MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK ambassador underscores shared values and qualities of Royal and Chilean navies
UK ambassador in Chile Fiona Clouder underlined the values and qualities of the Royal Navy and Chilean Navy during a reception on HMS Dragon, which called at Valparaíso for the week long Exponaval 2014, considered the most important naval, maritime and ports' exhibition in the southern hemisphere. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesAnd so say all of us. well done the Royal Navy.Hip Hip Hooray, Hip Hip Hooray
Dec 06th, 2014 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's a wonderful relationship our two navies have. Long may it last.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Huzzah! The true alliance is safe and solid.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 04:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0We all understand local politics, and global agreements.
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Long may the Chilean lip-service to the Argentine Gov. continue!
More fool them! Silly Argies...
Arf!
:)
Was the argie “military” representative there or hiding under the surface in the harbour, just like the ships he has at his “command”?
Dec 06th, 2014 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently he was caught making notes on his shirt sleeves. He was heard asking the Captain of the T45 “ How do you manage to keep it afloat for so long ”
Dec 06th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent sentiments from all, BUT..........for how long with Bachelet in power? I don't trust her. Although it's good to see that she isn't, apparently, as cowardly as Mujica. But then she did have to consult argieland. Curious that one country has to consult another rather than a pan-continental body. Who governs Chile? Bachelet or Kirchner? The Chilean navy is nearly twice the size of the argie rowboat flotilla. What are the argies going to do. If the Chilean navy really had the same values as the RN it would sail around and sink the rowboats. Such a wonderful thing the argie navy. Surface vessels that act as submarines. Submarines that can't. There's a joke on Wikipedia about the argie 'navy'. It refers to a 'fleet'. How can you have a 'fleet' of 41 vessels when at least 14 can't be used? A 'fleet' of 27? Compared to Chile's 71? The Royal Navy's 77? No doubt looks good in a paddling pool. Advice for Chile? From Arica to Buenos Aires, it's yours if you want it! Maybe the RN will supply YOU. Underway or in the British Falkland Islands!
Dec 06th, 2014 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 06.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You may be a bastard, but you clearly don't zip into the average cool aid & wishful thinking of your compatriots where.
Chile is kind of like Israel, they have no strategic depth so they have to be prepared at all times for a simultaneous war with Peru, Bolivia and Argentina. Argentina on the other hand, does have strategic depth to fall back on. As it currently stands Chile is far more powerful than its neighbours, so they dont need to curb to Britain in political terms and gain a bad reputation. Argentina can easily play the role Venezuela played with Colombia in 2008 and alienate them politically in the continent.
Give the Chileans navy savvy, take them to your universities give them aid and you will get nothing out of them. It will only change when Argentina is far more powerful than Chile
“... when Argentina is far more powerful than Chile. ..”
Dec 06th, 2014 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think that is unlikely for a long time. A very long time. I expect Chile is rather pleased about the UK blocking the Gripen deal.
@ 7 CabezaDura2
Dec 06th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ It will only change when Argentina is far more powerful than Chile”
En sus sueños!
8&9
Dec 06th, 2014 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So why is your gov't bribing into alliances that are not so??
@ 10 CabezaDura2
Dec 06th, 2014 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina, until the poison that is Peronism is TOTALLY expunged from the country, can never expect the close friendship of Britain or any other western country because they cannot be trusted.
Chile is far more westernised than TDC and given Britain needs diplomatic representation in SA, who better?
Chile is prepared at all times for simultaneously and soundly defeating Peru, Bolivia and Argentina.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With all due respect, Argentina pathetically has absolutely no strategic depth to fall back on. None!
I vividly remember in naval school, that we were very intimidated by the Argentine Navy and what was its remarkable Air Force. Thank God for Baroness Thatcher and her vision. We repaid the debt, and our alliance has remained incredibly strong.
With the exception of Brazil, I totally agree “Chile is far more powerful than its neighbors” and although we are not anywhere close to the high level of the Israeli army and air force, Chile is highly regarded.
I have close cordial relations with two retired Argentine Naval officers whom I consider dear friends. Their disgust of the sad state of their country says it all.
