MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Nervous Cristina skirts New York court and pledges to service swapped bonds in Argentina
President Cristina Fernandez said on Tuesday her government will move to service its defaulted debt in Argentina or allow bondholders to swap their bonds for new bonds governed by national law in order to get around a U.S. court order. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesTo deny, delay and to cheat, it's the Argentine government way. Like the bit about 'Nervous Cristina'.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0There will be much wailing as Argentinian assets are seized. Wriggle room has disappeared. She is busy digging a bigger hole.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0It will be interesting to see if the exchange bondholders are willing to accepts a further reduction in the value of their assets - which is what this proposal really means in substance though not intention on the part of Argentina.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0When they say “identical terms and financial conditions, and with equal nominal value under Argentine law” it is the last three words that matter most. Bonds are freely tradeable on international markets and while the financial terms may be the same the fact that they would be governed by Argentine rather than US law devalues them on that market. It wouldn't matter to investors planning to hold the bonds to maturity - but as that is in the 2030s it is a long way off.
....so to summarise CFK is trying to give the exchange bondholders another haircut in her efforts to wriggle out of paying the holdouts.
This is good news for English bond holders. The yanks are so stupid.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0No wonder she is nervous, she is playing with the lives of millions on a whim.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0How much will bondholders charge to agree to this change? A number of them won't be able to hold these bonds if they are under Argentinean law due there will fall fall of their internal credit sanctions. This is badly thought out
The selfish woman should be very nervous.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ Herpes/ “British” bomber
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL, no doubt your dear old granny in 'Kingstown upon Hull' will be jumping for joy now the yanquee Bank of NY has been gazumped by BCRA. You are a one!
@6 She is constantly trying to be a show pony.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is the most telling comment:
“Likewise a financial columnist from La Nacion, Jorge Ovideo, calls the whole operation 'extremely dangerous' and could end in a major disaster. In effect some of the funds holding Argentine bonds are bound to US and New York jurisdiction for their investments. Besides how many financial agents would are challenge a ruling from a NY court.
“If the bet wasn't so dangerous, the president would have never wanted to share responsibility by making Congress and the opposition hostage of her battle cry ”motherland or 'vultures'””
It's typical operating proceedure, polarise and then force through whatever batshit crazy policies you can under the nationalistic banner.
Excellent decision! Payment must be made within the Argentine territory under Argentine laws and the Argentine money.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0The legal uncertainty of the West is unacceptable and impossible to continue the business.
@9 ha ha, legal uncertainty. You know nothing. All you'll get for Argentinean jurisdiction of these bonds is the legal certianty of uncertianty and corruption. I've already been asked about this story this morning by our credit department who do not see Argentinean jurisdiction as “as acceptable jurisdiction to govern these bonds”
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Totally agrees with Cristina this time - she has got it spot on
Aug 20th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0A country and it's creditors cannot be held ransom by a dysfunctional rogue hedge fund and a senile judge totally disconnected from world affairs and uninterested in the majority rights of millions of Argentinians
Let's get our money back in our own country so we can pay our legitimate creditors in good faith
@9
Aug 20th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0The facts of life: your new buddy, China, will only lend you hard cash ONLY IF the contract is bound under British law. Not in Argentina, Britain. Why is that? [The sound of silence........]
What a sad state of affairs; nearly 200 years old and still a short pants banana of a nation. Embarrassing.
All shes nervous about is NML finding her stolen loot!
Aug 20th, 2014 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0She doesn't give a rats ass about anyone else.
I suspect she will try to Nationalize Citibank Argentina and take their holdings to pay the debt.
Dictator 101
Should be quite funny. Griesa orders Bank of New York Mellon not to provide argieland with list of bondholders. Also orders Bank of New York Mellon, now that there are no bondholders, to pay money held to NML. NML gets its first half million. Whoops! Griesa directs that bonds held under New York law may not be exchanged ait would be an attempted evasion of the court order.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway, imagine a chariot race. Would you get out of a chariot amongst the leaders and get into one currently running at the back and about to founder?
“Instead of watching Gorgeous on Channel 13 or the newly released Widow and Daughters of Rock n Roll during prime time, Argentine viewers were treated to a pre-recorded 45 minute speech from the President about restructuring debt payment through BA.”
Aug 20th, 2014 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.cronista.com/economiapolitica/El-Gobierno-relanza-pago-de-deuda-en-Buenos-Aires-a-traves-de-una-empresa-del-Banco-Nacion-20140820-0059.html
She should be nervous because the results at best will be bad but realistically they will end catastrophically. They may very well end up with a new group of holdouts.....holdouts A and Holdouts B. More so however, these bond are “traded” bonds and BoNY is the transfer agent. With BoNY as the transfer agent and under US court orders, do they really think they are going to provide the information of the potentially thousands of bondholders to Argentina? Without the owner registry, who will they be reaching to.....and how?
Aug 20th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wow! Just wow!!
Aug 20th, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16
Aug 20th, 2014 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Precisely..
It is little wonder she is nervous. I was reminded of the line in the movie Tora! Tora! Tora!: “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant.”
