MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina celebrates G20 summit support on sovereign debt restructuring
The official communiqué of the G20 summit released at the end of the bloc’s meeting in Brisbane, Australia, included a paragraph on sovereign debt restructuring process, as requested by Argentina. Economy Minister Axel Kicillof and Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman celebrated it and described it as ‘historic’. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI see.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody wants to see any more fuck ups like Argentina, therefore Argentina hasn't fucked up.
has Argentina forgotten something?
Nov 18th, 2014 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing about the Falkland Islands in the official communiqué.
Obviously that must mean they now respect the rights of the people of the Falkland Islands to determine their own future.
Gollum back in the headlines!
Nov 18th, 2014 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0No wonder he's wetting his knickers, it's been that long I thought he was dead.
Oh well, perhaps soon.
What a complete waste of time and effort. The easiest way to stop thievery on investment bonds is to blackball TDC from issuing them: job done.
@1 Sounds like they are so fed up with Argentine whinging and whining, they want to make sure it won't happen again. What this is saying is that because of the mess Argentina has created with the bond issue, the G20 (-Agentina) realised they need to protect certain countries that are naive in relation to financial matters (or just greedy). I don't see how this helps Argentina though as it is for future issues.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Economy Minister Kicillof said that the Argentine delegation was “extremely pleased that the issue was included in the final document,” for the first time in the history of the G-20.'...'Our boy Kicillof', as Mr Think would say, isn't the brightest is he, celebrating that thanks to the complete incompetence, greed and naivety of the Argentinian Government, the G20 have felt it necessary to included the issue in a G20 meeting and document it. Any other government would be embarrassed to have created such a train wreck of an issue and their economy.
Argentina make it sound like this is something new and that they are ones responsible for this great change.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mexico has a history of setting precedents in the bond market. In 2003, it became the first country to sell bonds in a U.S. public offering that included collective action clauses, paving the way for Brazil and Uruguay to do the same less than two months later, according to Gelpern. Eventually, the entire sovereign debt market followed.
“Timerman added that on Monday he would be traveling to New York to resume talks on the development of a legal framework to regulate restructuring of foreign sovereign debt, a project that was suggested by Argentina ......”
Nov 18th, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Debt is debt, you owe you pay. ” Restructured debt is still debt, the way Hector and co are carrying on they must believe that somehow Argentina will get some sort of 'special deal' and the new arrangements will forgive the debt.
I don't think so!
Hector tried to raise the Falkland's at the G20, but nobody was interested.
The verbiage is meaningless, but at least the picture indicates Kickitoff changed into a shirt that doesn't highlight the wine stains.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0This sovereign debt restructuring issue has been around for a long time. The IMF has been trying to get countries to sign onto a tribunal for debt work outs.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0It failed because no country wanted to give up their rights to restructure on their own terms.
I have no idea why these Rgidiots don't understand this?
These people are really dumb.
It was in the annex.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0So Killichoff and Tinman waisted how much flying a private jet to Australia so they could have 1 paragraph about future debt agreements in a memorandum??
Nov 18th, 2014 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0We could have used that money for much better use.
Oohhhh! G-20 has decided to wake Up! Applauses...
Nov 18th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0While I agree that a country should be able to restructure...even file bankruptcy, but not on their own terms. Like when a person or business files it is overseen by a trustee and this should also be the case.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At any rate......I do not see that “clause” changing the laws of the G20 nations. Regardless what the say at these kumbaya gatherings, the real authority lies in signed treaties and the law of each nation.
#10 I heard three ministers flew in from the same location in three different jets to see asslips at La casa..............wise use of money when one is broke no?
I think the biggest problem RGs have in the real world is the don't understand polispeak or political maneuvers.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They think something is support but they usually aren't understanding what it really means.
It helps they're delusional too.
The G-20 has NO authority. It's an 'informal' forum. Message for argieland: PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY. Or be DESTROYED.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who would miss argieland?
Collective action clauses are pernicious - all they do is encourage the borrower to regard the repayment of his obligations as discretionary. CACs should be abandoned. If a country claims that it cannot pay its debt then it should have either to put up collateral or to assign a specific cash flow source to the repayment of the debt. There is no country that does not have assets and there is no country that does not have the ability to tax. There is therefore no country that can deny that it has the ability to deliver collateral. And all bonds and bank loans to that country should have to be similarly collateralized until the country brings its payments current.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The usual big fanfare over very little actual action. They have been instrumental in creating a situation that they are now claiming glory for demanding that others resolve?
