MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina celebrates 112th anniversary of flag flying and presence in Antarctica
Argentina Antarctica Day was celebrated on Monday 22 February, recalling the 112th anniversary of the first time the country's flag was flown at the Meteorological and Magnetic Observatory in the Laure Island, South Orkneys in 1904. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesAre they trying to steal Antarctica now? Rather late to the game according to some down here
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe they own the moon also?
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0lt does shine on Argentina, so it must be theirs!
Unlike with the FI, Argentina has had a solid, permanent presence in Antartica for over a century, as well as a solid and well prepared case to justify both its presence and aspirations over the place.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0btw, just because a British national landed in some area of Antartica some years before and a claim was made from a desk in Londond it does not mean that the whole continent belongs to the UK.
Sounds familiar? ;)
But, in order to be fair, I think it would be great if Antartica remains under the current treaty, so it is well preserved. It is the last truly wild place on this planet.
I celebrate this anniversary and I hope for many more to come.
What is certain under law, is that Antarctica is not and will never be British.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0And yes, it is Argentine. And Chilean and Australian and New Zealander and South African. The Brittos, Frogos, and Nowitchians can gladly have nothing.
Certain under law?
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahaha, please regale us with this “law” you speak of!
Argentina Antarctica Day? WTF!?
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0No wonder their economy is as bad as it is when they spend day in day out celebrating some nonsense or another.
The dope @ no:4 - You constantly make it up as you go along. You clearly haven't heard of Queen Elizabeth land which not only belongs to Britain but guess what!? Just so happens to be in the Antarctica and the biggest of the BOT's.
There is no “certain law” you speak off. Enough with the BS already.
”George Powell claimed the South Orkneys for Britain in 1821…Argentina dates its presence in Antarctica from 1904, when Britain invited Argentina to take over the huts left by Bruce's expedition on Laurie Island in the South Orkney Islands (not part of the Antarctic mainland). However, no official Argentine claim to the Antarctic continent was raised until 1943.”
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Getting it right: the real history of the Falklands/Malvinas by Graham Pascoe and Peter Pepper
@ 7 Interesting, thanks for bringing info over the table.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0I´d love to read the terms of that invitation. A British renounce maybe? ;)
Nevertheless, and if have learn something here, it is that “simply claiming” is not enough unless you back that claim with something else, like active presence.
“The Letters Patent consolidated and confirmed the 18th-century claims made by Captain James Cook and others, and were published in the official Falkland Islands Gazette. On 20 February 1909 the British Minister in Buenos Aires sent a copy of the Gazette to the Argentine Foreign Ministry, who acknowledged receipt on 18 March, but Argentina registered no protest or even official comment at that time.” Getting it right: the real history of the Falklands/Malvinas by Graham Pascoe and Peter Pepper
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0When I visited an Adele Penguin colony on the Antarctic peninsular there was an odd Argie dressed in one of those jackets wandering about aimlessly. There were Leopord Seals about and the penguins were all at the waters edge mumbling “you first, no you first”. We were surprised he never waded in?
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3, @4
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Antarctic Treaty
“No acts or activities taking place while the present Treaty is in force shall constitute a basis for asserting , supporting or denying a claim to territorial sovereignty in Antarctica or create any rights of sovereignty in Antarctica. No new claim, or enlargement of an existing claim to territorial sovereignty in Antarctica shall be asserted while the present Treaty is in force.”
This means that e.g flying in pregnant women to give birth will do Argentina no good.
@ 11
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Presence and claim both pre-date the Treaty.
Nevertheless, I stand by my words, “it would be great if Antartica remains under the current treaty, so it is well preserved. It is the last truly wild place on this planet ”
And BTW, the treaty works both ways, not just “against X party” and “in favor of Y” party.
Curious, although Argentina´s permanent presence is one of the oldest, it indeed made a formal sovereign claim after the UK and Chile.
Argentina will be removed from Antarctica within 25 years.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 13
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excuse me ? may I ask for further info ? maybe you have something to share with us.
@12 SebaSvtz
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes and Britain's presence and claim predates both the treaty and Argentina's claim and presence.
Also it's pretty hard to state that you've got a permanent presence there when over the last few years your 'colony' has only survived because of the generosity of others, such as Chile, the UK and so on, who have resupplied that colony (free of charge) when Argentina didn't have the resources to do it themselves.
The UK has also had an active presence in Antarctica for longer than Argentina has.
As to the treaty. You see the problem with those pesky treaties is that they replace old treaties. Just like new laws replace old laws. So when every country (including Argentina) signed the new treaty you were promising to abide by it and forsake the older treaties.
