MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
French team to investigate choppers' collision in Argentina; “immense sadness”, said president Hollande
A manslaughter investigation into the helicopter crash in La Rioja province that killed eight French nationals and two Argentines was opened on Tuesday in Paris, Le Monde reported. Two experts from France's crash investigation agency (BEA) were travelling to Argentina. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesA sad event for all concerned.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously, due to recent events in Argentina, it is highly necessary to send in French Invistigators.
I wish them luck.
It sounds quite similar to that Italian cruise line captain sailing too close to the rocks. Latin bravado before safety I expect.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0I feel sadness at the loss of these great athletes, also for the pain their families must suffer, but I do expect the fault lies with the 'machismo' of the ARGENTINE pilots...
Mar 11th, 2015 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pilots fault..?? I read the first helicopter stalled and the second didn't have time to avoid colliding with it...
Mar 11th, 2015 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2, 3
Mar 11th, 2015 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And RIGHT ON CUE (as always) KARMA delivers yet again:
http://news.yahoo.com/7-marines-4-soldiers-missing-helicopter-crashes-084307801.html
EVERY F---KING TIME this pathetic scumbag Anglos insult Argentina about a train accident, there is a train accident in their dirty stomping grounds! Every time they insult Argentina about some flood, THEY suffer a flood! Every time some disease hits Argentina, they get hit by one worse and yet more strange!
These f--kers don't seem to learn that Karma is indeed a Boy!
@5
Mar 11th, 2015 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Calm down dear, everyone and their dog knows Karmo is masculine and Karma is feminine. “ O” is masculine “ A ” is feminine, but in ENGLISH it is not. Karma is neuter
@5. Sticking with the actual article, it's clear that no-one should consider using anything mechanical in argieland. Why don't argies stick with things they can cope with? Donkeys for transport and 'government'. Pigs for taxmen. Dogs for cops. Slugs for judges. A monkey for president. Sorry, you've already got one. Crossed with a snake!
Mar 11th, 2015 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“In a competitive beverage industry, no one is drinking this low quality wine,” Perez, of the ruling party alliance, said. “It’s a structural problem that they’re making wine that no one wants.”
Mar 11th, 2015 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina’s most successful exports from bold Malbec reds to sparkling wines are doing well, while cheaper wines are competing with flavored water and sodas leading to a drop in consumption, Perez said. Of 1 billion liters of wine produced in Argentina last year, 70 percent was of low quality which is hard to export and is building up in stockpiles. The province of Mendoza is the fourth-biggest individual owner of wine stocks in the country, Perez said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-11/argentina-s-mendoza-must-change-bulk-wine-production-perez-says
Rut Ro
@8
Mar 11th, 2015 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Farmers are back on the highways....Cool, time for some action.
latin bravado...
Mar 11th, 2015 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0machismo of argentine pilots...
it seems these brainless bennys already know the cause of the accident.
they have never seen a chopper in their frigging lives, but they know the cause of an accidents between 2 choppers in a place they didn't have the slightest clue that existed.
as for terms like “sad event”, “sadness”, and stuff, you can save them.
everybody knows you do not give a shite for any fatal accident that occurs in argentina.
9. Yeah but they need to stop shipping perishables to the large cities or nobody will notice.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Doesn't really matter anyway with SOY down 18% yoy most of those farmers will be out of business next year.
11.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Milk, cattle & grain till friday. SRA, Coninagro, CRA joined in. The FAA leadership has got to many of its leaders in politics in the opposition parties, they dont wanna look bad to the city folk
12. Its so inscestous there. I think this will be quickly forgotten like the umpteenth other protests.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Peronistas only understand being the aggressor or the victim. In my experience you need to be extremely aggressive with negotiations. These 1/2 assed measures don't end up doing anything.
I agree. We need to get a federal farming party. The problem is that FAA is ideologically left wing, and they seem to talk as if they have just come down from the boats from Italy.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having 77 different brands and types of Peronism isn't doing anyone any favors. Its just a joke and a sad one at that.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're in for more of the same, a hefty devaluation must happen right after the elections, the new gov't will announce that every single gov't and quasi gov't entity is bankrupt, inflation that was somewhat brought under control by that last BCRA head has been blown out of the water by this current idiot and when will you see this massive Tsunami of inflation...right after the next elections.
I pity whomever takes the reigns of the gov't next year.
It is going to be a super scary time to live in Argentina.
Worse than anyone alive has ever experienced.
This is the calm before the storm.
15
Mar 11th, 2015 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's it to you Yank...?
Mind your own business....so you used to live there for a while...I lived in Germany for a while, so what...
Unless the 'black boxes' have read a fault condition then it is very doubtful if they will hold the answer to this crash.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From the film I could not see a stall condition on either machine although a 'jack stall' is not readily identified but ends up with the same result: total lack of control stick movement due to the 'jack' condition.
This is what was thought to have killed Colin McRae and his three passengers when his French made Squirrel helicopter (known for a tendency to jack stall) hit a hillside after a series of high G turns and dives. It still comes down to pilot error: the high G action should have been avoided.
