MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Britain protests 'provocative' incursion in Gibraltar waters by Spanish corvette
Britain has protested to Spain after a Spanish warship “manoeuvred dangerously” during an incursion into British Gibraltar territorial waters, risking collision with a Royal Navy patrol boat. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesPretty standard behaviour from our childish, tantrum-throwing neighbour. Their argument is that Gibraltar has no territorial waters, but the following exchange in the Cortes in Dec 2013 is enlightening:
Feb 26th, 2016 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0MP: So the waters around Gibraltar are Spanish?
Margallo: Yes, definitely
MP: Will we be taking this claim to the International Tribunal of the Law of the Sea?
Margallo: No.
MP: Why not?
Margallo: It would be extremely difficult to win that case and is not in Spanish interests to do so.
So - the Spanish Govt knows the waters are British; but continue to act like pirates. Ridiculous behaviour from a supposedly grown-up 'ally'.
@ 1
Feb 26th, 2016 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Ridiculous behaviour from a supposedly grown-up 'ally' ”
Agree. I hope Spain stops for once and starts behaving accordingly. Spain has nothing to win here and lots to lose.
A smile and a gesture here to get this issue settled for once would be way more useful and even lucrative for Spain than this childish approach.
The conquistadors will continue with this bogus claim, they don't operate a proper democracy, their government and royal family are neck deep in corruption allegations, the whole country is steeped in unpayable debt, unemployment is rife...in the face of all this Gibraltar is a useful distraction...and it will remain so until the British government actually do something other than merely complain to the conquistadors (fat chance)
Feb 26th, 2016 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0It will be interesting to see what happens immediately after the possible Brexit.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After Brexit the Spanish will show their cowardly side and stay well the fuck away from Gibraltar.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And if not the Royal Navy could always show them the error of their ways in a practical manner. Don't think Camoron will be around by then to lick the Spanish arses.
It's like when a dear, crippled friend of mine was bullied at school. It only took one good punch and a bloodied nose to stop it permanently. The bully never realised I was not frightened of him even though he was a year above me (senior school) and a little bigger than I was.
NEVER give way to bullies, I never have.
I remember my uncle, who was Regimental boxing champion, telling me “yes, I got hit, yes it hurt, BUT when I landed a punch on them they didn't like it at all”. Very true in my personal practical experience.
#4: It's unlikely that Britain will actually leave the EU. But if it does, what is likely to happen is that Spain may well close the border, and Gibraltar's economy would suffer enormously.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Other than that, Spain's economy would also suffer as they would not only have an extra 10k unemployed, but their EU funding would drop as the UK is a huge net contributor (indeed, the UK's net contribution, at €93bn, almost exactly matches Spain's net takings at €96bn).
In terms of the territorial waters, or Gibraltar's status - well. Nothing else will happen; although it may free the UK up to take a less passive stance to the stupidity of Spain.
If the UK leaves the EU (or When it does) then I suspect that Spain will be even more provocative than it is now - mostly on the basis of its EU handouts having been slashed and the incumbent government being desperate for any distraction.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hear we go again, span taking the piss, and king David hiding behind the nearest skirt,
Feb 26th, 2016 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the government said its ok we have complained for the millionth time,
and the Spanish have laugh at us for the millionth and one time.
we train with them , at this moment in time we are on naval exercises with them,
there is no excuse what so ever,
If Gibraltar does have to close the border, then thousands of Spanish people will become unemployed.
Feb 27th, 2016 - 01:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think they have really thought about this properly.
When UK goes, the Spanish will be more worried The Catalans will break away next.
Feb 27th, 2016 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The EU has clearly failed
It was a terrible costly experiment that is finally coming to its rightful end.
Uk should put a shot across their bow next time.
Its sad the UK full of pussies now.
I think if GB leaves via Brexit it will be the case that Spain waits for the right time, a healthier Algeciras, and then imposes a reasonable border toll. (And customs rates).
Feb 27th, 2016 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The toll will quietly increase over the years. Border closures will be used at key GB election times to show up the govt in parliament if wanted. (for example if GB counter charges Spain in some way)
Spain will become defacto landlords of Gibraltar.