Can't wait to hear what Griesa thinks of this move! Wouldn't be surprised if the holdouts ask him to release the half billion at BONY to them and Griesa agrees.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ooops sorry @16 - my response sshould have been for @17. However, I agree with your post also : )
Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They seem to think it is a simple and easy process, but without knowing who owns the bonds this action means nothing....absolutely nothing. Stocks and bonds trade and change hands every day. Beside paying the owners of record, the transfer ownership as these bonds are bought and sold daily.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Transfer the paying agent........who will they be paying without records? Are the populace of Argentina that stupid?
I think she imagines the bond holders will identify themselves and flock to Argentina to get payment.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd guess many of the bond holders are investment funds that are limited by their own country risk profiles and would be prohibited from accepting bonds under Argentine jurisdiction.
Cristina Fernandez, who admitted being very nervous, said in a speech that she was nervous due to the fact that “she about to prod a very large and grumpy bear with a pointy stick”
Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hope she enjoys being a tree, because we know where Bears shit..
Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oso oso......oso grande!!!!
Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9, brasileiro,
Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For more than 10 years I managed the Litigation Section in the Legal Dept of Wells Fargo Bank. As such I was in charge of all the Bank's lawsuits wherever pending. I have lived in Brasil for most of the past 12 years. I am familiar with the (so-called) justice system in Brasil. It is a frigging joke. The Portuguese aristocracy created many absurd rules and procedures for the purpose of insuring that their less gifted, but privileged, offspring would have a job either as a despusanche or notario or judge. The system itself is horribly inefficient and unfair. Talk about uncertainty. There is no stare decisis and like the Argentine system, the outcome of many cases depends entirely on the judge one can procure ( i.e.buy) to handle the case because judges are not randomly assigned. The justice system in Brasil is a horrible, unfunny joke.
Brasil will never be a first world country until it changes its justice system. That' also true for Argentina.
I never hear any Brasilians speak favorably about their justice system - you must be an Argentine.
@26
Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bingo!
@ 26
Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I never talked about the Brazilian judiciary. You also missed my nationality.
I'm very pleased with Brazilian judiciary. When I needed him had always rational and balanced decisions.
Although I do not know the judiciary of North America, I can make a (bad) idea of it through the media reports.
THIS UNJUST WAR NOW ALSO AGAINST THE US JUSTICE AND THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IS MADNESS!!!
Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PRESIDENT KIRCHNER SHOULD RESIGN, IF SHE DOES NOT WANT OR ABLE TO SOLVE THE HOLDOUT PROBLEM IN GOOD FAITH.
Judge Griesa had already warned Argentina in June:
Citation:
U.S. Judge Warns Argentina Against Debt Swap
June 22, 2014
New York (EFE).- A U.S. FEDERAL JUDGE WARNED ARGENTINA THAT IT WOULD BE VIOLATING A RULING HE HANDED DOWN IN FAVOR OF ITS HOLDOUT BONDHOLDERS IF IT GOES THROUGH WITH A PROPOSED NEW DEBT SWAP, an idea Buenos Aires floated this week as a way to make payments to holders of restructured Argentine bonds in the South American country and not in the United States.
In a brief official letter dated June 20, U.S. District Judge Thomas Griesa wrote that the proposal unveiled Tuesday by Economy Minister Axel Kicillof “is in violation of the ruling and procedures now in place in the Southern District of New York, and the Republic of Argentina is prohibited from carrying” it out.
-----------------------------------------
Judge Griesa is 100% right!
In the bond contracts “Pari Passu” is clear defined.
Argentina is paying the “Exchange bondholders” according to the
agreement reached.
BUT, as in the bond contracts pari passu defined and Judge Griesa says, ARGENTINA MUST ALSO PAY THE “HOLDOUT BONDHOLDERS” ACCORDING TO THE AGREEMENT, THE HOLDOUTS HAVE WITH ARGENTINA!
@28 - brasilero
Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Out of interest, can you explain to me why Griesa's judgement was wrong?
@26
Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You went from the Brazilian / Argentine justice system to the NorthAmoan justice system.
You seem to believe you made an upgrade.
You are an imbecile.
@29
Aug 20th, 2014 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This woman screwed everyone in her country for a decade. She's a zionist queen and you are a holdout crybaby...Why you epected this pesticide genocide exchange control witch to suddenly be your friend I have no Idea.
@32
Aug 20th, 2014 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“She's a zionist queen...”
Talk about absurd non sequiturs. Next thing we know you'll be asserting she is a Freemason! Jajajajajajajaja
@32
Aug 20th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She has freed us from the evil West. Christ the Reedemer in the Andes will be replace by her liking.
Many of our blessed-heart commentators here have been mislead by a totally secondary point contained in a crappy headline.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Come on. The Argentina president is announcing a major move towards recovering national control of the foreign debt and you are so pissed off as to focus on the “fact” that Cristina was “nervous?” Give me a break!
Others find delight in re-quoting a guy from La Nacion, a newspaper that not only opposes the current government but it has applauded every single coup d'etat and every single move that benefits foreign interests since its creation.
You people better get used to it: Argentina is now a fully sovereign country who is not going to kneel in front of the gringos and anybody else. The time of the cipayos in Argentina is over.
@35
Aug 20th, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is exactly what the entirety of my generation believes too. No more foreigners, no more yanks, no more anglos, no more Gallegos, no more outsiders.
Argentina for Argentina and everyone else fuck off.
