MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands/Malvinas claim: “Argentina following on Ghandi's teachings”
Argentina is following on Mahatma Gandhi's teachings or ahimsa (truth, love and fraternity) that brought independence to India, to claim the Falklands/Malvinas and other South Atlantic islands, said Daniel Filmus, head of the Malvinas Issues Desk in the Argentine foreign ministry during his latest incursion this time in Ethiopia. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesGhandi would not support the Argentine nonsense - he would be supporting the Islanders and their freedom to do as THEY please. He would be encouraging dialogue between the Islanders and Argentina - Argentina will not speak to the Islanders!
May 04th, 2015 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0yes because you tried violence that didn't work.
May 04th, 2015 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0you tried veiled threats and got a promise if an advanced air defence network which is going to turn up while the s/h jets remain a pipe dream
Jeremy Clarkson got a taste of that truth, love and fraternity.
May 04th, 2015 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seems Argentine politicians believe things are because they say they are.
More action less words I think.
The main problem, Mr Filmus, is that Argentina wouldn't recognise the truth if it danced naked in front of you.
May 04th, 2015 - 06:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0So you can only apply the teachings of Ghandi IF you accept the truth.
And the more you embarrass yourself, and Argentina, on the world stage the more country's can see the real reason WHY Argentina should never be allowed anywhere near the Falklands.
Filmus is spelling out Argentina's current and correct strategy. No violence. Just persistence. Argentina has claimed the islands for a long time and will just keep doing that.
May 04th, 2015 - 06:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina has learned from Gandhi to be patient and to wait. We have learned from him that in the end people will get what is theirs and get what they want despite the amount of time it may take”
May 04th, 2015 - 06:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0But the ”people“ already have what they want. The Islanders are already living how they choose to live.
All they need now is for Argentina to stop trying to bully and harass them. Oh, and to stop spouting all of this utter, utter nonsense
5 Enrique Massot
” Argentina has claimed the islands for a long time and will just keep doing that.”
Just because you keep repeating the lie, it does not make it true. It still remains a lie no matter how many times you repeat it / how many years go by.
@5
May 04th, 2015 - 06:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it will. It should be clear to everybody by now that Argentina doesn't actually want the islands, it wants the grievance.
The Argentine argumentation is getting even more bizarre. Gandhi was fightning for his country's independence with peaceful methods. Filmus is fighting for his country's take-over of a neighbouring territory. Argentina has already tried the violent way of doing so, but failed. Now they are trying another strategy. But it will also fail.
May 04th, 2015 - 07:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 Enrique Massot
May 04th, 2015 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then, first, Argentina should apologise to the Islanders for its reckless and illegal invasion of their homeland in 1982.
But, Argentine should also bear in mind that Britain has an even more valid claim to sovereignty of the archipelago and ultimately the only way to resolve the problem is through the International Court of Justice.
It's probably just as well Gandhi was cremated. That way he won't be spinning in his grave at being invoked in support of the territorial ambitions of a Mussolini tribute act.
May 04th, 2015 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5
May 04th, 2015 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0“An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.” Guess which bespectacled Indian said that?
Surely the islanders just want the same thing you do - the right to enjoy freedom and prosperity in a Commonwealth country rather than struggle in Argentina. Why is it OK for you but not for them?
Ghandi's fundamental quest was for the independence of people. He would not have backed a Argentinian colonisation project.
May 04th, 2015 - 08:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Must be getting frustrated & desperate over there.
May 04th, 2015 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 Enrico,
You can “claim” what you like for as long as you like.
You're still not going to get the Falklands.
lf you can't accept that then you know what to do.
Just do it!
“We have learned from him that in the end people will get what is theirs...”
May 04th, 2015 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Given the facts about Argentina's claim, wouldn't that be more of a reason for them to *ignore* Ghandi's teachings?
After all, Argentina's current strategy involves trying to prevent people ”get(ting) what is theirs“.
@5:”Argentina has claimed the islands for a long time and will just keep doing that.”
Whilst refusing any method that would resolve the dispute in a fair and honest matter, of course.
I've never seen anyone on this site refer to Argentina's methods of lying to their neighbours, the UN and their own children (possibly the most disgusting act) as a “correct strategy”.
Shameless.
May 04th, 2015 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is amazing what Argentinean education did to Ghandi's teachings!
May 04th, 2015 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I read that statement as the Argentine government has given up. There was little support from the majority of Argentines with more pressing worries. CFK wanted the conquering of the Falklands to be her legacy and that is not going to happen. They tried everything and lost so what else can they do to save face?
May 04th, 2015 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Filmus must be on something really strong to come up with this nonsense.
May 04th, 2015 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0The argie government are not even fit to have washed the feet of Ghandi if he was still alive.
Ludicrous in the extreme.
Talk about opening your mouth to change feet...
May 04th, 2015 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5. It is disgraceful that Sra Filmus attempts to justify his blatant attempts at colonialism by referring to Gandhi. It is notable that Gandhi's prime ideology was 'self-rule'. The Falkland Islanders have the degree of self-rule that they want. If they want more, they only have to ask. Argieland may have claimed the Islands for a long time. So? I've decided to claim argieland. Does that mean I should get it? There are a number of reasons why the Islands are British.
May 04th, 2015 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 01. They were discovered by Britain;
2. They have been under British sovereignty for 250 years;
3. They have been under British rule for 325 years;
4. There has only been a 'state' argie presence on the Islands for 16 weeks and such presence was illegitimate and illegal in both instances;
5. The 1982 Falklands War ended all previous argie 'claims' both by force and by international law.
Good strategy, but where are the billions of native Argentine serfs and peasants to enact civil disobedience on the islands??
May 04th, 2015 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To try and link Gandhi's quest for Indian independence with Argentina's attempt to colonize the Falkland islands is perversion of history. Argentina is doing the exact opposite of Gandhi's teaching.
May 04th, 2015 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On one level Argentina's antics are a joke and an object of pity, but on another deeper level there is something dark, sinister and frankly sickening about their rhetoric and behaviour.
Mr Filmus seems to be geographically and politically challenged. Gandhi has d no connexion at all with Ethiopia and the current Indian government is led by a man who comes from the same political background as Gandhi's murderer. Even if his newly discovered enthusiasm for Gandhiism is sincere, it is likely to have no effect on either government, both of which are enthusiastically militarist.
May 04th, 2015 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the other hand, if the Argentine people took up a policy of passive resistance, would anyone notice the difference?
Enrique- you have not got a clue have you- niether has Filmus! What progress has your waiting game achieved you in the last 33years?
May 04th, 2015 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What have you gained in effective reality?
Nothing.
What have the Islands gained in the last 33 years?
