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Corbyn's Falklands 'negotiable' approach causes dissent among Labour
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn statement that the Falkland Islands are 'negotiable', a position he has maintained since he was first elected to Parliament, not only triggered immediate reaction from veterans and Falkland Islanders when he was chosen earlier this month: in effect, senior members from the party, even those within his shadow cabinet openly express their disapproval of his views, according to UK media reports. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI don't think that the Islanders should be over-concerned with Corbyn's stance.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 07:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a very minority opinion. He will never get it passed as Labour policy AND he isn't in government to try and see it through.
Argentina is not the flavour of the month with the UK press and I could imagine how they would whip up public opinion against any notion of dealing with a country who invaded UK territory and caused the deaths of so many young men. Possibly Corbyn has never bothered to find out the truth of the great Malvinas myth.
I was reading the current issue of Warships, in which there was an article about the current and proposed make up of the Argentine navy.
The Falklands their main focus for action short of shooting.
The author - an Argentinian- came out with the same old story about all the Argentians being forced at gunpoint back to Buenos Aires in 1833.
I was going to email the editorial staff with the proper account of this incident but they don't have a readers comment section.
I discovered this on the Warships site
Sep 29th, 2015 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Please note that the Editor is not based at the HPC Publishing offices. If you wish to send the Editor a letter, or other correspondance then please send it to the HPC Publishing Offices, Drury Lane, St Leonards-on-Sea, East Sussex, TN38 9BJ, UK.”
Self-determination - International Law:
Sep 29th, 2015 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.academia.edu/11325329/Falklands_-_Self-Determination_single_page_
There is NOTHING about the Falkland Islands that is negotiable with argieland. Corbyn reveals, yet again, that his brain (?) is stuck in the 70s. The United Kingdom is, and will always be, prepared to relinquish sovereignty of the Islands. To the Islanders. When they are ready. The people of Britain will be glad to see and support a treaty with the Falkland Islands to provide more than adequate military forces. Perhaps St Helena airport will no doubt provide additional logistic support. As will the soon to be available British aircraft carriers.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0well there you have it. A British politician who is willing to relinquish sovereignty of the
Sep 29th, 2015 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0islands and Gibraltar!!!! You see everything is possible!!
and I wonder why the Argentinian president did not mention the malvinas/Falklands in her UN speech...WHAT IS COOKING IN THE BACKGROUND BETWEEN GOVERNMENTS.....UMMMMMM
Nothing in the background as Corbyn is not in Government but opposition!
Sep 29th, 2015 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@5 aussiesunshinee
Sep 29th, 2015 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You’re confusing “negotiation” with “capitulation”.
Even Corbyn doesn’t go that far.
So don’t get your hopes up, and remember that in “negotiations” more than one outcome is possible.
We can begin just as soon as Argentina is ready to negotiate relinquishing forever any claim to the Falklands.
Or your next surrender, whichever comes first.
#5
Sep 29th, 2015 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.WHAT IS COOKING IN THE BACKGROUND BETWEEN GOVERNMENTS.....UMMMMMM..........NADA, RIEN, NICHTS NOTHING !
Keep on in your fantasy world.....it's all you've got
Good guy this Corbyn.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At some point someone has to question the golden cow/ call the emperor on his new clothes - and naturally this person will cause a wave of outraged reaction from the type who don't like questions.
Its after the toy throwing, and red angry faces that common sense can begin to take root and people can start to ask exactly who the current situation serves, and whats in the interests of the greater populations of GB and Argentina.
He's showing clear perspective and open mindedness, not robotic autoresponses, seems like a good guy.
The United Kingdom is a democcracy with over 60 million inhabitants. Corbin was elected leader of the Labour Party by 250,000 activists.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thos figures speak for themselves when it comes to his political influence.
@9. It has nothing to do with the populations of GB or Argentina, it is the Falkland islanders alone who have the right to determine their future.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I paid £3 to vote for both Tom (Watson) & Jerry (Corbyn). Unfortuantly, I wasn't as successful as getting Abbott selected as the Labour mayoral candidate but hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad so money absolutely well spent.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Corbyn will not be elected in 2020 and the reactions to him have nothing to do with people not liking questions. What a simplistic load of old tosh that is. No, vestige, it has everything to do with clued up folk, expressing disgust that one of our own is on a stupidity par with well, the likes of you.
Completely agree 100% with Conqueror @ No: 4. I continue to enlighten as many people who know little about the Falklands, in the UK, at every opportunity.
The current situation serves the Falkland Islanders. They're happy, I'm happy. Nobody but Argentina gives a tiny rats arse that the current situation doesn't serve Argentina.
Any Argentine unhappy with the status quo need to put up or shut up. Your nonsense was entertaining to begin with but got boring a long time ago along with the lies and hypocrisy. Lobby your politicians to head over to the ICJ.
Anything else you do or say is such a waste of all our time.
10 - Rosa Parks was 1 woman in a county of 300 million. Got to start somewhere.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 011 - And its the people of GB who determine how they themselves relate to the islands.