Well,
Feb 27th, 2016 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if Gibraltar votes to stay,
and Britain voted to leave,
Spain may well think Xmas has come early,
one would think, that one would wait and see what happens,
rather than jumping the gun,
who knows what the future will hold,
Yes. We can only reflect and speculate in the meantime.
Feb 28th, 2016 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar is not part of the EU Customs Union, VAT area nor Schengen.
Feb 28th, 2016 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Should the UK leave the EU, Spain will not be able to impose a border toll or customs rates as these are not Spain's to impose. They are EU areas.
However should Spain treat Gibraltar differently to how it treats the UK then it is only imbuing Gibraltar with its own legal personality, which would only enforce Gibraltar's position in fulfilling one of the forms of independence as set out by the UN.
Seems Spain would gain nothing by a Brexit and it would only serve to further seperate Gibraltar from Spain as the free movement of people that creates contacts and bonds will be severed.
International commerce is a radically different beast since the last time Spain blockaded Gibraltar. Air travel and the Internet means Spain has very little policy levers at its disposal to cow Gibraltar.
Govt land leased to semi-private road operator maybe.
Feb 28th, 2016 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Charge for Gib->Spain route. A token, non-UK-headline worthy amount, nothing shocking. Free pass issued to local Spanish.
Team EU will naturally side with Spain for such small regional adjustments in any case. UK will have no say if brexit happens.
Gib can have all the paper independence it wants.
No need to sever free movement. Financial/political control will suffice.
Drop a concrete block = toll goes up a notch, tourism goes down a notch, voters learn.
If theres a brexit theres little to dissuade Spain making many such adjustments, maybe thats why the Gibraltarians are very anti-brexit.
Guess that means some in here are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
I'm not one such person.
Chuckle.
I understand that approximately 9000 people transverse the border, from Spain, on a daily basis, due to their employment in Gib.
Feb 28th, 2016 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now I doubt that 100% of these people are Spanish but I think we may surmise that the majority are?
How would a border closure be of any benefit?
An interesting case for any Gov of Spain to consider, especially when we look at current rates of unemployment there.
Amazing the lack of justice, and lack of respect for other nations you brits have.
Feb 28th, 2016 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comments are a nice piece, but heres another: “And so they did: between 1968 and 1973, American officials conspired with their British colleagues to remove the Chagossians, carefully hiding their expulsion from Congress, Parliament, the U.N., and the media. During the deportations, British agents and members of a U.S. Navy construction battalion rounded up and killed all those pet dogs. Their owners were then deported to the western Indian Ocean islands of Mauritius and the Seychelles, 1,200 miles from their homeland, where they received no resettlement assistance. More than 40 years after their expulsion, Chagossians generally remain the poorest of the poor in their adopted lands, struggling to survive in places that outsiders know as exotic tourist destinations.”
Such a nice people.
Yes Gibs main labor force does cross daily. I think its in everyones interest that they cross freely. (Just like goods vehicles). Wage inflation isnt good in such a small economy.
Feb 28th, 2016 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The charges can be for tourists and general public.
When the UK leaves the EU block they'll protect and defend Gibralter just like that have for the last 500 years.
Feb 28th, 2016 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige is absolute idiot to think otherwise.
Now now tp, no need to be rude.
Feb 29th, 2016 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Its time to start being polite.
#17: So are you just pointing out a piece of bad behaviour by the UK, or are you advocating that it sells out the Falklanders and Gibraltarians on the grounds that “two wrong make a right”?
Feb 29th, 2016 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#16: Your number is roughly correct and about 60% of them are Spanish. And they all pay taxes in Spain. But I don't think Spain actually cares about its people when it comes to political points-scoring like this.
#15: It's not really viable to impose selective charges on x-border traffic by exempting workers: that's not practical and 50% of the tourist trade doesn't pass through the border anyway. Those you wish to issue a 'free pass' to will still get held up in the massive queues this would create.
Also this could well be an EU-wide matter as it would form an external EU border with the UK: the EU as a whole will not stand for punitive tariffs/checks on goods and people moving between the UK and EU. For Spain to try to impose charges on Gibraltar alone would be problematic and endorse Gibraltar's status as a separate legal entity.
