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Judge removal from Cristina Fernandez case triggers more suspicions

Saturday, July 18th 2015 - 08:48 UTC
Full article 79 comments

“If they say I committed suicide, look for the murderer. It's not my style, investigate”, said ironically Argentine judge Claudio Bonadio when he was asked how he felt after having been removed from the case looking into alleged money laundering and tax elusion in one of Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner family businesses in the hotel industry, Hotesur. Read full article


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  • Briton

    Admits nothing,
    denies everything.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    I can sense a stampede of Argie trolls heading swiftly in this direction...

    He is right to be afraid. A brave man!

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    It stinks. Why do the Argentine people allow this? Is it because they draw comfort from knowing that if they break the law they can just pay off enough people and get away with it?

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • PDG0192

    There's a lot to be said for democracy. And for the separation of judiciary and politics. I imagine the malvinistas will have a lot to say about this.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    Judge not lest ye be judged is an unusual basis for running a legal system.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Just wait until next year.
    They will still have plenty of piano wire in BA to take care of this dirty group.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    The “Frog Prince” - yes I said it first - appears to have developed not just a second or third but a fourth receding chin - albeit the fourth is just as weak as the first. All this further enhancing his regal anuran like appearance.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    Is he a transgender person? Because he looks like it.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    Bonadio later backtracked on his clearly inappropriate comment. After being removed from the Hotesur case, he conducted search warrants in government departments. This judge, who faces formal accusations (not from the government) of letting expire several of his legal processes, is clearly aligned with the opposition and determined to try and do as much damage as possible before the election, using his position.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @9. Anyone aiming to topple the corrupt, criminal, Kirchner government is entitled to use any means. Incidentally, who made the “rules”? Wouldn't be the Kirchner cow would it?

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @ Enrique Massot


    And he will end in jail like the judge “Liporace” who was senteced to 4 years of prison and prohibit to take any other public job for life for bad conduct and peculation by the N° 5 Federal court.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Because anyone who dares to question the K's ends up dead or in jail, right?

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    The sad part of this is that the Kidiots on this board think its a good thing that he was pulled from the case.

    It is flabbergasting how stupid they are, simply flabbergasting.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @14 Blindly devoted to a cult like fangirls but they don't actually live under the K's regime.

    Jul 18th, 2015 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_troLLimpic_games

    3 shot dead in Maine, another 5 shot dead in Tennissee, another 2 shot dead driving in the highway in California... and well, just another typical day in NorthAmoland.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    “Because anyone who dares to question the K's ends up dead or in jail, right?”

    Nope, it is because in Argentina even a bad judge can go into jail, former presidents, militaries, bankers, etc.

    In Argentina Tony Blair would be in jail, like Gordo B. or Bush can you see the difference?

    I know that can be hard for you to understand because you don't like to respect the law as you and your friend YankeeBobo have shown several times doing the “Wetback” illegal trick in Argentina and avoiding to pay taxes.

    So I don't undertand from what moral ground your think you have any right to lecture and criticise others when you have have a lot to of corruption at home.

    Bankers cheating libor index to get more profit, Pedophile in public service, royals cheating insurance companies reporting fake robbery, the son of a PM illegally selling arms in Africa, UK base companies paying bribes to gain contracts like BAE system, etc, etc, etc.

    Just wonder how much UK politicians get paid in bribes from UK based companies.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 06:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @16 Distract, distract, distract.

    Argentina has no rule of law. Clearly, you have not been to Argentina for a very long time, if ever. I dare you to go and live there. But remember to pay off the local police chief or your home will be burgled. And if you are robbed on the street, the chances are it will be a police officer off duty.

    You have not explained what tax you think I owe in Argentina. You can't.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    A long time ago Toby said the USA UK were the only places in the world that had serial murders. My response was everyone has them its just in Argentina the Police are too stupid to figure it out and catch them.

    Dany, The definition of corruption is way different. CFK has stolen upwards of U$20B. In the USA pols lose their jobs for a couple U$1000 mistake on thier taxes. We also don't have brothels filled with teen ( 12, 13, 14) y/o Paraguayan and Bolivian children for sale some of them owned by judges!
    The rare newsworthy instances you find in the UK USA EU papers pale in comparison to the everyday violence and corruption that is accepted in Argentina thereby not even considered newsworthy.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • PDG0192

    @16: “In Argentina Tony Blair would be in jail, like Gordo B. or Bush can you see the difference?” My simple question is, why? If your answer is “because they did illegal things” or somesuch, is that not also case for KFC and her nepotistic ”government? Are they all somehow above the law? Wasn't Bonadio carrying out an investigation into money laundering? I believe that that is illegal for most Argentinians?

