MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Greece 'Yes' and 'No' voters tied for Sunday's referendum, shows latest poll
Greeks packed city squares for dueling rallies late into the night Friday, as polls showed a dead heat between the 'yes' and 'no' camps ahead of a bailout referendum Sunday that could be Greece's most important vote since it joined the European Union. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesHe should be the new president of TDC: he certainly has the 'gob' to lie with a straight face.
Jul 04th, 2015 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who GAF anyway, not me?
@1. If you don't GAF, why comment?
Jul 04th, 2015 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How about reality? The European Commission desperately wanted another sign-up. The EC is crooked so it connived at some false accounting to indicate that Greece had met the appropriate criteria. With such an important matter as accession to an economic bloc at stage, who wouldn't check all the data? Didn't Greece get told to expect economic miracles? Who could really blame them? And here we are, years down the road. Syriza was elected with a mandate to oppose austerity. Given the many EU pronouncements about “solidarity”, what might Greece expect?
What is it getting? The Troika (EC, ECB and IMF) are quite prepared to sit back and watch Greeks, and others in the country, DIE! Reports say that, by Monday, there will be no money and no medication. The Troika is prepared to stand by and watch starvation, life-threatening illness. So much for “solidarity”.
But, at least here in the UK, we can see the truth about the EU. It's all about power, privilege and money. Mostly for the Commissars. The people of the UK should remember this!
It shouldn't be beyond the competence of a 5 year old child to work out how to help Greece survive and make a start on repayment. What does it matter to the EC, ECB and IMF if the money isn't repaid for 20, 30, 40 years? It's not their money. The money comes from the taxpayers of the world. Why not ask them whether they want to see Greeks dying on the streets?
Europe has clearly stated they regard this as a referendum on being in/out of the Euro zone and probably the EU as well.
Jul 04th, 2015 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet this clown is telling his people that a “no” vote will strengthen his hand in negotiations that are never going to happen, if there is a no vote.
EU creditors are not going to change their insistence that Greece implements the reforms it has already agreed to, in order to get the bailout funds it has already received.
Only then will they talk about debt relief, anything else would not go down well with the (mostly German) taxpayers back home. Greece owes several EU countries a LOT of money.
Whatever the Greeks “vote” it will not change that.
Tsipras seems to view the world through similar lenses to TinPotMan.
@2
Jul 04th, 2015 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You kind of put in black and white what I think about the EU. The English have been smart to stay out of it.
Apparently the people are so confused, that an extra box has be added to the voting form , so now you can put [ yes ] [ no ] or [ & ]
Jul 04th, 2015 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol...
4@The English have been smart to stay out of it.
So smart in fact we have stealth and no ones sees us,
Apparently they only see the British...lol
Come on Greece!!!
Jul 04th, 2015 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get out and get your country back!!!
So what if you have to de-value, who wouldn't want a cut price holiday to Greece anyway? Trade your way back to stability!! Iceland have done it so can you!!
Show everyone that the EU /EC is a LIE. We will be joining you if Camer-moron ever grows a pair.
@5 Sorry about that.
Jul 04th, 2015 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6
Yes!! Don't let the cradle of Western civilisation sink like that. Eternal Greece.
I have lived in Greece and Argentina and both are quite happy to tell you that virtually all the population thinks that paying income tax is ok as long as they do not have to pay it.
Jul 04th, 2015 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 2 Conqueror
Jul 05th, 2015 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0To keep an overview.
Simples. :o)
@3. Strangely, all over the EU, people, ordinary people, support Greece's stance.
Jul 05th, 2015 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Equally strangely, Germany thinks it paid proper compensation to Greece years ago. Curiously, taking into account currency changes, Germany has paid nowhere near what the nazis stole. Get some real information. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32202768
And if Germany paid the €279 billion it owes? Wouldn't clear all of Greece's debts. But it would give Greece a chance to get on top of its debts, introduce proper administrative and economic measures. Post WW2, how much money was Germany given? Under the Marshall Plan, Greece was given 25% of what Germany was given? Obviously, it was important to counteract the soviets, but why should the aggressors have been given 75% more. Quite reasonable for Germany to pay. In fact €1 trillion wouldn't be unreasonable.
@9. Does that indicate the intelligence level of a puppet meerkat?