Big population increase.
massive economic increase
changed from traditional colonial type rule to internal self governement
stability
security
shall I go on?
From the sublime to the ridiculous and on to the ludicrous.
May 04th, 2015 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although what else could you expect from the minister for imaginary concepts.
Someone should find him a real job to do.
Mr Filmus, I´m gonna give you a free heads-up (you don´t need to appoint me at your absurd office nor pay me + 20k as you do with your pals)
May 04th, 2015 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is NO POINT OF COMPARISON between Arg-and-the-FI, and Ghandi-and-India.
NO POINT AT ALL.
Zero.
Absolutely nothing to do.
Now please stop embarrassing us. If you want to keep making yourself look like a poor pathetic man, please keep trying to be city mayor so we all can laugh at your low-count of votes ( * Loser * )
The big difference is that Gandhi would have talked to the Falkland Islanders and not chosen to ignore them so this is another fail for Filmus.
May 04th, 2015 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If there was an award for bull shit he would win ever time.
@ 26 Yes there is a point...
May 04th, 2015 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British told Ghandi: “This is British territory. Full stop”
Ghandi laughed out loud and the British left.
The British tell Argentina: “This is British territory. Full stop”
Argentina is laughing out loud and the British will leave.
See the coincidence?
28
May 04th, 2015 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Time for your meds or the nurse will be very angry with you
@ 28
May 04th, 2015 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0India was inhabited by MILLIONS of Indians who supported the independence movement. The number of Argentinians/Islanders living in the FI who support the annexation is ... zero.
Ghandi was the voice of those millions. Here, the Arg gov is the voice of .. who? Do the Average Argentinian run the streets claiming `GIB ISLANDS !!!!´ ? Absolutely NO.
There is NO coincidence. And by trying to force one, you´ll stumble again.
“Falklands/Malvinas claim: “Argentina following on Ghandi's teachings””
May 04th, 2015 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure.
Where in Ghandi's teachings did he advocate the purchase of new fighters and warships?
No where.
ALL rotting roadkillians lie. It is their nature.
STARVE THE TROLLS.
The British invasions of the Río de la Plata were a series of unsuccessful British attempts... 1806, 1807 Montevideo, 1808 Buenos Aires again.
May 04th, 2015 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is what we are talking about here, thieves always will be thieves, please go back to your cave and stay there.
The Island Malvinas where taken by force by the British in 1833, please give back what is not yours.
@32psql,
May 04th, 2015 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine invasions of Patagonia were unfortunately(for the native peoples) successful.
This is what we are talking about here, thieves will always be thieves,please go back to the slums of Naples & stay there.
Patagonia was taken by force by the Argentines in the 1880s, please give back what is not yours.
And while you're at it, its time to return the land that you Argentines stole from Paraguay in 1871. Please return that land also.
@28 there is a point, the point is that my family have lived here probably longer than you have in Argentina, this is our home, it's like saying to you, go back to spain, Germany, Italy or wherever you originated. What gives you the right to tell me to go back to where my ancesters came from.
May 04th, 2015 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 032 psql
May 04th, 2015 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately ( for you, for argentina AND for all the brainwashed masses in your population ) the 1982 INVASION of the Falkland Islands was unsuccessful.
That is what we are talking about here, thieves always will be thieves, please go back to your cave and stay there. The Falkland Islands where taken by force by argentina 1982 and we had to use force to return them to their rightful owners.
During those...what?? 76 days?? You showed the Islanders what it means live under argentine subjugation. You showed them what living under argentine rule would look like, would be like for them.
You had your chance and you f**ked it up. YOU ALL F**KED IT UP!!! All of you who danced in the streets when the invasion was announced, all of you who cheered at the news. YOU ALL F**KED IT UP!!
Now the Islanders want nothing, NOTHING to do with you. You did this all by yourselves, to yourselves and the ONLY people you can blame IS yourselves.
The Falklands Islands are British.
The Truth's a b*tch.
Suck it up.
Can't actually believe what I've read. It's made me feel nauseous .
May 04th, 2015 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Filmus has a great ability to speak on behalf of other nations, is that the same as speaking in many tongues? Pucker up and prepare to be bussed, which one is going to be the bitch?
May 04th, 2015 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@32. Small problem. The British invasions were invasions of spanish territory. Spain, with whom Britain was at war. When did spain agree that little colonies could call themselves 'countries'? Would that be 1858? Perhaps you should consider whether Britain could feel entitled to bomb, by one means or another, argieland into oblivion. I take this attitude. Your colony tried to seize British territory. Many years later, your corrupt, criminal country tried again. Just guess what might happen if you try again.
May 04th, 2015 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never mind the supposed reduction in British armed forces. Just consider capability. Where shall we start? The RAF Voyagers capable of reaching the Falklands without landing or refuelling? The 8,000 men of 16 Air Assault Brigade. The Trident-equipped ballistic missile submarines. The Tomahawk-equipped fleet submarines. Britain has been sovereign over the Falkland Islands for 250 years. Argiescumland has managed 16 weeks. Please die soon!
@ 38 Conqueror
May 04th, 2015 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Britain has been sovereign over the Falkland Islands for 250 years. Argiescumland has managed 16 weeks.”
Just a small but very important point: the argies possessed the islands, they were most certainly NOT sovereign to TDC.
They were squatters at best and had NO licence, not even a bare one.
For those who do not understand the legal ramifications a bare licence still involves two parties: the owner of the land allowing those who possess the land to continue to do so even when the former lease between both parties has expired and before a new lease has been signed.
There was only ONE 'entity' here the damnable argies.
I look forward to seeing Filmus arrive at the UN, walking barefoot dressed in round glasses and a Sari.
May 04th, 2015 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have learned from him that in the end people will get what is theirs
May 04th, 2015 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0YES THEY WILL,
The islanders will be free to decide who THEY want to be, not the dictatorship of Argentina,
Argentina has NO interest in the islanders rights , human rights , democracy , freedom of choice , nothing but their own vanity.
they wish to replace the free British, with argentine dictatorship,
A total disgrace for a so called 21st century nation,
they should be ashamed of themselves, but they are not.
just my opinion.
But Snr Filmus, India also signed this, below, at the Commonwealth parliamentary meeting…..how does that recognise your sovereignty Snr Filmus… you aren’t twisting the truth are you, you little tinker.
May 04th, 2015 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This Association recognises the internationally observed Referendum held in the Falkland Islands over the period 10 and 11 March 2013, which sought the electorate’s views on their Political status, as a free and fair expression of Falkland Islanders wishes and their right to Self-Determination.”
Now lets look at what the G77 actually signed up to….
