MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina/holdouts, a clash between 'global financial power and political power'
A Judge from Argentina's Supreme Court joined the ongoing battle in New York between the Argentine government and the holdouts and slashed out at the US Supreme Court for rejecting to take the case back in June. Eugenio Zaffaroni argued that the conflict must be addressed in the context of “attacks from the global financial power on political power”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesZaffaroni dismisses Griesa as a provincial judge, and blames the US Supteme Court - they didn't even hear the case.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 02:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Judge Lorenzetti, does not dispute that Griesa is a Federal Judge, and agrees to pay as long as there is no impact on “human rights” in Argentina.
They can't even get their stories straight, but they both want to dictate terms.
Really, according to Contract Law, the debt must be paid - it is already written down to 30% of what it should be.
It is up to Argentina whether they affect basic human rights to raise the money.
Perhaps if they were to hold corrupt politicians and government administrators accountable for the money they stole, and demanded restitution from them , the ordinary people would be less affected.
Oops, don't have the will or the way to do thst - that's your fault, Argentina.
More like a clash between reality and la-la land
Aug 11th, 2014 - 02:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ Zaffaroni who is an expert in human rights law, and is considered the Judge at the Argentine Supreme Court closest to the administration of President Cristina Fernandez. ”
Aug 11th, 2014 - 03:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0CFK: “ Axel, we're in trouble. Can't we come up with something better to maintain the stall on our default, the one that we say doesn't exist ? ”
AXEL: “ Hey Babe, I'm still having difficulty with my neckties. What about one of the Jurists in our pocket ? ”
CFK: “ Great ! Who do you suggest ? ”
AXEL: “ Well, I don't know who they actually are by name. ”
CFK: “ Hell, where is the list of our judges in our pay. ” throwing papers off the desk. 4 hours later:
CFK: “ Lets see.... Hmmm... Hey, how about Zaffaroni ? ”
AXEL: “Thanks, I was getting hungry. I thought you'd never ask. ”
CFK: “ No idiot, Eugenio Zaffaroni on our Supreme Court. We pay him ”
AXEL: “ Uh, He is ? I mean, Oh He IS ! Well then , OK by me. I approve.
Can we order something to eat now ? ”
3
Aug 11th, 2014 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL !!!!
Yer killin' me !!!!
:-D
District Judge?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 05:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Idiot, the mans a Harvard Educated, Senior Federal Judge.!!!!!
Even their judges are incapable of telling the truth,
These pathetic utterances are just examples of how useless the legal system is in Argentina. The entire political and legal hierarchy of the country is clearly not fit for purpose.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0What antic come next?
What an indictment , if Zarrabollocks were to say the opposite to the party line he would be sacked and therefore be made virtually unemployable. You have got to hand it to these third world countries, keep your enemies close but keep your friends closer, that way you can keep control. The Government borrowed the money on behalf of the Argentinian populace, the people that Zarrabollocks should be thinking about are the persons that lent their hard earned cash to Argie. What about THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS YOU DICKHEADS. So one sided is ARGIELAND
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0all arg idiotic officials turn everything into the wrong direction:
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0“...a battle of the finance against the state...” - bullshit as usual.
the arg robberment under cfk and her criminal gang fight against contractual rights of international and arg bondholders, in order to deceive their savings. okay - the funds don´t suffer a loss of savings but thousands of privates. mostly elder people who lost their pensions. and the funds have the same rights as everybody.
the arg officials just fight for their fortunes. these would be confiscated if a normal justice could work in arg.
Argentina doesn't even want to disguise that it believes in political interference in the judicial process.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Funny how they shout 'human rights' over this whilst saying at the same time that the Falkland Islanders don't have any - hypocrisy anyone?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 3 BOTINHO
Aug 11th, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0PMSL, great, I had a clear mental picture of that!
The article just underlines the extent to which the judiciary have been corrupted to TMBOA will.
Disgraceful.
It is no wonder Argentina is a failed state with idiots like this on their
Aug 11th, 2014 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Supreme Court”. Good gracious they are doomed to failure.
All the legitimate news outlets are pointing out the K failures, their delusions, ineptitude. I wonder what took so long?
BCRA is disallowing HUGE amounts of imports, medicine (!!) and essential imports that are required to keep mfg going.
If they don't get this default over with in short order they will be in serious trouble.
I don't see how they think a consortium of banks/business can rescue them.
I couldn't be happier.