U$D 100 against a new argie 50 Pesos note that the French decide the pilot(s) were at fault, assuming the local government let them do their job and not hide things as per Nisman.
WTF did the French not take their own helicopters and fully trained French pilots.
At least that's one of the Malvinas veterans less to cause further trouble.
Would anybody on here have flown with this character knowing his background? NO, I didn't think so.
I suppose the french were told that if filming in Argentina they would require Argie pilots as they would want the Foreign currency and why not?
Mar 11th, 2015 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 016. I've asked you a bunch of times what's your relationship to Argentina or the Falklands and you've never answered.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm pretty sure I know why you post here under than name but I'd love for you to state it publicly.
I guess I got under your skin today.
So my day is complete.
and its gorgeous here so I'm going shopping.
I await your reply.
@ 16
Mar 11th, 2015 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyLFrxmcQYU
;)
Britworker & ilsen: British machismo in the British military was quite evident during the Malvinas War and this resulted in the unnecessary loss of British lives on 8 June off Port Pleasant. If I remember well a major of the Royal Marines and a Welsh major got into a ridiculous argument about who had more authority when it came to deciding if the troops aboard the Sir Galahad should be taken ashore or not. Since both me were too pompous to let the junior ranks decide or radio and let the higher command know what was happening, some 60 British troops were killed and another 200 wounded by aerial bombs.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Okay remember me telling everyone my constant problems with electricity in BA?
Mar 11th, 2015 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the likes of Toby and the other Rgidiots told me what I said was impossible and I was a liar blah blah blah...
Take a look at the lamp on the 2nd video.
http://tn.com.ar/sociedad/energia-electrica-al-limite-estos-son-los-reclamos-que-llegaron-a-tn-y-la-gente_576197
That happened all the time, I spent U$1000s replacing my burned out electronics.
U$1000s
The drought in Brazil is causing some of the problems but its mostly that they been trying to hold everything together with spit and twine and its reached its limit.
I couldn't be happier.
BsAs Herald: the bodies have been removed to the local hospital, the morgue has lost refrigeration.
Mar 11th, 2015 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a bunch of wankers the argies are.
Where is the Catscan Polly?
is this the accident where two helicopters are flying too close toe ach other, and then one flies striaght into the other one?
Mar 11th, 2015 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or is this a different “accident”??
(i only ask as theres a video that shows the above, rather than the wishful thinking of some Malvos here who, no doubt, will put the blame on the passenger as they are Euros...)
Glad the French are sending in a team - no way anybody can trust anything coming from an Argentine investigation... either that or CFK would just have the investigator shot in the back of the head and call it a suicide....
----
at least the on pilot was actually old enough to be in the Falklands war... which makes a considerable change from most Argentine “war veterans”....
@21
Mar 11th, 2015 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for the completely irrelevant sermon there Alberto. It is clear now why Cristina uses British jets and British pilots when she takes a foreign excursion. It is very sad that the French didn't follow suit.
Britworker: Yes those same British pilots like the Sea Harrier pilots from 801 Squadron (Lieutenant Alan Curtis and Lieutenant
Mar 11th, 2015 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commander John Eyton-Jones) that crashed into each other in mid-flight on 6 May 1982, or that Sea King crew from 846 Squadron that flew directly into a large flock of Albatrosses on 19 May 1982 killing the 18 SAS men aboard along with the helicopter crew? No thank you, I'd rather fly with the more competent Argentine pilots when taking into account all the British fighter and helicopter pilot own goals in the Malvinas War.
@26
Mar 11th, 2015 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you comparing present day Argentina to a war zone?
your great leader thinks different.
http://www.france24.com/en/20130108-argentina-cristina-kirchner-british-plane-debt-seizure/
http://www.france24.com/en/20130108-argentina-cristina-kirchner-british-plane-debt-seizure/
Another proven case of British machismo in the Malvinas War, is the 3 Para suicidal attack on Mount Longdon. I mean no softening up bombardment like the devastating fire unleashed on Mount Harriet on the afternoon of 11 June? Could this be because the 3 Para CO, He Pike, was fed lies about the quality of the opposition?, that the 3 Para patrols lied about being able to repeatedly get on top of Mount Longdon without being seen? and kill and easily escape whenever contested? Private Tulima of the 10th Engineer Company platoon present on Mount Longdon, is the only Argentine killed in the week-and-a-half before the Battle of Mount Longdon. The bottom line is, that you should never trust the fanciful stories you get from macho British troops that beat their chests whenever they tell you about their wartime experiences in books, documentaries or in person.
Mar 12th, 2015 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 028 Alberto
Mar 12th, 2015 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0How about the Argentine “bravado” - stories of British carriers “sunk” more than once, multiple Harriers downed by the Arg gunners and Pilots...
Finally, the Argentine people were told by their military, that they were “winning” the war, right up until they surrendered en masse, 11,000 prisoners. That was far more than the number of the British Task Force landed on the Islands.
