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Argentine Catholic Church in the dock over snatching of babies during military dictatorship

Friday, August 28th 2015 - 06:17 UTC
Full article 107 comments

High-ranking officials of the Argentine Catholic Church were implicated in the appropriation of babies from detainees who were held in Cordoba province’s La Perla clandestine concentration camp during the last military dictatorship, journalist and writer Horacio Verbitsky, the head of the CELS human rights group, testified. Read full article

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  • golfcronie

    All this under the name of religion, and how many wars were over religion?

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    'Just say 10 Hail Marys' and you will be absolved Jorge' the RCC twat told the military dictator.

    Yet another example of the RCC sucking up to a government. It never changes does it, now The Dope of a Pope is doing the same with TMBOA.

    No wonder the RCC 'congregation' in the UK is dropping this despicable Roman paedophile ring like a hot potato.

    Cue “Gordo the apologist” to defend the indefensible. Take a tip Gordo: DON'T FUCKING BOTHER, it indefensible and remains indefensible.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Colla Cantri Club

    What more can expect itself from the church of the Italian immigrants in this land.

    They came, they stole.

    They stole silver, they stole children, they stole our people of Quilmes and many many more.

    True people of this land look to Inti not Rome.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Great_coral_aTrolL

    Correct on Roman Craptholism, but let's also point out more people have died due to Protestantshitism than any other major religion after ISLAM in the last 100 years.

    Protestanshitsm are nothing but cult of personality cults where one deranged man creates a church and brainwashes dozens, hundreds, even thousands of people. 95% of all mass killings in churches and killing of others in Christianity last 100 year are not by Craptholics or Ortodoxes.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @3

    You have some historical mistakes and wrong concepts.

    The Quilmes people (actually the correct way to write their name is Kilmes people) were moved from their original place by the Spanish Empire. They started a revelion by the year 1660 (around this year) ironically under the lead of a spaniard adventurer. The revelion was controlled and defeated so the spanish authorities, to avoid any other incident, moved them to a place where they could be easily controlled.

    Neither italians nor any Argentine government had anything to do with this issue....

    Historically, those who were used to steal kids and young women (called “cautivos”) were the araucanos basically to use them as slavers and to claim bounties to the argentine authorities.

    By the way, if you want to keep to writing post based on racism hate I would suggest you must study some history before...

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @2 ChrisR

    You just don't read my postings. In a recent reply on another thread I made it quite clear that I do not condone wrongdoings and illegal acts committed by the the clergy of the Roman Catholic Church. I find their behaviour totally repugnant.

    Either you are blind or just fucking stupid - I haven't decided yet. Maybe surely the latter! You are a prime idiot!

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #5 pgrman

    Weren't you on another thread a couple of days ago raving about how the Chilean military was guilty of civilian atrocities? Yet untold number of new born infants were stolen by your ilk before murdering their mothers.

    You are a hypocrite, and complete idiot.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @7

    My post is about argentine history something about you know nothing.

    There are some differencies between you and I.

    Your racism and fascism are beliefs I don't have, among others.

    In addition, I have always criticized and condemned the crimes of the argentine military governments had made. Unlike you, that fiercely defend a bloody coward criminal such as Augusto Pinochet.

    Your insults, same as peronist bloggers ones, are a proof that I am in the right way.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Colla Cantri Club

    @5
    Where is my racism?
    Where is my hate?

    I only say the truth.
    The mistaken concept is yours.
    The italian, the spaniard and the authorities of the port are all foreign in this land. They all stole from us. The Araucano did not steal from us. He looks to Inti, we look to Inti. The italian, the spaniard, the port look to Rome.

    Do you always “condemned the crimes of the argentine military”? Always?
    Or only when his crimes are against the immigrant peoples? Do you condemn his crimes against los onas, tehuelches, querandies?

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #8 pgrman

    Classic Argentine response...
    ...you catch them with their pants down with a goat and they immediately deflect to Pinochet...

    You say: “...argentine history something about you know nothing”

    Oh, I beg to differ. Like much of the world, I know quite a lot about your country's senseless repeated massacres of the Mapuche people and disregard for human rights. Since Argentina became a nation, it's been guilty of such heinous crimes such as the brutal near genocide of the Paraguayan populace during the Guerra de la Triple Alianza, your multiple massacres of striking laborers by you military, invasions (as well as near invasions, such as in 1978) of Chile that included theft of our national territory, murder of our countrymen, your unforgivable invasion of the Falklands in 1982, the shocking murder of over 22,000 people during the dirty war and finally the continued complete disrespect for common decency and continued outrageous corruption.

    The world knows about actual starvation in certain areas of Argentina and yet Christina goes before the FAO in Rome declaring that your country's poverty rate is lower than several Western European countries...

    I won't get into the countless treaty's you've violated, or foreign loans you've defaulted upon, nor the illegal confiscation through blackmail of foreign investment made to your country.

    Yes pgerman, “there are some... differencies between you and I.”

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @9

    Neither the mapuches nor the incas/coyas (please, allow me to consider as one people) belonged, in an important number, to the current argentine territory.

    Unlike you, I don't qualify people because of their origin. We are all human beings no matter our origin. For the argentine law and National Constitution people they are not collas, mapuches, canadian, italian, spanish, inuits, welsh or whatever...they are all human beings.

    Of course, the concept of “one person one human being” (with rights and duties) is almost 160 years old in Argentina. As a result I cannot condemn the mapuches for their deadly malones as if they were crimes committed during the current times. If so we will agree that malones were, without any doubt, crimes against humanity as UN status).

    Based on your lack of knowledge of argentine history and your racism I must inform to you that argentine people have plenty of different cultural origins. Our ancestors were from Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany, Wales, England, Ireland, different jew origins, Syria, Croatia, Armenia and recently, the late new comers, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay, etc. Original people from different “true” argentine ethnicities are currently around 400.000 people that’s the very same number of people with British background. We are all argentine people.

    Make the effort to start thinking this way: “one person, one human being with rights”

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 6 gordo1

    I am not blind, although I do have to wear reading glasses.

    I am demonstrably not stupid.

    By definition of paragraph two, I am not an idiot.

    You, however, have conclusively demonstrated your delusions in respect of 'god' or whatever you consider him / she / it to be.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @12 You have now confirmed to me that you have NOT read my postings or alternatively you are just not mature enough to understand them.

