MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands' public opinion petition seeks to end ‘distressing’ flag-waving by visiting Argentines
A petition demanding action from the Falkland Islands Government in relation to Argentine visitors displaying Argentine flags says the behavior by the culprits is “disturbing, unsettling and distressing to many Falkland Islanders”, reports the Penguin News. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIf one flag is waved the FIG should ban all flights from Argyland for at least 5 years that would make the genuine visitors knock ten bells of shit out of any instigator that upsets their visit to the cemetery. Or have them clearing mines, when they've collected 100 then they can go home !
Dec 03rd, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol. Whats distressing is your colony.
Dec 03rd, 2014 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There seems to be different sets of standard in the FI and in Argentina. You can come to the FI and make propaganda by displaying Argentine flags and behaving as you own the place. Nothing really happens. But a ship cannot enter an Argentine port with an FI flag hoisted. And even a vehicle registration plate can be seen as offensive and lead to diplomatic protests.
Dec 03rd, 2014 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would not fuck about with them I would get a helicopter tie their feet and hands together and fly them over a nice stretch of water and and kick the fuckers out. Problem solved they would soon get the message not to disrespect there betters. You think I am kidding ? Nope we are far to soft with these buggers from Argentina they need a lesson in manners that they will never forget.
Dec 03rd, 2014 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Disgraceful behaviour by the visitors from Argentina!
Dec 03rd, 2014 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you can come to Arg and make propaganda by displaying UK flag, in fact there are boots snickers t-shirts with UK flag and are weared by argentines. nothing really happens.
Dec 03rd, 2014 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but an arg ship cannot enter Malvinas Is. with an arg flag, you make it change.
I remember a couple travelling in a Little boat, how you treated them, dont let them got down and using arg flag in port.
the number plate was choosed deliberatelly to produce arg reaction in show based on provocking peoples angry reactions. and that was what happenned at the end, because during long they where travelling with that plate in other cities of Arg and nobody noticed it. Please, post us the chapter, I want to see clarckson under the bed. which channel is the one of TG?? I dont have it.
it's not just flag waving, there is graffiti, plaques left around, visitor books with rude comments, and one instance one of them had crapped on the floor of a public toilet, but that's nothing new it was done in 82 all over the place.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Clearly taking advantage of The Falkland Islanders hospitality, Deny argentine passports at stanley airport and put them ALL straight back on their early return flight for a period of 2 years and for every Argentine incident disrespecting The Falklands population add another year every time,
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0No nonsense policy!
typical argentine mentality....Pathetic and utterly pointless, a lot like their existence
One of the ways to deal with the flag waving is to confiscate the flag and take the passports of the perpetrators and deport them and stamp in their passports “ personna non gratia ” and keep a data base of the names. Nothing spectacular but should work. Making sure that the stamp in the passport is clearly seen so that other countries will get the message. Or if you want to be more bombastic you could take the passports and invite them to burn the flags for in return of the passports.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 07 And I remember the virgin of Luján in arg cemetery being shot and not by an argentine......
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0the caretaker did it 99% sure
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some good suggestions there from golfcronie.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0I would add to this by saying that apart from stamping their passport as persona non gratia, that anyone accompanying them was also banned from visiting the Islands again. Guilt by association.
How is the offender going to explain to his fellow passengers that he's prevented any of them from revisiting the Islands? That would be a very difficult conversation.
@10 I guessed it backfired didn't it. lol.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just smack the dirty greace balls in the kisser load them onto a helicopter and drop the bastards into the ocean after all that's what their use to.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite simple really.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Allow in confirmed relatives only (necessary paperwork required).
A fee must be paid by the visitors to cover the costs of a police escort.
Any non-compliance of the rules equals remand in a police cell until their transport departs.
No re-admittance, ever. No appeals.
A large fine must be paid on departure.
No entry unless insurance documents/cash (of a decent currency) can be shown to cover cost of said fines, should misbehaviour occur.
This will ensure compliance, and an increase in revenue and greater employment for the Falkland Islanders, whilst still permitting foreign families to visit those uselessly sacrificed for pointless and illegal Argentine colonialist aspirations.
keep it civil, keep it strong. They only understand a firm hand.
If not, just horse-whip the buggers in the public square.
just a thought...
Send the navy now Brits!
Dec 04th, 2014 - 03:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's our flag, it's our country if you don't like it go back to your own island in far away Europe.
In Argntina they stone people with licence plates that remind them of the war.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 03:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0In Falkland Islands they have petitions.
The difference between a civilised culture and a quasi-fascist one.
What happen to Alan Addis Mr. Skip?
Dec 04th, 2014 - 04:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“civilised culture” Really?
I offered a civillised agreement, however @18 is so crass as to bring up such sad events as a missing serviceman.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 04:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Therefore he gives me no option that Marcos Alej-pendejo will have to suffer the secondary option.
His choice. He didn't obey British rules,
Get him horse-whipped in the public square, pronto!
This merely confirms Argentina's reputation for being a dirty and untrustworthy people.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Alan Addis, Marcos?
Dec 04th, 2014 - 07:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahahahaha
Your uncivilised country has killed 255 Britons since he died. But then they had so much practise throwing nuns from planes.
Should the Falkland Islanders start stoning Argentineans who fly their flag in the Falklands? Seems it is acceptable practice for the monkeys in Argentina.