#35 Your funeral
Aug 20th, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Has anyone noticed brassie's suddenly improved grammar? tobi you've lapsed again.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#35 no one denies Argentina's sovereignty and indebtedness and sovereignty are two different beasts. Argentina also possesses the sovereign right not to pay on it's contractual obligations. However, sovereign rights does not stop debt collectors from collecting debts unless they filed for bankruptcy and there is none for sovereign nations. They will continue to come after Argentina for what is owed to them. If you think paying back what you borrowed is kneeling in front of gringos..........you are destined to a life of poverty lacking responsible values.
the first:
You borrow.....you repay.........Latin American's needs to learn that value.........then move onto the value of hard work and self sufficiency.
@38
Aug 20th, 2014 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not Brasileiro. For the millionth time. I only use one screenname at a time.
@38
Aug 20th, 2014 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hard work and self sufficiency is not in the vocabulary of the Western. Such words were exchanged by speculation and exploitation of others!
Europe became rich by plundering America, Africa, and Asia.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now that they can't do that anymore surprise surprise, they are sinking.
USA became rich by borrowing from everyeone.
Now they can't borrow anyeore and surprise surprise, they are sinking.
#37 know any god dirges?
Aug 20th, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stunning move by TMBOA: it FAILS on so many counts but the obvious one is as Capt Poppy says:
Aug 20th, 2014 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WTF are the legal owners of the bonds? The argies have no idea!
Ha, ha, ha.
And as for changing to argie law, isn't that an oxymoron? Ony morons will be doing it.
PMSL
For God's sake how irresponsible is CFK !!!...how irresponsable are these people. The damage and poverty these poeple are causing to society is terrible.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't understand how commom peopl let them make such things.....
If the entire planet says to Argentina that some decision we make is bad, then it must be good for us.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simple as that.
@45
Aug 20th, 2014 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I was almost a baby when the Junta started killing people and the “World said were a human right violations”....it was the “anti-argentina” campaign...
Just remember BONDs 2005, 2010 issued by CFK government have NY as the legal judiriction, the just-signed trade agreement between Argentina and China has London as the legal judiridiction....and now, almost a week of having close this agreement CFK wanted to change the juridiction from NY to Argentina.
Who will trust Argentina?
What is so funny is that these ministers of economic malfeasance toss the word “speculators” around like the world uses the word terrorists. It's quite obvious that they are clueless to the concept of buying low and selling high. Anyone who invests in anything for a return is speculating. Someone needs to remove them with extreme prejudice.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby is just here to practice 'debating' in English.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina doesnt invade other countries well not in the last 32 years because:
a) it cant successfully invade a paperbag let alone a country
b) it doesnt need to invade other lands because it has small population and loads of space and resources.
very simple really.
Why would I want to earn the trust of the Brits? or Spanish? Or Americans? Or Germans? or French? or Chinese? or Chileans? or Brazilians? or Italians? or even Falklanders?
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Has no relevance in my life, that's for sure.
@49
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If so don't ask for their money...don't beg for their assistance.....and die of starvation alone or in the company of Venezuelans, Cubans, Muslim Syrians, Iranians and North Koreans.
By the way, if you don't care the Wolrd..why do you write here? in a language that it's not yours...it seems that you want to be read....
How old are you? 12, 13, 14...15 years old?...hurry up, it's time to go to shool......
Why would we need money from them to not starve?
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We can produce food for 600 million people. If WE change, and are honest to each other, and work a little harder, and expel any person that takes more than they produce, then we can say fuck all to the entire world, we don't need any of them, get lost.
Time to give up the library computer Toby. You are stopping other people
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0from using it to do more useful things like informing others on Facebook of what they had for breakfast.
Yes, sure you will be able to eat but you won't have medicines, cars, planes, energy, computers, other technological developements, structure to transport the food produced in the farms to the ciites, etc.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GO TO SCHOOL BOY !!!!!
If WE change,
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and are honest to each other,
and work a little harder
PMSL lololololololololololololololololololol you're a fucking RG....that's like growing up!!!!!
Yes, yes. I'm reading plenty of personal attack on me because my questions are so “ridiculous”, yet no one here is able to answer them.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, Syria, and Iran have one thing in common: they lie in deserts, the tropics, or the sub-arctic. None of them can grow any food for themselves, let alone others.
Not the case here. If we do that, and no longer borrow money becoming slaves of the northern banker criminals, we don't need anyone else. No other country can say that
@51
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If WE change, and are honest to each other, and work a little harder...”
Given your own statements about taking advantage of others, and not taking responsibility being Argentine traits which you yourself claim to share, this seems unlikely, doesn't it? ;)
You pinned him in a corner like a rat.........watch the boi deflect. You do know he never traveled outside of Mendoza let alone Argentina.......and has no practical experience of anything he speaks about.......
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@56
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See number 54 for our answer.
Gotcha everyone! (again)
Captain poppy pithy summary of how the world views Argentina.
“you are a fucking RG”
In other words, whether we behave responsibly or grown up (whatever that means in the warped depraved minds of EUians and NorthAmoans), we will still be seen as “irresponsible RGs”.
So if that's the case, then why would I act “grown up”? I gain nothing by it since I still will be seen as a juvenile, so I might as well ACT as a juvenile and take advantage of it.
And this exercise explains my behavior over the last 48 hours, for those wondering why. Remember two days ago when I said in response to someone suggesting we should grow up : “I'm Argentine, I cannot do that”.