@9 Vestige
Sep 29th, 2015 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is the interests of the inhabitants of the Islands that are paramount, according to the UN and international law.
Whatever you think of him personally, the fact is he is almost entirely on his own in this matter, even amongst the left winger of his own party.
Incidentally the most dogmatic, ideologically driven, not in the real world, strand of British politics.
Not surprising you like it though.
Vestige @13.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And its the people of GB who determine how they themselves relate to the islands.”
As a citizen of the UK, I agree. It's a pleasure to witness you get something right at last. Well done!
100,000 of the people who voted for Corbyn joined for the sole purpose of causing an upset. It was an angry vote against the Labour Party and only they will be damaged by it. Corbyn had to be talked into standing for election and you can be sure that no one was more surprised to be in that position than him. He has a dilemma of conscience now because even he knows that his idealistic waffle has no place in the reality of governing a country.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Corbyn has no power to change anything and is highly unlikely to ever get into a position of mooting the idea and he will never convince Parliament. (Note that we don't have dictators but a democracy)
Nothing has changed and nothing will change.
14 - While I seriously doubt your legal references being correctly applicable in this context, I'll say that even if thats a given GB is not under such legal obligation.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Corbyn is alone on this matter, then so what, Im sure Gandhi wasn't Mr popular at some point. That said I'd guess there a lot more quietly like Corbyn, and/or a lot more with the latent potential to follow Mr Corbyn.
I don't agree with your idea that the inhabitants voices are paramount, although I do see them as having some rights certainly. I don't see them as a separate 'people' but rather a GB colony.
The international/south American relations of 60 million people in GB are affected by how GB sets its priorities in the south Atlantic.
I don't think the interests of 2500 people should come first in such a context*, and I'm sure there are many people in GB who think likewise - including the leader of the opposition of the UK parliament.
Care to call me any more names for daring to share the views of GB's next potential prime minister.
* especially when they're 90% concentrated in about 2 square kilometers on land the size of Wales.
Why do some listen and take seriously a man who is not in power,
Sep 29th, 2015 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0elections next year, a referendum in 2017,
not untill 2020 will this man even come close to carrying out his threats,
just wait and see,
and drink more tea,
.
“I don't think the interests of 2500 people should come first in such a context*, and I'm sure there are many people in GB who think likewise - including the leader of the opposition of the UK parliament. ”
Sep 29th, 2015 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahaha Vestige, that little statement shows how little you know and understand about the British people. If just one Brit lived on the Falklands we would protect that person in just the same way as we protect the 3000. As for South America no one cares about it except Chile, the rest of the countries are basket cases not worth a fig.
Spot on ElaineB although, I really do suspect it was way above 100,000.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Labour party claimed to have had “stringent checks in place” to weed out people such as myself who didn't agree with their “values”. In reality, they only really managed to weed out high profile names who publicly stated what they were doing such as Conservative MP's. They also succeeded in weeding out their own members.
Me on the other hand, I sent my local MP an email just before the general election demanding they remove me from their mailing list as I hadn't asked to receive their crap through the post. I made it clear that I would rather chop off my penis and choke on it whilst trying to eat it before ever voting Labour.
They still let me vote. Happy days.
whats in the interests of the greater populations of GB and Argentina.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually we don't give a flying F*** for the interests of Argentina and I am sure the sentiment is reciprocated by them
Vestige.
Remind us again the basis of your claim to the Falklands and for more light entertainment, S.Georgia and sub Antarctic islands
The analogy to Gandhi is ludicrous. The idea that the Falklands can be compared to giving India independence is a non-starter. India was a country that we took over as a colony and we gave it back to them....rightly.
The Falklands do not and never did belong to Argentina. Only your country's avarice and duplicity is your basis for a claim
If Gandhi was alive today,
Sep 29th, 2015 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he would be demonstrating through every city in argentina demanding they leave these peacefull people alone.
19 - riiiight.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 05 aussiesunshinee
Sep 29th, 2015 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“well there you have it. A British politician who is willing to relinquish sovereignty of the islands and Gibraltar!!!! You see everything is possible!!”
All right, all right!! Calm your t*t's love, It's only the new new leader of the labour party and so is not really a politician.
All this Jeremy Corbyn joker has done is make the labour party un-electable.
No one in their right mind would now vote for them. Falklands aside, his other policies make labour untouchable.
@20 Quite possibly. When the Labour Party changed their voting policy they could not have imagined this.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think we should encourage the Argentines to hang ALL their hopes on Corbyn. Convince the likes of Vestige that Corbyn will be handing them The Falklands if they just keep quiet about it. You know, don't mention it EVER again. Mwahahahaha.
@17 vestige
Sep 29th, 2015 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I don't see them as a separate 'people' but rather a GB colony.”
So you are still under the delusion that every single Falkland Islander is born in the UK and flown to the Falklands-then flown back to UK to die?
“The international/south American relations of 60 million people in GB are affected by how GB sets its priorities in the south Atlantic.”