They may still do it, and it would be detrimental for Gibraltar's economy. But it won't move Spain's goal, or Gibraltarian sentiment, one step closer: in fact, the opposite.
What's so shocking about a border if there's a brexit. Isn't that what brexit is all about... Borders.
Feb 29th, 2016 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If there's brexit there absolutely will be a border charge imposed by Spain and on Spains terms alone. (Express lane for Spanish workers).
Imho it won't be very detrimental (well...initially) as long as you do as you're told. Just like any other part of Spain. I'd call that a step closer.
That's why Fabian 'the buffet' Picardo is warning of the existential threat of brexit and wants schengen (almost) as much as he wants another pie.
Don't believe me check the papers.
So do yourselves a favor in the meantime and lift those blocks, it might save you being seen to be following Spanish orders later on.
Spain has no claim,
Feb 29th, 2016 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0as for charges, well, if you charge me,,I will charge you,
simple.
people seem to think that if the unmighty EU put tariffs up against us, we will just pay ,
does one not understand that we to , will put up tariffs against them,
so either way, no one will in, and a trade deal will be made that suits all.
simple is it not,
unless you are a corrupt politician, then simplicity is deemed impossible.
23 - thats a great plan. I can see you really thought it out. lol.
Feb 29th, 2016 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#22: Pretty desperate aren't you? Typical Hispanic mindset - “we want it and we will stamp our feet and do anything other than follow international law to do so”
Mar 01st, 2016 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 01/ The concrete blocks are in British waters. Get over it. Even Margallo won't go to the ITLOS over it (see post #1)
2/ Express lane for Spanish workers? And what happens with the outbound queue from Gibraltar? They're stuck with everyone else. Epic fail
3/ Charges: That's down to the EU and if you impose controls at Gibraltar that are not on the entire EU, you inherently recognise our legal status. If you impose them on the UK then the entire EU will shoot you down.
Of course it will impact our economy IF it happens - but will it make us want to join Spain? Will it further your “cause”?
Not a chance. It does nothing other than to show the world what a vindictive, petty, small-minded nation Spain is. Just like Argentina.
25 - I can tell youre angry, and I understand. However, its not MY plan, Im merely relaying to you what is described in the papers, and what is likely to happen - in the event of brexit -.
Mar 01st, 2016 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: #3 Gibraltar wont be in the eu at that stage hypothetically.
Dont be mistaken, if GB leaves the EU Spain will use the border to impose its policies and take money from Gibraltar. And frankly it will be well deserved.
Gib refuses to acknowledge its history as a stolen property, the chance was even given to share sovereignty and rejected. You went all in and now youre quite rightly shitting yourself. Fabian is ringing the warning bells (between pies) because he knows ... Spain will be merciless.
You will lift the blocks. You will do exactly as Spain chooses when it comes to the border.
Angry? Why would I be angry? You misunderstand - I'm laughing at you.
Mar 01st, 2016 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am aware that Gib will be outside the EU if the UK leaves, by the way. Meaning this will be an external EU border and the EU will set rules about external borders. Spain can play with them but if it thinks it can set tariffs against the UK, it will be mistaken.
It can create whatever delays it likes but its actions will really be utterly irrelevant. The forces that will affect the Gibraltar economy in the case of a Brexit are actually nothing at all to do with Spain, and everything to do with being inside or outside the EU.
“Gib refuses to acknowledge its history as a stolen property,”
It's not a stolen property, fool. It was given away in perpetuity by Spain. And that's how it will stay. Spain has NO SAY in our future whatsoever.
“You will lift the blocks. You will do exactly as Spain chooses when it comes to the border.”
Watch and cry, Vestige. None of this will happen.
If Spain wants to do things, it has to go to court. But it won't because it has no case. Margallo already said that.
Still - back to your hollow threats. Its all you Hispanos have, isn't it? 19th Century gubboat diplomacy and imperialism. Utterly, utterly pathetic.
@ 26 Vestige wrote: “Gib refuses to acknowledge its history as a stolen property”
Mar 01st, 2016 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stolen property, in what way stolen property?
