MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
IMF warns about the negative reactions from markets if Scotland becomes independent
Scotland’s possible secession from the United Kingdom as a result of the upcoming referendum could cause negative market reactions in the short-term, William Murray, Deputy Spokesman at International Monetary Fund (IMF), told reporters Thursday. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesFear mongering never ends does it?
Sep 12th, 2014 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Probably a day before the election Cameron will say: YES vote in Scotland might cause meteorite strike.
Fearmongering? The only people who should be living in fear are Wee Fat Eck and his Comrades. I say this as someone who has come into contact with him quite a few times since the early 90s; Alex Salmond is a noxious, lying little scroat who will do anything to get his own way and doesn't care how many people get hurt along the way.
Sep 12th, 2014 - 05:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds a bit like Kretina doesn't he?
i accept the right of scotland to vote for independence
Sep 12th, 2014 - 06:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0I just wish the voters were allowed to see the real truths and not those pushed by wee eck and the krankie kid.
I also dont think its right that wee eck decided who can vote, as it actually turns out French and German people living in scotland can vote whereas my friend who has generations of scotish blood had to move south for work cannot vote. Where is the fairness in that, especially as some european nations want the split as they think it may break us over europe. Pah
You cannot negociate with the likes of Salmond all he does is shout down all opposition, typical “jock” or Argentine come to that. A bit like an ostrich burying his head in the sand. Sturgeon says that Scotland has huge resourses, What are they OIL only? And when the oil runs out what then.
Sep 12th, 2014 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0“And when the oil runs out what then.”
Sep 12th, 2014 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then King Alex will proclaim that it's all English lies and if the Scots stick with him the oil will miraculously flow again for ever and ever and ever and......
3 Vulcan - And slimy Salmond has also refused to allow Scottish men and women serving in the Armed Forces, and their families, the right to vote if they just happened to on rotation based outside Scotland during the time of the referendum!
Sep 12th, 2014 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shoes the type of “Democracy” he will operate if he wins. He knows which way the great majority of Scottish servicemen/women would vote of course!
Loved George Galloway at the 1st time teenagers vote debate last night- I never thought the day would come when I would say well done George! He spoke a lot of sense and in a straight way the teenagers could understand - not the meaningless political drivel of the others.
IMF
Sep 12th, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0do we really need your input.
Please i am a little confused here......
Sep 12th, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are not Scottish...but living in Scotland you get to vote????
But if you are Scottish....and not living in Scotland you don't get to Vote Correct???
And if Scotland votes for independence the get 100% of the “scottish” oil???
I hope they get there independence if that is what they Want and i wish them the best of luck for the future. But INDEPENDENCE means INDEPENDENCE
So how can they keep the “British” pound if they are not part of Britain????
@1. Fearmongering? But fear is justified. As it sets out on its 'new' path, scotland will have no money, no defences, no trade, no travel to other countries, no valid passports, no valid vehicle registration, no tax structure, incredible debts, higher prices, no access to money markets, no support from elsewhere. Do you think there might be some cause for 'fear'?
Sep 12th, 2014 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Salmond is using the CFK playbook. “Everything will be alright on the night”. Except it won't. The scotch will get crucified. I wonder if Salmond will seek a 'safe haven' many miles away? And the 'future' for the scotch? Many, many years of being not trusted. Will they be able to get a job, a house, a loan? Will they have to stay in scotland to avoid being spat on?
Well the scots should be very nervous, considering the north Korean government and CFKs government supports Scottish independence as a future possible business partnership.
Sep 12th, 2014 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0what a new start they would have, a new golden triangle.
Conqueror
Sep 12th, 2014 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Personally I hope the union continues, but it's those who reside in Scotland to democratically make that decision.
As far as “not having money” I would remind you that a divorce works in a similar fashion. Your wife may not be the official owner of your home, car, bank account, club membership, pension, investments... But by the time she has the divorce decree, she owns over half and you're out on the street...
Publicizing the endorsement of North Korea was a propaganda ploy. There are many well respected individuals that are supporting a yes vote.
#11 “There are many well respected individuals that are supporting a yes vote.” Here is one of them - not.