12... Just look at the map, compare the size of Argentina and Chile, compare populations.... Chile may gain fast gains in Patagonia if a war broke out. But it will become incresingly difficult for containing a country of +40 million people with the extention it has and chilean army extending its operations and forces over the Andes, while at the same time containing Bolivia and Peru. It would be like invading Russia. Argentina may need to 2 decades of efficient military spending to catch up with Chile, but once it does Argentina will be able to count with Bolivia and Peru, its check mate Santiago there.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“UK ambassador underscores shared values and qualities of Royal and Chilean navies”
Dec 06th, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Tonight we are on a beautiful ship, sleek in design, advanced in its technology. But what struck me are also the values of her crew - commitment, courage, discipline, respect, integrity and loyalty.
Qualities also of the Chilean Navy.
And so tonight, I hope that all of us will join in thanking the Chilean Navy for welcoming us to Exponaval, and in celebrating all those who serve the sea”.
Says it all really doesn't it people?
So much win.
May this friendship and co-operation long continue.
@ 13 CabezaDura2
Dec 06th, 2014 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I disagree with your synopsis of what is likely the scenario in the two decades you claim TDC would need to assume military superiority in the area.
You seem to have forgotten that you would need to train at least 200,000 fighting men, not an inconsequential pack of undisciplined thugs as now. This takes time, money, political will AND ABILITY.
Plus, by that time the whole country will be bullshitting itself into thinking that it stands a chance in taking Chile except for one thing. When the Junta were planning the Falklands it was seen in many areas to be a precursor for “Chile next”, why can’t it be the Falklands next?
That alone, nevermind that in 20 years time our relationship with Chile will be even better, would put Britain in the line with our Chilean comrades. Plus, with BOTH of us to engage, Chele from the west and Britain from the east hammering two colours of shit out of BsAs, etc. let me ask YOU a question: WTF do you do then?
15, You cant deny the fact that Chile is a very crappy country to defend. From Argentina you can easily send a main spear head over the Andes and cut the country in half as we have in the past when we send over are forces to destroy the Royalists over Mendoza.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chile has to defend those mountain passes or if not they are doomed. Chile is obliged -like Israel was in 1967- to bomb and attack on three fronts simultaneously at once.
And like it or not Chile is not actively involved in any operation in the middle east, like AUS & NZ are. At least playing a minor role none of that, the only proven military power in the whole continent is brave Colombia. The rest is all crap that like to talk to much. You may think highly of them Chile, but they are just latin and the command structure is latin as well just as Argentina's was in 1982. In fact Sohr a Chilean military analyst and journalist that worked for 7 Dias after the war in 1982, recently said that Chile military had found themselves in the same situation confronting a NATO power, their command structure would have fallen in exactly the same errors that the Argentines did in the islands. People seem to forget we haven't Chile perform at war for over a century.
And currently Argentina has round about 40.000 regulars, Chile has a couple k more than Argentina has. Argentina only has to be in the same terms of balance with Chile, it doesn't need to be overwhelmingly stronger.
CD2 you just demonstrated clearly why Chile should remain strong, befriend strong countries outside SA and never trust Argentina. I stood in Trafalgar Square in 1972, Chile still has many friends in Britain. The corrupt dictatorship over the Andes is nothing to admire. It may last, but its a clear serial failure and there seems to be nothing to replace it thats any better.
Dec 06th, 2014 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 017. Kind of retracts to my initial point that Chile will only openly side with the UK when the balance of power has shifted to ARG-BOLIVIA-PERU
Dec 06th, 2014 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It will only change when Argentina is far more powerful than Chile”
@ 18 CabezaDura2
Dec 07th, 2014 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your point about “haven't fought a war in 100 years” is, frankly, irrelevant. If the Chilean forces have the 20 years YOU think the argies will need to be a fighting force (that still makes me PMSL) then they can learn new strategies.
Anyway, HOW is TDC going to be anywhere but further down the sewer in 20 years?
Answer that one convincingly and you MIGHT have a point.
Start with getting rid of 15M Peronistas, the mafia and the drug gangs infesting your country.
