MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Spain constitutional court freezes Catalonia referendum, but plans continue
Spain's Constitutional Court has suspended an independence referendum called by Catalonia for November, although political forces in the wealthy north-east region forged ahead with a political campaign ahead of their planned vote. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“....Minister Mariano Rajoy said on Monday that no one group of Spaniards could take decisions on sovereignty that affected the whole country”
Sep 30th, 2014 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes but they don't want to be Spaniards. They want to be Catalonians only.
Therefore they really aren't one group of Spaniards are they.
Tell you what - refuse to recognise the Constitutional Court's jurisdiction in this matter - easy :-)
Sep 30th, 2014 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go Catalans!
Sep 30th, 2014 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Never ceases to amaze me that people like Paul were totally supportive of a referendum in Scotland but refuse to recognise one in Falkland Islands and refuses to support one in Catalonia.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seems support is predicated on what annoys the English. Seems so far that they are the ones that keep winning though.
It appears that Rajoy may be correct, but if the court takes years then it is a denial of fundamental justice, “Justice delayed is justice denied”.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mas could make an appeal on UN Charter provision of self determination, but the UN could be stymied by “none interference in a countries internal affairs” provision.
Spanish Constitution of 1978
Section 2 The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation, the common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards; it recognizes and guarantees the right to self-government of the nationalities and regions of which it is composed and the solidarity among them all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Constitution_of_1978
So that section has an inherent contradiction.
4 paulcedron
You've lost me if Scotland and Catalonia wanted to exercise the same right, why would you differentiate. If both formed their their original alliance as an expression of “free will”, then surely they can dissolve that union in a like manner.
Section 2 may well be in conflict with the “Preamble”
“Protect all Spaniards and all the peoples of Spain in the exercise of human rights, their cultures and traditions, languages and institutions.”
i would suggest the catalans to choose a leader who at least know how to write properly “transición” and cataluña”.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it seems this boludo did not go to school.
THIS IS WHAT A DEMOCRATIC NATION IS ALL ABOUT!!! where a minority WILL NEVER impose their will on the majority.Where a CLEAR constitution CONTROLS the rules.Where THE CONSTITUTIONAL COURT has the power to maintain THE UNITY OF A GREAT NATION THAT WILL NEVER BE DIVIDED BY THE ENEMIES WITHIN OR WITHOUT. A nation that is ready to pay any PRICE, MEET ANY HARDSHIP, AND BEAR ANY BURDEN to maintain its unity from its enemies.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is astonishing the two faced attitudes @7 & 8.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Catalonia supports the Scottish Nationalist movement, you were both supportive of the Scottish referendum, yet deny your Spanish counterparts the same basic right?
When you change your principles in a matter of weeks, you have no principles.
9
Sep 30th, 2014 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Catalonia supports the Scottish Nationalist movement, you were both supportive of the Scottish referendum, yet deny your Spanish counterparts the same basic right?”
you are not too bright, are you?
you don't know where the difference is, do you?
in the CONSTITUTION, you naboletti.
I'm considerably brighter than you. I know that when you deny people democracy and their civil liberties and their human rights, you are asking for trouble.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It must be so difficult for you comprehend that the UK can offer up referendums and polls to our UK and overseas territories, yet they democratically choose to remain together.
Why is Spain so scared to do the same? Hispanic unity is not as strong as the anglosphere?
You have not read my posts on SCOTLAND.HAVE YOU? YOU SILLY BOY!!
Sep 30th, 2014 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THAT MAKES YOU EITHER.TICK BELOW.
A) STUPID B) IGNORANT C) ILLITERATE D) A/B/C/
@10
Sep 30th, 2014 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Constitutions can be amended and changed.
Why to you always resort to childish name calling ?
*11 People who live in glass houses,should not throw stones at another.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 013 Of course constitutions can be ammended and changed but what is not
acceptable is that these Catalan nationalists break the rules and try to become
independent illegally......
Are they trying to break the rules or is it a referendum of the people of Catalonia to find out how many would like to be independent ?