Sep 12th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11091801/Big-business-warned-of-day-of-reckoning-if-Scots-vote-Yes.html
@11 Scotland is not going to get half of the British wealth. Under the current union the Scots get more than their 'fair share' of the pot per capita but would be reduced to what they are entitled to if the become independent, which is less. Independence means no more subsidies from other union tax-payers.
Sep 12th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is not a domestic divorce and shouldn't be compared to one. It is entirely different. I support totally the Scots right to be independent if they so wish but they should have the facts and not the fairytale being bandied about by Salmond. If they decide after knowing the facts that they want to go it alone, with all that entails, fair enough.
@11 Chicureo
Sep 12th, 2014 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you say is partially true, but what the Scottish Nationalists are conveniently 'ignoring' is the fact that in a divorce everything is shared. That would be the North Sea oil (many of the oil fields are off the shores of the North of England as well as Scotland). Also the national debt. Scotland would have to take it's own fair share of that too - which the Scottish Nationalists deny.
Salmond has PROMISED them that it will basically be business as usual. In other words Scotland will remain EXACTLY as it is but with 'no interference' from Westminster. However the numbers don't add up at all, and Salmond keeps saying that they can discuss AFTER the referendum. Hmm, I wouldn't bet my future on someone who won't discuss how an independent Scotland would be funded.
What he fails to recognise is that IF Scotland cedes from the UK then they cede from EVERY treaty that the UK has signed.
This includes:
The North Sea Gas and Oil treaty - which would mean that either an equitable solution is found to share the UK's oil and gas OR the WHOLE treaty be renegotiated. If it is renegotiated then countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Germany, France, Belgium AND the rest of the UK would attempt to get a bigger slice of the pie. So either way Scotland won't end up with ALL the gas and oil that Salmon has promised them.
The UN - Scotland would have to apply to join as an independent nation, plus they would lose the kudos of being only one of 5 countries with a permanent seat at the UNSC.
The EU - yes no matter what Salmond says an independent Scotland would have to apply to join the EU - which means that they would HAVE to adopt the Euro - as all new members MUST. But that at least solves what currency they would use, wouldn't it?
NATO - yup, cede from the UK and you cede from NATO, which means that they would have to apply to join NATO, which isn't a done deal.
If I were Scottish I'd want more reassurances than some vague promises of 'jam today'.
@5 Aspiring King Alexander IV should pay attention to the fate of the previous Scots king of that name. He fell (or was pushed) over a cliff on a stormy March night on the coast of Fife. He was found next day washed up on the beach with a broken neck like a beached whale.
Sep 12th, 2014 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And of course Orkney and Shetland were not part of Scotland.
History does at times have a habit of repeating itself.
Elaine
Sep 12th, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was simplistically addressing Conqueror, and certainly the disunion would be far more complex as well as not like a domestic divorce. I agree with your post completely. I don't think they really care about the subsidies as they all think they've been doing that to the rest of the UK with their oil.
LEPRecon
Again, I personally would like to see the union continue, but respectfully I would disagree that Scotland would find itself outside the EU, without NATO membership, outside the Pound currency agreement and not necessarily is it such a bad thing no longer having a vote on the security counsel of the UN.
Norway, Switzerland and Iceland seem to be surviving outside the EU and Euro, perhaps being away from the stupid regulations will be better anyway.
I also imagine that the North Sea oil fields will be respected by the remainder of Europe as well new technologies will increase the proven reserves.
Already there is speculation in the defense industry that Britain will be pressured to agree for a special entry of Scotland into NATO to maintain the submarine base.
Help me, what exactly happens to Orkney and Shetland, do they have any options or do they reman with Scotland? The fisheries alone must be worth a fortune.
16
Sep 12th, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing happens....they are part of Scotland's territory....
That would be like parts of England...Isle of Wight or Cornwall having an option for splitting....territorial integrity would trump self determination....
Independent Scotland: Naked and alone as UK counter-terrorist and crime fighting assets withdrawn
Sep 12th, 2014 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.guerillapolicy.org/policing/2014/09/12/independent-scotland-naked-and-alone-as-uk-counter-terrorist-and-crime-fighting-assets-withdrawn/
.