@7. Oh dear, you do like to 'spin' things, don't you? I wonder about you comparing Chile to Israel. Is that a good idea? In 1948, Israel was attacked by the combined armies of Egypt, Jordan and Syria. Plus expeditionary forces from Iraq. There were also 'elements' from Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and Morocco. And some of the so-called 'palestinians'. That's nine states and some terrorists. Who won? Should I wait for you to look it up or should I just tell you that it was Israel. Incidentally, that war was already underway before Israel established an air force, a navy and a tank battalion. If Chile could do only half as well as Israel, it has nothing to fear. Especially, if it makes a request for assistance, the UK and USA will be there in no time. And Chile has a special advantage. It knows that argieland can be beaten quite easily. I also wonder how you think that alienating Chile in the continent will be of benefit? Chile looks to the world. Argieland stares up its own arse. And you say that argieland has 'strategic depth'. What's that? A 'navy' that sinks? An air force whose aircraft are unsafe? An army composed of the equivalent of minis? Be sensible. Argieland has no MBTs. I know the stats say it has 348, but it doesn't really. A British Challenger 2 will have a choice. Shoot them or crush them.
Dec 07th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@10. Whose government? Have 'we' got the money to 'bribe'?
@13. Fantastic. Size and population. On the other hand, Chilean subs can launch Exocets. And, with everything else, it would probably be difficult for Chile to miss. And will the RN and USN be lying off the eastern coast launching Tomahawks?
@16. Chile currently has about 10,000 more armed forces personnel than argieland. 10,000. The same number that the UK sent to the Falklands in '82. Who killed or captured 2,000 more than their total strength. Get it? Size and population are irrelevant. Britain had at least another 110,000 it could have sent.
@18. Argieland is just a yapping mongrel pup!
18. Just like the OPEC countries, Chile depends on copper. Chile is not exempt of following the populist & socialist road to the gutter. Argentina has everything structural in place to become a superpower again.
Dec 07th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Argentina has peronism and massive negative cultural factors. But, I think Argentina on the other side is running out of sources to mantain its socialist and peronist structure, when that implodes Argentina will be forced to abolish grand portions of its governments spendings
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByA-HYaIYAAGkg8.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByA-HYaIYAAGkg8.jpg:large
Remember, IF the financial markets decide to turn their backs on Argentina and not loan another spending cycle. Argentina will be unstable for a couple of years, but then it will literally skyrocket economically in a decade.
Peru is really no longer a credible threat. The only thing more pathetic than Argentina's military threat, that of Bolivia's...
Dec 07th, 2014 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In every Chilean military defense strategy since 1984, the focus of the Army, Navy and Airforce, there has never been a scenario where Chile would attack first. Our counterattacks would be generally to decimate the Argentina military infrastructure, with minimal civilian losses. The idea would be to thoroughly destroy the country's ability to wage war. Ports, airfields, power stations, bridges, command centers and of course military hardware would be decimated within the first 48 hours. The passes in the Andes and the Magellan Straight would be closed. We would not count on any public support from the Americans or for that matter from the UK, but the majority of our intelligence sources would be a different matter. Ricardo Lagos, one of Chile's former socialist presidents, was visionary in establishing strong ties with several other intelligence agencies that would gleefully contribute as well. Russia, France, China... even Italy.
The fact is that we don't want Argentina to economically collapse, as it would dramatically affect Chile's as well. Many countries would be very unhappy with trade disruption and would take substantial action to quell the dispute.
@ 22 Chicureo
Dec 07th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To decimate (reduce by 1/10) is insufficient to ensure stopping an offensive.
Obliteration on the other hand is.
The Romans decimated their own soldiers who had failed in battle and used the nine soldiers next to the one selected to do the deed by clubbing him to death.
The argies will never have a massive, effective force, as long as peronism rules, they are frightened of being turned on, not without just reason.
#23 Chris R
Dec 07th, 2014 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First I respect you knowledgable views, especially regarding defense, but please consider that I may have experience in this analysis.
Argentina is a shadow of it's once feared military capability. In the late seventies, they actually were operating a carrier, a heavy cruiser, and their Air Force was truly remarkable. (Their tanks and canons have always been a disgrace, but that's another discussion.)
They also had tremendous pride and spirit. THAT is now gone. Strategic attacks on their weak infrastructure, including communications, and your see the whole war effort collapse like a house of cards.
It would be easy to nearly destroy them completely, but then they'd feel the same resentment that we currently have with Peru. An old CO once told me that it would be far better to humiliate our Andean neighbor than to anger it. We do not desire them to plot vengeance, we truly want peace. As Ronald Reagan once coined: “peace through strength”.
@ 24 Chicureo
Dec 07th, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have never, ever, doubted your experience and have always read your posts and analysed them as far as I could given my very limited experience in SA.