Sep 30th, 2014 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How does Britworker's comment result in your “People who live in glass houses,should not throw stones at another.”
15. A referendum can only be agreed in Congress with an overall majority....
Sep 30th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A regional government cannot hold a referendum as it would be illegal....
There are many countries who are living under the constant attack of nationalist
regional governments and these countries should not use this against other
countries.Britwork is constantly using his anti Spanish feelings by using the
Catalan issue against Spain not realising that his country is in the same mess.Scotland/Northern Ireland/walse / catalonia/Basque/The Italian separists/The Flemish..these people are all living in glass houses.........
Refusing the right to a vote will simply fuel greater demands for one. Had London attempted to prevent a Scottish referendum when the winner of the Scottish election had a specific mandate for one then the Scots would have simply held one anyway and voted Yes. Doing it in a civilised manner allowed everyone to vote more pragmatically. Instead of preventing the Catalans from expressing their democratic wishes Rajoy should be trying to make a strong case for them staying.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clearly and legally, the Catalonian referendum will only be legitimate if Spain consents (as the UK gov did regarding Scotland) or if the population of Catalonia's basic human rights are being impinged (as per Kosovo).
Sep 30th, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 aussiesunshinee
Sep 30th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“same mess.Scotland/Northern Ireland/walse”
The true facts are :-
1. Scotland - has voted to remain part of the UK.
2. Wales - only 3% want independence
3. N. Ireland - only 7.7% want independence.
Here is a tip for Catalonia. By definition, you are a people. You have your own language, your own customs, your own rights. You may be one of the last Spanish imperial colonies. How does a spanish constitutional court have any authority over you? What is the spanish constitution to you? Reject it. Beware. Spain believes in force. You need a military. For equipment you can seize anything on Catalan territory. You may need 'foreign' military leadership. Pick some countries that hate spain. Plenty about.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Something about one part of a nation attempting to leave the whole reminds me of Bruce Catton.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Be sure you know what you might get into before you pick up that rifle.
@16 aussiesunshinee
Sep 30th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another point, the referendum has been suspended but not yet declared as illegal !
The Catalans will not be denied. Spain is not a proper nation and Independence is the natural right of the Catalans.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Keep your nerve brave Catalans and defy the Bastard Court of Rajoy.
FREEDOM IS AT HAND. Vote FOE (---- --- Espania)
@ 16 spanisharseholee
Sep 30th, 2014 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, are you an Aussie, an argie or a Spaniard?
But it really doesn't matter, you are NOT from Catalonia, that much is clear.
Spain is only concerned because the Milsch Cow has broken her lead and is wondering off into a new pasture, one with lush grass that her own manure has made for her.
Contrast that with the shit that Madrid turns out: Rajoy the crook and Gollum2 the bloated isiot without a brain.
WTF does ANYONE want to be Spanish, it's like being an argie FFS!
The Malvinistas on here want it both ways. They don't seem to understand or comprehend that the Scots referendum would also have been illegal had it not been for Westminster approval. The fact that the Spanish government seem to be scared of the result says everything about the Spanish, their country is a incredibly fragile due to unemployment and bail outs and a very weak economy.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Denying them a choice is more likely to harden the views of the Catatalonian people.
I believe that we should be stoking this hornets nest, as it will concentrate the Spanish government on Catalonia and not Gibraltar.
If its against the Constitution then do what Argentina regularly does: change the constitution to suit the yourself.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its very hard for some people to understand the unwritten constitutional la w in the UK... but that depth of history and tradition is why that very same constitution is so strong: you cant just up sticks and change it on a whim.
Meanwhile.... in fantasy La-La-Land the Argentine Malvos seem to be a tad confused over what they support and when.. its rather amusing. :-)
“”“A regional government cannot hold a referendum as it would be illegal....”“”
It may be illegal, however, that does not mean that you cant hold...after all, you still claim that the Falklands Islanders referendum was illegal..and yet they still held it and it still did, and continues to do, massive, irrevocable harm to Argentinas claims.
nice that ;-)
again, those who compare the case of cataluña with scotland don´t have the slightest clue.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they are two different problems.
nobody expects that the usual imbeciles of this 4th class site can understand it, but at least they should keep it shut.
as for mas, it is funny that he thinks his desires are more important than their constitution.
it is the perfect example of an undemocratic politician and should be jailed the sooner the better.
the c*nt should learn a bit from alex salmond, a true patriot and perhaps a modern hero.