Alberto, you lost - the truth was very inconvenient for the Junta when they were forced to surrender.
Likewise, it doesn't look good on you trying to belittle the British victory.
It was well-deserved. None of them lacked bravery.
21 Alberto Bertorelli
Mar 12th, 2015 - 03:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0and so what?
Nothing to do with the article whatsoever. Completely irrelevant.
Why not tell us about some Chinese or Japanese officers in WWII? It still doesn't change the facts, or my comments.
If some British officers did have a disagreement 30 yrs ago, does this make the current incident of Latin Machismo any better, or worse?
PS: Who lost the Falkland's War? Who captured 11,000 prisoners of War?
2 British officers, allegedy, had a disagreement. Yet 11000 Argies quit because they were so scared of being killed. The cowards.
You maybe entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
Go on, write it here. Who Won? Answer me, dickhead,
You are an idiot, without argument.
Just Fuck Off and stop killing French Athletes.
ilsen: At least the 8,500 Argentine troops dug outside Puerto Argentino put up a fight, forcing an entire company under Major Mike Argue from 3 Para (150 paras) to panic and abandon Mount Longdon at one point and General Menendez was able to proudly display to war correspondents much captured British equipment, abandoned by 500 British troops on 3 June, 5 June, 7 June, 8 June and 9 June, when several forward British platoons from 42 and 45 Cdos and 3 Para panicked and fled when counterattacked at bayonet point by Argentine fighting patrols operating in No-Man's-Land. Don't forget that 100, 000 British troops tasked with defending Singapore surrendered to the Japanese on 15 February 1942 with hardly a fight. The British Expeditionary Force (BEF) also failed to put up a proper fight in May 1940, with 100,000 BEF soldiers quickly surrendering to the Germans and the remaining 200,000 stampeding all the way to Dunkirk and abandoning everything not only their French allies, but also their Lee Enfield rifles to get away from the fighting. The embarrassed Americans had to re-equip the BEF soldiers with uniforms and weapons.
Mar 12th, 2015 - 04:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Alberto
Mar 12th, 2015 - 06:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0...and where was Argentina during the war?
Cowering in their cow pastures.
No principles - no stand...
Troy Tempest: In response to your earlier post. How about the British inflated claims of having destroyed 75 Argentine jets like their ridiculous claim that their Rapier SAMs at San Carlos shot down 14 Argentine jets when in reality they only shot down 1, according to to the book AIR WAR SOUTH ATLANTIC by Jeffrey Ethell,and Aflred Price? And for your information at least 10,000 British troops landed at San Carlos with the Argentine forces tasked with defending Puerto Argentino facing two entire British brigades, Brigadier Juilian Thompson's 3rd Commando and Brigadier Tony Wilson's 5th Infantry. Now with regards to your latest post, Argentina was sitting on the fence while nodding in agreement with Germany. In fact, there was a strong plan to retake the Malvinas. I guess if Germany had concentrated in knocking Britain out of the war and not diverted troops to start a war against Russia, Argentina would've formed part of the Axis occupation forces in Britain, providing we had done our bit in the South Atlantic. Now what an honour that would've been to garrison a few British counties.
Mar 12th, 2015 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Alberto
Mar 12th, 2015 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you trying to replay the war to salvage some pride??
What is the point of your post??
Argentine military invaded a defenceless peaceful
civilian community.
You took away their freedom and their rights for the selfish purpose of imposing your will and sovereignty.
ANY repercussions, ANY backlash, ANY perceived slights, ANY deaths are on your shoulders.
YOU invaded. You got clobbered and sent home.
Crying about and saying “it was not fair” or “it was not an honourable victory...” or whatever, is naive, ridiculous, and would be laughable if it were not so tragic.
You brought it upon yourselves. Live with it.
@33 You don't need to win all the battles to win the wars, you precious Argentina invaded another countries sovereign territory, a peaceful group of islands, you fought, you lost. Get over it.
Mar 12th, 2015 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0@32
Mar 12th, 2015 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Allow me to correct you.
“Where was Argentina during the war?” ( I assume WWII)
Argentina was being a peaceful member of the world community in WWII, more than I can say for YOUR country!
This is a symptom of your pathetic narcissism at its worst. Just because WWII was a big war for you (the Anglos, UK), does not mean we had to get involved. We had no skin in the game. Why should we had cared? If the UK went down, it would have meant very little to Argentina to be honest.
We hadn't been attacked, we hadn't been threatened, we weren't the ones sneak attacked. So why the f--- should be go bankrupt for the likes of the US, UK, and such other ilk? Don't be stupid.
WWII was not a big deal in southern South America, in fact barely anyone noticed aside from heightened political propaganda by FOREIGN communities (which is why FOREIGERNS SUCK).
Meanwhile:
http://news.yahoo.com/st-louis-post-dispatch-2-officers-shot-ferguson-055552082.html
Burn baby burn (is back)
#33
Mar 12th, 2015 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If what you say is true, isn't the British victory all the more remarkable ?