Which is why I was confused when reading your point @ 22 and the complete destruction of the Argentine infrastructure, something I think will happen if these stupid, stupid, people keep going down the road of military action against the Falklands. Why not obliterate their (new found) military forces.
I accept your point about Peru, but surely humiliation is sure to turn to anger at being humiliated when discussing Argentina, they are so “precious” after all? Why leave them with anything, while you are at it?
A lot of these idiots still think they nearly won in 1982 and some are convinced that even now it’s not too late.
As a nation they are not to be trusted and I cannot see any change for the better any time soon.
UK confirms Mk 41 VLS selection for Type 26
Dec 07th, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.janes.com/article/46719/uk-confirms-mk-41-vls-selection-for-type-26
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New Royal Navy base to be built in Bahrain in landmark deal
http://www.janes.com/article/46719/uk-confirms-mk-41-vls-selection-for-type-26
Will eventually service , type 45, mine sweepers , aircraft carriers ,
And submarines,
Welcome back to the futures past,
And woo, all those who have been abusive to us..
.
ChrisR
Dec 08th, 2014 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for your kind words. I'm nothing more than one of those frustrated reservists that understands the importance of dress whites.
An aggressive and well armed neighbor is certainly not desirible, but neither is an angry and vengeful one either. It would be nice if they could at least float a decent icebreaker and create a working air/sea rescue group to support the other nations servicing reasearch bases, as well as help the commercial traffic.
Also, you cannot imagine how tiring it is to review their Intel. All they do is complain, blame their problems in others and really exaggerate their readiness.
Briton, thanks for the links. Bravo!
@ 27 Chicureo
Dec 08th, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Also, you cannot imagine how tiring it is to review their Intel. All they do is complain, blame their problems in others and really exaggerate their readiness.”
I suspect it was always thus and will always be the case. :o)
@Chicureo
Dec 08th, 2014 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How can you be so childish? Have you been reading your comments posted?
“Argentina is a shadow of it's once feared military capability”..that's true but you know what? Argentina can cause Chile more harm with just a couple of diplomatic decisions than recovering its military capability.
Just think the consecuencies of closing the international passes in the shared border. All the goods going to Brazil, Latam or to Europe through the Atlantic Ocean will have to be send out of Chile up to the north.
In addition. whith just one single telephone call Bolivia, who (by the way) are not very friends of yours, will do the very same...so then pray that Peru, who (by the way) are not very friends of yours...would not close its border.....have you been thinking about the economic consecuencies of such a simple decision?...the logistic extra-cost chilean menufacturers will have to incurr? Do you think the UK government will help chilean manufacturers to pay the “extra costs”? Do you think the UK garrison in the Island will be usefull? Do you think the islanders will send money to share the “extra costs”?
Chicureao....Grow up !!!...times have changed....
In addition, due to its large extension, Argentina can cause more harm to the FI in a decade than Galtieri in 1982...just blocking all connection to the islands and the continent....and the garrison, the typhoons, the nuclear submarines, will be useless as well...
Do you think the UK will pay for a long trip from the FI to London and back to Chile? Do you think the UK government will pay for your “long trip” back home?...
Chicureao....Grow up !!!...times have changed....it's almost 2015... now money rules...
You have the luck that CFK is just a poor corrupt and mediocre goverment that doesn't care anything..all she want is to steal more money... take advantage of her !!!..she won't last forever...
@39 pgerman
Dec 08th, 2014 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you read the comment/rubbish you just posted?
@16 CD
Dec 08th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A couple of points:
1) Having the driest desert in the world to the north and the second highest mountain range in the world to the east has it's defensive advantages.
2) The Chilean army has had reasonable covert involvement in conflicts over the years. The professionalism and capability is well known. Hence in the Iraq / Afghan wars, US private security contractors like Blackwater, quickly came calling to tempt our service personnel, particularly the special forces. They were the only Latin American mercenaries to be paid top dollar rates ($750 to $1000 / day). You mention AUS & NZ in the middle east. The Australian embassy in Baghdad was guarded by a contingent of 60 Chileans (low paid non specialists).
3) You say “Argentina only has to be in the same terms of balance with Chile, it doesn't need to be overwhelmingly stronger”. You appear to be assuming that Chile has some interest in invading Argentina. This has never been the case. Our military capability is intended to be dissuasive.