“We reaffirm the need for the governments of Argentina and the UK to resume negotiations on the 'Malvinas Islands question' in conformity with the principles and objectives of the United Nations and pertinent resolutions, so as to find a timely, peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute related to the 'Malvinas Islands question', which seriously harms the economic capacity of Argentina, and the need for both sides to abstain from making decisions that involve the introduction of unilateral modifications to the situation, while the Islands are in the middle of the process recommended by the UN General Assembly”
Ermm… forgive give me, but as a native English speaker, I am having trouble in understanding how this is supporting the Argentinian claim, it merely asked the governments to find a peaceful solution to the ‘Dispute’…..although I like the way they manage to play the victim by inserting the line…’which seriously harms the economic capacity of Argentina’. I am sure if you had them there islands, all your money troubles would be over..snigger, snigger.
34 Falkland Islands
May 04th, 2015 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What gives you the right to tell me to go back to where my ancestors came from.”
They got nothing!!! They got NOTHING!!! No case, no claim, no authority, no class and NO SENSE!!
I'll see their G77 and I'll raise them HMS Duncan.
So it is written, so it shall be:-
The Falklands are British.
peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute related to the 'Malvinas Islands question'
May 04th, 2015 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I think democracy will agree, that we did just that,
the islanders were given a free referendum,
and they=the islanders voted to remain British, so end of dispute,..
@40
May 04th, 2015 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.. and drinking his own urine.
The argentine government is so full of it. lol
May 04th, 2015 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 045 HansNiesund
May 04th, 2015 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Much LOLz
If they are selling tickets to that gig, I'll take a couple off your hands!!
First of all I must clarify that Filmus is a total moron. A useless person that failed in everything he set out. A total mess.
May 04th, 2015 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2 Violence in the case of the Falkland dispute resolution failed from both sides. Some british people consider that the UK won the war but the real thing is that the UniteD Kingdom lost plenty of material (“my best warships” as Maggie Thatcher said) and, sadly, some of its best young people to be exactly in the very same situation as at the beginning of the argentine occupation. The United Kingdom was not able to obtain a waiver of the claim of sovereignty from Argentina after the war.
In addition, it was forced to waste plenty of money to keep the same status of the Islands and more money will have to be waste for the very same reason.
After the war nobody expected that 33 years later the dispute would be a present issue as it is.
So thinking about a negotiated and peaceful exit won't be a bad idea either for Argentina or for the United Kingdom.
@9
Taking into account the alleged “Ilegal” harassment and “economic blockade” you might force the FI Government (and the UK Foreign Ministry) to go to the ICJ to force Argentina to stop with its attitude. You can even sue the to get economic compensations if suitable. This was done in the past when Nicaragua accused the USA for similar behaviour. You should think about it. It might work...unles you are afraid of going there.
“Some british people consider that the UK won the war”
May 04th, 2015 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You need to look up the definition of “some”.
Britain did win. And for all your other 'facts', Argentina has not made a single tiny advance in its 'claim' in 33 years.
Not one single TINY concrete advance.
Twist history and facts (as Argentineans are wont) all you want but the current reality makes a lie of them.
2015 and the Falkland Islands are STILL British.
@48 Pgerman
May 04th, 2015 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unless Argentina's opening gambit is to formally drop its claim (again) then I'm not sure what else the negotiations could cover. Is it not time to be realistic and accept that Argentina is out of options, no legal claim, no UNGA support for transfer of sovereignty, no likely support from the islanders, no chance of submission by the UK and no military option after having started and lost an illegal war once already? You know the phrase “all over bar the shouting” - well it's over and this is Argentina shouting, 33 years so far.
All over bar the shouting!
May 04th, 2015 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perfect.
Absolutely perfect description.
@48 pgerman
May 04th, 2015 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“After the war nobody expected that 33 years later the dispute would be a present issue as it is. ”
It isn't a present issue. Or at least only in Argentina and on obscure message boards such as this. Nobody else cares.
@49
May 05th, 2015 - 01:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“2015 and the Falkland Islands are STILL British”? As they have been during the previous 150 years.....so nothing changed with the sacrifice of the war.
@52
“It isn't a present issue. Or at least only in Argentina and on obscure message boards such as this. Nobody else cares”? Sure, that's why you are writing here, that's why the UK pays fortunes in the defense of the islands, that's why the UK Primer Minister and the Foreign Office regularly declares something to the press....sure, sure.......nobody knows where the islands are located.
Yeah hard to see it is much an issue anywhere other than in Argentina.
May 05th, 2015 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0In the UK it is only part of the normal political discourse. At the UN is has been shunted to an unimportant committee and ignored by everyone else c
Even Argentina has trouble getting it up...... erm raising it as an issue in many fora.
Even the Falkland Islanders aren't affected. Oil exploration still goes on. Planes still land and take off. They're still rich and British.
Where is the issue outside of Argentina's domestic consumption?
“From the standpoint of Sun Tzu’s philosophy of war, the Mahatma Ghandi is among the greatest warriors of all time . Sun Tzu said, “Attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy’s army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence.”
May 05th, 2015 - 04:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ Gandhi defeated the most powerful empire on Earth, the British Empire, without firing a single bullet, and he was the pinnacle of excellence”
The US Army's Gandhi Strategy
by Paul Chappell
The only problem with this analogy with Ghandi is that The Falkland Islanders would need to go on strike to support Argentine territorial rights. They have spoken. To remain British.
May 05th, 2015 - 05:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@55 Marquitos Alejandrito
May 05th, 2015 - 05:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0““ Gandhi defeated the most powerful empire on Earth, the British Empire, without firing a single bullet, and he was the pinnacle of excellence””
Argentina cannot claim this as its armed forces invaded the Falklands Islands in 1982 - no analogy.
Keep looking!
@53
May 05th, 2015 - 06:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0You seem to subscribe to the rather peculiar Argentine view that the Falklands “dispute” is like some kind of football match, where an Argentine team faces a British team in a stadium packed with cheering supporters, largely on the Argentine side.
In fact there is no British team on the pitch, and nobody but Argentines in the stand, watching a few Argentine players having a kick about and scoring largely own goals, while Argentine commentators try to convince the punters it's really the World Cup.
Meanwhile out in the real world, everybody else knows this game was played decades ago.
@55
Congratulations are due to Filmus for coming out with the most spectacular illustration of Argentine's narcissistic self-obsession to date. Argentina's Falklands neurosis owes more to Kim Jong Il and Mussolini than it does to Gandhi, while your alleged conviction to non-violence is a consequence of capability rather than conviction.
Argentina's ridiculous “claims”……
May 05th, 2015 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wholly ignorable & a waste of everyone's time.
The Falklands have never belonged to Argentina,
And never will.