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_troLLimpic_games


    At the very least just accept that your system is just as putrid as ours. You prosecute a president for lying about sex in a court (supposedly), but not a president or prime minister for clearly purposeful misleading of entire countries and societies, to use the armed forces for their personal private war.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @19 I don't feel included to defend TB as I can't stand the bloke but the big difference is that we did hold full enquiries into his actions over the Iraq war. Argentina is so corrupt that anyone trying to investigate the President is removed; sometimes permanently.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @15. Also, another 3 shot dead in China, another 52 shot dead in San Salvador, 3 shot dead every day in Haiti, 30+ shot dead in Tunisia, 2 shot dead in southern Germany, 2 teens shot dead and 3 injured in Cape Town, 3 “goons” shot dead in Pakistan. Didn't have an intelligent point, did you?
    @16. Thinking about going “home” to argieland anytime soon? Which European country are you currently spongeing off? Probably pretending to be spanish. Is there a deportation order or Interpol Red Notice for you?
    @20. I don't follow your “reasoning”. Let's start this way. How were entire countries and societies mislead for a personal private war? How were the 9/11 attacks personal and private to George Bush? How were they personal and private to Tony Blair? You're talking garbage. As usual. Because it suits your illegitimate purpose. Let's try Galtieri & co. It takes about 30 minutes to determine that argieland has no legitimate claim to the Falkland Islands. But what did Galtieri intend? He thought he could occupy the Islands to secure a “negotiating” position. Subjecting 1,500 people to invasion, occupation, military force, terror to try to get something to which argieland has NO claim. The acts of a coward and a cowardly state. Hostages. The UK does not pay ransoms. Whether in cash or territory. Personally, I would have shipped more troops and equipment to the Falklands post 14 June 1982. While the UK built up its forces, I would have sent the 1st Armoured Division (UK) to rampage around argieland. Destroying everything with our unbeatable tanks. Artillery. Light tanks. Killer helicopters. And so forth. But we were kind. We hoped you'd understand that you could have been exterminated. In 1982, Britain was still deploying the Polaris nuclear missile. 4x16x3 warheads. And, no, the US couldn't have stopped us. But it just proves that your “system” is far more putrid. We did what was reasonable. You were criminal. You still are.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • PDG0192

    @20: I can't be bothered to discuss/argue with you. You quite obviously miss the point, whether by design or accidentally.

    All that is brought to mind when you lot start up is this:
    Sitting in the crow's nest looking pointlessly out to sea, whilst the ship is in flames below, studiously ignoring the fact that at some point there won't be a ship any more.
    Continually trying to show the rest of us up by saying there are child molesters in jail, or that we're not very good at football, does nothing for the failings in a country that is hopelessly floundering - 30-40% inflation, 30% of the population below the poverty line, a president that relies on nepotism and obscurantism. All they are doing is what Galtieri and his crowd were doing back in the 70s and 80s - taking your eye off the ball, pointing out all the bad things in the world whilst they fleece your country.

    There's little point trying to talk to you about it because you are merely blind to what is going on your own country. You ought to try “democracy”, it's not always perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than a dictatorship trying to disguise itself as a democracy.

    We don't have to live in the fear that someone is going to “suicide” us a la Nisman. Or the knock on the door in the middle of the night..........

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    “Argentina has no rule of law”

    of course it has, the problem with you guys is that you seem to have the same problem like the fanatic Islamists to integrated into other societies.

    The fanatic Islamist goes to Europe ignores the local rules and he wants to impose his law.

    He thinks that the people of the country which is hosting him is corrupt, women are protitutes and have to be killed, etc, etc, etc. Let's say Sharia law have to be in place to make him happy.

    Well guys Your rules don't apply to the rest of the world quite simple.

    I've seen people like you all the time in Europe inmigrants with the same cultural problems.

    So if you are not happy or you don't like the rules in Germany, France, Italy, Spain or in Argentina, simple don't go there and stay at home with your pijamas, kebabs fish and chips, turbants, police killing, corrupt govts, thiefer culture, etc, etc, etc.

    Now about your stupid comment.

    I live in Argentina for so long legally and not like you cheaters doing the “wetback visa scam trick” and I never have to pay any bribe to the police, public servant or anybody I never was robbed, nobody have ever scamed me or all the rubbish you posted.

    None has ever ask me a bribe or make any insinuation for a bribe or any indication that without a bribe I won't be able to do something.

    I have legal business in ARG, I have properties, I pay taxes all is straightforward and you can do it from your PC.

    Who is going to ask me for a bribe, My computer perhaps?

    The only insident that I remeber I have ever have of this kind in my life were one in Italy when a gipsy wanted to steal my wallet in Milan Station and a credit card fraud in UK by a rent a car company that police told me that this is quite normal scam so figure out how normal is this in UK.

    So how you both as tourits without residence, tax ID, bank accounts, properties, legal business, vehicles, etc. have to pay any bribe for what and to whom?

    Can you see?

    You are liars...

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    I understand that for all those people who despise what kirchnerism represents, this news must be music for their ears, because this kind of judicial and mediatic operations, confirm the reactionary view that they have about C. F. K.'s government.
    I won't put my hands on fire for the Maximo Kirchner's moral, in fact, i have said in many opportunities that i don't defend the moral of any politician, what i will always defend, are the achievements that workers could get in all these years. I analize argentine politic since so much time ago, and i know perfectly what social interests each politic party represents.
    Bonadio is one of the worst judges that we have, he has been accused in terrible denounces before the counceal of magistrates since the 90's, but he has so much support in most politic parties of the opposition, in the most reactionary sector of justice, and in the most important media groups, that's why he hasn't fallen yet.
    On the other hand, the most terrible accusation against him, in relation to the hotesur case, isn't the fact that he asked metropolitan security force to help him, the gravest act that he committed, is that he obstructed the right to defence, that's why he was taken out of the cause.
    Finally, i want to say i'm really fed up of all those cretins who try to give us moral lessons, the same hipocrites who often complain about the denounces of corruption cases that involve C.F. K's administration, are the same people who want Macri for president, when actualy some ex members of his government are being investigated accused of corruption too, in fact, even Macri will have to go to the court, accused of spy.
    It shows clearly that the denounces of corruption cases isn't what bother them the most from C. F. K's administration, actualy what all those cretins, who want to give us lessons fo democracy, won't never forgive kirchnerism, is the fact that since 2003, we aren't their backyard anymore.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @24 I don't believe you live in Argentina now. Not at all. You don't seem to understand how things work there. 50% of Argentines are on the black. Yet no one avoids tax?

