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“Second referendum on Scottish independence inevitable; question is timing”
A second referendum on Scottish independence is inevitable, according to former first minister Alex Salmond. Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr program, he said the question was over the timing which was “in the hands of Nicola Sturgeon”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesGawd we're going through the same thing here. After voting no to a republic in 1999, the left have vowed to ask us again because they believe we got the answer WRONG according to them.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 07:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0As according to Salmon, the voters don't know what they want and he will keep asking until they answer how he wants.
The UK government and not the Scottish people decide when the next referendum (if any) will be. However I think at least a decade should be allowed to pass and not just a bloody year.
Alex who...?
Jul 27th, 2015 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0He is so yesterday.....
....sour grapes....
Salmond is a bit of a fame-whore. He can't accept the decision of the people he claims to represent. I watched him being interviewed one evening last week about another issue and he started with a controversial stance but when pressed completely crumbled. All bluster and no substance.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Skip
Jul 27th, 2015 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0There shouldn't be another referendum for at least a generation. As you have said trying to force referendum after referendum on people until the vote the way Mr Salmond says they should is not democratic at all.
Also as a British taxpayer I refuse to allow my tax money to be wasted on this. Scotland had it's chance for independence. The people of Scotland voted against it. Game over.
You are right. These 'socialists' (really communists) can't understand that rule by the people means that the people decide. If they don't like the answer well tough, get over it.
Many of my Scottish friends, some of whom did vote for independence, are now glad that theydidn't get it. They realise, especially with the fall in oil and gas prices, that they'd've been bankrupt within a very short space of time.
Some of them are also p!ssed off at the SNP for refusing to allow English only matters to be voted upon by only English MPs. They see it as completely hypocritical and are regretting giving the SNP their support.
I think come the next general election the SNP may have a big surprise in store for them as they are failing to actually do anything in the UK Parliament, except cause trouble.
The SNP are failing to realise that they are there to represent their communities not their own personal political agenda's.
Time will tell I suppose.
The important thing to note is that Salmond and the SNP lied continuously throughout the referendum campaign. Look at what he promised. Scotland would be amongst the 10 wealthiest countries in the world. Scotland would “remain” a member of the EU. There would continue to be freedom of movement for goods and people. There would be no border controls. All scots would get dual nationality. There would be a common currency. The UK would continue to provide certain facilities. In other words, everything would stay the same except for bits that Salmond would choose. Much like he chose who could vote to give himself the best chance.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0But Scotland wouldn't be amongst the 10 wealthiest when the oil price dropped to less than $50 per barrel. The EU said that Scotland would have to follow normal procedures and take its turn. And there were clues that it wouldn't be an easy process. How would Scotland get free movement without being an EU member? Dual nationality and a common currency would be a matter for the UK, not Scotland.
Note that when the oil price fell through the floor, the Scottish oil industry was rapidly renamed the UK oil industry and the new first minister, Sturgeon, “demanded” that the British government acted. There's that word “demanded”. The same word Kirchner uses and we all laugh at.
Salmond can have his second referendum. Scotland can leave. The proper United Kingdom won't be bothered. There's more than £1,800 per person per year that the proper UK will be better off. The UK gets an extra 0.2% of tax from Scotland on account of the oil industry. We won't notice. But Scotland will. Before long all the “freebies” will go. Can't be afforded. Taxes will have to rise. List the UK “facilities” that Scotland will NOT have access to. How much for a passport? UK visas are around £250. Turn up at the border with those, the health insurance and adequate funds. Wait 8 hours. Watch all vehicles being unloaded and then reloaded. Admire the miles of razor wire.
Scotch referendum, yes please! Hold it the same time as the EU one to save money. Ta ta Scotland, Ta ta EU. Freedom for England.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are funny. In true EU-style, keep voting until you get the right answer, as Skip notes above. The current Dear Leader says that if the UK votes to leave the EU, it should not be allowed unless every part of the UK so votes. So if, say, only Wales voted to stay in and England, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to leave the EU, then the so-called Scottish National Party would subordinate Scotland's wishes to those of a majority in Wales. They don't want independence for Scotland, they want EU membership and direct subservience to the EU.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0The other reason for the SNP to insist on 'independence' (apart from the fact that that is what they 'do') is that as and when Scotland becomes a chilly Venezuela with less oil, they would not have to fear that their tyrannical socialist paradise could be dismantled in an afternoon by the UK Parliament.