Nov 18th, 2014 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hmmm.... a somewhat pyrrhic victory?
Smoke.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Put it on the auction block and break it down.
A 'fire-sale' ?
Nov 18th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
@10 Klingon
Nov 18th, 2014 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“So Killichoff and Tinman waisted how much flying a private jet to Australia so they could have 1 paragraph about future debt agreements in a memorandum??”
They actually achieved half a sentence.... not a paragraph.....
Here's a legal framework for you. “ we lend you money and you pay back with interest” what is wrong with that?
Nov 18th, 2014 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tinman is in New York now. I hope he gets arrested.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no objection to the communique. It is proposing that future sovereign bonds have this clause.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will effect which investors are willing to buy bonds and what interest rate they will accept but if it is all open and up front, no one can object.
I suspect that after introducing this clause Argentina will try and find a way to issue debt without incorporating it so that it can get lowere rates OR it will struggle to raise any finance.
To say nothing of the fact this relates to sovereign bonds and Argentina have surrendered their sovereignty by issuing their bonds under the law of another jurisdiction.
This does not help Argetnina it just puts future restrictions on the terms it and other risky unstable countries can borrow at. It still leaves CFK and her accomplices with their current financing crises.
nice summary RICO
Nov 18th, 2014 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 Conqueror
Nov 18th, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Who would miss argieland?”
No one amongst those who feel hardly al ease when hearing the words “piracy” and “pirate”.
I think that Gibraltar should be in the G20 not Argentina as their GDP is greater than Argentinas.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0very good point golfie!
Nov 18th, 2014 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0G20 Final Communique
Nov 18th, 2014 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.g20.org/sites/default/files/g20_resources/library/brisbane_g20_leaders_summit_communique.pdf
Where does it mention Argentina's claim?
Turnip at (27)
Nov 18th, 2014 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where...?
Well....
What about trying to read page 5?
the Annex?
Nov 18th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0nice... that they have noted it.... a mere sop.
Argentina beaten by tiny Portugal Bahahahaha. Its the only thing RGs really care about!
Nov 18th, 2014 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From page 5....
Nov 18th, 2014 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0given that Argentina has totally screwed the present system... and 'Given the challenges litigation poses and in order to strengthen the orderliness and predictability of the sovereign debt restructuring process, we welcome the international work on strengthened collective action and pari passu clauses. We call for their inclusion in international sovereign bonds and encourage the international community and private sector to actively promote their use. We ask our Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors to discuss the progress achieved on this and related issues.“
”Strengthened collective action”? Is that where the hedge funds get together and kick the shit out of Argentina?
“ we welcome the international work ” and moving forward, Argentina will not be involved.
Nov 18th, 2014 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is this is what they wanted to say?
“ encourage the international community ”
nope, that definitely excludes Argentina.
I doubt they will be part of they next G20.
Seriously, I really don't think so.
annex
Nov 19th, 2014 - 02:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0noun
noun: annex; plural noun: annexes; noun: annexe
ˈanɛks/
an addition to a document.
“an annex to the report”
To show how unimportant the ANNEX is, it had to be referred to in the communique. In point 12:
”We welcome the Financial Stability Board (FSB) proposal as set out in the Annex requiring global systemically important banks to hold additional loss absorbing capacity that would further protect taxpayers if these banks fail.“
Seems nothing else in the ANNEX rated a mention in the communique.
The fact is, that in diplomatic speak, it only makes it into the ANNEX if it could not be agreed upon by everyone to be in the communique.
Great win Argentina. Changes nothing. Surprised the ”Malvinas” didn't make it in.
My guess is that Argentina thinks that the law will be changed and will help them escape their current plight in New York. Obviously, to most people with half a brain, it will be of no use. But no doubt they will moan and bitch about how unfair their creditors are being 'when the whole word agrees it is not fair'.
Nov 19th, 2014 - 07:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can practically hear the wailing from here.
34 Iron Man#
Nov 19th, 2014 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“But no doubt they will moan and bitch about how unfair their creditors are being 'when the whole word agrees it is not fair'.”
When Argentina claims that 'the whole world' supports them, what they really mean is the 'Argentine world' - that small collection of countries that have indicated varying levels of support, usually SA countries that pay lip- service to their 'Lost malvinas' cause.
28 NABO
Nov 19th, 2014 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina claims support in the final communique - it does not appear there at all. Without any mention of Argentina it appears as a “to do” matter with no real urgency.
