MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Over half of Argentina households belong to the middle class; only second to Uruguay
Argentina is the Latin American country where the middle class has grown the most in ten years, doubling in size, according to a report released by the Pew Research Center in the United States. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“Over half of Argentina households belong to the middle class; only second to Uruguay”
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile in a Darky small islands with bad wheather better known as Ukistan or The stabbing by the back capitol of the world, corrupts politicians are planning to send more Britons to extreme porverty having to choose from to buy some basic food to survive or turn on the heating in the next winter.
Sad, very sad...
Middle class? How is it that so many Argies are so dumb then and despite huge natural resources their average incomes are only 40% of that of an Islander?
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Copying their looney neighbour Venezuala which has more oil than Saudi is probably the answer. They are presently heading down the same track and the murder rate is increasing too.
@The Voice
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Have you ever heard about Purchasing Power Parity and that per capita is not an indicartor or people income otherwise produtivity?
Per capita is obtained from dividing GDP measured in PPP for quatity of inhabitans.
So just as for demostration purpose example, if you have a nation of 2 people and one owns an automated factory which employees the unique worker in place for a shity salary of 100 Euros and the factory has a turnover of 100 millions, etc.
The per capita would be 50millions Euros each
So what does that tells you?
That a nation of 2 is high produtive because can produce 100m in whatevr they do.
But the worker is extremly poor while the owner of the factory is extremly rich for such little economy.
Sure, using Argentina's offical economic statistics, INDEC reported that Argentina's poverty rate was below 5%...
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0All lies!
When you tell a lie enough eventually people believe it to be true.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina a Serious Country.
its not
They're using Indec numbers for this “polling”
When most of the country makes LESS THAN $5500/mo and it costs $8200/Mo for the basic basket MOST people are poor.
No you can't live on $6/day, Indec and everyone knows it.
Unless Austral Elvis can get another payday loan from China (doubtful) the implosion should happen while CFK is in office.
The anticipation is delightful.
People believe what they want to believe despite the truth. The truth is CFK's government is good at manipulation of the facts.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 06. It good at repeating lies as facts you mean....
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Yes.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3. Do you know of any countries with a population of 2 then? One of the known essences of GDP (PPP) is that it's an averaged statistic. But thanks for the example. So we can confidentally say that all argies, except 1, get a dollar. That's 42,669,500 dollars. If we take that from the total GDP, $953.029 billion, Kirchner steals the rest. One way or another. A proposition supported by the knowledge that argieland's Gini percentage is 43.6. Not too different from poverty-stricken Benin.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argie Middle Class = Falkland Islander on benefits! LOL. As it is there is no unemployment on the islands in fact there is a labour shortage.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a stupid fcuk that parody @2 is...
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comparing the Falklands to Argentina....it's all relative to the cost of living...
I'm embarrassed that he still uses my handle...
It's quite sad that he doesn't realise how stupid he is...
Ignorance is bliss...apparently....
11. Cost of living is only a small part of the equation. There are many items that are “ world” prices in Argentina due to the huge amount of their economy that is imported.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The top 10% of the earners make over U$900/Mo. U$30/day. for those mathematically challenged Rgs out there.
The top 10%!
Very telling.
While the bottom earners over 50% of the population makes less than U$370/mo.
It costs $8500/mo to not be indignant
with 40% inflation
This is nothing but lies using false data.
CFK, We have less poverty than Germany. I guess the question is what is the poverty number? Its not been released in YEARS. Hasn't been updated since $6/day to eat. Does anyone think you can eat on U$0.40 day?
Nope.
Voicy, welcome back, how are things in Dunoon? Is it raining (yet) again? Are the estate agents down at the food bank again? Are the Nats whingeing down the pub as usual? FYI electronics, motor cars and computers cost practically the same all over the world.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But...if you are living on bananas in a banana republic you may have a point ;-)
13. Electronics/Computers/TV cost 3-4X more in Argentina.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An iphone 6 if you can find one ( unlikely) costs 6mos of the avg wage.
Yeah Yankee its now clearly entering the third world. Trouble with Voice is he's obviously never travelled to these places apart when he was a batman/piper and the British Army was paying. Ignorance is bliss ;-)
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cost of living is based on basic commodities...Doh!
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hardly think one needs an Iphone 6 to survive....
Although I do indeed have one...cracked the screen already...it's like carrying a brick...albeit a rather slim one...doesn't really fit well in jeans, back pocket, I'll sit on it, front pocket it jams against my hip as I get in the car....
Facetime is useful though....anyone want a go...?
Oh and the health app is good for telling me how far I've walked or how many floors I've climbed and the weather feature is good...although always wrong in this micro environment...
Fit's nicely in a sporran though....;-)))))
@15...You are still embarrassing me...man up and change your name, be something original instead of walking in my shadow....
How about “prick”...that would suit....
Yankeeboy....Hey I payed my school tax early and got a 2% discount...eat your heart out Rockefeller....“I'm living it large”...passé I know, but applicable....
When Argentina fails, you lot so “See?”
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When Argentina gets it right, you guys go “Lies!”
Why are you so butthurt, having in mind you lot are richer, smarter, healthier AND you have iphones?
Oopps...“Paid”...
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I should have payed more attention....
16.Why do stupid people get caught up in irrelevant details?
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Iphone is an example of an item that anyone can afford in a civilized country while in Argentina the avg person has to use all of their wages for 6 mos. to get one.
Use instead; Car, TV, Laptop, Light bulbs, Laundry Soap, Shampoo, Medicine, Toothpaste, deodorant, razor blades, just about every product has some sort of imported component or patent license that needs to be paid to a foreign company and its the reason there very little of them on the shelves currently.
Everyday you get dumber and dumber..,,
You have all that and still it aches...
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here, yanqui.... Have a hug...
Ha ha ha Voicy with an iPhone? I would have thought a Doro with big buttons would be more suitable for the technologically challenged like you?
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell us, Mr MacDonald are you still banned from the yacht club?
Steve, Are you still all Chavez?
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you see the V gov't was confiscating food?
And putting margin on their gold reserves?
Do you seriously want the whole world to live like animals?
Gross
Go back to your cave.
Of course we are still all Chavez.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like we are all still Che.
And the day will come when you guys will have to pay the bill, and then you are all Chavez too, all of the sudden...
18 Trillions, yanqui.
!8 Trillions and counting... Better press that dollar up... Oh wait, you are on it...
Next what?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/venezuelas-populism-comes-with-a-price-its-people-cant-afford/story-fnb64oi6-1227454387381
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and this
Her belly bulging, Hilda Angarita hauls herself to five different drug stores in the sweltering Venezuelan city of Maracaibo until she finally finds post-cesarean patches.
“I'm giving birth tomorrow and here I am in the street. I want to go home,” says the teacher, 37, fanning herself as she rests on a bench the day before her scheduled delivery.
Over the previous nine months, Angarita's life has been consumed with searching for vitamins, calcium, diapers and medicines amid widespread shortages in recession-hit Venezuela.
Currency controls and flailing local production have fueled worsening scarcities that are now a blight of daily life for many Venezuelans - especially those expecting a child.
The shortages are compounded in places like Maracaibo, a western city near Colombia. Many here offset inflation and a depreciating currency by selling price-controlled goods across the border or on the local black market, leaving less on shelves.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/venezuelas-populism-comes-with-a-price-its-people-cant-afford/story-fnb64oi6-1227454387381
When Statism fails I am happy.
