MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina's defense budget with many pledges but not much beef
The Argentine 2015 budget contemplates 25.2 billion pesos (*) for the Defense ministry which includes refurbishing aircraft, tanks, sea vessels and the incorporation of state of the art radars for air space control, according to the bill presented to Congress this last week. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesHad to get out the old Janes to even find this stuff. rotting roadkill should be very well equiped to fight a war against an urban insurrection or a pre-columbian invader.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 08:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0rotting roadkill, your Gringo Amigos salute you. Salute!
I think if any South American country wanted to take some land back from Argentina, now would be the time.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 025 billion pesos? Better spend it all now. Maybe the Falklands should invade Argentina. I guess TTT won't be getting his defence shield this year.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice photo of the ships. I am puzzled, which one is preventing the other from sinking?
Sep 20th, 2014 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's why they are lashed together, isn't it?
This is a complete joke. What “threats to the nation” are they talking about? No one is threatening Argentina now, nor is anyone likely to in the future. More tub-thumping for the masses. More grist for La Campora mill.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 03 billion dollars is hardly a proper defence budget for a serious player. It is less than the cost of ONE of Great Britain's TWO new aircraft carriers.
I would like to see the Argentine Government explain in detail, with proof, exactly what these 'threats to the vital interests to the nation' are.
Who, or what, is threatening the nation?
Can anyone explain?
Or is this more propaganda so typical of this type of government?
Pretty much how much Australia spends per month.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0They would probably point towards the mythical massive NATO base located on the Falkland islands, describe it as a threat to Argentina, the entire South Americas and an unacceptable Militarisation of the South Atlantic.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The rest of the world of course knows it for what it is, a small defence force, imposed on the Islanders as a direct result of armed Argentine aggression, compelled to remain there because of a real belief that Argentine can not be trusted to behave peacefully in the future.
No word, agreement or treaty from them is worth anything, because they constantly break, breach, ignore or deny it applies to them, even in the highest political forum of the world.
@7
Sep 20th, 2014 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct of course. It is impossible to trust a country that does not pay its debts, breaks treaties and ignores respected international conventions, yet still goes screaming to UN at every opportunity.
Shwouting “it's not fair!”. When of course it is, but they just don't like it.
Cristina is an embarrassment to the human race. Now she is increasing military spending just when the lights are about to go out and food scarcity looms. Classic tinpot despot behaviour.
The Argentines should be ashamed that they have let this come to pass.
Meanwhile Britain confirms that her 2nd large carrier (under construction) will enter service and BAE / MBDA continue to develop new missiles for the new Type 26 frigates and aircraft (Sea Ceptor, Meteor, Perseus etc). The production line for nuclear powered submarines continues its work with HMS Artful launched this year, 4 more building / contracts signed. The technological gap between British and Argentine military capabilities grows ever wider.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0She going to use these new armaments against things like ISIS or her own people?
Sep 20th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina capitalized in the fact that it exists in a very peaceful neighbourhood. Added to the fact the govts have not trusted the armed forces for decades and State class still has their minds living in the cold war.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But the growing differential of military power between Brazil and Argentina might invite trouble in the future in the Parana river system
Time for Paraguay to rearm. ;)
Sep 20th, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The BRICS are negotiating a military pact, including the construction of three naval bases in Brazilian territory.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5wmKX7P3LE
13. That video was from 2 years ago, China is going through a massive economic/political restructuring.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would be very surprised if they come out looking the same when they're done.
They don't have enough u$ to fix what ails them.
Psst...same with Brazil. I hope you aren't counting on a lot of Soy revenue next year or the next or the next...
@14 We are prepared for the price of soybeans. We will make the production of soybeans in the United States disappear from the map in a few years.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 015. Bahahahaha, you've got a long way to go before you could ever top the USA.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A long way.
in anything...good
You'll always top us in poverty, corruption and crime
@16 Arguments is missing. Started swearing!
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0WJcrIy8F8
http://www.statista.com/statistics/267270/production-of-soybeans-by-countries-since-2008/
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By arguments you mean stats? See above.
Brazil is filled with a bunch of Marxist Monkeys that can't find their way out of the jungle.
You'll never be in the top tier of countries no matter what you think and you can't show me one stat to prove it.
Can't pay the holdouts, so where is she getting the money, if she is using local labour could these be ready by 2050?
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would like to know exactly what refurbishing of military equipment consists of.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My guess is 3 new recruits painting a rusty old tank with a 6” paint brush.
“The BRICS are negotiating a military pact, including the construction of three naval bases in Brazilian territory.”
Sep 20th, 2014 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No they are not.
Lots of stories why the Argentinian military is a joke, but excerpts from Wiki is an example:
Sep 20th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ARA San Luis submarine reported three attacks on Royal Navy ships during the war. On May 1, HMS Brilliant and Yarmouth were sent to hunt down the San Luis operating north of Stanley. San Luis reported firing a German-made SST-4 torpedo which presumably missed its target.
On the night of May 10, San Luis detected the two ships British ships and fired two SST-4 torpedoes, one of which did not leave its tube; the other was apparently defeated by Arrow's anti-torpedo measures.There were several problems with torpedoes and torpedo systems; in particular it appears that the torpedoes were not prepared properly, and did not arm themselves after firing, so would not explode even if they did hit a target. After the Falklands War ended, German and Dutch engineers were sent to Argentina to discover what went wrong with their torpedoes. The problem was so simple as to be unbelievable: one of the Argentine sailors who was in charge of periodic maintenance of the torpedoes had inadvertently reversed the polarity of power cables between the torpedoes and the submarine. This meant that when the torpedoes' gyros were spun up, they ran “backwards” and thus tumbled on launch, preventing the weapons from taking up their proper heading.