@27
Sep 30th, 2014 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wow pablo, nice intelligent rant, just a good mixture of name calling and absolute nonsense.
@27
Sep 30th, 2014 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The independence movement in Scotland has always stood at 30%. Alex Salmond achieved a 45% result of 80% of the electorate who actually voted.
If you factor in the 20% of the electorate that did not vote, the referendum result for the yes camp is 30%, exactly the same figure it has always been.
So Alex Salmond actually achieved NOTHING in real terms. If that makes him a hero in your book it says a great deal about you.
Spain is now reaping what it has sewn,
Sep 30th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what goes around will come around,
and Catalonia will do what Catalonia wants to do,
and all these stupid two faced argie or other trolls don't like it,
chuckle.
30 boludo
Sep 30th, 2014 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you don't read spanish, do you?
bet you are another ignorant monoglot.
well, learn spanish and read the news “de primera mano”.
http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2014/09/30/catalunya/1412082619_408923.html
http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2014/09/30/catalunya/1412082619_408923.html
Don't matter what you read , twit twat,
Sep 30th, 2014 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0only the Catalonians can decide there future,
you your self supported the break up of the UK and this failed,
well lets see if Spain breaks up.
the people will decide not trolls like you.
31 paulcedron
Sep 30th, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0pablo more infantile name calling
did you actually read
http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2014/09/29/catalunya/1411979078_056196.html
he insults because he is lonely,
Sep 30th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its his way of calling for help,
he knows nothing but swear words passed down to him by the CFK swear committee...lol
The Catalans should keep calm, carry on....... and arm themselves
Sep 30th, 2014 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0leiard
Sep 30th, 2014 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes i did.
and you?
mas is the closest thing to kirchner in wanting to violate their constitution in favor of his own power.
Think abut it this way Spain needs Catalunya more than Catalunya needs Spain. Spain is weaker than it has ever being. Spain will be forced to capitulate power and autonomy to Catalunya. Mas ruling party needs to press harder.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If push comes to shove, Mas will call an election.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The result will be worse for Madrid. Hard liners who want independence will dominate and won't be as moderat as Mas.
Madrid thinks it can contain and solve the problem by banning it. Naive posters like Paul and sunshine think that simply appealing to constitutionalism will make all thoughts of independence evaporate. It won't.
Spain has an issue with a part of it that is agitating for change. Agitating potentially for independence. How will Madrid's current actions make that disappear?
Madrid is making it worse. They are refusing point blank to recognise there is an issue. The referendum is a symptom not the cause.
Mark my words, Catalonians will vote within the next 6 months. And it will prompt a crisis. Whether in a referendum or election, the problem will only grow worse until Madrid starts to deal with it.
There are other parts of Spain who wish more autonomy. Including its islands.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To ignore and deny is poor diplomacy.
They will get no sympathy from us...
Oct 01st, 2014 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mas, undemocratic?
Oct 01st, 2014 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, just the opposite - he is very clearly exercising Democracy.
If he can graciously accept a “No” for Independence, and recognise a majority for what it is - then he will be one up on Salmond.
*38 RECOGNISE THE ABORINAL PEOPLE IN THE AUSTRALIAN CONSTITUTION,,( YES FOLKS)!! tHE AUSTRALIAN CONSTITUTION DOES NOT RECOGNISE THE ABORIGINAL PEOPLES) HISTORY BOOKS TEACH THE ARRIVAL OF CAPTAIN COOK BUT ignores THE HISTORY OF THESE GREAT PEOPLE..SHAME!! SHAME!! SHAME!!