@chicureo
Sep 12th, 2014 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“but respectfully I would disagree that Scotland would find itself outside the EU, without NATO membership, outside the Pound currency agreement”
Two of your points are mutually exclusive. To join the EU you must agree to adopt the Euro for which you must have your own central bank. Scotland will need its own currency and central bank to be able to do this and thus keeping the pound means not joining the EU. A currency union with rUK will not happen a) because it would be economic madness and b) it would require the approval of the rUK citizens Scotland had just told to s*d off. That Salmond persists with the sterlingisation charade just shows him up for what he is and that 48% of Scots believe him reflects very badly indeed on a country i hold dear.
@17
The UK is not invoking territorial integrity to block Scottish independence, therefore what would Salmond look like if the first thing he did was to block SD for Shetlanders just because he wants their oil. That said, I am unaware of any significant secessionist tendency in the Shetlands.
Chicureo (#16) '... what exactly happens to Orkney and Shetland, do they have any options or do they remain with Scotland? '
Sep 12th, 2014 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Voice (#17) 'Nothing happens....they are part of Scotland's territory....'
Wow, Voice must have a direct line to God-in-the-form-of-the Salmon.
Has the Salmon spoken? If he says it is so, then it must be so.
@20 the subject of Orkney and Shetland sends the Gnats ballistic as only 9% of that lot voted SNP at the last election.
Sep 12th, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Voice Suggest you read the comments in the Shetland Times and The Orcadian and also look up what the sixteen year old kids at Orkney and Stromness high school voting intentions are.
Part of Scotland's integral territory? Bollocks! If your so keen on referendums shouldn't The Northern Isles have one to find out if they want to be ruled from Edinburgh?
They are a perfectly viable community on their own even without the oil which is rightfully theirs.
So uphellya.
19/20/21
Sep 12th, 2014 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simply put...it's like this....
Scotland is a different country, different Parliament, different law from England....territorial integrity is a grey area concerning the UK, as both countries gave up their “Country ...Sovereign status”
Having said that the UK didn't legally have to let Scotland have a referendum in the first place, they even had to bring in legislation to allow it....but the UK was over confident and allowed it....
This is not the case with Shetland it was part of Scottish territory before the Union....ergo territorial integrity will apply...
The true goal of the SNP.
Sep 13th, 2014 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0: ‘The Yes campaign’s mask slipped today as Jim Sillars revealed their message for the final week of this campaign – vote yes or else.
JIM SILLARS' RANT IN FULL [part]
The No camp fear mongering has had an effect on me – instead of retiring on 19th. September, I am staying in. This referendum is about [ power ], and when we get a Yes majority, we will use that power for a day of reckoning with BP and the banks.
The heads of these companies are rich men, in cahoots with English Tory Prime Minister, to keep Scotland’s poor
democracy will come to an end with a Yes.
BP, in an independent Scotland, will need to learn the meaning of nationalisation, in part or in whole, as it has in other countries who have not been as soft as we have forced to b
. If it wants into the ‘monster fields’ in the areas west of Shetland, it will have to learn to bend the knee to a greater power –[ us, ] the sovereign people of Scotland. We will be the masters of the oil fields, not BP or any other of the majors. If Bob Dudley thinks this is mere rhetoric, just let him wait. It is sovereign power that counts. We will have it, he will not.
As for the Bankers.
the profits, will be over. You will be split between retail and investment, and if your greed takes the latter down, there will be no rescue. You believe in the market, in future you will live with its discipline. Fail will mean failure.
As for Standard Life, it will be required by new employment laws to give two years warning of any redundancies, and reveal to the trade unions its financial reasons for relocation to any country outside of Scotland, and the costs involved.
As for John Lewis, the question is whether the senior management consulted the ‘partners’ or took instructions from Cameron? Another question our supine BBC did not ask.they will be punished .
What kind of people do these companies think we are? They will find out.
We will be in charge if the SNP wins, he will say.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk
Thats done it. Scots are a canny lot with their bawbees and will vote NO. The prospect of replacing the saltire with the hammer and sycle is fully outlined and may be aceptable to some but not many
Sep 13th, 2014 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Independence doesn't to come from the referendum. Independence will be declared in March 2016 I think.
Sep 13th, 2014 - 03:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0So up to that point, Orkney and Shetland are part of the UK and May be granted referenda as was Scotland. Scotland would be unable to stand in the way of this as Westminster is still the supreme parliament in the UK.
So Scotland may lose them.
There is no national laws within the UK regarding territorial integrity.