I have seen umpteen reports from the Argentinian side about the multiple bombings of HMS Invincible , that British dead were at least 1500 and that the UK were hiding the figures from the public.
As to the Rapier batteries do you really think that we would reveal that they were mainly ineffective when the fighting was going on ?
The first casualty in war is the truth..On your side , your people were bring fed with stories of great victories.
How about Mt.Tumbledown ?
@32
Mar 12th, 2015 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Burn baby burn (is back)“
And nobody, but nobody, knows more about burning cars on a ”hot date” than Chopper!
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/imoyaro/chopperdilemma2_zpsd8c87421.jpg
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b521/imoyaro/chopperdilemma2_zpsd8c87421.jpg
@19 About your predictions........
Mar 12th, 2015 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seem to make some dire prediction about the future events in Argentina in nearly every post. Surely, I have never read all of them no would I want to. I am interested, however, in knowing if you keep track of your predictions to see how accurate they are. The few that I have seen have been 100% failures. Perhaps there are a few that have accurately predicted outcomes but I have yet to see one. If you survey your past predictions and determine some degree of accuracy no matter how low, you may get a good idea of whether you are saying something worthwhile or just trolling. Wouldn't it be embarrassing to discover that your life has been reduced to being nothing more than an internet troll? I wonder what percentage of accuracy would qualify your remarks as meaningful?
Have you tried trolling any other websites?
Hmmm… sounds like Voicey swallowed too many Kielbasas and suffered an identity crisis!
Mar 12th, 2015 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 039. What a very strange post. Nobody is every 100% accurate. I am human. I know I may seem like a supernatural and supreme being to you but I am not. I am fallible.
Mar 12th, 2015 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My predictions are just educated guesses. The themes of the posts are mostly right.
Anyone can do this if they read enough and know how to parse through articles and consolidate the knowledge.
I believe Argentina is in dire straits, most people probably don't see it yet but I gaurnatee that they will soon enough. The collapse that is coming will be worse and longer than in 2001. This WON DECADE was a farce, a cruel cruel joke played upon the citizens. Nothing was ever settled nothing was ever changed. The only thing that is now every single gov't and quasi govt entity is bankrupted.
:)
@10. Oh good, thanks for that. Now what I want to know is why the helicopters didn't crash on to argies? Why weren't more argies burned to death? Only two dead argies? Someone needs to trot out and exterminate another 198. Argies don't care about death. As a thought, who says it was an 'accident'? Argie 'things' with their hatred of Europeans for being so much better than the scum.
Mar 12th, 2015 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14. You don't need a 'federal farming party'. I can help you with a list of 'individuals' to execute. Use anything you like. Sniper rifles, machine guns, RPGs, grenades, sledgehammers, axes, knives, special steel rods with pointy ends. Just imagine the pleasure of ramming a steel rod down CFK's throat and smashing her skull with a sledgehammer.
@16. And? Were you trying to learn how to be a nazi? The only 'good' nazi is a dead nazi. And doesn't have a 'Voice'.
@21. More lies from a bit of Italian scum! Aren't Italian tanks still built with one forward gear and four reverse? Libyan civil war in 2011. Frightened little eyeties. Now the TRAITORS go out to SAVE illegal immigrants and let them out to the rest of Europe.
@26. You need to comment on strengths. British aircrew FIGHT. Argie aircrew know how to DIE. In 1982, Britain lost 24 helicopters (including those on the Atlantic Conveyor) and 10 fighters. Argieland lost 25 helicopters, 35 fighters, 2 bombers, 4 cargo aircraft, 25 COIN aircraft and 9 armed trainers. Isn't that 34 compared to 100? Farter!
@28. Terrible. 18 British dead and forty wounded. On the other hand, 31 argie dead, 120 wounded and 50 prisoners. That last would be the cowards. Should have shot or bayoneted the lot.
@31. I do like the argie 'stories'. So funny. The 'government' propaganda. Wonder how 'panicking, fleeing' British troops managed to take 11,313 argie cowardly prisoners?
@33. Would you like a correction? Rapiers only shot down 30 argie scum. Does it make a difference?
@36. No. Argieland is full of COWARDS. Response to a nazi battlecruiser? Nothing.
@10 Paul
Mar 12th, 2015 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I saw my first helicopter when it landed in front of my parents house carrying Major Patricio Dowling in 1982. Thankfully all of the ones I have seen since then have been carrying friendlier personnel (not difficult considering none of the others have threatened to shoot my, then, 12 year old sister).
According to the Rg Gov't rolling blackouts are a sign of a system functioning normally.
Mar 12th, 2015 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bizarro World
Burning hot with No A/C
lovely
Welcome to 3rd world misery.
Alberto.... as the Brits, according to you, lied about everything and generally just did a lot of running away.. how did the Argies lose?
Mar 12th, 2015 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or, in your version of history, did they not lose?
(I mean, if you are in argentina that wouldnt surprise me - that your history says you won)
Congratulations to Argentina, The new (Chinese) train line from Cordoba to Buenos Aires is 1/2 hour longer than it did in 1890.