    I didn't owe tax in Argentina so what are you talking about? I did put a lot of money into the economy though. Can you say that?

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NFLD

    your Sunday funny on something compeltely unrelated ..............

    Venezuelans are not exactly the most gracious losers, despite having so much practice at it.

    This from the PanAm games yesterday. The tipo that struck out to finish the game didn't even have the sense to grab the correct leg when he dove.

    Venezuela ......... keeping it classy for 194 years.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Dunny berg, you are the liar. I doubt you have been to Argieland ever. If so, you must be blind and deaf. The government is patently crooked.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    Stop telling lies please.

    You have no idea of what you are talking about and you make up things I don't know from what source you get you ridiculous figures.

    You never have employed workers in Argentina and you don't have any idea how thinks work here like Yankeebobo.

    I will give you a simple example to don't go more complex with other workers:

    My employees for full housekeeping service cost me $498,00 each in contibutions p/m to the social security system and insurance.

    You can see the form I have to fill with my accounter every month below and you will see the amount.

    Let's say less than U$s50 per month, plus salary of course.

    With this much my employees have pensions contribution, health coverage from OSECAC ( and are covered by working risk (ART insurance).

    So if an employee falls from my balcony or get a car accident or falls from the bus is covered and I don't have to spend a penny.

    So tell me, what kind of idiot will risk to pay U$s70.000, plus court cost, plus have and embargo of bank accounts and properties, plus lawyer fees for an employee's

    accident or death to save u$s50?

    Doesn't make economic sence.

    Another example: If I have something to fix and I have to call a worker the first thing I ask to him is his insurance payment (ART)

    Because if something happen to him while working in may house or office or whatever I am civil liability responsable of him.

    The same happens with companies, business, etc. none allows a single worker even entering into a contruction place or factory plant without proper insurance (ART)

    because if and accident occurs the business or company owners are civil liability responsable for the worker even if he was doing nothing there.

    Do you understand now?

    @The Voice

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    Are you deliberately stupid, or just blind and ignorant?

    If a purveyor of goods or services asks for CASH, presumably with a price discount, and no receipt - he intends to avoid charging/paying the Sales Tax, avoiding paying his Income Taxes, and he still intends to collect benefits from the State for being poor or unemployed.

    Argy social policies encourage this, and put a bigger burden on Middle Class businesses and larger Corporations that do pay tax.

    The larceny that needs to be addressed is that of the Argentine people and the Officisls that look the other way.
    Just like Greece and Spain, your 'hermanos'!

    It is the Argentines

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    I just do not believe DB lives in Argentina let alone employs people. He seems to know nothing of the way the employment market works there. It is NORMAL for 50% of workers to be off the books. NORMAL. It is more than usual for discounts to be offered for cash. The more upmarket private hotels insist they are paid into a foreign bank account. A major problem with Argentina is that everyone is trying to avoid paying into the system - except DB who is carrying the whole economy single-handedly if you believe him. I don't.

    I once challenged a rather wealthy hotel owner about his system of having money paid directly into a foreign account. I asserted that he was dodging the system. He responded that the authorities were well aware of it - the local mayor was a friend. He added that he did not feel guilty at all because if he paid more tax it would only go into the pockets of corrupt officials. That is a true account of life in Argentina, not the fantasy DB peddles.

    I am still waiting to hear about the tax I owe to the Argentine government. And wait while I check out of the window…….. nope, Interpol must have missed the phone call.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip

    If Argentina is so perfect and law abiding and working efficiently, then why is it so broke and poor?

    Why does it rank so low on government, democracy and corruption indices?

    Why is the homicide rate so high?

    Why are so many Argentinians now emigrating to Chile, the US and Australia?

    I have no doubt that Argentina functions! And there is no such thing as a perfect country with no economic or social issues.

    But Dany if you think Argentina is your heaven on Earth then enjoy it. There is no way for you to deny the facts that even the government claims it has no real growth at the moment and its “official” inflation rate is 15% which STILL makes it one of the highest in the world.

    Nor can you deny that while Argentina had the income and a standard of living that exceeded nearly all of Europe and was on par with the US and Australia ONLY in the past and it keeps dropping behind.

    I mean Argentina went from a GDP larger than Australia's to a GDP about the same size as the state I live in. And don't give me any PPP crap Dany, because you obviously lack the education to understand that PPP is a formula and it doesn't work when you have high inflation.... 15% or 28%.

    I laugh that Dany moved to Argentina. But I understand it. He made his money outside Argentina and then moved there because it is so cheap to make his wealth last longer. He would have been smarter to choose Uruguay or Brazil but then the faded glories of a faux-European society like BsAs is probably more appealing.

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Troy Tempest

    Are you really serious or what?

    A supplier of good avoiding to give you an invoice to later claim benefits as poor?

    Where have you been living in BA in villa 31?