    The faith of of a Christian has NOTHING to do with the actions of a few renegade priests and/or nuns - their behaviour is anathema to me and to all true Christians. In so far as the existence of s Supreme Being is concerned I would just say that you are perfectly free NOT to believe if that is the road you take. Just allow us the same courtesy.
    Idiot!

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    @11
    You speak with forked tongue, what about the human rights of the people of the FALKLANDS?

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redrow

    @13 Gordo

    You are correct that an idea is not invalidated just because a few percent of its professional proponents are kiddie-fiddlers or its previous head proponent was in the Hitler Youth or its current head proponent wishes to deny the FI their rights. However, it is surely fair that the fundamental ideas of the religion should be open to question and challenge? If Mary conceived immaculately and the wafers Catholics eat literally turn to human flesh and the wine literally turns to blood then that would change everything. However I have taken the RC communion and I can promise you it was not flesh I ate or blood I drank. And if Jesus was male (XY) then he had a Y-chromosome that didn't come from Mary (XX) or the Holy Spirit (not physical) and so Mary must just have been a regular person. Lazarus was not raised from the dead after 3 days as the hypoxia and cell lysis in his tissues would have made that impossible within a few hours - probably sooner without significant cooling. Jonah didn't live in a fish etc etc. So I don't reject religion because of Inquisitions or Pogroms or Homophobia or Bigotry or Paedophilia - I reject them all because they are demonstrably false.

    You have of course every right to disagree with me and I fully support freedom of religion in the UK. However I also support the right to freedom FROM religion. Children should not be subjected to religious brainwashing and the idea that the RC church facilitated the forced separation of children from their parents is utterly despicable and yet another apalling act by a church that enjoyed unquestioned authority in the West until the last few years. One has to wonder, if no-one was ever raised in a religion but just got exposed to the various options as an adult, what proportion of people would actually sign up?

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @14

    I have already posted my concept about the islanders. I don't have any issue posting it again: I have never mentioned (as fascist peronist do) that they are squaters simply because they are not. Islanders are honest and honorable people making their living in the islands so they deserve fully respect.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Colla Cantri Club

    11 pgerman
    Again, where is my racism?

    The story treats the horific abduction of children by the church of Rome and you turn to stories of the deeds of the originary population. This accuses your own prejudice imediately.

    Don't talk of my lack of knowledge. Do you know the north? Do you know Quilmes? Have you seen the ruins? Do you know our culture?

    Only an apologist of the crimes against the originary people could cualify the very significant culture and population of the north as not “an important number, to the current argentine territory”.

    Your logic permits the Chinese come tomorrow to Argentina, conquer our land and say

    “These technologically inferior people do not exist in significant numbers. This is now the Peoples Republic of Argenchina.” If you claim rights or land to be returned from the Chinese colonists you are a racist (with your logic).

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #16 pgrman

    You respect the islanders enough to force them into Argentine subjection despite their clear near democratic wishes to remain a part of the UK...

    Getting back to the subject of shame. Have you none regarding the brutal and unforgivable invasion of the Falklands in 1982? Well...?

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    The UK is really a post-religious society.

    I think we should not attack people for their religious beliefs, nor because some people act criminally in the name of religion. It is a matter of faith; you have it or you do not. Leave people to take whatever comfort they gain from their faith. You don't have to agree with it but it is their right.

    I only object when it is misused by the few, used to gain power over people or if someone thinks their religion gives them some moral superiority. Morals and religion do not always walk hand in hand.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @17

    Remember that you wrote that italian inmigrants “stole silver, they stole children, they stole our people of Quilmes and many many more”. I made you know that the Quilmes people fate was the responsability of the Spanish Empire , many, many...almost hundreds of years before the declaration of the independence. How can you write that argentine people ,or italian people, were related with the fate of Quilmes people?

    You wrote that “True people of this land look to Inti not Rome”. Who say that? Our Nactional Constitution giuves total religion freedom to all those who lives in the argentine territory. I am a non beliver but I recognize that you can believe in whatever you like.

    The original population of the current argentine territory were almost insignificant in number basically because they were migrant tribes with low density.

    In the North some cultures were more developed but several stages below the Inca or the mapuches ones.

    Finally, the “right of conquest” was a right legally accepted during centuries when the UK, Spain, France,etc expandend their territories. Something considered illegal nowadays.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MK8 Torpedo

    A tribe who live on a South Pacific Island worship Prince Philip as a God!
    It's bonkers but this tribe prayed and God Philip turned up twice in the flesh.
    Odin destroyed the ice monsters.Have you ever seen one!
    The day when Christianity,Islam and all the rest are forgotten or regarded as myth can't come soon enough.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    As the great man Eddie Griffin said :- Christians say Jesus is the messenger, Muslims say Mohammed was the messenger, I say f**k the messenger!! Did you get the message?”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RcqKGCIRiU

    This would seem to suggest that A LOT of people in the Catholic church are STILL not getting the message.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Italians have participated in wide scale theft in Argentina since the 1920s. Did you know both Belgrano and Peron had some Italian blood?
    It's tiring to be lectured about history by an Argentine.... Especially an ignorant one. Argentina is nothing but one big Mafia.

    Difficult to believe? Currently you have two Italian-Argentines vying for the presidency of Argentina, where an enormous percentage of the population is dominantly influenced by the southern Italian-Argentine Viveza Criolla. (Massive migration of immigrants over the past century from the regions of Campania, Calabria and Sicily mixing with the Spaniards in Argentina.). Yes, there were many other nationalities from Europe and the Middle East as well, but just take a look in any Buenos Aires telephone book. You'd think you a were in Palermo!

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mafia minded Southern Italians ---→Marry corrupt Spaniards and dominate Argentine society--→ Argentines rank 107 on the world corruption index.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @23 Oh, you are stirring a storm. We have asserted the Italian Mafia influence in Argentina before and it was a sensitive subject. Many of the Argentines posting here refused to accept the Italian influence that is fact and bleedin' obvious to everyone else.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #24 Elaine

    With all due respect and sincerity.

    Was it not pgrman using his warped sense of history to blame the atrocities committed against the native peoples of Argentina against the colonial rulers?

    I certainly was not the first to mention the Italian influence of the issue either. I didn't bring into the thread the issue until @23.

    Argentina is a Mafia dominated nation. Two of my dear friends who live there will attest to the same.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @15 Redrow

    Using a literal interpretation of the bible to deny the existence of God is entirely reasonable, but it it misses the point IMHO. Faith has nothing to do with scientific observation and faith and religion are not the same thing at all - I wish more people were willing to understand that.