Get over it malvinistas,
Find something worthwhile to do.
Meanwhile we'll up our protection because, we DON'T trust you.
Miserable poltroons.
He really needs to spend his term in office wearing nothing but a sheet if he's going to convince us that he's the incarnation of MG
May 05th, 2015 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Everyone is missing the big picture here.
May 05th, 2015 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ghandi, Mandela, Luther King Jr., what do they have in common?
They were fighting the same oppressor: the ILLEGALLY established Anglo government and society that was subjugating their people. So much for Anglo respect for self-determination, when three world figures of peace had to fight for the rights of people the ANGLO oppressed.
Coincidence?
I don't think so.
Just another (in)famous instance of “ANGLOS WILL BE ANGLOS”.
@61
May 05th, 2015 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know what picture it is you're looking at, but if it has the Afrikaners as Anglos and an illegal United States government, then the artist doesn't know shit.
How are the indigenous peoples of Argentina getting on these days, by the way? Those that are left? How many Mandelas, MLKs, and Gandhis might there have been there if they hadn't had to contend with your forebears?
Of course, the Afrikaners inherited YOUR illegally established government, so did the United States.
May 05th, 2015 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina there are no such figures because none were needed. Everyone is equal under the law.
@63 Everyone_needs_Resveratroll
May 05th, 2015 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'In Argentina there are no such figures because none were needed. Everyone is equal under the law.' So all the indigenous peoples who lost their lives and possessions during la Guerra del Desierto of Julio Argentino Roca were equal under the law.
You are, of course, a liar!
MA
May 05th, 2015 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Considering how Ghandi died, your shooting anology in a little inappropriate.
@63
May 05th, 2015 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina there are no such figures because your forebears killed everybody who might have produced one.
If there is one thing more comically misplaced than the Argentine claim to the Falklands, it is the Argentine claim to the moral high ground.
“If there is one thing more comically misplaced than the Argentine claim to the Falklands, it is the Argentine claim to the moral high ground.”
May 05th, 2015 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This coming from a Brit whose nation created an empire based on rapacious opportunism, seizing land all over the planet from stone-age tribes, displacing hundreds of millions from one continent to another, and suppressing any thoughts of self-determination (and then claiming that after WWII, they benevolently gave it all up without a fight).
The latter only because you had neither the military (decimated by WWII), nor the manpower (ditto), nor the cash (you were broke), to hold them!
Duplicity: Anglos will be anglos.
@67 The Empire disappeared many years ago but not under the circumstances that you have invented. And the actions that you allege just never happened.
May 05th, 2015 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a LIAR who is telling “cuentos de hadas” in order to make your unacceptable points. Just as you lie about the Argentine claim to sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. This claim ceased to be valid in 1850 via the Arana Southern Treaty.
@68 gordo1
May 05th, 2015 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And, of course, most of the member states and territories of the former “Empire” are now, voluntarily, members of the Commonwealth of Nations led by the HM Queen Elizabeth II.
63@
May 05th, 2015 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina . Everyone is equal under the law
does this law include the right to decide who governs you,
does this law include the right to a referendum,
And does this law accept the islanders wish to remain British...
After you, you stated everyone is equal under argentine law, and as Argentina claims the Falkland's and insists that the Falkland's are argentine, so your law must, in your view include them..
yes????
The UK will be returning the Malvinas within the next 25 years.
May 06th, 2015 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0@71 Hepatia
May 06th, 2015 - 04:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK does not have the authority to “return” the archipelago to anyone. Any decision concerning the future of the FALKLAND ISLANDS will be made by its native population who, as you must be very aware, already have made their decision to remain as they are.
“Pie in the sky” aspirations like yours are the inventions of a nation in crisis.
@72 gordo1,
May 06th, 2015 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hepatia has nothing to add to any discussion.
He/she/it is just trying to be an irritant.
@71 Hepatia,
Within 25 years the Falklands most likely will be an independent country & l would not be surprised to find Argentina as a Chinese colony or to have broken up into smaller countries.
@71 “The UK will be returning the Malvinas within the next 25 years.”
May 06th, 2015 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shouldn't that be about 21 years now Hep, I'm sure that you've been saying that for 3 or 4 years.
@67
Yes our ancestors did some pretty bad things, can you explain how that justifies you trying it in the current day?
71 Hepatia (#)
May 06th, 2015 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 06th, 2015 - 02:56 am
...“The UK will be returning the Malvinas within the next 25 years.”
I would hazard a guess that the UK will be “returning” the Falkland Islands to the Islanders a lot sooner than 25 years, but the UK has absolutely no power to “return” the Malvinas to anyone!!!!!!!
Let me see if I understood. The United Kingdom had to invest millions of pounds in equipment, material. The United Kingdom lost milliones of pounds in ships. The United Kingdom lost some of its best young people.
May 06th, 2015 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not a single pound was compensated by Argentina to cover the expenses of the war. The UK was not able to force Argentina to recognize the british rights over the FI. The UK was not able to force Argentina to waive its claims on the FI.
All of these to be back in the very same status as “always” since 1883 and you believe that “we won”?
FI became quite an international issue. Not a single UK warship is able to call in South American ports in the South Atlantic Ocean so it's evident that the United Kingdom lost militar influence in the region. He is not considered an ally by Uruguay, Brasil, etc any longer.
Fortunes in GB pounds were invested since 1982 to “protect” the same old status in the islands. Fortunes will have to be invested in the future.
The war was lost by Argentina. But do you really believe that the war was won by the United Kingdom? I cannot believe I am discussing this with a well educated and intellectual british person. You must see the japanese movie “Seven Samurais” from Kurosawa to understand who won the war and who lost it..
76
May 06th, 2015 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All that, but they are still not yours......they still belong to the Islanders
@76
May 06th, 2015 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wars aren't free for anybody, and it's regrettable the Falklands War was forced upon the UK by your foaming at the mouth military dictatorship of the time. Nevertheless the costs of appeasement and capitulation are much greater than those of kicking your aggressor's arse, and infinitely less satisfying.
Argentina lost the war, not just on the day but definitively, by making it impossible for any UK government to accede to its demands, even if one could be found that wanted to. The Kirchner governments have further ensured that Argentina's claim can never be met, the only remaining issue is whether this has been by intent or stupidity. The fact that Malvinistas are too clueless and self-obsessed to realise that their cause is dead in the modern world, by their own hand, is neither here nor there. Nobody ever expected Argentina to renounce its claim, in the same way that nobody expects a neurotic to renounce his neurosis, or the stupid to become wise. Defeat in a war you started is quite enough, and four aeroplanes and an occasional naval visit is a reasonable price to pay for ensuring you stay back in your box.