Voice
Sep 13th, 2014 - 03:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who created the United Kingdom? None other than your Jamie Saxt aka James 1st.
He scuttled off to England and never returned to Scotland and indeed afterwards referred to Scotland as North Britain
The Orkney and Shetland Islands are part of the UK...they are part of the current territorial integrity of the UK...they have been part of the UK FAR longer than they were ever part of an Independent Scotland.
Sep 13th, 2014 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let them vote...
Voicey is shitting his pants. No Orkney, No Shetlands, No Oil...socialist (communist) dog shite will drive Scotland into the 3rd world all the sooner without the Oil...but it only prevents the inevitable.
Jim Sillars anticipates the nationalisation of the oil industry in 'Scottish waters' - wow!
Sep 13th, 2014 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0I seem to remember Argentina did this with Repsol
I seem to remember Russia did this with BP or Shell
Scotland is setting out its game-plan, and it is arguably both communist and fascist; it is certainly non-democratic in terms that we, South of the Border, understand.
He speaks for the SNP as if it becomes a done deal that they will rule Scotland - with the iron hand of a warlord
(see Brit #23).
[But, there again, it is the Daily Mail reporting what Jim Sillars said,
so it might be all darstardly lies by the perfidious English press
- to Scots Nats, the Southern Albion was ever thus;
take your pick]
To me, Jim Sillars was always a dangerous life-long zealot - unlike 'his' Scottish people, who Sillars dismissed in 1992 as '90 minute patriots.'
It is a great opportunity for the UK to proceed with a political revolution; Democracy debate and shake-up.
Sep 13th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps a Federation of the United Kingdom (although the acronym may not be entirely acceptable...)
We could keep the Flag as it is ( Federation) and each nation has its own flag.
Where to put a Federation Capital (halfway between England, Wales,and Scotland.
@28
Sep 13th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0not just the daily mail
He said: “This referendum is about power, and when we get a Yes majority, we will use that power for a day of reckoning with BP and the banks.
“The heads of these companies are rich men, in cahoots with a rich English Tory Prime Minister, to keep Scotland’s poor, poorer through lies and distortions. The power they have now to subvert our democracy will come to an end with a Yes.”
He added: “BP, in an independent Scotland, will need to learn the meaning of nationalisation, in part or in whole, as it has in other countries who have not been as soft as we have forced to be. We will be the masters of the oil fields, not BP or any other of the majors.”
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/day-of-reckoning-post-yes-vote-says-jim-sillars-1-3539754
There is another side: the little old lady; the mother and husband ; the police officer, butcher-baker and candlestick maker; all those ordinary folk who are going to vote. They aren't all sheep following Right Wing, Left Wing or Chicken Wing. And some Don't Knows
Sep 13th, 2014 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The ranters don't know how it will turn out.
I want to see it...I really really want to see it.
Sep 13th, 2014 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Scotland be run by the likes of Salmond, sillars, Brown and Darling.
Totally UN tethered unrestricted Socialism.
Michael Foot style Nationalisation, huge tax hikes for the rich, massive spending on social projects, and vetoed entrance to the EU (by the rUK), no currency, vetoed currency union, no ability to borrow (due to their default)....
They may get by, after the massive depression as the money flees across the border...they may...I'd say an economic cataclysm worse than Greeces for a decade, followed by maybe 5 years of recovery to maybe a GDP 1/2 today's, followed by another cataclysmic crash when the oil starts running out in 2030, which made the first look like a holiday.
Numerous unionist referenda begging to be allowed back in the now enormously prosperous UK...the answer...“it would be wrong for Westminster to interfere with Scottish issues”“”.....have a few food parcels...and please could you control the refugees trying to get over the border....they stink of piss...and keep threatening to beat up our pensioners.
......didn't like that rant from the likes of Sillars....
Sep 13th, 2014 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nationalisation....back to the good 'ole bad 'ole days...
Bad idea running his mouth off like that....
...it's fine for the Nats to wallow in this kind of backward mentality, but for folk looking for the most beneficial route for Scotland and that includes the majority....
That rant was an eyeopener.....Salmond will be furious...I reckon...
Comment removed by the editor.
Sep 13th, 2014 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think @14 LEPRecon makes the most important points quite clear.
Sep 14th, 2014 - 02:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0IMHO!