    When I was living in Britain none gave to me a proper Invoice and always I have to pay in cash even for computers stuff.

    So according with you all these buisiness owners were so poor avoiding tax to claim later income Support?

    Let me explain how idiot you are guys with your stupid comments.

    1-Little business are registed most of them as “Monotributistas” they pay a flat fee to govt that covers VAT, Income tax and social

    security contributions. And also a flat fee to gross income to local govt.

    So invoicing you or not, they pay the same and they can go like this up to $600.000.

    Then you have to change to registered VAT business more suitable for well established companies like SA, SRL, SH, etc. and I can

    tell you that none sell you without an invoice and none is going to claim a shity subsidies for poor.

    2-Assuming your tale is correct and let's say that 50% of the economy in argentina is “black economy” as you keep saying and


    Taking into account ARG. current GDP is 620bn (nominal) and that only is computed the “white economy” from business tax declaration,


    With your figures Argentina GDP would be U$s930 billions nominal and 1.6 trillons in PPP.

    So you have boosted Arg Economy to be the 14th economy in the world after South Korea and with a per capita of U$s40.000 comparable

    to Finland and France and higher than Japan, UK and the average per capita combined of the EU.

    Let's Argentina one of the richest countries in the world.


    Can you see why peope living here is so happy then idiots?

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • PDG0192

    @33: “Let's Argentina one of the richest countries in the world. ” I'm sorry, I pissed myself when I read that!

    Jul 19th, 2015 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    YB and Elaine are merely purchasers of services - if the Argentines don't give the government their cut, don't report income, and lie in order to receive benefits - they are the ones committing a crime.

    How is that working out for you?

    Oh, yeah... crumbling infrastructure, CT Scanners abandoned in every empty lot, no toilet paper in public loo's, schools that teach the world is flat - and belongs to Argentina, lack of cancer drugs, dirty hospitals, mentally-ill running loose in the streets and calling themselves “Nostrils”, strippers flying planes for the national airline, Timmerman charging the people for his new specs frames, violent robbery rate exploding, 30% inflation, Prosecutors murdered...

    You must be so proud... !

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    Yap i forgot the “say” so what?

    Sorry bussy at the moment fighting with some Teutonic Knights in a medieval village (Campanopolis)...


    BTW ArgieLand still rich and happy country I hope you are happy too in fantasyLand....

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    It is certainly a rich country for the few working for the K's and laundering money.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 12:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @36 Dany

    Online video games aren't real...

    I understand now why you are confused.

    How often do you escape to a Fantasyland where you can actually win something?

    Hey... you won't be 14 years old forever... !

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Troy Tempest

    A non Mercosur nationals being in Arg. with a tourist visa or doing the “Wetback Trick” to cheat the Migra is in a worst situation than a Mexican with an tourist expired visa with Donald Trump as president.

    So you are out of the system just a tourits or a illegal resident alien.

    Like in EU you cannot do anything and if you are caught doing the “Wetback trick” or with an expired visa or working with a tourist visa you can be deported.

    So how can someone in this situation can grab information and make statistic over economy index or tax-evasion, etc. base on personal experience?

    Are you serious?

    I hardy know how an invoice looks like in UK my landlords in London never gave me one, to scam the HM Revenue and?

    Everyone do this in all over the world when they think you are a tourist and you have funny extrange accent. Whats is the news?

    So according with you and based on my own experience I have to say that in UK all are cheaters and 100% don't pay taxes?

    As I'm not an idiot brainwashed like you I know that this is not true.

    Landlords in UK do the same even with UK national.

    About ARG being a “cash in hand economy”

    If you have ever been in UK, you would find out that “UK is cash in hand economy” and also has a weekly salary payment system.

    80% admit they pay workmen cash in hand: Failure by tradesmen to declare earnings said to cost economy £2billion a year

    ‘Cash in Hand’ economy booming

    BTW are you an expat and having a Barclays account?

    Sorry it is going to be closed if you don't have 100k Pounds at least in your balance

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 05:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    What does the UK have to do with the tax dodging by Argentine nationals in Argentina???

    As you don't live in Argentina, and have not done so for decades, if ever, it sounds like Elaine B, Simon68, YankeeBoy, Captain Poppy, Tarquin, and others seem to know more about the underground economy there than you do.

    It's fair to say that it reflects the general Argentine malaise of not abiding by the law, exploiting the system, and exploiting one's position to line your own pockets or sell influence - yes, I'm talking about Nestor, CFK, VP Booboo, Alejandro Betts the Malvinas Veteran, the Aerolineas LA Campora parasites and others.

    Is it $2B a year lost by Aerolineas alone every year??

    If you think the propaganda tripe you are parroting is true, you are a bigger idiot than any of us thought!

    Go on, tell us that CFK is a benevolent caring mother to her people, and Maximo is a big jolly lovable Buddha... !!!



    Jul 20th, 2015 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Troy Tempest

    Shows that what YB and EB say that because a country is more likely a “cash in hand economy” is equal to “ black economy or criminal economy, or cheaters economy, etc” what is not true.

    Uk has a big “cihe” so alot of cash is in cirulation.

    Italy has little “cash in hand economy”, payments are made directly to workers into bank account by wt or by checks.

    Its is extremly dificult to cash a creck for cash and some times to make that harder they ask you up to 3 types of ID like carta d'identita, patente italiana and passport. If you want to withdraw a large amount of cash you have to make an appoint first and they will say you to pass in 2 days. Atm W is restricted to a shitty ammount, etc so everybody pay with atm cards.

