MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Despite warning, Kicillof again defies and again accuses Griesa of 'partiality'
Economy ministry Axel Kicillof once again defiantly insisted Argentina has made a required debt payment on restructured sovereign bonds on Friday night, just hours after a U.S. judge threatened a contempt-of-court order if Argentina did not stop issuing such statements. Read full article
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Aug 09th, 2014 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0There's nothing confusing about it. You simply have to pay everyone. Where's the confusion in that?
Aug 09th, 2014 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Aug 09th, 2014 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0I “Think” I have seen judge Griesa in a similar parody of “American Justice” before...
Yes, I have...., yes I have!
Here he is...., judging a couple of Argentineans (and luuuuuuvely Demi Moore;-)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Dg1gdWxAM
Aw poor Think. Desperate Think.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0You honestly believe that you are somehow going to get away with this, but you're not.
The ICJ wouldn't hear your case. You are bad mouthing the US, thus alienating those American that might've actually been sympathetic, and very soon the bailiffs and repo men will be knocking on doors and taking all of Argentina's stuff.
And still you'll cry, and beg and crawl and humiliate yourselves some more rather than face reality.
Goodbye Argentina. You've destroyed yourselves again. Argentina, the only country in the world regressing from a develop nation into a very undeveloped nation.
But maybe the Chinese or the Russians or someone will save you...but I wouldn't hold your breath. As the bible says: “The Lord helps those who help themselves”, but he doesn't help those who sit around on their backsides stealing other people's money and possessions.
CFK will be ok, with her stash of cash , but the rest of the argys are banjaxed.....but who really cares :D
Aug 09th, 2014 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go for it CFK everyone is behind you!!!!!!!!
Aug 09th, 2014 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes the bailiffs
And to think a simple approach from TMBOA to Singer direct with a sparkle in her eyes and a kleenex in her hands, a quick BJ and they're done.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hang on while I go and throw up.
@1. Where do you get the idea that contempt would involve issue arrest warrants? Although Kicillof might find it wise to stay out of U.S. jurisdictions for a while. The judge could simply impose a fine. Say €50,000 a day until argieland pays the holdouts. I'm a little surprised that argieland didn't use that option. Pay the holdouts and ask the restructured bondholders to wait a few months.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 03. Is Think still pretending to live in Chubut? One would think he'd be smart enough to post during the day on my side of the Atlantic.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Alas I don't even know why I said that. He's not smart, clever or funny.
Sad lonely and pathetic are apt terms.
Austral Elvis is so out of his depth. Poor thing. I think his arrogance is makes him stupid.
At some point Arg will realize they lost, my guess it will be when the civil unrest starts. It shouldn't be too much longer now. Teachers on strike...again. Dockworkers on strike...again. Auto Mfg workers on strike...again. Lear parts workers on strike, burning tires, blocking major hwys, pepper sprayed...again. Banks on strike...again. Stores closing all over the country...again. 10,000/day lining up for Gas subsidies...again.
All we need is a few day blackout when its cold and rainy. August is a perfect month.
Here's hoping for the best...clink.
Axel, you didn't pay. You deposited, it was an illegal move to pay.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only Argentina would consider using an International body established to circumvent armed conflict, as a small claims court!
Aug 09th, 2014 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Someone should tell them that the basis of all legislation and legal bodies is to serve a purpose.
The purpose of the ICJ is not to hear civil torts.
I watched an Economist on Bloomberg describe this as using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
Nuts seems to be thr appropriate word in discussions about the Rgentine government. Notice I say government, not people, tthough they do bare responsibility for those they set in above them.
These tactics will not help Argentina in the long term. They are killing all hope of any future foreign investment.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Advice to the little Argentinian boy - Don't go to Florida on Holiday or anywhere else with an extradition treaty with the USA. Russia is nice at this time of year despite what Snowden says.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think we can take that as fairly well read, though I have to say that it astounds me that there are people out there who actually think they can do “normal” business with them.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I had any money to invest, the first thing I would look into would be the history of the returns on other invetsments.
Am I the only one who consider that, before giving anyone my money????
One thing for for sure! If someone came to me and asked for my money and promised me a profit, then showed me that the previous investors took a 75% loss!!!!!
I would tell them to ferk off and stop taking the piss out of me.
Really, really, really can not understand why people would fall for it.
Would you sit down to eat with a lion, if he told he had become a vegetarian?
Think not!