Mar 12th, 2015 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I didn't make this up.
Why bother when the truth is so flipping hilarious.
No more than monkeys running that country.
No more than monkeys.
Anbar: Argentina lost a battle not the war. So far the score in the Anglo-Argentine confrontation is as follows:
Mar 13th, 2015 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 01806 British Invasion of Buenos Aires: Argentine independence movement victory
1807 British invasion of Buenos Aires: Argentine independence movement victory
1833 British invasion of the Malvinas: British victory
1845-80 Brit blockade of Buenos Aires: Argentine victory
1865-1879 Race to Colonize the Patagonia (Argentine victory)
1982 Malvinas War: British victory, Brits win in penalty shootout
@47.. No you goon, you lost the war, we are not in a 200 year war, which you apparently think is still on going?
Mar 13th, 2015 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 01806 and 1807 Britain at war with Spain, and France, British Victory at the end of the Napoleonic War.
1865-1879 Argentina V Indigenous Indians. Proud of Genocide one are we, not really anything to do with Britain
1982....ermm yep Mal Vinas (Sour Grapes), you lost but you just can't get over it can you, must have really hurt that Latin Machismo.
Based on your ramblings above, you have a very distorted understanding of history, not that we should be surprised coming from an Argentine.
Ha ha, another dumb Brit calling General Roca's Conquest of the Desert a genocide. Without US General Sheridan beating the North American Red Indians, the Brits today would be speaking German. We seems to be ignoring the fact the British implanted several colonies in the Patagonia in the 1860s and the Royal Navy, Royal Marines and the Chilean Army was ready to intervene and invade the Patagonia on the pretext of safeguarding British and Chilean interests and British and Chilean nationals and their descendants during the anarcho-communist uprising in the early 1920s. Even more strange, is the fact that you ignore the British financed invasion force that tried to invade Buenos Aires during the Anglo-French Blockade of Buenos Aires during the 1840s, that was defeated. This force for your information was commanded by turncoat General Lavalle that was bolstered by the 6,000-strong French Foreign Legion, all in the pay of the British government, Lord Palmerston.
Mar 13th, 2015 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Distraction.
Mar 13th, 2015 - 04:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0rotting roadkill:
Pay your debts.
@49
Mar 13th, 2015 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0And what has this to do with two Argie pilots crashing into each other and killing foreigners?
This idiot 49 why so many want to leave. Distort facts just like Argentine schools.
Mar 13th, 2015 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0@49...You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Distraction, lies, half truths and rhetoric is the sum of your posts and it seems your education system too.
Mar 13th, 2015 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 049=nostril in drag!
Mar 13th, 2015 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Alberto Bertorelli
Mar 13th, 2015 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I seem to remember that the Argentine invaders of the Falkland Islands, a British Overseas Self Governing Territory, withdrew from the archipelago “con los rabos enter los piernas”! Una derrota total!
And then, subsequently, these same servicemen were treated like pariahs by their own countrymen.
55 Gordo
Mar 13th, 2015 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“... withdrew from the archipelago “con los rabos enter los piernas”! Una derrota total”
Gordo1, let's not mince words,
or languages either ;-)
Albertos countrymen left... “with the tails enter the legs ”! Total defeat!”
flatulent fatso
Mar 13th, 2015 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“con los rabos enter los piernas”! Una derrota total!”
and you have said that you speak spanish fluently, that you have lived in colombia and blablabla?
LOL
where the fuck did you study spanish?
at the pork stanley community school?
gordo y mentiroso...great combo, fatso.
@41
Mar 13th, 2015 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you've got that right.
gordo1
Mar 13th, 2015 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No matter.
Pablo speaks both ENGLISH and Spanish, flatulently.
@49
Mar 13th, 2015 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what you are saying is that the conquest of the desert was a “usurption of British colonies” by Argentine “invaders” in Patagonia. How interesting LOL
As for 1833, there was no war, or battle.
The crew of Ss Sarandi who had already murdered their Captain and raped his wife in front of their children, were requested to leave the Falklands by Captain Onslow, six weeks after their arrival.
As has been pointed out, Britain won the Napoleonic wars, indirectly reducing the power of Spain, allowing South American colonies to continue their colonisation of the continent under different names...but pretend that they were the victims of colonialism not the perpetrators.
British Surrender Monkeys: You surrendered rather than take on the Japanese in street to street fighting at Singapore on 15 February 1942. 100,000 British surrendered under General Percival which proves that the 10,000 Argentines under General Menendez that fought at Goose Green and outside Pueto Argentino fought better and longer. The 300,000-strong British Expeditionary Force (BEF) ran all the way to Dunkirk, leaving 100,000 British surrender monkeys behind that gave up without a fight, sealing the fate of France. 50,000 British surrender monkeys surrendered in Malaya (before the fall of Singapore) and 50,000 British surrender monkeys surrendered during at Tobruk and Mersa Matruh in June 1942, now you have to agree with me, that despite British propaganda casting in bad light the French and Italians, the original, authentic surrender monkeys of WW2 were the British Surrender Monkeys before the collapse of the French and Italian armies that same year in 1940 (Battle of France and Operation Compass)
Mar 13th, 2015 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, Alberto, you are saying that the surrender of Singapore caused this helicopter crash?