There are so many stories of complete stupidity, corruption and gross incompetence in the Argentine Navy alone. The icebreaker scandal is breath taking alone, the barely useable “destroyers”
The air force is a joke (Kfir fighters that are old hand me downs from 3rd world countries), the TAM, the world's worst modern era designed tank, that they can't even give away, they are now MODERNIZING?
@22
Sep 20th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It speaks very low of you when you seem to revel from such stories. A clear manifestation of a paucity of self-esteem.
Aww
Sep 20th, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.. TOBY get to bed!
Anyone else think its weird CFK meets so often with the Pope? Is it because nobody of importance will meet with her?
Sep 20th, 2014 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is very odd.
The Pope needs to tell her to stop bothering him so much.
I guess he is still adjusting and doesn't know what's expected and proper yet.
25 yankeeboy
Sep 20th, 2014 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I think it's weird but it hardly surprises me. Without doubt she'll be abusing her position and asking him to go outside the scope of his in order to help her. It's hard to see what influence the pope could have these days but you never know; religion aside, I guess he is still sort of a head of state of sorts.
To be fair here,
Sep 20th, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seeing as Argentina has no money and must start massive cutbacks to help save them,
We think that considering she has no enemies [only in her own head]
She should disband the air force and the navy altogether; this would save her a couple of billion over 5/10 years,
She could arrange with Brazil to take on her pilots and sailors to keep up technical skills and training,
Reduce her army to say 30-40,000men and arrange training with other South American countries,
Then once she has saved enough cash,
She could give and create jobs in building her very own planes and ship , ready for service in say 2050/60
Just trying to help..
.
CFK + Evita + Pope = desperation. (See her tweet about it)
Sep 20th, 2014 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#23
Sep 20th, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Schadenfreude
Just trying to replace their fighters is nearly impossible, even if they could afford to:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/two-to-tango-argentina-looking-for-new-warplanes-022821/
#27. Briton
I assume you jest. Their domestically patched together helicopter and Puma jet are laughable death traps. Their TAM thank is terrible, their shipyards just trying repairs to their icebreaker and their former aircraft carrier are great examples of outrageous corruption and stupidity. Their pilots already train with the Brazilians and occasionally with the USA (4 years ago) and Chile. Like I said, they really do have nice officer's clubs and their meals are second to none.
jest yes
Sep 20th, 2014 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0mmm lol
@ 22 Chicureo
Sep 20th, 2014 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the TAM, the world's worst modern era designed tank, that they can't even give away, they are now MODERNIZING?”
This from Wiki:
“In 2010, a modernization program was announced. Israeli defense contractor Elbit Systems was chosen to provide 3-axis gyro-stabilization, and most probably the L7A2 105 mm cannon will be replaced with a more powerful 120 mm cannon, like the L44 120 mm Cannon. The first TAM unit upgraded by Elbit Systems arrived on March 13, 2013.”unreliable source?”
I just love the “unreliable source.” This is an update since I last reviewed this article just over 18 months ago whilst doing some research. So, it looks like the pattern is set? I would love to see the knock on problems of changing from the 105 mm to the 120 mm, round, starting with the reduction in magazine capactity and round loading and of course how the argies have “solved them”.
Fred Carnot's Circus approach as usual, I suspect.
I wonder if they will be sending this trash to Iraq now for another circus act...... The lunatic president has just announced that she was threatened by the Islamic State because of her “friendship” with the Pope !!!!!
Sep 20th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The same guy that the presidential couple hated when he was cardinal of BsAs
OK I know that she is a desperate victimizer and attention seeker but this is completely off limits.
As if Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi cared about who she is or knew where Argentina is in the map... LOL what a joke
”(*) 25.2bn Pesos at the official rate is approx 3 billion Dollars, but at the informal rate of 15 Pesos means 1.7bn dollars ” ... which - when they get around to spending it - will be worth about .17 bn dollars
Sep 20th, 2014 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'The Air Force is planning to modernize the Hercules C-130 cargo aircraft '
'the'? ... I thought they had 4... none airworthy mind you. Remember when they had to borrow one from Uruguay to service their base in Anarctica.....?
They have four ageing destroyers that are described as follows:
Sep 20th, 2014 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As of 2013 it is reported that these vessels are suffering from engine problems, a lack of spares, lack of training and are unarmed due to their naval ordnance being expired.”
No wonder they shit themselves when the Dauntless paid them a visit.
In the world of defence spending 1.7 billion dollars is actually very small beer.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#31 Chris R
Sep 20th, 2014 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The former Thyssen-Henschel was always frustrated in their design collaboration of the TAM. Eventually only was upgraded as you mention and the results by Elbit were very unsatisfactory.
#33 Frank
Actually the Argentines said they would support the Embraer proposed replacement, but who believes them any more?
#34 Britworker
The Rolls Royce powered “destroyers” have not been properly serviced for over a decade. You can only imagine what happens...
@31 ChrisR
Sep 21st, 2014 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0”starting with the reduction in magazine capactity and round loading and of course how the argies have “solved them”.
The increased round size is a red herring.
In tandem with equipping their Pampers ejection seats with diapers, they have discovered how to shoot diapers out of a TAM tank barrel, that automatically unfold at the end of the barrel, so that the tanks can mass surrender in unison-clever, these Argy technicians....
#37. Pete
Sep 21st, 2014 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Regarding modifications, you fail to mention the four speed reverse gearbox that allows a rapid retreat of tank battalions at a moments notice.