It shames the people who do it, so let the world see what the islanders have to put up with. Then stamp their passports and ban them. But do get it in perspective - this is just a bunch of bad losers acting disrespectfully to a neighbour. They are not doing serious harm because they are incapable of doing so; immasculated, beaten, pathetic.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0The disgusting blue and white puke filled rag is somewhat of an RG fantasy. (It's all they have). But it should't be too difficult to create a local law banning it from the Islands. After all, the Spanish lemon turd isn't allowed to be flown on the Rock.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Malen- Argentine flagged vessels can visit the Islands -just the same as Argentine registered private aircraft do.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0All the Argentine vessel has to do on arrival is fly the standard international courtesy - the flag of the territory it is visiting - several Argentine small boats visit - and fly it as per standard international courtesy. As do the vessels of all other foreign countries that arrive here.
It's a matter for the Falkland Islanders, presumably they use UK law, any person acting in a manner likely to cause harassment alarm and distress, section 5 public order, lock em up. Confiscation order of the rag they call a flag, sit in a prison cell till the next flight and then deported back to Argentina and banned from future travel to the islands.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stop whinging and get on with it!
Single Sky: EU members respond to bid for Gib exclusion with call for Anglo-Spanish solution
Dec 04th, 2014 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0resulted in Britain being pushed towards talking with Spain
Spain wants the entire agreement to reflect the position as at the time of the 1987 Airport Agreement – Gibraltar out unless it agrees Spain shares use of the airport under the terms of that long rejected arrangement.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=35107
As long as we are in and under the control of our European masters,
Are we seeing the last years of British control over Gibraltar,
Will the weak British government cave in, and give Spain some control,
Will Gibraltar throw this out,
If Britain is bullied and cajoled into submission over Gibraltar, who will be next,
Or is this just bluster from Spain, and will we and Gibraltar have nothing to worry abt,
Interesting future,
Just an opinion..
.
@26
Dec 04th, 2014 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0All I would say to that is that we contribute considerably more money than Spain and money talks. Going forward with a referendum looming, I doubt the EU will be wanting to do too much to antagonise one of it's main net contributors in to leaving.
I see the lying twat malen is back spouting her lies, which of course are easily 'blown out of the water' just like the cowardly military of the scum who infest Argentina.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2012/04/02/rioters-attack-uk-embassy-in-buenos-aires-with-stones-sticks-and-gasoline-bombs
ALWAYS the same old, same old.
As for the flag wavers just have a large notice banning the wearing of fatigues, waving the rag and any other disrespectful action as deemed by the RFIP will result in jail until the return transport is available.
The notice does need to be in low level jibber-jabber as understood by the thugs who do this nonsense.
Stamping passports may be counterproductive as these idiots will show it as an 'act of bravery' to the numbnuts and the press at 'home'.
@1. I wasn't aware that there are any flights from argieland. So what would be appropriate is two measures. First, the offender(s) should spend the rest of their time on the Falklands in a prison cell and, as part of the removal process, a sticker should be fixed to the validity page or section of their passport(s) to the effect that the document is not valid for travel to the Falkland Islands AND given a letter stating that they will NEVER be permitted on the Falkland Islands in the future. THEN you can have a ban on ALL argies for the next 5 years, irrespective of where they travel from. And put in place penalties, so that any aircraft that transports an argie to the Islands is immediately liable to forfeiture. In the case of vessels, any used for that purpose would be subject to the same penalty or an alternative £5,000 fine for each argie passenger.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0@6. You're a fool. Flying the national flag of a country whose waters or ports you are entering is a normal international courtesy. But courtesy is something argies know nothing about. Nor about being 'normal'. As for the number plate, YOU invaded, YOU occupied, YOU started a war and YOU lost. Beaten by much better people. Would you be angry because you're ashamed? Remember that YOU sent 66,000 military personnel to overcome 80 Royal Marines. My, YOU must have been scared!
@10. I didn't know there were any virgins associated wityh argieland!
@15. Far too soft!
@16. Continue to be a joke. If it's your country, stay in it. Quit trying to get above yourselves. We send ONE ship, just ONE, and you're screaming in terror.
@18. Alan Addis. That's an easy one. The Falkland Islands were being scouted by argies. Marine Addis was murdered by argies. Taken aboard argie sub, tortured and then dumped overboard! The South Atlantic is a British war cemetery. Stay out!
The Constitution of the Falkland Islands protects freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of conscience for all those who are legally in the Falklands. Argentine visitors are legally in the Falklands (as visitors) and the stamp in their passport confirms that. Whilst they are here they are subject to Falklands Law (not UK law #25). It is illegal to cause distress and harassment to another person , and is punishable by a fine or imprisonment.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Most of the Argie flag wavers here are timid fantasists who wave their flags where no-one can see them and post photos to try to convince themselves and their mates that they are some kind of latter day conquistadors. They are nothing of the sort. They are just visitors to our country. Their juvenile and dis-respectful behaviour shows them for what they are, beaten and timid fantasists, better ignored.
We have nothing to fear from any of these bad mannered louts, but no doubt they find a bit of freedom from repression quite refreshing. Grow up children.
@18 And what about those nuns you lot chucked out of a plane? Alan Addiss is an unsolved murder, doesn't make us uncivilised, happens in lots of countries.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0RG morons, hopelessly indoctrinated.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anoying I can imagine, and I think the FIG should do something about this 'bad taste' individuals.
Falkland Islanders, you should take this as far as it will go, and make the RG govt abandon their pathetic stance, - And aknowlage they have to speak to The Falklands Islands Government.
Unfortunately nothing can be done about flag waving. We cannot stop them flying the Argentine flag as it is against our constitution, to ban one nationality flying there flag in the Falklands would mean banning all nationalities flying there flag, we cannot discriminate against one nationality without changing our constitution. I say let them prance about the hills in there stupid uniforms and wave there flag if it makes them feel important, end of the day the islands are British. Although should they carry on like this in Stanley, it will not end well for them.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#33 et al.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps you could offer an expensive video service where you film their pathetic flag waving antics (for a heavy price) before adding them to the collection to be rolled out if Argentina ever claims “provocation” by, for example, a license plate with a vague reference to a war they started.