    @19 ElaineB

    “The UK is really a post-religious society”.

    In many ways an accurate observation, and probably even more so in my country, which is almost militantly secular. And yet, the tenets behind almost all of our laws and ideals - even if we consistently fail to live up to them - can be traced back to Jesus Christ, the heart of which, IMO, is simply, compassion.

    Aug 28th, 2015 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @19 ElaineB

    “t is a matter of faith; you have it or you do not. Leave people to take whatever comfort they gain from their faith. You don't have to agree with it but it is their right.”

    Thank you - you are quite right! It works both ways, of course - if people choose NOT to follow a religious faith then that is entirely their choice and must be respected.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @25 Oh, I completely agree with you. I mentioned the Italian influence once and was subjected to a storm of denial from the 'Argentine' trolls. They can't see it but I can only conclude a) they don't live there or b) they have never been to Italy.

    @26 Which leads back to my point that morals do not always walk hand in hand with religion. Compassion, well, I am not sure everyone is possessed of it. Maybe it has to be inculcated by society.

    @27 Quite.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lucdeluc

    Southern Italy has a higher standard of living than Chile.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    @26
    “ can be traced back to Jesus Christ ” how do you know that, has he been seen. He, I would hasten to add is a ficticious person. I think the adage “ do unto others and you would expect others to do unto you ” is what we all aspire to. Now dont say that Jesus Christ said that. That is a kop out.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @30 There is proof that Jesus existed beyond doubt; that he was the son of God is disputed by non-Christians.

    So you don't believe it. Fine. Why embarrass yourself by revealing your ignorance.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #,29 Lucdeluc

    Of course it does, it's a part of Italy with generous social benefits and EU subsidies. Plus the whole of Northern Italy does all the work. (And no, I'm not being racist. Just ask ANY Italian.)

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @28

    Yes indeed, morals, like compassion is/are learned attitudes and behaviours and there is no guarantee that they can be learned through religious teaching. There is a clear distinction between the old and new testament though and that influence is with us today - without the services that various churches provides in my city, for instance, government social service agencies would be overwhelmed.

    @30

    Sorry mate, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 31 ElaineB

    As an atheist (from a CoE) your little gem:
    ”So you don't believe it. Fine. Why embarrass yourself by revealing your ignorance (SIC) .“
    most certainly would catch me in your pathetic opinion of golfchronie.

    It clearly cannot be based on a judgement of the evidence for there are many scientific articles based on physical evidence disprove Jesus existed as a Christian.

    You do realise that he was a Jew, he supported Judaism all of his short life, he died as a Jew and there is NO physical evidence whatsoever that he intended to start the cult of ”Christianity”, don't you?

    Indeed, it was decades after his death that all the cult started to coalesce into the present figment of many imaginations.

    I suspect that Yuleno, surprisingly, had it correct when he advised you to read other opinions less and think more about the facts.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @34 Look at you desperate to jump in.

    Of course I know Jesus was a Jew, who doesn't?

    “there are many scientific articles based on physical evidence disprove Jesus existed as a Christian.” How very vague and unconvincing of anything.

    I don't subscribe to any religion but despise twits like you that think you are somehow superior because you mock people with faith.

    Still sore that they took your guns away?

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    35 ElaineB

    “I don't subscribe to any religion but despise twits like you that think you are somehow superior because you mock people with faith. ”

    You've got it all wrong Elaine. I don't subscribe to any religion either, but what I resent is the self righteous a**holes who come a-knocking on my door on a Saturday morning and look down their noses at me because I am a “non-believer” .

    I simply can not abide these idiots who are so brainwashed, so narrow minded that they can't even believe that someone might have a different view point.

    Again, as Eddie Griffin said:- “Put that book down because it will f**k you up. As soon as you go to church someone will try to slip a d**k in you and want some money”.

    Hail Mary, Jesus will take care of you and the church will take care of your cheque book!!! Put your hand on your television, You have been saved!!! blah, blah, blah..........

    If it's true, I don't want to believe in THAT god thankyouohsoverymuch.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @36 My post was directed at ChrisR in response to his post but since you commented I will ask you this:

    Why do you feel inferior when someone has an opposing view? What makes you think they are looking down their noses at you? Why answer the door?

    My advice is to politely decline to engage in conversation about religion with them and forget it. Don't allow it to affect you so much.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ezekielman

    The Catholic church is damned for its theft of babies and its protection of paedophile bishops and archbishops but the Pope is more interested in holding a poster supporting Argentina in its farcical claim to the Falklands. You have to judge that he is senile, a danger to his church and the Argentine people.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 35 ElaineB

    Is that the BEST you can come back with? Completely ignoring the implications arising from the fact that the JC Cult didn't start in his lifetime but many decades after his death?

    “How very vague and unconvincing of anything.” What do you expect, it is pointless putting links in anything addressed to you because, as you are continually claiming 'I never open links, etc..' Except of course the one I put to my post regarding the technical features of closed breech pistols and contamination with GSR re Nisman. You actually thanked me for that!

    “I don't subscribe to any religion but despise twits like you that think you are somehow superior because you mock people with faith.”

    Yet another insult and I think you are lying about not subscribing to any religion: surely there is one to 'The Great ElaineB' because that is how you appear to some of us on here.

    “Still sore that they took your guns away?” Now of course you are just displaying yet another ignorance that you hold dear, despite the facts that the government did not ban guns, they banned short barrelled pistols and revolvers.

    I got GBP17,000 in compensation for them which I and some other gun enthusiasts spent some of it suing the Government and had long barrelled pistols confirmed as meeting the Firearms Act (as amended) by the High Court Judge. After checking the law and consulting with the UK Pattern Office (where every model of gun in the world has at least one example kept there for technical evaluation by current designers) he found 'as a matter of fact' that the pistols we submitted DID meet the law. All Police Forces throughout the entire country including the failed Northern Constabulary (re Dunblane) were mandated to issue FAC's for those who asked and complied with the general requirement of the safety of the public aspects of the FA Acts. Rifles of which I had 17 of were unaffected.

    You really do need to think more before you claim things you know nothing about.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Wait a second, Jesus was a Jew? What on earth are you all talking about?

    Isn't that the basis for Christians persecuting Jews relentlessly? That the Jews crucified The Lord Jesus Christ?