Big deal - I don't think!
@24. Could you try English? In the meantime, I am completely in favour of 'aid' to argieland. One megaton for every lie it's told. Please note that I don't mean every 'different' lie. Just counting each lie. Tens of thousands of megatons.
Nov 19th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34, @35, @36
Nov 19th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that permanent members of this “club” exercise two main toils : 1) To point out the hypocrisy, double-face, falsehood of all Argentine foreign policy statements and actions, with no exceptions; in paralel with the loftiness, nobility and grandeur of the corresponding ones of the U.K. and U.S.A. Of course these last , self-evident as they are and have always been, need no defence, but thorough people are thorough people, and praise is deserved. 2) The same as 1) with respect to the fruitless, futile, idle, good for nothing, nugatory character of the afore-mentioned Argentine statements and actions in dealing with its objectives. Two simple question occurs : Aren´t more than thirty years since the S. Atlantic war, and more than ten since Argentine first default enough to convince the whole world of our condition as a failed state..? And, consequently: is it necessary for all of you to insist day after day on the same visit to the realm of boredom...? And a third question naturally arises: what POWERFUL stimuli may move this derogatory merry-go-round...?.
@ 38 Argenfellow
Nov 19th, 2014 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And a third question naturally arises: what POWERFUL stimuli may move this derogatory merry-go-round...?.”
That's an easy one for me personally, it's called laughter.
I nearly didn't bother wading through this monolith.
What is is with Spanish that requires NO paragraphs when you try and write something AND then you translate it to English and make it unreadable?
@38 to be fair your English is better than my Spanish. That said, it still didn't make enough sense to reply properly. I think what you are getting at is that some (many) contribitors on here post negative comments on developments in Argentina and what would it take to change that?
Nov 19th, 2014 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, your leaders could stop routinely trying to spread lies and make demands in areas where they have no ability to do so. I appreciate many people can be embarrassed by things their leaders say, but you can't blame the rest of the world for feeling that your representatives, well, represent you.
Secondly, your population could behave less like a mob in occasions such as the visit of TV programmes such as Top Gear. Even if you think they were trying it on, which they vehemently deny, a set of number plates shouldn't be the cause of attempted murder.
Add in economic mismanagement, debt default, corruption, dual currency rates, economic data misrepresentation etc and it's fair to say Argentina has a lot to be modest about. Despite this all we see from official channels are delusional statements and demands, whether that is to pretend that it didn't sign away its sovereignty when it accepted debt, that the UK should enter talks in accordance with a 50 year old UN resolution since superseded by an armed Argentine invasion, and many other examples.
In short, stop acting like slippery conmen and thugs while demanding that everyone else rolls over and hands you whatever you desire.
Does that answer your question?
@38. Fairly easy, dumbjohn. We REAL British want to see you dying. We want to watch you starve. We want to watch you collapse in the street and DIE. Remember how you locked Falkland Islanders into a hall dependent on bar snacks? Remember how you did NOTHING to protect civilians? Don't bother to complain if you get treated the same way. WE don't care. You animals deserve to die. Don't bother with 'civilian'. Argies, despite being queer, faggot, paedophiles, deserve to die. Who can tell the difference between 41 million argie paedophiles and a 'normal' people? Kill the shite!
Nov 19th, 2014 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are still those who believe Argentina's work at the international level looks at a sort of amnesty for current debt held by vulture funds. They are deluded.
Nov 19th, 2014 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is working to create awareness and avoid other countries to fall in the trap, and also to pay their dues to Paul Singer and company. Not many knew about the vultures' practices. In a few months, thanks to the Argentina case, many have been discussing the carrion eaters' habits. (Actually, the nickname vulture is not entirely appropriate, as these birds fulfill a useful role by cleaning the countryside of dead animals).
As I wrote here before, Singer and his acolytes were readying their bags for the cash after judge Griesa's ruling was endorsed by the U.S. Supreme Court. Instead, they will live to regret to have picked a fight with Argentina as their astute schemes are discussed in the international arena, and when appropriate mechanisms to prevent their parasitical practices are finally put in place.
The G-20 declaration--just a start:
Issues for further action -- “Given the challenges litigation poses and in order to strengthen the orderliness and predictability of the sovereign debt restructuring process, we welcome the international work on strengthened collective action and pari passu clauses. We call for their inclusion in international sovereign bonds and encourage the international community and private sector to actively promote their use.”