Zaffaroni is described as “centre-left”. So he's a middle-of-the-road nutjob. Most definitely a Kirchnerist. It's quite amazing how they keep trotting out these government-briefed hacks. Don't they realise that people can look things up? Not argies of course. Brainwashed from birth, most don't even try for the truth. Read material from the UK, US or other respected historians? Is your internet link monitored? Does the power suddenly go off due to the actions of Anglo-American saboteurs? Anyone else thinking of updated 21st century nazism?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is the poster boy of how to destroy a country. It started with Peron and the Peronists are still going strong today. With the absence of rule of law and free markets crony capitalism and poverty will prevail. Typical of Peronists is the demonization of the opposition calling them “vultures”. The fact is that Griesa had an easy job. He read the agreements and concluded rightly that Argentina nedded to pay.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Emanates from bilateral agreements between China and Argentina that obligations will be led by the law and the courts of England.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Minister Axel Kicillof gave banks and Chinese companies finance investments in Argentina a similar international legal protection to which the government questioned the vulture funds. The annexes to the treaties were signed, the Economy Minister agreed special jurisdiction to chinese firms and accepted the intervention of foreign courts to settle any potential disputes. This arises from the bilateral agreements which stipulates that obligations will be governed by the law and the courts of England.
It also provides that any arbitration shall be in the International Chamber of Commerce, based in Paris.
Kicillof agreed to step down as “irrevocable and unconditional” objection raised to any future international tribunals chosen by Argentina and China.
The assignment of judicial sovereignty is explicit in loans for retrofitting “Belgrano Cargas”. The 1071 decree is already known and the extension of jurisdiction is located in the leafy Annex 400 folios. But the concessions would be similar in loans for hydroelectric megaprojects Santa Cruz and other financial agreements to be signed today with Xi Jinping methodology would have the same format as that included in the leonine agreement with Chevron.
The current argentine government hides the text because its diffusion entail a high political cost. Delivering Kicillof judicial sovereignty contradicts the “story” Cristina Kirchner's own against the clauses that were granted in foreign debt in favor of the courts of Manhattan, where the conflict is settled with vulture funds. Cristina made this a flag and questioned the previous governments that accepted external courts, like Thomas Griesa.
Spam. Same post on more than one post.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/166834/gov%E2%80%99t-insists-it-is-not-involved-in-talks-between-banks-holdouts
Aug 11th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Capitanich also mentioned Argentina’s legal case against the US in The Hague and urged the Obama Administration to “provide a peaceful solution” for the dispute, saying “it is responsible for the actions of one of its branches”.
Is Argentina at war with the USA now? Oh yes....cuntlips did say that the attacks from speculators and vulture funds are not unlike the PLO being attacked by Israel. When will someone truly attack her?
17. When you first started posting on here I think you were questioning why I was so hostile against the gov't. Do you understand now?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are delusional and so corrupted they don't have a clue how things are supposed to work.
Its an upside down world in Argentina.
I believe it is endemic in the Arg Society.
You may know a few people who aren't like that but the majority of Rgs are just like the Ks.
The worse thing for any Society is indifference. At this point, after 75 YEARS of corrupted ineptitude I blame the whole Society.
I really wonder if it can ever be stopped?
Soon, very soon, it will be the height of fashion for a Paraguayan to have a maid from Argentina.
I never questioned you attacking the governmnet. Assuredly I have no quams with attacking the RG government. And I do know more than a few but as I said they are not typical Argentines as they are not Kirchnerites nor Peronistas. Believe mew I am not naive I know how much corruption there is down there, I know they a a mafia like state.....it is what it is. I still refuse to paint all of them in that manner.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think we can't compare cultures. Most Argentines have been inculcated to have a certain moral stance that doesn't sit well with us but within their society it is accepted. Some of the behaviour of friends there really makes me question their morals but, ultimately, I don't live there and I prefer to focus on their good points. I have an equal number of friends - especially if they have travelled - that can't stand the 'nick-a-quid' off anyone behaviour of Argentines.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where I have no sympathy is when they whine when it all goes wrong. Or complain and don't do anything about it. Or when faced with dealing with the world outside Argentina they cannot abide by the rules they signed up to. It doesn't work outside of Argentina.
I don't feel hostility to the average Argentinean but my bullshit monitor is set to maximum.
20. Can't compare cultures? Ridiculous!
Aug 11th, 2014 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is like saying oh well killing gays and eating them is part of their culture so its okay. Its not what we do so just ignore it.
That is the whole problem with the inane PC b/s, the everything is okay, culture. I call it out where ever and when ever something is clearly wrong.
14 wesley mouch
Aug 11th, 2014 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0While it's a tempting narrative to blame the beginning of the demise on Peron it's not actually true. It was the “Infamous Decade” of the 1930s that began the collapse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infamous_Decade
Peron was just the military despot that created a landscape which prevented it ever recovering.
@21 We are never going to agree on this but imposing my culture on other countries is not my remit. Observing is.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Personally, it doesn't stop me criticising another government. I don't get angry with the average Argentine because if everyone is scamming everyone they must expect to be scammed. They are all playing by the same rules. The problem comes when one expects them to play by ones own rules. I basically don't trust any transaction involving money in Argentina and challenge anything I think is an attempt to con me. But I don't feel angry at everyone because of it. They live like that but I don't.