Argentina has sufficient technical and human resources to defend against external threats. But this looks very distant, the relations with our brotherly countries is excellent especially Brazil, Chile, Bolivia and Paraguay: this is what most irritates Uk and USA.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 02:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo remenber when chile suffered the 2010 earthquake, and you did not have a campaing hospital, but Argentina react quickly and send our argentine mobile field hospital to care for and protect our Chilean brothers (you will have many F16 but no aspirin, disinfectant or Band-Aids for your own people).
@37.... 'The increased round size is a red herring.'
Sep 21st, 2014 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually they are suppositories... the bigger they are the quicker the RGs will shit themselves when things start to go BANG.
@40 Frank,
Sep 21st, 2014 - 06:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stop Frank, you're making me laugh that much, l've spilled my coffee.
Still giggling.
@17 that Brazilian kid,
Do you want the Russians to do your fighting for you?
They might, but there would be a price to pay.
Are you ready to pay the price?
@39
Sep 21st, 2014 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina has sufficient technical and human resources to defend against external threats. But this looks very distant, the relations with our brotherly countries is excellent especially Brazil, Chile, Bolivia and Paraguay: this is what most irritates Uk and USA.”
So you accept that the UK is not a threat then? Because your President and Foreign Minister often complain about our “militarisation of the S.Atlantic”. As for how we feel, i would describe it more as amused than irritated.
Argentina has no visible enemies,
Sep 21st, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0so why not reduce the military until you can deal with bigger problems,
no one is going to invade her,[ unless you can name just one ]
Argentina has a lot of internal problems to deal with.
just saying like
Contrary to what most Argentines believe of US, Chinese or Europeans coming to pillage water and “resources” in a future or fighting for Icebergs and chunks of Ice in Antartica with the UK, Argentina has a geographical rivalry with Brazil and Paraguay. Huge water reserves are sitting on the border and Brazil has no heads of navigation in the Parana river network. They lost them during the last war in the 1820s.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's most significant strategic threat comes from the northern countries that border it and Narco Trafficking gangs.
I'm not sure of Chile on the other side of the Andes in the next generation sitting besides a jackpott (if it is) VM.
Argentina ended up relegating its power and influence in the Southern cone to Brazil. Now Brazil is also facing downhill spiral. Mercosur has completely failed. The countries cant even get trade between eachother agreed and done, despite all the other ideological clubs they share.
If and when Argentina rises again will Brazil willfully surrender itself to Argentine leadership and abandon what it achieved in the last 20 years or so in diplomatic terms??
@39 “ the relations with our brotherly countries is excellent especially Brazil, Chile, Bolivia and Paraguay: ”
Sep 21st, 2014 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0OK what has Uruguay done to piss you off this week?.
TWIMC
Sep 21st, 2014 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I just luuuuuuuuuuuv when a former high ranking officer from our neighbouring Countries comments about the futility, incompetence & corruption of our Argentinean Armed Farces...
It so much highlights the utter corruption, incompetence & futility of their own Armed Farces....
Ps...:
Question to the former attaché...:
Any comment about the alleged connection between Yussef & the latest “Grupúsculo Antisistema”?
@ 46 Lunatic
Sep 21st, 2014 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chile is not threatening the Falklands as is The Dark Country.
Plus, everyting posted about the abysmal state of the armed forces of TDC is true, certainly those posted by me.
I notice you did not challenge the veracity of the same.
I suppose it's too late to expect you to grow up?
Yes everyone, stop picking on the poor RG armed forces, we like them just the way they are.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Useless!
Redrow; : Naturally, if Argentina thinks some kind of external threat or anything that has to do with the military automatically think in UK: this thinking is already daily: is a subject of conversation at any gathering of friends and family.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the same way, your guys should think in mount Pleasant (“700 km of us have 40 million Argentines who want to invade us ”): This whole situation like a Stockholm syndrome between Argentina and UK.
Personally I do not think the uk that is a real threat from the point of view that you want to invade Argentina, I think this is a matter of mediatic fireworks. Remenber that UK invaded Buenos Aires twice (in 1806 and 1807) which were defeated by the local population.
As for the militarization of the South Atlantic: in the decade of the 90 Argentina wanted to develop a missile system (missile Condor) to defend against external threats, but the government of USA persuaded the Argentine government to dont do this because this would create a climate of instability in our region. At that time existed excelents relations with the White House.
The issue now with you is the use of mount pleasant not as a simple base of UK in the south Atlantic, but that mount pleasant to be used as a base of NATO with NUCLEARS WEAPONS.
When you mention “as amused than irritated”: this does not require you to say, it all here in Argentina know that. It is the typical English way of thinking, you feel sure of your military might, your support of NATO, its diplomatic ability to buy wills, etc.
We know how you think and see the Argentine and Latin American.
49 Hernan
Sep 21st, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What?
@39, 49. I'm so glad that you're beginning to get the picture. Let's try some FACTS. In 1982 it took British forces 20 days, including a stopover, to sail to OUR Islands. It took us 54 days to defeat argieland. Had argies not been fortunate enough to sink the unprotected Merchant Navy vessel carrying helicopters, it would have taken far less. Instead the guys had to walk.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It might be as well for you to remember that argieland was NOT invaded in 1806 and 1807. British forces, quite properly, raided a spanish possession. It was not an 'invasion'. In 1982 10,000 British troops 'invaded' to recover British territory. They won. In 1806 and 1807, spanish territory was defended by the French.