All my plots were leading to this moment. I am 10 steps ahead of you all, as usual.
And 2000 words smarter, since I have learned that many new words since my last update.
Thank you.
You don't get it......Kirchners, peronists and the likes of you are RG's. The other's are Argentine's. All this time on MP and you still fail to see that.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, the world views Argentina, due to the current leadership as a country that reneges, exploits, lies and most of all arrogant as your pathetic self shows. Allow me to buy you an airline ticket to the Ukraine for a much needed vacation.
I reneged on myself and responded to a the likes of you. You have no clue what the world looks like....and, nice defection of #56's question.....isn't it?
Some very good related articles in the Financial Times and the WSJ regarding CFK jumping from the pan into the fire. Wall Street does not know whether to pity or laugh at Cristina's new strategy. What is certain however is that Griesa is not amused.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-------------------------------------------------
The troubled mentally challenged adolescent troll suffering from a multiple personality disorder needs to limit himself to a maximum of three identities as he's presently confusing himself with pathetic contradictions.
“I am 10 steps ahead of you all, as usual”........GO TO SCHOOL BOY !!!!
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#60
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is like after a firefight, you encounter some survivors and one is so traumatized he is still firing his weapon when though it is empty. You do feel that pity for them. Impossible to remove them like that, but her we can all make an exception.
The last time Argentina was an important, significant nation was when this song played as a top hit in NorthAmoan airwaves:
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YS7sWCG_ZE
Ever since then, the charts indicate our GDP per capita decline.
I never have denied that.
I just want to be left alone as a country.
#56 did you get your answer from the Mendozan teenager?
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Given your own statements about taking advantage of others, and not taking responsibility being Argentine traits which you yourself claim to share, this seems unlikely, doesn't it? ;)
@56
Aug 20th, 2014 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlikely, but I'm willing to give it a try. ONLY between argentines. Foreigners need not apply.
(5) Welsh Lawyer asks...:
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“How much will bondholders charge to agree to this change? A number of them won't be able to hold these bonds if they are under Argentinean law due there will fall fall of their internal credit sanctions. This is badly thought out.”
I answer...:
Nothing...
Because the bonds ARE NOT CHANGING JURISDICTION...
They continueto be under the same laws they were born under...
The ONLY CHANGE is the place of payment...
The holdin bondholders are, from today, free to choose...:
1) They can wait IN ETERNUM for another pestilent fart from that New York`s judge Griesa...
2) Or they can be paid their dues in due time via Buenos Aires...
As usual, the only “Badly Thought Out” thing is your fawlty and one-eyed processing of all information regarding Argentina...
#62 Captian,
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, you're right. One should avoid ridiculing simpletons and just ignore them instead.
I have no pity however for those who laugh at war casualties.
Anyone who accepts the domicile of Argentina's debt as Argentina needs to examine the risk of NEVER being paid!
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get over yourself. I only mentioned “The Laguna del desierto”. Never made any statements about the details of the incident.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't you laugh and make fun and ridiculize all the time about Argentina losing the Falkland's War?
So then F---K YOU for laughing at war casualties.
#56 at least he knows how inferior he is
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@64
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm beginning to think of Mendoza as “MendaCity.”
Yeah I know 120.000 words in 8 languages, speak 6 of them, 5 fluently, studying cosmological mathematics, and I'm inferior... to a foreigner? LOL>
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like I said, clearly a denizen of MendaCity. ;)
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@66 place of paymnet is basically the same from a practical view point and it would probably be illegal under the docs due the the illilegality provision in either the mandatory prepay clause or the reps and warraties as the payment (in argentina) would conflict with the NY judgement. I wrote my piece before I saw axel's excuse for a coherent explanation. They are still in default and all that entails. This is not long term solution for getting argentina back on track
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(74) Welsh Lawyer
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All that verbiage just for me?
And free of charge!
Axel was good today, a little repetitive but good...
You know it..... I know it.
TTT would be better off learning to grow food and how to defend it from bigger, armed and hungry Argentines.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is not situation where a country like Argentina, if cut off from the world, would all work together to take care of each other. To start with the provinces that controlled food would severe contact with the rest of the country, arm their borders and use the produce for power. TTT lives in a fantasy world.
#74 Welsh W
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In all fairness, THINK's legal observation makes some sense from an Argentinian point of view, because Griesa's ruling has backed Cristina into a corner. Whatever she decides to do, it will result in disaster for her government. Politically, she cannot let her followers see her capitulate to the vultures. It's pretty clear that Paul Singer will not settle for pennies on the dollar as he smells blood. Furthermore, it practically unworkable according to the experts. Argentinian current strategy perhaps best at this moment is to use a campaign of smoke and mirrors to blame everyone else and stick with her preposterous claim that they have paid the bond holders as the money is in the bank.
Certainly WW, I agree with you that. getting Argentina back on track will require great sacrifice.