@ 10 Conqueror
Jul 05th, 2015 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Does that indicate the intelligence level of a puppet meerkat?”
I wouldn't mind as long as I had all the young ladies cooing over me!
:o)
@ 10 Conqueror
Jul 05th, 2015 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As things stand, it doesn’t matter how much money you give the Greeks, they will still spend it all on living like the French can’t afford to do and soon be back for more.
Without structural reforms like working (actually working, not just thinking about turning up) 40 hours a week, 48 weeks a year, paid 12 monthly salaries a year not 14, till you are 65+ and meanwhile PAYING TAX.
Greece is not going to get any better.
And the Germans the French and the rest, know this.
Only the Greeks still seem to think otherwise.
Currently looking 60/40 for No.
Jul 05th, 2015 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The ECB cannot and will not extend its lending so Grexit is now the only option.
The Banks go bust this week so this will need to happen within days to prevent a humanitarian crisis. It will be interesting to see what proportion of the 60% understood they were voting for Grexit and thus will be willing to stomach what is about to happen to them.
@13 Redrow
Jul 05th, 2015 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Greek Gov told them a “No” vote would send them back to Brussels with a mandate to negotiate a better deal.
They neglected to mention that there was no better deal to be had, as far as the rest of the EU was concerned.
An exercise in democracy which is about as effective in changing the outcome as rain dancing is in changing the weather.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/193168/greece-running-on-empty
Some say, it will still take weeks r even months, before Greece either stays part of the EURO, or leaves,
Jul 05th, 2015 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the German lady will go and speak to the French man on Monday.
with a needle and cotton.
@14
Jul 05th, 2015 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With half the votes counted it's now 61/39 so the decision has been made. They will be using Drachma by the end of the week, albeit as a parallel currency in thr midterm rather than permanent exit. As long as they understood that then this is an impressive stance. But if they voted No to get a better deal then they will quickly realise they were lied to by Syriza. There isn't even time for negotiations anyway. The banks become insolvent on Wednesday and go officially bust soon after. When banks fail, the associated insurance companies go with them so the Greeks won't be able to drive their cars, which won't matter because their employers won't be able to open their doors without public liability insurance. Whatever else happens the Greek government needs to get a shift on. I'm not sure if this is a perfect example of a Pyrrhic victory for Tsipras, I guess as a Greek he is better placed to say.
It looks like those crazy Greek B*st*rds have done it!!!!
Jul 05th, 2015 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33403665
Thank god for the Greeks!!!
Someone on twitter posted a quote from our own Winston Churchill who said :-
“Hence, we will not say that the Greeks fought like hero's but that hero's fought like Greeks”
This is a victory for democracy. This is people power over a corrupt mis managed political system that has continuously s**t on them for the past five years.
This is about the Greeks saying enough is enough!! watching their economy collapse, seeing unemployment at 25%..... People can only take so much when they see no hope and they feel they are not being listened to. Camer-moron would do well to see what has happened in Greece and TAKE NOTE!!
This is why democracy does not work in the EU and this is why this has happened.
For Greece now, short term pain, long term gain.
Now Greece can go back to the Drachma, de-value and then trade themselves back to good health in 10 years, just like they did in Iceland, without the EU looking over their shoulders and saying “You can't do this and you can't do that!!”
All the “get us out of the EU” camp will look at this and say “This is exactly why we shouldn't stay in”
All the “Let's stay in the EU” camp will know that this is the day that their great EU dream started to fall apart.
Nice one Greece!!!
Not forgetting this is great news for the UK.
Jul 05th, 2015 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We stayed out of the Euro debarcle even thought Tony Blair was for it.
Now we will have a free and fair choice on the whole EU and unless we get what we want we will be out too.
And of course the EU has free trade agreements with it's closest neighbours, they all of course then pay no money into the EU coffers.
This is a funny thread where...:
Jul 05th, 2015 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some of the most vociferous Anglo detractors of the Argxit of 2001 are the staunchest defenders of the Grexit 2015...
Some of the most adamant Anglo supporters of the idea that we Argies are brainwashed don't even notice that their WHOLE Anglo Media Machinery (including, of course MercoPress), has frolicly brainwashed them this whole last week about the Yes' and 'No' Greek voters being tied for Sunday's referendum....
Anyhow, Think is happy with the Greek resolve and regrets only having to hands to applaud the Hellenic people.
