MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina closer to contempt of court as it suggests bondholders to change paymaster
New York district judge Thomas Griesa and the Argentine government are again on the collision course: while the magistrate has ordered the Bank of New York Mellon to retain the funds deposited by Argentina to pay exchange bondholders and declaring the payment “illegal”, the Ministry of Economy in Buenos Aires suggested bondholder should change BONY for a new intermediary institution. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThere cannot be contempt of court, when you don't recognize the legitimacy of said court.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Simple as that and tough luck. End of story.
@1
Aug 07th, 2014 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0- Unfortunately Argentina can't ignore this court since they are bound by its rules on a very significant matter that has already caused Argentina to default.
kicillof: ”...The New York South District Court has no jurisdiction over the .. Bonds of 2005 and 2010“.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0bullshit!
pari passu says: no payments to others unless the same payments go to the bondholders of us-, german, japanase and other laws. basta.
one cannot follow his ongoing twists and idiocies , as fast as he spreads them.
What on earth does the Argentine government realistically believe they will achieve with digging their feet in, the longer this goes on the more damage they will sustain....would you invest in Argentina?
Aug 07th, 2014 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0......more popcorn please I'm out.
Could judge Griesa issued an international arrest warrant against the perpetrators?
Aug 07th, 2014 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0If they did not recognize the legitimacy they would not have been there over the years know polishing. Your government is so stupid it's more embarrassing than reading your posts tobi.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0#5 The ICJ is for states, not individual......how stupid are you? You never answered my other posted question.....when is the so called English judge going to fix this?
#4 Argentina believes if you say it enough it is true.
tobi how is that Ford plant expansion going? I've seen the plant.....have you?
Even if required to do so by the bondholders, BoNY would still be in conpempt of the ruiling if it actually transferred the funds. If it did, the judge would say the same rules apply to the new trustee and if that trustee was a bank outside the US, the judge would warn that bank that by moving the funds to a new trustee they would be deliberately assisting in the circumvention of his ruling and this be in contempt.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for the the banks who are willing to buy at 80 cents in the dollar, they need assurances that that, should they do so, the gov will pay them back the full amount. The gov has said that they will not give better terms than the restructured bonds so it looks, at present, that the deal won't happen. At this rate, it would be better if the funds were allowed to take their $1.6bn in gov assets and then the ruling could be considered complied with and everone could get back to work. Apart from Tobi, who will no doubt just continue throtting madly in his room in Mendoza...
@1
Aug 07th, 2014 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your comment reminds me of Al Pacino's work. See : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BofddwtPBPw
You're looking at things from the wrong end of the telescope. To be held in contempt of court it matters not what the loudmouth Argentine politicians think about the court's jurisdiction over them , but whether the court thinks it has jurisdiction over them. The Argentine politicians grandstanding to curry favor with the voters back home can insult the US judge and mediator from outside the courthouse, but if they do so inside they will find themselves “out of order.”
@1 Narine
Aug 07th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“There cannot be contempt of court, when you don't recognize the legitimacy of said court.”
So you figure Argentina can come to do business in another country but doesn't have to recognize it's courts?
Can I go to Argentina and do that?
A man who walks into another man's house and has it thoroughly in his mind that the owners ought to do what he pleases, is dog dung.
This same piece of dog dung believes thoroughly that no one ought to be doing that in his home.
You are so brilliant! I want to ask one simple question.
“Why exactly did Argentina distribute those bonds through NY State and not directly, wouldn't directly have worked better”?
@1. You've come up with so many of those “End of story” lines. Here's an idea. Judge Griesa orders the Bank of New York Mellon to transfer the 539 million dollars to the plaintiffs. The money's gone. He's entitled to order that. And then every other bank is warned that, if not under current U.S. jurisdiction, they will not be permitted to operate, in any way, in the U.S.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0@8. If you read up, you'll find that the U.S. has something called “indirect contempt”. Doesn't really matter where the tossers are!
Argentina closer to contempt of court ,,
Aug 07th, 2014 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does this mean, that the court can put CFK in jail..
just a barring thought..
This reminds me of a teenager living at home and complaining about the rules set down by their parents.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whaa Whaa Whaa
This is unfair, I am an adult I can do what I want. Whaaa then bitching to all theri friends all of them of course agreeing that their getting a raw deal and they are indeed an adult and shouldn't be treated like this...