@29 pgerman
Chicureo was clearly talking about the hypothetical scenario of an armed conflict. Obviously, the closing of borders would happen long before the hypothetical conflict escalated to war, so I am not sure what your point is.
But even on the topic of closing borders, without hard numbers, I would say that 95% of our exports go straight out to sea from our ports. Access to the Pacific is far more important to Argentina than Access to the Atlantic is to Chile.
You say “due to its large extension, Argentina can cause more harm to the FI in a decade than Galtieri in 1982”
This is fanciful. A blockade needs military force to held in place. Show me one case in history where a nation without a navy has successfully blockaded an island.
@31
Dec 08th, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A blokade in this case would need almost no Navy, just closing ports, air space ( a few medium interceptors) and some preasure over Chile, Uruguay, Peru and Bolivia...and that is it...done.
For sure most of the chilean exportations are sea freight but think about the hipotetical consecuencies for Chile of having the continental and terrestrial connections closed. This is one of the reasons why Chile and Argentina don't want to have “issues” among them.
One of the advantages of having a territorial extension such as the argentinean (or de Canadian or the Australian) is that the distances help you in this case.
All this would be a peacefull policy and nobody, not even the UN, could say a word to Argentina. Chicureo remains stuck in old times.
Britain Beefs Up Military Might In Bahrain
Dec 08th, 2014 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK's naval presence on the strategically-important Gulf nation is to be expanded to include a forward operating base
http://news.sky.com/story/1386798/britain-beefs-up-military-might-in-bahrain?DCMP=AFC-85386&affiliate=true
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Will Britain's new base in Bahrain make any difference
http://news.sky.com/story/1386798/britain-beefs-up-military-might-in-bahrain?DCMP=AFC-85386&affiliate=true
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Foreign Secretary hails £15million port expansion in Bahrain that will enable Royal Navy to send bigger ships to the Gulf
http://news.sky.com/story/1386798/britain-beefs-up-military-might-in-bahrain?DCMP=AFC-85386&affiliate=true
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3 other bases may well be built, either in Jordan , Oman , UAE , and or Saudi Arabia,
To accommodate the British army and the RAF , on training duties.
So it is said.
Perhaps the Falklands could operate a royal navy out station,
Either way,
Im surprised we have not heard a squeak out of CFK..
.
@pgerman
Dec 08th, 2014 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the FI:
I don't think you would ever see the willingness in Chile and Uruguay that would be required to blockage the FI. The resolve of the UK to supply the FI would be far greater than the compliance of Argentina's neighbours.
As you mentioned above, “now money rules” - don't you think the city of London, if required, could hurt Argentina more than Argentina can hurt the FI? Just one example that comes to mind is the recent line of credit the China extended to Argentina ... subject to English law.
On Chile:
Our borders extend both further north and south than yours so Argentina's easiest routes to the worlds biggest and fastest growing markets will always depend on Chile.
As for Argentina being able to get other countries to cut off Chile - ???!. I doubt Argentina has much influence in Lima. Argentina supplying weapons to Ecuador probably opened Peru's eyes to the depth of solidarity it shares with Argentina. On the other hand, every day we are more integrated with Peru. Recently we are de-mining our border, a sign of the increased confidence between our countries. And Bolivia .... well they import more from Chile than any other country. They would hurt if they closed off their land border with Chile.
You say we are lucky that “CFK is just a poor corrupt and mediocre goverment that doesn't care anything”, I agree with your opinion of CFK, but I would say we are lucky that we have strong institutions and adopted sound economic policy in 1985.
You are unlucky that not only is CFK corrupt and mediocre, but every government you have had in your lifetime has been corrupt and mediocre. The fact there is a British type-45 destroyer in Valpo and a booming FI economy is testament to the flawless game played by the UK since 1982 and the disaster that Argie foreign policy has been.
Condorito,
Dec 08th, 2014 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Spot on”
Speaking of absolute ignorance... Even Bolivia, land of Indians, would never close their border as they need their rail link (provided by Chile) to access the Pacific. Argentina, needs the Straight of Magellan desperately (which is completely controlled by Chile) to sell their soya and wheat. Chile ships almost all its European exports via the Panama Canal.
Golly gee, you want to cut off Chile's trade access to Brazil, and vice a versa... PLEASE, it will be sooo entertaining to see the reaction in Brasilia...