You can wave the flag, fly in as many pregnant women as you like, but it doesn't change the fact that the status quo is the same now as when the treaty was signed. Nothing that Argentina, the UK or any other country does affects that. NOTHING. Not even a million pregnant women being flown in (and what a stupid risk to take with a woman and her unborn child - absolutely unforgivable) to give birth can affect the treaty. Yes it all stays as it was until the treaty expires.
And if the treaty expires, then who knows what will happen.
1. The International Courts of Justice could make a ruling on whom has what (taking into account who claimed what 1st and I'm sure any other relevant points of law). What they may come up with is giving everyone a share, but not necessarily what they want. Of course, it would be up to the individual countries to decide if they would abide by any ICJ rulings. OR....
2. International law won't apply anymore and the people with the biggest guns will take what they want. And I'm afraid that currently that won't be Argentina (you can barely resupply your Antarctic base as it is).
Personally I hope neither of these things happen, and the treaty remains in force forever.
@ 15
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Personally I hope neither of these things happen, and the treaty remains in force forever”
My thoughts & words exactly. Glad to see we share the same idea.
At 4
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I take it you are unaware of who Roald Amundsen was then ya tube.
“anniversary of flag flying ...”
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-- I seem to recall that the cruiser Belgrano was flying the same flag when it sank into the mud
#4 Tooooooobiiiiii.......spring will soon be arriving to the Canadian Rockies. I bet you can hardly wait for the warm weather to re-appear. You would believe how warm it was in Argentina......even in Patagonia. I strongly urge you to visit Argentina someday before you die,
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Orcadas Base is the oldest argentine antartic base bought from Argentina (during Julio A. Roca presidency) to the UK. Since then onwards it has always been with permanent personnel.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is the oldest permanent antartic base ever. None other country had been permanently in the Antartic Continent. This doesn't mean anything in terms of claimings though
I wonder who will fly out and replenish the food stocks for these glorious examples of argies?
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We KNOW it won't be Argentina: they CANNOT do it themselves.
How may times have the Brits helped these forgotten people whilst TMBOA was president, I have lost count? Without this help people would have starved to death.
Keep flying the flag, it seems that is all you can do.
As for the 'governor' of shitless Ushuaia, she needs to find the money to fix the sewers.
@13 Marti Llazo,
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL! Love it.
That will go right over her head!
If that was us, and a union jack flying,
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the argies would be screaming all the way to the UN,
get rid of them before they claim the whole bloody planet.
You will note the cowardly nature of Argentistan's claim to the Antarctic peninsula.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was done years after the claims by others, in 1943, whilst Argentistan was supporting the Axis.
@16 Everybody knows once the treaty expires, everything goes. Humanity is too thirsty for more resources to exploit to leave Antartica untouched.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another reason to rearm Argentina.
“rearm Argentina”
Feb 24th, 2016 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0ja ja ja ja
Monos con navajas.
http://www.diario21.tv/notix2/multimedia/imagenes/fotos/2014-07-21/984162.jpg
@25 MagnusMaster
Feb 24th, 2016 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rearm? We've already had this discussion.
Argentina won't rearm because:
a) It would cost billions of dollars (even buying second hand older equipment, ships and planes) that Argentina doesn't have. Plus you have a lousy record of actually maintaining your equipment. So buying equipment doesn't mean anything unless you can learn to look after your toys. And you won't do that whilst corruption is rife in Argentina, and everyone taking their 'cut' of any money set aside for it. Just like your ice breaker. Millions of dollars 'spent' (you could've bought an entire new one for less) yet it still isn't fixed. The money 'disappeared' into various officials off shore bank accounts.
b) You said it yourself. You don't trust the military not to take over again, so you are too afraid to rearm them.
Face it, if we get to the point where the treaty expires and a new one isn't agreed, everyone will be staking a claim. The UK, Chile, Russia, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Argentina and the USA.
Which of these countries can back it up with military force? Psst! It won't be Argentina.
As I said above, you can barely keep your Argentine 'outpost' resupplied as it is. Numerous times in the last 10 years both the UK and Chile have had to resupply the people who are based there to prevent them from starving to death, or freezing to death.
So if you can't resupply your base in peacetime, what hope would you have at resupplying it in a time of potential hostilities?
But personally I think Antarctica should be left alone. No one should be allowed to ruin it. It should be protected from humanities greed and selfishness forever.
l agree, Antarctica should be left alone.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't think it will be however.
The fresh water alone is a big attraction, never mind the minerals & oil lurking under the ice.
When the world starts running out of resources there will be a scramble for Antarctica, unfortunately.