Until the parents say, you're 18 get out
Then the teen is living on the streets selling their body to eat.
Sounds like CFK ...lol
Aug 07th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 013. I think she pays not get paid.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it a good time to buy real estate in BA?
Aug 07th, 2014 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 015. Not at all. This is the beginning of the downward spiral you need to buy near the end of the cycle.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There'e plenty of time and lots of room in prices.
BCRA wants to raise interest rates because they are out of u$ won't be able to afford to support the exchange much longer.
Plus Austral Elvis and CFK may not allow it
I watch RE in BA and I think its priced about 2x more than it should be.
Lots of time, hoard U$ and if you can't get them buy staples that can be easily sold or traded.
#3.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Baba is the ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD who can help him with his ongoing twists and idiocies at this point, we have heard TOOOOOO MUCH!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geLtFCxDs40
@9
Aug 07th, 2014 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure you can. The US has never respected the laws of anyone, Argentina or otherwise.
To the Editor/Author:
Aug 07th, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“BNY shall retain the funds in its accounts at the BCRA pending further order from this court and shall not allow or make any transfers of the funds unless ordered by court,” a statement signed by Griesa reads.“
- - - - This 'statement' that you refer to is indeed a 'court order'. - - - -
”The NY judge described the payment as “illegal”, as it does not follow his ruling on the so called “vulture fund” case, where he 'sentenced' Argentina shall pay exchange bondholders and holdouts altogether.“
---- ”Sentences are the results of criminal prosecution and subsequent findings of guilt. Judgements are the product of successful civil litigation for equity and performance.” ----
---- If you continue to apply the term 'vultures' to the plaintiffs in this matter is only appropriate that the defendants be referred to henceforth as 'carrion'. ----
Your gringo amigo!
TOOOOOOOOBI?
Aug 07th, 2014 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Why exactly did Argentina distribute those bonds through NY State and not directly, wouldn't directly have worked better”?
Because it was better at the time to obey US laws. Now it is not convenient, so they don't.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is a smart philosophy to use a court that at the end of the day has no means of enforcing non-compliance. It bought Argentina 12 years.
Now they go to another court and repeat the process.
Use the courts of the world to borrow more without paying any of it. Sounds smart to me.
21. There's only NY or London. You burned NY and do you seriously think London doesn't know what's going on in NY?
Aug 07th, 2014 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think your desperation is showing
growl snap snap
Such criminal thinking. And you wonder why the worlds regards you as pus?
Aug 07th, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ironically the new agreement between Argentina and China would have disputes resolved in London.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bottom line - if they issued bonds under Argentine law nobody would buy them.
And there you have it...Viveza Criolla.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 023. He doesn't realize the rest of the world thinks its criminal. Its the way of life there.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kicillof said: “The New York South District Court has no jurisdiction over the Restructured Bonds of 2005 and 2010”
Aug 07th, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's own prospect for the 2005 restructuring says:
”Pars or Discounts denominated in U.S. dollars will be governed by New York law, ... Argentina has irrevocably submitted to the jurisdiction of U.S. state or federal court sitting in the Borough of Manhattan, the City of New York (with respect to New Securities governed by New York law), the courts of England (with respect to New Securities
issued under English law), and the courts of Argentina (with respect to all New Securities) ... Additionally, while Argentina has irrevocably waived to the fullest extent permitted by applicable law (including the United States Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act of 1976, which we refer to as the “”Immunities Act''), any immunity from jurisdiction, attachment prior to judgment, execution of a judgment or any other legal process or judicial remedy of any of the courts mentioned above“
Argentina's own prospect for the 2010 restructuring says:
”Discounts or Pars denominated in U.S. dollars will be governed by New York law; ... with respect to any New Securities governed by New York law, Argentina will submit to the jurisdiction of any New York State or U.S. federal court sitting in the Borough of Manhattan, The City of New York ... New Securities governed by Argentine law will not have the benefit of certain covenants granted to holders of New Securities governed by New York law or English law.”
What Kicillof said is in line with the silly idea that Argentina can somehow get the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to accept a case against a non-state.
ICJ jurisdiction: ”Only States (States Members of the United Nations and other States which have become parties to the Statute of the Court or which have accepted its jurisdiction under certain conditions) may be parties to contentious cases.”