None of your business how we use Mount Pleasant or the Falkland Islands. It's BRITISH territory. The underground hangars, the submarine bases, the nuclear warhead storage, the missile batteries are OUR affair. Just stay far, far away. Or we could come out to bite you. Just remember that there are few NATO countries with nuclear weapons. Just three. And all three can hit south america.
Just so that you know, Britain can annihilate argieland with little effort. Argieland might have 68 combat aircraft. Britain has 376. What can Britain do from 7,000 miles away?
@49 Hernan
Sep 21st, 2014 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK does not believe that Argentina is likely to invade again. The problem is that we didn't think you would invade last time and so only maintained a tiny defence force on the islands. Your junta misread this as us being unwilling to defend the islands. We will not make that diplomatic mistake again and so the UK forces on and around the Falklands are there more to remind your government not to invade rather than to actually have to fight anyone.
As for irritated/amused, it was you saying that the US and UK were irritated by Argentina's excellent relations with its neighbours. We remain unconvinced that your relations with your neighbours are as excellent as you pretend. Since we are no threat to you at all then by definition your neighbours are more of a threat to you than we are. In any case our judgement is that your greatest threat is internal, which is none of our concern provided that doesn't lead to your government bothering the Falkland Islanders again.
49 hernan
Sep 21st, 2014 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“
”The issue now with you is the use of mount pleasant not as a simple base of UK in the south Atlantic, but that mount pleasant to be used as a base of NATO with NUCLEARS WEAPONS. ”
NATO has nothing to do with the South Atlantic or South America.
NATO is comprised of many nations, not just the UK.
Why would they go along with what you term as a UK aggression, when their mandate is to protect Europe?
The UK is not capable of invading and occupying a country the size of ARGENTINA with a population of 40 million. It is logistically impossible for them.
To use nuclear weapons against a civilian population, as you have no military, would be morally reprehensible to the British and their allies, not to mention, your neighbours.
How would Argentina provoke such a response?
Why would the UK go to huge expenses, and create an International incident by installing nuclear weapons in a peaceful civilian community, when they are not needed to defend the islands from a nearly militarily powerless neighbour?
The Falklands are no threat to you - that's a ridiculous excuse.
If Britain really needed to, they could simply park a sub with nuclear weapons offshore from BA - you would never know.
53. I agree that the UK is not a threat nor Argentina's strategic concern, but the day Argentina decides to arm itself and improve its capabilities to face other possible menaces will the country be able to go to the non Chinese nor Russian arms markets and suppliers and acquire the weapons and means to re balance the power of the region if the UK and NATO fear a Falkland invasion??
Sep 21st, 2014 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 049
Sep 21st, 2014 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina did not exist in 1806/1807.
The UK came into existence in 1927.
Just two SMALL discrepancies with your version of the historical reality!!!
54 CD2
Sep 21st, 2014 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just recently, both Spain and the Israelis agreed to sell fighter planes to Argentina.
56.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They agreed to sell crap to Argentina. It was a basic attempt by CFK to rebuild some diplomatic channels with countries that she herself offended and insulted deliberately like Spain with the confiscation of YPF and other companies and Israel with the Iranian agreement to grotesquely whitewash the AMIA bombings.
Sweden is not NATO but would have Saab's agreement being done with Argentina to manufacture 4th generation aircraft -supposing Argentina had the money of course- instead of Brazil not triggered a British Nato reaction??
#39 Hernán
Sep 21st, 2014 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has a long history of providing emergency aid and assistance to Chile. The TAM tank reverse transmission joke went too far. The TAM design however is a disgrace.
#46 Think
Sincerely, glad to see you back.
You miss few details...
I have no special information concerning the special prosecutor Yussef and the terrorists but a great deal of information is being withheld from the media. A total of 9 or more suspects are in detention, some apparently former MAPU members, 3 were caught with bomb making supplies and there is a connection throughout the left with radical groups. We'll just have to wait for more information.
(58) Chicureo
Sep 21st, 2014 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You, of course, choose to believe in the well known “Subversive Communist Group” theory...
I prefer the good old “Strategy of Tension” hypothesis...
We'll just have to wait for more info..., I reckon.
Wow, thanks for the replies, respect their opinions, impossible to answer them all.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Troy tempest: your assertion “If Britain really needed to, they 'Could simply park a sub with nuclear weapons offshore from BA - you would never know.” Please ask you something: take a minute and think about this nonsense and foolishness thats you wrote.
I never listen to any Argentine (family, friends, relatives, in the street or in the public media) talk about, intimidate, hitting or hurting kelpers, English. On the contrary, we believe that you, kelpers and English and are educated and right people. Your statements are offensive and destructive, not for ourselves, but for yourself as a person.
Redrow, believe me when I say they are excellents, compared to 30 0 40 years ago, when the military dictatorships of the region are threatened each other.
The reality today is that claims for Falkland, will continue forever, no matter the color of the government. Very probably in 2015 when the Argentines, back to the polls to elect a president, we choose an option center-right: Sergio Massa, Daniel Scioli, Mauricio Macri or Julio Cobos. They will continued the claim for our legitimate and peaceful demands for Gran Malvina y Soledad within the UN.
As for our armed forces, their task today is clear, protect us from the threat of drug trafficking, improving border patrols (especially Bolivia and Paraguay) through which enter the drugs to our country, as well as creating a radar system for protect our air space and continue to participate in peacekeeping missions of the UN.
Maybe you can not believe but Argentine military peacekeeping mission in Cyprus are under the command of an English colonel.