Name any territory in continental
Europe, Asia, Africa, Americas
which has not been acquired by force.
- - - -
1713.07.13. Treaty of Utrecht. Article X.
The Catholic King does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield by this treaty to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts which belongs to it; and he gives up the said propriety absolutely to be held and enjoyed with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever.
- - - -
Tratado de Utrecht. Artículo X.
“El Rey Católico, por sí y por sus herederos y sucesores, cede por este Tratado a la Corona de la Gran Bretaña la plena y entera propiedad de la ciudad y castillo de Gibraltar, juntamente con su puerto, defensas y fortalezas que le pertenecen, dando la dicha propiedad absolutamente para que la tenga y goce con entero derecho y para siempre, sin excepción ni impedimento alguno.”
Stolen, mugged, taken under coercion, ... I'll leave the technicalities to you.
Mar 01st, 2016 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps happily gifted like the koh I noor. A happy accord, like a phone merrily exchanged to a street thug. That's an agreement too you see.
I don't make any threats, I merely point out the highly probable outcome of GB leaving the EU.
Have. a. google. around. if. you. don't. believe. me.
If you believe Spain has no say in Gibs future upon GB brexiting you're sadly mistaken. There'll be many 'treaties” to follow brexit..
All of them arriving from Madrid, all with the nod from team EU, none of them near worthy of a GB - EU trade war.
The pieman knows what on the way, which is why he's running .... I mean telephoning ... around desperately looking for an out.
Check the house market in a few months. Bet he's only selling because he needs the money to fund the local hospitals unpublished secret planned upgrade ..or something.
If you believe king David,
Mar 01st, 2016 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar will be annex by Spain on June 24th,
the sky will fill with fire balls,
and the sea monsters will eat up Britain.
believe or not believe,
we all have a vote.
@ 29 vestige wrote: “Stolen, mugged, taken under coercion,”
Mar 01st, 2016 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ah! just like Chaco, Formosa, Misiones, Patagonia, Argentina, Virreinato del Río de la Plata, Spanish America.
31 -Yep.
Mar 01st, 2016 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0... and you can tell recite all of Spains history to the toll booth. Wont matter.
Vote ukip.
Spain can close the border if the UK leaves the EU. But that won't be what damages the economy.
Mar 02nd, 2016 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0What will damage the economy is the fact of being outside the EU which makes the Finance Centre less attractive and makes life much more difficult for the Gaming Industry here. No-one is denying that a closed border would damage our economy: I said so right at the top of these comments - see #6.
It would also damage that of the local area in Spain, where there would be 10k more unemployed and the economic input from Gib - estimated at > 400m p/a - would be lost.
But, frankly, the one thing the government of Spain has shown is that it doesn't care about its own people, so a border closure would not be a surprise.
Would it achieve anything in terms of Spain's 'goals'? No.
Would it get the concrete blocks lifted? No.
Would it get Spain any closer to gaining possession of Gibraltar? No.
Would it show Spain as the small-minded, 19th century imperialist peoples that they are? Yes.
In the long run, it would probably cost Spain a great deal.
I'd doubt any full closure, that's too simplistic and short term. It will probably just be taxed at a low rate initially.
Mar 02nd, 2016 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spanish workers will travel free both directions as they constitute the greater part of Gibs labor force. Any attempt to leverage them is an attack on your own businesses. Piss them off and you will get full closures.
It will be low key to start. Later when the Algeciras economy is back to health is when Spain will truly implement policy via the Gib pocket. You'll do as told or it will cost you heavily. That simple.
One of the EUs top economies. Well over $1 trillion gdp. Huge influence in Brussels. Your only land link. Your closest export market. Your first source of labor and tourism.
And you turned down the diamond opportunity to share sovereignty, while living on land taken by force. Lolol.
You thought time would never catch up with you. How stupid.
Imagine a German community on the tip of Cornwall, protected by a treaty and various circumstance throughout the years. Really think that one out. What do you think might happen when they finally ran out of luck.
Mind you, if we came out, and had more money for defence,
Mar 02nd, 2016 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar may well see more military assets.
Sounds expensive.