Comment removed by the editor.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@51. Yeah, you're wonderful. Back in 2010 you had to import nearly half your fuel and lubricants. How is it now? Same date and you imported 2/3 of pharmaceuticals. Half your needed chemicals. Half your rubber and plastics. 2/3 of textiles and clothing. 2/3 of glass, stone etc, half your iron and steel, 5/6 of machinery and parts, half of watercraft and other transport, 6/7 of precision equipment. Looks like your headed for the Stone Age. You should get out your wood and practice starting a fire by twirling a stick on a block. Flint tools? Can you manage without a calculator? Or a computer? Pumping water? I doubt you have any idea what is “necessary” in a semi-modern society. I reckon you, in particular, and argieland in general can't cope with 20th/21st century civilisation.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Our people lacks understanding and is ruled by what is directly seen or perceived. All these matters are out of their scope: Contracts & Obligations. Juridical effects. Future Investment behaviour. Links between Reputation, Investment & Rentability. Distinction between matters of fact and matters of right. Legal outcomes. Practical outcomes. Distinction between subjective will and objective rules. Distinction between mere presence & existence. Long term vs short term. Accountability. Authority & position. Rules of Payment. Etc. It seems by our collective representation, as argentines, we can't grasp all these subjects.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's a shame we're still ruled by the colours and smokescreens of populism and demagoguery.
Conquerer,
Aug 20th, 2014 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, they could cheat just a little and import Cuban and North Korean economic advisors to speed up their quest for a self sufficient Marist- Leninist socialist paradise like we had in Chile in the early 1970's.
Troll: still doesn't get the acceleration, lower cost and rentability of free commerce vs a centrally planned economy. Let alone the links between honouring obligations, reputation, investment, security, juridical institutions, enforcement of the rule of law, business environment and rentability. Well, another naive materialist or naive empiricist will bite the dust when getting out to the real world. Obligations do account for what it is still not seen or not present in the current world. It is an abstract concept.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-08-20/argentina-s-last-bond-exchange-went-so-well-it-s-doing-another
Aug 20th, 2014 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only idiots that think that an exchange through Argentina could happen are the same idiots who got them in this mess in the first place.
It won't happen.
My guess is Austral Elvis and the Witch got a call from their NY attorneys and they'll back peddle this craziness soon.
13.63/1
The importers are turning to the black money market since they've been shut off from the gov't exchange rate.
Wait until that flows into the inflation rate.
Venezuela will have nothing on them.
Except a fight to the bottom.
@75 of course.. Happy to discuss these things. It's genuinely interesting from a professional viewpoint. Also, quite keen for them to make the right decision with the least economic blowback for the country as, if things go wrong, I'll end up picking up the bill for the in-laws...
Aug 20th, 2014 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She does not want to pay,
Aug 20th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0she will move heaven and earth not to pay,
but, Apparently she may sue the USA IMF ICJ , and the ECHR for stress renders to her and her country.
lol
As Klingon bides his time waiting for the house of cards to crumble.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pretty soon I will be picking up the leftovers to build my own house.
The higher the blue the better for me.
86. Wait for the blackouts to be fixed, then you'll know a recovery has started.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BA will look like Caracas pretty soon. Blackouts, no running water, bare shelves and a huge increase in violent crimes. I just read that 98% of the hospitals in Venezuela are closed because they can't import any med supplies any longer. http://www.local10.com/news/hospitals-in-venezuela-virtually-closed-for-lack-of-materials/27610660
Coming soon to Argentina..
The exact definition of the Justice of the United States the figure of contempt, as the case law cited by all the judges of that country, is to commit a “CRIME SLANDERING, REVILING, INSULTING OR THREATENING AN AUTHORITY OR A PUBLIC OFFICIAL IN THE EXERCISE OF THEIR FUNCTIONS. ”In this case, slander or libel is before Judge Grisea Argentina by explicitly disobeying a primary failure (pay on Wall Street through BoNY) and a command and prohibition (not change the venue) ; so that the country would enter for the American Justice in a double disobedience.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THIS UNJUST WAR NOW ALSO AGAINST THE US JUSTICE AND THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IS MADNESS!!!
PRESIDENT KIRCHNER SHOULD RESIGN, IF SHE DOES NOT WANT OR ABLE TO SOLVE THE HOLDOUT PROBLEM IN GOOD FAITH.
All that @72 and he's still thick has shit!
Aug 20th, 2014 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 72 4n conTroll
Aug 20th, 2014 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“studying cosmological mathematics,”
OK.
Just define, in mathematical terms, what a GOOGOL is and then explain in simple words an example of it with regard to the planets in the universe.
If you can.
This very silly and stupid president is not allowing for the roof will collapse around her,the way she has disobayed to repay the debts as required.This will now see argentina go down the well into catastrophic financial meltdown and argentina will fall into destitution for decades and years ahead,the sooner she is gone the quicker argentina will come out of the red.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She's a feisty old of sack of puss.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We need to give her the Joan of Arc treatment.
mr. troll-y. Just little Apple alone has virtually no debt, AND holds more cash on hand than the international reserves of the world's SECOND richest nation.
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.businessinsider.com/global-cash-reserves-companies-nations-2014-4
U.S. ppl became rich by being optimistic, constructive, creative long-term thinkers.
Argentina is wealthy in a pretty, romantic culture. And they're *financially* wealthier than countries comprised of indigenous South Americans.
Owl, Poppy, Elaine, good stuff.
“Under the proposal, holders of bonds resulting from the 2005 and 2010 debt restructurings could also choose to swap their bonds for notes with “identical terms and financial conditions, and with equal nominal value” under Argentine law.”
Aug 20th, 2014 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Genius.