@19
Jul 05th, 2015 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reason is that this situation is not quite as simplistic as it was for Argentina. Argentina wasn't part of a currency union for a start.
To be fair there were much lower expectations of Argentina both at the time of your default and now - you can always be relied upon to do the wrong thing.
Greece's default will have a huge affect on some very large economies, which in turn will influence the whole planet, To be frank, I wish they would cut their losses and just default, it will be tough for a while but, they will get past it and so will the rest of the EU. Its a bit like cutting off a gangrenous leg to save the rest of the body.
What it does mean form the UK is that having us leave next year on top of Greece will be the absolute last thing that the EU wants, so I expect our Prime Minister will be getting just about everything he asks for.
19 Think
Jul 05th, 2015 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Some of the most vociferous Anglo detractors of the Argxit of 2001 are the staunchest defenders of the Grexit 2015...”
agentina was part of the EU and left it in 2001?
I THINK you know you are wrong before I even say anything.............
Geeeeeeeeee.........
Jul 05th, 2015 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Turnips...................as far as my eyes can see..
@ Think
Jul 05th, 2015 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here are the most recent polls from 4 different companies. I don't recognise their names though, they sound distinctly Greek to me (Though we all sound barbarians to them of course ;-)
Metron/Parapolitik - Y 46, N 47
GPO/Mega TV - Y 44.1, N 43.7
Alco/Proto Thema – Y 41.7, N 41.1
Uni of Macedonia/Bloomberg – Y 42.5, N 43
One of your weaker conspiracy theories. Just because the prediction was wrong doesn't make it a conspiracy. The polling data looked close.
@21
Jul 06th, 2015 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think you were already wrong before you said anything.
Argentina was in a “de facto” monetary union in 2001: 1 Peso: 1 dollar. 24% unemployment rate (at least).
Just because Argentina didn't formally belong to a bloc like the EU, does not mean that we can't compare 2001 Argentina to 2015 Greece.
This isn't an example of democracy winning out over some impersonal super-state, this is the end-game of Greece lying.
Jul 06th, 2015 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Greece lied to get into the euro. Greece lives beyond its means. There is a culture of entitlement where paying not paying tax is seen as a right. Where over-staffed and over paid government jobs are seen as an achievement and largesse from the state instead of a waste of taxpayers money and resources.
Greece's GDP is about the size of Queensland or Oregon or Iraq. It isn't that big a deal. It will not bring down the euro or the EU. It will only strengthen them both. Institutions only evolve and strengthen and grow through crises.
The US Civil War and the Great Depression didn't destroy the US politically or economically, but they did shape the future. Just like droughts in Australia have shaped our culture and economy. Each drought is a set back that helps the country to reshape itself next time.
Greece is better off outside the euro. It doesn't want to subscribe to the high level of standards for managing its economy and currency. It never had the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic that has shaped the German view of currency. It hasn't had the empire of the UK that means the UK looks outwards to the world instead of inwards to the EU.
Greece may be the cradle of western civilisation however that is it. Now it is just a small peripheral country with less than 2% of the EU's population.
Greece has decided not to change. It has decided that it doesn't need less government workers, that people still don't need to pay taxes or even pay for the train in Athens. That if they just hold out long enough the money will flow again. By not reforming (like Argentina failed to do) it thinks that it can ride out the storm and everything will return to 'normal'.
Perhaps it will, but Greece won't bring down the euro or the EU, just its own economy (in the short term). The world will move on very quickly but the bankers will hold out for much longer.
and the most populous greek city outside of greece will just get a little bit bigger...
Jul 06th, 2015 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0@26
Jul 06th, 2015 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now Frank, don't be cryptic and tell me what city that is.
@25
Skip: You are absolutely right about the Greeks' attitude towards reform. 'State' isn't everything and there's no way a state can grant anybody a comfy life.
The “State” isn't the answer. However, if you're bleeding, you'll try a band aid if you have the chance.
Crisis tend to bring people to their knees. I hope this Greek crisis help Greeks to acknowledge that they can't live beyond their means so that they ultimately don't end up making the same mistakes that we in Argentina have done. We've have wasted it. I really hope for the Greeks to be smarter.
Hardship often makes people smarter and keener to develop higher skill sets.