Very happy indeed
I love to see the poor idiots who support these terrible regime's suffer
and suffer a lot
Stevie, you financial sense is about as good as your friend Dany.
Go live in Venezuela and starve with the rest of the animals
It does not take a rocket scientist to see the economic situation in Argentina vs. Chile: Fuel, electricity, gas, some food prices... are cheaper in Argentina. Just about everything else is far more expensive. Technically, taxes are higher in Argentina, but no one pays their full taxes resulting in Chileans paying far more tha Argentinians.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As far as the middle class, Argentina's has been steadily declining over the past 30 years.
theaustralian... you come up with news from the only country in the world that is doing even worse than the USA...
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Angarita is lucky she lives in Venezuela... Michelle Galasso from Marysville lost her daughter to yet another school shooter in the land of the opportunities (not to study).
Over the past decades, school shootings have become more and more frequent in the land of opportunities (to die in the school cafeteria).
Lack of gun controls and an uncontrolled fear to lose the above mentioned opportunities, has driven the US society to care for their young ones as they care for Iraqi young ones.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/marysville-school-shooting/mom-marysville-victim-zoe-galasso-forgives-gunman-jaylen-fryberg-n245851
At least they don't discriminate, any optimist could argue...
I'd rather take my risk of getting killed by a random shooting in the USA rather than dying from starvation, lack of meds or random shooting in Venezuela which I may add has the most homicides outside of war zones.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quick question do you switch between the Dany account and the Stevie account depending on which great country you're bashing at the moment?
Stevie quarterly breakdown 3 2 1
@25 Chicureo - Argentina has been steadily declining over the last 30 years. $900 pesos a month, thats peanuts. Has Dany metamorphed?
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your information about the UK? Please quote your sources of information. I live in one of the largest cities in the UK and see no evidence of the conditions you describe.
You are just another paulcedron!
1/ Australia is doing worse than Venezeula. Ummm yeah sure...... Well at least we don't have as much debt as China.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 02/ You are more likely to get murdered in every single South American country except Chile than in the US.
3/ PPP or Purchasing Power Parity doesn't work when you have high inflation like Argentina let alone the fact that the official rate is a fabrication. Dany conveniently ignored this fact every single time it is mentioned by me.
@12 “CFK, We have less poverty than Germany. I guess the question is what is the poverty number? Its not been released in YEARS. Hasn't been updated since $6/day to eat. ”
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remember Kicillof doesn't want to release the figures because it would 'stigmatise the poor'. Maybe that is why they are calling them Middle Class, to save their feelings.
Skip
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Australia's problem is that basically all of it's debt is foreign, in foreign currency.
The Japanese have indeed a higher debt, but theirs is national and hence they can regulate the weight of the debt by devaluating.
Australia can just keep borrowing, which she does...
As for risking to get murdered, well, say what you want, we can still send our kids to school without having fear they get killed in masses...
It's kind of sad that you are comparing your so called industrialised countries with our so called developing countries and still you convince no one...
Well, we are blessed by the latest incarnation of 'Breakdowns R Us' who is supposed to live in Uruguay (now he has bought a house here - ha, ha, ha) but still has to go away regularly for treatment.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What amazes me is the claim about the middle class in Uruguay being among the highest in SA until I realised that the IDB HAS TO RELY ON THE DATA BEING PROVIDED BY THE COUNTRY IN QUESTION!!!!
I was certainly middle class in the UK, all achieved by my own hard work and intelligence and I can tell you this I have yet to see a genuine middle class Uruguayo.
Even my business owning friends cannot really be considered wealthy because of all the taxes that The Broad Fraud have imposed on them and their businesses coupled with the terrible power of the unions who, as in the UK are run by cretins who think only of themselves.
I am only too pleased that none of it affects me other than I pay the usual taxes.
Over half of Argentina households belong to the middle class;
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but what are the other 50%
Rich---or POOR.
Some people will believe anything, anytime , anyplace.
@Chicureo & YankyBobo
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jealous again?
Don't you like the figures of “Pew Research Center in the United States” made by own research?
And you back your objection based on what?
“most of the country makes LESS THAN $5500/mo and it costs $8200/Mo for the basic basket MOST people are poor.”
Just wonder how do you arrive to that figures?
The new minimun wage in Argentina is $5.588, again “minimun” I hope you can understand the difference in between minimun and average.
To that amount (Basic salary) you have to add benefits and productivity bonus like for example if the worker has perfect assistance or don't miss a day without justification cause.
The workers get a bonus of $750 in his first month and $1000 extra bonus in the 3er month.
So you have there $6.588 salary.
Is the worker long time employed in the company?
He get more salary
Does the worker has kids?
He receives an aditional $644 for each kid and a endeless list of benefits according the situation of the worker like if he has adopted kids, handicap kid, etc.
Plus insurance, health coverage, 2 free basic salary per year, etc.
So as you can see there is no way that the average salary in Argentina would be $5.500 as you say.
A cartonero or a Trapito considered poor in ARG makes more money in Argentina than a low paid worker in US in absolute terms idiot.
@Briton
“Over half of Argentina households belong to the middle class;
but what are the other 50%
Rich---or POOR.”
The other 50% is divided among upper middle class, low middle class, poor, rich, super rich.
The Dany diatribe again. But, no one reads it.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chuckle chuckle
36
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dani's minimum of $5,588 pesos is equal to $370 USD
I can see why $900 USD is considered wealthy.
Minimum wage is for people with legal jobs.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most people in Argentina work in “the black” and don't receive near that amount
Even the minimum is below what a person needs as the “basic” basket of $8500.
There's no good way to spin that as much as that idiot types.
What ever we do, we can't call the poor 'poor' because it will stigmatise the K's as a bunch of lying thieves.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#35 Idiot
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Jealous again?”
No, just sad and not the least surprised. Since 1971, I get to BA and Mendoza on an infrequent basis and Argentina's decline has really been depressing. The poor were better off in 1970 than they are today. Chile has an opposite situation.
Astonishing that that CFK has been stealing from the poor and hungry.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0““Not only do they [the government] hide the poor, but they also take funds from food programs,”
”47 children under 14 years old and 681 elderly people over 75 had died of starvation in 2013.”
So the government made a special fund to fight hunger in Argentina. Now it has been discovered they have been stealing from the fund.
Full article over at Bubblear.com
I am curious about this numbers arrived at by the Pew institute, usually a source of well researched data.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem I have here is that I don't see this increase in the middle class. The economy has shrunk in U$ terms and will drop lower again with more devaluation. So I can only assume that the Pew institute have used INDEC numbers.
In the second place, if we accept these numbers what they say is that our neighbours in Chile have a slightly bigger or similar size middle class to us. This was not the case a generation ago.
@42 “So I can only assume that the Pew institute have used INDEC numbers.”
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly.
@Troy Tempest
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Dani's minimum of $5,588 pesos is equal to $370 USD
I can see why $900 USD is considered wealthy.”
Do you know what is Purchasing Power Parity?
Example if I have 3 wonderful houses in Argentina and total value is 1 milion dollar and if you have a little apartment half of the size of my garage value 2 millions in Tokio who has better standard of living and who is more wealthy you or me????