Argentina is doing nothing of the sort.
Nov 19th, 2014 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just trying to stave off the next economic collapse with words.
Correct me if I am wrong, but surely the queston should be why is a new clause in a contract needed. If you borrow money ( the lender lends in good faith ) you should honour the contract and pay the money back. If you borrow money there must be in place collatoral in the small chance that you may default, that way the person lending the money either gets money or goods to the value of the default. Simple really. I have borrowed money in the past to buy a car and had I not paid the money back the baillifs with a court order would take my car away in lieu of the money. Who in their right mind is going to lend money to Argentina. Christ they think they are hard done by.
Nov 19th, 2014 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@41 Conqueror If you grant us enough time, we´ll provide “REAL British” 41 million strait- jackets. But the fact is that NO BRITISH civilian or military casualties were suffered during the occupation of the Islands, at least due to Argentine action. I remember (vaguely, I confess) that three dead were reported afterwards because of a fire . But, again, we were not made responsible of it. Now, HAS ANY ISLANDER “STARVED” ...? To the best of my recollections, I can´t gather nothing of the sort. With respect to “protection of civilians”, I can only IMAGINE that ill-will towards the occupants (seen as invaders) by the islanders , did not make things easier.
Nov 19th, 2014 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 45 Argenfellow
Nov 19th, 2014 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But the fact is that NO BRITISH civilian or military casualties were suffered during the occupation of the Islands, at least due to Argentine action. I remember (vaguely, I confess) that three dead were reported afterwards because of a fire”
You fucking liar.
255 British military personnel and three Falkland Islanders died during the hostilities, ALL as a result of the cowardly actions of argies.
The civilians were killed by “friendly fire” an awful oxymoron, which meant British forces killed them by accident.
But why were the Brits there you cunt? Because the argie criminals invaded the islands, that’s why.
No wonder we despise argies when scum like you twist the truth, including the little gem “I can only IMAGINE that ill-will towards the occupants (seen as invaders*) by the islanders (SIC), did not make things easier”.
No shit Sherlock! They WERE the fucking invaders, nobody but argie arseholes were ever fooled by it.
Instead of hiding in TDC I suggest you go to the Falklands and talk like that to one of the squaddies guarding the Islanders from dick heads like you. Just make sure you dig your grave first.
@45
Nov 19th, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0” IMAGINE that ill-will towards the occupants (seen as invaders) by the islanders , did not make things easier.”
You treated the Islanders like scum before 1982 (flying in rotten fruit, humiliating them with the white card)-but your country expected respect from people you bullied. How does that work?
What comes round came round.
Argentina's Nazis bullied the Islanders in 1982 and were removed. They were not wanted by the people born on the Islands.
How many Argentines who were born on the Falklands fought in 1982?
If you believe that the Islands are Argentine you have a slight problem.
The 'Argentines' born on the Islands don't want to be Argentinian.
It's a pity you can't work out why, but to most of us it's blatantly obvious.
@42
Nov 19th, 2014 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People have known about vulture funds ever since there were vulture funds. The UK passed legislation against them in 2011. Argentina doesn't seem to have begun its crusade on behalf of the wretched of the earth until a court judgement went against it. But perhaps the most shameful aspect of the whole business is Argentina's attempt to present itself as a desperately poor African country while splurging its dwindling resources on bribes to the electorate and Peronist vanity projects.
We may have our economic problems here, but at the end of the day at least we have good looking women to screw.
Nov 20th, 2014 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I see the Sea lions have been imitating the Islanders lately.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1745212-por-que-hay-focas-que-quieren-copular-con-pinguinos
@ 46 Chris R “ ...¡¡%32!!!!*Ç^·€####¡¡2!!!...”
Nov 20th, 2014 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0I´m afraid that you have been caught in a semantic booby-trap. Let us see:
I wrote : “But the fact is that NO BRITISH civilian or military casualties were suffered during the OCCUPATION of the Islands............” And (WEBSTER´S ENCYCLOPEDIC UNABRIDGED DICTIONARY of the English Language- 1989 Edition) :
(page 996 - column 3) “occupation” : (capitals mine)
1.......................
2.......................
3.......................
4 the ACT of occupying.
5 the STATE of being occupied.