49 Hernán
Sep 21st, 2014 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The issue now with you is the use of mount pleasant not as a simple base of UK in the south Atlantic, but that mount pleasant to be used as a base of NATO with NUCLEARS WEAPONS. ”
Yes, yes, yes that's really great but I've got 2 questions for you:-
1st:- Why are you believing EVERYTHING that your despotic ( lying and cheating and stealing ) government tells you
and
2nd:- Why would NATO want a base in the South Altantic? N.A.T.O The clue is in the name, my ill informed friend.
North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. Repeat after me..........North Atlantic. So, why would a common defense organisation want a base in the SOUTH Atlantic?? or have you swallowed the lies that your president has told you?
Answers on a postcard please...............
@ 49 Hernán
Sep 21st, 2014 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Remember that UK invaded Buenos Aires twice (in 1806 and 1807) which were defeated by the local population.” Yes, we are aware that Britain invaded Buenos Aires in 1806 and 1807 when Buenos Aires was a SPANISH colonial city and Argentina did not exist.
Another half truth just like all the trolls¡
@60 Hernán
Sep 21st, 2014 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It doesn't surprise me at all that the UK and Argentina can sometimes work together, we had excellent relations from 1850 until WW2. We resolved all differences with the peace treaty in 1850 and so it was sad that Peron started the dispute again when he thought the UK was going to lose WW2. We didn't lose and no Argentine leader has ever felt able to back down since. I assume that you are aware that the ICJ can hand sovereignty of the Falklands to Argentina if you can win your case there. I assume that you are also aware that no Argentine government has or will ever go to the ICJ over the Falklands. Three times we asked you to go to the ICJ over South Georgia, we even filed the papers on the 3rd occasion, but each time your government refused. In contrast, you took Chile to the ICJ over the Beagle Channel and Uruguay there over the paper mill. So the countries you say you have excellent relations with you keep taking to court, but the one country you have the biggest dispute with, you refuse to take to court. Why is that?
Personally I think you should take us to the ICJ, as it may finally help convince your people that the islands belong not to Argentina but to the people of the Falkland Islands. Once settled, then Argentina and the UK can return to our previous friendly relations.
Personally I think you should take us to the ICJ,
Sep 21st, 2014 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0totally agree.
@60 Hernán over to you..
Brainwased Anglo Turnip at (61) asks...:
Sep 21st, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“- Why would NATO want a base in the South Altantic?”
I say...:
The clue is in the name..., you ill informed turnip:
IATO...: Iraq Attack Treaty Organization
LATO...: Libya Attack Treaty Organization.
UATO...: Ukraine Attack Treaty Organization.
AATO...: Afghanistan Attack Treaty Organization.
SATO I..: Syria Attack Treaty Organization.
SATO II...: Sudan Attack Treaty Organization.
SATO III..: Somalia Attack Treaty Organization....
¿SATO IV...: South America Attack Treaty Organization?
#”60 Hernán
Sep 21st, 2014 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK, nor the US is going to park a nuclear submarine off your coast and lob a nuclear missile into Buenos Aires. They could do that from far away with complete accuracy. (I can't vouch for China though...)
Perhaps under a new president who were honest and wished to eliminate corruption, which would take at least a decade... it might be truly possible to address the need to organize your armed forces. I totally agree that their task today should be focused protecting your borders and defending your internationally agreed upon maritime territory.
You don't need so many old decrepit fighter jets, nor do you need a proposed nuclear submarine. Your younger frigates and patrol craft need to completely overhauled and certainly you need to really get to the bottom of finding out where all the money went on rebuilding our icebreaker. (Hint: Same thing happened with your aircraft carrier decades ago). A large number of your ancient naval vessels need to be sent to the scrap yards. You do need new helicopters, new patrol aircraft, etc... Emergency response capabilities in general.
You nobly, as do your neighbors Chile and Uruguay, contribute to the UN Peacekeeping forces and your officers hospitality and cooperation with other UN commands has always been excellent.
As far as to you “rattling your saber” from time to time, and making bellicose statements to distract the Argentine people from their nations' mess; well that's why there are around a thousand defense personnel, a few fighter jets, a frigate and an occasional nuclear powered submarine to sober your passion. Frankly, you don't have the best reputation for keeping your promises.
You may continue to wail and cry about your pretensions to your mythical “Gran Malvina y Soledad” and certainly you've even convinced a number of nations, including China, Venezuela and even The Grand Duchy of Fenwick, but you'll never convince the rightful inhabitants there to be a part of your corrupt state.
Why would NATO want a base in the South Altantic?”
Sep 21st, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I say...:
The clue is in the name..., :
IATO...:
LATO...: .
UATO...:.
AATO...: .
SATO I..: .
SATO II.
SATO III..:
did not really answer the question Why..
¿SATO IV
65 Think
Sep 21st, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0....and the prize for the most useless post goes to...... Woman hater THINK!!!
Come on down and take a bow, think!!!
Just to clarify, as I am sure that everyone on this forum would like to know, if you could please tell me what a “Brainwased Anglo Turnip” is....
I still say the clue is in the name N.A.T.O ( but only if you spell properly )
lots of love
too old
p.s:- Are you having a nice Stagflation?
Where will YOU be when the lights go out?
(67) Briton...
Sep 21st, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You always remind me of “Pike” from “Dad's Army”
With a pinch of “Manuel” from “Fawlty Towers”...
65 Think
Sep 21st, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remember that thing I said about not being able to spell properly?
More evidence of you being educationally challenged would be right here I feel right here:-
¿SATO IV...: South America Attack Treaty Organization?
Wouldn't that then make it SAATO?
Outed by your own hand......................
@69
Sep 21st, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How very sweet of Gollum,
Still if we can’t take criticism we should not be where.
chuckle .
