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Kicillof in China to confirm loans and a much needed swap dollars
Credit strapped Argentina is wooing Beijing and with this purpose Economy Minister Axel Kicillof, Planning Minister Julio De Vido and YPF oil company CEO Miguel Galuccio are currently on an official trip to China, aimed at gathering funding for public works including two dams and one nuclear power plant. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesPlease can we have a cheque for $1b dollars, pretty please.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 07:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0The bonds that they defaulted in 2001 had a no soveriegnty clause,it means nothing,they are liars.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shouln't it read..
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Kicillof in China to confirm loans and a much needed swap dollars and to confirm China's support of Argentinas sovereignty claim over Las Malvinas'.
Come on Argentnina your a letting this great opportunity pass you by. Or is it you really are too embarrassed going cap in hand to beg for money.
An acceleration clause is not much use if the debtor has no means or will to pay it. I imagine the Chinese will demand a high price for taking on the risk of just becoming another creditor screwed by Argentina.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0China financed, Russian built for Argentina a nuclear power station.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can we say “Coima's para todos” ! (Brides for everyone)
Yep the well is dry, begging China for a Billion bucks.
The K's are desperate and the Chinese will take full advantage of it!
If China gives them a Wubbery cheque.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does that mean it will bounce?
Could we please have a loan? We promise to play it back.....
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0....... and I want a pony and a coup Deville at the bottom of a cracker jack box and...
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0BCRA is spending U$1B/mo supporting the ridiculously low gov't controlled peso rate.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are hopin', wishin' prayin' for a miracle windfall so they can keep doing this until Soy sales are back.
I wonder if they think many farmers will plant Soy next year. It is pretty doubtful when the sales price is close to or will be under their break even by then.
I can't see how they're going to make it.
Suggest Kicillof gives his counterpart in Equador a call and gets the text of Presidential rants about economic colonialism.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because boys within a few short years you will have sold your soul (and all of your natural resources) to China. And when it comes pay up time they will be a good deal less understanding than the evil Europeans and Americans.
The hand is extended. All you need do is place your cojones therein.
Just goes to show that CFK will go to any means , by any means to get what she wants,
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0and sod the rest of you.
So to summarise the article:
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Three argie twats went to China, had a Chin-wag (see what I did there) and then went out for a chinese meal. I bet I know who had to pick the tab up.
Ha, ha, ha.
Oh yes, the Chin are bound to give them the money with Singer waiting to attach it.
I suspect I know where the aircraft carrier (the old tub from the Russians which is being rebuilt in China) will be going for its first real voyage: off BsAs.
PMSL doesn't come close.
I remember reading that the “special swap” would be through London and the Chinese had insisted the conditions be subject to UK law.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I seem to remember Cristina claiming that these deals were done. Signed for. In the bag. Nailed down. Fixed in stone.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only now it would seem they are, hmm.. somewhat less so?
Or have the Chinese just gone a little sour on the deal?
Getting worried are they? Got home and ran the numbers, made a few telephone calls, asked around.
Got a couple of emails from Singer & Co.
is that how it went down?
Looking ahead a few years,
it would be hilarious to see the Argentine Government in an English Court. They should host it in Wembley Stadium!
14. That often happens. How many times have they announced a rail tunnel to Chile or a Bullet Train to Rosario? As if it its already been funded and ready to go.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think that why Rgs think they are making progress, look this and that are coming but alas they never materialize. They forget to look down at the crumbling streets with raw sewage running in them and the garbage piled up on the corners.
They really need to be worried about their collapsing sewer system in BA.
It won't be long before buildings start falling into the sewers.
I think its caused by their NPD.
I'm going to guess that China extends a revolving credit facility to rotting roadkill but that it won't be anywhere on the scale of that which they were projecting a few weeks ago nor will it be accessible immediately. The funds will be diverted by Cretina, et al for purposes other than capital improvement save for token efforts on the listed projects. The Chinese won't hardly be able to resist doing so. They must save face before other third world countries that they are wooing and demonstrate their steadfastness and reliablity and they can dictate the returns financial or otherwise since there are no alternatives. As China is able to utilize extrajudicial means to securitize and collect its debts, the bond ratings that otherwise hamper investment by others isn't a factor.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder what assurances Argentina is giving China. Surely the inscrutable Chinese are not going to accede their requests without some tangible security?
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China is getting delegations of third world dictator crackpots travelling to Beijing asking for Money. Mugabe went a week ago asking foor 10 Bn US$ and was instead given a pat in the back. I think the Chinese are only interested in that Argentina continues to buy chinese goods in exchange for soy and derivatives, so they will just lend them the minimum amount of yuans in order to keep things going.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd missed that story CD, thanks for mentioning it. So China continues to pick up influence in failing pariah states. And they call hedge funds vultures. Lol!