Someone mentioned that I still remain in the past, but if that's true, so does my current overweight, socialist, atheist and hard headed President Ok, I'm certainly not handsome and also I'm a bit hard head headed as well) who obviously does not reflect my political beliefs (for the record I belong to the RN), but she's absolutely in agreement with supporting our armed forces as well as our defense strategy. (By the way she is a very proud godmother of one of our Scorpène-class submarines. ...Even the Americans are in awe of its threat... as its nearly undetectable.)
By the way, I no longer read the daily intercepts, but instead the weekly summaries. Their fleet is basically un-operational, which is a very grave concern regarding joint cooperative rescue operations. (The USN won't even consider them anymore.)
Anyway my life is good, I'm currently enjoying a Reserva Casillero del Diablo Carmenere 2013 with a very fresh Marraqueta (.205 kg at 221 Pesos) and waiting for the summer holiday sunset upon my beloved Andes.
I personally think that the days of invasion are now gone, but with the same thinking of peaceful Switzerland, we remain ready to defend our country.
31. Condorito.
Dec 09th, 2014 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 01) Its a very crappy country to defend, there is very little you cand do against columns cutting your country in half or more fractions moving over the Andes from the West.
Being a desert it is likely that armoured battles would rage in the first hours of a declared war in the Atacama. Remember we can also accept the Bolivian army to bypass the desert over our side of the mountains and fall down over you while leaving the Peruvians to launch their own air-naval campaign.
Argentina just needs a good navy to match with the Chileans. Plus getting its air force in order.
2)You say that private security agencies employ chileans.... it's not the point. The only way to see if the military forces are cohesive is in an open war. Argentina learned this all to well in 1982. Lami Dozo almost abandoned the war as the Navy would not go out and fight the UK Task Force. They where basically sitting at Comodoro Rivadavia since the Belgrano, the infantry was dismantling itself out of hunger and cold and was completely static in their defensive positions. Lami Dozo considered that only the air force was fighting the war.
3) It's just a hypothetical case. It doesn't matter who fires the first shot, or at least its not my point, but we all agree that Chile has to go into the offensive pretty fast like Israel in 1967. By Argentina being at balance with Chile, Bolivia and Peru can unlevel things from the north and the North East
@ Chicureo,
Dec 09th, 2014 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Condorito is right, both countries need each other despite the “bothering” presence of the UK in the near area. That's the reason why they, Argentina and Chile, made effords to close and settle some small border discrepancies to be realived . This was exactly my ponit.
Do you think that the FI is more important for Chile than a good relationship with Argentina? Do you really think so?
By the way....do you think Argentina trade is made through “argentine flag” ships? Do you really thinl so??? Would the chilean navy be able to stop chinese flaged ships? ha ha ha ha !!!!
In the meanwhile, Chicureo, keep on dreaming with weapons, invassions and battle fields...your time has gone.....for ever......it's money time...
@ 36 CabezaDura2
Dec 09th, 2014 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am beginning to suspect you are unwell as it’s the only answer to the utter bollocks you have been posting the last 2 or 3 months.
Let us dissemble this little nugget:
“Argentina just needs a good navy to match with the Chileans. Plus getting its air force in order.”
You don’t HAVE a working navy, face it.
You don’t HAVE an air force either.
So what do you have? SOME infantry (40k is it?) with outdated personal weapons and very little ammunition, assuming what you have will go bang when one of your idiots pulls the trigger.
Shit tanks: what a fucking joke they are, did you see the latest Armed Forces Day photographs? I think the plastic tank from my kids Action Man would be almost as effective.
Your field pieces are reasonable BUT the ammunition is out of use dated (your own gov data). Ever seen a film on a breech explosion on a 105mm? You wouldn’t want to be anywhere near that.
So basically you are shit out of luck.
AND, never forget that the Brits look after their friends and our armed forces have modern equipment that does go bang, doesn’t have breech explosions and we are getting our aircraft carriers soon once the yanks can sort out the F35.
Keep deluding yourself.
Children: Most vessels that transit the Magellan Straight are under the flags of Liberia and Panama. China and Chile have exceptional diplomatic relations and is Chile's largest trade partner. Your ignorance about Bolivia's ability to capture a part of the Atacama is hilarious...
Dec 09th, 2014 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 038. But I know that you stupid old fart... yes Argentine armed forces are petty weak. So?? Chile needed 20 decades of spending to be over Argentina in terms of capacity. Chile has more or less the same GDP than Argentina. Argentina is at least still training its personal.