They are going to let rotting roadkill have what little residue is left from their original bonds. Yes, if they were stupid enough to buy the bonds in the first place and then take a 70% haircut - they're stupid enough to ultimately forfeit the balance. lol
Score one: rotting roadkill
at 16
Aug 20th, 2014 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Europe nominees have the records.
Many commentators still insist Argentina “does not want to pay.” Argentina borrows and does not pay,” and other unfunded statements such as #91 by Mikey.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 03:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Come on people, read the news stories in their entirety! Argentina did pay!
That Judge Griesa blocked the payment to 92 per cent of creditors in his eagerness to help Paul Singer get his 1,600 per cent profit payment is another story.
Other than that: Argentina has paid, right in time what it owes to 92.4 per cent of creditors since the 2005 and 2010 debt restructuring. Is it so hard to understand? Nine-two-point-four per cent!
Argentina paid off its debt with the IMF in 2006--two years before due date. That's my boy! Never thought the country would do it. Forever proud and free from recessive re-negotiation recipes.
Argentina settled with Repsol for compensation for the expropriation of YPF. So much for the initial dictatorship accusations!
Argentina renegotiated its debt with the Paris Club earlier this year. Where is the rogue country?
Now, Argentina is looking for a way to pay its creditors without the interference of the Griesas of this world. Mind you, even the vultures will get paid! The country will deposit their payment in a special account to be opened in Banco Nacion, where payments to all bondholders--including the 7,6 per cent of creditors, the holdouts--will be deposited. Again, Argentina is seeking a way to make its regular payments!! Where is the Big Bad Wolf now?
Paul Singer and the other holdouts who litigated represent 1 per cent of Argentina creditors.
Now, many fair commentators seem to think Argentina is defined by its position in regards to the vultures...you can conclude the country is being reckless with the poor guys...that's opinion. In can believe Cristina is just defending the country...that is my opinion. But what's listed above are the bare facts.
It is fair to say that while CFK, Timberhead and Co are politically and economically inept they are extremely funny. Chuckle chuckle. Perhaps there is scope for a 'Carry on Argentina' film?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0EUREKA!!!!!
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ladies and Gentlemen... we finally have THE answer to all our problems, in this forum and beyond. The reason why things are the way they are:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329830.400-brain-drain-are-we-evolving-stupidity.html
You need go no further than the article's opening statement:
“We've got smarter and smarter in the 20th century, but now there are signs that IQs have begun to fall in countries such as the UK and Australia”
Cased solved. Have a good night.
98. Hey Troll.... That is because they are becoming islamic terrorist exporting countries.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-29/warrants-out-for-australian-islamic-state-fighters/5632562
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-29/warrants-out-for-australian-islamic-state-fighters/5632562
If you think UK is evil, rascist, cruel and imperialistic wait till the Muslims in a couple of years determine ever more elections, laws, policy and eventually they will become a majority round 2050.
You are ultimately right that they are a threat to the world when we wake up and a stone age monkey has its grasp on top ten armies of the economies of Britain and France. As far as Im concerned these are dead nations that have chosen their sentance already. Submissive and hopeless like James Foley they will be erased from history simply accepting there Muslim sentanced decapitation. This I can asure you, though be careful with what you wish.
However we are safe from them and we have time to prepare... So lets focus on Argentina rather and tackle its real problems shall we??
I would agree Europe are gonners and that they will be conquered by the Muslims, both from the inside, the outside. And that the USA eventually too, because the muslims will (and are) bankrupting them. For every 100 dollar beheading, the USA spends a billion or two in response. For every 100k terrorist attack, the USA spends a couple trillion. Big time losing equation.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina will not be touched by the muslims, because they are perfectly integrated here.
Europe are on extinction path. Israeli scholars already are counting on this.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4385024,00.html
They will do nothing because to many of them are appeasing condescending cowards most of them and are afraid to even see what is going on in their own streets so they feel empowered and patriotic by closing themselves at home in front of a laptop and fight imaginary fow -Argentina- 8000 miles away.
America as a whole is different. Muslims will have no more money to come here and the US will abandon the region in the future. The US problem is the demographic preassure from the South and George Friedman a top US strategic analyst predicts teensions with a Mexican power down south and even break away regions and states of the border by the end of the century. But america is far from doomed.
#95 hep c....are you a 5 or 10 watter?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0@96
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0What part of 27% of the invested capital do you fail to comprehend?
Argentina does not pay back it's debts, it pays back a fraction of them or It doesn't pay at all!!
Argentina paid off its debt with the IMF in 2006--two years before due date. That's my boy! (post 96)
Aug 21st, 2014 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's my boy! I THINK we all know who this is.
Argentina only paid the Paris Club, ICSID judgement and Repsol becaue the USA HINTED it may stop voting against loan disbursements at IDB and WB.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too bad so sad, we're still voting against the loan disbursements.
My guess is the New INDEC is the same as the OLD INDEC and IMF will censure then expel Argentine after the Feb 15 review.
So many 1st for Argentina, too bad they're all bad 1sts.
Can you imagine how bad things are is INDEC is claiming stagnation?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#103 “Reality Check”
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh yes, if you haven't noticed, since 2003 Argentina has governments who represent the country's interests. Prior governments (such as Videla, Menem, De la Rua) used to team up (and pocket millions in commissions and other deals) with foreigners, pitilessly ballooning the debt and screwing the country time and again. These were the times for Argentina creditors! Not anymore.