Speaking of naval visits, you must have missed the December naval exhibition in Chile featuring HMS Dragon.
You really should stop clutching at straws. Argentina's campaign has had no practical effect whatsoever, expect in further pulling the wool over the eyes of the Malvinista community. As we all know, there are only two ways remaining you could possibly advance your claim. One is through the ICJ , but you won't dare because you would fail and your lies would be exposed. The other is through the islanders, but that would mean dropping the contempt and hatred that sustains your belief in the first place.
All you've got left after that is wishful thinking and chewing your liver. But some of you seem to enjoy that.
@78
May 06th, 2015 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You keep on showing off the visit of the HMS Dragon to Chile that is another proof that the United Kingdom lost influence iu the continent. Before the war RN ships regularly visited Argentina (Puerto Belgrano mainly) and I imagine it also were use to visit Uruguay and Brazil. But it seems that the you are not so wellcome by South Atlantic Ocean LATAM countries nowadays. Do you imagine this situation for the winner of a war? Hard to believe.
The war was clearly a very bad business for both parties but you doesn't seem to be able to see the real situation.
In additon, it might be the time for the Unit Kingdom government to go to the ITJ to accuse Argentina for its current behavior. I mean for its continuing threatenings, for its economic blockade, for its intention to isolate the Islands from the continent, for suing oil companies, etc. What's more Argentina can even be asked for money compensations. Nicaragua did this with the USA and it won the trial.
Why don't you forced your government to do so? It might be the time....scared perhaps?
@76 & 79
May 06th, 2015 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You really know very little about the reality of war and solidarity amongst peoples who are allies and who enjoy mutual respect.
During the Second World War Britain declared war on Nazi Germany and was alone. What was the result? Countries saw what was happening and joined Britain in its campaign against Germany and, of course, you know the result.
The fact that British naval vessels may not call on Latin American countries for the time being is a meaningless gesture. Those Latin American countries concerned maintain embassies in London and the UK maintains embassies in the majority of Latin American nations.
Of course, the armed conflict of 1982 between Argentina and the UK was a triumph for the latter. I remember with much happiness seeing the surrender and withdrawal of the Argentine troops “con los rabos entre las piernas”!
By the way, just what is the ITJ? Never heard of it.
You can bet your bottom dollar that the carrier and its escorts will visit the Falkland's.
May 06th, 2015 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@80
May 06th, 2015 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK and the Crown had fought against the tyranny in Europe and won the war. I am happy about that. What's more, I am more than grateful with both, the UK and the Crown, for the effort and sacrifice they made.
Your comment is the best example of “winning countries and defeated ones” since once the nazis, and the fascist, were defeated the United Kingdom could freely move within all Europe and mainly in the countries defeated. The UK had, and still have (I'm not pretty sure about this last), garrisons in Germany and in Italy. The UK grew in political influence in Europe and the defeated were forced to economically compensate the economic loses due to the war.
In addition, all the issues that brought the war were definitely settled.
But in South Amercia it seems just the opposite. As a result of the war the United Kingdom has less freedom to move within the Continent. It lost political, cultural and economic influence. Not to mention that in the Argentine territory where “the winner” cannot use the ports and had to beg (to “the defeated”) for a weekly air link to the continent.
It's true that there are diplomatic relationships with the Continent but there are also with Argentina.
And the most important thing is that the dispute is alive. The United Kingdom could not force Argentina to economically compensate the looses. So, it is hard to see the United Kingdom as “the winner” in the region as a result of the conflict.
@81
I would love to see the new RN carrier and its escorts visiting the FI, and I would love to know the cost of moving such ships down to the South Cone. It will cost another fortune....it will be additional money wasted for the “winning side”.
82 pgerman
May 06th, 2015 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you even a real person?
We have a saying in the 6 nations Rugby tournament “You never beat France, you just score more points than they do”
Here you are, still trying desperately to save face, to salvage some sort of national honour from a humiliating defeat by a military force that was 8,000 miles from it's home bases, that you out numbered in men by 4 to 1 and in aircraft by 10 to 1.
There is no honour to be had. You tried to steal something that was not yours and you got a right royal ass kicking for your trouble and then to compound that humiliation, your defeated armies were transported home on Royal Navy ships!!
as for your pathetic comment about:-
“I would love to see the new RN carrier and its escorts visiting the FI, and I would love to know the cost of moving such ships down to the South Cone. It will cost another fortune”
1st:- to a country facing financial implosion it may seem like “another fortune” but believe me, we can comfortably afford it thankyouohsoverymuch. By the way, are you having a nice stagflation? Got a stock pile of toilet paper have you? or are you already wiping your a*s with leaves?
2nd:- ANY money spent to keep our brothers and sisters safe in the South Atlantic is money well spent. If the situation was reversed we all know that you would just leave them to their fate.....so sad, boohoo cut them loose. But we are British and we look after ALL our citizens no matter what.
Why do Argentineans always think they are the centre of South America!
May 06th, 2015 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK has strong and deep political, cultural and economic influence and links throughout South Amervia INCLUDING Argentina.
Overman is intent on raising the bar to some mythical (like the Malvinas) height that denotes some sort of failure. No height or failure exists.
Argentinean education and propaganda (sometimes one and the same) attempts to create the impression that there is some sort of momentum building or some form of groundswell or some heightened tension.
But there isn't.
Just making a mountain out of a molehill. And unimportant and easily ignored Argentinean molehill.
@82 Your myopic view of the position of the UK in regard to its relations with Latin America is quite amusing. You should be more concerned with Argentina's relations with Latin America.
May 06th, 2015 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My perception, after living for many years in several Latin American republics, is that the sub continent is amused by Argentina and its people. Most find the antics of expatriate Argentines, especially their arrogance and their apparent belief in their superiority, to be a) abhorrent or b)nonsensical.
Furthermore, I know that several nations of Latin America only pay lip service to Argentina as far as their own relations with Britain are concerned and I have been assured by Latin American friends that if “push came to shove” they would be neutral or would be supportive of the UK.
The winners of the armed conflict between your benighted nation and mine were the native population of the Falkland Islands - certainly not Argentina and Britain does not claim itself as “winner. We were merely doing our duty in protecting our ”relations” against the illegal invasion of their territory by a usurping neighbour to the west.
pgerman---another butt hurt malvinista who just cannot accept that Argentina is wrong, in the wrong & has no valid, moral, legal or legitimate right to the Falklands.
May 06th, 2015 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get over it, pgerman.
The Falklands have NEVER been yours & l doubt that they ever will.
You just have to move on.
You malvinistas often bring up the defeat of British forces in 1807.
Do you see us, wringing our hands & crying?