Elaine is right yb. It's like not understanding why everyone in this world does not want a house, a summer home, a boat.......big screen TV's etc.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've been in the boots a long time and seen us...the US trying to help by inflecting our ways onto others and it does not always work and usually does not work. As an American i can say that we need to think beyond the greenback. SE Asia, the Middleast, SW Asia.......we still can't accept that other nations (a their people)can be different and do not want what we want.
That aside, I agree with you on the Kirchner's......She should be removed with prejudice.........although, by her own because there are enough that want her ousted.
Emanates from bilateral agreements between China and Argentina that obligations will be led by the law and the courts of England.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Minister Axel Kicillof gave banks and Chinese companies finance investments in Argentina a similar international legal protection to which the government questioned the vulture funds. The annexes to the treaties were signed, the Economy Minister agreed special jurisdiction to chinese firms and accepted the intervention of foreign courts to settle any potential disputes. This arises from the bilateral agreements which stipulates that obligations will be governed by the law and the courts of England.
It also provides that any arbitration shall be in the International Chamber of Commerce, based in Paris.
Kicillof agreed to step down as “irrevocable and unconditional” objection raised to any future international tribunals chosen by Argentina and China.
The assignment of judicial sovereignty is explicit in loans for retrofitting “Belgrano Cargas”. The 1071 decree is already known and the extension of jurisdiction is located in the leafy Annex 400 folios. But the concessions would be similar in loans for hydroelectric megaprojects Santa Cruz and other financial agreements to be signed today with Xi Jinping methodology would have the same format as that included in the leonine agreement with Chevron.
The current argentine government hides the text because its diffusion entail a high political cost. Delivering Kicillof judicial sovereignty contradicts the “story” Cristina Kirchner's own against the clauses that were granted in foreign debt in favor of the courts of Manhattan, where the conflict is settled with vulture funds. Cristina made this a flag and questioned the previous governments that accepted external courts, like Thomas Griesa.
24 I agree with the sentiment. As a former Empire the British left our mark and elements of our culture around the world but the main incentive was always to control trade. Trade = wealth. I personally don't think one style of government fits all. But as I said before, I have no sympathy when they whine about it if it all goes wrong. As it does frequently in Argentina.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The US has a wider remit in the present day as the only superpower. I definitely think it is something that is being debated in the US. Why should you have to go and get involved in all the conflicts around the world. (Obviously, you don't) But if the only superpower looks away as has happened a lot under Obama then the kids play up and it leaves room for other powers to take up the slack. You know Obama told Hillary Clinton that he wanted her to handle foreign policy because he just didn't have time. Now, it is true he inherited a financial crisis but no POTUS should be seen to not care about foreign policy. IMO. It was a bad mistake, it allowed Putin room to manoeuvre.
A bit off track but whilst I don't agree with the way Argentina is run and the attitude of many of its inhabitants, it is their shit to live in, not mine, so it doesn't make me hate them. I can walk away.
Great POV Elaine. I think the one's that are more middle ground in Argentina are too few and realize that. If they stand up they are likely to be pushed down.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One thing certain in the USA, It's been a very bad 2000's for us and in some respect the world, fwith respect to leadership and foreign policy. Partisan politics is kings for 15 years now.
The Chicago-based printing firm RR Donnelley announced that it is shuting down operations in Argentina due to an “insurmountable crisis”
Aug 11th, 2014 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first of many?
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/166840/printing-giant-rr-donelley-files-for-bankruptcy-leaves-the-country
Where do they find these clowns? A supreme court composed of buffoons.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No need to attempt to conceal it. I am totally enjoying the meltdown of rotting roadkill this morning.
28. Does RRD print the telephone directory for BA?
I'm an Argie. Our people doesn't understand economics nor laws. It's like they live in a world without definitions, where things can be changed by will when they don't like outcomes. Government generate the conditions to expulse business and then makes sure the workers blame business when business close their doors. Poor people, believe only in what is immediately perceived by the senses. Economics are ruled by what is unseen and statistics. The effects of bad commercial policies will haunt them forever like: reducing productivity and rentability or profitability.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why can't they go to read basic economic books? I mean, the knowledge is available for everyone. Instead they act like middle age lords, inflating nationalism and flags. Modern world is ruled by numbers, by indexes, where everything is measured from business environment, to juridical security, to conflict increase... Populism only thinks in votes and the will of the majority, no matter if they're wrong or not. So a bit of poison is not bad, if the majority wants it through propaganda.
@21
Aug 11th, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess you don't call it out enough, the 'everything's OK culture'.
They are rioting in the middle USA, burning gas stations and looting markets after police shot an unarmed BLACK teenager dozens of times.