I notice that nobody is actually responding to Nostrils anymore, what's the point?
Aug 07th, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, it's interesting to hear what 'the deluded', the citizens in denial who believe the Peronist rhetoric have to say.
It's so way out in Left Field, and wacko...
@ 28
Aug 07th, 2014 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The idiot savant Tobias is simply trolling, no reason to waste time on writing answers he either don't understand or ignore because they would disrupt his world view from his mother's basement window.
@27 Don Alberto,
Aug 07th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting and informative post, thanks
@29
re. Nostrils
In his case, I'm convinced he's only trying to get attention - not worth responding to.
Hopefully, he'll go away.
The gov is about to make an announcement on the economy. They are convinced that it is just about to turn a corner for the better and pull itself out of recession....
Aug 07th, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yankee, I can't help but sense that you have some money on the line in all of this and that you're starting to panic.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your posts have become increasingly ... energetic ... since the big day passed.
Theres a hint of desperation.
Are things not going according to your plan ??
@23, 24, 25, 26, et al
Aug 07th, 2014 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's only about using up the strategy selected. Argentina engaged on this road of non-payment 12 years ago, so they might as well use and squeeze every last and possible recourse out of it.
It would make no difference in Argentina's standing to settle with the hold-outs now, and to pay the Paris Club, etc. Capitalists are simply not flexible like that. Since the default has been declared, it makes no difference if one pays today or in two years.
So Argentina does well in squeezing the strategy to the last.
#30 I see RGland is taking the USA to ICJ......now, is that not like going to the prom without a date considering that the USA would have to subordinate their judicial authority. What are the chances that the number 1 world power will subordinate their judicial authority? Seems this debt default is more important than the Falklands because they have yet to bring Britain to the ICJ......lol:
Aug 07th, 2014 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Argentine Republic contends that the United States of America has committed
violations of Argentine sovereignty and immunities and other related violations as a result of
judicial decisions adopted by US tribunals concerning the restructuring of the Argentine public
debt.”
http://www.icj-cij.org/presscom/files/4/18354.pdf
Can someone of intelligence.....(no RG's) tell me how does one violates ones sovereignty when they themselves ceeded it to the NY state laws in order to borrow the money?
I'm sorry but I can't abide by my previous committment. The defendants in the suit will hereafter referred to as “ROTTING ROADKILL”.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 032. No skin in this game. I pulled everything out of Argentina in 2004 and left in 2005. I went back every year or so for awhile but I doubt I'll be back for a long time. I have other places on my list to see.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You must be mistaking amusement with desperation. I find the K buffoonery fascinating. Simply fascinating.
One dumb move after another.
These idiots never seem to learn.
32 Vestige
Aug 07th, 2014 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Laughable wishful thinking on your part.
Perhaps we should question YOUR motives instead - “What's in it for you???””
As a spectator, Argentina is better than a train wreck - morbid, but one can't rear their eyes away...
31. Credits for new buses.
Aug 07th, 2014 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah that's will get the economy restarted
sillyfools
The only thing Marxists know how to do is print more fiat currency. Spend more, tax more, spend even more, tax even more.
Until the whole system collapses
They're not Venezuela yet but they're close and V hasn't defaulted yet. They still have some assets to sell.
Hoping' for contempt of court tomorrow.
They're due
This has already started for the European bond holders. We are the 93%.
Aug 08th, 2014 - 04:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why would you by bonds from someone that could not pay their bond in the first place after they default? Do you consider that prudent investing?
Aug 08th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@38 - “Hoping' for contempt of court tomorrow.
Aug 08th, 2014 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They're due”
This has to be getting closer, they have been mouthing off so much that this must bite them soon...
The most he could do is fine them(individuals) and I suspect the chances are slim to none on collecting that.
Aug 08th, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If he does that and they do not pay, what is their status with regards to entering the US?
Aug 08th, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pretty well ferked I would have thought.
He wouldn't as he can be arrested. Unless he has diplomatic status and being a politician does not automatically give one diplomatic status, that is for the USA to decide. But he is not even a politician he is an appointed bureaucrat.
Aug 08th, 2014 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This change has already started. If the European bond holders vote to change the trustee will they be in contempt of the yank court
Aug 09th, 2014 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0.. I don't think so.