No, we learned from our mistakes & got over it.
The world doesn't end because of a(in this case)minor setback.
You move on.
Your country has such great potential. Develop it & stop crying.
You limitations are your mentality.
Look at that idiot, Nestor, who tore up the oil agreement!
Because he couldn't get what HE wanted.
Now Argentina gets nothing from OUR oil.
Also if your country & its ridiculous President had a less belligerent attitude, your country would have been well-placed to provide food, labour,machinery, etc for OUR oil industry.
Now ALL that will go to other countries.
lts most likely the Chileans or Uruguayans who will be returning to their countries with fat paychecks & it could so easily have been Argentines.
You've missed the bus, pgerman, because of your country's attitude.
Sad
@86
May 06th, 2015 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You've missed the bus, pgerman, because of your country's attitude”?
Do you have any idea about the amount of money FI is wasting for it´s stupid inmigration policy? Do you have any idea of the amount of money FI is losing for it's stupid policy of denying argentine people the right to buy and own properties? Just visit Punta del Este to see the money you are losing.
F Islanders could be rich is they had some pragmatic attitude towards argentine people....You've missed the bus too, because of your country's attitude.
@78 pgerman
May 06th, 2015 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can I take it you are now ready to accept that your statement “not a single UK warship is able to call in South American ports in the South Atlantic Ocean” falls somewhat short of the truth?
Your knowledge of the aftermath of WWII is as shaky of your knowledge of naval deployments in the South Atlantic. There was never any British garrison in Italy, while money was poured into Germany after the WWII.. Haven't you heard of the Marshall Plan? Didn't you know that the punitive reparations imposed on Germany after WWI are generally regarded as one of the causes of WWII?
Your knowledge of the aftermath of the Falklands war isn't much better. Didn't you know that Reagan pleaded with Thatcher not to further humiliate Argentina once victory was achieved? Didn't you know it was Argentina that pleaded for the LAN flight to stop in Rio Gallegos?
And now do you seriously believe that 30 years after a war it didn't want the victor is going to capitulate because your President throws a public hissy fit every so often? Argentina's campaign is completely inconsequential. It's dead easy to get anybody to sign up to a resolution seeking dialogue and negotiation, who could possibly object? (Apart of course from Argentina itself). And you've managed to get some symbolic support, largely by playing the ethnic card among your fellow implanted Italo-Iberian colonial populations. But curiously the UK continues to enjoy friendly relations with everybody sane in Latin America, and with the rest of this whole world that allegedly supports Argentina. There is in fact no country anywhere prepared to jeopardise its friendly, economic, or political relations with the UK in order to advance Argentina's claim. Not one.
Its even more absurd to suggest the UK should take Argentina to the ICJ. The UK is not the plaintiff, and Argentina's Malvinas obsession is of such little import it's barely on the radar. There are real problems in the world.
@88
May 06th, 2015 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_reparations_for_World_War_II
There are real problems in the world? The UK invested and is investing plenty of money for a “non-real” problem.....
@89 pgerman
May 07th, 2015 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“There are real problems in the world? The UK invested and is investing plenty of money for a “non-real” problem.....” ?
If you are referring to UK investment in the Falkland Islands then you totally misreading the situation. Any British “investment” in the archipelago is from the private sector and is a commercial decision, nothing to do with public funds.
UK public funds SPENT(not invested) there is minimal and is to ensure that there will be no repeat of the shabby events of 1982 which, as you know, were initiated by Argentina.
@89
May 07th, 2015 - 06:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's not a question of money. Thanks to the war, the political costs for any British government of appeasing Argentina would be unbearable, and the benefits negligible. This is the situation created by Argentina, and one that it worsens every day, in pursuit of a claim that is not just unfounded but frankly contemptible. A rational society would have wised up long ago.
87 pgerman
May 07th, 2015 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think you've been paying attention.
Argentina was offered the chance to co-operate over oil industry development, and refused. That would have included investing in infrastructure. If Argentines are desperate to invest in the Falklands, then where are you all? There is no FI policy stopping you.
You are welcome to apply for a job and move to the Falklands. Just do it. O f course being a compulsive liar might disqualify you at the interview stage, but there is nothing in the immigration rules to stop you.
@87 pgerman,
May 07th, 2015 - 08:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Poor little pgerman, clutching at straws.
So when will you arrive with all your money to invest?
You'll have to form a queue with all the other RGs desperate to invest also, lol!
Good hard Pounds or Dollars though, none of that Peso rubbish.
However l personally, will accept Yuan.
@91
May 07th, 2015 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that you also forgot the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Forces_Germany
Honestly, I don't like to discuss with a liar.
@92
mmmm...it seems that you have not been paying attention. The agreement to share the benefits of the oil industry was with the idea of reducing the costs of the operation, to be able to use the closer destilleries and to avoid realstate investments in the FI. It has nothing to do with investments of private argentine capital and funds. I cannot forget that, after the war, there was a farm that was owned by an argentine person that was expropiated. Because, of this kind of attitudes you, islanders, are losing fortunes.
@94 pgerman
May 07th, 2015 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Referring to your reply to @91 exactly what are trying to prove by supplying the following link?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Forces_Germany
What is the point you are trying to make? I see no connection between @91 and the link you provide - you really are losing your way, aren't you?
94 pgerman
May 07th, 2015 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''The agreement to share the benefits of the oil industry was with the idea of reducing the costs of the operation, to be able to use the closer destilleries and to avoid realstate investments in the FI.''
No it wasn't. It was agreed between the Governments of Argentina, UK and FI under the 1999 Agreement in the interests of peace, co-operation and mutual benefit sharing. There aren't going to be any distilleries or major onshore investment in the Islands so no, that isn't what it was about.
Your own government closed the door on any investment of private Argentine capital and funds. Your own government is actively prosecuting any company, foreign or Argentine, that invests money in the Falklands and also has interests in Argentina. Surely you've noticed that. It's your attitude that is the problem. If you were to invest money in the Falklands, your own government would put you in prison. Unbelievable.
@94 pgerman
May 07th, 2015 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You state ” I cannot forget that, after the war, there was a farm that was owned by an argentine person that was expropiated. Because, of this kind of attitudes you, islanders, are losing fortunes.'
It seems to me that the Islanders are doing very well financially and have no need to look for investments from Argentina. Have you noticed that the population of the Falkland Islanders per capita income is higher than all other nations in the Southern Hemisphe indeed it is the 8th highest in the world ahead of the USA - Argentina, meanwhile, is in 68th place. (http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=67) What does this tell you?
i look forward to your comments.