@21
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, culture has real outcomes, measurable effects, like life span, quality of life. Though, I suppose a relativist would come and say “a long life span can't be determined if it is good or bad or better than a short one”
Is that your perception of the USA from....China?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA
30. Did you learn the 1/2 truth and outright lies directly from CFK herself? Or is it just a bad education?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am pretty sure I know.
26. Obama is the worst Prez we've had in a century. Weak, stupid and lazy. Really terrible combination for the leader of the free world. Luckily he'll be gone in another 2 yrs and with divine grace we will get a leader that knows how to wield our power correctly. Its too bad that the world has to suffer for too many unqualified people being allowed to vote. I hope they learned their lesson and so far it looks like they have.
28. This is the beginning of many more to come. There is no reason for any Int'l company to have mfg in Argentina. None whatsoever.
Just wait until the devalue again and the inflation goes over 50%.
Yankeeboy: I don't respect their half truths, misinformation and misconceptions. I do believe and comply to the laws of commerce. Contracts and compromises should be respected. I really dislike Zaffaroni.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Our government doesn't seem to be prepared for the tasks, they're ignorant of economics, laws, ethics, governance, etc. I am sorry for our government. I have never voted for them, but the options are bad too. I don't think our people is ready to vote for a serious party, which doesn't do populism and rejects forced distribution as Education is very low and full of propaganda.
@32 Obama has been at best disappointing but I think much worse than that. I think many people had great hopes for him but he seems out of his depth for the most part and distant. You have to flatter the egos in D.C. to get anything done, not sit and sulk.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no dog in the fight but as a world citizen I want someone with a good understanding of world politics with their hand on the rudder of the only superpower. The US cannot wield the power without the responsibility and I don't think for one moment they want to give up the power. Why would they.
What happened to the days when TTT actually contributed to a debate? It is just irrelevant ranting now.
36. If we are lucky he'll keep on the same path for the next 2 years and destroy the Democrat party like Carter did. It will take them 30 yrs or a generation to recover like last time.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If we have a terrorist attack on our soil or he gives amnesty to illegals you'll not see another Dem elected in my lifetime.
Toby checked out when the realization that everything I've been telling him is coming to pass. Pretty soon he'll have to choose between internet and food. It shouldn't be too long now.
“Its too bad that the world has to suffer for too many unqualified people being allowed to vote.”
Aug 11th, 2014 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yb I really hate jumping on you but when you make statements like that because you do have some insight, that is diminished with.....or how about you don't pay taxes you should not vote.....really?
It is more than the egos in American politics these days. It's party over country. When an exactly bill is brought up that the opposing party brought up themselves several years prior and it is voted down because now it is the other party that brought it up........it's really bad. The two party caucus sucks. Democrats spend into oblivion and republicans send off warriors wagging the tail.
Bush got he world to hate us, Obama got the world to piss on us and hate us even more.
@38 “It's party over country.” That is a really interesting point. The Founding Fathers did not anticipate political parties believing the greater good of the country would override all. (They were republicans with a small 'r') They miscalculated that one. Now when you talk to a lot of Americans, politics are treated like the Italians treat football. You join a team for life and it is team first. That makes it impossible to achieve pretty much anything.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is much that is great about the U.S. but they seem to have lost the plot on that one. I would start by severely limiting the budget on elections.
@20
Aug 11th, 2014 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can anyone that really has their head straight re-read this post and not come up with the conclusion the individual who redacted this is one wild, refractory masochist?
40 Alistair Nigel (EUian)
Aug 11th, 2014 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and so says the poster who can not keep the same identity for more than 5 minutes...........
Ha, ha, ha!!! way to go Tobi, way to go..........
What does identity diversity have do to with masochism?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 038 captain Poppy
Aug 11th, 2014 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It is more than the egos in American politics these days. It's party over country. When an exactly bill is brought up that the opposing party brought up themselves several years prior and it is voted down because now it is the other party that brought it up........it's really bad. The two party caucus sucks. ”
Very insightful post!
That's certainly what it looks like from here, up in Canada.
US politics are so adversarial, that it looks like many good intentions are deliberately frustrated, and many opportunities are lost.
We have our own problems in government to deal with, one party vilifying another, but as neighbours, we hope you can work together for the benefit of the US overall.
This intra-Anglo suck fest is so turpitudinous. I am ashamed for your all.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#44 tobi, why bother changing names, your personality is like your finger? Though your rants and ramblings can change with the wind of your Carrie personalities, whatever it may be that day.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes it is bad Troy. I do not particularly scribe to one party or another as I am a man that goes by issue to issue. But, that being said, no country will ever get themselves into an RG situation. Remember that old saying, he was “Borked” when you was brought up for a SCOTUS seat( I guess he should never had fired the Special Prosecutor for Nixon)? May we can use the term, they pulled an RG?......lol
Not long now to the Republican Primary Battle, the best comedy show in the world! Surely the most self destructive contest that exists. Fat man personifying America vs nutjob ranting thin man…
Aug 11th, 2014 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looking forward to it. RG politics pales into insignificance alongside it
American primary battles? What is that?