I'm idiot, because you with that little box in Tokio just hardly survive while me in Argentina can live whithout working renting my 2 other properties. So I get a pension of USD3.000 per month and still hold my properties is not much but enough to live well.
And this rule applies for all comparisons so when you compare how rich is a person in this or that country you have to know what he can buy and the style of life can get with that much.
So a worker earning U$s4000 in Tokio can live worst than a equal worker in US earning half because US is a cheaper place to livein general.
The mistake that your and your fellows are making is that are comparing income without taking into account currency distotions and if your host country income could be transferred to other places only as a tourist can be i suppose.
Is like someone says I have 3 houses in Argentina that in UK in similar area will cost 30 million.
Ah! I'm rich, nope doesn't work like that.
So any Favio in BA working in bank earning 30k pesos p/m lives far better than one Mohamed in same position in UK earning 5000 pounds
1 apartment in London close to Knightsbridge of 100/125 sq m costmin between U$s6 millions to U$s9 millions
How much someone has to earn in UK to live there?
Only the very stupid would use PPP theory as a measure of wealth comparison between countries.
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://internationalecon.com/Finance/Fch30/F30-4.php
In general, the PPP theory works miserably when applied to real world data. In other words, it is rare for the PPP relationship to hold true between any two countries, at any particular point in time. In most scientific disciplines the failure of a theory to be supported by the data means the theory is refuted and should be thrown out, … tossed away. However, economists have been reluctant to do that with the PPP theory. In part this is because the logic of the theory seems particularly sound. In part it's because there are so many 'frictions' in the real world, such as tariffs, non-tariff barriers, transportation costs, measurement problems, etc., that it would actually be surprising for the theory to work when applied directly to the data. (It is much like expecting an object to follow Newton's laws of motion while sitting on the ground).
Pretty sure Dany gets dumber with every post.
Donøt you guys have any fallen soldiers to celebrate?
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it possible it's all you do? Complain about others?
If you are so wealthy and well off, why are you all so upset with life?
Stevie - North Korean elections… Bahahahaha!
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOLlool...
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you DID lol....
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Voice!
I agree... Bahahaha?
And you DID lol....
Jul 23rd, 2015 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no I did not.lol
I said==LOLlool...
humour, what a lovely word..
Glad to see you're not upset with life, at least...
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 050% middle class ... huh?
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ok then, it breaks down like this:
1. Clase media alta: 5% (upper middle)
2. Clase media media: 5% (middle middle)
3. Clase media baja: 10% (lower middle)
4. Clase media hecha mierda: 30% (etc ..)
Sure, we are full of hombres pobres.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Roughly the same amount as your pobres hombres....
@53
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh yeah ... where do you live? Argentina. It looks like my self-centered world has a lot in common with yours ... if you live in Argentina, of course.
My “pobres hombres”?
@Yankeebobo
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0The article wrote by this idiot is based on the assumption that most GDP from a given economy is produced by import/export trade what for many country are irrelevant into their GDP.
All Per capita for countries that you like to mention to show how rich they are is based on PPP, made by IMF, OCDE, etc.
http://www.oecd.org/std/prices-ppp/purchasingpowerparitiespppsdata.htm
Advantages of PPP: A main one is that PPP exchange rates are relatively stable over time. By contrast, market rates are more volatile, and using them could produce quite large swings in aggregate measures of growth even when growth rates in individual countries are stable. Another drawback of market-based rates is that they are relevant only for internationally traded goods. Nontraded goods and services tend to be cheaper in low-income than in high-income countries. A haircut in New York is more expensive than in Lima; the price of a taxi ride of the same distance is higher in Paris than in Tunis; and a ticket to a cricket game costs more in London than in Lahore. Indeed, because wages tend to be lower in poorer countries, and services are often relatively labor intensive, the price of a haircut in Lima is likely to be cheaper than in New York even when the cost of making tradable goods, such as machinery, is the same in both countries. Any analysis that fails to take into account these differences in the prices of nontraded goods across countries will underestimate the purchasing power of consumers in emerging market and developing countries and, consequently, their overall welfare.
For this reason, PPP is generally regarded as a better measure of overall well-being.
Source IMF
http://www.oecd.org/std/prices-ppp/purchasingpowerparitiespppsdata.htm
“It's kind of sad that you are comparing your so called industrialised countries with our so called developing countries and still you convince no one...”
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why are they still developing? Especially Argentina?
The reason I compare Argentina so much to other countries is because it ONCE exceeded most of those countries on most indicators.
So what happened?
How did Argentina become a developing country?
Indeed a frontier economy even?
Indeed, how come Latin America is so far behind on so many indicators? These countries have had independence for almost as long as the US and even longer than Australia has been colonised!
These countries are almost all exclusively European derived post-colonial creations and societies that after 500+ years of existence and 200+ years of running their own affairs STILL squander such well-endowed resources such as Venezuela's oil, Argentina's farmland and Brazil's population.
If only Australia had just ONE of those! But then supposedly it is our system that is failing us and not the ones in Latin America.
@56
Jul 24th, 2015 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well said Skip.
@ Skip
Jul 24th, 2015 - 03:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Why are they still developing? Especially Argentina?”
Because despite of having an economy of U$s1.2 trillions in PPP and U$s620 in nominal ER, has a long way to go to reach his full potential to keep growing economicaly.
The so called developed countries have already reached their full potential for growth.
Now lets see Australia:
$1.1 trillion PPP
But nominal ER GDP is $1.483 trillion
External debt: $1.48 trillion
What thats tells you?
Overvalued currency with a huge external debt
GDP growth driven by external debt
Anyway I don't have desire to go for so long espcially talking about Australia only I will remember you that no so long Australia was a pretty poor country until become a key suppyer of china of raw materials.
I hope you don't belive that Australia has a developed economy because is not the case Australia economy is pretty basic.
You ought to feel sorry for most of those who regularly post in MP's Argentina-related stories. The news appears to be worse every day for their own like.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 04:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Come on, people. Don't you realize your hollow rants are looking more pathetic each day?
You believe what you wish for--scoffing at statistics; smirking at good news stories and dismissing poll numbers (all fake in your informed opinion).
Now that the chickens are coming home to roost--41.7 per cent in the Buenos Aires province for Scioli-Zannini!--you continue to be in denial. However, the increased use of the “look how bad Venezuela is” reveals your desperate quest for arguments.
Your problem is you don't just despise the CFK government; you despise Argentines--pure and simple.
Not good for your blood pressure, folks.
Skip
Jul 24th, 2015 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I tell you why.
Because ALL you own, is borrowed.
ALL your wealth is product of someone elses labour.
Australia isn't more developed than any other country. The difference is that, together with the rest of the west world, they inherited the right to loans.
And borrow you do.
Pay your debts back, then we compare...
@59 Bought your ticket home yet? You really should stop reading propaganda put out by the corrupt government and go and see the reality. It will change your life.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0How is “middle class” determined in Argentina? Do they have “upper middle class” and “lower middle class”? I think this nomenclature is nonsense, whether it is applied to Argentina or any other country - it means nothing as in some places it does not apply to economic considerations but to cultural considerations.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Kirchners have banned the term 'poor' because it is embarrassing, so now they are called Middle Class.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dany, As you said PPP may be a measure of well being but it has nothing to do with relative wealth.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0I live in a major USA city, its very expensive compared to other cities in the world, I also lived in BA which costs 1/4 of what I pay to live here for housing and food. Most everything else is cheaper in the USA, electronics, cars, clothes, travel etc etc.