    By the way, a question for all you that's always been in the back of my head since a boy watching Easter broadcast movies of Christ's crucifixion. Why did Hollywood use actors dressed as Roman soldiers pounding nails into the limbs of Jesus? Weren't the Romans pagans at the time? How come it wasn't two angry guys named Abraham and Moises?

    Religion of any kind can be perplexing and questionable, but I have also found myself while in crisis in quiet prayer asking God to help me accept the things I have no control of. Everyone is welcome to their own metaphysical beliefs, or none, but no one has the right to inflict their religious fanaticism on us either.

    Aug 29th, 2015 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    Wait a second. The above article does not speak about the Mapuches or the Quilmes, Italians, Jews or else (which may be important too).
    Instead, it reveals testimony about the active involvement of the Argentine Catholic Church in the crimes of the 1976-1983 civic-military dictatorship, including its collaboration on the stealing of babies. Those crimes, that included rape and sexual slavery of female prisoners were perpetrated in a country that had legally abolished torture and the death penalty for civil citizens as early as 1813, and for military personnel in 2008.
    Argentine Church priests were instrumental in reassuring army members that they were performing a pious duty when kidnapping, torturing and killing people they suspected as being “subversives,” “Communists,” “Marxists,” members of the “Atheist guerrilla,” and so on.
    Argentine Church priests used to talk the kidnapped into giving information leading to more kidnappings, as well as to give false information to desperate families as to their sons whereabouts or fate.
    The Church kept silent about the killing of several of its own, such as Bishop Angelelli in La Rioja.
    While the current trial has not yet concluded, similar facts have already been proven in court.
    This perversity of most of the Argentine Church hierarchy in the widespread violation of human rights in Argentina and its identification with an ideology that rationalized the killing of an entire generation is what the story is about.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @39 You just do not understand the concept of faith. It doesn't matter what ChrisR believes. You can spend all day every day ranting about religion but you cannot stop people believing what they want to believe.

    You wasted a load of money trying to prove a point when they took your guns off you? I can believe that. You cannot stand to be wrong. No doubt you left the UK on some point of principle, had to sell your property at the wrong time, and are stuck in a country that turned out to be worse. Is that why you are so angry and frustrated?

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 08:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lucdeluc

    @42. You may have hit the nail on the head.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @42 ElaineB

    ChrisR only reads what HE posts - I am sure he doesn't have a clue what I and others are saying to him about the concept of “faith”.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @44 He doesn't like me because a dared to disagree with him and pull him up on his derogatory language about women.

    I don't know what his beef is or why he needs a fight. He doesn't believe in a God so he thinks it is his mission in life to insult anyone with an opposing view. Why? Someone that rigid in their views and unable to respect and tolerate another point of view should not be allowed to hold guns, in my opinion, and I am glad the majority will of the UK people deprived him of them.

    I don't follow a religion but understand it plays an important role in the lives of many. Unless it is used for nefarious purposes - in which case we have the law to deal with it - why should it be a reason to attack and mock people?

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 43 Lucdeluc
    At last you have 'scored' a point 'against' ChrisR, apart from you haven't, nor got a clue what you are talking about.

    @ 44 Gordo The Delusional One

    I read every post just to keep up to speed. It seems you have missed the point of me being a CofE 'follower' due to my parents wishes, until I found science and woke up to the best fairy tale book in existence: the bible. The RCC is nothing but a contrived cult aimed at subjugating soft headed people who need to have a comfort blanket because they cannot deal with their own death.

    @ 45 The Great ElaineB
    You really do think that I derogate against women don't you? You clearly still believe your lie that I call all women 'bitches' and you are wrong. There is a regular poster on here who does, bit it's not me.

    I don't like you because of your attitude and fallacious statements based on no evidence, but that doesn't make you special because I don't like the others (mainly argies) who do the same.

    Why do you have to involve your sex to make a point: that seems to be the gun you draw at every opportunity to shoot the 'bad men' who realise your shortcomings?

    Your attitude to guns shows how easily you are swayed by the mass public who do not understand the risks they are putting themselves in. Try reading the HO stats on the massive increase in the use of guns in the UK since pistols were banned. I won't waste my time putting the link up as you 'never' click on them: yeah, that one flies.

    As for losing money, it was swings and roundabouts and in any event, unless something really drastic happens we have far more money than we need until we both croak. And what did you expect me to do when I reached 65? Carry on even though I didn't have to?

    Just remember what my wife concluded about your situation. I hope that things go well for you when retire and you are not 'stuck' in the effects that your present body chemistry is driving you to.

    And as for the law dealing with Wahabi Jihadists, no chance.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @46 “The Great ElaineB” Thanks, I knew you were a fan.

    You are rather old to be rebelling against your parent's aren't you? At least we understand the reason behind your ranting about religion.

    The risk of guns in the UK is allowing bigoted old fogeys like you possess them. On another current thread you talk about 'a bullet to the head' being the solution. You are an intolerant old fool and I am glad you don't live in the UK anymore.

    Cue more misogynist comments.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 47 ElaineB

    I do hope that your naivety about dealing with threats without firearms doesn't get you and your family murdered by religious fanatics.

    As for 'the bullet in the head' nonsense I take it you do not care about the citizens of Venezuela who are dying from the shortage of medicines and the lack of food OR you have 'a brilliant plan' to solve the problem but somehow, given your track record of ducking difficult questions and decisions, I doubt it.

    As for being a misogynist I can only point to all the women who have asked me for jobs (even though they were employed at the time) because they knew women who already worked for me and how happy they were. So yet another fail.

    As I said before you are not too far from retirement and I cannot wait to call you names, only I wouldn't, being a gentleman. Trouble is you are not too good at name calling that either.

    Cue further 'feminism' comments.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @48 They took your guns away because that was the will of the majority. You didn't like that your opinion did not override everyone else's so you left the country. Good.

    Nice try but ridiculous. I have written a lot in support of the Venezuelan people and their plight, and completely condemned the government. But I have an issue with your method as a solution. Old gun-toting ChrisR's solution to everything, 'a bullet to the head'.

    You cannot even recognise the misogyny in your posts. It is sad but, hey, you don't live in the UK and the poor people of Uruguay can put up with you now. Your comments are akin to homophobes declaring that they 'have a gay friend'.