But I really would like to see them go, and not come back. Funny thing is that no one mentioned Scots losing UK citizenship last time round. They should all lose UK citizenship if they got independence, and as they would be expelled from the UK, also lose EU membership and citizenship pending EU membership, so be unable to work or claim benefits in rump of the UK.
@7. I happen to agree with much of what you say. Let's take a look at populations. England - 53,012,456. Scotland - 5,327,700. Wales - 3,063,456. Northern Ireland - 1,850,393. A nasty pill for the SNP to have to swallow. Even if the entire populations of the three “minor” countries were to vote to stay in the EU, England's wishes would still, democratically, prevail. Can't have that! So everyone has to agree first. How is that democratic? If everyone's vote has the same worth, how come, all of a sudden, Scotland's votes are worth, say, 11 times as much as England's votes? Do we all wait with bated breath for Northern Ireland to tell all the rest of us what to do? That's the bottom line to the SNP's stupid ideas. The truth is that the SNP is trying to parlay 56 seats into a majority where they can dictate. How much would it be if the UK, i.e. England, decided to reverse devolution. During “The Troubles” the UK government decided that it could no longer permit a devolved government. Stormont lost its powers. Up north, we have a party committed to secessionism and treachery. Despite its protestations that it would work for the benefit of the whole of the UK, which it doesn't represent, it doesn't. And the reason that the UK shouldn't end devolution is what? How about martial law instead? It is difficult to see why Scotland would want to end the dominance of England, that listens to it, and replace it with the dominance of the EU, that wouldn't.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would also like to see them go. If only to laugh myself sick as they realise that they get nothing except the land. On what basis should Scotland get 9% of UK assets. It arrived with nothing, it should leave with nothing. Has it even paid proper contributions? It was broke when it joined, how could it? It would be important to expel all Scots from the real UK. How could it be a “rump” when it would be 91% of the previous UK? Was it a “rump” when Southern Ireland was allowed to leave?
”I think a second independence referendum is inevitable. The question of course is not the inevitability, it is the timing.”
Jul 27th, 2015 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0of course.
well said mr slamond.
a true hero for scotland.
@ 9 POLLY POLLY
Jul 27th, 2015 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Slamond/ Who he?
And it's Scotland you uneducated jibber-jabber speaker!
Plus, it has nothing to do with you if the Scots want to stay or go: just like the Falklands has nothing and will NEVER have nothing to do with you.
Peace!
Vomit duty today? No tips off those tight British cruise passengers again? Pauly, life is so hard. The Scotch ones are particularly tight and they are always vomiting.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do these people actually understand that they are there to govern a country, they aren't actually elected to run neverendum campaigns. Not that I care, but if I was Scottish I would expect them to be focusing their efforts on governing the country and accepting the “settled will if the Scottish people” sound familiar Mr Salmond?
Jul 27th, 2015 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The sooner we get rid of the Tartan Peronistas the better .
Jul 27th, 2015 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bring it on !
Just to play the devil's advocate here ....
Jul 27th, 2015 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the UK votes to stay in the EU, will all those who wish to be out accept the result and not demand another vote for a generation?
it seems the little englanders are a bit nervous with the independence of scotland.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wonder why.
maybe because they wont be able to steal their oil anymore?
it is time for little england to understand that that joke of british empire, that joke of “united” kingdom and that joke of having 16 colonies in the 21st century, is totally anachronic and it will be over sooner than later.
@15
Jul 27th, 2015 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear Paul you are so upset. It is up to the Scots to leave the UK if they want, it would not upset the apple cart, in fact all the rest of the UK would be £ 1800 better off if they did leave, but I think they would be stupid to want to leave.
oh my dear golfcretin, the uk would be £ 18000000 better off if they got rid of the isleteers.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0remember, the isleteers are milking the honest impoverished british taxpayer without their consent.