Mar 14th, 2015 - 01:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0'coz... dude... even for an Argentine claim, its pushing the limits....
Alberto - good try at distraction - what silly ideas you have !!! Ha ha ha!
Mar 14th, 2015 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anbar... Chuckle :-) !!!
@61 AB
Mar 14th, 2015 - 04:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0You silly boy.
“which proves that the 10,000 Argentines under General Menendez that fought at Goose Green and outside Pueto Argentino fought better and longer.”
But lost. Got killed, got capatured. Got treated with disgrace on their return.
Their is no logic nor fact to what you have to say.
'fought better'???????? I think not. The Falklands are still British.
You lost. Get over it. Accept your fate. You were, and still are the the weaker one. You lost. You will never recover from this defeat.
Nothing more to say.
You can not re-write history.
ilsen: British machismo is clouding your judgement. The British were the first surrender monkeys of WW2, 100,000 BEF soldiers surrendered en masse long before the the French surrender in the last week of June 1940, and the surrender of Marshal Graziani's 10th Army during Operation Compass in January 1941. Out of 300,000-strong BEF, only 3,000, including supporting RAF and RN personnel were killed during the Battle of France and most of them while scurrying like rats at Dunkirk, that is just 3% killed (if we include the supporting RAF and RN). No wonder the French helped us get the Exocet and Roland missiles ready in the Malvinas War.
Mar 14th, 2015 - 05:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@65..You still don't get it do you, it's not the battles that you win it is the Wars. Now what is the similarity between the Napoleonic Wars, WWII and the Falklands War......
Mar 14th, 2015 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You won't get it so I will tell you, the British were on the side of the VICTORS. Battles are won and lost during a war, sometimes you have to retreat in order to fight another day, sometimes you lose battles.
Now using your logic the 'Battle of Vuelta de Obligado'.... Argentine surrender monkeys, can't even fight off a few boats from fortified positions on land.
can we also have the myth of the brave Gaucho Rivero fighting the nasty British oppressors now?
Mar 14th, 2015 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0(Just to complete the picture of Argentine mythology)
#65
Mar 14th, 2015 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With an Italian name and background I think we can draw our OWN conclusions., The Italians were not noted for heroism and fighting to the last man. In the western desert when confronted by allied forces they were pushed back so hard that they surrendered in 10's of thousands, The Afrika Corps had to bail them out.
The poor little Greek s knocked the crap out of them and they had to run crying to Hitler to bail them out.
The ones that ran to Argentina behaved no better.
Your syntax and phrases remind me of another anti-British poster who used almost the same approach....hm.
Clyde15 : Harry Zinder of Time magazine noted that the Italians fought better than had been expected, and commented that for the Italians:
Mar 14th, 2015 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It was a terrific letdown by their German allies. They had fought a good fight. In the south, the famed Folgore parachute division fought to the last round of ammunition. Two armoured divisions and a motorised division, which had been interspersed among the German formations, thought they would be allowed to retire gracefully with Rommel's 21st, 15th and 90th light. But even that was denied them. When it became obvious to Rommel that there would be little chance to hold anything between El Daba and the frontier, his Panzers dissolved, disintegrated and turned tail, leaving the Italians to fight a rear-guard action.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_El_Alamein
There are exceptions to every rule. I am aware of the Folgore Trieste and Ariete's role in the desert campaign. I had colleagues in the 1960's who had fought with the Desert Rats and by and large did not rate the Italian's highly.
Mar 15th, 2015 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Read one account:-
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Egyp-c16.html
Quote :-
Rommel said: ‘The fighting value of the Italian troops is so low that on 3.7, during an attack by inconsiderable enemy armoured forces, 360 men of Div. Ariete were captured without having offered resistance worthy of the name. In addition the division lost 28 guns and 100 M.T.’
The crash this article is about can be seen here. Doesn't look like engine failure.
Mar 15th, 2015 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/11/argentina-helicopter-crash_n_6847064.html?cps=gravity_2444_355947313146393600
@70 Clyde15
Mar 15th, 2015 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good artivle Clyde.
It certainly demonstrates that our non-combatant authority, “Alberto” @69 is misleadingly characterising the resolve of the Italians by relating one incident.
One has to question his qualifications and ability to analyse military accounts. If he is Argentine, he is likely a non-combatant. If indeed, he is a “Malvinas War” veteran, then he was part of a military force that was an aggressor, and surrendered to inferior numbers who defeated their entrenched positions. Those prisoners were returned, in disgrace.
Either he doesn't know what he is talking about, or he is trying to save face.
Contrast his comments to the official reports of the British captors, and the many British ex-servicemen and Islander eyewitnesses on MP.