    I am pleased to say your assertions about me are way off the mark. Just as wacky as your obsession with guns.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @46 ChrisR

    I assume from the “ChrisR” nom de plume that your name may be Christopher. This name has a very close connection with Christ viz ”From the Late Greek name Χριστοφορος (Christophoros) meaning “bearing CHRIST”, derived from Χριστος (Christos) combined with φερω (phero) “to bear, to carry”. Early Christians used it as a metaphorical name, expressing that they carried Christ in their hearts. In the Middle Ages, literal interpretations of the name's etymology led to legends about a Saint Christopher who carried the young Jesus across a river. He has come to be regarded as the patron saint of travellers.”

    Did you renounce your Anglican faith because the burden was too heavy?

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    23. “ . . . . It's tiring to be lectured about history by an Argentine. . . . . . ”

    May I quote you?

    ---------------------------

    Poor Rudy Maxa attributes the southern italian influence as a major contributing factor to the shape of rotting roadkillian culture.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 49 ElaineB
    Get real for once and stop acting like a little girl about Venezuela and guns.

    No 'cunning plan' from you to end the problem without armed conflict I see: no surprise there then.

    So how OLD are you? Given all the things you claim for yourself you have to be in your mid fifties and retirement is only a few years away. You are most definitely in the catchment area for you know what (it starts at 45).

    So now I am homophobic? That is a stretch even for you, are you completely mad? As long as they don't make homosexuality compulsory I couldn't care less.

    @ 50 gordo1

    Did you renounce the CofE because you wanted to listen to paedophiles telling you what to do and how many hail Mary's to say to 'clean your .soul'? This question is as stupid as:
    “Did you renounce your Anglican faith because the burden was too heavy?”

    You accuse me of not reading and not understanding your posts yet you demonstrate exactly that about mine.

    No, because what you claim is nonsense. I renounced my entire belief in all religions because they are simply not believable, none of them. Some of them such as the Wahabi sect of Jihadists funded by the lesser princes of Saudi Arabia are bat-shit mad and likely to cause massive deaths to all of us infidels which include all the other religions and all the rest, so you and the delicate flower of womanhood are not exempt.

    And as for your comment about the Dope of a Pope demands respect due to his position at the head of a worldwide religion have you never understood that respect has to be earned? If only he could but being an argie is insurmountable in that respect from anybody who looks at the facts.

    None of these religions can stand up to scientific scrutiny and as for the bible it is up there with Grimm's Fairy Tales. Now if that upsets your sensibilities that is YOUR problem. I didn't make you follow fairy tales, I did just the opposite and grasped the reality of death head on. This is all we get, enjoy it.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @52 ChrisR

    You appear to be a very zealous person in your pursuit to tell the world(that includes us) that you are an extreme atheist perhaps more extreme even than Richard Dawkins. Indeed, your atheism seems to me to be your substitute for religion.

    Oh well, we all have to believe in something, don't we?

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @52 You are so frustrated you can't even comprehend the word 'akin'. I did not call you homophobic. Ask someone close to you to read my post and explain it to you.

    You are so obsessed with me you are trying to work out my age? You call me a little girl and then an old woman - you have no clue. Your assertion that I must be middle-aged because of all my accomplishments so far is the language of a man who has not achieved much in his entire life. :) Why do you let me live rent free in your head?

    By the way 'feminism' is not the opposite of 'misogynist'. One is bad and full of hatred for women. The other simple seeks equal opportunity for women. Try to work it out.

    Cuba should alert the 50,000 troops they have in Venezuela because ChrisR(ambo) is coming to sort the whole problem out with one bullet to the head of Maduro. (Can someone tell ChrisR why his simplistic plan would solve nothing).

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @54 ElaineB

    Does ChrisR live in Venezuela?

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @55 No, Uruguay. He is British but moved there in a huff after the gun laws changed in Britain. He has posted at length in the past about his battle over the guns.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @56 ElaineB

    Must be the weather. I've never been there but Montevideo was once described to me as being just like Manchester on a wet Saturday afternoon!

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Well, well, I have my own tiny band of uninformed idiots!

    gordo The Delusional one.

    You clearly have never been to Manchester even on a dry day: it's abysmal, so where do you live if you DARE to tell me, Canada is it, most of the loonies seem to go there?

    Whoever told you about MVD has never been there either. TWO delusional idiots talking together, oh well to be expected.

    The equally delusional (and lying) ElaineB

    Oh dear, wrong again. I came to live in Uruguay in 2011. Pistols were banned in 1997, just explain to the other posters how I moved in a huff? (it was 14 YEARS later)

    It seems you are so confused due to your body chemistry imbalance that you do not remember from one week to the fourth what you have written. I am correct am I not: ask your partner and see what he / she says?

    Bet you don't dare to!

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @58 Hahaha. Read back your post. I DARE you.

    Silly old twit.

    Aug 30th, 2015 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    ElaineB @ 56 - Actually I understand that Chris and his good lady moved to Uruguay on account of her health. Not typical of a “woman hater”. By the way, private undocumented possession of firearms is forbidden in Uruguay. Obtaining a gun possession permit includes a psychological test.

    Gordo 1 @ 57 - Montevideo like Manchester on a wet Saturday afternoon? Somebody was taking the Mickey out of you. Come and have a look.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @60 ynsere
    Actually it was a Uruguayan former colleague who told me - he died recently in Montevideo so I can't contradict him! I will erase his description.

    @58ChrisR
    I am proud to live in the UK since retiring having lived pretty well all my life in Latin America and Iberia. As I find the possession of firearms to be anathema I am quite happy to stay here!

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 05:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @60 ChrisR is MORE than capable of stating his own case. He is very quick to dish it out but it seems he does not take it so well when someone dares to stand up to him. Especially a woman.

    @61 I have to add that I found the weather pretty good in Uruguay but I wouldn't retire there for the weather or the health care. Most people long to go home at the end of their life (not to be confused with retirement age) and it can be very lonely for the surviving partner. JMO

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 61 gordo1
    Your former UYU colleague obviously knew he had an soft headed dummy he could fool at will then. Did you not bother to look at the weather maps for MVD no, I didn't think so, so he was correct!
    “pretty well all my life in Latin America and Iberia”
    That explains a lot, apart from the fact you did not understand that gordo meant fat / fatty in Spanish.

    @ 60 ynsere
    Spot on about us!