So there is absolutely no UK trade with South America then?
Brazil won't be able to operate Saab Grippens in that case.
@17
“I don't agree with your idea that the inhabitants voices are paramount”
The Islanders are born and live in the Islands. Dissenting Argentines are not born in the Falklands with the exception of exactly.........1
Argentines not born on the Islands=no say.
If that is not the case then the UK can claim Ushuaia and the Falkland Islands can claim the Santa Cruz area, as Islanders settled there before Argentines.
@13
“11 - And its the people of GB who determine how they themselves relate to the islands.”
But if those UK citizens have not been born in the Islands or lived there, the Islanders wishes come first-re1968 and 1980 when the UK governments were trying to hive the Islands off to Argentina and could not, because of self determination.
*The UK's relationship with Latin America isn't being damaged or limited, it's just with Argentina.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*The Falkland Islanders are a people.
*Corbyn won't win the next election.
We have 5 years of twaddle but these facts won't change.
26 - No thats your own claim that you're attacking, not mine. I think thats the definition of a strawman. I know that not every person living on the islands is born in the UK, some are born in Chile too and imported for labor.
Sep 29th, 2015 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd say the majority are born in the UK though.
Re; second part: Of course there is trade between UK/SA. But why damage or reduce that trade, trade that potentially directly effects 10's of thousands of people every year in GB for the sake of 2500 people.
Decisions with national level implications shouldn't be left in the hands of the few with vested interests.
I don't know why anyone would want to do that - maybe the people of GB want to, fair enough, ... or maybe they don't, who knows, maybe they should get a say on it.
Corbyn is simply bringing the issue into the open so that the people in GB can.
If someone in GB want's to be able to say 'not in my name' then why be reluctant to let them.
“Argentines not born on the Islands=no say” - well thats fine, but don't whinge when the islands are isolated and receive no co-operation.
Whats telling though is the shock and horror in here from some at the thought of people in GB having a say.
Not like the islands were/are backed by and invested in by the people in GB is it ?
Not like lives and money from GB went/go into the islands is it ?
It would be wrong and ungrateful to take with one hand and then cover their mouth with the other. Certainly wouldn't be very loyal anyway.
“Decisions with national level implications shouldn't be left in the hands of the few with vested interests.”
Sep 29th, 2015 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No. Seems they should be handed over to Argentina.
Vestige argues against a small part of the UK population having the right to live as they wish and holding back the rest of the UK from some mythical nirvana of trade and relations with South Amercia.
However it seems that South America should instead dictate what the UK should do.
How is that in the interests of the UK?
#28: “I'd say the majority are born in the UK though.”
Sep 29th, 2015 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not according to the 2012 census, which shows that figure is about 27%. So, you're wrong.
“ There is trade between UK/SA. But why damage... that trade... for the sake of 2500 people.”
Because there is little or no UK trade with Argentina, and the rest of the continent doesn't give a shit about your sad little fantasy. Wasn't it only yesterday that Uruguay was pushing for trade with the Falklands? Shows what they really think of your fantasies.
““Argentines not born on the Islands=no say” - well thats fine, but don't whinge when the islands are isolated and receive no co-operation.”
Ain't happening - see Uruguay above. There is a country which is isolated and receives no co-operation though - and it is only 500km from the Falklands
More hot air from you. Time for you to give up and realise that the rest of the world just pays your 'president' lip-service, then laughs at you as soon as she's out of range.
Wow guys, these are the TRUE FACTS AND FICTIONS of Malvinas! It seems that Ruda is still among us!
Sep 30th, 2015 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://factsandfictionsofmalvinasislands.wordpress.com
30 - Very well, I was wrong, the majority are not born in GB.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0The correct figure is 28%/28.1%.
However, only ~43% residents are native born, so I think its fair to still consider it as being a colony.
Little or no trade with Argentina ? In 2014, Argentina (alone) was GB’s fourth largest export market in South America.
GB exports of goods there were worth approximately $485 million.
Who knows how much higher that 485 million could be if GB would engage bi-laterally and form good relations. But it can't because, like I said, national level decisions are being left in the hands of the few.
Argentina is a founder member of mercosur and so has profound influence on south american trade, and cultural, strategic and political links.
(Consider that Brazil imports $3.7 billion from GB, and has intricate relations with Argentina)
So is it really in the interests of the greater good for all G.B to leave significant power over its international relations in the hands of 3000 locals ?
Previous UK govt's didn't think so, the opposition leader doesn't think so, and once people start discussing it many others won't think so.
Better to reach an amicable negotiated solution. I know for some who think they have the moral high ground that doesn't sit well, but if you look at the facts you'll see the islands were just another imperial grab-and-plant venture and you really don't have the moral high ground, no more than in any ex-colony in any given continent.