In fact you could just host the videos on “flag-waving-idiots.org.fk”. That would be fun.
@Brian (33)
Dec 04th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right. It is Freedom of Speech. If the Argentines want to act disrepectfully, let them. We need to show the world that we are better than them and that we uphold human rights (e.g. freedom of speech). We cannot sink to their level by picking and choosing what human rights we like and don't like.
The trolls are really quite nonsensical in their comments - really entertaining first thing in the morning. Especially as most of them can barely make themselves understood in the language of this forum.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a load of utter NABOS!
@ 33
Dec 04th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Absolutely well said Brian. I couldn´t agree more with you.
Banning argentinian flags on the FI would be as pointless and senseless and our pathetic, shameful“gaucho rivero” law, not to mention it may lead to unfair situations to those who respectfully want to visit the Islands.
If any Argentinian visitor is causing distress, he can be prosecuted under current legislation. Get his arse to the courthouse, fine him and kick him out of the place.
I for one find that attitude (displaying flags over the islands) as an immature behavior which may lead to a regretful incident with some of the locals. This is NOT a helpful way to build ties.
Let´s hope common sense prevails.
Whilst I understand the points made by GALlamosa (30) and Brian F.I. (33) and tend to agree that it is worth preserving the right of free speech, there comes a point when the actions of flag waving becomes more sinister, because it leads to other behaviour which is far less peaceful.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What I am referring to is the recent visit by a group of Argentine flag wavers which was investigated by both Falkland Islanders and British supporters and concluded that the vandalism found on a war memorial and a lamp post had been placed there by these provocateurs.
The same group also wrote similar messages in the visitors book when they went to one of the local museums, but they weren't very smart, because they used the same handwriting as seen on the war memorial.
From the names in the visitors book, several Falkland Islanders and myself have managed to locate the Facebook pages of these vandals and we found that they had gone up Mount Tumbledown and planted an Argentine flag, then sat around taking pictures under it.
I'm attaching the URLs to the Facebook pages, so you can see for yourself.
One member of this group appears to work for the Ministry of Infrastructure and another 'Malvinistas' has pictures of himself with the Argentine President.
https://www.facebook.com/carlos.giordano?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/carlos.giordano?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/carlos.giordano?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/carlos.giordano?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/carlos.giordano?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/carlos.giordano?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/carlos.giordano?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/carlos.giordano?fref=ts
From the handwriting, we were able to determine that the vandal could be either Joaquim Robert or Camilo Giordano as there are several key similarities in the text. Most notably the letters G, R, A and N.
Where do you draw the line, when flag waving becomes something more aggressive?
#38 Very many thanks for that, I am sure those with responsibility for national security and crime prevention will have taken good note of your excellent work.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vandalism is a crime. Hopefully these people will be added to the list of PNG's.
@ 38
Dec 04th, 2014 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it is of any good, I find that shameful, disrespectful and unacceptable. My sincere apologies for such behavior, which affects you AND the memory of those who never returned.
Apologies it was Mount Longdon, not Tumbledown and they had a dinner on their return to celebrate their flag waving and wrote about it afterwards:
Dec 04th, 2014 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://tiempo.infonews.com/nota/137938/una-noche-en-monte-longdon-una-bandera-argentina-en-las-islas
A certain Ernesto Alonso is a frequent visitor to the Islands. His son was on the latest trip. He is the President of the association of ex-combatants of the war and there are loads of pictures of him with Daniel Filmus and one with CFK as well.
http://tiempo.infonews.com/nota/137938/una-noche-en-monte-longdon-una-bandera-argentina-en-las-islas
They actually state that the point of these visits is to seek 'their rights' over the Islands and it seems that this is extending to vandalising the Islands with crude graffiti.
How long before they start more aggressive behaviour to assert 'their rights'?
The Union Jack should be banned in Argentina if this goes through. Anyone with that flag in their hands, backpack, clothing, or skin is immediately deported, and their belongings consiscated.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Your a racist pure and simple, a pathetic excuse for a human being. And to be honest if someone flew the union jack in Argentina a mob would probably kill them. We are more civilized than u barbaric scum, we discuss and debate these issues as a community and then put the opposing arguments to our leaders. What do Argies do? They come and spray graffiti on our WW1 memorial and piss people off. I will be keeping an eye out for these scum bags that come down here, and if I catch them desecrating a war memorial........ well lets just say i could get 10 to 20 people to “teach them to be civilized”....... that would be an extreme measure and I would rather to stoop to your level, but an eye for an eye.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Calm down Brian, don´t feed the trolls.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is illegal to enter Barbados wearing or in the procession of Camouflage clothing. Unless you are in the Barbadian military, or an adviser to their military.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Barbados Regiment is affiliated to the Royal Anglian Regiment.
Given the locals sensitivity to the Argentinian military.
Sure such a law could be enacted in the Falkland islands, banning tourists from wearing Military style clothing or insignia, including flags.
Seems to me all Argentines should be banned for their own protection, though it beats me as to why the authorities would let in citizens of a hostile nation in the first place. As for waving the Union Jack in Argentina , you'd have to go there first and who would be stupid enought to want to do that ?
Dec 04th, 2014 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be interesting to know what these silly Argie tourists think about the Top Gear incident down in Ushuaia a few weeks ago........if they think that the TG crew “got what they deserved”, then maybe some rock throwing at these Argie numbnuts would be appropriate....and in the 2nd photo above, looks like there's no shortage of ammo..