    The firing range behind the National Stadium is pretty good and the club members very welcoming and I was assured there would be no problem with membership but I decided not to take the offer up, it's just too far from where I live to arrive having driven through MVD and still be able to shoot successfully in high level competitions!

    @ 62 ElaineB

    We both decided to retire in UYU, I know that your twisted view of me probably thinks I bound and gagged my wife to bring her here but that was not the case.

    She used to have at least two minor asthma attacks a week and a serious attack at least once a year necessitating the use of a medical grade nebulizer and even then she had to go to hospital one time. Since being here away from the stress of the UK she has had ONE minor attack and she was suffering from flu at the time. We are in our fifth year.

    If she outlives me she will decide for herself whether she stays or goes somewhere else: she has a brain in her head you know, though I respect that you put it as 'JMO'.

    I have no idea how much actual experience you have of health care in UYU or where you will eventually end up living the rest of your life but people with money have better healthcare that presently experienced in the UK NHS.

    Yes, you have to be in a 'mutualista' and yes you have to pay for your medication and you even have to pay GBP2.25 each time you see your doctor, who in our case speaks English. The total cost for us per annum is less than a third than I paid in the UK and we have the best hospitals in the country in which to have treatment.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @63 Nope, I didn't think that at all. I was just making a general observation to ynsere.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @63 ChrisR

    “That explains a lot, apart from the fact you did not understand that gordo meant fat / fatty in Spanish.” Are you blind? I have had many a conversation with paulcedron to explain to him that I use “gordo” as my name is Gordon. I am, in fact, multilingual Spanish/ English and Italian.

    Unlike you I can ask for a beer in Spanish - I don't have to use sign language! Do you know what “boludo de mierda” means? Well, once you get that translated then you will be aware of how you are respected on mercopress.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @65 Careful. Old ChrisR is fluent in childish name calling and insults but gets incredibly defensive if you strike back.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Yes, literally Gordo means “fat” in the River Plate Region. However, it isn't usually an insult; in fact it can be an endearment as well as a perfectly respectful nickname. In Uruguay “boludo” is a childish expression, and not necessarily an insult.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @67 ynsere

    I have never been south of Perú.

    Perhaps “huevón” or “pelotudo” will do?

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 65 gordo1

    So you drink beer do you? You probably have to so you can live with yourself.

    I do not drink alcohol apart from perhaps a nice bottle of Champagne on my birthday. I stopped drinking alcohol in my 30th year. Perhaps that is why I have a sharper intellect than you, even though you are probably as old as me.

    ”Well, once you get that translated then you will be aware of how you are respected on mercopress (SIC)”

    Mmm! And who besides you, your lady backup and the argies of course thinks that?

    Good job ynsere educated you, isn't it.

    BTW A link about atheism as a religion. You will be OK, your backup never clicks on links (or so she says).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A41WZBcmnfc

    You will need to concentrate however, so no beer for you, CULO (that suits you).

    @ 66 ElaineB
    “Careful. Old ChrisR is fluent in childish name calling and insults but gets incredibly defensive if you strike back.”

    @ 35 ElaineB wrote@
    “I don't subscribe to any religion but despise twits like you that think you are somehow superior because you mock people with faith.”

    There are just two comment I want to make here:
    Isn't calling someone a twit unladylike? You think?
    You are in error when you post “despise twits like you that think you are somehow superior because you mock people with faith” for the simple reason I KNOW I am superior to adults who believes in fairies!

    If there were no religion up to now, anybody who started one would be rightly committed under the Mental Health Act.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @69 You really are not superior to anyone though you spend an awful lot of time telling us you are. Who are you trying to convince?

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @69 ChrisR

    No - I don't drink beer but I can order it when I invite friends or family for a drink in the bar in Marbella, for example.

    Sharper intellect than me? I doubt it unless you are a member of Mensa at a very high level.

    Why do you keep on about religion? I thought we had put to bed that I have no problem with atheists as long as they don't try to convert me! As far as your superiority is concerned when are you going to show a modicum of maturity which will permit us to take a view on that?

    Huevón!

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 71 gordo1
    “Sharper intellect than me? I doubt it unless you are a member of Mensa at a very high level.”

    Funny you should mention that....

    Huevón! Oh bless! (did that remind you of your bloke in a dress?) You use 6 letters of jibber-jabber to describe what I called you in FOUR. And you think you have a better intellect than !? Ha, ha.

    Re your last actually paragraph. I am of course coming down to the level demonstrated by you. When you stop DEMANDING respect for the odious RCC and berating those who do not believe (whether atheist or not) than I will also stop. I cannot have you misunderstanding what I am saying, can I?

    @ 70 ElaineB

    If you want to consider yourself on the same level as the believers in fairies and argies that is up to you.

    Answer to the final sentence: nobody. Do you really think I care what other people think, especially argies and fairy cakes?

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @72 We get it you don't believe in any God and you are incapable of tolerating anyone with an opposing view to you. Not very intelligent is it? You think everyone should think the way you do. Well fortunately the world is full of disparate people many of whom are a lot smarter, unprejudiced, kinder and more mature in their thinking because a world full of people like you would be unconscionable.

    'believers in Fairies and Argies'? You do know Argentines exist don't you? You see you undermine your own credibility when you put them in the same category as 'Fairies'. What do you have against the people of Argentina that you hate them so much?

    Oh, you care too much what people think of you, especially me. If you didn't care you would have given up long ago. Why do you let me live rent free in your head?

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Would one of you native English speakers kindly explain the difference or similarities between a twit and a twat? In the politest terms possible.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    EB is a twat. Voice is a twit!

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @74 From the Urban Dictionary:

    TWIT:
    The kind of person that makes a retarded chimp look smart. They often can be found leaving definitions for their own name or the names of their friends on urbandictionary.com
    Joe smith definition:
    1: joe smith is the coolest man alive, look at me i wrote my name i am joe smith
    2: joe smith is a twit

    TWAT
    1) A great word to shout out.
    2) A woman's vagina.
    3) A blow to the face or genitalia.
    4) Used by Tweety.
    5) An offensive term for a person.
    6) Acronym for The War Against Terrorism.
    1) “You're getting right on my tits you TWAAAAAAAAT!”
    2) “Nice twat there woman.”
    3) “You twatted me, I'll twat you back.”
    4) “Where's dat liddle puddy twat?”
    5) “Tony Blair's a twat.”
    6) “TWAT is going well, don't you think?”