(maybe thats why the UN has so often encouraged bi-lateral talks)
Kirchner and Corbyn share some curious similarities. Each has created a level of sheer preposterousness within their organisations that keep them from being taken seriously in civilised circles, and each has so weakened their respective backing group that no one need fear them. While Corbyn's fratricidal position is comparatively recent, the Kirchners have had several years to undermine Argentina's armed forces to the point that they are incapable of even a decent Sunday parade.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0What Vestige/voice fails to understand or acknowledge, is that in a civilized country, no government administration is going to violate the sovereignty rights and self-determination of their own people, speculating on possible chance a few others can line their pockets - this isn't Argentina
Sep 30th, 2015 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“People sometimes ask me why Argentinians make such an endless fuss about the islands they call Las Malvinas. The answer is simple. The Falklands belong to Argentina. They just happen to have been seized, occupied, populated and defended by Britain. Because Argentina's claim is perfectly valid, its dispute with Britain will never go away”
Sep 30th, 2015 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Richard Gott
@17 Vestige
Sep 30th, 2015 - 06:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The international/south American relations of 60 million people in GB are affected by how GB sets its priorities in the south Atlantic.” My considerable experience of living and working in Latin America indicates that this is Argentine “tosh”!
@35 Marquitos Alejandrito - more “tosh”. Richard Gott is alone in his opinion - he was suspected of being a spy for Russia anyway. Nobody gives him credence, except you. You juvenile twerp!
35 Marcos Alejandro (#) Richard Gott
Sep 30th, 2015 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0In a proper democracy like the UK, all shades of opinion are accepted and even the most wrong-headed and offensive tolerated. This does not mean that the ideas expressed by the likes of Gott and Corbyn will hold sway with the vast majority. What it does mean is that the UK is a tolerant, inclusive society with a long history of developing and defending human rights and the democratic process.
Argentina on the other hand is a ............. no need to go any further is there?
Vestige- Do please list evidence where Britain is loosing trade with;
Sep 30th, 2015 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil
Chile
Peru
Columbia
Uruguay
because of UK policy over the Falklands.
Evidence please.
Alejo....So a blog site full of Argentine Propaganda, more holes in it than Swiss Cheese. Certainly half the heading is correct ....'Fiction of the Malvinas Islands'
Sep 30th, 2015 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 038 - I cant give you evidence. I dont have such industrial/governmental links.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Difficult for a layman such as myself to give evidence of negatives/lost opportunities in any case.
However, its common sense to know that good relations improve trade, and the inverse.
36 - hows it tosh? Do you not think its possible that random members of the GB public when dealing directly with an Argentinian could have had their relationship negatively effected by the current islands situation.
I think it would be naive not to think so.
Personally I can relate a story of a friend of mine from a country which has had issues with GB imperialism*, perfectly good products from GB factories often went unsold, american alternatives usually chosen simply because of a visible union flag.
Thats how relations affect trade.
Apply this principal to large contracts in south america/mercosur.
*can you guess which one. Ill give you 5 guesses.
Ok 8.
@32
Sep 30th, 2015 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0$485 million is only £ 33.9 million at todays rate of $ 14.32 to £ 1, so who cares? Your country obviously needs the imports so banning them is only cutting off your nose to spite your face, something the Argie government are good at.
“$485 million is only £ 33.9 million at todays rate of $ 14.32 to £ 1”
Sep 30th, 2015 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Typo ?
£339 million maybe. Thats annually. Not exactly a small number. I don't think its an issue of banning, just lost opportunities for the mid sized business in England. Or maybe the odd British based multi-national.
A 2014 listing from a .gov.uk site has it as £289 million per annum.
As well as quoting disagreements over UK sovereignty of the Falkland Islands as a challenge.
I take that as a reference to what I was saying regarding missed/lost opportunities.
The attitude of the people on those islands really does significant economic damage to GB.
Good to see the leader of the opposition bringing it to public attention in parliament.
Although in fairness he's not the first. Galloway was quite outspoken on the problem too.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exporting-to-argentina/doing-business-in-argentina-argentina-trade-and-export-guide
@42
Sep 30th, 2015 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry old son you are wrong
$ 485 million at $ 14.29 = £ 33.9 million
or $ 485 million @ $ 9.42 = U$S 51.49 million
or has your schooling not taught you maths?
Vestige, - OK - can you look at say the figures for trade and other political/social/scientific/educational etc agreements between all those countries over say last 20 yrs - that should give an indication of good relations or a move towards more strained relations.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why has UK in the last few years increased its diplomatic representation in most of those countries? That alone is something you do NOT usually do when you have troubled relations.
UK spends say £100million or so of Falkland defence.
Falklands imports from UK say £75million a year of assorted goods and services
Falklands pays to UK based contract staff- who remit a large part of their wages back home eventually several million a year in cash.
UK based oil operational supply companies supply many millions of £s of kit to support the offshore programmes here.
I would say at the end of the day the UK Defence Policy over the Falklands is COST NEUTRAL to UK.
And the day you find me 50% of the UK voting public who are against the principle of self determination for the Falklands - I will eat a hat for you!”
A
Fact: Corbyn is a silly irrelevance as far as British foreign policy is concerned.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fact: The Falklands will remain free and independent as long as their people desire it.