@27 ”Rearm? We've already had this discussion.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina won't rearm because:
a) It would cost billions of dollars (even buying second hand older equipment, ships and planes) that Argentina doesn't have. Plus you have a lousy record of actually maintaining your equipment. So buying equipment doesn't mean anything unless you can learn to look after your toys. And you won't do that whilst corruption is rife in Argentina, and everyone taking their 'cut' of any money set aside for it. Just like your ice breaker. Millions of dollars 'spent' (you could've bought an entire new one for less) yet it still isn't fixed. The money 'disappeared' into various officials off shore bank accounts.
b) You said it yourself. You don't trust the military not to take over again, so you are too afraid to rearm them.”
So we should accept we are inferior people incapable of running an army and bend over to you? Forget about it. Eventually we will have to face corruption and trust our army and rearm. Otherwise we will be inferior people who are constantly messed with by the powerful.
And Antartica won't be left alone...
#29: You're obsessed with this “bending over” thing and seeing yourselves as inferior, as we saw on the other thread.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Military strength is not the determining factor though. If it were, then every nation should regard itself as 'inferior' to the USA, with a couple of possible exceptions such as China and Russia. But that isn't the case, is it?
For example, Chile is respected for the way it has thrown off the shackles of the Pinochet era and the “Chicago Boys” neo-liberalism experiment and is turning itself into a modern country.
Argentina can earn respect in several ways. Facing up to its past and purging the endemic corruption, and finding out why prosecutors suddenly commit suicide; respecting international law and peoples, and dropping its ridiculous Falklands claim (and other territorial disputes; reaching agreements on financing with other nations; and working with other nations rather than grandstanding and moaning.
It's nothing to do with Antarctica, or the UK - and everything to do with Argentina itself. Time for the country to grow up and stop pretending to be such a victim of perceived injustices everywhere.
SebaSvtz is abosolutely right. A Scottish expedition, under Bruce, set up the weather station in 1903 then asked London to keep it going. The wonks in the Colonial office thought the whole region worthless, and refused to help, so he gave it to Argentina in return for all their help. In the 1940s the armed ship, Carnarfon Castle visited the Argentine base and did nothing to move the residents on. De Facto recognition that they were not there illegally. (Britain was too reliant on Argentine beef to make much of a fuss).
Feb 24th, 2016 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 30
Feb 24th, 2016 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0I fully endorse that comment. Well put.
now, why that is not done ... is beyond my understanding.
Regards.
@29 “Otherwise we will be inferior people who are constantly messed with by the powerful.”
Feb 24th, 2016 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0--Read: “ Otherwise we won't have an excuse for our persecution complex and our expenditures for mental health therapy that greatly exceed those spent for defence, so devastating is the impact of Argentine Toxic Domestic Culture Syndrome. ”
@30 You make a good point. However, to defend our interests and our country a strong army is needed. Or an army that has ammunition, at the very least.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The vast mayority of people in Argentina thinks the UK has no rights to the South Atlantic, so no claim will be dropped. Not in the near future.
@34 “The vast mayority of people in Argentina thinks the UK has no rights to the South Atlantic”
Feb 24th, 2016 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Outside of Argentina, it doesn't really matter what somebody in Argentina thinks. And you need to get over that. “The vast majority of people in North Korea thinks......” “The vast majority of people in Botswana thinks.....” Same thing. What they think just doesn't matter.
Wake up and recognise that Argentina is of absolutely no consequence except to the pompously elevated Argentine ego. Argentina could disappear tomorrow and the only notice we would see would be a tiny note in the back of the Sports pages and a sigh of relief from the neighbours.
@34 MagnusMaster
Feb 24th, 2016 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the vast majority of people in the UK thinks that we do have rights to the South Atlantic, and we outnumber Argentina by about 20 million. So our claim won't be dropped.
But it doesn't alter the fact that if the treaty expires and it becomes a free for all to exploit the riches of the Antarctic, Argentina won't stand a chance against any of the other claimants, most of whose claims are older than Argentina's.
I'd like to see Argentina try to stop the UK, USA, Australia, South Africa, Russia or Chile from exploiting the resources in that case.
I mean, wouldn't it be handy to have sovereignty over some islands close to Antarctica? Which is the real reason that Argentina has falsely claimed the Falklands, South Georgia, and the South Sandwich Islands (which Argentina has even less of claim to than the Falklands). Because it would be really handy to have bases on those islands to facilitate the extraction of natural resources.
Of course, the UK isn't stupid. When we 1st claimed those islands (long before Argentina existed) it was to protect the trade routes around the Straight of Magellans or Drake passage. Hence why Spain and then the United Provinces (Argentina still didn't exist at the time) wanted the Falklands.
Who'd've thought that nearly 200 years later having sovereignty over those islands would give the UK an advantage over many of the other claimants to Antarctica.
But unlike Argentina, the UK wouldn't force our sovereignty on anyone. The Falkland Islanders can choose for themselves who they want to be ruled by. And they rejected Argentina by 98%. The other 2% were probably opting for Independence.