Tarquin
Jul 06th, 2015 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not sure Greece will learn its lesson as more than a decade on the euro didn't manage foresaw the old ways.
As for the city, it's the city both Frank and I live in. A city where Greek is still a commonly spoken language and yet those Greek immigrants manage to pay taxes and live without bloated state apparatus and pensions. I think Frank might live just outside of Melbourne but I live in Brunswick where plenty of shopkeepers still serve in Greek.
@19 Think
Jul 06th, 2015 - 07:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is a funny thread where...:
Some of the most vociferous Argentine detractors of the Falklands referendum of 2013 are the staunchest cheerleaders of the Greek one in 2015...
From a pommy newspaper a few years ago ..' But in the 1970s many returned to Greece after the junta fell and it is estimated there are about 100,000 Greek Australians living in Greece now.'
Jul 06th, 2015 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0This exodus will make the flight of 20,000 'Australians' from Lebanon in 2006 look like very small beer.
@17 toooldtodieyoung
Jul 06th, 2015 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Under a third of the Greek economy is involved in exports, so a de-valuation doesn’t really help them.
In fact they import a lot, especially things like medicines which they can barely afford now, the corresponding increase in import costs resulting from a de-valuation, would by itself cripple the Greek economy.
@19 Think
Don’t be silly think, we (Anglos that is) are actually not involved in this, either way.
Prophets of doom predict dire consequences for the Euro/EU/World economy, what tosh, the Euro will strengthen as soon as Greece is out, the EU too for that matter.
Only your brave Hellenic people are going to be left living in a Modern Greek Tragedy, of classical proportions.
According to the unmighty EU,
Jul 06th, 2015 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a spokesman stated today that the referendum was illegal, and they will be force to do it again,
Apparently the question was also illegal and not factual , so Greece may well be forced back to the polls,
remind me of Ireland, does it not.
The EU will never let her go, at least with someone else's money , and besides the Germans want their money back.. just saying like
(29) Hans Niesund
Jul 06th, 2015 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not even the turnipiest of MercoPress's many Turnips would dream about contesting the right of the Hellenic People to hold a Referendum about Hellas future...
But I Think that..., for example..., Ozzie Skippy or Frank the Yank would somehow dislike the idea of those 150.000 Greek Australians holding a Referendum in Melbourne to convert some 10.000.000 Australian square miles into Spartan Territory....
I even Think that most Engrish posters in here, you included would raise an eyebrow at the idea of Soho's Chinatown Sino-British inhabitants holding a referendum to convert that part of London into Sovereign Chinese Territory...
That's exactly why most Argies, me included, frown at the idea of some implanted British Citizens deciding ANYTHING about our South Atlantic Territories...
Anyhow... I can read on the above comments that ALL of the Anglo posters in here still succumb to the brainwashing by their “Free Press”...
Let me tell you all what I Think will happen with the Greek Issue....:
1) The Greeks called the EU politicians bluff ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkWS9PiXekE) and now, those same EU politicians will have to realise that the EU is a Political and Social Union Project..., NOT a Bankster' Club...
2) Greece will be bailed out of its financial dire straits under very favourable terms and, of course, remain in the EU and the Eurozone...
3) No Pasarán...
El Think
Not before the have another referendum they wont..
Jul 06th, 2015 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 33 Lunatic
Jul 06th, 2015 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“That's exactly why most Argies, me included, frown at the idea of some implanted British Citizens deciding ANYTHING about our South Atlantic Territories...”
You really need to stop drinking the hooch you are distilling for yourself in the forlorn hope of retaining those few befuddled brain cells if you believe that crap.
@33 Think
Jul 06th, 2015 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You might have a point if Melbourne was some hundreds of miles off the coast of Australia, had never been part of Australia, and had been occupied by Greeks long before Australia ever existed.
Likewise, you might have a point if London's Chinatown was situated round about Madeira or the Canaries somewhere, had never been part of the UK, and had been occupied by Chinese long before the UK ever existed. But prrsonally I doubt we'd be any more bothered by that than we are by the fact that the Faroe Islands belong to the Faroese.
Mind you, I don't think we ever had the conquistador mentality you've inherited, and the kind of kneejerk Latino-supremacist world view it has evolved into wouldn't be considered acceptable state policy in any more enlightened democracy. But I guess it's kind of handicap you get stuck with when you have belief based on faith rather than reason.