Fact: The British people will never forget the sacrifices made by our heroic troops to liberate the Falklands from the cowardly, corrupt, brutal Argentine regime.
Fact: The mayor of Buenos Aires and presidential hopeful Mauricio Macri has said: “I never quite understood the sovereignty claims of such a big country as ours. We don't have a space problem such as Israel, for example”.
Sr Macri needs to be very, very careful. Any Argentinian who dares to speak out about this farcical claim needs to watch his back. Next thing President Corruptina Kirchner will be announcing to the world that Sr Macri has suicided himself.
44 Islander and others
Sep 30th, 2015 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have to laugh - Vestige makes up economic trends, and admits he has nothing to support them except what he believes- and he wants to base an argument on it.!!
There is no monetary basis to this - it's a moral and legal, issue of historical sovereignty and self determination - whether he chooses to believe it or not.
This is mere chaff thrown up by “Vestige” to deflect us away from logical discussion.
Nothing he says has not been dismissed as rubbish, countless times before.
@32
Sep 30th, 2015 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige, com'on are my figures correct or not?
43 - '$' symbol represents united states dollars in this context.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 044 - “Why has UK in the last few years increased its diplomatic representation in most of those countries? ” - very vague claim but I'd put it down to natural world population growth if it did occur.
i.e - in the 70's you only neeedd one embassy building in one district, 2015 - population and trade has grown so you now need two.
I very much doubt that GB/falklands colony trade covers the cost of lost opportunity in Argentina, a country of 50 million ppl, let alone knock on effects mercosur.
Its unlikely you'll have to eat your hat any time soon, but I think the more the facts are put to GB's public and the less knee jerk reaction from hot heads the more probable that your hat will one day be served to you.
Corbyn has broken the trend*, words out, now it will get talked about and I think thats great.
* or at least followed up on Galloways work.
I think Corbyn will find that his position as the leader of labour party will be up for 'discussion' far sooner than that of the Falkland Islands.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@48
You are right about one thing, his career will be as successful as Galloway's.
@49 Britworker
Sep 30th, 2015 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You took the words right out of my mouth.
Poor Vestige desperately clutching at straws.
Corbyn can't negotiate the Falklands away because he doesn't have the power to do that, even IF he did become Prime Minister.
These people, like Vestige, who come from pseudo democracies, where their Presidents are dictators, don't understand that in true democracies there is no one 'all powerful' person who calls the shots.
If a PM were to work against the good of the people he can be removed very easily and very quickly. All it takes is one vote of no-confidence and they're history. Should Corbyn ever become PM (as unlikely as that actually is) and he tried to sell out the Falkland Islanders he'd be out on his ear faster than superman on grease, because ALL opposition MPs and a huge proportion of his own MPs who kick him out.
I mean just look at the embarrassing climb down he's had to make over Trident! The Unions were threatening to dumb him there and then.
Corbyn is a politician who looks back at the utter chaos of the 70's with teary nostalgia. His problem is that the majority of people who remember the 70's, remember politicians like Corbyn, and his Union paymasters, destroying the UK's manufacturing base, and it's economy. You see that is what socialism does. It destroys wealth, which in turn, makes more people poor.
It took Maggie, who made some very hard and unpopular decisions, to pull the UK back from the brink of bankruptcy and give people faith in the economy and the future again.
Poor Vestige can only look with envy at the success of the UK and Falkland Islands, whilst all around him is corruption, poverty, and a government who continuously tells you the ship isn't sinking from the safety of the only lifeboat.
Vestige - Read 50 above for what is pretty accurate as regards Corbyn,s longer term chances. When in the last 65 years did labour win an election in UK with a Left Wing Leader? They sound good and are admired for their guts to speak out by the overall UK voters and are probabaly very good constituency MPs. BUT UK as a whole is NOT leftwing - and has never elected a Left Wing Govt, and is highly unlikely to do so in 5 yrs time.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK voters as a whole will go for a bit left of centre or a bit right of center -or somewhere inbetween.
As for trade with Argentina - Which Country is busting a gut to get in there with lots of investment etc etc?
Other than China - and best of luck to you there - and it is for their long term political and military gains (not because the like Argentina) I am unaware of those rushing to your doors?
Especially when Argentina continues to teeter on the verge of economic collapse and has such a good record of later throwing foreign companies out!
The House of Commons has messed up the House of Lords.. Lord Coke came from the House of Commons and was put there by the House of Commons, they have messed up the Judiciary, fixed term Parliaments, the House of Commons devolved the UK against England and are having trouble patching the rubbish Labour did.. and to cap it all now the House of Commons has given the Nation CORBYN .. isn't it time that we got rid of these politicians and relied on our Crown? The more “power” the Commons have the worse England and the UK gets. Let us hope Corbyn is the last straw.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17 Vestige
Sep 30th, 2015 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here:
http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/p.willetts/SAC/UN/UN-LIST.HTM
Tells you all you need to know about the legal position, including references and links.