So should the Antarctic treaty fail or expire, it's doubtful Argentina will be in any position to do anything other than what you're already doing. Which is complain.
But as I said. I hope that the Antarctic is protected from humanities greed forever.
@36 LEPRecon,
Feb 24th, 2016 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent post.
l couldn't have put it better myself.
Argentines need to get over their perceived injustices & sense of victimhood.
They really think that they matter to the rest of the world.
Unfortunately for them, they do not.
#34: “However, to defend our interests and our country a strong army is needed. ”
Feb 24th, 2016 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not. What you need is a stable and open government, one which does not renege on treaties, works with others, and demonstrates a good track record.
It works for several countries with small armies. Like, say, Sweden. Or Holland. Or New Zealand. Again - all to do with Argentina, and nothing to do with the outside world.
“The vast mayority of people in Argentina thinks the UK has no rights to the South Atlantic, so no claim will be dropped”
No-one cares what you think. It doesn't matter to anyone else. The rest of the world has demonstrated this and, unless you can generate a credible case and take it to the ICJ and win, no-one will care. Other countries simply pay lip-service to the ramblings of Timerman and Kirchner; then turn round and laugh at you behind your backs.
you should be finding that far more embarrassing than it would be to actually grow up, face reality and drop the nonsensical, anti-democratic, expansionist claim of yours.
Honestly. It's utterly pathetic. It really is
@38 “No-one cares what you think. It doesn't matter to anyone else. The rest of the world has demonstrated this and, unless you can generate a credible case and take it to the ICJ and win, no-one will care. Other countries simply pay lip-service to the ramblings of Timerman and Kirchner; then turn round and laugh at you behind your backs.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you should be finding that far more embarrassing than it would be to actually grow up, face reality and drop the nonsensical, anti-democratic, expansionist claim of yours.
Honestly. It's utterly pathetic. It really is”
If no-one cares then why do you even bother asking us to drop our claim? The Malvinas claim cannot be dropped until the constitution is amended to remove the relevant clause, and the people of Argentina would not allow that anyway. What the rest of the world thinks does not come into it.
I'm not necessarily speaking for myself this time, but the vast mayority of people in Argentina are proud of our territorial claim and stand up for it.
#39: “If no-one cares then why do you even bother asking us to drop our claim?”
Feb 24th, 2016 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In reality: we don't really care. I'm Gibraltarian and we have to put up with this ridiculous nonsense every day from your Spanish partners. It makes not one iota of difference to us really: but it is embarrassing for you, and for them.
Life would simply be easier if we didn't have to spend time countering lies from Hispanic nations; and if we could act and deal with them in a grown-up way.
“The Malvinas claim cannot be dropped until the constitution is amended ”
So amend it.
“and the people of Argentina would not allow that anyway. I'm not necessarily speaking for myself this time, but the vast mayority of people in Argentina are proud of our territorial claim and stand up for it.”
The people of Argentina are indoctrinated with lies: if you started teaching the truth, then they would understand it, given time. But to be honest, being “proud of a claim” that is based on lies is not something to stand up for.
I think the majority of Argentines - like the majority of Spaniards - would rather be proud of a country where they can have some level of trust in their politicians and business leaders, rather than the terrible leaders they currently have. That's something worthwhile.
Agree with 15 and 16: “Personally I hope neither of these things happen, and the treaty remains in force forever.”
Feb 25th, 2016 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If humanity ever gets to the point where it is fighting over Antarctic resources then we're all screwed
@41 Peronist Myth
Feb 25th, 2016 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That day might not be as far away as you think. Maybe even less than 100 years.
I truly hope I'm wrong, but there are already water wars breaking out, and if and when the oil starts to run dry (assuming we haven't all moved away from fossil fuels) then calculating eyes will be turned towards Antarctica.
Time will tell.
@41 We are already screwed.
Feb 25th, 2016 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We may not be proud of our politicians or business leaders, but we have all the reasons to be far more proud than you about our history, since its not stained with crimes both past and actual, that would make any man reek with disgust and explode with righteous rage.
Feb 28th, 2016 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We do not consider your politicians or business leaders to be better than ours, specially because our politics are destined to aid the needy, not like yours, destined to fill the world with bombs, guns, torture, wars, invasions and nuclear weapons.
You can have your false pride, we have ours, we may have less power now, but times change, they always do. History has not ended.
@44 LukeDig,
Feb 29th, 2016 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very profound & meaningful, l'm sure.
Argentina will be removed from Antarctica within 25 years.
Feb 29th, 2016 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As they say, its like bald men arguing over a comb.
Feb 29th, 2016 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The USA has the largest base.
Its never leaving.
You all can argue all you want and it won't make a bit of difference.
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