MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Dilma (40%) and Neves (34%) to the runoff; mathematically the opposition can win
Brazil's unpredictable election took another twist Sunday, with populist President Dilma Rousseff forced into a runoff race as expected, but against a center-right challenger who only surged in the final week of the campaign. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesWow what bad reporting has been done around the world about Marina and her threat to the PT.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually this situation was creating by Dilma. They took their eyes off Neves and solely concentrated on Silva.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0With equal airtime now available, Dilma won't be able to use the negativity that was successful against Silva.
Silva's 21% vote won't be transferring to Dilma, not after that negativity. So now is the time for Neves to harness those people.
Crossing fingers Silva's support changes to Neves. Man that northeast area is dominated by bolsa familia bribed PT voters though, might be tough....
Oct 06th, 2014 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good graphics here http://politica.estadao.com.br/eleicoes/2014/apuracao/presidente/
I hope Neves wins, it would have a very healthy influence on Argentina
Oct 06th, 2014 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil spends 550 million euros per month with “Bolsa Família”.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 03:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0As the European Union spend on unemployment insurance per month?
10 billion euros? 20 billion euros? how much?
I can assume that there is a massive bribed voters!
#4 Neves could bring lots of influence, Venezuela, Cuba etc too, and maybe they can chuck rabid PT supporters like Brazzo in the loony bin.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0#4 “Neves...would have a very healthy influence on Argentina”
Oct 06th, 2014 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Keep dreaming CabezaDura. You are doomed to keep wishing your outdated dreams while Latin America is rapidly changing and electors are less and less fooled by “pro-business” candidates promising to make the rich richer so “something” will trickle down to the destitute.
No sir. Electors now elect THEIR own candidates, so that the wealth is better shared by right--not by charity.
Brazil is in recession.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 06:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Venezuela is about to default.
Argentina has defaulted AND is in recession.
How's that RIGHT to share wealth working out?
Wealth can be increased and shared. So keep sharing without creating and see how far it gets you.
@7:
Oct 06th, 2014 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does X owe Y money whenever X is richer than Y? The “right” in question has never been properly explained. Besides, the richest Brazilians are state officials and their crony businessmen, which makes intelligent and honest people wonder why leftists keep vilifying the middle class.
Enrique Massot (#7)
Oct 06th, 2014 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0#4 “Neves...would have a very healthy influence on Argentina”
Yes, he would, but he would do more for Brasil, where he is standing.
'No sir. Electors now elect THEIR own candidates,...'
But not in Hong Kong's China, apparently - the selected ones are chosen for them so the 'people' can feel like they have had some input.
Marxism Today is quiet on the issue.
And most political parties put forward their people - not the 'people'.
And the Balsa IS a charity
I'm surprised that submitted such a poorly thought out post. Surely you realised how silly you sound.
7. I dont think Latam is changing. Latam was always populist and nationalist, its just the political elite that is changing.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Remember Carlos Menem in 1989 when he campaigned with a peronist platform and then when he came to power he followed a pro market ideas and passed reforms that warn't seen in decades??
Ohh no you were hiding under the bed in Canada then...
It always seems like a rat fight in Latam, with the biggest rat winning.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0So same old, same old.
Aecio Neves wins and Cuba communist government disappears! WOW!!
Oct 06th, 2014 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#13 At least the cosy deal between Cuban and Brazilian Government for doctors in Brazil might disappear, that might be a start. Nothing so much against the Cuban doctors just the exploitation of them politically.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some here become apoplectic and begin waving the Marxist and Communist scarecrow at the mere idea of sharing wealth.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That extreme selfishness has been behind much suffering, rebellion and repression throughout Latin America's history. Extreme poverty was mirrored by the obscene wealth of a few, and those who spoke out were quickly put down.
I've seen by myself how a wealthy landowner decided who his hired hands were going to vote. Those people fretted at the idea of better educated hands, and saw it as a dangerous thing to be avoided.
However, the idea of allowing the poor to be better off is not only a Marxist concept. Capitalism itself sought to moderate its excesses and admitted the idea of redistributing--some--profits. As it evolved and adapted, capitalism also admitted the benefits of having better educated workers.
The success of governments such as that of Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina and Brasil is their self-determination and their will to improve the lot of the most impoverished.
Without the armed forces and their dear coup d'etats, the Latin American all-powerful are now in distress. The world as they knew it is crumbling. Their lackeys are fuming. The poor go to the polls and cast their ballot with a smile.
'However, the idea of allowing the poor to be better off is not only a Marxist concept....' (Enrique #15)
Oct 06th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You succeed in conspicuous misunderstanding.
You posit 'Education is a dangerous thing, to be avoided'!
Quite the contrary, education is the key to personal development.
To maintain a population in an under-educated state is the strategy of the Taliban of Afghanistan.