Aug 11th, 2014 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The USA has no real political parties. A “republic” that has only two political parties (sp. the same two for 100s of years), is about as genuine as a submarine with a pool deck.
A real republic is a MULTIparty democracy, which means more than two. When you just have two parties, then your choice against the one you wish to vote out, is no choice at all now is it.
Therefore, the party out of power only has to hope the country does poorly while out of power in order to regain it, instead of actually working hard to develop innovative and positive messages due to the fact their future election to power is not just a formality due to the “failure” of the other.
Thus what you see in the USA today: two ossified parties that only need the enemy to “fail” in power (best way to achieve that is through obstruction, obfuscation, and obdurateness, what I call the OOOs), and the whole country with it, in order to win.
And that explains the decline of the USA for half a century now since their cultural/economic pinnacle in the 1950s and 1960s.
@47
Aug 11th, 2014 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By the way, how's the Zaffaroni in Mendoza? Does your mom have a white or red sauce recipe?
@48
Aug 11th, 2014 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too ashamed of your sham-republic to stay on topic. Undeststandable.
Poor (literally) tobi. So jealous of everything not Argentine I can smell it from here. Your self image is laughable. You are the one case we are laughing at you not with you.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell us what you will do as the effects of the default take root once the world realizes that the banks will not safe Argentina? Will the kangaroo judge zappawhateverroni lash out with another tongue lashing? Will HE be forced to close his supreme whorehouses? No jobs tobi......but that matters none to you, you are incapable of self support........momma does that.
Have you counted the strikes? Teachers...bankers...farmers....industrialists are complaining
POOR ARGENTINA.........Capitanich is pleading with Washington to intercede claiming they are responsible for the judges. Don't you juveniles realizes here......judges are not on strings like there?
@49
Aug 11th, 2014 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Project much? lol
My ass-essment of the US political system was both succinct, perspicacious, and luculent. Whether you two refuse to accept it or not is irrelevant. The reality remains so.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was thinking today about the way RR Donnelley pulled out of Argentina. It is really the only way it can be done in these types of countries.
Aug 11th, 2014 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing I would have done differently is gotten the US execs out of the country the same weekend.
I wonder if they did?
I think you'll see a lot of these closing happening soon. There is no reason for anyone to mfg in Argentina.
I think the car companies will be packing up shortly.
Once they go they will never go back.
Just leave everything and shut the doors.
Reminds my of Atlas Shrugged.
Then what?
Now I understand you completely.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Atlas Shrugged.
You truly believe people who have money are inherently superior, and more worthy human beings, and thus should be treated with deference, be always given the benefit of the doubt, even in crime, and “steer” society including selective breeding of population.
But I always have said you think the rich have more rights than the poor.
18
Aug 12th, 2014 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've got to ask the question...WTF has it got to do with you...?
I stayed in Germany for quite some time....but their politics are meaningless to me...I don't care what they do....
Why are you so bothered...infatuated more like or obsessed....with the possible decline of Argentina...
Why should you it bother you...?
55. Bother me? It doesn't bother me in the least. I find it fascinating to watch.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is not a “possible” decline it is inevitable. The train lost the breaks a long time ago, its going around a curve now and these idiots are increasing the speed.
So I answered you, why does a half wit from Scotland have any interest here? You rarely comment on articles or generally on Argentina. So why are you here?
BTW looks like your dream of Independence is quickly fading. The polls look pretty bad on the referendum. You'd have to be pretty stupid to want to split from England anyway, thank goodness level heads seem to be prevailing.
56 YB
Aug 12th, 2014 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Voice”, the over-aged bully, is likely just “Think's” Scots-like incarnation.
He is only on here to direct attention to himself.
This venue will do as well as any other.
57. It is 2am in Scotland. Seems like a great time to post to me.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 01:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think seems to have that problem too. Very often posting at 2-3 am and thinking the sun is rising in Chubut...in the winter.
:)
58
Aug 12th, 2014 - 01:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0:-D
There are racial riots in middle NorthAmoland from the assassination of an unarmed teenager and the British Territory Gibraltar has been declared by the EU as a lawless gang-ridden and corrupt smuggling center.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think you two have more pressing matters to attend to.