    So as you can see in italy would be harder to avoid tax evation, well not becaues has one of the higest rates of tax evasion in EU.

    Sorry, should I explain that to you again?...

    If Argentina has a 50% of “ black economy” by tax evasion as you keep saying that means that the nominal GDP of Argentina is

    U$s930 billions and U$s1.6 trillons in PPP.

    BEcuase that part of the economy cannot be calculated to put into formal GDP as tax-evaders don't submmit tax forms to AFIP or international

    orgs, etc.

    Right? or do you know any tax evader that summit tax form to the tax revenue office?

    So based on that data confirmed by you and your friends all experts gurus about ARG. economy, that turn Argentina among the richest countries

    in the world with a per capita similar to France and Finland of U$s40.000 and slightly smaller than Germany.

    So after all Anibal Fernandez was so right, sure have read you post to made the calculis..

    Also Arg becomes the 14th biggest economy in the world after south Korea and the 8th biggest economy in the western world after US, Germany, Brazil, France, UK, Mexico and Italy.

    All macro-economic indicators will be affected and will turn Arg into one of the most successful economies in the world.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    41 Dany

    “Sorry, should I explain that to you again?...

    If Argentina has a 50% of “ black economy” by tax evasion as you keep saying that means that the nominal GDP of Argentina is... ”

    :-D Dani Dumkopf,
    Please show me where I said that - even once.


    In your enthusiasm to DISTRACT and EVADE, you have gone off on a ridiculous tangent.

    Look at ElaineB's post @17

    “@16 Distract, distract, distract.

    Argentina has no rule of law. Clearly, you have not been to Argentina for a very long time, if ever. I dare you to go and live there. But remember to pay off the local police chief or your home will be burgled. And if you are robbed on the street, the chances are it will be a police officer off duty.

    You have not explained what tax you think I owe in Argentina. You can't.”


    She HAS demonstrated an example of rampant lack of respect for the Law in Argentina.
    THAT is what is relevant to this article - the course of Justice is being perverted by a corrupt government in ARGENTINA that controls the Judiciary by intimidation and murder.

    The UK is irrelevant - this is the Argentines fault, alone.

    If you think corruption in any other place, makes it morally correct and legal in Argentina- you are exactly the idiot we thought you were.

    You are childishly stupid.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @42 The only thing DB has demonstrated is his incredible lack of knowledge of life in Argentina. He does not live there and never has.

    CFK's niece had the judge removed from this case. It has not been well received by the Argentine public and there is a chance of an appeal to get him back on the case. It is a dangerous time for the judge.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Dani has become unable to respond intelligently or otherwise, it would seem.

    Waiting for the inevitable embarrassingly juvenile sing-along...

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Troy Tempest

    Uff seems I have touched a never there...

    Just wonder why are you so upset?

    fearing to end up in jail with the wachiturros perhaps?

    Have you ever thought that none cares about a judged going to jail to start with?

    The judge was removed by his own fellows (other judges) so it is a quiet legal process for me and a judge has all tools to deal with this.

    Why should I be concern about a judge removed or going to jail?

    Is more importan than anyother citizen?

    Are we not all equals under de law?

    So if he goes to jail I don't care like the 90% of the Argentinians is part of the business.

    Do you believe in justice or not?

    US Judges Plead Guilty in Scheme to Jail Youths for Profit

    Do you care for this judge?

    I will tell what I think respect to justice, etc.

    Judges and prosecutors should not stay forever in their jobs as monarchs just 2 periods and then go home, because sure you will agree with me having power for so long corrupts people and judges are people as far I know.

    So leave all them go to jail to test their own medicine

    I want a democratic justice where I can vote for the judges that will judge me if anytime that happens.

    I want to see thier sworn statement made public in a web site and presented just in time like any other mortal so we can figure out how the obtain their asstes.

    Because you known judges always recieve donations, heritage from untraceable relative, his wife have a kiosko and have assets like a millonaire.

    That is what is relevant for me.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @44 Time to ignore him? His atrocious spelling is irritating me.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Yes. As I was saying, he hasn't been able to respond intelligently - he's just reiterating the party propaganda.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    So boys you don't agree that judges have to be elected in a democratic way and made public all their assets and source of income so we can judge them with our vote?

    Sounds pretty fair for me.

    We the people will be the last resort of justice and if you have done something wrong a kick in ass go home waiting to be judge by another judge.

    This would be the best judiciary system and guarrantee no corruption intregrity and honesty from judges.
    Because the corrupted can easy going into jail.

    I think I sould start to put some money on it and start a campaign for a very democratic justice.
    What do you think?

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Dany reminds me of “we are ll Chavez” Stevie. Sailing right into the loony bin.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @49 He will disappear soon.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    Now, to avoid discussing government intimidation and control of the Judiciary, he wants to talk about “democratising” Judges - in other words, sell their integrity for votes and popular party backing.

    What a moron!!

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    The way the way they use the term Democracy is not the same way as its understood in civilized societies.

    Their meaning of Democracy goes something like this, The Prez was “elected” and not matter what the law says the Prez can enforce it or not as they see fit because they were “elected”. They put all the power into a very strong Prez. They're not a smart people and don't see that this leads to a “President for life” and a dictatorship in everything but name.