Back on topic:
@71 Imoyaro
From that video, it looks like there was no mechanical problem causing the crash.
The two choppers were flying close together, however. I wonder if they were doing that for the sake of the show's producers wanting 'good camera footage'?
Clyde15: The New Zealand Official History of The Second World War (NZOH) lied about the claim that the Ariete lost 100 tanks on 3 July 1942. The real number of tanks lost by the Italians on that day was less than 10% the number the NZOH claimed. http://www.comandosupremo.com/1elalamein.html
Mar 15th, 2015 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Brescia and the Pavia Divisions also beat the crap out of the New Zealanders on the night of 14/15 July 1942:
“While the attacking brigades had been able to cut large gaps through the defences held y the Italian infantry, they had not been able to subdue all the resistance. Not surprisingly, most of the smaller outposts and defended localities had fallen easily but some of the larger posts had been bypassed during the night. The outposts which remained contained substantial number of anti-tank guns, machine guns and infantry. When daylight came, these posts were able to cover the area south of the ridge by fire and shot up any trucks foolhardy enough to drive forward.”'
http://www.comandosupremo.com/1elalamein.html
Yet the NZOH claims the opposite.
@73
Mar 15th, 2015 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“shot up any trucks foolhardy enough to drive forward” and “beat the crap out of the New Zealanders” don't quite sound like the same battle.
That is the impression I get, staying close to get good footage. Well that literally blew up in their face. :(
Mar 15th, 2015 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 073 Alberto
Mar 15th, 2015 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's amusing, and telling, that Alberto will quote Argentine conspiracy theorists to defame the British military. He then attempts to back it up by misquoting other accounts, whilst calling official reports and records, “lies”.
Troy Tempest: It's not just me that has called into question the NZOH:
Mar 16th, 2015 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Italian Bersaglieri quickly dismounted from their lorries and rounded up and disarmed the surprised New Zealanders as night fell ... The Official History of the 21st Battalion recounts the entire episode in considerable detail, but completely fails to name the enemy formation involved, or even acknowledge that it was Italian. It seems that the constant deluge of British propaganda about Italian military incompetence both during the war and ever since made the New Zealanders, even in 1953, reluctant to admit that the 'incompetent' Italians were responsible for inflicting one of their most embarrassing defeats.” (Iron Hulls, Iron Hearts: Mussolini's Elite Armoured Divisions in North Africa, Ian Walker, Crowood, 2012 )
Alberto please explain what Italian battles of WWII have in connection to the article above?
Mar 16th, 2015 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you posting all this rubbish all over this site?
77 Alberto
Mar 16th, 2015 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have already demonstrated your calculated mendacity when quoting.
without links.
Upon further investigation, at least one of your quotes was not only incomplete, but the inference you drew from it was completely false and misleading.
That was only discovered by one of our number who searched out the quoted passage carefully himself, as no link was provided by you.
Therefore, this passage too, is very suspect.
As usual, you provide the publisher's name, but no link.
I tried googling the passage as you wrote it, and there was no match.
Either your quote was inaccurate, not verbatim, or it does not exist transcribed to the Internet.
We would have to read the book to corroborate your assertions.
In other words, for the sake of argument on this forum, you are unable to support your quote as truthful.
It is easy to cherry-pick a few isolated examples that imply support for your hypothesis.
Without the context of the quote, if it is indeed accurate, we cannot confirm the conclusions you draw are well-founded.
One battle, especially without knowing the circumstances, does not characterise the resolve or ability of the Italian army.
You really blew your own credibility with your misquotes from previous sources, regarding the British.
If you are trying to salvage some Italian pride, or make some other point,
You are way off-topic - a distracting “surrender monkey”.
Troy Tempest: I just googled “reluctant to admit that the 'incompetent' Italians were responsible” and presto!, I found the part in the book IRON HULLS that proves the NZOH tried to cover up the loss of the New Zealand 21st Battalion that was overrun by the Italian Ariete Armoured Division during Operation Crusasader. In other words although the NZOH admits the loss of the 21st Battalion, it tried to hide the fact the battalion was lost in an Italian actions.
Mar 16th, 2015 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you want more proof that the New Zealand, British and Australian Official Histories are riddled with half truths, omissions and lies with regards to the performance of the Italian Army in North Africa just google “101 ITALIAN WW2 VICTORIES & COUNTING” and you will quickly fall in love with the Italian Armed Forces of WW2.
@80
Mar 17th, 2015 - 04:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0But you didn't answer my question, did you?
@81 ilsen
Mar 17th, 2015 - 06:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Alberto” is much more polite than“ Pablo-I'm-inferior-and-I-know-it- Cedron”.
However, he is indeed saturating the forum with unrelated, provocative, half-truths, just like ' the boy without dignity'.
#80
Mar 17th, 2015 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why did Italy lose in WW2 if they were so all powerful ?
The Russian Front (General Winter and Russian numbers), the Yugoslav partisans (Italy's Vietnam), US industrial might and lastly the Brits and Commonwealth forces.