As I said, it’s the UN position that they are a people with the right to self-determination and that their interests are paramount in this.
http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/p.willetts/SAC/UN/UN-LIST.HTM
“The UN monitors progress towards self-determination in the Territories, of which there are currently 17: American Samoa, Anguilla, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands (Malvinas), French Polynesia, Gibraltar, Guam, Montserrat, New Caledonia, Pitcairn, St. Helena, Tokelau, Turks and Caicos Islands, United States Virgin Islands and Western Sahara.”
“The UN Charter binds administering Powers to recognize that the interests of dependent Territories are paramount”
Corbyn as Gandi, now that is a thought, wonder if he is at the stage of drinking his own piss yet.
No one has to be “quietly like Corbyn”, in this country the Malvinas is a dead issue, no one is going to know what you’re on about never mind beat you up over it.
As for mass conversions to the cause, don’t hold your breath or bother sending the Pope.
It is very much in the interests of the British to defend the Islanders against Argentina. By so doing we protect our own territories of S. Georgia/Sandwich Islands. Not to mention the vast British territory in Antarctica.
If you can’t take the Falklands you have no chance with the rest.
Seriously now, the distribution of the population throughout the territory is as irrelevant to what rights they have, as is whether the rock beneath them is Granite or Limestone.
You’ll have to show me where I called you names?
@48
Sep 30th, 2015 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just as I thought your education is wanting, you do not know the difference between U$S and the peso $ I suppose they do not teach you that in school. So an apology is awaited. We in the UK have our own symbal for our currency we did not plagerise other countries symbals.
53 (et al) - cant answer all these q's as Im busy posting on other forums about how GB can fix its colonial problem in the SA.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can counter my opinion on the subject by expressing your own - thus raising the issues profile/bringing more attention to the problem/causing it to become a topic of discussion and consideration in GB.
☺
Wow poor Vestige is all tied up in knots.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Supposedly there is now a formula for when a country is a colony. It seems to have something to do with how many of its residents are born there.
I'd love to know where the line is? Where the number of locally born residents ticks over a magic number and voila you aren't a colony!
But then what can I expect when $ suddenly only means US$ even when no one was talking about the US. Oh well now that Vestige has confessed his confusion the original exchange rate claim is valid.
And don't worry Vestige we are all happy to raise the issue/bring more attention to Argentina's claim. Glad you're doing the same.
After all, exposing lies only helps the UK.
@Vestige
Sep 30th, 2015 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact the Republic of Ireland is one of the UK's leading export partners. That your mate won't buy anything with a Union flag on it says more about the friends you keep than about the modern trading and political relationship between the UK and RoI. The people of the RoI accepted self-determination for N.Ireland in a referendum and then accepted the dropping of their claim of sovereignty and jurisdiction in N.Ireland in a separate referendum. Hey, that's democracy for you.
Speaking of which, Corbyn has kicked off with the worst poll ratings for an incoming leader of the opposition in my lifetime, and that was before he said he wouldn't defend the UK against a nuclear strike. There was a Union leader on the news tonight talking about the Defence of the Realm being essential and thus Corbyn having to resign if he can't uphold it. And his own Shadow defence sec. implied the same. Strange days indeed. But I wouldn't get your hopes up.
most GB folks I talk to refer to the place as a colony.
Sep 30th, 2015 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0go ask someone what the symbol '$' means.
Cheers for keeping it in the limelight - guess that means it wont be a dead issue like 53 said.
No need to thank me. Will happily refute Argentinean lies. Will also happily expose cyclical attempts at logic. It's not difficult.
Oct 01st, 2015 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0But I am confused. So now the Falkland Islands are a colony because people refer to it as such? Oh. So it isn't based on how much of the population is locally born?
Very hard to pin down the logic.
Oh well. There are worse things than being a colony of the UK in 2015. I mean, they could be occupied by Argentina. So a UK colony is definitely a positive when you consider that.
As for the $ symbol. Wow so parochial. Get out in the world and realise how many people use this symbol. It is difficult to act so worldly when you show how little you know.
Skip,
Oct 01st, 2015 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I laugh at Vestige - he goes to the trouble to make up facts, in order to formulate a hypothesis(again), and when challenged he claims he is too busy to defend himself!!
Chuckle,
BTW - Canuck $. Yankee $, Confederate $, Oz $, Kiwi $, Hong Kong $... spring to mind, and how many currencies have adopted “$” as their symbol, too!
57 - what makes you think it was Ireland. It could have been any other country where people were tired of British colonial meddling.
Oct 01st, 2015 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0My only hope is that GB's poor policy in the islands gets highlighted to the GB public - so it can be increasingly seen how backward looking, illogical and costly it is.
So do me a favor and talk to people about it, I know I will.
You can't stop reason.
☺
61 vestige
Oct 01st, 2015 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0kinda irrelevant - you're on the outside, looking in - jealously.
“You can't stop reason”
er... yeah. Waiting to hear some...