(71) Briton
Sep 21st, 2014 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jupppp....
Just like Private Pike....
Always good for a pointless comment...
I guess you must be an Aston Villa fan too...
@69 Think,
Sep 21st, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You've finally lost it, mate.
“SATO II- Sudan Attack Treaty Organisation”,
Why on earth would we conceiveably want to attack Sudan.?
MATO- malvinista etc etc, l could quite believe.!
Are you a cupboard drinker, Think?
(73) Isolde
Sep 21st, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know about YOUR personal wishes of attacking them Sudanese Ragheads.....
But I certainly know that NATO attacked them some years ago...
Result???
The Republic of South Sudan...
Please don't be to rough on our esteemed opponent THINK...saying that, I'm a bit perturbed that you THINK would demean the brilliant portrayal of “Manuel” from “Fawlty Towers”. Although he was not really Spanish, he truly was very entertaining.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really, NATO seems to have extended their original mandate, but I really think the UK alone could unilaterally devastate Argentine defenses and the majority of military bases within 24 hours. Probably they'd secretly request some discrete help from a KLH satellite and perhaps some sensitive diplomacy understanding with Brazil, but really they don't need NATO.
74.Must be that the Janjaweed had nothing to do with anything?? All NATOs fault.. Take the Janjaweed refugees to Sweeden since they love being ismlamiphized and raped so much them Sweeds
Sep 21st, 2014 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who would want anything to do with Argentina? The land is beautiful and rich but its ruined by the horribly corrupt and lazy Rgs.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 015/1
I can't wait to see what happens when the 2nd payment is defaulted too.
Cross default
I think the Chinese mentioned something about that....
:)
(75) Chicureo
Sep 21st, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said Briton had a “pinch” of Manuel...
He, as Manuel, is very amusing.... when he keeps quiet ;-)
@ 73 lsolde
Sep 21st, 2014 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Are you a cupboard drinker, Think?”
I think 'Think' is more of a closet drinker but he hasn't come 'out of the closet' yet.
:o)
75 Chicureo
Sep 21st, 2014 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are of course right. We shouldn't be too rough on our esteemed opponent THINK... Normally one wouldn't be so eager to humiliate oneself in public but the way THINK just steams on in there...It takes one's breath away.
The way he displays his lack of knowledge and education without a second thought, the way he lets out his hatred of women and his racism If only we were all that brave huh?
But you are right of course.... Given all of the above, I think he reminds me of Rigsby ( Leonard Rossiter character from rising damp ) even when he is not posting.
I love the feeling of confidence and security that I have from being a British subject. Our Armed Forces are not only truly magnificent, but also the servants of the Crown. And therefore of the people.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Makes me proud, and humble to know that that they will die for me.
Has been proven by my own family.
#79 ChrisR
Sep 21st, 2014 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course he's a drinker of single malts.
72 Think
Sep 21st, 2014 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess you must be an Aston Villa fan too...
Nah, QPR as a kid, only because we live near the bush,
Since then an England fan, still awaiting that illusive cup..lol
,,,,,
@ 41
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We will fight alongside our allies against the tyranny. The tyranny that spies, overthrows governments, apply economic sanctions, make wars. Yes, we would fight for the Russian Federation.
Again, a never-ending rampage of threats, trolling and dick-meassuring contests. We are already used to hear that from the pathetic Argentinian gov, but I see more and more emulators from the Brit side. Shameful.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- I don´t care if what happened in 1806/07 was against Spain, Arg or disneyland. all I regret is that the Brits failed. Twice. Bunch of lazy tea-drinkers, was it so hard to try again? Now Argentina would be like Australia.
- As for the defense budget, just another prove of how neglected this country´s defense is. And further proof that ALL the kirrchnerite´s statement about `sovereignty´ are nothing but BS. Never before has this country being so defenseless and vulnerable to narcos (who, funnily, pay for the kirchnerite´s rallies)
- As for the FI: I´m either too unpatriotic ... or too mature to say: CASE CLOSED. All we should hear is how to get there and drill and make business, not the (now) pointless “but those islands are ours!!!1!!1!!”.
CFK should just concentrate on her own country..
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#86 Briton
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You miss the strategy. The Falklands Islands aré a diversion to keep the Argentine populace distracted from the corrupt economic mess the Argentine people are facing.
On the nuclear armed subs in the secret Falkland base.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) you have no way of knowing where our nuclear armed subs are so anything you say on the subject is BS.
2) our nuclear armed subs have a long enough range that they can sit in the mid Atlantic and hit both Buenos aires and western Russia. With this in mind why would we station them on the Islands.
3) our nuclear armed subs patrol waters from which they can hit countries and assets that are a threat to the UK and our allies. At the moment there are no targets in South America that would fall into this category so why would they be deployed there.
4) the UK has only 4 nuclear armed subs which rotate between port and at sea. If we had 16 or more nuclear armed subs then perhaps we could dedicate one to target Argentina, but we do not.
The idea that Argentina is important enough to justify a strategic nuclear missile boat stationed at the Falklands is laughable. Obviously we could redeploy one if it became necessary but there is just nothing to justify the deployment of such a valuable resource to the area. Your current theory that there is one there is just delusions of grandeur.
Argentina has always been vain but this is just beyond a joke.
#88 Rico
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only nuclear attack in the future is if the Argentines fail to repay their debt service to the Peoples Republic of China. Even then, I doubt they'd attack with nuclear weapons, but instead simply seize ships loaded with soy and crude oil.
Imagine Paul Singer transformed into the Hulk.