@ 3 Poor Shrinkbrain, who has been shown over and over again, the the full United States Court of Appeal acknowledged Federal Judge Griesa's ruling. Shrinkbrain's skull is too thick to understand (probably a massive bonehead).
Aug 09th, 2014 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina waives its sovereing immunity:
The republic has in the fiscal agency agreement irrevocably submitted to the jurisdiction of any New York state or federal court sitting in the Borough of Manhattan ... The republic has in the fiscal agency agreement waived any objection to related proceedings in such courts ...
Ruling of United States Court of Appeals:
For the reasons stated, the judgments of the district court (1) granting summary judgment to plaintiffs on their claims for breach of the Equal Treatment Provision and (2) ordering Argentina to make “Ratable Payments” to plaintiffs concurrent with or in advance of its payments to holders of the 2005 and 2010 restructured debt are affirmed.
They do not respect the normal rules of civilised societies, underscored by the rule of law, concept of trust and bond of honour in a promise. They have no concept of national shame.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Theirs is a society of one upmanship and frankly, they are not very good at that either.
Simple as that.
Mind you, they would be eminently qualified, for gathering together a group of children to play a game skipping in the school yard.
I can just see them now, walking round with their arms over each others shoulders, singing, “Who wants to be in my gang.”
Not perhaps the most mature of analogies, but nevertheless appropriate for their behaviour.
Dear Elvis:
Aug 09th, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is only proper that Griesa should defer and show preference to the plaintiffs as they are the damage party in this action and their claim has been adjudged valid.
Mr. Kissoff, you will own this diasaster that is the imploding economy of rotting roadkill. You are failing in all thing political. The study of theoretical economics policy is not dissimilar from that of aroma therapy. Perhaps you can learn to drive a cab or be an operator on the subte.
You gringo amigo salute you!
When will Cristina realise that this debt won't 'just go away'?
Aug 09th, 2014 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Foolish woman. She is condemning the youth to a miserable future. There will be no further investment and no one will ever buy a single Argentine Bond ever again.
No money. No progress. Only regression. How grim.
Ilsen.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you had the money to invest in Argentinian bonds.
Would you?
That's called a loaded question!
Slap these morons with the contempt of court order
Aug 09th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He should change his name from Griesa to Solomon.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A lesser man would have lost his patience by now.
@19 rc (&20 Tik Tok)
Aug 09th, 2014 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My answer is No, of course not!
My point being that although Cristina is probably enjoying 'stickin it to the man' does she realise the long-term consecuences of her actions?
I feel she is condemming a generation to poverty.
Eventually the country will grind to a halt. What happens when there are no jobs,when they can't import fuel etc.........
She needs more than slapping with a contempt of court order
Come on, Judge, cite him. See if the tosspit can find a carrier without US Marshalls aboard or waiting at the gate. Passport? Throw it in the cesspit. Drag him in front of the judge. Get out the axe. Hold his head over the block. Hang on, that was the Spanish era. More civilised now. Chop his nuts off.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nah! He won't.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He's worried about causing problems for the American State Department.
He would like to, but he won't.
They know it, that's why they can keep getting away with the shit that they do.
@22 Cristina doesn't care about the long-term consequences of her actions unless it impacts her directly. She would gladly starve the whole country to get an extra billion dollars to spend when she exiles to whatever Socialist paradise will welcome her, so does Kicillof and virtually everyone in the government.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They will reach a point where the judge has no other choice..
Aug 09th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cuba or Venezuala?
Aug 09th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My monies on Miami though!
God help them. When CFK and her cronies leave office what do you think will happen to the country? No U$S and no-one willing to invest in a failed state.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 28 golfcronie
Aug 09th, 2014 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chile could take the west half and Brazil the east half as long as they leave Uruguay alone I don't GAF.
They should all be thrown in gaol for the rest of their lives.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THE FALKLANDS will probably buy Patagonia, just think of all that Shale gas and oil that Argentina are leaving in the ground for future generations, There ought to be an international warrant of arrest for the CFK gang after destroying Argentina economically.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16
Aug 09th, 2014 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We don't respect them because you are neither civilized nor honorable. You may think that but no one else those. Europe and the USA are pathetic, nations, that I hope are wiped off the map some day. No mercy.
@32 Are you still Chinese?
Aug 09th, 2014 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course. WE are the ones wiping you out. Some day, somewhat soon.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fascinating....
Aug 09th, 2014 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is this actual Chinese Govt Policy?
