schoolboy, I cowered in terror under the Luftwaffe’s WWII air raids. But as an adult, I lived in Germany for two quite long periods and came to greatly admire Germanic culture –from science, right through to music, And for my money, Mozart was perhaps the greatest genius ever born to woman!
My paternal grandfather, an expert German linguist, was a frequent visitor to the Germanic countries where he maintained certain “interests”. However, during WWI he volunteered to become of the Royal Flying Corps’ fist pilots.
Fortunately, Germany’s present FEDERAL REPUBLIC –in which each of the largely autonomous “Bundesländer” does its own thing– reflects somewhat the old 19th century status quo, before German unification under Bismarck. The most politically beneficial aspect of today’s FEDERAL structure is the ALMOST complete absence of the notion a Berlin-centric, imperialistic “Reich”. I say ALMOST because unfortunately, there is still a substantial number of Neo-Nazis on the scene.
Conversely, the wannabe “All Conquering Il Duce” banner struck aloft the Casa Rosada by that arch-cynic and singular “sinvergüenza” Perón, still stubbornly flutters –or rat
Pray continue, JimHandley. enjoy your posts.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My paternal grandfather was also in the RAF.
Ground crew, an engine & airframe fitter.
Grand dad was at Tobruk, Mesopotamia(as lraq)was called, lran(putting Spitfires together for Russia), lndia then back to Egypt in time for El Alemein.
ln lraq he fought as infantry in defence of the main RAF airfield against Rashid Ali's uprising.
Loved his wartime stories.
@113 Think,
The times are always achanging, Cher Think & l have no doubt that we'll have to share the loot from Antarctica with the heavyweights, e.g.:-
USA
Russia
China
lndia
Japan(possibly)
Chile
France
Germany
South Africa
etc..........................
HOWEVER,
I don't foresee Argentina playing ANY rôle at all, except their usual incessant impotent whinging & whining about it all.
And of course, it will ALWAYS be some one else's fault why Argentina isn't getting their “fair share”(which is RGspeak for all of it!)of the loot.
But hey, you don't deserve to progress with your mindset.
à bientot
I
@114 jim
Aug 11th, 2014 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0interesting post. Thank you.
My father was in the RAF and other branches of of the family have a long history with the Royal Engineers. My maternal Grandfather was a Sapper and two uncles also.
I also agree that there is much to be admired about some aspects of germanic culture. Especially the music.
I for one have been impressed by their plumbing, but maybe I am just a bit odd!
:)
TWIMC
Aug 12th, 2014 - 05:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0When you people are done admiring your cousins the Germans...... whilst, at the same time, relishing on the extermination stories of your two last European fratricidal wars against them (spiced up , of course, by a couple of digressing “scaramouches” against some lesser races:-)....., you can watch this Englishman's video...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5DnGOukmEIE
Funny and very truth....
PART 2 of 2.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry for the typos –omitted conjunctions/prepositions or whatever grammarians term such parts of speech –in PART 1 of 2.
Conversely, the wannabe “All Conquering Il Duce” banner struck aloft the Casa Rosada by that arch-cynic and singular “sinvergüenza” Perón, still stubbornly flutters –or rather, AIMLESSLY FLAPS ABOUT– in the face of all prevailing proverbial winds of change.
“All Conquering Il Duce” –of course, a metaphoric reference to yet another raving megalomaniac, the late Italian Fascist dictator, Benito (how oddly inappropriate for such a fiend) Mussolini. Thus, most “politically aware” citizens of Argentina’s neighbouring countries still fear the implementation of the BA military’s expansionist, international ambitions.
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
Thanks Jim,
Aug 12th, 2014 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0@117 Think,
The video is very entertaining & no doubt true.
But with Argentina's constantly expressed attitude to the Falkland lslands, you'll get no sympathy from me.
The very reverse in fact, the deeper you sink in the mire, the more l will cheer.
Just remember, Think, its all your own doing.
lf you know that you cannot pay back the money, do not borrow it in the first place.
lf Argentina was a good neighbour to us then its possible that we all could have helped in some way. We would not have wished you ill-will for a start.
This, of course, is why you want our oil, if there is any.
But as you know, Nestor had the Tom Tits because he wanted it all.
Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedy little article.
For all who wish to know just how truly dangerous are the activities of our Big International Bankers and their Vulture Fund cohorts.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do please see the programme made by Aljazeera TV, in collaboration with Radio Canada, titled:
MELTDOWN.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/meltdown/
A number of former BBC journalists founded ALJAZEERA TV, many of whom are still on its staff, and –although funded by the ruling family of Qatar– I’ve always found it to be singularly objective in its reporting and comment; even when dealing with the Israelis. Furthermore, some of its reporters are Jews, including its correspondent in Latin America.
Aljazeera’s interesting, wide-ranging programmes are also available here:
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/meltdown/
&
similarly named Websites.
In the UK, it may be received GRATIS on the SKY platform’s Channel 514.
Cheers!
Mr Micawber, in Madrid.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!