Mar 02nd, 2016 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reposition an economy of 30000 and redirect taxpayers money. Contract and build new assets for a non profitable venture. Agree all this in parliament.
5 years minimum.
GB might tell you to just move the blocks.
Border price could sky rocket in the meantime. Difficult for the local Brits who live on the wrong side. And tourists. And goods.
Paradise not exactly lost, just ruined.
#26
Mar 02nd, 2016 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gib refuses to acknowledge its history as a stolen property.
Explain. Spain signed the Treaty of Utrecht ceding Gibraltar and Minorca....how can this be regarded as stolen?
Difficult for the local Brits who live on the wrong side. And tourists. And goods.
Mar 02nd, 2016 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And how many Spanish live in the uk,
and the tourists and goods,
will Spain cut of its nose to spites its face.
I think not,
According to king David the world will collapse if we pull out,
yet if you look at the states of the world,
perhaps not a bad thing..
37 - by modern standards it is. Thats why coercion voids contracts these days. But very well call it what you will.
Mar 02nd, 2016 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 038 - Youre talking trade war with the EU. Thats plausible if there was a massacre or naval warfare, or some huge event.
However, I dont think the gibbites being charged a punitive border tax with cut it. Oh there'll be sandwich boards alright, but Spain wont do anything that could hit any of the front 3 pages, of that you can be sure.
Softly softly catchey monkey.
You propose taxing those crossing the border who are not Spanish workers: I’ll explain why that won’t happen in a way even you can understand – basically, they already tried it.
Mar 03rd, 2016 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Taxation in Gib is around 23%: in Spain it is 40%. If one works in Gib and lives in Spain, you have to fill in a ‘renta’ in Spain declaring earnings and tax paid; and you then pay the rest of “what you would have paid in Spain” to the Hacienda. Most of the Spanish cross-border workers don’t do that and avoid Spanish taxes due, and they know that the Spanish Govt won’t ask Gib for a list because that means recognizing Gibraltar.
So, Spain tried to introduce a ‘fast pass’ to avoid queues on their side. But everyone knew this told Hacienda that you worked in Gibraltar. Out of the 10,000 workers, only 70 took it up. So your plan won’t work.
In any case,
“ when the Algeciras economy is back to health is when Spain will truly implement policy via the Gib pocket”
In other words – it will never happen. With an unemployment rate of 34% - which will rise if you remove employment from Gibraltar – you’re dreaming if you think this would happen.
“And you turned down the diamond opportunity to share sovereignty, while living on land taken by force”
Share sovereignty with thieves and liars? That’s the ideal way to ruin Gibraltar.
Incidentally – most of Spain was taken by force. Ask the Catalans and Basques.
“Softly softly catchey monkey.”
Nope. First: Spain doesn’t do softly-softly – they’re far too stupid for that. Second: it’s our decision alone. And it won’t happen. All that will happen is the same as the Franco border closures, and Margallo’s recent actions, have achieved – they ensure that future generations know what an untrustworthy and malevolent ‘neighbour’ Spain really is.
We’re happy to sit here and watch it fall apart bit by bit.
Incidentally, when Spain has broken up into its constituent parts, which one inherits the “claim” to Gibraltar? Castile?
Well that's an interesting counter, however its intrinsically flawed.
Mar 03rd, 2016 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly any tax issues for the workers are entirely in Spain's hands. So you're relying on Spains choices.
Secondly you rely on Spain having a perpetual high unemployment rate - resisting the urge to mock - we both know that's not realistic.
If you're relying on Spain breaking up I think you'll be out of luck too.
You know you could in theory make it through the brexit with a bit of luck, like you made it through Franco and other historic quirks.
But even if you did you'll still be at the mercy of probability in the realm of international politics, holding back the inevitable until the next shift and the next. One day the right numbers will come up.
Vote ukip.
“Firstly any tax issues for the workers are entirely in Spain's hands. So you're relying on Spains choices.”
Mar 03rd, 2016 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- But we can guarantee that Spain won't ask Gibraltar “who is working there”, so it will never know unless the worker says so in his Renta. Therefore my point is still valid and your idea of a 'free lane' won't work.