I choose to live in the USA because I have a much much better life than I did in BA. I am safe, I have more opportunity and I am happier.
Having more relative wealth while living in a poor country didn't make me happier. I didn't like living around the poverty, filth, corruption, deterioration, non-functioning marketplace, pickets, commando assaults, street violence etc etc. Overall it is monetarily cheaper in 3rd world countries (Argentina) but you get what you pay for I could just as easily move to WV, Rural PA, Rural NY, New Orleans, Kansas City or any of the other 2nd and 3rd tier cities of the USA and pay about the same as in BA to live yest still make U$.
You'll never understand what I am trying to explain to you because you lack the intelligence. You don't understand money, wealth, economics and how other people live in civilized societies and never will.
Its the curse of being brainwashed from an early age.
@ 63 ElaineB
Jul 24th, 2015 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your comment makes perfect sense for Uruguay also.
It is very dangerous when Gov't change the definitions of words.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Homicide, Poverty, Inflation are a few examples of words that have very different meaning in Argentina than they do in civilized countries.
Stevie, Are you related to Daniel Scioli?
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He doesn't have an arm and you don't have a leg to stand on.
@66
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can define homicide for you:
http://news.yahoo.com/official-2-dead-movie-theater-shooting-including-gunman-015727028.html
Only country I know of where you go to a movie theater and you could die (literally), before the bad guy in the film itself.
Horrendous place.
68. No matter how many links you put up of random violence in the USA it pales in comparison to Argentina.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/seguridad
Every day getting worse and worse in that terrible place.
I can't wait until the street fights begin over the last bag of beans in BA.
3 2 1....
@
Jul 24th, 2015 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you mean like sitting in a mosque and seeing the light but no virgin's,
very dangerous places mosques, especially in the middle east .
Opponents to the Kirchner government would have better to stop living in Dreamland.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Polls are giving 18 points of advantage to Scioli-Zannini in Bs. As. province. over the closest rival Mauricio Macri.
You got to be willingly blind not to see the reality when rival Macri turns around less than four weeks before the preliminary PASO elections and surprises everybody by alleging support for key Kirchner policies.
Come on. Democratic debate is welcome. Opposition is a need. Just come up with some intelligent arguments instead of the old, tired clichés.
@71 Is that when you are going to move back to Argentina?
Jul 24th, 2015 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dany and Stevie have a unique take on economics.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Debt is a liability. Always talking about liabilities without once envisaging there are assets is disingenuous. GDP is a measure of what a country produces and is NOT an asset.
Comparing a gross debt figure against an annual production figure doesn't mean that debt is incurred EVERY year, but that production figure is!
I know it is difficult for them to get their head around such basis accounting. And they would have no comeback for the A$2.05 TRILLION in superannuation saved by Australians. Larger than the external debt figures provided.
I can't think of any Latin American country where the population has locked away US$1.5 TRILLION for their future. Definitely not Argentina. Cristina has pretty much raided every money box in the country.
If people or businesses can't pay their foreign debt then they will fail. You won't see a mass panic like in China or Venezuela or Argentija where the government tries to stop Mr Market from doing what needs to be done.
If Stevie and Dany think Australia's prosperity is a mirage then fine. But our prosperity isn't just measured by our income or the size of our economy, but by our low crime, our stable democracy, our low poverty, our longevity, our infrastructure, our innovation, our multiculturalism and our low corruption.
Income is just one very small facet in our prosperity. The rest is provided by our society. Thankfully we didn't have Peron as a president 70 years ago.
73. Its also because their countries have taken on massive debt and have nothing to show for it.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina and Venezuela have unsustainable debt with crumbling infrastucture terrible schools horrible hospitals laughable heathcare but lots and lots of debt they can't repay.
Another cinema shootout in USA.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0AND your debt is a thousand times bigger....
Enjoy.
@74 YB
Jul 24th, 2015 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The US / UK are paying their creditors, Argentina is NOT.
I suppose that is “Economic Independence, according to them.
Axle Aargh would have his people believe that the IMF ”led us (Argentina) to destruction”.
In reality, their economy was tanking in the 70's, with led to political crisis and a military coup by the junta.
Of course, unlike Chile, the Argentines couldn't even get that right and it went from bad to worse.
A failed economy, they asked for a bailout ( loan), with nothing but empty promises.
Guess what - they need another bailout.
Luckily Troy, those who “got it right” in Chile back then, are getting it right today as well.
Jul 24th, 2015 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the face.
http://www.radiodelmar.cl/rdm/mira-la-funa-que-le-hicieron-al-ex-militar-acusado-de-quemar-a-carmen-gloria-y-rodrigo-rojas/#.VbFNLkvcMLY.facebook
Burning people alive is “getting it right”, in this forum....
#73 Skip
Jul 24th, 2015 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Thankfully we didn't have Peron as a president 70 years ago.”
Thankfully you had a stable democracy and respect for the institutions. Argentina can't say the same.
Since 1930, Argentina has been the mercy of its most reactionary elements, who used the army as enforcer, in alliance with central countries and large corporations.
They ended Peron's second term with a 1955 bloody coup, prohibiting peronism from political life for 17 years.
After the Cuban revolution, the U.S. decided there would not be another country following the same path. It intensified support to coups, providing instructors and training in intelligence and torture techniques local military officers in Panama's School of Americas.
Between 1930 and 1983, only one president--Juan Peron---finished his term. All other presidents were deposed by the army. Talk about long-term planning!
After 1983, president Alfonsin was constantly assailed by threats of coup d'etat.
Then the country had “disgrace” Menem, who I acknowledge, was voted in--not once but twice.
His ultra-liberal, privatizing agenda dealt the country a final, deadly blow ending up in the 2001 default.
Bad administrations? It would be an understatement. For 70 years, Argentina saw it all.
That is why electors now recognize nice, empty, non-credible promises. That is why they mistrust candidate Mauricio Macri.
In fact, they mistrust him so badly, he has been forced to change his platform just a few weeks before the preliminary PASO presidential election.
Too late, of course.
77 Stevie
Jul 25th, 2015 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Burning people alive is “getting it right”, in this forum”
Yeah, whatever... Trying to be snide, and completely missing the point.
Nobody wants violent oppression of the people ( generously, I assume you don't either) - the difference being, at least the Chilean fascists ended much of the corruption and set the country on a successful economic course - can't say the same for Galtieri and pals.
You mean for the sake of the argument, it's acceptable with a human torch or two.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 07:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0I understand it's a price you are prepared to pay...
80 Stevie
Jul 25th, 2015 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0No I don't mean that - don't put words in my mouth.
@Troy Tempest
Jul 25th, 2015 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The US / UK are paying their creditors, Argentina is NOT.”
Bull shit, non Us, non UK is paying anything just keeping alive renewing debt over debt and compromising future generation to
live in a debt burden and misery.