The Argentine posters are right . The US Navy and Royal Navy have an enormous submarine base in W Falkland . It's called HMS Penguin .
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One of the reasons so many cruise ships call in at the Falklands is that they also resupply the base at night when all the cruise passengers are asleep .
It is also a good cover for US personnel on the islands , they simply pretend to be cruise ship passengers .
The reason for the base and the huge build up of other troops is to invade Argentina before the Chinese take the place over entirely and take all the ilex .
It is to be a two pronged attack , with another massive force being built up in Chile .
Some of the cruise ships are actually aircraft carriers in disguise , the superstructures are made of fibreglass and can easily be lifted off and discarded .
Others are amphibious landing ships capable of landing an entire US Marine brigade .
British nuclear subs have been known to secretly call into MarDel Plata to give the crews a run ashore to do some shopping , because the sailors are all dulce de leche addicts . The subs tie up next to the Argentine ones , and being painted black and with no one to count how many there are , no one seems to notice the extra one .
The entire SAS are currently living in luxury flats in Puerto Madero , waiting for the order to attack . One of them , Lucas Wilches , got so bored with hanging around in the flat all day that he signed for Tigre FC and now plays in the 1st XI .
You forgot to mention that the Walmington On Sea Airborne Brigade are on constant standby, ready to deploy the instant they receive their orders by Boy Scout Cyclist.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You remember them, highy trained, highly motivated veterans that save the last round for themselves, shame they only have one.
#90 Unsurping Pirate
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, yes, U.P., but really things a starting to get a bit tedious here in Chile. Some recent embarrassing questions have been asked about spottings of Tornado and Typhoon fighters marked with Chilean Air Force roundels and fuselages labeled “Fuersa Aéria de Chile” at our airbases here. One TVN news reporter observed the airforce's poor spelling was another example of Chile's educational inequality. One Christian Democrat deputy made an inquiry to the defense department on who approved buying the new Eurofighter, and was told it was free test evaluation trial, sponsored by the British Counsel.
There also have been an unfortunate bad ski season at Portillo ski resort, and the hotel bar bill racked up at the hotel by the 22nd Special Air Service, is definitely going to cause raised eyebrows in London.
The SBS is meanwhile has been enjoying the hospitality of the Chilean Navy and extensively train on the beaches of Viña, Reñaca and occasionally in Zapallar.
Meanwhile, in Santiago at the Sheraton San Cristóbal pool, a couple of American good ole boy tourists made the grave mistake of trying to pinch the rears of a couple of female SRR operatives that were taking some sun. Both idiots are currently recovering at the Clinica Las Condes with multiple fractures.
To the south, the 16 Air Assault Pathfinders have been having a great time down in Puerto Varas, and perhaps are getting a bit too familiar with all the beautiful Chilean-German Fräuleins there.
No one knows where the Royal Marines are. They took off a couple of weeks ago for training in Easter Island. Apparently they've gone native...
@ 92 Chicureo
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PMSL :o)
Bloody hell, they still spelling it wrong, after 32 years you would have thought they would have got it right. I mean, they have the C130 for reference of how not to spell it.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile up at RAF Marham, the Groupie has had some what of a munity on his hands. Apparently some of the pilots on 15sqn have heard a rumour that they have to give your F16's back.
He was overheard in the mess saying, “Now come on chaps, stop barricading the bar, you know those kites were only borrowed, now where have you hidden them.
I shall turn my back and count to one hundred, I expect to see them back on the flight line.
1 minute and 40 seconds later.
This really is a poor show chaps, any more of this and I shall have to charge them to your mess bills.”
Whereupon, a tremendous cheer was heard throughout the station and the padre breathed a sigh of relief, because he was having problems getting into the vestry of the Station Church.
Gentlemen, my hat is off to your creative spirit, certainly Unsurping Pirate may be guilty in leaking classified information, but most members of CFK's administration do not know to read anyway...
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Carful plans may however get buggered. The Grand Duchy of Fenwick remains in turmoil, after deposing the Grand Duchess and their parliament is close to declaring war over unfair wine marketing by Argentina. Apparently an ocean going small vessel is rumored to have been dispatched from France over a fortnight past. Dock workers report the entire GDF defense force was on board. MI6 requested NSA spy satellite tracking, the CIA liaison thought it was a joke and failed to forward. A preemptive attack would truly disrupt current invasion plans.
Dear 95
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Based on some of your extended and tedious comments ported it seems to me that you are laughing at those people from the ARA who fought in the war during year 1982. Am I right?
(96) pgerman
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please don't be to rough on our esteemed opponent Chicureo...saying that, I'm a bit perturbed that you Chicureo would so harshly demean your Comrades in Arms...., them brilliant Argentinean Armed Farces Officers that..., in your own words..., so many times have invited you to enjoy a good meal at their superb “Casinos de Oficiales”... (The bill for them meals..., of course..., on me, Mr. pgerman's parents and so many other estúpidos civiles...)
@87
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Considering that two ten-year-olds in an inflatable canoe armed with Red Ryder BB rifles would out-gun and out-float the entire Argentine Navy in its current condition, I'm not so sure what the fuzzing should even be about.
The only threat that the Argentine Navy could possibly pose to the FI would be that the constant rusting and oil leaks could mess up the fisheries...
96 pgerman
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Based on some of your extended and tedious comments ported it seems to me that you are laughing at those people from the ARA who fought in the war during year 1982. Am I right?”
pgerman,
I do read your posts with an open mind, however I see nothing in Chicureos most recent posts that could be interpreted as “laughing at those people” from the ARA who fought in 1982.