Sorry that somebody took offence at my innocuous posting (#34).
Sep 14th, 2014 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Remind me what I said and I will try to say it better.
@36 Geoff
Sep 14th, 2014 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Martin Niemoller. “First they came for the communists...” I don't even speak German, but the quote is so familiar it was easy to figure out what you meant. Why MP felt compelled to delete it is beyond me.
Thanks Heisenberg.
Sep 14th, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My point was - obviously - that, if you don't shout out about what's wrong, you only have yourself to blame.
Unfortunately, the UK Government disenfranchised 90% of the UK population from having any influence on the dismantling of the United Kingdom. Sometimes even governments fail to see the big picture.
Never stop shouting, and occasionally the right people will hear what you say.
Use the social media and the right blogs, and interested people will - at least - hear your point of view.
Put yourself in the right position and you can influence the course of events.
Never stop shouting.
@38
Sep 14th, 2014 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No worries. Your point is well taken.
Scottish independence: Nationalists demand Nick Robinson sacking in vocal anti-BBC protest
Sep 14th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11095752/Scottish-independence-Nationalists-demand-Nick-Robinson-sacking-in-vocal-anti-BBC-protest.html
The scenes came as Alex Salmon repeated his allegation that the BBC is against independence, saying the Corporation was “absolutely” biased for the Union
They will be punished if a yes vote
Is this what you want????
.
The BBC biased and supporting Britain......;-)...well hell yes, a clue would be in the name....British Broadcasting Corporation.....
Sep 14th, 2014 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I ....being resident in Scotland, do hereby distance myself from the lunatic examples of Scottish Nationalists and their antics. This is a small minority of people that are giving ordinary folk a bad name......
Agreed,
Sep 14th, 2014 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've purposely stayed away from posting on this thread as I'm a Latin with no justifiable expertise on the situation. I was very curious about what would happen to the islands and several conflicting opinions were given.
Sep 14th, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even reading posts from the inhabitants of Orkney and the Shetlands, nothing is truly clear. The range of opinion is that they vote to be like to be like the Channel island, to joining Norway, to remaining with Scotland or the UK.
Everyone seems frustrated about the lack of clear information... Even the Soviets had a clear plan.
Regarding the EU, there are several French politicians supporting a “special status entry invitation” to the newly independent nation of Scotland. The debate of bloggers in Belgium is very fierce, as several are thinking it would be a positive precedent fas there are several other EU nations with similar situations. (Belgium, Spain, perhaps even Wales...)
I saw a video of YES voters in front of the ScottishBBC offices yelling a very impolite suggestion where something should be shoved up...
Perhaps the NO vote is overplaying their hand.
It's getting out of control here...the Nat's have now been calling for people to boycott B&Q, Asda, Sainsbury and John Lewis...a day of reckoning....
Sep 15th, 2014 - 01:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Facebook is being utilised....also there are lots of Yes voters posing as 'undecided' saying they have been won over in the last few days by the Yes campaign in an attempt to swing votes....
I know some of these “undecided” to be nationalists......
Roll on Thursday...I've had enough.....
Normal folk are being stirred up into some sort of Nationalistic fervour.....
...they weren't at all nationalistic before this pantomime.....
...people are not thinking straight....
Right, Briton,
Sep 15th, 2014 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0the secret's in the name BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation.
The Salmon dissed Robinson at a Press Briefing and cut him off - poor tactics as the commentator always gets the last word.
Still, if there is a Yes vote, Scotland need never be mentioned again by the (B)BC.
I have seen nationalistic fervour - real and artificial - many times in my life; Scotland's fervour most similarly matches that of North Korea.
Warn them, Voice, not to tear up their Visas when going through the English Border Control!
Come Friday at least we will know one way or another,
Sep 15th, 2014 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0then we can get on and deal with other things,
one tends to get the uneasy feeling that this may or may not be over shadowing David's decision on this [ IS ] lot.
If they vote “ Yes ” tomorrow , it will be business as usual .
Sep 17th, 2014 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An English army will go up there , burn them out of their crofts ( well , in this day and age council estates ) and force them all to emigrate .
Salmond will be hung drawn and quartered and his limbs nailed to Holyrood Palace .
In years to come it will be known as the estate clearances instead of the Highland clearances .
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