Brasil offers preferential places in higher education through their federal unis. for those that seriously seek self-development. My caseiro (caretaker-handyman), Eris, has studied (probably has finished his course now) to become a radiographer - from a background of zero secondary education. OK, it is tough, tough, tough.
How will he feel to find himself having half his income taxed away from him to subsidise a population of those become too lazy to achieve an education and a personal salary?
No, it is in P.T.'s interest - the interest of permanent power - to keep the poor minimally educated and permanently in receipt of the Bolsa. So, so different from attitudes in China and South Korea. OECD confirms this opinion.
'The success of governments such as that of Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina and Brasil is their self-determination and their will to improve the lot of the most impoverished.'
If only this were *in any way* true. The reality is quite to the contrary.
Enrique, we view the same scene through different eyes. I have no 'rose coloured spectacles' and have the perspective of a lifetime of experience from across the world.
Yes, 'the poor go to the polls with a smile', but it is the smile of the gulled.
Very well said Mr Geoff Ward!
Oct 06th, 2014 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@5 Brazzo
Oct 06th, 2014 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know how much money the EU spends on unemplyment either, but I can assure you it is not a lifetime gift....after a few months the government will come and take it away...no early retirement for lazy buggers who have never worked, or have no intention of ever joining the work force again....
I don't know if you work or whether you are one of the lazy buggers...but one thing is sure, for every lazy bugger out there, someone else has to work twice as hard. And that I suppose, to you, is fair ??
@7 Enrique
You show a very limited understanding of reality and economics.....you cannot multiply wealth by dividing.......only by adding....or is that too complicated for you to understand ? probably is...
I love the headline: “Mathematically the opposition can win.” Lots of wishful thinking here.
Oct 06th, 2014 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#18
Bravo Mr. Bauer! You cannot multiply wealth by dividing! Who would have thought it? Please, go take a look at some of the most harmoniously developed societies (not the U.S.). Not letting people behind creates prosperity and reduces police wages.
And then, the pearl of the day by none other than Mr. Bauer: ”No early retirement for lazy buggers (who) have no intention of joining the work force again.” What an ignorant comment, made up to justify inequality. I won't argue with you on this one. You're two centuries behind.
Enrique do you agree though that you have to grow the pie though encouraging people to be productive, to encourage business because this creates jobs. Now to me to encourage productivity you need to create over time competiveness, and government needs to lay the platform, the reality is Brazil must compete in a global world. Don't you think it's unsustainable to employ more and more people in the public service and give more benefits to the poor because the weight on the other tax payers becomes to great to sustain this? Essentially this is where Brazil is at now with negative growth and now building up government spending to pay for it all. Yes I want to see more equality in society but you need to teach people to fish rather than just giving them one. This is where I feel that Brazil is at with the PT party. The way they solve their problems is with smoke and mirrors and more populist policies that are trying to secure their next mandate. They aren't thinking about a sustainable prosperous Brazil they are fleecing things and thinking for only themselves.
Oct 07th, 2014 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0@15:
Oct 07th, 2014 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Some here become apoplectic and begin waving the Marxist and Communist scarecrow at the mere idea of sharing wealth.” This is intellectual dishonesty. I do not repudiate the idea of sharing my wealth. In fact, I do so whenever I can. What I do repudiate is the idea of having a very high percentage of my earnings confiscated by arrogant and parasitic state officials, who embezzle it while claiming to represent the poor and the needy. Leftists do not have the monopoly of virtue.
@19 Enrique
Oct 07th, 2014 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Bravo Mr. Bauer! You cannot multiply wealth by dividing! Who would have thought it? ”
Well, at least you probably aren't as stupid as you sound. For how long do you think that a policy which incessantly increases the number of dependents on “Bolsas”, and subsequently reduces the number of those that are productive and paying taxes , can last ??
Your comment regarding my “No early retirement for lazy buggers who have no intention of joining the work force again” proves you are the ignorant one here. By the look of it you aren't too familiar with how the Bolsa Familia works in this country, o'wise you wouldn't spout such crap. I pay a friggin' fortune in income tax, just to see it (using ”ljordao's” words) “embezzled” by a bunch of dirty crooks.....IF, I repeat IF, the Bolsa Familia worked as it was meant to, its recipients would have TWO years to pull their act together, and find a job.....and I do NOT disagree with that....BUT, as it is, the government has no interest in enforcing this rule, as it would make them lose votes....that, is exactly where the problem lies.....You don't have to argue with me on this one, unless of course you think it's UNfair that the programme be run in accordance with the established rules.
If you live in Brazil, I'd say you are part of the so-called “esquerda caviar”.....as fake as a US$ 3 bill.