I expected better of you.
Ridiculing your current armed forces chronic underfunding and lack of equipment, in spite of your government's rhetoric to the contrary, is certainly fair game.
Funny.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks guys.
:-))))
Well those 25.2 billion pesos are well spent then.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They can't keep submarines submerged or ships afloat or planes flying but they serve great meals.
And who says the Argentine armed forces aren't good for something.
Make food not war.
@101
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the kitchen stoves on those rust-buckets still work?
#96 pgerman
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I am not being disrespectful of ARA conscripted and enlisted soldiers, airmen, nor their sailors. I have Argentine friends who served in the ARA Navy and as THINK mentions, enjoyed their most generous as well as sincere hospitality.
The leadership however of Argentina, especially your former Presidents Jorge Videla and Leopoldo Galtieri deserve special disgust. As well as the many flag officers of your navy who were cowards. By the way, I have nothing but also disgust for my former commanding admiral of the Chilean Navy, Admiral José Toribio Merino, who wanted war no matter what the collateral cost. The only person that was able to stop the mad Chivias swigging maniac was John Paul II.
I also hold your government's culture to encourage wide scale corruption, especially regarding the military budget. Your foreign built ships are purchased at inflated costs, with generous kickbacks to the ruling administration. That especially includes re-building and and modernization. Outrageous examples are your former aircraft carrier, the TAM tank, your icebreaker, and let's not forget that there were published articles our your military selling supplies in order to keep operating.
You really think if they convince the Israelis to lend credit and custom rebuild this Kfir fighters, there won't be a ton of dollars under the table for CFK?
You want examples of authentic Argentinian heroisim?
Blohm + Voss engineers have warned repeatedly that your only operating submarine is not certifiable for submerging underwater. Every time your sailors partake in crawling into a hatch for leaving port, they are being courageous.
#97 Think
Thank you for contributing in part to my ARA hosting, it was well enjoyed.
#98 Z-ville
That's why a surprise attack by the Grand Duchy of Fenwick could be a threat. They don't have BB guns, they seem to be armed with something as described in a report by MI6 as “hand held bow projected armor piercing projectiles”
@103
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(103) Chicureo
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My “involutary” pleasure...
I'm positive though that many a stupid Shilean civilian has also contributed in part to the hosting by the Shilean Armed Farces of many honourable Argentinean visiting officers....
#100 ILSEN
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glad you enjoyed it.
#101 Anglotino
That's correct. They've created a ”shadow version of what was once a formidable military power. Warships registered as active no longer have working propulsion systems. Old ammunition and non operable missiles, aircraft no longer airworthy....
...yet, they really know how to polish the brass and spread the crisp white tablecloths for visiting delegations.
@103
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure that somewhere in Bremerhaven there is a skilled competent marine welder who cries every time he reads about what the Argentines did to that sub.
I looked up what they have spent so far on that sub and the ice breaker. At least no one can accuse them of going cheap with the lowest bidder...
With Soy under $350 they can't afford jet fuel or diesel much less any upgrades.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
#105
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Think, several times, especially in Santiago. In Valpariaso, the naval entertaining was up to international standards, but only el Club de la Unión in Santiago was of the level that matched our Argentine colleagues high standards. And in Chile's case, our copper revenue set aside paid for the fare, which belongs to the Chilean people...I know, but it was not stolen...technically. And yes, thanks to Allende for the copper...
#107 Z-ville
It took the navy nearly 7 years to cut the San Juan in half. Refit with new innards and somehow re weld the high pressure hull together again. (They eventually plan to do the same procedure again in the future, but insert a nuclear reactor propulsion system inside.). CINAR's work was harshly criticized by the B+V inspectors, declaring it unsafe for submerging.
The ARA Santa Cruz has been in “terminal maintenance” for the past 3 years.
# 108 YK
That's why the sub will run on eco-diesel made from corn. The new/very old modified Kfirs also....
@103
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let me clarify that I have just asked you because I have read some comments that seems to be mockery about argentine sailors.
I won't defend the stupid cow, and her gang, that is ruling my country. She has little time...very little time....tic tac..tic tac.... And the truth speaks by itself.
But, after reading some comments in this site I found myself thinking how many of you have ever been in a submarine trying to sink (or at least trying to attack) a RN ship. How many of you?
How many of you have ever tried to attack a RN ship piloting a A4? No matter the SA defense !!!!
I can extend the same reasoning to some felow countrymen..how many of us have ever tried to change the course of a ship to avoid the impact of a Exocet missile? How many of have ever tried to attack an airfield fully defended?
Please, at least try to show a little of respect !!!!
No, but I've been aboard a Type 23 frigate while test firing a million plus dollar harpoon missile. Our navy has to do that and a few other things as our eastern neighbor has difficulty in honoring their international treaties as well as suffering from kleptomania.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 03:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I sincerely would have a lot more sympathy for the ARA crewmen if they had not been a part of a Japanese style sneak attack without declaring war first.
@106 Chicureo,
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0l like the polished brass & the crisp white tablecloths,
Much better than them fooling around with bombs & live ammunition.
@112 : The Prefectura also make a far better job of directing traffic and policing than either the Policia Federal or the Metropolitana .
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0What we all seem to be missing here is, submerging the sub is not the problem.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Surfacing it again. Now, that something totally different.
#112 Isolde
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have a point...
@110
Sep 25th, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't get your knickers in a twist, tell me again who invaded the FALKLANDS, you should have retreated as soon as you heard that a British Task Force was being mobilised. Th Belgrano deserved to be hit it was a threat to the Task force.
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