The 46-year-old former investment banker came to Argentina from Spain after seeing the potential for great wines in the fine-grained soil and clear skies of the Uco Valley. But he is now among the successful growers stung by an inflation rate that some economists say is close to 40%, affecting everything from milk to movie-ticket prices.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0This year has also been grim. According to Bodegas, exports of bottled, boxed and other individually packaged wine fell 5.5%, to 77 million liters, in the first five months of 2014. The trade group says the value of wine exports fell 3.6% in the period, to $301 million, and export volume to the U.S., Argentina's biggest market, slipped nearly 8%, Bodegas says.
“It's not because of the wine or how they managed their brands,” says Stephen Rannekleiv, a wine and spirit analyst at Rabobank Group. “The inflation issue is really out of their hands.”
Wine has been hit harder than agricultural products like soy because picking the grapes is so labor intensive. Analysts say producers' costs have risen at least 100% in the past four years.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/argentinas-wine-exports-get-squeezed-by-inflation-1407527583
I think the only business that is increasing is the meth trade.
I think this is why Toby is so angry.
Psst...told ya so
and I hope you didn't sell your sugar stockpile. Its not time yet.
Sounds like he'd be well advised to start stockpiling ephedrine.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry about the wine industry. Winemakers and winery owners are FAR long term investors. They must be by nature anyway.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0When you plant vines, you won't really make a profit until at least 10 years down the line, since the first 5 years you get no wine at all, and the next 5 you get mediocre, low acidity wines. And even then you don't know how to produce well until 10 years after that, since you must go through a decade of climate plus a decade of understanding how the terroir affects grapes in each plot of the vineyard.
No real winemaker would simply say “ok I fold” due to one down year, especially after 14 years of uninterrupted growth.
You clearly have no understanding of the wine industry whatsoever.
You really shouldn't speak of things of which I have far greater acumen and insight.
Which is most things, but most certainly this one.
That wasn't my opinion but an Rg winemaker talking to the WSJ.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think he knows a bit more than you
Obviously
Its funny you think this down turn will only last a year.
My guess it'll be a closer to a generation.
I hear the banks are requesting 500/1000 peso notes. Any idea what the next currency will be called?
Looks like this ones just about done.
:)
You know that back in 2001 (far worse than this), the WSJ and many others said the depression would last a decade or more????
Aug 12th, 2014 - 03:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Want me to bring you the articles?
Thats because they assumed the Ks wouldn't steal roughly U$ 25 B /year from private enterprises to pump the economy full of pesos.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Since that would be crazy.
Yet here we are.
This nutbag regime and their idiotic followers will be studied for years.
How to ruin a country in 10 easy steps.
BTW we will all have to wait to see the real GDP figures after the nutbags leave. My guess is its much much worse than even the most pessismistic projections.
I love the way RR Donelly is pulling out of Argentina. The labor Minister is pulling some Conciliatory period to guarantee jobs. HE is going to guarantee jobs when they are filing for bankruptcy?
Aug 12th, 2014 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The first of many I suspect. This is the finishing touches of the decade of destruction. I bet cuntlips is cursing bugeyes for dying. I say he knew what he was doing......and planned his death.....lol
I read the article and cannot see how the government can guarantee the jobs. RR Donelly have locked the door to prevent theft of the equipment. ( Very wise) And the workers stood at the locked gates, scratched their heads a bit and then blocked the road to protest the 'illegal' closure. (Very unwise)
Aug 12th, 2014 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I guess the government has another 400 people being paid to do nothing. How can they afford it?
58
Aug 12th, 2014 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Every time without fail, the moment you leave your pet whine (subject) you expose your ignorance and stupidity....
Look again at the time of my post....
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/08/11/argentina-holdouts-a-clash-between-global-financial-power-and-political-power#comment344363
Now.... half wit that is UTC 12.07 a.m.....add one hour to make it BST......
You STUPID...DUMB .....shaved head...Fatboy...Fred Bates...the estate agent...
What's wrong...did your Argentine ex-wife take you for everything....;-)
I did mention Atlas Shrugged and lo and behold , CFk is trying to pass an even more stringent and criminal price control regime.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Set prices for goods...check
Set “acceptable” profit margins...check
and the best one
Confiscation of good without a court order
FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE
double check
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse
or better
depending on where you are watching from
:)
Of all the strikes I've previously mentioned......and now....(wait for it) Aerolinas is striking ! Of course, this is probably good from a safety POV
Aug 12th, 2014 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/166919/pilot-strike-halts-aerol%C3%ADneas-argentinas-flights-
I think some of the long haul jets currently being used by Aerolinas were put into service right around the same time as most of the La Campora children currently running the company were born! :)
Aug 12th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would never never never fly that airline. I am shocked they're still allowed to land in the USA.
Even grossly overpaid and under worked pilots don't want to see their wages eaten up with 40% inflation.
Maybe Think or one of the other old timers can tell us in the civilized world how prices/wages etc are adjusted when there's hyperinflation?