ARG's debt external= U$s115.7 billions 18.00% of it's GDP
ARG's debt Nat. = U$s234,98 billions 37.90% of it's GDP
Total ARG's debt: U$s350,68 billions
Total debt Ratio to GDP: 56.60%
US's debt External= U$s18.2 trillions 104.32% of it's GDP
Us's debt Nat. = U$s17.90 trillions 102.59% of it's GDP
Total US's debt: U$s36,1 Trillions
Total debt Ratio to GDP: 210%
UK's debt external= U$s10 trillions
Uk's debt Nat.= U$s2,48 trillions
Total UK's debt: U$s12,48 trillons
Total debt Ratio to GDP 451%
Living in fantasyLand or only wacthing BBC news?
Braindwashsed POM
Neither Dany nor Stevie understand economics or anything much else.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You'd have better luch teaching my cat.
She'll catch on much quicker than these two retards.
Just pay your debts, yanqui, and stop pointing fingers.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All you owe is borrowed...
@Stevie
Jul 25th, 2015 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The idiot is the greatest debtor in the world without paying at all and he likes to lecture others.
Such a prank
They have borrowed everything they own and more.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now they think they are wealthy, pointing fingers at those who haven't borrowed, calling them whatever.
It's kind of sad really, and we might want to change tactics...
Argentina had more debt than in 2001'
Jul 25th, 2015 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Much more.
Buy U$ treasuries before the riots break out.
Buy them now
It wont be long.
See Dany, like this sad, sad example at #87
Jul 25th, 2015 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He has been predicting who knows what for who knows how long for.
According to him, Argentina will default in August 2014.
According to him, it wont be long now.
Maybe we should pat him on the neck and tell him he's right, that everything will be alright...
They did default dufus.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes yanqui, and now they are out of toilet paper...
Jul 25th, 2015 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Want a hug?
@YankeeBobo
Jul 25th, 2015 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I Just wonder if you are prepared to US collapse. Are you?
US's debt External= U$s18.2 trillions 104.32% of it's GDP
Us's debt Nat. = U$s17.90 trillions 102.59% of it's GDP
Total US's debt: U$s36,1 Trillions
Total debt Ratio to GDP: 210%
Tell me how your school of economics can explain this?????
Gravity works in the whole planet and for US too.
I ope you have already applied for a Tijuana visa because someone told me that when US collapse happen they will become more restricted for US visas.
He didn't go to school.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's how he reached adulthood, survival of the skippers...
@Stevie
Jul 25th, 2015 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OOps! I understand now why all sillies comments...
Youll be long dead before the usa collapses.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Probably by being in the middle of civil unrest over the lack of food on the shevels
Just like in Venezuela now
I can't wait.
You can wait, yanqui.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have been doing so since my first posts under another name...
Fact is, all you do is wait...
How did that 2014 Argentinean default work out for you.
Was it worth the wait?
;)
Yeah its fine. I love watching Statism fail.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I find it facinating.
Venezuela destroying itself is delightful.
And Argentina is next.
Im not going anywhere and I have plenty of time to watch the kidiots starve.
I just hope they riot.
You mean you hope they riot like in USA?
Jul 25th, 2015 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You reckon the Argentinean police will kill off some poor people?
Like in USA?
They did last time.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just not enough.
we are all chavez = we are all filthy animals
You mean they didn't kill enough black people in USA?
Jul 25th, 2015 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Being a filthy animal doesn't make you qualify, yanqui.
Regardless of how hard you try.
Dany and Stevie,
Jul 25th, 2015 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The USA is not SA, like Brazil ( and others??) where the Police have nightly round ups of street children, and regular cullings of the urchins running like rats in the streets...
jeez... living the dream, in your Socialist Bolivarian Utopias.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/violent-death-claims-survivors-of-brazils-child-massacres-699359.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/violent-death-claims-survivors-of-brazils-child-massacres-699359.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/violent-death-claims-survivors-of-brazils-child-massacres-699359.html
Nah, instead you have a police that makes sports out of killing black people and a monthly school/office/cinema massacre...
Jul 25th, 2015 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What dream is that, you say?
101 Stevie/Dany
Jul 25th, 2015 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In your 'utopia',
its a GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED mandate to have their Police shoot homeless street children in the streets and Favelas, urban slums of several million people living in shipping containers like Argentina's own “Villa Miserables”.
As my links have shown, the Police were exposed 20 years ago, 1994, massacring urban CHILDREN.
20 years later, 2014, they have been shown doing the same thing, to clear the way for the world Cup.
I should say, they have continued unabated for those 20 years
- nothing has changed.
I suppose you euphemistically call violently culling (killing) child street beggars and non-people, “Urban Renewal”, or “cleaning up the slums”?
You talk of “The People”, but you have no regard for persons.
It shows in every one of your callous utterances.
-Stevie- “ideology before people”
What do you complain about?
Jul 25th, 2015 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You lot kill Iraqi and Afghan children as if they were flies.
You support the massacre on Palestinean young ones.
Is their lives worth less than Brasilian ones?
And where did I ever support the police in Brasil killing children??
Heritage of your confused world view?
Distract, distract, distract.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder how the CFK supporters on here define 'middle class'? What do you think are the trappings that make an Argentine middle class? What salary?
What does it matter how we define middle class, Elaine.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You might think someone cares about your own efinition, but we aren't on that horse...
@105 So you have no idea. Figures. Nothing of any importance to add to any discussion. That's Stevie.
Jul 25th, 2015 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course I have an idea of how I define middle class, but that's not the point, is it?
Jul 25th, 2015 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like me asking you how you define decency.
I would never agree with your answer, nor could I use it for anything of purpose...
Question, which country has defaulted on its debt the most and which the least:
Jul 25th, 2015 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK
USA
Australia
Argentina
Correct answer wins a Coke and choripan.
Alas Dany and Stevie will go hungry as they will totally refuse to answer the question.
Stupid people are always so gullible. Reading headlines and thinking theyre real.
Jul 26th, 2015 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Makes me sick
Its one of the reasons bad govt get away with so much.
Too many stupid people believing their nonsense.
#87 yankeeboy
Jul 26th, 2015 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry. Bad news for you in the Buenos Aires Herald.
”The (Argentine) economy expanded 2.2 percent in May...the biggest monthly increase in 17 months.“
”...the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) both improved their outlook for the Argentine economy this year.“
But the worst of all:
”A record 118.7 million tons will be harvested this year, historically the highest amount...”
So much for your expectation of people fighting over the last bag of beans in Argentina streets. You are ridiculing yourself, YB. Take your ideological blindfold off and begin observing the reality instead of just wishing Argentina's demise.
Because it won't happen.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/194790/economy-shows-signs-of-recovery
103 Stevie
Jul 26th, 2015 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You lot kill Iraqi and Afghan children as if they were flies.
You support the massacre on Palestinean young ones.”
What??
Where did we “massacre” women and children “ like flies”??
Do you have links to show that UK/US forces have mandate from our governments to do that?
Can you show that we “support” that?
Last I saw, the only conflict with Palestinians was with Israelis, and Islmanic splinter groups with their own agendas.
Of course, that's all a distraction, nothing to do with US/UK, and nothing to do with South America.
On the other hand, “ we are all Chavez”- Stevie, you have been telling how the Bolivarian Socialist policies of Chavez and Maduro,have worked so we for their people, and applauding the support both Brazil and Argentina give to that ideology.
We can see how economically and socially successful that model is for the Brazilians and the Argies.
you tell us how successful the Brazilians - a Police and government policy to murder children- and Arg has its modern day genocides and disasterous economic policies, visiting 40% inflation on its people.