I have no crystal ball, but I wouldn't be nearly so sure about the Greek outcome. Merkel is by no means alone in the euro group, and domestically she might well prefer tobooze rather than Schaeuble. There will almost certainly be. Another attempt at a euro-fudge, thats's what the EU does best, but there is little room for maneuver. Some of these people are nearly as bad as Peronists for painting themselves into a corner.
33 Think
Jul 07th, 2015 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you know very well, they are Our (British) S. Atlantic territories, are not, never have been and never will be Argy.
Argentina is a S. American country and an extra regional power to the S. Atlantic/Antarctic.
Not to mention that the Islanders are one of the few peoples on earth, who can genuinely say that they are not an implanted population at any stage of their history.
You on the other hand are an Indian murdering, Creole Conquistador, Planter Bastard.
Free Patagonia, arm the Mapuche, one Planter one bullet.
“Shoot the Dane”, “Shoot the Dane” - *to the tune of the old ANC song*
After all, Boer, Dane, a Planter is a Planter, BANG!!!!
As for Greece, you just don’t get it do you, either way now they are proper fucked.
The EU elites don't want Greece to leave because it will ultimately create a domino effect with the rest of the PIGS ( remember those).
Jul 07th, 2015 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The EU (EURO) was a failed experiment that needs to go quietly into the history books.
It was bad policy and never should have happened.
It should be strong trading block with mutual assistance treaties all around.
My guess is that's what will eventually happen as all of this rolls out
Think of it like this, USA Canada letting Mexico El Salvador Honduras, Guatemala etc all have access to the USA Canada markets, live/work there without a problem, have our benefits etc etc etc. It would never never work.
One day you idiotic statists and world gov't hoepfuls will finally understand.
.Gripping Drama: France, Italy to Split Eurozone Not Greece - Spanish Media
Jul 07th, 2015 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150629/1023983032.html#ixzz3fETCZ79i
Italy and France are the creators of the debt avalanche, the mountain looming over the EU. Both countries are characterized by weak progress in the economy, rising unemployment and an increase in the number of poor.”
Italy's debt now accounts for 259% of its GDP and France’s is already at 280%, with Italy's budget deficit at 3% and France’s at 4.2%.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150629/1023983032.html#ixzz3fETCZ79i
@38 Of course that would never work. You guys would need to pay fairly for all the cheap labour and produce you get from them at 1/5 of the price.
Jul 07th, 2015 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 040. Their products are worth what we pay for them. Its the same reason Argentina cant export profitably. Lazy people making crap nobody wants. They should figure out how to make good products people are willing to pay for and quit whining about life being unfair. Nobody wants to hear it and the care even less.
Jul 08th, 2015 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0@41
Jul 08th, 2015 - 02:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about produce and labor, not products.
I wasn't event talking about Argentina.
I'm sorry, but I don't see the connection.
As I said at (19)... This is a funny thread where...
Jul 08th, 2015 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An Engrishman tells (at 36) this humble Argentinean the following...:
”I don't think we (the Engrish) ever had the conquistador mentality you've inherited, and the kind of kneejerk Latino-supremacist world view it has evolved into wouldn't be considered acceptable state policy in any more enlightened democracy.”
I say...: I luuuuuuv Engrish humour...:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html
Another Engrishman tells this humble Argentinean (at 33) the following...:
“Free Patagonia, arm the Mapuche, one Planter one bullet.”
I say...:
“One planter, one bullet”???
Hmmmmm.... That would mean some 50.000 bullets to kill them British Planters of Patagonia...
Including some 2.000 souls of Falklands/Malvinas lineage...
And my current half Scottish girlfriend...
Good Ol' Engrish way of protecting a few by killing many...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html
Works every time, now get up against that wall, you Indian murdering, land thieving, Creole Squatter Bastard.
Jul 08th, 2015 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@43
Jul 08th, 2015 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's quite an interesting book but as with the Mercopress the real fun as well as the truth tends to emerge in the discussion. Try this one : http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/18803/has-britain-invaded-most-countries-in-the-world
For example, the French, Belgians, and Netherlanders were more than pleased to see us after our invasion of France in 1944, although it has to be said the Germans were rather less enamoured. But there you go, context is everything.
Now, where can I find the invitations issued to all those Scandinavians and Italo-iberians who've ended up in South America?
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!