Now, is it necessary to clarify that I was using the fourth and not the fifth meaning....? Yes, it is, when the person you are talking to despises you (HIS words) generously enough as to imagine his interlocutor unaware of what the whole world knows (namely the number of killed in both sides). And I took special care in writing BRITISH casualties, because our first one, Captain Giachino, belonged to the first “wave”. Despise the whole world (except yourself, I guess), if you like, Chris, but CAUTION is necessary. Laugh at my prescriptive grammar (you are entitled to do so), but mind your semantics.
Well someone better at SEMANTICS would have used “during the process of occupying the Islands” or “as the occupation of the Islands proceeded” or “while occupying”. But using a word that could be a verb or noun isn't being very clear.
Nov 20th, 2014 - 07:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0The simple fact is that Argentina did militarily occupy the Islands for an extremely brief time and subsequently lost them forever.
Wrap your semantics around that.
@50
Nov 20th, 2014 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Define “ Occupation” for me as you are so educated.
@50
Nov 20th, 2014 - 08:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0How about the illegal occupation and forced detention of the Falkland Islanders.
@50
Nov 20th, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just another brainwashed argie troll, this one is cashing cheques that his capabilities can't meet!
@ 40 Iron Man
Nov 21st, 2014 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you very much for your answer. I have found its three initial paragraphs, and the first half of the fourth clear, precise and much to the point. I subscribe to them without reserve. We move forward :
“Despite this, all we see from official channels are delusional statements and demands, whether that is to pretend that it didn´t sign away its sovereignity when it accepted debt....”. Delusional...? Well, it may be...
WITH THE PROVISO, I must add, that debt has been the result of normal and regular transactions; and not of devious and deceitful maneuvers to inflate it beyond any boundaries, so as to make impossible its repayment without the loss of valuable natural resources, WHICH IS THE FINAL GOAL OF MODERN PIRATES. But these (the lenders) are on one side of the table. On the other are the borrowers in the Government (traitors far worse than any HAW-HAW or CAMBRIDGE FIVE you have known ).
“....that the UK should enter talks in accordance with a 50 year old UN resolution since superseded by an armed Argentine invasion...”
Well, we arrive at a delicate point. Kind as you have been with me, I willy-nilly smile at the idea (you won´t, certainly) that at this venture, we found EXCELLENT company: no less than Mrs. CLINTON, who as Secretary of State recommended the UK and Argentina to follow precisely this way , with the corresponding English outburst .
“In short, stop acting like slippery conmen and thugs while demanding that everyone else rolls over and hands you whatever you desire”
“Does that answer your question ?”
It has ALMOST done it, thank you again. A little, but CRUCIAL precision is lacking: HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO RECONCILE SUCH UNENVIABLE PICTURE OF OUR BEHAVIOR WITH THE STEADY FULFILLMENT OF OUR DUTIES WITH 93% OF OUR BONDHOLDERS, AND, FURTHERMORE, WITH THE IMMEDIATE SUPPORT THAT OUR FIGHT AGAINST THE VULTURES HAS GAINED ON THE WHOLE WORLD...?. You never expected this last occurrence, right..?
@55
Nov 21st, 2014 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 093% of the bondholders accepted an ultimatum, “ we pay you 30 cents on the US$ or get nothing” 7% of bondholders want their money back with interest. You are going to say that some of the bondholders bought the bonds cheaply, that is correct but they bought bonds at 50 cents on the US$. All they want is 100% + interest and after all most of the bonds in question were sold under US law.
55. It is far from “almost done”. Like parties are piling on, the holdins will most likely accelerate Q1 2015. In the end I think Arg will end up being finally forced to negotiate in good faith and it will end up with much more debt overall.
Nov 22nd, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think this will happen in 2015.
CFK is a known nutbag, Austral Elvis is dumb as a box of rocks and resorts to screaming and crying to get his way. That doesn't work in the real world.
This will take years to fix.
With Soy under U$400 BCRA will be tapped out by Aug 2015.
Tapped out.
Wait and see
I don't know what most of u are talking about here, you all sound like paid puppets of the vulture funds.
Nov 23rd, 2014 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is an obvious victory for the Argentinian Government and other governments that have huge debt.
The US Federal Government also has huge debt. When the US government will default its debt then the American people will also benefit from the present steps to force the restructuring of debts.
@57 yankeeboy
Nov 24th, 2014 - 12:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0I´ll do. But I think that yours is not an answer to the last “precision” I required to Iron Man.
#58 spoken like a true deadbeat.
Nov 24th, 2014 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don;t know what all your trolls are talking about here, you all sound like paid puppets of indocrinated la campora........aka the new hitler youth.
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