107. Clearly Democracy has failed in Argentina. I suggest you try to find the Argentine version of Pinochet.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wipe out the corruption once and for all
It is the only thing that will save the 40MM people from getting dragged into poverty any further.
Would anyone like a cup of tea? I have biscuits and some nice French Fancies from the Deli on the corner.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0News for you Yankeeboy:
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina 2002: 17.1 millions of poor, or 45.5 per cent of the population.
Argentina 2005: 9.6 millions of poor, or 24.8 per cent.
Argentina 2010: 2.7 millions of poor, or 6.6 per cent.
Source: World Bank
Here YankeeKid, take it! Now go ahead and proclaim the statistics a fake because the World Bank statisticians have succumbed to the charms of Cristina--the hottest president in the world.
@ 110 Enrique Massot
Aug 21st, 2014 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even the Pope knows that INDEC provided the numbers and he says that they are bollocks.
Why do you think that he was always twatting the twat Cristina around the head for it?
Idiota, you need to do much better than this.
110. World Bank posts Indec stats. They don't do their own.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You did know that right?
Bahahahaha
There haven't been reliable stats out of Argentina since Nestor took office. In fact I think Argentina will end up getting removed from IMF after the Feb 15 review since it looks like the old indec is the new indec.
You seriously think Argentina has ONLY 6% of the population living in poverty? My guess is you've never been there.
How many people are being thrown into poverty DAILY with 40% inflation? More for food!!
BTW what do poverty stats have to do with a failed democracy?
Argentina poverty below poverty line 2010 CIA factbook
Aug 21st, 2014 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 030%
Yb. When you claim you are no longer poor when you can get by on 10 pesos a day.......of course they have such low poverty rates.....lol
Aug 21st, 2014 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0112 YankeeKid:
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just as I said. If the statistics don't meet your position, say they're fake, is that easy.
“Failed democracy????” Come on!! You wish!!
Seriously, you are welcome to play opposition, which is desirable in democracy. However, please come up with some--at least--seemingly credible arguments. Hate is not a good adviser.
113 Cabezon:
Yes, the CIA Fact Book ranks poverty in Argentina at 30 per cent (based on private estimates), but it's a lot better than 2003 when it was 51.7 per cent according to the same source.
There is no denying lots of things still need improvement in Argentina. However, steps are being taken in the right direction all the time (yes, the government makes errors too). But in the past, Argentina was going backwards, doing worse all the time.
And the people know that, see the differences and that is why a majority supports Cristina. It's not abut you or I believe; I's a matter of trying to interpret the reality. But blind haters like yourself believe they can wish and something will magically happen. No my friend, the reality is what people think before going to cast their ballot. The opposition is a joke, trying whatever sort of alliance they can concoct to come up with some credible alternative. They can't and they will not do it. I hope they choose Axel Kicilloff for president.
You dont get it do you?? If 30% was the estimated poverty 4 years ago, the situation has worsened dramatically since then.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Overall poverty was lower in the 1990s and employment and activity index was far more genuine and beetter than the 2000s of Kirchners.
The last year Argentina grew was back in 2011 and the corset was released in November after the hag was reelected.
Argentina has more than 50 years of budget deficit and the financial balance has being negative since the 1930s. Argentina never recovered from the collapse of the British Empire (its prime source of investment) and the 1930s crisis.
Hence what the persistance cycles of
public indebtedness→ defaults
money printing → inflation→ devaluations
Argentina has gone from bad to worse since the 1930s and the last decade was exeptionally even worse than traditional Argentine decline. Far worse government in history
He's actually been described as the most dangerous politician in Latin America with a tailored and polished resume that he has been carefully groomed to assume power in the next Peronist regime. He reminds me very much of another democratically elected leader at an early age who's also a genius in running all aspects of his country. With his handsome looks, the modesty of his godmother Cristina and the moral honesty of his uncle Timerman, he'll use his expertise in Marixist economic theory to lead Argentina's transformation into a socialist paradise.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Axel's role model: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-un
The Queen has no real heirs. They have so far thrown a barrage of successors; Uribarri, Randazzo, J. Dominguez, Capitanich, Anibal Fernandez and now Kicilloff. In 2011 there obvious succesor (in case they did not secure a constitutional reform in congress) was Boudou so you get the idea. They just propagate these express candidates now and then to press Scioli who they dont see as one of theirs. The next president is either Massa, Scioli or Macri. Dont pay any attention to Think and Massot they are expats who dont have a clue of what is going on.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 03:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0115. Splain me how you can get LESS poverty with 40% inflation year over year...
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go...
idiot
100 4n conTroll
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I’m still awaiting your answer!
“@ 72 4n control
“studying cosmological mathematics,”
OK.
Just define, in mathematical terms, what a GOOGOL is and then explain in simple words an example of it with regard to the planets in the universe.
If you can.”
It seems to me you can’t! :o(
@18 Actually I think Cristina's real heir is Massa. He doesn't follow Cristina's orders anymore and he may have different policies but virtually everyone of his supporters are former Kirchnerists. He's same old same old.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said, voters will know who is who at the time of casting their ballot, and that is motive of desperation for those who want a return to the past.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina needs to find the right candidate to continue the work of Nestor and Cristina--Kicilloff being a principled and able young man would be an excellent choice.