Dec 04th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 042, Germany lost,
Dec 04th, 2014 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina lost,
you are just a die hard fanatic that hides behind the sofa,
go on be a man, get on the first plane and go to Syria and join isis, they will welcome you.
but you wont, will you, its safer to stay here...
If the Argentine flags are flown without witnesses and later posted as photographs-it should be ignored as a pathetic stunt-like all Argentine stunts it alienates them further from the Falkland Islanders and therefore because the Islanders decide who governs them, even further from the Argentine dreams of colonising the Islands. In WW2, Lord Haw Haw's attempts to intimidate the Brits led to them laughing at him.
Dec 04th, 2014 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I found Corned Beef Kate even funnier in 1982.
If Argentine visitors visibly antagonise Falkland Islanders by waving their flag, then any retaliation against the Argentines should not be prosecuted by the RFP, and I think a law should be passed to this effect, stating provocation as a legitimate excuse.
A question for Top Gear viewers, have Top Gear ever been to the Falklands to have a race over the camp in 4wds?
I've just had a wicked idea......
Why does the FI government allow Argie visitors without a visa process? If visitors from a certain country are known to cause problems most other countries will institute a visa policy to keep out the potential troublemakers...
Dec 04th, 2014 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3 Swede
Dec 04th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right, there are different sets of standard in the FI and in Argentina.
In Argentina:
You can wave the UK flag, the English rugby, soccer, etc shirts without any issue. No bans regarding this issue at all.
Any UK sport national team can play official and private games whithout any issue.
Any UK citizen, islander and even Members of the Ryoal Family can enter the country, practice sports and visit all the national territory without any restriction.
Any UK citizen or Islander can get a DNI (Identification Card) as any other foreigner whitout any “special” treatement.
Any UK citizen, even islander, can buy land, properties and large farms even in Patagonia and in Tierra del Fuego
Any UK citizen, even islander, can print a book with his/her opinions about the war and the current political situation.
Any UK citizen, even islander, can be buried without having his/her grave violated in any way
Any UK citizen, even islander, can inherit properties, land and farms.
Any UK, and islander, representative can enter the country without any inconvinience and even talk to the press and the local media
Any UK commercial and private airplane can enter the Argentine Air Space. Even UK warplanes had done this when needed, for their safety, due to bad wheather in the Islands. All of this without being harassed by the Argentina Air Force.
Any UK, even islander, private ships can enter the Argentine Territorial Waters without any issue or “special green” light.
Royal Navy ships, and other ships, coming from the FI were assisted by argentine uthorities even when they had been rejected from the FI.
I hope any argentine citizen would received the very same kind of treatement from the UK and the FI
From my point of view waving argentine flags and dressing military clothing are stupid attitudes from people stuck in old times so I would suggest that not any single argentine citizen would be allowed to enter tne FI. Basically to avoid future inconveniences.
In Argentina, they even stone their own football players to death!
Dec 04th, 2014 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-30329576
1 brucey-babe (#), are you aware that the ONLY flights you have (except the military) are a result of “Argyland”'s decision to give you the LAN flight? Remember that Chile cut the service in 1998 and it was Argentina that got it back. Your proposal is dangerous as you would lose the only flight you have thanks to Argentina!
Dec 04th, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 052 nigelpwsmith (#)
Dec 04th, 2014 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You beat me too it, wonder if will be a main story in MercoPress tomorrow?
I'm sure there will be a lot of comment on it if so.
So this is what they do to their own citizens, bloody scary place.
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results
Dec 04th, 2014 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Global Corruption Index Score : Argentina down 3 to 197th position (one-hundred-and-seventh!)
54 Zathras (love that character!)
Dec 04th, 2014 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Australia, a batsman is accidentally struck by a ball and dies - the entire nation mourns, as well as many others around the world.
In Argentina, eight players are sent off for fighting on the pitch, then the supporters kill the captain of the team after the match!
15 people die every year in Argentina in football related violence.
Something makes me believe that Argentina ought to be banned from FIFA until they can realise that it's only a sport, not war and stop using football matches to promote political messages.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/world-cup-2014-argentina-to-face-fifa-probe-over-controversial-falklands-banner-displayed-ahead-of-tournament-warmup-match-9521189.html
53 - What a distortion of the facts! Yes Chile cut the flights - butt - then Argentina said - if they are to start again there will be new conditions!
Dec 04th, 2014 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Argentines will be able to travel to the Islands.
2.There will be direct flights from an Argentine airport to the Islands by Lan
No - the truth is that Argentina imposed conditions on any agreement between Lan and the Islands to resume flights.
We owe you lot Zero. you are free to withdraw overflight rights if you like- it will simply mean no more visits to the war graves and battlefields by Argentine next of kin families and veterans seeking mental “closure” and paying respects to their comrades.
There are other flight connections open to the Islands that do not involve flying through Arg airspace.
Ambassador's speech onboard HMS Dragon in Chile
Dec 05th, 2014 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ambassador-fiona-clouders-speech-onboard-hms-dragon-in-chile
Ambassador Fiona Clouder-
Thank you to Captain Cox and all his Dragons, for hosting us on board, HMS DRAGON, this evening.
Apparently her family come from Engfland.
Tonight we are on a beautiful ship, sleek in design, advanced in its technology. But what struck me are also the values of her crew - commitment, courage, discipline, respect, integrity and loyalty
.
#53and57
Dec 05th, 2014 - 04:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0The LAN767 flight is a valuable alternative link for the FI and this stupid talk about the lack of its importance is ignorant. Having to put up with a few Argentine clowns from time to time is a minor inconvenience. Punta Arenas welcomes FI visitors and provides valuable support services.
Argentines in general are idiots, but you seem to be in competition with your mindless rhetoric.
#59. Spot on my friend.