Yes, but we have not decided whether you are worthy of existence or not yet.
Aug 09th, 2014 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So I was reading Zaffaroni's comments regarding Griesa and his position in the judiciary and it got me to thinking. Virtually every statement he made regarding him was materially incorrect. Not matters of degree or shades of color - simply wrong.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Similarly, much of the descriptions Cretina and Elvis give regarding not only the structural but functional aspects of various foreign institutions is obviously lacking or again totally incorrect.
Others in the administration sometimes exhibit slightly more accuracy but often substantially less on the same topics.
Now in addition to being humorous to those of us who are slightly better informed it got me to thinking - particularly since their endless string of aberrant behavior has now been demonstrated - to them - to be unproductive to the point of possibly wrecking an already fragile economy:
What is the deal?
Are they - the entire regime - this incredibly misinformed?
Is there a education/intelligent quotient anomaly between Argentina and the Northern Hemisphere? Things can happen in nature. North Koreans - for example - are now measurably shorter than there South Korean counterparts and this occurred in a span of only 60 years.
Or are they simply so used to bending the truth without an independent third estate that they know that no one will hold them accountable?
Come on! Some of the stuff that they are spouting is so obviously fabricated that the world can barely keep a straight face while they are delivering it. It's almost certain that the Obama administration finds this humorous (and ironic) since they previously tried to intervene on their behalf. And I am reasonably certain that Griesa has never seen a circus like this one in his entire career. Most of the Wall Street pundits are standing there slack jawed waiting for the next stunt out of BA.
What gives? Ignorance? Unabashed misrepresentation? Psychosis? Delusions?
The floor is open. PLEASE enlighten me. lol
@36
Aug 10th, 2014 - 01:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0So you have inside knowledge of Chinese Govt Policy that no-one else has heard of and you post it here? Wow! Risky strategy. Do your political masters know what you are doing?
A State Secret that could change the Foreign Policy of USA/ EU?
And you told me first? I am honoured!
:)
#37 “ Or are they simply so used to bending the truth without an independent third estate that they know that no one will hold them accountable?”
Aug 10th, 2014 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are spot on!
They have been getting away with this over the Falkland's for so long that they now think they can employ the same tactics on other countries. Bullies are like that. Unfortunately for them they have taken on the United States of America a country that has, ironically, bent over backwards to appease them. Well the recent attacks on the probity of US courts and the US Judge has changed all that.
Good one Christina and Co, you deserve everything that you are going to get.
@39
Aug 10th, 2014 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Equally they are so used to being able to manipulate the judiciary at home it has freaked them out having to deal with a NYC judge and have resorted to underhand ad hominen attacks which will do them NO favours.
Twattery on all counts.
Kicillof may want to get his affairs in order.... Get a bail bondsman or book a flight on con air if you go somewhere that has extradition in place with the U.S.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 04:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0The headline of this article;
Aug 10th, 2014 - 04:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Despite warning, Kicillof again defies and again accuses Griesa of 'partiality'”
Do they not understand that this attitude just makes it worse and that they are now preventing any confidence in FDI in the future?
Self-important idiots are wrecking a country!
Fun to watch, but millions will have their lives destroyed by these lying corrupt politicos.
I'm surprised at many of the posts here. These people know full well that all of this
Aug 10th, 2014 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0talk is of a worthless nature outside of the bowl. This is all a SHOW for the scores of uninformed people on social welfare. This is the persona of an Argentine. Weak, uninformed, defiant, poorly educated, corrupt, victimized, angry, enemy seeking and unaccountable. This for public sentiment when the wheel has fallen off the wagon, just as the Falklands issue always surfaces when things start going poorly. They need to feel loved like all narcissists so they look for flammable issues to ignite sympathy among the masses. They need the US as their enemy to fight for the little Argentine battler. Sooner or later Argentina will pay the holdouts. It just won't be while the current thieves are in power. They are way too busy stealing to deal with this type of issue.
@32, 34, 36. You shouldn't be so concerned. This day when Europe and the USA are supposed to be wiped off the map? You won't be alive to see it!
Aug 10th, 2014 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 043 So it's endemic? And universal?