    Spanish Colonial country's expect to be ruled. They are only comfortable under a hacienda mentality. They don't understand “rule of law” as we understand it and they never will.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Iron Man

    @52 spot on

    Remember when the Argentines were telling Obama to over rule Griesa, like the President had the ability to interfere in a specific legal case and tell the judge what to do. They just don't seem to understand how a proper democracy works with its checks and balances.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Troy Tempest


    Are you really so stupid or you are just pretending to be so?

    Tell me where was the integrity of this judge when doing this?

    US Judges Plead Guilty in Scheme to Jail Youths for Profit

    Judges per se don't come with integrity, honesty,transparency, etc.

    Do you have any precision instrument to measure judge integrity?

    The judge Bonadio was removed by the justice lets say for the same body and his own colleagues by misconduct.

    Period no much to comment about it. Case close, next please...

    The direct voting system for judges and prosecutors for a limited period of time is the best system available to select judges and has to be independent from politician, parties, economic powers etc.

    If his performance as a judge is not in sintony to what people demand or expect from him, he will not be elected again.

    Quiet simple, this will stop revolving doors for criminals, judges sending to jail youths for profit, ideologised judges that take more care for the criminals than for the victims, kiosk for lawyers to put out of jail criminals, connexions with politicians, media group, bankers and all these practice made in the judiciary system allover the world.

    So what are your objection to this?

    Or you are a personalfriend of Banadio?????


    The only thing you undertand is the rule of the stupid sheep.

    Ba ba ba black sheep have you any woolBaa, baa, black sheep, have you any wool?
    Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full!

    One for the master,
    One for the dame,
    And one for the little boy
    Who lives down the lane

    @Iron Man

    And your point is?

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @54 Dani

    You are trying to DISTRACT!

    What has a Judge in the U.S. got to do with corruption in Argentina?

    The Argentine Judge had the Integrity, conviction, and braveey to investigate charges against your President CFK.

    She knew she would be exposed so she had him removed and perhaps threatened.

    Nisman had integrity - he paid forint with his life - a coverup to hide a coverup!

    The Judge must be free to rule by the Law, not the whim of the mob.

    Nor should politicians be able to “remove” threaten, or murder Judges and Prosecutors because their Aunt or Cousin is under investigation.

    The President and all Officers of the government are required to follow the Law, or be impeached, and then charged.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Troy Tempest

    “What has a Judge in the U.S. got to do with corruption in Argentina?”

    A lot, because you are questioning ARG justice because a court removed a judge for misconduct what is perfectly legal and what is minor administrative issue while another court in US have sentenced a judge to serve 4 years in prison.

    You should be quiet shocked too for this judge in US and you should be also suspicious about corruption in US legal system, etc.

    But not....


    How do you know that the American judge was not framed up by Obama because the judge may be was investigating corruption in connexion with bribes, corruption linked to former governor of Illinos for example?

    After all Obama and the governor of illinois (Rod Blagojevich) were involved in a investigation over corruption and the illegal attempt to sell Obama's seat in the senate when he become president and had to resign as senator.

    He was sentenced to serve 14 ys in prison

    Waiting to here your comment about the corruption in American politicias style of life and how Obama uses his power to may be stop invstigation of corruption scandals...

    By the way what Nisman have to do with this??? absolutely nothing...

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    The Argies do not understand “ professional integrity ” Seems to me that the judiciary ( and I use that word loosely ) all have some political allegiances so I understand the thoughts behind his sacking. Tell me who decides “ the political allegiance to what party ” is it the person who is being investigated who decides?

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @57 It was CFK's niece that had the judge removed. Make of that what you will.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I was watching a tv show about why the USA/Canada/Australia has done so much better than the countries that were former Spanish Colonies.
    I wasn't really paying that much attention to the beginning of the show, they were showing what I thought were historical recreation of farming in SoAm and the current farming in the USA alas it wasn't an historical recreation but the current technology, peasants hand farming and using plow animals against our big combines etc.
    It was an interesting show.
    I don't think they SoAms will ever catch up to the English speaking countries. As technology moves faster they're going to be left behind faster.
    It will be interesting to watch.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @56 you Dumkopf

    “...what Nisman have to do with this??? absolutely nothing...”

    Stupid Troll,
    There is a direct link to Nisman and disturbing parallels- both started investigations into K coruption, both were threatened or killed - both “removed”, both nullified by the same man

    Check the article:
    “On Thursday, the First Division of the Federal Criminal Appeals Court decided to remove Bonadio from the case for alleged irregularities in the handling of the investigation, also three days after he had ordered a raid on a real estate agency in the province of Santa Cruz, targeting Maximo Kirchner.
    Rafecas is also a controversial figure since only recently he shelved the case originally presented by Special Prosecutor Alberto Nisman against president Cristina Fernandez, foreign minister Hector Timerman and other government officials for an alleged cover up of the Iranians involved in the bombing of the Jewish organization AMIA in 1994.”

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    You are lying again the court(Camara Federal) was who removed the judge and not Cristina's niece as you say.

    Cristina niece (Romina Mercado) is the president of the Hotesur corporation and by her corporate position is civil and criminally responsible

    for any wrongdoing of the company.

    when judge Bonadio start proceedings and/or criminal prosecutions actions and she was aware of that, as the top executive responsible in the company she instructed her lawyers to obtain copis of the legal records from Judge Bonadio court what is a normal procedure when someone is involve in civil proceedings and criminal prosecutions in court to know what are the accusations and to exercise her legal defense contesting the accuracy of any allegation made against her in a criminal or civil proceeding.