@61
Oct 01st, 2015 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously you mean N.Ireland as it's the only other thing you bang on about.
You see, I used “reason”.
And when the UK public discover that ~0.005% of UK expenditure (that's ~1/200th of 1%) is spent defending the islands they will pause, look oddly at you and return to what they were doing. In any case most of that spending would have to occur anyway, wherever the troops were hosted. But don't let that stop you trying to educate us all.
#55
Oct 01st, 2015 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is this your full-time job that you write to other forums and discuss it with other “like minded people” ? The only mention of Argentina here is how they will do in the Rugby World Cup. Where are you meeting all these Brits.to discuss it ?
#61
To what poor policy in the islands are you referring ?
I think the large bulk of the population in the UK are happy enough with our Government's stand.
Argentina has been offered tripartite talks by the UK but refuses the offer.
So, what is your beef. In the mean time, the Arg. propaganda machine continually lies about the history of the Islands on the world stage,,,boo hoo we only want to talk but the nasty colonial Brits. refuse.
Vestige:
Oct 01st, 2015 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please tell me what would the Islands be if the natural born population of many generations were forced to live under a Govt they did not want nor had asked for?
Do please look up the work Colony.
Just admit it, Vestige.
Oct 01st, 2015 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Your pride won't allow you to further admit that you know that Argentina has no valid claim to the Falklands & you have convinced yourself that the UK is weak & will just roll over & hand the islands to your backward country.
Hate to burst your bubble, bozo, but it just ain't agonna happen.
Don't cry, l understand.
“More hot air from you.”
Oct 01st, 2015 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“has your schooling not taught you maths?”
“You have to laugh - Vestige makes up economic trends,”
“This is mere chaff thrown up by “Vestige” to deflect ”
“Poor Vestige desperately clutching at straws.”
“Just as I thought your education is wanting”
“These people, like Vestige, who come from pseudo democracies”
“Poor Vestige can only look with envy ”
“poor Vestige is all tied up in knots”
“I laugh at Vestige”
“you're on the outside, looking in - jealously”
“Is this your full-time job ”
“Just admit it, Vestige.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.”
All this because I suggested solutions to the falklands/malvinas problem similar in ways to those of prior British governments, the UN, mp Galloway, and the leader of the labour party in the GB parliament.
The reader/neutral observer must surely see that my critics cannot argue my points and must resort, out of desperation to arguing the man.
67 vestige of a failed ideology
Oct 01st, 2015 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The reader/neutral observer must surely see that my critics cannot argue my points and must resort, out of desperation to arguing the man.”
The reader/neutral observer will see you for what you are, now that they understand your motives and how much of your hypotheses are based on false 'facts' that you or CFK's government have conjured up.
Don't fall off your soapbox - it gets a bit wobbly up there, when you ask your audience to put aside human decency and civil rights in order to annex someone else's homes.
35 Marcos Alejandro
Oct 01st, 2015 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ichard Gott is a discredited British journalist who was accused of being a Russian agent and who resigned from The Guardian after admitting receiving money from the KGB. He admitted his “stupidity” in his dealings with the Soviet Union and the same word can be used to describe his views on the Falklands. He is an utter irrelevance in any discussion of South America.
BTW “vestige”,
Oct 01st, 2015 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0criticisising you for making up facts to fit your story, not only “argues the man”.
The facts supporting your ' argument' are in question and we have argued that with NO response from you, and the INTEGRITY of “the man”, “vestige”, is also demonstrated to be sorely lacking.
By omission, you do not present a case with all the facts - either by your political association, or what you stand to gain by UK abandoning the Falklands.
Not a good basis for your “reasoned” and “neutral” discussion.
@Vestige
Oct 01st, 2015 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British have no colonies anymore, Hong Kong was the last one, whose inhabitants were very sad to see the British leave.
“Colonial meddling” these days is done by the Russians and Chinese. Even the Americans generally just “meddle” with no intention of “colonising” a place.
As for a “solution”, well there hasn’t been a UN resolution calling on the British to “negotiate” with Argentina since 1988. There has never been a UN resolution saying the British should “negotiate” “sovereignty”.
For there to be a “negotiation”, more than one outcome must be possible, in a situation where for one party the outcome is already decided, it cannot be called a negotiation it is a capitulation.
As Argentina cannot even get the Brits to “negotiate”, to expect a “capitulation” would seem to be a somewhat overoptimistic expectation.
Unless of course you can get a UN resolution saying the Brits should capitulate, should be no problem with over 100 countries supporting you and only 193 members of the UNGA.
Otherwise, when Argentina is ready to “negotiate” renouncing it claim, can we talk of solutions. Until then, well the status quo suits us, that it doesn’t suit Argentina is Argentina’s problem not ours, next stop Antarctica for us.
Vestige
Oct 01st, 2015 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is it you don't understand ? The UK Govt. has no objections to talks - the ones that you advocate. All that we require IS that the people who live on the islands are part of the discussions.
This surely is what everyone approves. So why does Argentina refuse. What are they scared of ?