Dec 05th, 2014 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 59
Dec 05th, 2014 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0oh boy .... may I know from what heaven are you from?
Wise up and stop those offensive generalizations, unless you want to end up looking as those you claim to dislike so much ...
Oh these are just prankster kids wanting to post their picture on Facebook.
Dec 05th, 2014 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's not like the Mexicans down in Texas and California flying the Mexican flag outside their houses. No one does anything about that there.
@ 62
Dec 05th, 2014 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Even though I have the up most respect for war veterans, and I think they are mostly condoned on certain opinions and attitudes (I can´t expect them to have a cold mind on this issue) I thing they should be a little bit more careful when they are down there.
By displaying flags or dressing in fatigues they will gain nothing but troubles, and they may pave the way for future troubles for other veterans / relatives of KIA who may want to travel.
Some common sense should not hurt anybody. And frankly, I don´t see how going there and displaying a flag may be a good way to honor their fallen comrades. After all, and in what is my humble opinion, they were forced to fight a war just to cover a dying military government (but, again, that´s my cold minded opinion)
Some of the contributors to this forum should realise that not all Argentines are represented here by the trolls and mamarrachos such as paulcedron and Marquitos Alejandrito and others.
Dec 05th, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SebaSvtz is clearly someone who needs to be listened to and respected even though the trolls may decide he is a cipaypo.
¡Saludos, Seba, desde Inglaterra!
#61
Dec 05th, 2014 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chile
The truth of the matter is Argentina has no use for the Malvinas.
Dec 05th, 2014 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What happened in 1833 is ancient history. Argentina cannot think in a 19centrury mind set.
It’s time to let of 181 years of nothing and a war that they fought ill equipped.
It’s time to take out the recovering Malvinas from your constitution and sit down with the Islanders for a mutually beneficial future.
I hope a future Argentine administration has the balls to see with 21 century eyes.
@ 65
Dec 05th, 2014 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suspected that, being harsh against anything Argentinian seems to be a national sport over there. Sad indeed. And unfair.
Unfair!?!?! Bahahahahahaha
Dec 05th, 2014 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Chile can't choose its neighbour. Like the Falklands it is stuck with an emotionally unstable, economically collapsing and quasi-fascist needy neighbour.
Damm, you squatters are angry!
Dec 05th, 2014 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess thats what you get when all the girls on the Islets resemble sea urchins and your only recourse is to take your sexual frustrations out on the penguins!
Lol At least we have great looking girls here. You guys should visit and see them in their short summer pants ;)
Anger ? It's not as if the FALKLANDERS are stoning anyone, they just think your kind are pathetic.
Dec 05th, 2014 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#67
Dec 06th, 2014 - 03:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, it's just sad to see our neighbors destroying their country. The only happiness I have about their pathetic situation is that their military is no longer any kind of a threat against our southern territory.
Maybe they could make the Argentines burn their Argentine flags in a metal bin on arrival. It could be put on YouTube.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0:)
Just sayin'
#69
Dec 06th, 2014 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Klingon, an apt name. It is an euphemism for dried crap that sticks to a backside and is difficult to remove. Have you considered using bumtrinket instead.... a somewhat more elegant word but equally evocative.
Just issue every argentine visting with the traditional argentine battle ensign as flown by their heroic warriors.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I belive its plain white on a white background.
Klingon - if you revise other threads I think it was decided several days ago that Argentine women acre boobless and have big feet and always forget to shave their legs and armpits. Give me penguin anytime¡
Dec 08th, 2014 - 02:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”“”It's our flag, it's our country if you don't like it go back to your own island in far away Europe.“””
Dec 08th, 2014 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0is that what the local Indians say about you colonizing Spaniards in the so-called Argentinie lands??
There are different sets of standard in the FI and in Argentina.
Dec 08th, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina:
You can wave the UK flag, the English rugby, soccer, etc shirts without any issue. No bans regarding this issue at all.
Any UK sport national team can play official and private games whithout any issue.
Any UK citizen, islander and even Members of the Ryoal Family can enter the country, practice sports and visit all the national territory without any restriction.
Any UK citizen or Islander can get a DNI (Identification Card) as any other foreigner whitout any “special” treatement.
Any UK citizen, even islander, can buy land, properties and large farms even in Patagonia and in Tierra del Fuego
Any UK citizen, even islander, can print a book with his/her opinions about the war and the current political situation.
Any UK citizen, even islander, can be buried without having his/her grave violated in any way
Any UK citizen, even islander, can inherit properties, land and farms.
Any UK, and islander, representative can enter the country without any inconvinience and even talk to the press and the local media
Any UK commercial and private airplane can enter the Argentine Air Space. Even UK warplanes had done this when needed, for their safety, due to bad wheather in the Islands. All of this without being harassed by the Argentina Air Force.
Any UK, even islander, private ships can enter the Argentine Territorial Waters without any issue or “special green” light.
Royal Navy ships, and other ships, coming from the FI were assisted by argentine uthorities even when they had been rejected from the FI.
I hope any argentine citizen would received the very same kind of treatement from the UK and the FI
From my point of view waving argentine flags and dressing military clothing are stupid attitudes from people stuck in old times so I would suggest that not any single argentine citizen would be allowed to enter tne FI. Basically to avoid future inconveniences
NO COMENTS? DO YOU AGREE?
The yellow card allowed anyone identified as an enemy soldier could be shot without warning
Dec 08th, 2014 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he typical colonial attitude of the british. All those argentine that let their passports being stamped are putting themself under the illegal fantasie the british call “FIG”. So yes if the argentine flag is banned there then they should face the law.
Dec 10th, 2014 - 04:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0IF they break a monument or make a painting they should be under the law that colony imposed on them.