    So the judge duty is to provide copies of that records otherwise his is denying your rights to prepare your defense, etc.

    Well the judge Bonadio refused to provide that records when Romina Mercado lawyers asked for them.

    So the lawyers protested the wrongdoing by the judge and the body that supervises the judge (Camara federal) warned him about his wrongdoing and ordered him to provide that records to lawyers.

    And he refused to do that again while ordered a raid to the company offices an not following stardard proceedings as is the norm used by courts.

    So the the Federal Chamber of justice removed him for misconduct and evident parciality of his actions.

    So you by resuming all these legal steps to a simple “Cristina's niece removed the judge” at least is quiet confusing and is far close to the truth.

    @Troy Tempest

    Nope, you are a fanatic jihadist looking for someone else blood.

    I just wonder when you will start to post as a foot note “allahu akbar”

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    From DB:

    “@Troy Tempest

    Nope, you are a fanatic jihadist looking for someone else blood.

    I just wonder when you will start to post as a foot note “allahu akbar””

    The big reveal. They just can't help themselves.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @61 Dani

    Wow, did you just get the memo from Campora Juvenil??

    I'm sure that senior Judges and Prosecutors know the law, and how to apply it.

    3 times, different investigators in the past 6 months have launched investigations against the K's for corruption and terrorist cover ups.

    Each time, the prominent members of the Judiciary have been defamed by the government and/or threatened - one has been killed under “suspicious circumstances” - and the authorities have compromised the investigation, the official story changing several times.

    Dani, the REAL, THINKING, Argentines, are we award how dangerous it is to cross CFK.

    Government corruption is alive and well in Argentina.


    Justice for Argentina.!!

    How is your K economic miracle going - 27% annual Inflation?
    How about the REAL Poverty figures - 28.7% ??

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB


    On Thursday, the First Federal Criminal Chamber upheld an annulment petition made by Hotesur president Romina Mercado’s lawyers (Mercado also happens to be President Cristina Kirchner’s niece) and decided to remove Bonadio as judge in charge of the investigation.

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    64 ElaineB

    Facts are a bitch for poor old Dani Simpleton

    Jul 20th, 2015 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Troy Tempest

    “Wow, did you just get the memo from Campora Juvenil??”

    Nope and you?

    “3 times, different investigators in the past 6 months have launched investigations against the K's for corruption and terrorist cover ups.”


    Cristina ends her mandate in few months and you or your fellow judge will have all the time to procecute her if you like.

    Why are you so in a hurry now?

    “Each time, the prominent members of the Judiciary...”

    prominent to whom?

    Bonadio for example?

    He is a close friend of Corach one of the judges of “La Servilleta” former “subsecretario Legal y Técnico” and 2nd in line after Corach

    during Menem administration.

    Source Clarin published on 30/9/2001

    “Dani, the REAL, THINKING, Argentines, are we award how dangerous it is to cross CFK.”

    You are not, just another brainwashed and full of resentiment just wonder why?

    Jul 21st, 2015 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    We just wonder why you are defending her??

    Couldn't be you're a dupe of her personality cult??

    Weak brained fool.

    You would be better off with a Shakira poster in your room

    Jul 21st, 2015 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Troy Tempest

    Who are we to start with, mate?

    Since when to correct inaccurate data, spotting liars or telling the truth is equal to defend someone?

    BTW How is the weather in Israel?

    Pretty warm isn't?

    Jul 21st, 2015 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    Which I've does it for you, Dany?

    or this make your cobblers twitch?

    Jul 21st, 2015 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    About 6 mos ago a anti gang/drug activist said she'd probably be killed by the Police for interfering in the drug trade in the slums of BA.

    She was last night.

    Jul 21st, 2015 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger


    U.S. Government Concludes Major Public Corruption and Drug Trafficking Operation.

    Police officers part of the drug traffiking machine

    More corruption news in USAMEX

    Police Corruption
    Cops stealing weed in Texas, heroin in DC, and big sums of cash in Virginia, jail guards dealing smack, and more...

    Jul 21st, 2015 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    71. Argentina should use the USA as an example and go after CFK and Federal and Local Police for their involvement in the drug trade.
    The biggest donations to CFK were from drug lords.
    Since the Ks took over they've allowed imports of the base chemicals for Meth to rise to 16,000% over what Argentina needs for their legitimate pharma industry.

    They've given Rosario and a huge swath of BA over to the drug lords to manage.

    Dirty Ks and their drugs will be their undoing.

    Jul 22nd, 2015 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    I can understand that for some people it's too hard to wait untill december 10th, when C. F. K. leaves office, however, before supporting the decisions taken by somebody like judge Bonadio, i think you should investigate who is he really.
    As i said in my comment 25, i won't put my hands on fire for Maximo Kirchner's moral, in fact, you know i never defend the moral of any functionary, what i defend are the achievements that workers could get in all these years.
    Although you don't want to see it, the reason why Bonadio was separated from the hotesur case, is because he obstructed the right to defence,which is no more than an abuse.
    On the other hand, Bonadio has been accused in terrible denounces before the magistrates counceal since the 90's, however, if he hasn't fallen yet, is because he has so much support in most politic parties from the opposition, in the most reactionary sectors from justice, and in the most powerful media corporations.
    On the other hand, i'm really fed up of all those cretins who often give us lessons of moral and democracy, in fact, the same people who criticise C.F. K's government for the denounces of corruption cases that involve her administration, are the same ones who want Macri for president, who will be judged in justice accused of spy, beside, some ex members of his government are also being investigated accused of corruption, which is something similar to what happens with some people who used to join C. F. K.'s government, however, all those rabbles don't say a word about it.
    Perhaps, all those hypocrites don't dare to say that what bothers them, aren't the denounces of corruption cases that involve C.F. K.'s administration, what they really don't tolerate, is he fact that we aren't their backyard anymore, since kirchnerism is in office.