“Secondly you rely on Spain having a perpetual high unemployment rate - resisting the urge to mock - we both know that's not realistic. ”
- In this area, it is. Though personally I don't think as high as the 40% listed as so many people work on the black market. But there's no sign of the unemployment coming down and it remains high for the foreseeable future.
“If you're relying on Spain breaking up I think you'll be out of luck too.”
I'm not relying on it, merely commenting that it will happen before Spain gets any nearer to its designs on Gibraltar. Certainly in the case of Catalunya, it will be very soon.
“You know you could in theory make it through the brexit with a bit of luck, like you made it through Franco and other historic quirks.
But even if you did you'll still be at the mercy of probability in the realm of international politics, holding back the inevitable until the next shift and the next. One day the right numbers will come up. ”
Nope. If the UK leaves then our economy will take a very big hit - I reckon 25% of GDP down. But that won't have any effect whatsoever on Gibraltar's status as British.
A border closure simply ensures that another generation realise that their parents were right, and that Spain simply can't be trusted on anything.
It won't really matter what impression those behind the thin wire fence have of Spain. Spain has no intention to woo Gibraltar, that's laughable.
Mar 03rd, 2016 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You guarantee that Spain won't do x y and z. Yet on the basis on local tax laws alone. Spain could pass a waiver tomorrow, a minor change would suffice. Where there's a will, and no EU protection, there's a way. Ask picardo.
As for the employment - whats currently happening in Spain is within the context of a global recession, and resultant of unforeseen levels of outsourcing and tech developments. The world can't foresee such booms and busts. Malaga is a good example of just the opposite.
The world, the US and the EU are gradually recovering, what makes you think Algeciras won't too.
You're on the wrong side of chance.
#43
Mar 03rd, 2016 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what makes you think Algeciras won't too.
Because it's in Spain. Simples.
Trade war,,,
Mar 03rd, 2016 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0not so, Europe will make the first move,
and I predict it will all go smoothly,
on the other hand,
Spain could ??
but that would be her decision,
as Mr Holland stated, their will be consequences, lol
“Yet on the basis on local tax laws alone. Spain could pass a waiver tomorrow, a minor change would suffice. ”
Mar 04th, 2016 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0They can do what they like, but I'm saying it won't work. It won't make the x-border workers register because they will be liable for so much more tax in Spain that it will cost them too much. And it wouldn't speed up exit from Gibraltar. Your idea is a nonsense.
“As for the employment - whats currently happening in Spain is within the context of a global recession... The world, the US and the EU are gradually recovering, what makes you think Algeciras won't too. ”
1/ It is in Spain and 2/ it is a dump. Known as “the arsehole of Spain”.
You can keep dreaming. Nothing will change the fact that Gib will remain British, even if our economy takes a nosedive. It really wont.
Ill happily humor your ridiculing of that 1 idea. Let it be seen as completely inapplicable for arguments sake.
Mar 04th, 2016 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Doesn't matter.
Gibs entire economy is to a huge extent reliant on Spain...take away EU protection and a way will be found.
As for talking dow Spain, what more could be expected, truth hurts and so name calling starts.
Spains totally broke, doesnt have a trillion euro economy, Algeciras could never host any industry or become the next costa. Such things never happen.
Things will stay exactly how they are, brexit will change nothing, a multitude of journalists say its no biggy, fabian says its no problem, isnt looking into joining schengen...because Spain could never leverage the border... and is hosting zumba classes as we speak.
You really are in a world of your own, aren't you? You're pretty special. I mean:
Mar 04th, 2016 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 01/ I've shown entirely that your “express card” for x-border workers will fail - because it is already in place, and taken up by 70 out of 10,000. But you ignore that. So you move on to:
“Gibs entire economy is to a huge extent reliant on Spain”
In that it is highly productive and produces more jobs than it has residents - yes. So we rely on Spain to house people and return the favour by providing employment and money. Still:
“...take away EU protection and a way will be found.”
To close the border? Pretty sure they will. Margallo the obsessive said so today, even though he's out of a job now.
“As for talking dow Spain, what more could be expected, truth hurts and so name calling starts.”