Mar 17th, 2015 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0@84
Mar 17th, 2015 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who won the War in the South Atlantic in 1982?
Why does this question frighten you so much?
#84
Mar 17th, 2015 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Were the Russians fighting in the Italian campaign.? Were they in Sicily?.
Were the Yugoslav partisans fighting in Italy. Why did the Italians not invade Malta ? Were the Russians, Americans or Yugoslavs instrumental in the defeat of the Italian Navy ? NO, it was the Royal Navy.
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1727.html
When Italian dictator Benito Mussolini declared war on the Allies on June 10, 1940, he already had more than a million men in the Italian army based in Libya. In neighboring Egypt, the British Army had only 36,000 men guarding the Suez Canal and the Arabian oil fields. Italian forces became a potential threat to Allied supply routes in the Red Sea and the Suez Canal.
How come they were stuffed by a tiny British and commonwealth force and thousands taken prisoner .
The Afrika Korps under Rommel saved their bacon
East African Campaign
The East African Campaign refers to the battles fought between British Commonwealth forces (including forces from India, South Africa, Nigeria, and Ghana) and Italy during World War II, often seen as part of the North African Campaign. The campaign began on August 4, when Italian forces stationed in Italian East Africa invaded British Somaliland, taking the capital on August 19. Commonwealth forces counterattacked from Sudan in the north and Kenya in the south. Those attacks were successful and resulted in total Italian defeat only 94 days after the initial invasion.
Western Desert Campaign
The Western Desert Campaign, or Libya-Egypt Campaign, began on September 13, 1940, when Italian forces stationed in Libya launched a small invasion into British-held Egypt and set up defensive forts. Allied forces were greatly outnumbered, but launched a counterattack called Operation Compass. It was more successful than planned and resulted in massive numbers of Italian prisoners of war and the advance of Allied forces up to El Agheila. However, Adolf Hitler had a plan to aid the Italians.
Enough said.
86 Clyde
Mar 17th, 2015 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My father remembers seeing the Italian POW's in his village in Hertfordshire during the war. There were Germans too, but the Italians were frequently seen in the streets. They were happy doing gardening and small jobs around the village, chatting with the locals. I believe one or two came back to live nearby, after the war.
#87
Mar 17th, 2015 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The old Butlins holiday camp in Ayr hosted Italian POW's in WW2
Hence the joke “Stalag Butlins”
There was a break-out and groups of them headed for the hills and freedom. Within about 24 hours the bulk of them had returned to the camp to give themselves up. They couldn't stand the bracing Scottish weather and were on the verge of hypothermia. The remainder were recaptured and admitted that they probably would have died if they had not been found.
Funnily enough, the Italians were not disliked..
It was obvious that they had no heart for fighting and had just been bundled into the army to bolster Mussolini's fantasies.
My wife's parents made friends with a German POW named Gunther. He had been captured in Norway and again he had been drafted.
My Father-in -law could read and speak German so he taught him English. He was allowed home visits and I still have picture of him with my wife as a child, sitting on his knee clutching a wooden doll he had made for her at Christmas.
I think we are too ready to assign national stereotypes based on prejudice.
Clyde15 : The Royal Navy played a very minimal part, in comparison to the Yugoslav partisans and Russian armies, that bled the Italian armies dry in Russia and Yugoslavia.
Mar 18th, 2015 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The Regia Marina closed the direct passage through the Mediterranean for thirty-six months, almost its entire war, to all but eight fast freighters in three massively protected convoys, Collar, Excess, and Tiger, which ran between November 1940 and May 1941. This forced Great Britain to build and supply an army in Egypt around the Cape of Good Hope rather than the Strait of Gilbraltar, a twelve-thousand-mile voyage, nearly four times longer than the direct Mediterranean passage.” http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=210001&start=90
Funny, I always thought that it was the Luftwaffe and Regia Aeronautica attacking our convoys. Where was the Italian surface fleet.
Mar 18th, 2015 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is a blog site you are quoting with references to Italian reports printed in an american newspaper at the time.
Again, if they were all powerful and in command of the seas, why did they not take out Malta. The one spot that was resisting in your Mare Nostrum ? You are telling me that the Med. was controlled by the Italian navy.
What was left of the navy after Taranto and Cape Mapatan.
Seeing as Alberto Bertorelli is incapable of answering the question. Can anyone else tell me who won the War in the South Atlantic in 1982?
Mar 18th, 2015 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0thanks!
I know, I know... pick me...!!
Mar 18th, 2015 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*leans forward, waves arm frantically, strains forward against desk*
88
Mar 18th, 2015 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you probably know the Italian POW's were held at Glenbranter and worked planting trees on the surrounding hills...if you look at the bridge at Glenbranter you will see some of their names carved into it....
Quite a few Italians stayed after the war, hence all the Italian names in the area, but you probably know more about that than me....before my time....
@91
Mar 18th, 2015 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a relief the Italians weren't in it. We might have been in real trouble then.
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