Particulary, it is a fact british have confiscated argentine flags on the islands saying it is to avoid distress on the population. Now there is no attitude more fascist than a prohibition of a flag. Even if by that flag is expressed the sovereignty dispute that mad the islanders souls. Becouse like it or not, the islands are not recognized as an independent nation self governed and self determined. They are internationally recognized as the opposite, as a colony which sovereignty is disputed between the uk and Argentina. and that, you cant chalenge, even if you make 10 more laws about it. Argentines will still use their human right of free expression.
Now the liberty the british in general have here or the islanders if you want, its an example of democracy and respect of human rights. They have all the liberties here (even to reside here) that they deny that to us why? couse they have a restricted colonial regime that do not wants a pro argentine population. How boring their pubs might be.
@79
Dec 10th, 2014 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's precisely the islands' status as a NSGT that guarantees their right to self-determination and protects them from Argentina's territorial ambitions.
If Argentina seriously thought it had any possibility of ever getting its hands on the islands, it should seek to have them removed from the NSGT list. as the Chinese did with Hong Kong back in the 1970s. As it is, all you have is a strategy for perpetuating an unfounded grievance which is convenient for your political class and gratifying for those who enjoy a sense of victimhood.
#79
Dec 10th, 2014 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0“the illegal fantasie” is that ARGENTINA has any legal claim to the Falkland Islands.
It's like a record stuck in a groove.....no legal proof , just the same tired claims again and again.
When we suggest that you take it to the ICJ....STONY SILENCE !
You really think that the flying of the Argentine flag is not meant as a provocation and a reminder to the population of the intent of your government to take over the land?
Get real ! Would any civilized country allow the flying of the Swastika?
It's only a flag !
So if Israel, UK or the bulk of the countries of Europe ban it, they must be Fascists. That is what you are inferring.
#80: The Non self governing territory status is what the british deny for any of those 10 british colonies. But regardless of what the british think, that is their legal status. So there will be always people that travel to the islands that thinks the islands are a colony or that think the islands are not a colony or that think the islands are argentines or whatever. In any case the islanders should stop behaving like the fascist they are and let people traveling there to think whatever they want. To wear the flag they want or to say whatever they want as long as they dont insult, paint or destroy any property on the islands.
Dec 10th, 2014 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#81: It was Argentina the only one to suggest the ICJ to the uk in 1884 with respect to Malvinas. The british refused then and refuse now to take any arbitration or to dialogue over sovereignty saying their arrogant speach that they have no doubt of british sovereignty over the islands.
The Swastika do not represent the German People or the German Nation. The argentine flag represent our people and our nation. Thats the difference. Nevertheless, in a free country, an idiot like you should be alowed to use the swastika or the north american confederation flag or the flower of your wife printed on your shirt, becouse freedom means you are free to be an asshole. Even insulting your fat's centuries old queen. But thats my opinion.
@82
Dec 10th, 2014 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're somewhat misinformed. The 10 NSGTs are not being held by the UK to their present status against their will, they are free to pursue independence, association with another state, or any other political arrangement they might prefer, whenever they like. Of course a largely Spanish speaking cabal which has seized control of the C24 is attempting to deny two of them this most basic right, with the support of some of the worlds' most unsavoury dictatorships, but fortunately for the principles of democracy and human rights, this group is not nearly big enough to carry the UNGA as a whole.
It's not fascist of the Falklanders to expect some basic good manners on the part of their Argentine visitors, although it's apparently unrealistic.
There was no ICJ in 1884. There has, however, been an international court since the 1920s, so you've had nearly 100 years to take your case to the competent authority, and if we're to believe everything you claim, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing so. And yet you haven't. How very odd.
And as regard dialogue, throughout the entire post war period, British governments were perfectly happy to discuss sovereignity with Argentina, right up until some weeks before Argentina decided to start a war instead in 1982. Given that Argentina was completely incapable of negotiating a solution when British governments actively wanted to give up the islands, it is rather difficult to see how they expect to negotiate one now, 1000 deaths later, when no British government could give them what they want and expect to survive. Nonetheless, the British door remains open, just so long as the people whose rights are most rightly affected, are involved in the process. This isn't arrogant, it's remarkably generous.
#82
Dec 10th, 2014 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An idiot like me ? That's a good one coming from an indoctrinated prat like YOU.
“their arrogant speach” Britain is arrogant but Argentina is not? You do live in another dimension..
According to YOUR government, they also declare sovereignty over South Georgia and other sub antarctic islands and seas for NO LEGAL REASON apart from “we want them”.
Any fair minded person ,(that excludes you), would consider that arrogance in the extreme.
I presume you would be happy to allow a group of Islanders to wander around
B. A.waving the Falkland's flag ?
I am sure that your populace would be happy with that or would it lead to the ritual tyre burning and possible lynchings ?
The swastika DID represent the German nation up to 1945. It is associated with mass murder, genocide and other atrocities . If you cannot see why this flag should not be flaunted then you are a miserable excuse for humanity.
You would also advocate the flag of Dixie to be paraded through black areas in the USA with chants of niggers out ?
Who is our fat's centuries old queen. Yo no comprendo.
I am glad to see that you ended your diatribe with the sentence... thats my opinion. Exactly, you have got it in one. Anything you stated is worth no more than that.
#83: Quote: “The 10 NSGTs are not being held by the UK to their present status against their will, they are free to pursue independence, association with another state, or any other political arrangement they might prefer”
Dec 10th, 2014 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you are the owner of the colony, of course you will never be held against your will, becouse you are the COLONIZER!!!!!.