Does everyone get a raise every day?
coming soon to a theater near you
YankeeBoy,
Aug 12th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another personal insult attack from VoiceThink, you must have hit close to home to get a reaction like that!
73. Its funny to see hims sputter and gnash his teeth tho.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh btw let me correct myself, it was 1am not 2am. Maybe that'll make him feel better about making a fool out of himself everyday.
Bahahahaha
He still refuses to answer why he is here everyday, rarely posting about the article or generally about Argentina. Merely trolling about stuff he clearly knows nothing about.
Sad thing is, like Think, when he does post something on topic its usually wrong, but not a little wrong, so wrong its like he's living in a different space/time continuum than the rest of us.
You people just can't get over it can you? Argentina has rejected Europe, North America, and capitalism. F---- accept it and stop being so vane? Maybe you offer nothing to Argentina and that's why she does not react differently.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aren't CFK and co the ultimate opportunists and populists? So they would immediately jump on a good opportunity.
What an indictment of the growing decline and lack of power of EUialand and NorthAmoland that even such venal characters are now beyond your influence.
Look at Russia, the Middle east, China and beyond for further proof of how rapidly your influence is eroding. NO ONE is listening to you..
That's called “irrelevance”.
Sorry for the reality check.
Yes they are the camp airlines for sure. Anyone that flies on them are from the lab or an idiot and that is difficult to distinguish one from the other.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are about to roll out new controls to help prices drop. WTF! How stupid are they? In it's simplest form......no imports =no products to meet demand= increased costs. And are they really thinking businesses should be selling it for less than what they bought it for. Someone needs to grow balls over there.
yb remember that movie Idiosyncracy? That was really a documentary on the Argentine economic model.
Look at Venezuela, the largest oil reserves in the world and the poorest nation.........how does one reconcile that? They all take pride in being stupid. I wish just once the government would take that kid tobi's advice and leave the community of the developed world......but they hang on like parasites.
76. If the trend line continues they'll be as far out of the developed world as Bolivia in less than a decade.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which means the avg Rg,will not be able to afford the technology to communicate with the outside world.
If the car mfgs pull out as I expect them to they'll look like Bolivia even sooner.
What's your f--- problem with Bolivia you objectivist racialist??
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you read the Venezuela closed the border with Colombia because of smuggling.....not drugs, but food!! I am sure that ass paper is in the smuggling as well.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ass paper police......now food trafficking patrols......only in South American. It makes for great reading anyway......always a laugh a minute.
I agree, I think they will jump right past Venezuela and shoot straight for Bolivia. It will make it easier for all the poor to start farming cocoa leaves.
Argentina.......the land of nothing and going nowhere faster then the rest of the world. DPRK or bust!!!
78. La Paz, and the rest of Bolivia is the most disgusting place I have ever visited.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dirty and run down beyond belief.
Horrible people, horrible place I would never recommend going there for any reason whatsoever.
Well maybe if a USA kid needs a wake up call on how good his life is....
BTW in case you missed it, Bolivia is mad at all the Rgs using their much more stable currency to save. It has become a serious problem for them.
snicker
I see Capitanich was back on his knees yesterday imploring the US Government to intercede.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-calls-u-government-intervene-debt-case-155412903.html
“When it comes to a bilateral relationship with a sovereign country and the violation of its immunities, it is necessary for the executive branch to intervene,” Capitanich said. “The executive has a monopoly on relations with other countries.”
Perhaps mumbles forgot that Argentina waived their sovereign rights.....lol
“The United States is responsible for the actions of its branches of power, in this case the judicial branch, regardless of the independence of the functioning of those branches,” he said.
Obviously the fool does not realize the judges are not bought and sold on the market like in Argentina.
81. Did you see that AFIP is installing surveillance cameras in PRIVATELY OWNED businesses they THINK are cheating on their taxes!!
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0holy crap
What could be next???
DPRK..............I don't or won't condone a military insurrection, but I do for the people to rise and overthrow the government there. Mussolini her ass!!!! And all who support her and the lice she gave birth to.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bolivia has some beautiful places but the majority of people live in grinding poverty. It is the poorest country in South America with no clear way out.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yb Rr Donelly is a F500 company. It is probably cheaper for them to close like this rather then being milked from the RG government forever. They call it strange....of course they would, it's not like they understand what profitability means.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Run just run and don't look back.......lol
85. yep, lock the doors and don't look back either that or light it on fire.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 084. Bolivia is awful, to get to the nice scenery you have to deal with the dirty drunk people, horrible food and dangerous infrastructure. The only thing I thought was cool was the floating towns in Titicaca. Other than that you can see similar scenery in nicer places like Peru, Colombia, Chile. If anyone asks I say don't bother going.
79 capt Poppy
Aug 12th, 2014 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Did you read the Venezuela closed the border with Colombia because of smuggling.....not drugs, but food!! I am sure that ass paper is in the smuggling as well.