Provide the link bb? Just better hope that bank is not doing business in the USA.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0AND......
Were will they get the official registry of ownership from? Do you think the bank will turn it over against the court?
Will they take the word of someone walking up and saying...“ ME I own bonds” ?
In that case.............
ME!! I own bonds!!!!
at 46
Aug 10th, 2014 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0The nominees are European. What Wall St robber baron singer has done is illegal in Europe. Names from the nominees.
Come on BB ....I know this is difficult for you being an RG, but show us the link the what Singer did ( buy open and valid bond contracts on the cheap and enforce payment) is illegal in Europe” What particular EU law would that be?
Aug 10th, 2014 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 01-show the particular law that makes it illegal
2-show the link the EU courts are preparing action
You Argentine's just fail to accept that the contract of the original bonds never went away because you did not pay on them. You also fail to comprehend that is there were 100 bondholders and 98 were being paid, they were not all being paid. This is a 3 Musketeer contract......ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL. Failure to do that is failure to pay on the bonds according to the terms of the contract.......thus you defaulted.
Also tell your mickey mouse court justice, Macaroni.....I mean Zapparoni, he should close if mouth if he does not even know that Greisa IS a federal judge, only one that is not for sale like in your country Argentina.
Justice is blind........study that phrase and learn what it means.
at 48
Aug 11th, 2014 - 05:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0The laws are called anti vulture laws. The court actions are given in the solicitor's letters. They ate not on the internet. You yanks are so ignorant. You think that a yank judge can rule for a yank Wall St banker in England.
Speak for yourself RG. No one has to point to your stupidity and when you carry your own stage light. Your judge must be very slow moving as it is yet to make the news.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0at 50
Aug 12th, 2014 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't follow this from the news. From solicitors letters. But I have seen at least one article. Try European news papers. Or are you yanks too dumb for that.
Yes they must be waiting for ....next year to do something.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're such a dumb fuck if you think anyone believes stupid RG's like you. Euro news would be on that like white on rice!! Media is not controlled like in RGland. GO back under your rock where you belong.
at 52
Aug 13th, 2014 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not true. It was in one of the financial page if I remember correctly. The yank court's default has not been much of a story in England. One day in world news. The English papers don't print much about any hedge finds not interested because most don't know what they are. I get the information from the solicitors. Try and keep up.
Also the hedges have written about changing the trustees. Needs a vote.
Go back to bed. Reality is impeding on your dreams. If you ever get the money you should visit England sometime.....but being an Argentine that might be difficult for you.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is great theater!....
Aug 13th, 2014 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0at 54
Aug 13th, 2014 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0So you cannot answer so all you can do is call me not British. Stupid yank McCarthyism.
Go back to bed. Im in Australia and its afternoon. But you lazy fat arsed yanks sleep all day anyway. Get your fat yank are out of bed and find out what's going on.
Not answer.... you had no question.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see a new RG troll shift has started.
You are too comical claiming that EU courts are coming to RGland's rescue.
BTW....your insults are pointless at best and and juvenile to say the least.
at 57
Aug 13th, 2014 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course I had no questions. You are too dumb. But you cannot say why your robber baron law should stop English contracts. Well it won't.
Not me claiming the hedges are claiming. That what the letters from the solicitors and nominees are for.
58 Hepatia
Aug 13th, 2014 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the “letters from solicitors” that only YOU and Fictitious Granny have access to???
You should probably phone Crissy, Elvis, and the “Motherland or Vultures” wackos to put their minds at ease.
While you're at it - tell the WSJ, the Economist, and CNN - I'm sure they'd like to hear these revelations.
Chuckle chuckle...
Troy.........Hep C has to be the stupidest RG apart from Sussie.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0at 60
Aug 13th, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm stupid. What about you and your yank judge. You don't even understand that the bonds are issued in England. They have nothing to do with America. Your yank judge did not understand this. Your dum. The only connection to America is BNY which is the trustees. The clearing houses and nominees are European.
You have not answered the question why do you think that English people should live under American law. You cannot answer. All you can do is say that I'm in British. You lose.
I'm not hep c. I don't know what you are talking about. Why do you keep saying that I am.
BB/ Hep C
Aug 13th, 2014 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...bonds to be administered under US Jurisdiction - an inducement to creditors to ensure Argentina complied with the terms of the bonds.
Dumkopf
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!