Within the next 25 years the UK will return the Malvinas.
Oct 02nd, 2015 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 067 Last Vestige (#) “All this because I suggested solutions to the falklands/malvinas problem .......”
Oct 02nd, 2015 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0What problem?
There is no real problem; therefore no solution is required.
Argentina has chosen to create a problem of its own making by falsely claiming a group of Islands for which it has not entitlement. It then compounded its error by writing ownership of the Falklands into its constitution. The solution to Argentina’s ‘problem’ lies exclusively with Argentina, not the UN or China or Russia or any of the multiple trade groupings that it has tried to use to solve ITS problem.
Argentina could resolve its self-made problem in 5 minutes if it was prepared to behave like a decent civilised country instead of a cheap and nasty imitation of a fascist dictatorship.
Hepatitus, idiot. Pigs will fly… you cannot return something to someone who never had it! Grow up..
Oct 02nd, 2015 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 073 Hepatia
Oct 02nd, 2015 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Within the next 25 years Argentina will return the Chaco it stole from Paraguay. And when the Chaco is returned to its rightful owners, perhaps its starving people will get the food they deserve. To think that when the Qom aboriginal boy Oscar Sanchez died in the Chaco two weeks ago at the age of 14, he weighed 11 kilos. Shame, shame, shame on the corrupt, criminal, bankrupt, murderous Kirchner regime which allows children to starve to death. But, let's face facts, Corruptina is so ignorant and callous she has no concept of shame.
In the next 25 years--Hepatia may well not be here.
Oct 02nd, 2015 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 062 Troy Tempest
Oct 02nd, 2015 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You can't stop reason”
er... yeah. Waiting to hear some...
Much LOLZ!! I don't know why but this just made me roll with laughter!!
What a brilliant, brilliant put down. Nuff Respec for that one.
Sorry, I've got to go away now and laugh some more........
78
Oct 02nd, 2015 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thx, too old.
Vestige IS earnest, even if not too bright.
@73
Oct 03rd, 2015 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Within the next 25 years Argentina will return Ushuaia and Santa Cruz to the Falkland Islands.
Soon after England wins the world cup of rugby at home...o wait a minute:-)))
Oct 03rd, 2015 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Within the next 25 years Argentina will be forced to decolonise Tierra del Fuego, Sta Cruz, and Chubut provinces, returning them to their original indigenous inhabitants, as specified by the UN.
Oct 04th, 2015 - 02:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Within the next 25 years, Argentina will have defaulted more than 18 times on its sovereign foreign currency debt, and not even Beijing will lend them money anymore, for all the tea in China.
Within the next 25 years and the suspension of the present Antarctic Treaty, Argentina's claim to a portion of Antarctic that was previously claimed by the UK will pass into history, in part because Argentina still won't have a ship capable of supplying their former colony there.
Within the next 25 years the annual rate of inflation in Argentina will reach more than 50 percent, while the INDEC will continue to claim that it is not more than 1,2 percent.
Within the next 25 years, Argentina's last warship will have rolled over at its pier, and sunk, while its government will stage a press conference to laud its efforts to convert the old rust-bucket into an artificial reef.
Within the next 25 years, the rate of exchange will be somewhere around 96000 Argentine pesos to the Blue Dollar, while the official rate of exchange will be artificially capped at 10 to the dollar.
Within the next 25 years, no one will be able to say “Argentina” without rolling their eyes and laughing.
82 Marti Llazo
Oct 04th, 2015 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brilliant and congratulations on a superb exposition. May I add that within the next 25 years Corruptina Kirchner and her pet pygmy Héctor Timerman will be in jail after being found guilty of embezzling millions from the long-suffering Argentina people.
67 Vestige “All this because I suggested solutions to the falklands/malvinas problem ”
Oct 05th, 2015 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The simple answer to that is for Argentina to stop claiming our Islands belong to them. You and I both know that they do not.
More than nine generations of pure Falkland islanders settle this land I should know I am one of them. We are the majority and it is my home not yours so it is my right with all fellow Islanders to determine our future and we have done that. Our desire is to remain British we chose not to be a part of Argentina because Argentina has nothing remotely like the way of life we already have and has nothing to offer that we don't already have. We learned a long time ago that Argentina is a greedy nation who cares little for human rights . They invaded us , they trashed our homeland. This is not the kind of people we want to be any part of or have links with why should we. There are many other Latin American Countries that we can live alongside who does not threaten us .
We will never give up our right to the freedom we have chosen and any British Labour government knows that.
It is all political talk to get attention because at the end of the day Corbyn and others who come along know that the vast majority of Britons will never allow our Islands to be given to any Argentine power ever.
Yeah Vestige,
Oct 06th, 2015 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Keep your nose out of our business.
Nothing that we do is of any concern to you or Argentina.
We do not see a Falklands problem,
(There is no such place as “malvinas”except in Argentine heads).
Only Argentina has a “problem”.
Life goes on(thankfully without Argentina!)lol.
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