Viva the Bolivarian Revolution!!
Thanks, SUPA TUPA Stevie!
Skip
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0The answer is Germany.
yanqui
What makes you sick, you say?
I will only read headlines from now on, and believe every word they say.
Just hold on to that sickness...
Troy
You didn't have mandate to attack Iraq, did you?
Hence, in an illegal war, all casualties are your responsability.
Do you really want me to link that stuff again? I've flooded this site a couple of times with that material already...
As for Israel, USA and UK are responable as well. The UK for illegally giving the land to the israelis, a land that didn't belong to either the UK or the jews, and USA for vetoing every decision the world has taken to stop the apartheid and carnage.
As for Chavez, I support each and every one of his decision, except his last one of having Maduro to replace him.
As for Maduro, he is not Chavez, and my support to him is only happening in your head.
I have never told you how successful the Brasilian police are at killing children.
I have told you how effective the US police are at killing black people.
I have also told you how effective your courageous army is at killing women and children. Especially unarmed ones.
I have also told you about your debts, and your abililty to live of other peoples work. As in everything you own is borrowed.
What else have I told you... Hmmm....
Stevie,
Jul 26th, 2015 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There was NO targeting of unarmed women and children in Iraq, officially or unofficially, despite what you say. The Taliban and Al Queda have been doing enough of that.
Israel,
I can think of at least twice on this forum, that we have shown your bullshit to be just that, with links. The British ended up fighting Israeli terrorists for two separate major campaigns, to support the Palestinian position, a direct contrast to your accusations - check your history.
What exactly did Argentina and SA do about South Africa? - nothing.
I think you are reading too much Communist propaganda. The biggest problem South Africa faced was Communism with Soviet backing and Cuban military. The USSR wanted a near monopoly on the world's mineral wealth and were only too happy to have the strong Right-wing government of South Africa toppled, leaving the door open for them.
Eventually, supporting Mandela was seen as a way to lock out the Communists and replace the Apartheid government.
Venzla's problems did not happen overnight.
Chavez, with help from Cuba, took them to where they are, oil-rich but in steady decline with Chavist policies being unsustainable - Maduro is just the figurehead who inherited it, and continues this policies.
He has no idea how to stop the train wreck. He knows he has the tiger by the tail and can't let go for fear of his life.
Meanwhile, you were cheering for Chavez as he took his people down that path - there was plenty of evidence it was not working, BEFORE he died and was resurrected as a bird!
You still hailed Venzla and Chavism as the great Bolivarian Revolution and an example for all South America - especially Venzla's Mercosur partners.
Are the armed motochurros attacking the people the ultimate expression of Chavism?
Crime is out of control in both Argentina and Brazil now - to a point where the Police are routinely killing homeless children.
Are these your model societies?
I would laugh except that it is so tragic and sad.
You state many ideas, originated in your head, as facts...
Jul 26th, 2015 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What do you ant me to say?
Should I fight your demons for you??
That's it - that's all you have to say??
Jul 26th, 2015 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess history is a bit inconvenient when it doesn't match your propaganda?
Stevie, it boils down to this.:
You are defending the concept that South America is doing very well, thanks, and there is nothing wrong with the SA Populist and Chavist social and economic models.
Take another look.
Is that how you want your kids to live?
Oh, but you don't live there. You live in an ordered, stable society - somewhere else.
Of course that's all I have to say!
Jul 26th, 2015 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Are the armed motochurros attacking the people the ultimate expression of Chavism?”
Are the school shootouts the ultimate expression of your democracy?
“to a point where the Police are routinely killing homeless children.”
hat routine would that be? Monday afternoons?
You are talking bullocks.
If you want a serious discussion, be serious,
Stevie
Jul 26th, 2015 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The motochurros are supported and armed by the Venzla GOVERNMENT, to break up public demonstrations against the same government.
Theatre shootings in the USA are the random acts of individuals that are mentally - ill, and unfortunately have easy access to guns.
Police Killing Children:
I included several links of Brazilian Police killing children.
Those links spanned 20 years, and the most recent was a year ago, a well-publicised campaign by government to contain the poor and control crime during the World Cup.
ie. it's state mandated.
The common denominator between Venzla, the Bolivarian Revolution Success Story, and Brazil, whose government has Leftist, and Populist elements too, seems to show the poor masses held in check by State Mandated violence.
And you have been supporting these as your model societies.
“The motochurros are supported and armed by the Venzla GOVERNMENT, to break up public demonstrations against the same government.”
Jul 26th, 2015 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Says who? You?
Or FOX News?
What is the routine then? You googling?
Google US police killing black people for the last 100 years. Check most recent case.
What does that prove?
And you support this model of society?
@ YankeeBobo
Jul 26th, 2015 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Youll be long dead before the usa collapses.
Probably by being in the middle of civil unrest over the lack of food on the shevels
Just like in Venezuela now
I can't wait.”
Ok that is an expression of desire but you didn't explain how US will pay $36 trillion.
Can you see??
No answer????
@Troy Tempest
I thought we were talking about Argentina why you have to divert the discusion involving other nations or a huge region to make your point?
In Argentina police free killing no happen and if he kills somebody he gets prosecution and has to prove that was in self defence and that
the use of force was proportional to the threat he was victim of otherwise he face a dishonorable desmiss and face criminal charges.
He cannot even shoot a dog because he is desmissed and get an internal investigation and summary with a kick in he Ass from the force.
@Skip
Spain (14 defaults)
Venezuela & Ecuador (11)
Mexico (10 defaults)
Chile (9 defaults)
France (9 defaults)
Peru (9 defaults)
Germany (7 defaults)
USA (6 defaults TCC, TDCDL, TGD, TLBD, TDCG, TMD)
UK (6 defaults)
Greece (6 defaults)
Trukey (6 defaults)
Arg. (6 defualts)
Australia (1 default record found for 1931)
Sources Kenneth Rogoff y Carmen Reinhart, Harvard univrsity US.
Mises Instituite, Austrian economics research
118 Stevie
Jul 26th, 2015 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Venzla,
I hardly think that FOX News is a worthwhile source of news - certainly not much better than the Guardian or the Independent, you use.
However,ilsen who has lived and worked in Venezuela, and still owns a business there, has posted several more reliable videos and news pieces about the motochurros.
That's not to mention the first-hand accounts she has given of her recent visits there.
Contrast that with your various tales of being an exiled 80 yr old SUPA TUPA veteran, banished to Europe
and then as a son of exiled TUPAS, living in Europe,
and then,
an then, a TUPA offspring whose ship goes near Uruguay, affording you short visits occasionally,
and then, as a Uruguano living in MVD,
and again,
as your language as knowledge was questioned, you said you lived in “Northern Uruguay” - that was later shown to be implausible.
That's not to mention, you were previously “Guzz” - living in Europe.
Guzz was banned.
You then created the “Stevie” persona.
It was very quickly obvious that you and “Guzz” were in fact the same.
At first, you denied it, and now you admit to it.
You have NO credibility, yourself.
Again, you are advocating the Venzla Populist model that uses GOVERNMENT sponsored and armed, thugs on motorcycles to intimidate and crush anti-government protestors, and a Populist Brazilian GOVERNMENT that uses the Police to violently contain the poor, including shooting children.