#20 Tik Tok
Oct 11th, 2014 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0The market does not automatically bring social inclusiveness. An entity that is not driven by profit is needed to moderate the excesses of the capital and re-distribute wealth.
Wealth transfers inject resources towards education, health care and minimum standards of living for those who need it most. More people are then incorporated to the economy, consume and pay taxes, driving up the whole country's economy.
Argentina, for example, has succeeded in reducing the number of undeclared workers, adding resources for the state and more protection for employees.
The “let the rich get richer so some of their wealth will trickle down to the poor” approach is disingenuous; it hasn't worked and will never do. Human nature is such that individuals will accumulate enormous amounts of wealth and will sincerely feel they still need more.
And don't come telling me poor people are lazy--I have seen extremely poor rural workers in northeast Argentina working with hoe or machete under a blazing sun, by 40 degrees Celsius, in a way most urban dwellers will not imagine.
Officials steal money? Probably! Do you throw the baby with the water? No! Corruption is not the monopoly of any particular system. It just thrives in poorly-regulated environments. Instead, increase accountability mechanisms to reduce opportunities and increase consequences for thieves and corrupts.
Enrique
Oct 11th, 2014 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Running an economy does require balance, a society needs to address the problems of the poorest, and I believe that the Neves party will maintain that current support. However you can't go so far with your policies that it goes skew whiff, currently it is unsustainable with policies from PT. I would not be happy either if Neves casts aside the poor.
Argentina like Brazil is now suffering (and pretending too that unemployment is fine) because they have enacted policy that simply can't last, they got away with it when the world had a period of good times but they can't now. If they were decent politicians they would have installed policies to improve the structure of the economy to run more efficiently and cope better when times are tougher. But they haven't, a well functioning economy on good principles is secondary to lining their own pockets and maintaining power through any means.
Enrique you crap on about the wealthy, how much money has been taken or stitched up through jobs for mates in the PT and corruption, how many ministries exist now and increased public sector workers? These people are generally wealthy and unproductive, and this has essentially robbied the poor of potential money to be spent to improve their situation. I never said poor were lazy, they get an easy choice to have free money with the bolsa, policy should encourage goals like getting work. Poor are unfortunately uneducated in general and that allows the majority to be manipulated by the current government who portray they have done the poor a favour, the PT like them the poor in this spot because they can throw them a bone now and then and get their vote.
I believe those two arseholes in the photo will remain in power.
Oct 12th, 2014 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lula? I'd pay good money for the chance to head-but the fkuk.
@25
Oct 12th, 2014 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0there is a chance that might happen....but hope not.
Now if you want to head-butt the toad, you're more than welcome, but I recommend you wear a helmet .....he's only got bone between his flappy ears.
#24
Oct 13th, 2014 - 04:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don't get what social justice is all about, do you?
That is what Dilma has been doing for the last several years, and that is why she will get re-elected. In the past, the oligarchy had the help of the military to dislodge the pinkos. That is passe now, so the progressive governments have finally a chance to effectively show a difference.
Those who like to change a bit so that everything remains the same are in trouble.
I know perfectly where socialism/populism will get you in the long run in a global world. Nowhere. You will send the poor that you are trying to raise up back to being poor. You have to encourage teaching a person to fish rather than giving them a fish. That means you have to encourage a certain level of capitalism.
Oct 13th, 2014 - 06:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dilma has no bloody clue what she is doing evidenced by her performance over the last few years. She has driven the economy into the ground and helped inflation get out of hand.
Neves has said that he will maintain welfare as it is anyway. But he'll also attract investment, improve trade, attack needing 57 ministries with all their cronies etc and you know what that will actually create jobs over the longer term....
@27
Oct 13th, 2014 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's your bloody problem ?? all you do is talk about social justice, as if the only way it can be attained is by 'giving' people money...there are other ways, such as, teach them a profession, give them a job and get them off the 'eternal' dole.....As I've said before, I pay my taxes, and I don't mind that part of them go to help those in need....BUT, those that are being helped, need to realize it's not a life-long gift, it's supposed to help them get back on their 'own' two feet. Ok, whether what Dilma is doing - throwing money at the poor, without any counter-obligation on their part - will be sustainable or not, is something to be seen in the future, but I very much doubt it. The day there are more people living on handouts than those contributing to the system, that'll be the day. I guess we'll just have to wait to see who's right...
Just one last thing : we all know for fact that the PT - Dilma and Lula - always spread rumours that their political adversaries will terminate the “Bolsa Familia”....We also know, for a fact that that is one BIG lie...now why do YOU think that the PT acts this way ?? ...in case you can't remember, I'll tell you....it's the politics of 'fear', in order to guarantee the votes of those who receive the “Bolsa”....and you come on here, trying to convince everyone that the Bolsa Familia is not used as a political tool by the PT....don't make me laugh.
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