Oct 01st, 2014 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Will those who came with the battle star galacticca be included...lol
Oct 01st, 2014 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0No sunshine the Australian Constitution does not recognise the Aboriginals. That's why we're discussion changes. Just like the Spanish Constitution doesn't recognise Catalonia's right to self determination.
Oct 01st, 2014 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Both constitutions seem to be lacking. And yet it is Spain that is suffering a constitutional crisis. Not Australia.
But thanks for proving you aren't an Aussie. You've obviously never studied history in any school in Australia.
But you still envy my country. I don't envy yours.
Have the aborigines asked for independence from Australia?
Oct 01st, 2014 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No of course not!
They are part of a successful and powerful nation.
Spain is neither successful nor powerful and accordingly it has a problem.
The Catalons have already been lost as have the Basques.
Time for the mapmakers to redraw the map of Europe.
The EU is required to uphold freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Rajoys Bastard Court should tread very carefully.
*45 hey nitwit!! hey can the Aboriginal people ask for independence IF THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT RECOGNISE THEM??!!!!!?? DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL??!! OR WERE YOU BORN STUPID??
Oct 01st, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*44 FINALLY YOU ADMIT IT!! PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES........I do not not envy Australia I ADMIRE it.It is a GREAT country with GREAT people and PONTETIAL....
AND DON´T CARRY ON WITH THAT BULLSHIT THAT I AM NOT AN AUSSIE
CAUSE YOU SOUND VERY REPETITIVE AND FULL OF CRAP. you very well that aboriginal history is not studied in any history book in Australia UNLESS it has changed lately.....AND DO GET THAT CONSTITUTION CHANGED TO INCLUDE THE ABORIGINAL PEOPLE IN IT...NOW!!!!!
www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/education/education-for-non-aboriginal-students.
@46 aussiesunshinee
Oct 01st, 2014 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sussi sussi, shouting again, you must learnt to restrain yourself because in your own words “YOU SOUND VERY REPETITIVE AND FULL OF CRAP”
*47 take a hike stupid!!! TAKE A HIKE STUPID!! LOL LOL LOL LOL
Oct 01st, 2014 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47
Oct 01st, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear - where has the sunshine gone!
Sunshine.
Oct 01st, 2014 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We both know you aren't an Aussie and you don't live here.
And yes it is a great country with great people and potential. That is why you have your username.
So thanks for the compliment.
Aboriginals have not asked for independence. Catalonians have.
And if Aboriginal history is so easy to find then it would be pretty senseless if it wasn't in the history books. More crap as per usual from you.
I wasn't born stupid but I was born an Aussie.
You are the opposite.... on both counts.
I'm looking forward to the next few months with you ranting and raving about Australia all while I chuckle as Spain tears itself apart.
Please use more caps because it really makes your eyes pop.
@48 sounds very convincing as a true Aussie patriot - not!
Oct 01st, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wisely, Oz won't let him stay, so now he vilifies them.
Chuckle
Independence for a distinct and culturally different group and a what's written in a Country's constitution are separate issues.
Oct 01st, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mark my words the CATALANS will have their freedom from abusive and aggressive Spanish fools like you. It's a matter of time.
*50 get those aboriginals in the constitution....bloody disgrace that this hasn´t been done yet in 2014.
Oct 01st, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uszdyMacC2c
Aussie... What would you like the constitution to say about the aboriginals?
Oct 01st, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can they not vote, hold office, own property? Whats the problem?
Perhaps its time not to reply to aussie,
Oct 01st, 2014 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its a complete waste of energy.
This referendum without accord from the capital, this localized democratic vote idea seems to be going down quite well in here.
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 01:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps in time the same democracy could be applied, in the same way to one particular region of the country known as N.Ireland.
Yes, sounds good, the western/south-western side of the lough could hold a Catalonia style referendum and disconnect from the east/north east side.
That would leave, on one side at least, a 3 county country with its infrastructure, resources, services, and economy cut in half.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Northern_Ireland#mediaviewer/File:Most_common_nationality_2011.png
45 englander
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Have the aborigines asked for independence from Australia?