By contrast, and I repeat this, while there may be incidents of racial discrimination in the USA, this is only a DISTRACTION by you.
There is NO GOVERNMENT campaign to kill black people.
Meanwhile, your opinion that SA Populist and Socialist are successful and to be admired, is only that, your opinion.
- for what it's worth:-)
What are you talking about, Troy?
Jul 26th, 2015 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ilsen is about as trustworthy as yanqui with his foretelling.
He could've picked horses last week and they would still be running...
All your points made are based on FOX News, your insecurity, and Ilsens reports. With yanqui's Nostradaming as focal point.
I can only applaud...
Weak, Stevie.
Jul 26th, 2015 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are way off topic, and attempting to distract.
I have just demonstrated that your statements and perspectives lack any consistency, you contradict yourself, and change your stories at will.
It's ironic that you question anybody else's integrity!!
Back on topic:
You have supported the Chavist model as a successful example for all SA societies to follow.
You have insisted that Venzla was a key member of Mercosur, and other Mercosur nations should model themselves the same way.
Look where Venzla is now, just two years after Chavez died, but Maduro and the Cubans ensured that his policies and his legacy lived on, unchanged
It is your contention that SA societies are doing well and there is nothing wrong with the Populist model and policies.
We are asking, “How do you measure their success?”
You say you don't know, or its only relative.
Relative to what?
BTW,
Self-reporting by INDEC is laughable.
What is the reality of your model?
What are the costs?
- Economic Defaults - Arg, Venzla
- sky-high Inflation - Arg. Venzla
- devalued currencies - Arg. Venzla
- reduced purchasing power - Arg Venzla
- industries pulling out - Arg. Venzla
- Health care compromised - Arg. Venzla
- Rising crime and home invasions - Arg. Venzla, Braz.
- lack of inclusion and violent suppression of the poor - Braz. Venzla.
Keep beating the Socialist Hermanos drum!!
You have demonstrated nothing, other than your usual blah blah.
Jul 26th, 2015 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look.
USA has 18 Trillion in debt.
All its assets is in the hands of the rich and the bill will be paid by the masses.
As usual.
According to your logic, I have just demonstrated you are fooked...
More distraction from Stevie.
Jul 26th, 2015 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Forget it, you failed in your usual tactics.
Blaming the U.S./UK for South Africa, and Israel, and trying to discredit the USA for racial violence, has nothing to do with Social and Economic successes or failures in South America.
You can't argue any of your points Stevie, and you have no credibility.
And blaming Latin America for your failed economics, racial violence and pressing situation, is a cheap shot with a wooden rifle...
Jul 26th, 2015 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your arguments are hollow and you provide them with no intentions of having any other dialogue than about your prejudices.
As for your credibility, it is very much in line with the rest of the lot in this forum...
125 Stevie
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And blaming Latin America for your failed economics, racial violence and pressing situation, is a cheap shot with a wooden rifle...”
Where on this thread is the U.S./UK blaming Latin America for our “problems”?
“Your arguments are hollow and you provide them with no intentions of having any other dialogue than about your prejudices.”
I would say the same of you - much like , 'UK must negotiate the handover of the Malvinas to Arg'.
“As for your credibility, it is very much in line with the rest of the lot in this forum...”
As I said, it's ironic that SUPA TUPA Stevie is commenting on the integrity of others.
Sorry. You sound a bit steamed - stop flailing around and repeating yourself.
You are, just as I am blaming the west for your drivel....
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You set the standard, Troy. I agree it's unusually low, but hey... At least you are trying...
Please show me where - I challenge you
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You are, just as I am.”
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You show me where I blame USA for, like you say, South Africa, and you'll find your answer.
Do I have to teach you your own language?
You better put a link in there and point out what I said exactly - otherwise you are full of BS
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Darn Troy.... You still don't get it.... Shall I use a memo?
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look.
You say:
“Where on this thread is the U.S./UK blaming Latin America for our “problems”?”
I say:
“You are, just as I am blaming the west for your drivel....”
You say:
“Please show me where - I challenge you”
I say:
“You show me where I blame USA for, like you say, South Africa, and you'll find your answer.”
Get it now, or should I try a different approach?
@ 130 Troy Tempest
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are wasting your time with Breakdowns R Us, Stevie.
He has been proven time and time again to lie about things he has been told the truth of and he is going again shortly to the Mental Hospital for another round of treatment.
Just ignore him: he can't stand that, just like a little child who throws a tantrum, plays one parent against another, stamps their feet when they are ignored, BAWLS a lot, still being ignored so shuts up / retreats to the play pen and kicks the shit out of the teddy!
Serious mental illness is coming, but he ignores it.
I could alays do like you, old man, and leave for a country that offers me free healthcare, if I only say I'm a farmer and start an own company...
Jul 26th, 2015 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then I can always back talk the country in question like a weasel.
Like you.
Stevie,
Jul 26th, 2015 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nowhere did I personally blame SA for our “ problems”.
Please show where
“And blaming Latin America for your failed economics, racial violence and pressing situation,”
Just not seeing it.
Surely this is simple?
Go to the post, using a link that we can all follow, and show the quote that says the “U.S./UK blames Latin America for your failed economics, racial violence and pressing situation... ”
Nope, can't do it - you lose. Off to bed now, and no television.
Nowhere did I blame USA for our issues either.
Jul 26th, 2015 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do blame USA for their issues though, and as long as they have them, I wont listen to your advices as to how we should do to become as failed as you lot...
@Troy Tempest
Jul 26th, 2015 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0During the govt of PM Edward Heath (Tory, conservative) 1970-1974 inflation in UK was rampant up to 27% rate anualy, that last until 1983 during PM Margaret Thatcher govt. 1979-1983 with inflation rate of 22%.
Also was a huge unemployment, currency devaluation, stagnation, etc of the economy...
I hope that you don't consider Tories in UK to be populist or whatever shit you mistaken want to call certain type of govt.
Can you explain to us why conservaties, neocons, right wing, no populists, friendly market lovers govts and all that shit alike whom claim to be the kings and experts on economics matters have economic performances like dictators from an African Republic?????
Waiting your answer....
@135 Stevie
Jul 26th, 2015 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Nowhere did I blame USA for our issues either.”
I see you are backing down then.
Good!
Argentine successes following the Populist model of Chavez and others, is self-evident.
Such performance is fair game for comment, considering that this article is based on reports from Argentina that their Middle Class is growing.
The USA and UK have nothing to do with Argentine economic policies.
@135 Stevie
“...I wont listen...”
Why am I not surprised?
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/11794620_10153509564242302_1929659278691172336_o.jpg
Jul 26th, 2015 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take a look and tell me all is well.
Still Kidiots.
I can't wait to see you starve.
Just like in Venezuela.
Better yet I'd like to see you get an infection from a hospital that can't treat it because they can't import the meds.
Yeah that's more fitting.
@Troy Tempest
Jul 26th, 2015 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess you are another brainwashed who consume a lot of rubbish news and propaganda from BBC.
Who told you that Argentina follows Venezuela Model??????
can you explain what is the Venezuela Model and the Arg. model to start with????
I guess not
@138 YB
Jul 26th, 2015 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It wont affect Stevie or Dany, as they are not living in Arg.
Dany alludes to being in Germany or Northern Europe, somewhere.
Stevie alternates between exiled to Europe, and living in Northern Uruguay where he is out of touch with the mainstream culture.