“”F Islanders could be rich is they had some pragmatic attitude towards argentine people....You've missed the bus too, because of your country's attitude“”
May 07th, 2015 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If if's and but's were candied nuts, we'd all be fat as kings...
the point you seem to miss is that they don't want anything to do with Argentina.. nor do they NEED to.
Everybody there is willing to sacrifice a few fictitious pesos for retaining their liberty and lifestyles... neither of which would prosper had they much to do with Argentina.
The only guaranteed thing to prosper with Argentina is corruption and the ever-growing wealth of the Kretina-Krew.
Everybody else simply pays the price for their enrichment.
... so, they aint exactly missing out on anything are they???
96, 97 & 98
May 07th, 2015 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My friend “Hansniesund” likes to lie and twist facs and you are all beating around the bush.
@96
An agreement was reached among the Governments of Argentina and UK under the 1999 Agreement in the interests of peace, co-operation and mutual benefit. The idea was to pump oil, share these benefits but with the implicit fact that the oil could be proceesed in argentine destilleries that are the closest ones.
There are not legal restrictions for any argentine citizen to buy and own a propertty in the FI. The restrictions are for investments to exploit natural resources, especially non-renewable ones.
The FI restrictions are only (practically) applicable to argentine people that wants to live in the Islands or want to buy or own a property there. They are not freely allowed to. Argentine people can buy and own a property in Uruguay, Chile, Brasil and the United Kingdom but they are not able to in the FI. British people, cheleans and islanders can buy and own properties without any restriction (without any special authorization) in the entire argentine territory but argentine people are not able to in the FI territory.
@97
Are you denying that, after the war, there was a farm owned by an argentine person that was expropiated? After the war british properties were not affected in Argentina. British citizens were not bothered in Argentina. So don't acuse Argentina of being resentful, restrictive or undemocratic. Just to the contrary FI are the resentful, restrictive or undemocratic territory.
In addtion, take into account the example of Punta del Este and you will undertand the money you are wasting by rejecting freely argentine real state investments.
@98
“the point you seem to miss is that they don't want anything to do with Argentina”? Yes, sure !!!.that's why the take advantage of argentine territorial waters and argentine air space every time they need. When are they going to stop this? Just take regular direct flights to UK.
99 pgerman
May 07th, 2015 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which farm? I have never heard of it. It may well be true, but I think we need a bit more information than that. I don't know what your point is; it was a very long time ago. You are expecting us to overlook the fact that you invaded and trashed our country, but you're getting all indignant about one farm?? Really?
Which legislation prevents Argentine citizens from buying houses in the Falklands? We need to know this, because I don't think it's true. The Immigration rules are available to view on the FIG website. It doesn't say anything about that. Furthermore, there are Argentine citizens who have settled in the FI and bought houses. I know who they are. So how can you be right?
I'm not accusing Argentina of being resentful. I don't care about Argentina, or what Argentine feelings might be. Be resentful if you want to. However, the Falkland Islanders have every reason to feel resentful of Argentina; you want to steal our country.
Anyway, this is all nonsense. No-one is free to build or buy property in the Falklands unless they live there. Absolutely no-one, and that includes people from the UK. If you want to get property there, get a job, move there, make your life there.
@99 Pgerman
May 07th, 2015 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Personally I couldn't give a rat's arse if real estate in the Falkland Islands belonging to an Argentine citizen was expropriated. What was the purpose of the illegal and brutal invasion of the Falkland Islands by Argentina? Wasn't it an effort to expropriate the entire archipelago? As far as I can determine your allegation is totally false and I believe you should produce the source of your information.
2) Regarding your second point I think you must be utterly clueless. I recall that you Argentines spend much of your anti British bullshit recalling events in the early 19th Century when, in the course of a war between Great Britain and Spain, the SPANISH colonial city of Buenos Aires was invaded on two occasions by British troops and you “gauchos”, after 200 years, still resent the invasions which had nothing to do with Argentina and everything to do with Spain.
So it totally understandable why the Falkland Islanders are, you say, “FI are the resentful, restrictive or undemocratic territory. ” BUT ONLY TOWARDS ARGENTINA, there is no problem with Chile or Uruguay.
@99
May 07th, 2015 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What your friend “HansNiesund” actually likes to do is not “twisting” it's pointing out the holes in the bullshit you're peddling, in particular your never ending quest for victimhood, and your propensity to just make stuff up when you can't find anything real to work with. We've already seen recently, for example, how your shock horror expose of dastardly Brit incursions into Argentine air space was entirely without foundation whatsoever, and what's more you tried to provide in support of it an explicit admission of a campaign of provocation by an Argentine pilot.
Oh how I laughed.
But let's hear it now for the expropriated farm. Personally I don;t know if this happened, but I'd be extremely interested to find out the whys and wherefores of it. How about you provide us the name and/or location of the farm, and the name of the poor hapless victim of this dastardly Brit/Islander act? That seems like a good place to start.
Let's also have a little quiz about “resentful, restrictive and undemocratic” :
1. Which country has been nursing for at least 70 years an unfounded resentment about an event that didn't happen 200 years ago?
2. Which country has introduced restrictions on shipping in flagrant breach of its legal and treaty obligations?
3. Which country claims that it is illegal for those whose homes it wishes to seize to hold a referendum to express their opinion on their future?
Well señor pgerman,
May 07th, 2015 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Time to stop feeling sorry for yourself & time to stop lying.
Produce your proof.
lf you can't, then shut up.
This NOT your country, so get over it.
99 There are Argentines here now who own property here so your post simply isn't true.
May 08th, 2015 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0@104
May 08th, 2015 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“There are Argentines here NOW who own property here”....“now”?...after getting special permission to permanently live in the Islands. As it was once recognized “after studying each case”...
You can buv, and own, a property in Argentina without being asked, or being investigated, by the Goverment, the Nacion or the province whom you are or what are your intentions. Also any british, or chilean, citizen can buy, and own, a property without any “special” treatment. I can buy, and own, a property in Argentina, Canada, Chile, the United Kingdom but I cannot buy, and own, a property in the FI. Why?
Can an argentine company buy a farm in the FI territory? NO..but plenty of british companies have properties in Argentina. Why?
Can the argentine heirs of an islander resident inherit his/her property, or a business, if they are not living or residing in the Islands? NO. Why?
When are you thinking about giving back the farm you took out to its original owners no matter they were argentine? Not a single british interest was affected after the war in Argentina.
So, based on all these, I can say that the FI are not the “promissed paradise of freedom and equality” while Argentina is not “the dark country inhabited by fascists” full of hatred against british people after all.
@105
May 08th, 2015 - 02:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0At the risk of repeating myself, how about you provide us the name and/or location of the farm, and the name of the poor hapless victim of this dastardly Brit/Islander act?