The world is evolving to be multi-polar--no more one master--and Argentina will develop relationships with the BRICS to enhance its trading and financial opportunities.
Reinforcing the domestic productive sector while incorporating the poor to the economy while rejecting indebtedness as it was done in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s will help the country to take off.
Videla, Menem and company will be remembered as nightmares, much to the regret of some nostalgic aristocrats and their spokespersons.
#122
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0K No, the Peronists will tell their supporters who they will vote for.
The economic destruction of one of the still greatest nations for eventual re- emergence as one of the top twenty economic powerhouses, continues under your current government. You blame the troubles upon those from the 70's, 80's and 90's... I suggest you instead look into a mirror.
121
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Say what you want aboout Massa but he has ambition and he is not a yes man like Randazzo, Kicillof, Dominguez or Uribarri
122
You live in Canada since the 1970s, you clearly have got no clue of what you are talking about
All of these ExPat Marxists that are too scared to go home and actually live in the MISERY of Argentina and Venezuela make me sick.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is poorer and dumber over each generation since Peron. It is the only country getting poorer over the last 75 years. Way to go.
Idiots
(115) & (122) Enrique Massot
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I previously have made abundantly clear on these pages... I have, until now, never voted for the Peronist Party (Or Justicialist or whatever they had to call themselves to be allowed to exist..) on National elections...
Having said the above..., I happily admit that my appreciation of the Kirchner Administration has steadily increased during the past 10 years or so...
I can see and feel by their actions that they share and represent many of my ethical values...
More so than, sorry to say, the excellent person and politician that was, until recently, my preferred candidate (Hermes Binner...)
If young Axel Kicillof decides to run for the presidency, he will, most certainly, get my vote...
Su seguro servidor
El Think......, un exexilado mas del Chubut...
I am sure the Embassy in London and Ottawa is filled with nasty Marxists that fled in the 70s voting in their terrorist brethren to bring further misery to the people who actually live there.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Welcome to life, 115...
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I find it funny reading think's responding posts to himself......lol
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Either that or we have proof that there are 2 K supporters that speak English.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kinda doubtful.
TWIMC
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://mobile.twitter.com/ehmassot
Nice cap, Enrique...
Think
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed, I like the cap as well.
It's a foolish or brave man willing to use his real name.
In this case, my opinion is of the latter....
Associating Videla with Menem is a bit too harsh in my opinion, but he seems sincere in his beliefs.
(132) Chicureo
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jupppppppppppppp....
Brave, intelligent, handsome and classy.
A prototypical Argentino.
;-)))
#131 Think - #132 Chicureo
Aug 23rd, 2014 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks!
Gracias por los cumplidos. Good catch! And yes, I do enjoy not having to hide. I have another cap too:
http://www.countynewsonline.ca/about/
#126: I agree. I was never a Peronist either, and when Nestor Kirchner was elected I though it was more of the same. I thought Argentina would never be able to put its astronomical foreign debt under control, never mind paying it back.
The man was exceptional and brought my faith back. Love him and Cristina too.
#134
Aug 23rd, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first cap is my favorite.
Agreed that Nestor always needs to be recognized for his courage in taking on the presidency when he did. I am curious to know what Think's and your opinions are of viable non-Peronist candidates for the next presidential elections.
You should know, I'm personally anti-Peronist, but not an extremist either.
Oh dear, oh dear.....it appears that Enrique Massot is not Mr. Think....
Aug 23rd, 2014 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PMSL......;-)
..unless of course EM has always been masquerading as Mr.Think...
#135
Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldn't blame anybody for being anti-Peronist, because the party's performance before Nestor and especially under Menem was less than stellar.
Regarding non-Peronist candidates for the next elections, I would carefully evaluate everyone without discarding any candidate beforehand. So far I haven't seen any promising personality though.
I would not put my bets on the Peronist Party just for the sake of its name, because the party can take any shape and form, and Carlos Menem demonstrated it.
#136:
I always post under my real name and take full responsibility for what I write.
It would be -nice- to see another Argentine in this forum, if so!
Aug 25th, 2014 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Enrique wants hints on a stronger presentation here it tis:
Anglos (& East Asians even MORE!) LIKE the discussing of numbers and money. It is clear to them when you are comfortable with Economics and understand it-when you offer ORIGINAL analysis (not just typing about a google search :)
It takes years for a gov's decisions to affect-I would have to wait to judge Christina's success (or El Chin's) by the Argentine economy in the next two years!
138. Selling/Stealing hard assets (the family silver for example) to pay for a lavish lifestyle for a few years isn't a fine or long lasting plan by anyone's imagination.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That was/is the Ks only plan.
Now that they've run out of their savings and other people's money “the won decade” is unraveling and they have no idea how to stop it.
Psst, they can't
There's no where to go but down.
Caracas is their immediate future
Wait, your fingerprint shows you already had your bean allowance for the week.
Socialist utopia indeed
Marxists are evil
To everyone in Argentina,to the population of Argentina your president is doing everything to screw USA.But doing so has screwed Argentina,and argentina is now bankrupt,and going into freefall .So within months your argentina will be in deep deep shite,up creek and deep trouble financial and you will be heading down a big big black hole,and kirchner is making the hole bigger.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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