No of course not!”
most of them were killed by the...englanders, you ignorant nabo.
“Deny the British empire's crimes? No, we ignore them
New evidence of British colonial atrocities has not changed our national ability to disregard it”
The niño and his amateur whataboutery...
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 03:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL !!
The Catalans and Spain, are a completely seperate issue from that of Scotland and the UK. You're a bit off-topic, nino.
Vent your frustrations about your crappy future on your own heritage.
Vestige
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Catalonia is a nation in Spain just like Northern Ireland is a nation in the UK. No one is asking to hold a referendum in just part of Catalonia. They are asking to hold a referendum within a international and nationally recognised government area.
If you can't work out the difference between your idea and Catalonia's reality then again that is your inadequacies showing.
Paul
We don't deny what we did to the Aborigines. They weren't killed by anyone other than the forebears of today's Australia. We don't blame England nor Britain for it. Unlike Argentina who blames Spain for its colonial atrocities.
Argentina has not been any better in treating its native inhabitants after more than 500 years. You are no more enlightened that we are. At least we are returning stolen land unlike Argentina where it is still be stolen.
man!! Not only do you discriminate Aboriginals in the constitution but now YOU WANT TO PUT MUSLIM WOMEN WHO VISIT PARLIAMENT WITH BURKAS...BEHIND A BULLET PROOF WINDOW!!! MY GOD!! what is next????!!!
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0What is next?
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Australia is an older democracy than any Spanish speaking country in the WORLD!
That's because we always challenge ourselves to change. Are burqas compatible with our society? This is a question that is being discussed.
Sunshine while you use Aussie in your name, you'll never make my country look bad.
*61 who is making Australia look bad?!! I am throwing you REAL FACTS but you are taking it as an insult. Fact 1) Get the aboriginals on the constitution.
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0fact 2) Why did you let the muslim women wearing burkus into Australia when you never were going to respect their way of living?? wouldn´t it have been better to bring in British people from The UK?? just asking.....but putting muslim women behind a bullet proof glass when they visit Parliament!!?? well!! it is mind blowing!!!
@60, 62 etc.
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 03:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0A.S.S.
How many times are you going to repeat yourself?
What's with all the indignation?
You know full well that there is no cause for moral outrage.
Silly boy - nobody is listening to your nonsense.
Its because he's angry at the prospect of Spain breaking up. When The Catalans get their independence, and they will, it's a matter of time, he will be absolutely devastated. Without The Catalans Spains decline will be even more pronounced whilst Australia will continue to rise.
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0FREEDOM FOR THE CATALANS
You cannot talk to argie brainwashing... full stop
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sunshine isn't Argentinean. He's Spanish.
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But wishes he was an Aussie. We obviously didn't let him stay.
Anglotino
Oct 04th, 2014 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0email for you
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!
Oct 04th, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks Troy.
Oct 05th, 2014 - 07:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Great comeback Sunshine. Still not an Aussie though.
Nice to see Mas still proceeding with the referendum. Your move Rajoy.
Spanish fighter jets 'illegally invade' British airspace over Gibraltar – report
Oct 05th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=34734
Spanish fighter jets illegally invade British airspace over Gibraltar
SPANISH fighter jets illegally entered UK airspace to fly “across the bows” of a British airliner in a “reckless and dangerous” stunt over Gibraltar
Spain refuses to let British military jets fly over Spanish airspace on the way to Gibraltar even though they are partners in Nato, yet they think it’s fine to enter British airspace illegally and potentially distract an airliner as it is trying to safely land on the Rock.
“It’s time that the British Government sent the Spanish Ambassador packing back to Madrid
We are fed up with the bullying and intimidation from Spain, and it’s time we showed we are no longer prepared to put up with it
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=34734
British response.
Last night a Foreign Office spokesman said: “We are aware of the incident on September 19. We are reassured that there was no risk to safety caused by the activity of the jets.
“We are continuing to examine the incident to ascertain whether it was within the lawful right of passage.”
Pathetic , pathetic , pathetic..
.
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