Ass paper police......now food trafficking patrols......only in South American. It makes for great reading ”
Just to be clear - the Columbians are buying food from Venezuela, that the public cannot afford to buy, if they could find it,
and the merchants cannot afford to sell to Venezuelans - because of the government imposed price controls
BTW I have to edit my statement above, There is absolutely no reason to go to Bolivia.
Aug 12th, 2014 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing I thought was nice was actually on the Peru side of Titicaca. in Puna.
I mistook something cool to be in Bolivia.
I should have known better
Venezuela be all you can be.......lol
Aug 13th, 2014 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like the bank consortium has or will fail in short order.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's the last and only for them to exit Default.
My guess, near the end of next month the Holdin bonds will begin the process Accelerate payment.
Which means the default will have to be fixed by the next Prez after 2016.
I saw some blurb about MNL going after Baez's holdings in Nevada and the judge is allowing it. Maybe this will blanketly expose the Kirchner's embezzling and corruption if nothing else.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 091. Gee why would you think somebody with 120+ LLCs in Nevada has something to hide?
Aug 13th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's your take on MNL's position with Baez to Argentina? The Nevada judge is opening the LLC's for MNL to review. Whether cuntlips of Baez accept it or not, they are going to be scrutinized.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 093. Its a way to embarrass the regime. As I've said before its not the confiscation of the assets for the monetary gain its to embarrass and harass them at every chance they can get.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Slowly making the noose tighter and tighter.
BTW I loved your metaphor of the default to a lifeboat at sea.
This default is beginning to make people edgy. They're running out of float at BCRA and it won't be long now until they can't import car parts and the factories will have to close.
When that happens it should be enough to drive the population into civil unrest.
What amazed me the most is that many are giddy because nothing happened overnight. They really cannot absorb the slow and gradual tightening that is coming their way. Just like they cannot understand how supply, or lack of it, in a stable and/or increasing demand affects prices. Or......restricting retail prices as costs continue to spiral out of control. Rr Donelly was smart......others with follow.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 095. They have no idea of the nasty storm brewing. It won't hit home until the mass layoffs and the blackouts.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The economic “perfect storm” self created no less.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm really sorry but I love to paste and copy this. The clowns fascist peronist NAZIonalists can't believe this is happening now.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Emanates from bilateral agreements between China and Argentina that obligations will be led by the law and the courts of England.
Minister Axel Kicillof gave banks and Chinese companies finance investments in Argentina a similar international legal protection to which the government questioned the vulture funds. The annexes to the treaties were signed, the Economy Minister agreed special jurisdiction to chinese firms and accepted the intervention of foreign courts to settle any potential disputes. This arises from the bilateral agreements which stipulates that obligations will be governed by the law and the courts of England.
Kicillof agreed to step down as “irrevocable and unconditional” objection raised to any future international tribunals chosen by Argentina and China.
The assignment of judicial sovereignty is explicit in loans for retrofitting “Belgrano Cargas”. The 1071 decree is already known and the extension of jurisdiction is located in the leafy Annex 400 folios. But the concessions would be similar in loans for hydroelectric megaprojects Santa Cruz and other financial agreements to be signed today with Xi Jinping methodology would have the same format as that included in the leonine agreement with Chevron.
Delivering Kicillof judicial sovereignty contradicts the “story” Cristina Kirchner's own against the clauses that were granted in foreign debt in favor of the courts of Manhattan, where the conflict is settled with vulture funds. Cristina made this a flag and questioned the previous governments that accepted external courts, like Thomas Griesa.
Wednesday, August 13, 2014
Aug 13th, 2014 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HSBC Buenos Aires offices raided by AFIP officials
AFIP tax bureau officials carried out three simultaneous raids at HSBC offices in Buenos Aires this afternoon as part of an investigation into alleged tax evasion and money laundering.
“AFIP officials will provide details of the operation taken place at 201 Florida street,” the official bureau informed in a press release.
Perhaps if they were truly concerned about money laundering they would be focusing on asslips kirchner
99. After the election.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HSBC is one of the best banks in customer attention. The State ones are awful.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@97 At least it is hitting CFK as she deserves and not her sucessor.
Aug 13th, 2014 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0102 MMaster
Aug 13th, 2014 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it's moving too fast - she's gonna end up wearing this.
:-)
Or piano wire
Aug 14th, 2014 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, geez - that's funny!
Aug 14th, 2014 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0:)
Aug 16th, 2014 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reading this a couple of things have occurred to me. First is that plainly Argentina (and Brazil) are moving more into the RMB Carry Trade and that the US hedge funds must be close to skirting Logan.
Aug 18th, 2014 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0sure... zzzzz zzz...
Aug 18th, 2014 - 06:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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