About the c24 you make no sense at all. The uk has 10 colonies. two of them are under a sovereignty dispute. If you think that the c24 favours Argentina and Spain for being spanish speaking nations, then what about the other eight colonies that remains in the process of decolonization and has no sovereignty dispute at all and are not spanish?. Lets take Turks and Caicos case for example, what the uk did there was a pure classic colonization move in this 21 century. It is a shame!!!!.
The c24 was created in 1961 by the UNGA. I wonder why the uk was not presented as a candidate for a membership?.
Prat #84: QUOTE; “I presume you would be happy to allow a group of Islanders to wander around B. A.waving the Falkland's flag ?”
The islanders are welcome here as always to wave a flag or do whatever they feel like, we live in democracy. And if they break the law, if they destroy argentine property, a fair trial will judge them.
About the swastika, the current german flag and german nation do not represent the german swastika of 1945. The same as the current argentine flag and nation do not represent the military junta. You are so ignorant that you might think we are still a dictatorship or whatever comes to your crazy mind. But we are not, and that dictatorship was imposed to us it was no by referendum nor election that faced us to a military regime.
@85
Dec 11th, 2014 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0“If you are the owner of the colony, of course you will never be held against your will, becouse you are the COLONIZER!!!!!.”
I'm not sure what on earth this is supposed to mean. Let's try it this way. Can you point to the existence, in any British BOT, of a subjugated colonial population yearning to be free?
As regards the Turks and Caicos, I'd invite you to read the UN Annual Report on the territory, and in particular the remarks about the administering power's efforts to restore good governance. (To save you some time: UK intervention is not considered shameful at all by the UN).
While you're at it, you might also like to read the other annual reports on British BOTs. You will note that the Axis of Italo-Iberian Implanted Populations that dominates the C24, in all its anti-colonial fervour, has very little to say about the other territories, but is quite obviously acting in a coordinated manner with respect to the Falklands. Nonetheless, since the debacle of the failed attempt to qualify the right of self-determination in 2008, the AIIIP hasn't dared to put up to the 4th Committee anything but the usual anodyne resolutions calling for dialogue and peaceful settlement, both of which, as we know, are rejected only by Argentina, as indeed is any application of the principles of law, democracy, or human rights. Now that's a shame!!!!!!
ww.un.org/en/decolonization/nonselfgovterritories.shtml
#86:Quote: “I'm not sure what on earth this is supposed to mean. Let's try it this way. Can you point to the existence, in any British BOT, of a subjugated colonial population yearning to be free?”
Dec 11th, 2014 - 05:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lesson 1: take a book and learn how many types of colonialism exist. It will answer all your questions.
The problem you and Britain has is that you think there is only one type of colonialism. The type where exist a subjugated people.
For example:
Imaging that the uk invade France and create a british colony over the french. The french would be subjugated from a foreign power. It is obvious that the right to self determination is universall but the only ones where that right could apply in France, are the french and not the british, do you agree?.
Now imaging the same invasion of France but instead the british expell the French from there, while taking their own citizens to exploit France. How will you define that situation knowing that there is no subjugated people?. OF course the british colonizers would not say hey im colonizing this country that is not ours. They would say, sir we are not a colony, we are a self determined people that decided to be glady represented by Britain. No matter if the French protested ever since they were expelled, or that the world recognize there is a sovereignty dispute. No no, you as stupid as you are would say hey but in France the population there (colonizers british) are not subjugated, they self govern and go to elections.
Reality is that Malvinas islands are a colony with no subjugated people, but that fact, do not makes them owners of rights to self determination on the islands.
Lesson 2: Definition of subjugate: to defeat and gain control of (someone or something) by the use of force : to conquer and gain the obedience of (a group of people, a country, etc.)
Lesson 3: Not Spain, Not the uk and not the US are members of the c24. Why is that if they are no more colonial powers?.
@87
Dec 11th, 2014 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Somebody ought to try to explain that to the UN, since the UN is almost exclusively concerned with what you have described as the first type of colonialism. What you describe as the second type of colonialism is the process whereby practically every state on the planet, and notably Argentina, has acquired at least part of its territory.
Moreover, the different cases are handled by different bodies. The first case is covered by the political structures of the UN, and the second by the ICJ. What Argentina is attempting to do is misrepresent a simple territorial dispute that falls under the purview of the ICJ as a case of colonialism falling under the political structures of the UN. As I've already pointed out this is an entirely self-defeating strategy since what Argentina seeks is diametrically opposed to the principles those structures are supposed to represent. But it's quite obvious that Argentina pursues this strategy because it has no legal case that would stand up at the ICJ and because it has failed militarily once already.
The only other alternative would be to attempt to reach some kind of accommodation with the islanders, but Argentina evidently prefers to alienate them at every possible opportunity instead.
One does have to wonder why Argentina has thus rejected every avenue that could conceivably give it what it wants?
87 Liberato
Dec 11th, 2014 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Her Majesty’s Government’s current policy towards the UN Decolonisation Committee
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/cmselect/cmfaff/writev/overseas/ot18.htm
What has the “Special Committee on Decolonization” done in the last 30 years ?
How many on list of Territories have been decolonized in the last 30 years ?
#85
Dec 11th, 2014 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The islanders are welcome here as always to wave a flag or do whatever they feel like”
You actually expect us to believe that? Mobs burning tyres when cruise ships try to berth at B.A,. tourist offices attacked. ? Documented and filmed burnings of the Union flag. Police action....not a lot ! the latest fiasco at Ushaia with a spontaneous attack on the BBC film crew. You are a pretty uncivilised bunch.
You seem to think that everyone else on this forum who disagrees with you is an IDIOT, STUPID and CRAZY. Have a look in the mirror, you might be talking about yourself.