    Probably best not to look up TWITTWAT

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @72 ChrisR

    Please prove with exact quotes and dates I have demanded here or in any other forum ” respect for the odious RCC and berating those who do not believe (whether atheist or not)”.

    Huevón

    You clearly cannot read too well!

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 73 ElaineB

    Oh dear, yet another attempt at disingenuous alteration of my posts.

    Just what is it with you that you accuse me and many others of 'hate' or (@62) “someone dares to stand up to him. Especially a woman.” or ”'feminism' (alledgedly confused by me, according to you with the direct opposite) or “frustrated” or “despise you” etc, etc?

    “What do you have against the people of Argentina that you hate them so much?”

    I would have thought that you, above all people, could differentiate my use of argies (who I 'despise' to use one of your popular terms) and the Argentines of which I have many friends in Uruguay. Here you are again using 'hate'. I try never to use that word because where I lived it was seen as the other side of the coin named 'love' and I most certainly do not love you and sympathise completely with your poor partner. That person deserves a medal for standing your attitude drawn from being a self-made woman who worships her creator, if ever there was one.

    You clearly have not spent much time (if any) in Uruguay or you would understand immediately what the problems are:
    1) The argies discount all UYU invoices for our exports to them and delay payment for months. This strains the country's economy (see 2 as well);
    2) They add spurious charges to all imports from TDC to UYU (ditto)
    3) They drive like absolute maniacs on our roads even if they are resident here, causing many smashes, including fatal ones without giving a damn;
    4) They do not relicense their vehicles so we have to pay extra 'road tax' ourselves;
    5) They have yet to pay for ONE WATT of electric power we have sent under the Plate to help them out when they were flooded two years ago now is it? This also reduces the amount of water available to hydro-generate power for us so it's a two edged sword.

    And of course TMBOA treats the Argentines (including my next door neighbours who are a lovely family) as personal serfs.

    And you are supposed to KNOW about these things? Risible.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @78 So do you believe in 'Argies' or are they imaginary like fairies? Do you consider yourself on the level of people that believe in 'Argies'? And fairies? You seem to contradict yourself.

    How could one possibly fathom the depths and distinctions of your prejudices, they are irrational and manifold.

    Aug 31st, 2015 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Gardo1 @ 77

    I'm afraid your “huevón” misfired in terms of Uruguayan Spanish. Frankly I don't remember ever having heard it used here. Any reference to a person's “huevos” (eggs) here is usually a tribute to that person's courage. For example “Qué huevos que tiene” (What eggs he's got) means, “He's really brave”. It's a macho thing, I suppose.

    Conversely, “Qué pelotas que tiene” (What balls he's got) would probably mean “He's really lazy”, “He's really slow”. or possibly “He's really patient”.

    I believe “huevón” is used as an insult in Spain, as in Peru. However, I've never been insulted to my face by a Spaniard other than my better half, who always chose alternative vocab.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    VINCIT OMNIA VERITAS...
    Welcome back, granddaughter 117...

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 04:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    Of all the crimes committed by the military thugs during that junta the kidnap of these babies was the among the worst. Anybody who is culpable should be totally ashamed!

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @80 ynsere

    Thank you.

    I have discovered the following link http://www.myinsults.com/all-insults/spanish-uruguayan-insults. Each of these epithets are far too vulgar for my “delicate” taste so I'll just have to desist from insulting ChrisR in Spanish.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Gordo @ 3

    Thanks for the link. I'll definitely have a dekko.

    Should you be interested, there's an erudite/hilarious book in English and Spanish by an Irish resident of Montevideo called Richard Manning: “Las Malas Palabras en Inglés”.

    With regard to Chris, how about turning the other cheek and being nice to him?
    I don't think an atheist's rejection will harm any divinity that may exist, and as a Roman Catholic you're probably used to negative remarks about errant priests and what have you. Not that I think they're all rotters, by any means.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @84 ynsere

    Being nice to ChrisR is tantamount to accepting his arrogance!

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 79 ElaineB

    You were, until about 12 months or so ago always good to read. That is no longer the case with your 'hate', 'despise' and the pathetic claim that somehow I dislike women.

    I treated you no different to any other poster, that is what you always wanted, wasn't it, to be one of the club? But now it has changed.

    You are probably 5 years into your menopause whether you admit it to yourself or not. This means you probably have another 10 years of hot sweats and the associated problems yet to come. Please give your partner my best wishes for the future, he / she will need it.

    @ 83 gordo1
    “so I'll just have to desist from insulting ChrisR in Spanish.”

    That's the first sensible thing you have posted in a long time given that your attempt in jibber-jabber blew up in your face and you are best advised not to insult me in English either.

    I have only been so gentle with you up to now because of your foolish defence of the despicable indefensible RCC has been encouraged by EB and you were daft enough to fall for it.

    Given your intent expressed above I no longer extend any allowance to you.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Its sickening the way that creep Think fawns over the ladies on this forum. Reminds me exactly of the loathful peodo Saville. Ugh! Makes your skin crawl.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @87 He told us he likes to sniff women's crotches and described playing with his own shit. I am surprised he came back after that revelation.

    @86 The rambling of a senile old man.

    So, do you believe in 'Argies' and fairies or not? You seem confused.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @86 ChrisR

    I can only concur with @88 ElaineB - the rambling of a senile old man!

    “I have only been so gentle with you up to now because of your foolish defence of the despicable indefensible RCC has been encouraged by EB and you were daft enough to fall for it.” BRING IT ON, BIG BOY

    “your foolish defence of the despicable indefensible RCC” Wrong again! I have made it quite clear that I abhor those errant elements of the Roman Catholic Church just as much as non-Catholics and/or atheists abhor them. Their actions are indefensible! What more do you want, you silly little man?

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @90 He is definitely fighting some personal demons that have little to do with us. I have never defended the RC church or the actions of the criminal acts of some members. I have only defended the rights of people to have their faith without being attacked.

    For someone who condemns fairy tales he certainly knows how to weave them. His incoherent ramblings about me have no basis in fact.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @90 ElaineB

    The weather here is a bit variable so the exchange here is filling the gaps and I find it quite amusing to pop in from time to time and read his prattle.

    Could he qualify for sectioning?

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @91 No he doesn't need sectioning. He is harmless enough but he probably shouldn't be allowed to play with guns anymore.