Dec 09th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Potentially we could easily wipe the floor with the chileans. You need to take the medications.
39.
“Your ignorance about Bolivia's ability to capture a part of the Atacama is hilarious...” Where did I say that ???
@ 40 CabezaDura2
Dec 09th, 2014 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Chile needed 20 decades of spending to be over Argentina in terms of capacity.”
“200 years!”
Has Argentina been Argentina for 200 years (including the fabled “conquest of the poor bastards who lived in a desert”)?
Ah! The famous, mythical “potentially” raises its ugly head again!
I bet the Junta said that about the 1982 war among all the other lies they told.
No, too thin by a long way.
Errrrr mmmm whatever..
Dec 09th, 2014 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina during the cold war was about 5% of GDP in defence and we could have destroyed Chile if we had really pushed for it.
Argentina was in the 90s about 1% of GDP and during the Ks its 0,8% of GDP. Of that 80% is to pay for salaries of the armed forces. So the troops are there. The equipment, hardware, munition, warships, planes, tanks are not, but we can get there pretty more fast than you realise.
Chile is only 2,6% and now its gone down to 2,1%
@39
Dec 10th, 2014 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0So, based on your sayings. Do you think Chila can interrupt argentine exportations to China and cause the soy bean ton price skyrocket whitout any action of China?
Stay alert, don't rest, do not relax !!!....argentine soldiers crossed the border and they are comming....they are going directly to you home....
@ 43 p german
Dec 10th, 2014 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0ANY argie soldiers who cross the border into Chile will immediately throw down their rusty rifles and crap ammunition and seek political asylum.
YOU would, if you were in their position.
Tell me, how is Canada or wherever you are hiding nowadays?
I'm just making fun of 'chicureo” who seems to live in the past..dreaming with invassions and armies in front of his home....
Dec 10th, 2014 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm still in Canada, in Toronto right now. Not very cold TG...nice place.
I like canadian people...I saw four II WW yellow planes flying over Toronto during the Remembrance Day. Gaiters in the corners...I could not avoid thinking about the fallen pleople during the FI war...some old women cried a little bit.....sad but nice at the very same time.
From Jane's defence weekly :
Dec 12th, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has proposed an ARS50.3 billion (USD5.9 billion) budget to fund its armed forces in 2015.
While the budget includes funding for 102,403 air force, army, and naval personnel, capital investments comprise only ARS1.1 billion (USD138 million), with most of the force modernisation spending geared towards upgrades and mid-life update programmes.
The budget funds 241 military personnel for the Estado Mayor Conjunto de las Fuerzas Armadas (the Armed Forces Joint General Staff).
The Argentine Army will receive funding for 54,974 personnel, to establish Unidades Militares de Respuesta a la Emergencia (UMRE - Emergency Response Military Units), to procure 4x4 and 4x2 light vehicles, to continue modernising the TAM Main battle tank, and to upgrade the UH-1H Iroquois to Huey II standard.
You can summarise it thus :
U$S 5Bn is a trifling amount
It's being spent on patching existing kit such as 50 yr old UH1 helicopters
Most of the Army's budget is targeted towards humanitarian missions .
In other words , Argentina are not and will not be a credible threat to anyone in the foreseeable future .
In fact , the Mapuches are counterattacking after 150 years !
Extractive, forestry, and state assets face growing risk of low-scale attacks by indigenous groups in southern Argentina
IHS Jane's Country Risk Daily Report
13 November 2014
EVENT
A previously unknown Mapuche indigenous group calling itself Ancestral Mapuche Resistance (Resistencia Ancestral Mapuche: RAM) released a public statement on 11 November declaring its existence and intent to regain control of Mapuche ancestral land in Argentina and Chile.
In the communiqué, the RAM claimed responsibility for a series of attacks in the last two years in the southern provinces of Rio Negro and Chubut. These included an arson attack against a holiday chalet near the tourist city of San Carlos de Bariloche, Neuquén province; small-scale vandalism against the Chilean consulate in the same c
HA, HA, HA, HA.
Dec 12th, 2014 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THE LUNATIC IS UNDER ATTACK!
Great news.
Sounds a bit like the bumbling Welsh Nationalists though who used to set fire to holiday homes in N. Wales until they ran out of matches and didn't have the money to buy another box.
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