All your arguments are based on the false assumption that the Falklands are Argentine territory. Further to that, where do you get the idea that S.Georgia and the sub Antarctic islands are also your territory and the surrounding seas and parts of Antarctica ?
Of course the Falklands were colonised. If settlers arrive on a piece of uninhabited land then they are colonists. If the land is held in title by the country from which they came, then they are legal colonists. This is the case in the Falklands. If you have a problem with this then seek a legal settlement disproving it.
“The same as the current argentine flag and nation do not represent the military junta”
No, BUT the people are the same who turned out in their tens of thousands to cheer in a patriotic fervour when the Falklands were invaded and captured and your present government are pushing this as their number 1 goal with lies and rhetoric..
#88: What Argentina is attempting to do?. You are wrong, Argentina do not manage the UNDC, nor the GA. And Islanders do not represent a people separated from the uk. Acomodation with islanders?, they will not negotiate sovereignty either, whats the point of talking to the colony?.
Dec 11th, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#89: This is hilarious, The non cooperation of the UK with the UN on the decolonization process, the historical british voting against almost all UN resolutions regarding colonialism, falls into the UN responsabilities for not having able to decolonize the 16 NSGT from 30 years ago?.
#90: Islanders had come here for turism, for residence, for work, etc. There was an islander that tried for Boca Junior soccer team, there was an islander that runned for office in a cordobean city, etc. About the burning of british flags, are freedom of the rest of the population. Or do you think that argentines could not express themselves so as to not offending the british turist?.
All your arguments are based on the false assumption that the Malvinas are british territory and that there is no sovereignty dispute at all. When the world community thinks the opposite recognizing the sovereignty dispute and the colonial situation in the islands. Your ally the USA for example, they do not recognize a british sovereignty territory, they recognize a de facto british government. Textually citing their official web.
We argentines are claiming sovereignty over Malvinas since the islands were invaded, not since 1982. So you are totally wrong.
@91
Dec 11th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's obvious that Argentina does not manage the GA. That is why Argentina has never managed to get anything passed there except completely anodyne statements calling for dialogue and peaceful settlement, which nobody could possibly object to, except of course Argentina itself, which started one war already and still refuses to speak to the people whose home it wishes to seize.
In this respect, recognizing the existence of a sovereignity dispute, and recognizing the validity of the Argentine claim, are not at all the same thing. The sovereignity dispute as such is rather hard to ignore, given the 1000 deaths it has caused already and Argentin'a constant whining, but there is not one UN resolution in 50+ years of trying that accepts the validity of Argentina's claim. Not a single one.
Meanwhile, having failed to contest British de facto sovereignity militarily, Argentina has also failed to contest de jure sovereignity before the only body that could legitimately pronounce upon it. Instead it tries to convince a decolonization committee that some unrecognized principle of colonial inheritance from a colonial power that was never in uncontested possession of the islands, that abandoned them before Argentina existed as a country, and that did not even recognize Argentina until after it had recognized British sovereignity, entitles Argentina to colonise the islands against the freely expressed wishes and universal human rights of the inhabitants. That's an extraordinary colonial mentality t0 be still parading around in the 21 st century.
Well said at 92,
Dec 11th, 2014 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I find this malvanista religion of wishing to impose Argentinian colonisation on the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands a truly disgusting notion in 2014.
I always thought an ARGIE POPE was inviting problems.
Dec 11th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now we have an argie boycotting the Dalai Lama because of the CHIN: they might make trouble for the RCC delusionists in China.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/11288342/Pope-Francis-snubs-the-Dalai-Lama-at-Nobel-Peace-Prize-event.html
I have news for the argie pope: the Chin are USING the RCC delusionists for just this sort of pressure play.
IF the Chinese delusionists of the RCC really believe in the mumbo jumbo surely they should not be afraid to stand up and be counted. So what if the Chin massacre some or all of them, they will be with god, won't they?
Is the argie Pope concerned it might all be flim-flam and the bible is nothing other than death, destruction, fearing the lord etc. just because a bunch of events '2000' years ago could not be understood, or those who DID understand it was all nonsense were ignored or, more usually, killed?
Why doesn’t the Pope visit his flock in China, or won’t the Chin let him in? Has he ever asked? Does anyone GAF?
The Dalai Lama must be a real powerful person because he is capable of shaking the Pope to his core and putting the frighteners on the Chin. What a great man: all he wants is PEACE.
@86 Hans
Dec 11th, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I'm not sure what on earth this is supposed to mean. Let's try it this way. Can you point to the existence, in any British BOT, of a subjugated colonial population yearning to be free?””
D'you really think it's fair to present such a conundrum to Liberato ??
The proof of the pudding is in his #87...unable to present a decent counter-argument, he tells you go and do some research....It's useless trying to dialogue with these Trolls.
#91
Dec 12th, 2014 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pointless having any sort of discussion with you about the Falklands,
You have been brought up to believe in Argentinian sovereignty.
From Argentina's point of view any discussions MUST result in the UK handing over the islands, From our point of view, why should WE do this when we are sure of our sovereignty.
You have yet to answer this one.
WHAT IS ARGENTINA'S BASIS FOR CLAIMING THE ISLAND OF S.GEORGIA , SUB ANTARCTIC ISLANDS, A LARGE CHUNK OF ANTARCTICA AND ALL THE SURROUNDING SEAS ?
All your fellow Trolls dodge this one !!!!!!!!!
The whole concept of a any 'dispute' is utterly ridiculous. In British eyes at least. As far as the UK is concerned, there is nothing to dispute. Nothing to discuss.
Dec 12th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Will Argentina ever understand this?
They are welcome expend as much energy, money and hot air as they wish.
It will never change a thing.
I pity them.
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