    One of my Chilean friends was complaining to me yesterday about the weather. I said that it was pretty bad here too and he replied “But it is Summer in England!”. Quite.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 89 gordo1
    “BRING IT ON, BIG BOY”

    Well, you asked for it, remember that when you are sorry you ever did.

    “I have made it quite clear that I abhor those errant elements of the Roman Catholic Church”

    So you have, but what have you DONE about it, you personally? Nothing it seems to me. Yet you still go to the despicable RCC who have condoned the destruction of the lives of little boys and girls by these cretins sexually penetrating them?

    I take it you have read the evidence against the RCC? No? Why am I not surprised?

    These paedophiles pressurised these children NOT to tell anyone what was happening to them because Jesus would be upset with them! So what are you going to do now you indoctrinated idiot? Still go to church but say a few hundred hail-Mary's to absolve your guilt?

    I hope you have children and given the fact that you claim 50 years of servitude to this abhorrent organisation I have no doubt you sent them to Sunday School, I am correct am I not?

    How do you know that your children were not buggered in the case of your boy or raped in the case of your girl 'all in Jesus' name', you don't do you? Perhaps a few thousand hail Mary's will absolve that? What does your wife think about these rapists still at large instead of being jailed? Why do you both allow successive popes to get away with it. The present Dope of a Pope has done nothing other than continue the platitudes and promise reform. How do you think that is going to repair the lives of the THOUSANDS of victims? PLEASE TELL ME HOW?

    All you have done on here is to demand respect for the RCC when you should be demanding wholesale jailing of the entire chain of miscreants who did the offences or knowingly sheltered the offenders PLUS massive payments in damages to those who have had their lives destroyed.

    You and your sycophants to The Holy See of Rome sicken me: it is you and your like that need sectioning because of your failure to act must be a sign of mental and personal weakness.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @93 Wow. Issues much. I bet Gordo1 is really sorry; not.

    What have YOU done about it? Have you 'put a bullet in someone's head'? Or just ranted impotently on some random South American News forum?

    Interesting that you think Gordo1 is much more powerful than you.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @93

    I go to church as my Christian faith leads me there - it has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the miscreants who present themselves as priests and religious members of the Church but commit vile and unspeakable acts against children and other defenceless individuals. It's “chalk and cheese”! You seem to think there is a connection there - there isn't. There are millions of faithful Christians who, like me, absolutely condemn these offenders.

    The rest of your post is immature senseless and totally ignorant bile which I shall ignore because there is nothing to answer!

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @95 Just something to consider.

    1) Completely irrational reaction/behaviour.

    2) Rebelling against authority.

    3) Guns for protection.

    4) Issues with women.

    I think we should let ChrisR wrestle his own demons. His anger is not really directed at either of us.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @96 ElaineB

    It is clear that he suffers from irrational anger - weird that you and I are completely unknown to him personally yet his attitude is akin to a frustrated father talking to uncontrollable teenagers. Maybe it is unfair to provoke him????

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Gordo & Elaine

    It's wrong to provoke anyone, although I must confess I have on occasion subjected Argentine malvinistas to such treatment.

    But at least it's in a good cause.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @97 I think his demons go deeper than that and probably should not be aired here.

    I think it is rather the opposite, he sees us as authority figures that have let him down. He wants us to deal with his problems with the church or Argentina or whatever and when we won't - because it is entirely unrealistic - he overreacts and makes personal attacks.

    You are right that he does not know either of us but he has woven some fantasy middle-aged 'mother-figure' about me. He clearly despises this fantasy figure. Weird. And he seems to think you have power over the entire Catholic congregation all 1.2Billion of them. You represent some senior church figure to him.

    All that said, if he attacks me again I will deal with him in the same way but with some understanding of his irrational behaviour. Of course, I could be wrong and he is just a tool.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 95 gordo1

    As you are clearly unable to differentiate the RCC with normal life I will ask you this question:
    (scenario)
    A CEO of a large international charity KNOWS his male staff throughout all the countries they operate in are systematically sexually abusing the 'at risk people' they have the responsibility for their wellbeing.

    He does nothing but say vague things about it seems to be the case that up to 2%, but admits it could be 5%, of his male staff are raping and buggering these susceptible children and teens, but it's difficult to point the finger.

    Now, what would happen to this CEO in the real world:
    1) He would be convicted in court and sent to jail with all those employees who were guilty as charged? [clue: IT'S THIS ONE]
    2) NOTHING because he tries hard and is a good person, and it's only 5%? [clue: what has happened with the RCC]

    It will no doubt surprise you but this scenario IS the RCC and the CEO who said these words is non other than The Dope of a Pope with the big argie nose.

    You never answered if you had children, perhaps you are too frightened to think about the ramifications of your failure to check if the bloke in a dress has been “at” them.

    NOTE:
    As of 2012 (the last year of figures issued by the Vatican) there were 414,313 ordained priests. So even at the low figure suggested by The Dope there are likely to be 8,286 paedophiles in dresses and as many as 20, 715!

    And you, encouraged by you know who, attack me? Not only are you demonstrably a complete RCC idiot, you seemingly cannot accept the reality that even The Dope does.

    Just remember that doing nothing is akin to agreeing with it. If enough of you RCC clowns WANT a good church then join with all the other associations throughout the world to achieve it.

    Now THAT is something I would respect.

    BTW you need to drop the amateur psychiatrist and take advice from a real one.

    Otherwise there is no helping you.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @98 ChrisR started the attack back at the second comment on this thread when he provoked gordo1.

    @100 ”Just remember that doing nothing is akin to agreeing with it.' So what are YOU doing?

    You are frothing at the mouth now. Get some help as you are making a show of yourself.

    Sep 01st, 2015 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @100 ChrisR

    I do not intend to respond to your latest sad diatribe.

    May God bless you and keep you!

    Sep 02nd, 2015 - 06:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 102 gordo1

    Thank you for your blessing, I know you mean it.

    You do realise that I wished there were an eternity for all but I just cannot 'see it' so I live my life for the present.

    :o)

    Sep 02nd, 2015 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    I don't know the figures on a world scale, but I'm guessing more people believe in religion than not...
    I'm live and let live....
    ...unless, of course, they want to kill me over it...

    Sep 02nd, 2015 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    We can only live in hope.. :-)

    Sep 02nd, 2015 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    105

    Heh heh heh.... :-)

    Sep 03rd, 2015 - 03:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    You can only believe facts,

    run along with theories,
    and admire legends.
    So they say...

    Sep 03rd, 2015 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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