Troy
Jul 26th, 2015 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say I am backing down... From what? From what I didn't say?
You really need a victory here, don't you?
Where I live is not of your concern and adds little to the discussion.
Do I care where you live when you defend the Falklands being British?
Does your whereabouts have anything to do with your point of view?
As for the mainstream culture in Uruguay, I can assure you it's not cumbia villera, as Cabeza would like you to believe.
We have far better music than that mouthcrap.
But hey, it helps your arguments...
yanqui
You gonna die before me :)
@141 Stevie
Jul 27th, 2015 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Where I live is not of your concern and adds little to the discussion.
Do I care where you live when you defend the Falklands being British?
Does your whereabouts have anything to do with your point of view?”
When you tell us everything is rosie in Argentina, when its obviously not, I have to wonder if you would say that if you lived there.
Would you want to raise your kids there?
It all comes back to your credibility.
you tell us you live in many
Troy
Jul 27th, 2015 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where did I say everything was rosey in Argentina??
I'd raise my kids anyhere on this planet. Me raising them is not an issue of where
i live.
Stop talking bullocks and blatant lies...
So things ARN'T rosie in Argentina ??
Jul 27th, 2015 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where on this planet are things rosey, Troy?
Jul 27th, 2015 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Its ok, Stevie - you dont have to answer - your waffling is enough!
Jul 27th, 2015 - 01:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are things rosey in USA, you mean?
Jul 27th, 2015 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0What is your point?
@Troy Tempest
Jul 27th, 2015 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nope you are lying again I've said several times that I'm living in Argentina...
You didn't answer the question above, may be becuase you don't have any answer????
Can you see how brainwashed you are???
USA during presidency of necon Gerald Ford Republican GOP (no venezuela party) have a inflation rate of 11% annualy
During presidency of Jimmy Carter Democrat in 1979 inflation rate was 11.3% annualy and in 1980 was 13.5% annualy
Ronald Reagan Republican, 1981 inflation rate annualy was 10.3%
Argentina is Rosy???
Well for much people yes and for another don't like te minority in extinction of “El campo” the neocons in ArgieLand, the people that complain all the time adn are the perfect “professional criers”
In fact Neocon Mauricio Macri leader of the opposition representing the conservatives and who average voter is 90 year old was adviced by his campaign manager that would be near impossible to defeat Sioli in Great Buenos Aires who has 65% of positive image there and to convince voters to vote for him because people is experincing a rosy time dure to improvements of living standards all these years.
I just read an article that over 80% of families in Argentina make less than U$35/day.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess that's better than some parts of Africa.
The Ks have destroyed the economy and Peronism has drained the hope from the people's lives.
Hyperinflation and a long depression is their only future.
and everyone knows it
@YankkeBobo
Jul 27th, 2015 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 047% or Americans don't have any savings or are in debt.
57% don't own a house
60m are poor
Do you call this hope????
You can have savings and debt.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lots of people want to rent
That's about the correct % for a good bell curve.
The difference in the USA is that parents have hope that their children will have a better life than they did.
Not so in Argentina.
I will be overjoyed when Hyperinflation hits Argentina.
tik toc
151 YB
Jul 27th, 2015 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK completely restructured their economy in the 70's and 80's, and left the double digit inflation behind them - Argentina never did, and 40 years later they're still reeling with 40% Inflation.
152. yeah that line of debate from Dany was a bit odd. UK did what the IMF recommended and now its one of the richest most powerful countries in the world (again).
Jul 27th, 2015 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has too many poor uneducated socialists to ever start evolving again.
They will continue to get poorer and dumber every year, every decade, every generation until they are on par with the Bolivians.
Just like I said they would...
Plus the “unaligned” countries hitching a ride and all their hopes and dreams on China is bearing a nice fruit ( for us). They're going to sink right along with their master and I am glad of it.
@yankeeboy
Jul 27th, 2015 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”152. yeah that line of debate from Dany was a bit odd. UK did what the IMF recommended and now its one of the richest most powerful countries in the world (again).”
Oh! bloody 'ell mate!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you ever been in UK to start with???
UK after US is the most indebted country in the world going from recesion to stagnation, high level of unemployment, shit salaries, homeles, etc.
What the hell are you talking about???
Where is the power of a nation that its citizens have to chose in between to pay the gas bill or food?
ah! I forgot you reduce poverty, homeless and unployment by shooting them on the streets, right?
Don't miss this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
Killing homeless??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
And What about to give 75 years sentence for filming police abuse????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
And abusing, kicking arresting reportes from the free press from ABS & NBC news???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUp4bDa9M3o
The American dream... Just survive another they without get a shot from the police or criminals.
Wonderful...
Dany, your obscure and irrelevant posts are meaningless to any thinking person.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you really wanted to debate about the misery of Argentine you'd never have to mention any other country.
The USA will be the richest most powerful country the world has ever seen long after your great grand children are dead.
The best your children could hope for is to be a maid to someone from one of the countries you so despise and they'd be happier for it.
YB:
Jul 27th, 2015 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the U.S. becomes more modest it may avoid catastrophes that may come from owing too much--China only holds over $1.2 trillion in U.S. bonds. I wish the U.S. well.
As for Argentina, its economy is now on a much more solid foot than it used to be--that is the reason it's growing amid a sluggish activity across the world--very different from the past.
Don't believe me: just look at the increasing popularity of CFK as she nears the end of her second term in office--very rare across the world indeed!
I pity your lack of quality as a human being--you need to have a lowly and nasty nature to wish bad to a whole country--people who have done nothing to you besides being much happier than you will ever be.
Reekie Retard, Argentina has never been in worse shape financially. It is heading into hyperinflation and yet another default.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My guess is it is about a year behind Venezuela.
Watch and see stupid
watch and see
154 “Dany”
Jul 27th, 2015 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Oh! bloody 'ell mate!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you ever been in UK to start with???”
LOL !!!
- what DO you think you sound like? :-)
My kids do a better cornball
act than that!!
It's obvious you've never been there yourself.
Neither have you been to the USA, and never will - a lot like “voice” and “Stevie” er... “Guzz”
Soy is down 14% YOY
Jul 27th, 2015 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahaha
Bye bye Brazil and Argentina
Bye Bye
@Troy Tempest
Jul 27th, 2015 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How did you arrive to the conclusion that I have ever been in UK???
Don't bet on that because you can lose a lot of money you never had.
@YankeeBobo
“Soy is down 14% YOY”
And???
And that means zero u$ to buy fuel next year.
Jul 28th, 2015 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bcra is already rinning out of its float.
I hope you own a bike.
160 Dani
Jul 28th, 2015 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0You watch too much TV
23 MONTHS of ever lower Mfg industry output
Jul 28th, 2015 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some would call that a depression
actually most
Bahahahaha
BTW are CFKs filthy spawn having more illegitimate children?
low low low class
You have to wonder where Enrique is getting his information. It is so wrong. I don't believe he is a journalist because they know how to research.
Jul 28th, 2015 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0164. Where to Think, Voice, Marcos, Dany get their info? They all sing the same song.
Jul 28th, 2015 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe its all from the same talking unicorn?
165
Jul 29th, 2015 - 03:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Get a life, YB!
166. I'd say the same to you but its a little too late :(
Jul 29th, 2015 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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