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Come on. Where are the argie fagpots? Day by day, week by week, argieland collapses. Just a short while now. Isn't it tomorrow that Judge Griesa will shove the knife in and cut out argieland's liver? The sooner argieland is destroyed the better. There are problems. Russia must be faced with NATO troops ready and willing to destroy separists and Russians. In the Middle East, Israel must be encouraged to wipe Gaza off the planet and then move on to the West Bank, recover Israel's territory and expel arab liars and thieves. Further east is the so-called IS caliphate. Wipe it out. Steamroller it. Every Western nation. All armed forces. 5,000 main battle tanks, IFVs, APCs, artillery, missile batteries, air strikes by every fixed and rotary wing aircraft. Every minute. “Shock and Awe”? Armageddon! Every nation's special forces up front to seek and try to rescue hostages. No more ridiculous “rules of engagement”. Troops are sent to kill the enemy. The best place for lawyers is a deep, dark cell where they can rot for 40 years. And our troops should look out for argies and shoot them. The world doesn't need them.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it would be funny that if a Miss Universe speech a bimbo candidate was given a Conqueror comment to read instead of those typical world peace ones.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can one say that no matter what some of us may think/feel
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the Chinese they are not stupid,
something CFK will learn to her embarrassment..lol
@21 They should do that then they would actually get people to watch Miss Universe!
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd pay to see that!
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's Argentina securing the loan with; morcilla?
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 22 Briton who wrote: “the Chinese they are not stupid”
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Definitely not!
It's no longer idealistic maniacs like Mao who run the show.
Those in charge are not only pragmatic, but they can draw on several millennia of experience in economics and politics and they are not going to give Argentina US dollars, only reminbi, which - surprise! surprise! - can only be used to buy Chinese merchandize.
The Chinese are very astute when it comes to tinpot dictators.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They can see right through CFK's blatant attempt to milk the pot for another billion or two before her mad dash for the airport and the retirement home, leaving the Argentine people to pick up the pieces and the liability.
The Chinese are playing the longer game. They've been doing it for years. Millenniums in fact.
They have their eyes on Argentina's oil and food resources (to start with) as well as a ready market for Chinese goods. But long term, I see the Chinese seeking to buy out large swathes of Argentina. To export their people and colonise South America.
After all....... the Spanish did it.
Why not the Chinese as well?!
27... Nahh..... to extract from Argentina you have to invest a lot and then bribe in it to get things done.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BCRA just lowered the amount foreign currency reserves a bank can hold.
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again.
This is bad.
Very very very bad.
Next stop is a forced peso exchange and a corralito. Hello 2001 nice to see you again.
The end is nigh
Kilkoff bends over and takes it in China for a FISTFUL of dollars
Sep 04th, 2014 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@27
Sep 04th, 2014 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree that this is a possibility. The Chinese could end up in total control of all the ranches and estancias. Total control of the agribusiness. Argentina will become a Chinese farm. The Chinese are known for working hard and are notoriously brutal taskmasters. They won't tolerate 6 hour work days and idleness. The Argentines won't be able to get jobs in their own country.
They will begin to die out. The Chinese will own the country eventually.
mmmmm
Sep 04th, 2014 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0the death knell of the argies, a fine prospect of a species of plastic to be replace by bone china..lol
Austral Elvis looked short compared to the Chinese! Is he 5ft tall? Or even smaller?
Sep 04th, 2014 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Napoleon complex comes to mind...
@31
Sep 04th, 2014 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree. By buying out the estates, the Chinese would control considerable food resources to ensure the security of the people back in China. They might even establish a naval base in Argentina, so they can have a presence in the Atlantic.
Not that this would be a problem for the Falkland Islanders. Quite the opposite in fact. I suspect that the Chinese would seek to maximise the food production by striking a deal with the Islanders for mutual exploration of offshore resources. Oil and fisheries.
As Argentina becomes more desperate, Chinese (financial) control will extend to a (Chinese) minister looking after the Chinese interests in the Argentine Government, ensuring that China's investments are protected from any YPF/Repsol style nationalisation.
It will be amusing to see the Chinese teach the Argentines a few lessons about hard work. It might even be the salvation for the Argentine people by getting them off their lazy backsides and teaching them to earn their living with a proper job, rather than expecting the rest of the world to hand them money for nothing.
No telling where this will go as the Chinese are...well, inscrutable...
Sep 04th, 2014 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A couple of things we know for certain:
-If you have ever unfortunately gotten into debt with a loanshark with a crooked nose, then you have somewhat of an idea of what happens when you try “defaulting”...
- China rarely gets swindled in the long term. Normally our inscrutable friends from the Far East play the long game and end taking all the chips on the table...
@21 CD
Sep 04th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL. Maybe Conq is auditioning.
Will Argentina become a client state of China?
Sep 05th, 2014 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0That depends on your definition of 'client'.
Sep 05th, 2014 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In my view they would become another province of the Chinese state. Hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Chinese would be brought to Argentina to build the infrastructure, the roads, the sewers, the mines, the oil fields and then they would spread to the estates.
Chinese millionaires would then buy up the land and bring in Chinese workers (peasants) to operate the farms at a much lower cost. The vast majority of the exports would be to China and in return, Argentina would buy goods from China for distribution amongst the Mercosur states.
It's the old Trojan Horse policy used successfully by the Japanese when they built factories in the UK for exporting their cars into the EU.
Yes, by client-state, I meant dependent. I agree with your points above. I can see that happening.
Sep 05th, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Currently in Venezuela you can only by really low quality chinese goods, particularly clothes. There is harldy any other choice.
I remember 15 years ago when the shopping malls and supermarkets were on a European-level when it came to quality and range. The street markets were amazing too.
That has all gone now.
Venezuela currently owes China US$25 billion.
That also has gone now...
Makes me sad.
@38
Sep 05th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can see it now. The “Boludoland Protectorate.”
not long now...
Sep 05th, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hope paul-carrion is learning Chinese!
hahahahaha!
NATO conference in Wales right now. Does the world even notice Argentina these days?
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