@14
Jul 27th, 2015 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not sure the Scots are are any more sold on the EU than the English to be honest.
@15
No. it's the little Spanish that are afraid of a referendum and have denied Catalonia the vote. If the UK was afraid, it would never have agreed to last years. You don't get to keep having referendums until you get the result you want. Lets face it, if this was Argentina Salmond and Sturgeon would have been 'suicided' by now.
@18
Jul 27th, 2015 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That may be the case, but should the in/out EU referendum be a once in a generation deal?
@17 An English family of 4 will be £7200 per YEAR better off without the Scots and probably more now oil has sunk in value. This is just about the average salary in Argieland and much more than your dad earns right now.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19 I don't think you can restrict it to a generation for either referendum because circumstances can change. In a democracy, the will of the majority has to be considered.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do think if we vote to stay in the EU - and I think we will - there will not be the kind of sour grapes we are getting from the Scottish Nasty Party. The two scenarios are different but remember Scotland did well out of bargaining on the lead up to the referendum. Likewise, the UK government will be attempting to negotiate in Europe with the threat of pulling out weighting their hand. If we stay it would be foolish to commit to never holding another referendum as it would weaken our stance.
To talk about another referendum so soon is pure nonsense from Salmond. He can't let go of the spotlight.
If we vote to stay in the EU then the UK is certainly finished,
Jul 27th, 2015 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so it wont matter anyway, and the fools will be humiliated at, all the way to merkels feet.
If Greece has taught us nothing, then we deserve what we get, NOTHING.
Seems like many posting on here have been taken in by the MSM bias regarding the SNP and the Yes movement.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You all need to read 'London Calling' by G.A. Ponsonby.
And yes, a second Indyref is indeed inevitable in Scotland IMO.
Look at the feeling of the people of Scotland who now realise they were lied to by WM promises before Indyref #1.
That's why we now have 56 SNP MEP out of a possible 59. Go Scotland.
And there we have it - the question is timing. And by that he means the oil price.
Jul 27th, 2015 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But Sturgeon doesn't agree and the SNP is beginning to turn in on itself.
@23 EscoSes Doido
Jul 28th, 2015 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really?
Most of the Scottish people I know are glad they didn't get independence. It would've been a complete disaster for Scotland.
As for those 56 SNP MPs, they were voted to represent their constituencies. They won because they said that they WOULDN'T push for independence, and many traditional Labour voters had become disillusioned with them.
Yet since these SNP MPs arrived at Westminster they seem to have forgotten why they were elected and by whom.
All they have done is show themselves up, acted in a childish manner and shown their hypocrisy, which isn't going down well with the Scottish people. These MPs are there to serve their electorate not themselves.
The next general election might be quite telling unless these MPs pull up their socks and start doing the job that they were elected to do.
Much will depend on who becomes the next leader of the Labour Party. They have a big uphill struggle to rebuild the Scottish people's trust in them.
But as I said, time will tell.
As for another referendum, it's not going to happen. The Scottish people have already spoken. Their decision was to remain a part of the UK. End of story.
Yes I know that some SNP members have been complaining that some promises haven't been kept, but they are showing their complete lack of knowledge and experience. It takes time to change things and put them into place. The constitution and the law have to be checked to ensure that it is legal. Consultations have to be done. The new legislation has to be written and then debated, and then voted upon.
All of this takes time, years even. The SNP have shown their inexperience, their naivety and their stupidity by assuming that things would change over night.
And the Scottish people can see this, they're not stupid. Just like they saw through the SNP fairy tales of a Scottish utopia where they would be independent, but nothing would change.
People,
Jul 28th, 2015 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0David has spoken, no referendum whilst he is in power,
End of, next.
@15
Jul 31st, 2015 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”it seems the little englanders are a bit nervous with the independence of scotland2
Not as half as nervous as Argentina in 20 years time, when after a failed economy, the people of Ushuaia and Santa Cruz will vote to become a territory of the Falkland Islands, in order to be governed properly and to get prosperity.
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