    Jul 22nd, 2015 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    73 Axle AARGH

    You seem to angry, and your “reactionary” ramblings, and wild accusations, make no sense!!

    “Spying”??? - Are you nuts?

    Who would Macri be “spying” on?

    Who would he be spying for, the Falklanders? British “Sepoys”??? The AMIA??

    Do you know how “mediocre” and “ reactionary” you sound ?

    You must be out of your mind. Again.

    If you didn't deserve to be insulted before, you do now!!

    Jul 23rd, 2015 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    @73 Axel ARG
    Just pay attention at what yankeeboy post #72 might be telling you. It does not matter what you feel worth defending or not.
    Post #72 is giving you a wealth of information about the current state of affairs in our beloved country.
    It is just so. We've been turned over to the narcos just like Mexico did at least 15 years ago.
    If you put your emotions aside -just carry on with me on this little exercise- and accept facts -as tough as they might seem- you will promptly realise how easily you've been lied too.

    Rosario -my home town by the way- is soon to become “South Juarez City”
    Do you think I enjoy that idea? My parents, grandma and extended family live there. When I go visit -my folks live 15 blocks from a hot zone- I clearly hear shots being fired ... from 1 am to 5 am.

    If you are really to “defend” workers' right -and whatever advancements the K administration you deem have benefitted that cause- you would certainly fall into a horrible paradox.

    That omnipresent excuse “Argentina is just a transit place for drugs trafficking” just goes to hell. Ask anyone.

    I know it feels like a slap in the face to realise this out of the words of foreigners. Our beloved Argentina! A cradle of narcos? No way!! This is the best country in the world!!

    Just try to put your emotions aside and don't take anything at face value. Lest what you hear from the gov't. It is all out there. If you don't trust what other posters here are telling you, then some fairly simply googling will get help you get the right numbers.

    Happy surfing!!

    Jul 23rd, 2015 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    75. All of my info comes from news/research articles that are easily googled.
    Axel is a brainwashed La Campora idiot.
    He refuses to see what's right in front of him

    Jul 23rd, 2015 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    I know it's quite difficult for you, but accept it or not, everything i said about Bonadio and Macri in my comment 73, is based on objetive facts, which are very easy to check.
    If Rosario is almost similar to Juarez city, the main responsable for it, is your own provincial administration, it's quite hypocritical and unfair to blame on C.F.K.'s government only. According to our national constitution, the main responsable authorities for security in the different provinces, are the governors.
    On the other hand, i really don't believe in all those cretins who often give us lessons of moral and democracy, and i already explained why, if you don't agree on my lecture, sorry, but i don't pretend people here to think like me, i just say what i think, as i have always done it.
    Respecting yankeeboy, i can only tell you that i have no problem in talking to people who don't think like me, but i'm not disposed to waste my time with reactionaries like him, who underestimate me or insult me. For a matter of dignity, i'm not interested in that kind of social scum.
    It's evident that you have deep differences with my opinions, however, everything you said in your comment, was expressed respectfully, without any insult against me, and without underestimating me. I think i have been perfectly clear, haven't i?.

    Jul 23rd, 2015 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Oh Axel, I don't underestimate you at all. You are the dumbest poster on the board and every time you post you prove me right.

    You are a brainwashed Peronista. You deserve to starve for supporting a corrupted, vile regime that has brought Argentina into another economic disaster and made people poorer and dumber over the last few generations.

    I weep for the children's lives you are ruining on a daily basis.

    Jul 23rd, 2015 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    @77 axel

    I certainly respect your political views, I am not trying to convert you or anything like that. But you shouldn't let your political sympathies blur reality.

    Granted, yankeeboy has pissed me off sometimes but you can rely on his presenting of data. Everything he said in his post you can verify if you approach the subject with an open mind.

    Also, you could say that Rosario's situation is just because of the provincial administration. Let me tell you a little secret: (and I won't be giving names, because when you say the names you get attention) There are many persons close to CFK that “are in the garlic”. You won't find that explicitly in internet, but you will learn about it f you talk to people and cross-check their stories to the accounts of other people that you might talk to. There is no way CFK does not know about it. As simple as 2 + 2.

    You can defend workers' rights and social help. I might not agree with you in the way it's done but nevertheless, we can debate about it. I find it honorable that you defend your ideas. But please don't blindly defend the people that claim to be implementing those ideas when they are actually ripping you off!!

    Can you now see the very subtle difference between rhetoric and facts?

    Every time you feel you are not being treated with respect, it is because other people can tell that your views are solely based on rhetoric and not facts. If you want to make a point, then prove it to the best of your abilities and based on the most number of facts that you can learn from different sources.

    Jul 23rd, 2015 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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