Aug 10th, 2014 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it's endemic and universal! There are, of course, exceptions as always and they are the ones that milk the system. Their money (Dollars) is and has been out of the country for many years and they bring it in when opportunities arise and take out the spoils when they feel pressure from the socialists who want to take it from them in the form of taxes. Big money is coming in now as the CFK terror is ending. They know that goofy and the gang can't hold on long and are bringing dollars in now getting ready for the big devaluation so they can scoop up the assets of the ones who panic and will sell for whatever dollars they can get their hands on. This is the cycle, about every 10 to 15 years. There is one important difference this time. Foreigners can't buy more than 1000 hectares ( some provinces are higher) so that means that the competition will be much less this time. Property prices there are going down like the Titanic right now and the big money is flooding in from the outside by Argentines, but when the bubble pops this time, there will be no foreigners to help stabilize prices at some point. A lot of people say that it won't be as bad as 2001. I disagree. It won't be the same, it never is, but it will be bad. The real inflation is 40% minimum and you can't buy anything for 100 pesos today. People buy on credit and make monthly payments on their credit cards at 25% interest and I am talking about food here! Everything is controlled by the Government and the black market is thriving far more than the white one. That's what happens when socialists put controls on everything, the black market IS the market. I hate to see it, but it's coming.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 046. Interesting.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For comparison: 2,400 acres (971 hectares or 4 square miles) of Story County, Iowa 250 bushel basis corn ground should cost you about $24,000,000 U.S..
So, what is the the 1,000 hectares of prime Arg corn ground going to cost me?
It depends on the area, but around Cordoba it will be about 5000 usd per hectar (2.45 acres). Save your money, the price will fall shortly and bargains will abound.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47. If you time it right? About a dollar. There isn't much in argieland that's worth more than a dollar. If you happen to be out there and fancy a bit of “action”, knock on an upmarket door. If it does anything for you, offer a dime. Don't go higher than a quarter. There isn't anything in argieland worth more. If the “husband” or “John” turns up, tell him to take his turn. You've paid, right?
Aug 10th, 2014 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here it is Elvis.
Aug 10th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Splain it to me.
“Notwithstanding the foregoing, Argentina’s obligations to make payments of principal and interest on the New Securities shall not have been satisfied until such payments are received by registered holders of the New Securities.”
I can't hear you Elvis? Could you please repeat that a little louder?
And how exactly are you not in default?
42 ilsen
Aug 10th, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure that they WANT to be found “in contempt” - punishment for their actions will, in their minds, justify doing whatever they want, and playing the victim.
They will argue that is an unfair personal vendetta of the presiding judge because he is angered, and they have nothing to lose.
“I won't be a victim. I hate people who say they're being victimized.” ~Cristina Kirchner. lol
Aug 11th, 2014 - 04:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's important to look into Kicillof's background. He was hatched after a liaison between a psychoanalyst and a psychologist. Think about that. He's 43. at one time he specialised in “social sciences”. Are mendacity, larceny, fraud “social” sciences? He has a wonderful CV. Deputy General Manager of Aerolineas. Well into the YPF theft. Now he's leading argieland into one of its biggest disasters. He's probably unemployable now. Not much of a problem, he's a member of La Campora. What does his future hold? How much money has he stashed?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Emanates from bilateral agreements between China and Argentina that obligations will be led by the law and the courts of England.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Minister Axel Kicillof gave banks and Chinese companies finance investments in Argentina a similar international legal protection to which the government questioned the vulture funds. The annexes to the treaties were signed, the Economy Minister agreed special jurisdiction to chinese firms and accepted the intervention of foreign courts to settle any potential disputes. This arises from the bilateral agreements which stipulates that obligations will be governed by the law and the courts of England.
It also provides that any arbitration shall be in the International Chamber of Commerce, based in Paris.
Kicillof agreed to step down as “irrevocable and unconditional” objection raised to any future international tribunals chosen by Argentina and China.
The assignment of judicial sovereignty is explicit in loans for retrofitting “Belgrano Cargas”. The 1071 decree is already known and the extension of jurisdiction is located in the leafy Annex 400 folios. But the concessions would be similar in loans for hydroelectric megaprojects Santa Cruz and other financial agreements to be signed today with Xi Jinping methodology would have the same format as that included in the leonine agreement with Chevron.
The current argentine government hides the text because its diffusion entail a high political cost. Delivering Kicillof judicial sovereignty contradicts the “story” Cristina Kirchner's own against the clauses that were granted in foreign debt in favor of the courts of Manhattan, where the conflict is settled with vulture funds. Cristina made this a flag and questioned the previous governments that accepted external courts, like Thomas Griesa.
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