Good grief. Have you seen the figures for Algeciras?
37% unemployment. 56% for those under 30. Those who are left, that is. The bright, young, enterprising ones have gone to the UK or Germany. And the first part of your plan is to raise those figures by closing the border. Add another 10k to the figures. Some economic genius you are.
“Spains totally broke, doesnt have a trillion euro economy, ”
The UKs is nearer 3 trillion, so is France's. With 40% more people. Shows how utterly shit Spain is. Doesn't it?
“Algeciras could never host any industry or become the next costa. ”
Have you been there? Become the next costa? Seriously? It's hideous.
As to the rest of your nonsense - I never said it wouldn't be difficult for Gibraltar. See post #6. But
at the end of it
would that bring you any nearer to seeing a “Gibraltar Espanyol”?
Would it?
Even if we were eating rats, we'd never sign up to your shithole of a nation. Never. We'd never force that on our children: they'd curse us forever.
Face up to the truth. We'd rather be North Korean
48 - I have to clear up one particular error that seems to dog British colonists near and far on here.
Mar 05th, 2016 - 03:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0That is the misunderstanding that your thoughts and preferences ever matter to whichever peoples nation you have taken up residence in.
They dont. Nobody cares how much more entrenched you become.
Practicalities of power are the only things which count. Nobody will try to woo you to compliance. I promise. Such thoughts are hilariously conceited.
It wouldnt matter if my own personal abstract version of whats likely to go down in Algeciras post brexit is impractical in some way, what matters is the cage will be unlocked upon such a vote.
Whether the tiger eats you from the left, right, or leaps down on you from above is just speculation.
Closures, goods tax, travel restrictions, tolls, who knows - Im sure Spain will be creative.
(Maybe even with its airspace too)
The only certainty is that Spain will indeed leverage the border and Gibs electorate will learn over time to comply or feel the pain.
Practicalities aside, let me address the name calling and general 'pissing contest' comments put forth. These wont help you after the referendum.
What you should do now is learn to think about Gib status and history from a neutral point of view. Perhaps think in terms of a German colony in cornwall that made it through history by bizarre chance.
Also begin a preparedness plan and perhaps think of ways to liquidate and transfer your assets.
If brexit happens youll be vety quickly living in a very uncertain place at a very uncertain time.
Buyers dont like that.
Although actually in this case a Spanish semi state owned real estate investor might love that.
Good luck in June.
Btw - will you be voting for or against brexit ?
I think i can guess.... lololol.
Spain would raise Gibraltar ‘the day after Brexit’ – Margallo
Mar 05th, 2016 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://chronicle.gi/2016/03/spain-would-raise-gibraltar-the-day-after-brexit-margallo/
Spain would seek talks on Gibraltar “the very next day” after a British withdrawal from the European Union, the country’s caretaker Foreign Minister, José Manuel García-Margallo, said yesterday
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Perhaps Gibraltar should seek even closer ties with the UK and become part of Britain, and send MPs to Westminster,
One thinks that Spain may well find the border being closed again,
Spain thinks she will become the privileged state in a new united states of Europe, the brain washing is already taking place,
I think Gibraltar being part of the UK will protect her future,
A united states of Europe, with Britain stuck in, will make Gibraltar more European not British,
All im saying is, the world is changing, the old greedy dictatorships and unified states are already rearing their ugly heads,
I would rather be part of the UK now, and securing my future,
Rather than relying on corrupt [remain] politicians that will see us both part of a European dictatorship,
Just my opinion.
.
Sceptic cant talk right now, he's in a bank queue.
Mar 05th, 2016 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Right behind a chubby man wearing a hat and sunglasses. Lololol.
#51
Mar 05th, 2016 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I presume in a spirit of magnanimity Spain will return the stolen exclaves of Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco. Of course they will not, being total hypocrites when people question THEIR right to claim this as part of Spain.
52 - Spain will graciously return Ceuta when GB returns Ulster.
Mar 05th, 2016 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#53
Mar 06th, 2016 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To whom ?
GB returns Ulster
Mar 06th, 2016 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ulster wants to be British,
one does presume you believe in democracy and freedom to vote.?
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