Or how about some reference to the FI legislation that treats Argentines differently from anybody else?
@105 pgerman
May 08th, 2015 - 06:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Several people have requested replies from you and you never reply.
I am awaiting full replies to my @95 and @97. Please be polite enough to reply.
@105 pgerman:
May 08th, 2015 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You can buv, and own, a property in Argentina without being asked, or being investigated, by the Goverment, the Nacion or the province whom you are or what are your intentions. Also any british, or chilean, citizen can buy, and own, a property without any “special” treatment. I can buy, and own, a property in Argentina, Canada, Chile, the United Kingdom but I cannot buy, and own, a property in the FI. Why? ”
It is very easy to understad such a difference. The countries you mention have tens of millions of inhabitants and large areas. It is impossible for a foreign power to take over these countries ju by purchasing land. On the other hand, Argentina has an agenda to take over the Falkland Islands, enshrined in the very constitution of the Argentine Republic. If they were free to buy land in the F.I. they could rather easy set up firms, with the only aim just to buy land. And if they were free to settle there they could just persuade a number of persons to go there and soon outnumber the native inhabitants. It just needs a few thousand persons. So it is perfectly understandable that the Falklanders have to protect the themselves agasist such attempts of av “civil invasion”. As long as Argentina does not drop its territorial claim F.I. must be very carful to let any Argies in.
@108 Swede,
May 08th, 2015 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0And pgerman knows this.
All RGs know it & their crooked government would try it on if they thought that they could get away with it.
They will try ANY sneaky underhanded trick to gain the Falklands & they have no shame.
lf it were up to me l would ban ANY RG from even visiting.
We can get along quite handily without them!
105 pgerman
May 08th, 2015 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who said Argentina was a 'dark country inhabited by fascists'? Nobody, apart from you.
Look, I'm about done arguing with you. The Falklands immigration laws are designed to prevent land and property being owned by absentee landlords. We have decided to do that, because we think that it is in the best interests of our economy and society.
You can buy a farm if you want to. You just have to be prepared to live on it and farm it. There is no 'special treatment' for Argentines.
I think you want 'special treatment'. You want us to make it easy for you to take over our country by sabotaging the economy and swamping us with immigration. Now why on earth would we want to do that?
There is no parallel at all between your mythical 'farm' after the conflict, and British interests in Argentina. Britain wasn't trying to take Argentina away from its people by force.
@34 Relax dude. Never told you to go anywhere. I only meant the British administration will leave. You are most welcome to stay in our country.
May 08th, 2015 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@111 lslas something-or-other,
May 08th, 2015 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But thats just it sr, this is NOT your country.
lt is ours.
Clear now?
@108 & 110
May 08th, 2015 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, let me express that from my point of view the islanders are honorable people honestly making their live in the place where they were born so they derserve respect. In addition, the fact that two countries claim the islands due to historical events make them a sort of “victims of history” that they are not responsibile for. I also understand their will to keep on being part of the british crown.
That's why I have always mentioned that the best solution would be thought based on the principle of “one country two systems” to protect islanders identities and life style.
The fact that “new comers” change the identity of a place is part of the issues in modern societies. In USA, in the UK, in Canada and even in Argentina where Buenos Aires seems to have been “invaded” by inmigrants from the surrounding countries and people there are fiurios about that.
From my point of view the current immigration laws in the FI were designed by “the metropoli” to keep the islands “as much british as possible” for decades to protect UK interests.
If argentine people were able to invest in properties in the FI plenty of funds would enter the islands making the islanders rich based on real economic factors. If these argentine people respect he islands laws nothing would happen but it is quite clear that in the future the influence of islandres with “latin” culture will change their position towards Argentina and the other way round.
So, from my point of view the current laws want to protect the inrests of “the metropoli” instead of protecting the islanders. And this is a sort of “ethnic cleansing”. Not democratic at all.
But you must still bear in mind the small population on the islands. An influx of just a few hundred or parhaps 1000 Argentines would make very large inpact on the “ethnic composition”. One thousand Argentines in the F.I. would be same as some 10.000.000 “Anglos” moving to Argentina over a very short time, settling down, and start claiming English as an official language &c.
May 08th, 2015 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The “one country two systems” principle is taken from the China-Hong Kong relation. But there are hugh differences. The population of Hong Kong has always been mainly Chinese in language, ethnicity and culture. So, HK ruled by China is far more natural than FI ruled by Argentina.
Thank you for discussing in a civilized way. Too many of the “pro-Argentines” on this forum are not so polite.
113 pgerman
May 08th, 2015 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, but this is all in your own head. There is no ethnic cleansing in the Falklands. Instead there is a vibrant community comprising many nationalities, including a sizeable and growing Chilean community. You are very likely to hear Spanish spoken in the shops in Stanley.
The Chilean immigrants did exactly what I recommend you do; they applied for jobs, were appointed, and moved, in many cases making a new life in the islands.
I know what you are saying. There just isn't any evidence for it. Not a shred.
The Falklands immigration regulations were designed by Falkland Islanders. They have nothing to do with the 'metropole'. We are not victims of anything.
If you don't like your immigration regime and it makes you furious, I suggest you agitate to change it to something more similar to ours.
@pgerman
May 08th, 2015 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are no specific restrictions on Argentines moving to the Falklands and buying land but they, like anyone else, would actually have to the Falklands. These laws were brought in because a large portion of the Falklands were owned by absentee landlords who employed locals on very low wages and most of the money was going out of the Falklands and not being reinvested.
“From my point of view the current immigration laws in the FI were designed by “the metropoli” to keep the islands “as much british as possible” for decades to protect UK interests. ”
The current immigration laws were written and enacted by local lawmakers not by “the metropoli” to ensure that immigration came in as a trickle and was easily manageable. The immigration process is the same for a Brit, an Argie or a Russian. Immigration laws are going to be reviewed in the near future as at the moment they encourage short term contracts higher up rather than people wanting to lay down roots (although quite a few contractors do end up laying down roots and staying).
“So, from my point of view the current laws want to protect the inrests of “the metropoli” instead of protecting the islanders. And this is a sort of “ethnic cleansing”. Not democratic at all.”
I can't really see this myself as the Falklands are the most culturally diverse they have ever been with many residents coming from Eastern Europe, South America and St Helena with a smaller, but larger than ever before, proportion coming from Asia and Africa.
“Argentina has learned from Gandhi to be patient and to wait. We have learned from him that in the end people will get what is theirs and get what they want despite the amount of time it may take,” said Daniel Filmus,”
May 08th, 2015 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, Danny Boy, the Falkland Island people won't have to wait to get what is theirs, they have the Falkland Islands already.
And they won't have to wait 25 years either.
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